[15:57:32] <Overmind> http://pastebin.com/X71iuc5x
[15:57:39] <Overmind> Something recent that you should've seen
[15:59:04] <crystalshine> Seen that.
[15:59:58] <crystalshine> It's really nice how it fits in my headcanon magic theory that was even presented on convention panel.
[16:00:00] <Overmind> At moment's notice I scarcely remember, but I think 5 modulating components were mentioned there, but not in details
[16:01:52] <Overmind> I can't formulate thought properly right now, but 1 thing to remember and *really* remember for any lore writing in these cases (and something that was reiterated and implied by Ashen Logic) is that your 'internal energy' is only a catalyst
[16:01:56] <crystalshine> Yeah. The biggest urf mage in show lore is probably Pinkie. She subconsciously mastered Divination magic and some other schools.
[16:02:00] <Overmind> in majority of cases
[16:02:31] <Overmind> trasmutational school, enchantment school, mid-tier evocation school (all distance, non-missile spells)
[16:03:44] <Overmind> Simple 'expulsion' of energy is draining on the body and takes a toll/time to regen (locked at FP, but in theory how it was said - it might take longer than 'FP')
[16:03:53] <crystalshine> Pega can also into magical inertion compensation and can change their mass to certain degree.
[16:04:13] <Overmind> That's why most spells use 'internal energy' to trigger chain reaction around from *environmental* energy
[16:04:16] <crystalshine> Overmind: So, pone just channel the magic around them?
[16:04:21] <Overmind> And that's also how anti magic field works
[16:04:42] <Overmind> Pone channels own magic around to trigger chain reactions in environment's energy
[16:05:14] <Overmind> anti magic field or low magical environments (as described by slss) = lower or non or suppressed *environmental* energy
[16:05:22] <crystalshine> That's how I imagined it. They use their will to manipulate magic, which is the reason of stress, not depleting some mana storage in them.
[16:05:40] <Overmind> user is like a jar
[16:05:48] <Overmind> that is constantly being refilled
[16:06:04] <Overmind> but bodily stress is something else
[16:06:41] <Overmind> It also goes further down when you connect it with arcane alchemy's description (which made most serious additions to 'spellcasting')
[16:07:22] <crystalshine> That's almost exactly how magic works in my headcanon, so my ideas should be compatible.
[16:08:07] <Overmind> an arcane pot is a structure that is not easily affected by environmental/residual energy while also trapping a large quantity of energy during enchantment process
[16:09:18] <Overmind> Magical beings (like equines) have a natural magical resistance which 'breaks the seal' among with potion's digestion.
[16:09:20] <crystalshine> Also, quantum theory and more advanced theories of magic will help to explain phenomena that seems to be breaking some concepts. Discord, magic of virtues (elements of harmony, friendship, love)
[16:10:08] <Overmind> Breaking the seal injects large magical potential into user's inner reserves which acts as a fuel for 'spell' structure encapsulated in the pot
[16:12:04] <crystalshine> OK, one concept I've been using in another RP and might want to have here: Spell paterns written in crystalic structures. Basically something like magic wand, but less primitive. Make crystal with spell pattern, feed it with magic, it sends spell the way it is programmed.
[16:12:54] <crystalshine> *casts
[16:13:05] <Overmind> It's essentially like a pot, only in crystalline structure. The crystal is an artificial channeling focus
[16:13:12] <Overmind> It works
[16:13:27] <Overmind> Similar to other enchanted objects
[16:13:57] <Overmind> Enchanted objects by previous defitions also work on environmental energy
[16:13:59] <Overmind> OH
[16:14:02] <Overmind> Correct
[16:14:12] <Overmind> It came from Lucyne's condition
[16:14:13] <crystalshine> yeah, I've taken crystals because you can affect their crystallic structure which is then permanent.
[16:15:23] <crystalshine> How do another enchanted objects hold their spell?
[16:18:36] <crystalshine> I can imagine more concepts of enchantment: Self sustaining spell, which can be dispelled (take it to low magic environment and it will maybe try to drain magic from pony reserve and eventually disappear, unable to sustain its spell pattern…
[16:19:57] <crystalshine> Magic pattern written to something permanent: holds the spell when it has magic around it as a fuel, impossible to dispel if you don't break the source of spell, but still doesn't work in low magic env.
[16:24:00] <Overmind> Enchanted objects are essentially composed out of 2 things
[16:24:52] <Overmind> an artificial 'jar' like with living creatures and a spell framework grafted to it on energy level
[16:25:25] <crystalshine> Doesn't feel much stable…
[16:25:26] <Overmind> the jar emulates ability to maintain internal energy
[16:26:24] <Overmind> (which is also what creates the passive magical resistance similar to living creature, only this time around concentrated on something tiny)
[16:26:47] <Overmind> what powers enchantment however is also - environmental energy
[16:26:56] <Overmind> that gets drained out of environment
[16:27:18] <Overmind> 'disjunction' spell which destabilizes and destroys enchantments targets 'jar'
[16:27:31] <Overmind> (which theoretically, how me and Lucyne joked around)
[16:27:51] <Overmind> (disjunction can theoretically be jury rigged to affect creatures)
[16:28:12] <Overmind> (equins specifically, given that they are magical creatures)
[16:28:46] <crystalshine> I always imagined the spell framework being grafted to something unchanging… Or, if it's on "energy level", using part of env energy to sustain its own framework, "cast itself" and the rest for desired effect.
[16:28:58] <Overmind> (a disjunction on enchantments takes around 10 minutes if not more iirc, part of meta college, but on a living creature it would either take longer or you'd have to inject/use more energy)
[16:29:37] <Overmind> I was mainly talking about passive enchantments, like a protection medallion
[16:30:07] <crystalshine> >Disjunction of Pega. Pega can't fly…
[16:30:11] <crystalshine> That's evil.
[16:30:16] <Overmind> Not only that
[16:30:20] <Overmind> Disjunction is permanent
[16:30:37] <Overmind> You literally destroy creature's magical potential
[16:30:52] <Overmind> Not only pega's won't be able to fly, but 'extra fast' healing would seize to exist
[16:31:17] <crystalshine> It's the nature of being. Are you sure said being wouldn't just "heal" from that?
[16:31:18] <Overmind> It's something similar to what happened with Tirek, I wager (even though we discussed it way earlier before that episode aired)
[16:31:42] <Overmind> No no, ponies would 'heal' but at much much much slower rate
[16:31:53] <Overmind> Current equin regen factor is rediculous
[16:31:57] <crystalshine> I mean heal from disjunction.
[16:32:54] <crystalshine> >sirens in EQG were dijcunted and sent to earth. They jury rigged supplement in form of crystal pendants
[16:32:56] <crystalshine> wow.
[16:33:10] <Overmind> Ah, nope.... similar to what Tirek was doing there. When you 'disjunct' an enchanted/magical 'object' you literally destroy it's ability
[16:33:20] <Overmind> it's easier to imagine it with enchanted items
[16:33:28] <Overmind> because they just become normal
[16:33:45] <Overmind> but then we started to discuss 'what ifs'
[16:33:51] <crystalshine> It should be really hard, because you have to destroy some body functions on biological level.
[16:34:43] <crystalshine> Basically changing the structure of body and DNA to be unable to hold magic potential and manipulate it.
[16:35:07] <Overmind> We came to conclusion that disjunction of an equin would either kill it (destruction of magical system on such a level which fucks it up on biological), or would just destroy the magical potential completely (with all repercussions)
[16:35:37] <Overmind> It's technically worse, because you 'destroy' that 'jar' for internal potential
[16:35:49] <crystalshine> I would really take it other way around. Magical potential is encoded in DNA, so you can change the way being works.
[16:35:54] <Overmind> That's why our first thought was that someone would be killed horribly
[16:35:58] <crystalshine> Or your disjunction isn't permanent.
[16:36:13] <Overmind> >encoded in DNA
[16:36:34] <crystalshine> You can disjunt someone for short time, but his organism heals from it.
[16:36:37] <Overmind> Eh, we were going by another system
[16:36:55] <Overmind> Because there's another question - what is 'soul'
[16:37:11] <crystalshine> Eh…
[16:37:31] <Overmind> because in this world and over encounters 'souls' as static magical constructs exist
[16:37:41] <crystalshine> Wow… I have a nice thingie from SR that would work really, really nice with this!
[16:38:15] <Overmind> We were going by definition that biological structure, while it 'grows' also structurizes magical energy in a specific way
[16:38:46] <crystalshine> You have two planes of existence. Astral and material. Which exist on the same place at the same time and affect each other through magic. Your soul is visible in astral plane clearly. You can even disjunt it from body.
[16:39:20] <crystalshine> All magic is in astral plane. When you cast, you are channeling astral energy through your body (and your body works like a jar for it)
[16:40:23] <crystalshine> in SR, when you mechanize your body with implants, your soul loses connection with astral plane (when you overdo it, you lose connection with your soul permanently and die)
[16:40:32] <Overmind> Eh... iirc insted of dabbling with planes, we simply formulated several options, one of which was that energy still exists on that one plane (that's the reason why characters could observe and interact with shades and incorporeal beings)
[16:40:48] <crystalshine> and more implants you have, the less magic you can channel.
[16:40:59] <crystalshine> soul being disconnected from astral…
[16:41:16] <Overmind> So a 'soul' in that proposed option was just a persistent magical structure that 'developed' (like a body part) together with organism
[16:41:19] <crystalshine> Overmind: Sure, but it's basically the same thing.
[16:41:33] <crystalshine> Overmind: You just make those planes to overlap more.
[16:42:25] <crystalshine> Overmind: Which basically happens in Shadowrun, which begun in world almost disconnected from astral and begun to overlap, astral plane being more real then before.
[16:42:35] <Overmind> Yes, but it includes >planes (not my *personal* favorite option.... because of it's overuse in recent years :/)
[16:43:07] <crystalshine> Overmind: Sure, you don't have to use the same concept… You can call it leylines.
[16:43:25] <crystalshine> And have it in material world… But the basic ideas are the same.
[16:43:32] <crystalshine> or, can have same mechanics.
[16:43:35] * Overmind is just not a fan of 'interplanar bindings' between structures (which in theory is subverted by 'Gate' college)
[16:43:49] <crystalshine> And from what I see from you, it already has.
[16:43:50] <Overmind> Well yeah
[16:43:53] <Overmind> It's the same idea
[16:44:13] <Overmind> Only one uses planes, and the other uses same dimension (and laws of physics of this world)
[16:44:46] <crystalshine> So, your soul can or cannot affect the leylines. Making it something semi magic, because some souls can't/.
[16:45:09] <crystalshine> Disjunction in your theory means destroying part of your soul.
[16:45:09] <Overmind> ... or soul is... hm... lets call it 'Aether'
[16:45:45] <Overmind> If environmental energy is 'Mana'/'Ley', then 'soul' is 'Aether' or 'crystallized magical energy with persistent structure'
[16:46:13] <crystalshine> Also, that means that humans were magical beings as much as ponies in past, but magic from our worlds disappeared. Because we don't have pony souls and we can do magic.
[16:46:53] <Overmind> Heh.... or our plane/world lacks leylines/ley/mana on physical level, heeeh
[16:46:56] <Overmind> Thooooough
[16:46:57] <Overmind> huh
[16:47:03] <Overmind> actually, you have a good point
[16:47:09] <Overmind> A very good one
[16:47:32] <Overmind> because then how exactly did everyone 'disappeared'/'consciousness got copied'/whatever ?
[16:48:00] <crystalshine> Overmind: And here we are. Can I present you my theory connected sadly with EQG?
[16:48:01] <Overmind> + planeswalking
[16:48:14] <Overmind> The mirror gates?
[16:48:23] <crystalshine> kinda, but not really
[16:48:38] <Overmind> (it's not only EQG at this point..... it's also comics, heeh). Go ahead1
[16:48:48] <crystalshine> we know about three worlds, dimensions if you want.
[16:49:05] <crystalshine> One is magical Equestria.
[16:49:15] <crystalshine> One is EQG, which almost lacks magic.
[16:49:26] <crystalshine> One is our Earth.
[16:50:42] <crystalshine> EQG is somewhere in the middle of our world and equestria. Inhabitants share some aspects of Equestrians (colours, names) and magic can be brought there quite easily, which means the leylines are still there to certain degree.
[16:51:18] <Overmind> >inb4 string theory
[16:51:37] <crystalshine> I still have to incorporate it, but it will be done.
[16:51:51] <crystalshine> Cannonites got here when the first EQG was released… Or, really close to it.
[16:52:14] <Overmind> Ack, that was also autismed about.... but my head's too unsteady to think about that at the moment.
[16:52:34] <Overmind> the 'how string theory pieces into it' that is
[16:52:34] <crystalshine> There was quite big magical outbust from EOH in the middle plane.
[16:52:49] <crystalshine> Why are pone known in our world?
[16:52:57] <crystalshine> In stories, I mean.
[16:53:10] <Overmind> (there's a fun part actually about stories)
[16:54:01] <Overmind> In Equestria every story/book (I'd assume magical tomes even more) are considered as 'windows' to other planes/representations of those worlds
[16:54:06] * Overmind blames comics
[16:54:27] <crystalshine> Certain more magical sensing people can be affected by Equestria, particulary Lauren, which thought ponies are fantasy, while she saw into that "window"
[16:56:02] <crystalshine> Cannonites were brought to equestria by something like backfire from EOH used in EQG, which weakened barriers between our worlds and sucked us to Equestria in process.
[16:58:12] <crystalshine> Reason why only us, ponyfags? Our soul with bigger magical potential than most of people allowed us to "know" it's real and we subconsciously helped to open "gates" between our worlds.
[16:58:43] <crystalshine> That's what Crystal believes happened.
[17:00:00] <crystalshine> Well, still unconvinced that I can make theories and make them work with lore?
[17:01:12] <Overmind> That's one of the options. Tome's theories varied over time as more discoveries were made... but core lore was made ambiguous and undefinied specifially due to 'many OOC theories' There are lots of things that were proposed... Some of them that come to mind:
[17:01:51] <Overmind> - Portalling with transformation (EQG actually 'screwed' this up a little, making ponification something 'simple')
[17:02:19] <crystalshine> Overmind: I think I will be able to explain the TF…
[17:02:35] <Overmind> (Though by EQG's lore makes it work..)
[17:02:58] <Overmind> - Portalling with materialization (A more 'brutal' version of EQG)
[17:04:09] <Overmind> - Mind+/-soul 'copying' with materialization (another way to do it... and would explain why some people haven't heard/noticed mass disappearances)
[17:05:23] <crystalshine> So we are still there?
[17:05:31] <Overmind> - Any of those options, but with 'gradual/delayed' materialization (which also gives threads for explaining why earliest 'arrivals' were atrociously and *dangerously* bad with their bodies)
[17:06:05] <crystalshine> I know why Crystal wasn't :3
[17:06:25] <Overmind> no no...
[17:06:32] <Overmind> ... there's a bit of lore about it
[17:06:44] <crystalshine> do tell please
[17:06:52] <Overmind> and no, it's not because 'Crystal knows lel magic'
[17:07:02] <Overmind> Most people who arrived *had* concept of magic
[17:07:10] <crystalshine> … Do you really think I would go with that?
[17:07:22] <crystalshine> That's really, really offending.
[17:07:33] <Overmind> No no, I'm bridging it to another point, hold on
[17:08:57] <crystalshine> Good, because I'm trying to make my transfer as real as it can be, without bullshit like "oh, I have those perks, I suddenly know it!" And your post really hurt.
[17:08:58] <Overmind> All new arrivals, over period of time, were becoming increasingly stable (lel all those system chances... from kek, to several revisions and tweaks to SSS, to ESSS, to 4S, to SLSS and SASS)
[17:09:44] <Overmind> Failing at magic during 1-2 months was catastrophic
[17:09:55] <Overmind> Crit failing was a ticked to hell
[17:10:01] <crystalshine> Nobody to teach you.
[17:10:38] <crystalshine> Having supervision kinda helps, but I see your point.
[17:11:01] <Overmind> You know what was TK's success rate during 1st month?
[17:11:34] <Overmind> First rates were: Light DC 15, MM DC 15-17, TK DC 19-20
[17:11:43] <crystalshine> I'm there 2 months and I can't TK.
[17:11:56] <crystalshine> So I can imagine it being fucking hard in one months.
[17:11:59] <crystalshine> month
[17:12:01] <Overmind> Yes, but early arrivals were somehow able to do it
[17:12:11] <Overmind> But by doing so
[17:12:41] <Overmind> They were causing heavy injuries most of the time, not only that, but there is also a little bit of lorethat I'm not sure you've heard about
[17:12:44] <crystalshine> I've been thinking about rushing it with possible consequencies, like damage to my body.
[17:13:04] <Overmind> (which got grandfathered by fucking Rain and Lucyne and was expanded upon later)
[17:13:14] <crystalshine> Something that happens to unexperienced runner trying to run marathone.
[17:13:28] <Overmind> You know that horns leak a residue, right?
[17:13:56] <Overmind> There's an entire horn hygine and horn/magic fatigue bit
[17:14:11] <crystalshine> Residue consisting of what exactly?
[17:14:24] <Overmind> "hornjobs" are a real bloody thing
[17:15:03] <crystalshine> Wait, as in… Real blood leaking from horn? You kidding, right?
[17:15:13] <Overmind> No. It's not blood though.
[17:15:36] <crystalshine> So, what is that residue and how is that explained.
[17:17:47] <Overmind> Essentially it goes like this: the more frequently you cast your magic, the more strained your horn tissue (tissue between nerves inside the horn) becomes. The horn's system, somehow, secretes and collects a residue inside your horn (which was proposed/brainstormed to be something similar to lymph or a residue that acts like a 'dampener' for tissue)
[17:18:21] <Overmind> This liquid accumulates over time and if it's not removed, it starts to increase internal skull pressure (or something)
[17:18:32] <Overmind> which quickly turns into heavy migraines
[17:19:00] <Overmind> This especially affects horses that only begin their magic training and subsides over time
[17:19:10] <Overmind> (at least that's how progression went!?)
[17:19:35] <Overmind> During first 1-2 months, the 'cycle' period was around 2 weeks or so
[17:20:42] <Overmind> The residue itself looks like a muddy, unclear liquid, fizzy in consistency and tends to sparkle upon removal, but 'sparkling' fades out minutes later
[17:20:56] * Overmind is not bullshitting this
[17:22:39] * Overmind according this Rain/Lucyne's (more Rain's) 'grandfathered' lore bit even RP'd Tome having zero idea about this which turned his life into hell, especially during TrollQuest when he couldn't cast things from sharp migraine
[17:23:29] <crystalshine> Oh, and nobody actually works with that recently… Even Star didn't tell me about it and he's my teacher…
[17:26:07] <crystalshine> OK, if we take magic as force. Can we use it as another basic particle, something like photon, with duality particle/wave, that is naturally emmited by some natural source and form leylines in world?
[17:26:15] <Overmind> Well it's been used for...... I think it was used before Star even appeared in 4C... through summer - autumn - to winter. But then most old time unicorns reached 'spellmastery' which coincided with 'your tissue fatigue developed well enough that it produces smaller quantities of it which naturally gets absorbed into circulation system without collecting'
[17:26:41] <Overmind> And because most new arrivals at that point had all EXP points needed to jump straight away to spell mastery
[17:27:10] <Overmind> No one really RP'd it much afterwards/weren't informed about it
[17:28:17] * Overmind points out that Star iirc was flinging fireballs 1 week after arrival into 4C or smth as a new arrival
[17:28:57] <Overmind> .... so... every player has a different set of memories, so to say :/
[17:29:05] <crystalshine> Well, OK… We can explain by your theory about later arrivals that our body is more ready for magic, right? Because at this point, nobody RP's it not because they don't want, but because they don't know about it.
[17:29:57] * Overmind shrugs
[17:30:29] <Overmind> ... oh right. Horns are also sensitive, so I don't recommend stabbing things with it
[17:31:10] <Overmind> (but again, >different sets of memories. I remember GM stating that it was 'painful', another time nothing. Consistency/10)
[17:31:15] <crystalshine> Able, bringing it up into game right now will make more BS than forgetting about it and thinking a way to explain why it doesn't happen anymore. Sad but true. If I knew, I would do it.
[17:31:53] <Overmind> Well, by this line of RP, you'd definitely 'know' about it, because >migraine.
[17:32:00] <Overmind> This brings back to adaptation theory
[17:32:19] <Overmind> That early batches of arrivals were somehow incomplete/unstable
[17:32:32] <crystalshine> I RP horn as a sensitive part of body, less but enough to not stab someone with it normally, but much more when you recently casted/are casting something.
[17:33:03] <crystalshine> Overmind: 172906 crystalshine | Well, OK… We can explain by your theory about later arrivals that our body is more ready for magic, right?
[17:33:35] <crystalshine> I already said it.
[17:35:43] <crystalshine> So, magic particles, flowing through our world, magical beings acting as "gravity trap" for photons, letting those particles flow in their body, creating their own closed leyline circulation. Still good?
[17:36:09] <crystalshine> More like tokamak for magical particles…
[17:37:30] <crystalshine> It should be consistent with magic jar, but can be used for some deeper theories.
[17:37:53] <Overmind> (depends what 'ready' means, heeeh... What defines this instablitity and how to measure/explain it within whatever lore framework is taken, but yeah... that's details for a character that is essentially retired)
[17:39:51] <crystalshine> I think I will be able to bring some shit up. We can work with soul connection, collective memory, giving us subconsciously the idea how to transform better. Evolution using magic.
[17:43:00] <Overmind> ah... uh, meta information regarding trionionum is that it's roughly like a coil similar to environmental energy
[17:43:42] <Overmind> When a spell 'activates' a region of environmental energy
[17:44:18] <Overmind> it affects it at certain range and creates deficiencies/shifts
[17:44:47] <Overmind> T-D lights up when these 'shifts' are happening with a certain drag
[17:45:44] <crystalshine> Reacting to difference of magical potential between two points?
[17:45:49] <Overmind> Running alternating electricity into one coil next to another = certain current produced in another 'coil'
[17:46:03] <Overmind> More like general 'motion' within the field
[17:46:09] <Overmind> But yes
[17:46:13] <Overmind> Tehnially that
[17:46:34] <Overmind> To big enough shifts that is
[17:47:24] <crystalshine> I imagine pony casting - uses his interlal magic leylines, attracting magical particles to refill the losed energy in process. Still good?
[17:47:27] <Overmind> Passive amulet enchantments that sustain themselves by that enviro-jar balance, produces disturbance in close vicinity around object
[17:48:01] <crystalshine> So, magical particles aren't "flowing" but filling the space like gas?
[17:48:04] <Overmind> Here's where fundamentals make explanation easier
[17:49:24] <Overmind> 'Light' is pure energy transformation. Internal energy -> Horn -> Enviro energy *right* around Horn -> transmuting enviro energy and affecting laws of physics -> photons
[17:49:58] <Overmind> USing that old 1st month progression with DC, Light was *the* easiest spell (even though it still had DC 15)
[17:50:15] <Overmind> Meaning it's like the basis of basis.
[17:50:34] <Overmind> Next in line was 'Magic Missile' or direct discharge
[17:50:51] <crystalshine> Interference of energy, emitting light…
[17:51:31] <Overmind> It's like 'Light' only you transform around horn into something more volatile and overcharge, before 'discharging' it off yourself at X
[17:52:15] <Overmind> Third component was Telekinesis or 'field activation'
[17:52:30] <crystalshine> What are effects of missile on matter?
[17:52:40] <Overmind> That's the interesting part.
[17:52:57] <Overmind> RP wise, the effect was 'volatile'
[17:53:27] <Overmind> It could burn you, or struck with electricity, or make a physical slashing wound, or cause blunt kinetic damage
[17:53:53] <crystalshine> Depending on the type of discharge you are using…
[17:53:57] <Overmind> Some were in a 'lightning' like discharges, some were more 'ball' like
[17:54:15] <Overmind> That's the point though, no use was 'specifying' a type
[17:54:49] <Overmind> So it was assumed, over time, with all those accounts, that 'magic missile' is something of an unstable 'unrefined' energy
[17:55:00] <crystalshine> because he didn't know what he's doing. He just made shitload of something and sent it somewhere, hoping it will hurt enemy.
[17:55:04] <Overmind> which can take unpredictable shape
[17:56:21] <Overmind> So.... something like a carrier of unstable energy which takes one or another shape on its own - the basic of basics - user doesn't 'thinks' about 'how' energy should be shaped.
[17:56:34] <Overmind> Only 'collects' and 'discharges' without further manipulations
[17:57:11] <crystalshine> yeah, it's fast and you don't have to think about it. Just do something and hope that it will be effective.
[17:57:57] <Overmind> There's a little funny thing about it too... but that's after 'third' fundamental component - TK or 'field activation'.
[17:59:24] <Overmind> If light is basic transformation right around horn, discharge is immediate transformation and 'discharging', then TK is 'discharging' internal energy in a sustainable, non-interrupted fashion and 'activating' regions of environment's energy
[17:59:41] <Overmind> During TK you have 'light' component - both horn and object glow
[18:00:12] <Overmind> So it's sort of a 'wasteful' process (unless you can reduce the glow... or it's explained differently)
[18:01:44] <crystalshine> All mages told me that light is side effect of residual energy while you are channeling it to something.
[18:02:35] <Overmind> That works, yep. A 'waste' in conversion because something is constantly sustained? Constantly sustained discharge?
[18:02:48] <Overmind> Yep... channeling.
[18:02:57] <crystalshine> How does it work on physical level though? Do you affect movement of particles to prioritize some direction, basically making object to lift itself?
[18:03:14] <crystalshine> Or do you negate mass of object?
[18:03:25] <Overmind> You create a kinetic force
[18:03:47] <Overmind> So you reduce 'weight', but not 'mass'
[18:04:16] <Overmind> That's how it was RP'd by..... at least 6-7 unicorns in the game, I think? My memory's wobbly atm
[18:05:04] <Overmind> Kinetic force because in several instances, it was producing pulses/physical effects over surface
[18:05:20] <crystalshine> You can't create kinetic force out of nothing. What is that kinetic force? I'd like to think that you are indeed affecting particles in that object.
[18:05:39] <crystalshine> to move in certain direction, bringing some order to chaotic movement of particles.
[18:07:06] <crystalshine> Which would make base to much, really much harder spell, disintegration, letting particle go different ways and just ripping the matter apart.
[18:07:09] <Overmind> Your explanation is better at the moment. Movement of object in certain direction by affecting their collective molecular structure (but not reducing mass).. What confused me is that I've remembered that TK was able to 'bristle' someone's fur
[18:07:44] <Overmind> Yes
[18:07:47] <Overmind> This works
[18:07:58] <Overmind> You can use current TK skill to *choke* someone
[18:08:03] <Overmind> Physically
[18:08:16] <Overmind> So movement makes more sense than mass negation
[18:09:32] <Overmind> The idea of using TK for combat purposes was born way way before even 4S appeared, hah
[18:09:35] <crystalshine> Simple way (basic telekinesis): creating a space where all particles are favoring certain direction.
[18:10:18] <Overmind> ^ and sometimes strong enough to fully negate gravity
[18:10:32] <Overmind> for small objects and alike
[18:11:09] <crystalshine> hard way (selective telekinesis, for example choking): you have more small areas with different directions.
[18:11:15] <Overmind> unless you want to burn more energy/strain yourself due to larger AoE one needs to create 'n channel into 'activated field'
[18:11:44] <Overmind> Yup
[18:12:22] <Overmind> It's all about concentration, catalyst and experience in this case
[18:12:38] <crystalshine> Hard, another approach: Make them move faster, any direction. Heat spell. Can be also done another way.
[18:12:40] <Overmind> Potential energy too, given that you need to channel it out
[18:12:59] <Overmind> Ah
[18:13:00] <Overmind> Hahah
[18:13:36] <Overmind> That's another part.... after 'fundamentals' are established you can describe things and how different spells might be connected
[18:13:42] <Overmind> Like heat spell that you've mentioned
[18:13:49] <Overmind> Create Fire from fire college
[18:14:02] <Overmind> You create fire in 'space'. Any 'space'
[18:14:07] <crystalshine> Overmind: Yep, but heat spell can be done two ways. Telekinesis, or energy conversion.
[18:14:22] <Overmind> So it's essentially using Telekinetic/Field activation basis, but differently
[18:14:28] <Overmind> Yep
[18:14:36] <crystalshine> Overmind: Creating fire in vacuum too? I don't like that idea.
[18:14:55] <Overmind> Nah, vacuum would've been immune
[18:15:11] <Overmind> You 'can' technically create plasma if there is matter
[18:15:24] <Overmind> but I haven't seen spells like that, haha
[18:15:28] <crystalshine> good, that's what I thought.
[18:15:54] <Overmind> Create Fire is too low level for plasma
[18:15:57] <crystalshine> Fire, or flame, is plasma. So you just overheat the air or another gas.
[18:17:26] <crystalshine> Either by tk, accelerating particle movement, or by interference of your magic with env magic, generating heat.
[18:17:36] <Overmind> by plasma (in this case at least) I've meant different overheated gas (comparing to air). Yep. Helium, hydrogen, passive gasses.... there are options, but this smells like Thaumatology-based created spells
[18:17:50] <Overmind> Hm
[18:18:02] <Overmind> And not just accelerating, but accelerating it in a burst
[18:18:12] <Overmind> To a really quick chain reaction
[18:18:27] <Overmind> Comparing to some other more consciously controlled spells
[18:18:50] <Overmind> In Create Fire's example, at least
[18:19:03] <Overmind> http://pastebin.com/DxjtUCMS
[18:19:25] <crystalshine> Much harder than warm up a pony by heating his body. You have to give a strong impulse.
[18:21:19] <crystalshine> I like to make more approaches to something. Like that with fire. You can also generate cogerent beam of photons.
[18:21:59] <Overmind> Hm.
[18:22:23] <crystalshine> In my former RP magical university, i had quite nice entrance exam. Peel the orange using every school of magic.
[18:22:44] <Overmind> According to current Fire College, 'Warmth' is a lot more advanced than 'Create Fire' (for good reasons it seems)
[18:23:02] <Overmind> Ignite Fire/Seek Fire -> Create Fire -> Heat -> Warmth
[18:23:18] <crystalshine> Warmth is waker, but on much bigger space.
[18:23:33] <Overmind> Create Fire is an Area spell
[18:24:40] <crystalshine> What's the reason for warmth to be more advanced?
[18:26:09] <crystalshine> Create fire: impulse works well on gasses, because the molecules of gas are easy to move around. Casting it on enemy head doesn't explode it in fire, but is only uncomfortable…
[18:26:45] <Overmind> My undestanding is: Ignite Fire is a small area (around object) flick with different intensities. No real control, just intensity of 'injection' after which manifestation gets triggered. Create Fire is same only triggering reaction over larger area (but at lower/normal intensity comparing to max Ignite Fire).
[18:27:22] <crystalshine> >injection
[18:27:37] <crystalshine> so not tk based, but energy based
[18:27:55] <Overmind> Is see these injections less of a manipulation of large area, but like a syringe, making a brisk unstable injection into area which triggers chain reaction over enviro-energy
[18:28:16] <Overmind> imo, of course, might be different
[18:28:46] <Overmind> I know that Lucyne had the 'fundamentals' and own ideas while designing these colleges
[18:29:01] <Overmind> basing them on those three + their negatives + something else
[18:29:06] <crystalshine> I don't like the chain reaction… How about making your magic interfere with env magic, making it emit energy in form of infrared light?
[18:29:53] <Overmind> Enough thermal energy to produce actual ignition of air?
[18:30:02] <crystalshine> Or well…
[18:30:04] <crystalshine> wait
[18:32:01] <Overmind> Looking at it all, Conjuration imo is the most weird case
[18:32:26] <Overmind> School that is
[18:32:57] <crystalshine> Leylines… The cloud of particles that are invisible to eyes, yet are almost everywhere. Particles of magic. Vibrating with energy. Subatomic particles that can, in some conditions, transform to other forms of energy, or matter (not observed, but possible). You can can add your own energy and make it interfere with wild magic, giving it order and another form.
[18:35:13] <Overmind> Hm... what about summoning-type conjuration? I remember Lucyne, Tide and myself trying to go over Pathfinder's and 3.5's spell lists.... the only one that we had real problem was summoning conjuration, maintly due to 'planar contracts' that exist in those settings hah
[18:35:59] <Overmind> Taking into consideration that this is /mlp/ plane we're talking about, of course
[18:37:00] <crystalshine> You can create harmonic vibration of magic from your horn with magic around your target, like army marching over the bridge can destroy it by vibrations. The effect overheats the matter, because fast moving magical particles are pushing it the same way photons can push matter with solar winds.
[18:37:18] <crystalshine> oh
[18:37:26] <crystalshine> conjuration was always a problem.
[18:38:38] <Overmind> mmhm... conjuration always sounded rather OP 'expended energy' wise... even though even low level conjuration spells allow you to 'summon' a creature, heeeh
[18:39:51] <crystalshine> Conjuration is really hard to incorporate to physical world and not break laws of physics…
[18:40:59] <Overmind> It totally break them, kek. One of the things that was semi-explaining why 'low level summonings' were possibe at lower levels were those 'planar contracts'
[18:42:30] <Overmind> The mage would only need to perform a 'calling' invocation with specific parameter and the 'contract' laws of that plane would do the rest of 'heavy lifting' like dimension passing/teleportation/materialization of the denizen from that plane
[18:44:48] <crystalshine> Yeah… Just to conjure a pencil would need so much power that if you compared the light spell to candle, conjuration would be nuclear fusion.
[18:46:29] <Overmind> Mmhm.... that's also partially why Drown Compound (a jury rigged Create Water) spell is more of a 'teleportation spell'
[18:46:32] <crystalshine> You can either create matter (good luck, LHC can do it), or take it from dimension where it exists on the place you need (needs working multiverse theory and shouldn't be simple). Or you can take yourself to the reality where it exist on place you need.
[18:46:54] <crystalshine> Or you can teleport it from some place of your plane.
[18:47:00] <crystalshine> Still hard.
[18:47:35] <crystalshine> Also, last thing would lead to things disappearing at random.
[18:47:41] <crystalshine> Someone conjured it.
[18:48:01] <crystalshine> Would explain where are all my socks though.
[18:49:46] <crystalshine> related http://www.pidjin.net/2014/05/20/my-first-home-baked-bread/
[18:49:48] <Overmind> that's what happens with Drown Compound and water... it gets siphoned out of environment (but not from enclosed sources)
[18:50:20] <Overmind> pffft
[18:50:51] <Overmind> Hm...
[18:51:16] <Overmind> ... maybe incorporate 'contract laws' into same plane, only under different sauce
[18:51:54] <Overmind> Creating some BS resonance with ley lines that try to equalize disturbance?
[18:52:03] <crystalshine> Hmmm…
[18:52:53] <Overmind> The 'ley line' then takes the bulk of the work for equalization
[18:53:17] <crystalshine> If we think about ley lines as magical base of world, the primal source of everything…
[18:53:37] <crystalshine> The god, if you want…
[18:54:28] <crystalshine> Simply convincing the world that there really should be pencil on that place would make leylines create it spontaneously.
[18:54:38] <Overmind> A spider web/highway of concentrated mana energy that piece the space and project/emit background energy
[18:54:52] <Overmind> Hm.
[18:55:28] <Overmind> ... so... conjuration would be, basically, chaotic magic?
[18:55:49] <crystalshine> The opposite.
[18:56:02] <crystalshine> Or another form, if you want.
[18:56:28] <Overmind> Hah, higher order via chaos
[18:56:49] <Overmind> Then leylines and background mana/ley are chaotic
[18:56:57] <crystalshine> And indirect. Discord can work with creation itself… You can just indirectly affect it.
[18:57:06] <Overmind> And you create something 'orderly' in one place which triggers a response?
[18:57:16] <Overmind> Yeah....
[18:57:22] <Overmind> ... you've seen those apex spells ? :3
[18:57:30] <crystalshine> Magic of chaos – primal magic.
[18:58:01] <Overmind> SLSS's 'Apex' Spells
[18:58:02] <crystalshine> Directly affecting leylines, not using your own leylines, but giving them directly another form.
[18:58:02] <Overmind> http://pastebin.com/4nMXiAyE
[18:58:05] <Overmind> :3
[18:58:47] <crystalshine> nice
[18:59:06] <crystalshine> And still compatible with my particle magic headcanon.
[18:59:23] <Overmind> >dat evocation spell
[18:59:31] <Overmind> I've made calculations for it
[18:59:45] <Overmind> I-I'm not sure how a user's going to use it properly
[18:59:47] <Overmind> ahah
[19:00:17] <crystalshine> Too strong…
[19:00:27] <Overmind> because casting that even on 1 gram of matter would've produced rediculously OP explosion
[19:00:51] <Overmind> To survive this spell, you need to annahilate cluster of molecules
[19:02:08] <crystalshine> Evocation is one of purest school of magic, working with energy. I will make the ultimate spell free matter energy conversion, being able to create or destroy anything.
[19:02:17] <crystalshine> *would
[19:03:15] <Overmind> oof... I thinksleep's finally reaching me up
[19:03:46] <crystalshine> k. Hope I convinced you that we can build something without breaking anything.
[19:04:06] <crystalshine> Good night
[19:05:24] <Overmind> time to take a nap... eh, and you don' need to convince me if you find it fun to make 'n nail it down! I've been saltful entie day because I haven't slept for 36+ hours now
[19:05:52] <Overmind> i hope tht what I've mentioned will be useful otherwise there are logs
[19:06:03] <Overmind> Have a good evening!
[19:06:40] <crystalshine> Well, I hope I will get more by brainstorming ideas. Those logs are still insane ammount of data.
[19:09:25] <Overmind> well.... the corest of core gists was explained through this discussion. Light/Discharge/TK - Fundamentals/Negatives + that pastebin with Focus/Potential/Concentration/Catalyst/Experience is what was driving how those College spells (and their progression) was reasoned
[19:09:44] <Overmind> + some logic from DND 'n other things from Lucyne
[19:10:32] <Overmind> Internal-to-External energy manifestation is the core of it....
[19:10:38] <Overmind> ...ah, its time
[19:10:50] <Overmind> Have a g'evening
[19:10:55] <crystalshine> you too.
[19:12:10] <Overmind>  PS(And even if those cores are somehow messed up, they can always be changed by the author..... it's free for all in content producsion for fun)
[19:14:02] <crystalshine> well, the reasoning behind magic are still changeable or can be modified, if you don't change the way it manifests in world.