OmegaCalabi Conversation

OmegaCalabi: I'm not disagreeing with you, but the way I look at it.
OmegaCalabi: It's not limited to religion
OmegaCalabi: faith-based thinking exists as a product of the human mind
OmegaCalabi: and things beside religion take advantage of it too
InfernapeTropius11: true enough
InfernapeTropius11: religion is just the most obvious example
OmegaCalabi: word
InfernapeTropius11: i especially love the part where there is no proof god(s) exist and anyone who says theyve seen god(s) is branded as stark raving mad even by religious people
OmegaCalabi: that's gotta say something right? haha
OmegaCalabi: and the best evidence that exists is, "look at nature, how can there not be a God"
OmegaCalabi: when literally nothing about that statement implies anything about God
InfernapeTropius11: ikr
InfernapeTropius11: idk why its 2016 tho
InfernapeTropius11: i mean
InfernapeTropius11: imma go with the romans thought they were great and started from zero
InfernapeTropius11: or whoever was the dominant world force at that time i think it was the romans
OmegaCalabi: I mean that would make sense if the romans started in year 0
OmegaCalabi: we use that calendar system because the people in charge at the time had religious ideas
InfernapeTropius11: how do u think they measured time bce
InfernapeTropius11: i dont think they said "oh its 203 bce, next year will be 202 bce"
InfernapeTropius11: lol
OmegaCalabi: probably measured based on sun cycles but I dont think they had numbered years the same way we do
InfernapeTropius11: yeah
OmegaCalabi: I'm sure theirsense of history was on a much smaller scale
OmegaCalabi: there isnt really a need to talk much farther back than a few generations
OmegaCalabi: until you have empires
OmegaCalabi: which in that case you date back to when such and such was ruler
InfernapeTropius11: yeah
OmegaCalabi: that being said, other cultures had calendar systems
OmegaCalabi: but most of them started at year 0 when they MADE the calendar lol
InfernapeTropius11: yeah lol
InfernapeTropius11: the calendar year numbering system seems really arbitrary and flawed to me
OmegaCalabi: for sure it is
OmegaCalabi: the only one that makes "sense" is dating back to the T=0 at the big bang
InfernapeTropius11: i mean if someone were to become the dominant world power
OmegaCalabi: which holds no real relvance for daily lives of humans
InfernapeTropius11: build an empire like rome
InfernapeTropius11: and say this is year zero
InfernapeTropius11: we would probs reset
OmegaCalabi: Sure
OmegaCalabi: It's the same argument for religion
OmegaCalabi: if all of them were wiped out
InfernapeTropius11: and yeah today is day 4,569,782,016
InfernapeTropius11: no wait
InfernapeTropius11: year that
InfernapeTropius11: kek
InfernapeTropius11: lmao
OmegaCalabi: there would still be people claiming such and such supernatural events and doctrine
InfernapeTropius11: yeah
InfernapeTropius11: oooooh ufo
OmegaCalabi: but none would be the same as the dogma that everyone before had
OmegaCalabi: my argument everytime anyone tries to have me oooh and aaah at UFOs is to ask what the first word of UFO stands for
OmegaCalabi: when someone can show me an AFO
OmegaCalabi: I will flip out
InfernapeTropius11: a?
OmegaCalabi: alien
InfernapeTropius11: ah
InfernapeTropius11: unidentified flying object
InfernapeTropius11: tbh
InfernapeTropius11: but helicopter blades on a toy car
InfernapeTropius11: its an unidentified flying object
InfernapeTropius11: it has no name
InfernapeTropius11: o3o
OmegaCalabi: unindentified means you couldnt figure out what it was
OmegaCalabi: and apparently to most people
OmegaCalabi: that means aleins
InfernapeTropius11: anything flying is a ufo
InfernapeTropius11: t h
InfernapeTropius11: tbh*
InfernapeTropius11: lmao
OmegaCalabi: well not anything
OmegaCalabi: planes are planes
InfernapeTropius11: are they tho
InfernapeTropius11: what if thats what the aliens want us to think
InfernapeTropius11: o-O
OmegaCalabi: oh jesus
OmegaCalabi: lol
InfernapeTropius11: loooool
OmegaCalabi: real talk tho
OmegaCalabi: I've seen a UFO twice
InfernapeTropius11: :0
InfernapeTropius11: aliens exist obv
OmegaCalabi: my girlfriend saw it wioth me once
OmegaCalabi: I dont think it was aliens
InfernapeTropius11: i mean
OmegaCalabi: but it did things that made my brain literally think I was crazy
InfernapeTropius11: have u heard of that one formula
InfernapeTropius11: its like
InfernapeTropius11: the probability of an alien reaching earth
OmegaCalabi: I'm a super skeptical person but it was doing things I didnt think a plane should be able to do
InfernapeTropius11: it has a bunch of factors
InfernapeTropius11: the number of galaxies in the universe
InfernapeTropius11: the number of solar systems within those galaxies
OmegaCalabi: I'm sure there's lots of formulas to that effect, I dont which one you mean specifically, but do go on
InfernapeTropius11: the number of planets in thos solar systems that can support life
OmegaCalabi: that last factor is subject to much speculation though
OmegaCalabi: when you had a data set of literally 1
InfernapeTropius11: the odds of intelligent beings evolving into existence on said planets
InfernapeTropius11: the probability that they are smart enough to travel through space to reach us
InfernapeTropius11: and a couple other things iirc
InfernapeTropius11: i saw this joke that added two more
InfernapeTropius11: not part of the formula but should be
InfernapeTropius11: "percentage that came here without us realizing"
OmegaCalabi: yeah, to me the idea of galactic colonization is very human-centric, and plays into the view of how we colonized the planet
InfernapeTropius11: and "odds that they give enough of a fuck to even come here"
InfernapeTropius11: lol
OmegaCalabi: I'm a transhumanist, as it's called
OmegaCalabi: I dont think anything about the way the brain works is special
InfernapeTropius11: when we only use, what, 5% of our brains
InfernapeTropius11: i can understand that
OmegaCalabi: that's a myth
OmegaCalabi: we use all of our brain
OmegaCalabi: not at one time obviously
InfernapeTropius11: do we though
OmegaCalabi: yes
InfernapeTropius11: like technically
OmegaCalabi: liek technically
InfernapeTropius11: it could be argued that we use our whole brain
InfernapeTropius11: but
OmegaCalabi: not every neuron is activated at any given time
InfernapeTropius11: if we have thr capacity to expand our brain
InfernapeTropius11: are we really using all of it
OmegaCalabi: if it were we would die from electrical over-activity
InfernapeTropius11: loltru
OmegaCalabi: and the inability for messages of actual relevance to propogate
OmegaCalabi: in reality the brain is actually fairly effecient
OmegaCalabi: in terms of computational capacity compared to power usage
OmegaCalabi: imagine trying to run a silicon computer and have it do all the brain does on roughly 20 watts
OmegaCalabi: a computer scientist would call you crazy
InfernapeTropius11: true
InfernapeTropius11: but if it is efficient for our needs
InfernapeTropius11: but could potentially be more efficient/enlarged (not sure what the right term is)
InfernapeTropius11: is that truly efficient
OmegaCalabi: those refer to different things
OmegaCalabi: could you be more specific so I can follow?
InfernapeTropius11: i guess they kinda do
OmegaCalabi: because larger brains arent smarter per se
InfernapeTropius11: my philosophical question is like, if we need our brain to do something and it can do that
InfernapeTropius11: does that make it efficient
InfernapeTropius11: if it could potentially do a lot more
InfernapeTropius11: but we just dont need it to
InfernapeTropius11: or we havent figured out how to use it in such a way yet
OmegaCalabi: our brain does what evolution has brought it about to do
InfernapeTropius11: exactly
OmegaCalabi: it is by no means the most effecient system
OmegaCalabi: it exists because it allowed out ancestors to survive
OmegaCalabi: there are many things which it cannot do
OmegaCalabi: things we do not realize would be beneficial
OmegaCalabi: things that fall under the unknown unknown category
InfernapeTropius11: yeah thats my point--if it could do these things which we havent discovered yet does that mean the brain is inefficient because it cant do those things, despite it being able to fulfill our needs atm?
OmegaCalabi: ineffecient depends on what your point of view
OmegaCalabi: it depends on if you compare it to a seahorse or a singularity
InfernapeTropius11: im thinking inefficient might actually be the wrong word tbh
InfernapeTropius11: hmm
OmegaCalabi: most things in life depend on your viewpoint tbh
InfernapeTropius11: true
OmegaCalabi: like I said, if you were more specific about what youre refering to, when you say effecient
OmegaCalabi: I feel I would follow better
OmegaCalabi: so often people use words
InfernapeTropius11: i think im referring to what the brain has the potential to achieve
OmegaCalabi: because they are symbols, but symbols exist in the brain
OmegaCalabi: and often refer to different things to different people
InfernapeTropius11: yeah i tend to think in symbols or even movement
OmegaCalabi: sure, I would agree that on the entire scale of what is possible
OmegaCalabi: the human brain exists at the bottom of the well
InfernapeTropius11: tbh that's the entire form of facial recognition tbh--you remember shape and colour or w/e but can't always describe it
InfernapeTropius11: and yeah i think that's what im getting at
OmegaCalabi: because your thoughts often fail to match-up with the words the brain has available to express said thoughts
InfernapeTropius11: exactly
OmegaCalabi: on a personal note, I have asperger's, so that is something I have had to learn to deal with
OmegaCalabi: more so than others
OmegaCalabi: one thing I would point out however in terms of what the brain is "capable of"
OmegaCalabi: is that our brain as it exists now
OmegaCalabi: does nearly all of what it is capable of
OmegaCalabi: when I talk about "possiblity space" I recognize that many of the more "complex" versions of the brain
OmegaCalabi: do not necessarily resemble the brain as we understand it
OmegaCalabi: interconnectivity, and communcation between networks lies at bottom of it
OmegaCalabi: but the way the neurons work
OmegaCalabi: or the glial cells between the brain
OmegaCalabi: the types of neurotransmitters
OmegaCalabi: these are all the result of evolution
OmegaCalabi: they are by no means inherently the best
OmegaCalabi: I hope that makes sense in reference to what you were expressing
InfernapeTropius11: i think i understand what you're saying
OmegaCalabi: well that's positive
OmegaCalabi: I've usually lost most people by this point
InfernapeTropius11: essentially your view is the brain rn is "efficient" because it does everything we need it to do; the brain doesn't have too much room to "grow" as there isn't much else it NEEDS to do
InfernapeTropius11: but overall compared to what it COULD do, it is very lacking (our imagination can always outrun the limits of our brain lol)
InfernapeTropius11: correct me if i misinterpreted something
OmegaCalabi: 80% is right on, just a couple things I would specify
InfernapeTropius11: i might have misinterpreted smth as i tried to summarize it lol
OmegaCalabi: The brain doesnt do everything we need to
OmegaCalabi: and as far as the brain "growing" that has never been the result of what would ideally be the best
OmegaCalabi: it has been the result of what *hasn't* been eliminated
InfernapeTropius11: that resulted out of need theough evolution, not a desire for the best possible way to accomplish the task?
OmegaCalabi: that last point is right on
OmegaCalabi: we are however at the point where artificial selection will quickly overtake the entire history of natural selection in the timeframe of a few generations
OmegaCalabi: which leaves in a remrkable time and place to be alive currently
InfernapeTropius11: so the brain does most of what we need it to, and what it doesn't do we haven't relized we need it to do that yet, and it isnt the best it could be
InfernapeTropius11: true
OmegaCalabi: yes, the brain as it exists now does most of the things in 2 of the 4 categories of knowledge
OmegaCalabi: and provides insight one the 3rd
OmegaCalabi: *on
InfernapeTropius11: im not saying anything against those with disabilities or whatever, but natural selection would not allow these people to survive (theoretically)
OmegaCalabi: yeah, I'm not a eugenist, I agree to an extent.
InfernapeTropius11: but because of morals and equal rights for all etc. (which i dont condemn and am in fact in favour of) they get to survive distributing their "bad" genes
OmegaCalabi: Most likely natural selection would allow such individuals to continue
OmegaCalabi: because the level of complexity it takes to procreate and find food
OmegaCalabi: is far below the level we seek to achieve
OmegaCalabi: I don't think that having a policy of eugenics or breeding programs would result in a society that most people want to live in
InfernapeTropius11: i'm afraid you may have lost me there--are you saying that it is easy to survive even with such negative factors, meaning that these disabled people would survive anyway?
InfernapeTropius11: true, everyone being the same is no fun
InfernapeTropius11: idk about you but im having fun having this convo haha and if we were the same we wouldnt be having it
OmegaCalabi: most "disabled" people are not so impaired that they cannot maintain the basics of survival and procreation
InfernapeTropius11: yeah
OmegaCalabi: Yes, quite. I do enjoy this conversation this far
OmegaCalabi: natural selection is an EXTREMELY rudimentary process
OmegaCalabi: eliminating only the MOST detrimental hinderances through death
OmegaCalabi: most neutral and even negative characteristics continue
OmegaCalabi: because they are not negative ENOUGH to be deadly
OmegaCalabi: and often times positive traits are selected against through sheer chance
OmegaCalabi: they only work "towards" something on HUGE timescales
InfernapeTropius11: i agree yeah
InfernapeTropius11: it would take a long time and a lot of luck to achieve a race of "perfect" humans
InfernapeTropius11: or any species
OmegaCalabi: perfect human is an oxymoron haha
InfernapeTropius11: lmao
OmegaCalabi: by the time we achieve what we believe to be perfection
OmegaCalabi: it's my opinion that we will be nothing like human
OmegaCalabi: the biology that fails us
OmegaCalabi: that DNA that exists mostly as turned off sequences
OmegaCalabi: the brain that fails to inform us of what really matters
OmegaCalabi: these are things that will seem ancient and harmful in the future
InfernapeTropius11: true
OmegaCalabi: I just want to bring it up again, because I find it particularly interesting
OmegaCalabi: are you familiar with the 4 "categories of knowledge"?
InfernapeTropius11: just like we view our distant ancestors as ancient, simple, and inefficient beings compared to humans today
OmegaCalabi: exactly
OmegaCalabi: if a cro-magnon was walking the streets of an urban city, he would be unanimously viewed at lacking in the key qualities that make humans "human"
OmegaCalabi: but as we become more advanced, and change more and more about what it is to be "human"
OmegaCalabi: I doubt that's how the "people" of the future will choose to identify themselves
InfernapeTropius11: well they might still identify as humans
InfernapeTropius11: but they might view us as nothumans
OmegaCalabi: I don't know, it depends on how different they are.
InfernapeTropius11: like we compare our human ancestors to chimps cuz they werent very far diverged
OmegaCalabi: I feel as if the qualities and biology we have are "human"
OmegaCalabi: and as the average becomes far different, human will be the cro-magnon of tomorrow
InfernapeTropius11: we might be viewed as having the intelligence of some other species in this future world lol
OmegaCalabi: again human is just a word
InfernapeTropius11: true
OmegaCalabi: all I'm saying is that the people wont consider themselves like humans of today
OmegaCalabi: and since it's such a widespread word
OmegaCalabi: I think they will choose a different one
InfernapeTropius11: yeah i can see that
InfernapeTropius11: btw when we're done chatting would you mind copying this into a pastebin and giving me the link? i'd like to keep this convo for future reference if you don't mind as you've opened my mind to some new views haha
OmegaCalabi: Sure, do you not have the capability of doing so yourself?
OmegaCalabi: I don't mind at all tho
InfernapeTropius11: nah im on tablet atm i cant copy stuff from chatrooms/pms, only what i type up, and only before i send it
OmegaCalabi: And I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, what views I made new to you.
OmegaCalabi: I was worried that copy and pasting would make it look like shit, but it keeps the same format lol
OmegaCalabi: so allgood, just let me know what point you'd like me to archive it
InfernapeTropius11: mostly new information, the one about how the brain knows everything it needs to right now but isnt the most efficient way possible of existing (i know i worded that awkwardly ;-;)
OmegaCalabi: just in case something happens to my computer I'm saving at is it is now.
InfernapeTropius11: k cool, ty
OmegaCalabi: I understand what you mean, I'm not the judgmental type
OmegaCalabi: My language when I'm actually talking is pretty similar to how I talk when typing
OmegaCalabi: the only difference is the pauses I take to tink of a given word don't show up
OmegaCalabi: and my vocabulary choice often leads people to furow their eyebrowsat me
OmegaCalabi: all that is to say, don't be worried about how you perceive yourself to sound
InfernapeTropius11: yeah, i generally try to not use "big words" especially online cuz ive had that happen to me too
OmegaCalabi: all I care about is understanding the message you intend to extend, and whether I feel I understand it accurately
InfernapeTropius11: ppl are like "huh" and that ruins any chance at a decent convo
InfernapeTropius11: same tbh
OmegaCalabi: in my view human language is complex enough for me to want to use the words that accurately describe what I mean
OmegaCalabi: Instead of using 6 words, when 1 would suffice
OmegaCalabi: http://pastebin.com/3pYntqvM
OmegaCalabi: just in case
InfernapeTropius11: yeah its just a struggle when you know that one obscure word
InfernapeTropius11: and noone else does
InfernapeTropius11: lmao
OmegaCalabi: Exactly oras I often do, it's on the tip of my tongue
OmegaCalabi: And I know I could express it otherwise
OmegaCalabi: but I just want to say it, the way I wanto say it
InfernapeTropius11: the thing i hate the most
OmegaCalabi: is Donald Trump
OmegaCalabi: lol jk
InfernapeTropius11: is when i could describe it in a roundabout way taking 6 sentences that confuses people, but i know there is a word that could express my point clearly in like one sentence and i cant remember the word
OmegaCalabi: human language is a fickle thing
InfernapeTropius11: or i have it in my head as a sort of abstract piece of information and dont know how to convey that
OmegaCalabi: barely able to express the depth of the human psyche
InfernapeTropius11: and yeah haha i despise trump i think its retarded that he's been able to get this far
OmegaCalabi: I honestly thought it was a joke at the beginning
InfernapeTropius11: it was
OmegaCalabi: but I've stopped laughing
InfernapeTropius11: his goal was to get top 3 in the republican race
InfernapeTropius11: to publicize his business
InfernapeTropius11: it was literally a publicity stunt, he only "got serious" after he started winning
OmegaCalabi: yeah, well I know how I'm voting for
OmegaCalabi: write in "Anyone but Trunp"
InfernapeTropius11: the democrat?
InfernapeTropius11: lol so tru
OmegaCalabi: I despise Hillary
InfernapeTropius11: some ppl say cruz is worse
OmegaCalabi: I think she's a war criminal, but Trump is worse
InfernapeTropius11: he's radical too, trump is just more radical or more opposite radical--he changes his mind hourly
InfernapeTropius11: trump afvocated a war crime
InfernapeTropius11: he was interviewed live
OmegaCalabi: I'm from Texas, I know EXACTLY how far Ted Cruz differs from my viewpoint
InfernapeTropius11: and he said the us has to target the families of ISIS militants
InfernapeTropius11: at least u kinda know where cruz stands even if u dont like it
InfernapeTropius11: with trump he could be agreeing with you, super left of you, or super right of you, and his stance changes very often
OmegaCalabi: probably changes depending on what room he's in
InfernapeTropius11: oml
InfernapeTropius11: he said
InfernapeTropius11: his net worth
InfernapeTropius11: fluctuates
InfernapeTropius11: depending on HIS MOOD
InfernapeTropius11: so if he's in a good mood, hey, he's worth 3 billion dollars more
OmegaCalabi: That doesnt surprise me, coming from someone who's filed bakruptcy 4 times
InfernapeTropius11: he values the name "trump" by itself at $3 billion
InfernapeTropius11: ikr
OmegaCalabi: What are your views on colonizing other planets?
OmegaCalabi: I'm just curious
InfernapeTropius11: i think that colonization of other planets is interesting
InfernapeTropius11: but unfeasible atm for a few reasons
OmegaCalabi: I agree
InfernapeTropius11: mainly we have no good planets to colonize that we can reach, the only good ones are too far away to be able to colonize with current technologies (apparently there is a planet almost exactly like earth but twice as large)
InfernapeTropius11: unfortunately we have to put more than curious idle research into this though
OmegaCalabi: okay, one thing I'd metnion about the "near-earth" planets
InfernapeTropius11: because we're ruining this planet
OmegaCalabi: is that in actuality we know SO LITTLE about them, we have no way of saying whether they are earth like
OmegaCalabi: all we can say is their atmospheres have similar spectra
OmegaCalabi: and their size and temperature
InfernapeTropius11: well by close
InfernapeTropius11: i mean within our solar system
InfernapeTropius11: and able to be reached within a few years max
OmegaCalabi: I know, I was talking about exoplanets
InfernapeTropius11: by that i really mean Mars lol
OmegaCalabi: the "too far away ones"
OmegaCalabi: Mars or Cloud cities on venus
InfernapeTropius11: unfortunately its atmosphere isnt suitable for humans iirc
User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
InfernapeTropius11: hello
InfernapeTropius11: rly sry, my ipad died
InfernapeTropius11: ;-;
OmegaCalabi: It's all good
InfernapeTropius11: i think i was about to say venus doesnt work cuz its too close to the sun
OmegaCalabi: The SURFACE of venus doesnt work
InfernapeTropius11: mars cuz the atmosphere is wrong otherwise it looks possible
InfernapeTropius11: anything beyond mars is either gaseous or too cold tbh
InfernapeTropius11: hmm
OmegaCalabi: but there exists a layer of atmosphere about 50-60 (km?) up that has earth like temperatures and pressure
InfernapeTropius11: but if we could inhabit the clouds
InfernapeTropius11: why wouldnt we do that on earth
InfernapeTropius11: or does it only work on aphrodite
InfernapeTropius11: :-)
OmegaCalabi: lol, well the pressure of our atmosphere higher up is not 1 atmosphere
OmegaCalabi: I'm not saying it's the best idea
OmegaCalabi: just a few people have put it out there recently and I think it's interesting
OmegaCalabi: in my view, the human body can't exist for a lifetime outside of earth conditions
OmegaCalabi: we are too adapted to it
InfernapeTropius11: yeah
OmegaCalabi: hell we can't live in space for a year without huge health defects
InfernapeTropius11: unless ur specially trained right
OmegaCalabi: even astronauts how often do as much or more physical excercise than athletes still face huge problems
OmegaCalabi: the withering of bones
OmegaCalabi: circulation problems
InfernapeTropius11: true.
OmegaCalabi: eye malfunctions
InfernapeTropius11: zero gravity cant be good on a body adapted to gravity
OmegaCalabi: and not just excercise, everything about the way astronauts live on the ISS
OmegaCalabi: is an attempt to counteract not having gravity
OmegaCalabi: and it still takes a huge toll
InfernapeTropius11: tbh i bet it would be difficult to adapt to a planet with a gravity of 10
OmegaCalabi: it's hard to imagine a colony of lazy humans performing the same way trained astronauts would
InfernapeTropius11: even tho ours is 9.81 the extra pressure would be great
OmegaCalabi: a gravity of 10?
InfernapeTropius11: like
OmegaCalabi: m/s2?
InfernapeTropius11: gravitational force or w/e its called
OmegaCalabi: yeah, I didnt know exactly what you meant til I saw 9.81
OmegaCalabi: Idk, it's hard to say
OmegaCalabi: the other huge problem about living in space is radiation
OmegaCalabi: that's the other things about venus that makes it possibly better than mars
OmegaCalabi: it has way more protection from the sun and cosmic rays
OmegaCalabi: which reak havoc on DNA
InfernapeTropius11: true
OmegaCalabi: leading to huge cancer rates