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theredstar
Jun 6th, 2016
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  1. 2016-05-30 21:52:14 +hattusili_III modulus: so special districts are the local government organizations (created by cities and states, but all municipal power derives from state power in charters, etc)
  2. 2016-05-30 21:52:20 modulus aha
  3. 2016-05-30 21:52:27 +tristan__ yea, american
  4. 2016-05-30 21:53:08 +tristan__ one of their arguments is: "But most workers oppose violence and bullying."
  5. 2016-05-30 21:53:36 +tristan__ followed by, "The attempt to force schools to follow these guidelines also ignores the right to privacy, especially of women who wish to change clothes or use bathroom facilities without the presence of males. "
  6. 2016-05-30 21:54:01 modulus hmm
  7. 2016-05-30 21:54:13 modulus so the trans women are women argument doesn't have much weight for them, it seems?
  8. 2016-05-30 21:54:26 +tristan__ I guess this was written by comrade Huckabee
  9. 2016-05-30 21:54:46 +tristan__ modulus: yea, that is the really crazy thing about the laws trying to force people to use the bathroom associated with their birth certificate
  10. 2016-05-30 21:54:57 +tristan__ they are the ones making men go into the womens room!
  11. 2016-05-30 21:55:19 modulus strange
  12. 2016-05-30 21:55:25 +hattusili_III modulus: and what happens is the gov't creates these districts for special purposes. these districts have taxation, and occassionally eminent domain powers in their areas.
  13. 2016-05-30 21:55:37 +tristan__ but yea, the socialist workers party is beyond shit
  14. 2016-05-30 21:55:52 +hattusili_III the leadership of these special districts is seperately elected, they don't directly answer to the other bits of local government
  15. 2016-05-30 21:56:05 +hattusili_III modulus: so like school boards are one type of special district we have
  16. 2016-05-30 21:56:33 +hattusili_III all clear so far?
  17. 2016-05-30 21:56:35 modulus ah so they are sectorial, but they overlap with other local entities in terms of territory, right?
  18. 2016-05-30 21:56:51 +hattusili_III yes
  19. 2016-05-30 21:57:01 modulus right, clear so far
  20. 2016-05-30 21:57:13 +hattusili_III so the thing is, like past 40 years or so, they have been proliferating like weeds.
  21. 2016-05-30 21:57:20 modulus right
  22. 2016-05-30 21:57:28 +hattusili_III special districts for schools, water, sewage, mosquito control, firefighters, etc
  23. 2016-05-30 21:57:52 +hattusili_III so what this does is basically disincorporate local gov't and make things completely unaccountable
  24. 2016-05-30 21:58:03 modulus right, but these are elected as well, no?
  25. 2016-05-30 21:58:05 +hattusili_III like these elections often have 1-2% turn out
  26. 2016-05-30 21:58:10 modulus hah i see
  27. 2016-05-30 21:58:15 +hattusili_III but they're elected on seperate days
  28. 2016-05-30 21:58:27 +hattusili_III separate elections, for each district
  29. 2016-05-30 21:58:36 +hattusili_III one county has an election approx every 10 days
  30. 2016-05-30 21:58:43 +hattusili_III for different special districts
  31. 2016-05-30 21:58:51 modulus wow
  32. 2016-05-30 21:58:56 modulus that is excessive as fuck
  33. 2016-05-30 21:59:04 +hattusili_III people often live in up to a dozen special districts nobody knows about
  34. 2016-05-30 21:59:25 +hattusili_III the taxation powers are separate, so this isn't in like general gov't budgets
  35. 2016-05-30 21:59:57 +hattusili_III and there's like zero oversight
  36. 2016-05-30 22:00:06 +hattusili_III many states don't nkow how many special districts they contain
  37. 2016-05-30 22:00:49 +hattusili_III modulus: the other thing is how special districts are often used.
  38. 2016-05-30 22:01:06 modulus wow, that seems like a huge mess.
  39. 2016-05-30 22:01:10 +hattusili_III a common trick is to create a special district, on uninhabited land, for like, let's say development or something
  40. 2016-05-30 22:01:38 +hattusili_III then you have someone move in there, and be like the only voter, and they can vote to like issue hundred million dollars in bonds to give to developers
  41. 2016-05-30 22:01:56 +hattusili_III there are actually companies that specialize in providing "turn-key voters"
  42. 2016-05-30 22:02:11 modulus hattusili_III: trololol
  43. 2016-05-30 22:02:15 modulus this actually happens?
  44. 2016-05-30 22:02:19 +hattusili_III yes
  45. 2016-05-30 22:02:44 modulus how the fuck is this thing legal
  46. 2016-05-30 22:03:24 modulus so is there any sense that this shit needs to be stopped or is it some admin-technical thing no-one knows about?
  47. 2016-05-30 22:03:30 +hattusili_III i think it's purposeful disincorporation of local gov't functions in order to 1) reduce accountability to voters severely 2) reduce transparency 3) shift blame (city council didn't raise taxes, sewer district did)
  48. 2016-05-30 22:03:41 +hattusili_III modulus: not really it's just a nerd thing at this point
  49. 2016-05-30 22:03:45 modulus i see
  50. 2016-05-30 22:03:55 +hattusili_III like state treasurers and accountants bring it up occassionally but no one cares
  51. 2016-05-30 22:04:04 +hattusili_III and the incentives to do it are probably pretty high
  52. 2016-05-30 22:04:18 +hattusili_III modulus: a lot of these districts never publish budgets cuz they're so autonomous
  53. 2016-05-30 22:05:03 +hattusili_III it's also a good place for cronyism i think, with turnout so small. nice places to stick loyal toadies on the public dime
  54. 2016-05-30 22:09:47 Leevancleef I remember reading a story about a "turn-key voter" case a few years ago, but I didn't think it was a super widespread thing
  55. 2016-05-30 22:09:48 modulus hattusili_III: is there anything in US admin that isn't br0ked in some way?
  56. 2016-05-30 22:09:57 +hattusili_III i really don't think so
  57. 2016-05-30 22:10:09 <-- fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@c-73-38-57-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  58. 2016-05-30 22:10:26 Leevancleef I also didn't know there were places that had zone elections every 10 days. I thought these were usually all elected in either March, May, or November.
  59. 2016-05-30 22:10:29 +hattusili_III it's like everything is about as tortuous as it could be without completely ceasing to function
  60. 2016-05-30 22:10:33 <-- jebus_babby (uid74698@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bizefxosebuddsha) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  61. 2016-05-30 22:10:48 modulus i'd love to be a turn key voter, presumably they have to give you housing.
  62. 2016-05-30 22:10:54 +hattusili_III Leevancleef: nah that's *often* done but it's rarely mandated that special districts have the same election days
  63. 2016-05-30 22:10:59 --> fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@c-73-38-57-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined ##marxism
  64. 2016-05-30 22:10:59 -- Mode ##marxism [+v fuzzyhorns] by ChanServ
  65. 2016-05-30 22:11:13 +hattusili_III i always wondered about these random ass election signs that popped up all through the year
  66. 2016-05-30 22:12:34 +hattusili_III like what the fuck election is this, i already voted for town council, state rep, house rep, senate rep, president, judge 1, judge 2, judge 3, sherriff, school board, and county clerk, and county treasurer, and country recorder
  67. 2016-05-30 22:12:47 +hattusili_III (half of those elections were people running unopposed of course)
  68. 2016-05-30 22:12:50 Leevancleef Actually in the story I read, I remember the turn-key voter not actually being a shill. Just some person that was living in the zone. And all these lobbyists, development company hacks, and local bureaucrats were basically endlessly harassing her to vote their way.
  69. 2016-05-30 22:12:55 Leevancleef I think it was a screwup on their part
  70. 2016-05-30 22:13:02 +hattusili_III ah yeah they fucked up
  71. 2016-05-30 22:13:20 +hattusili_III you gotta move fast and get a some loyal people in right away and have that vote
  72. 2016-05-30 22:14:56 +hattusili_III i really don't like... just about everything about our government's organization
  73. 2016-05-30 22:16:21 Leevancleef Welcome to 200 of years of machine politics with minimal public awareness or pushback
  74. 2016-05-30 22:17:24 +hattusili_III like who the fuck are all these people i'm electing, why are they all unopposed, what the fuck is a recorder, why do i elect the sherriff
  75. 2016-05-30 22:17:45 <-- jacobi (~Mutter@109.255.139.57) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  76. 2016-05-30 22:17:51 +hattusili_III like when i go to vote i often try to research these people, there's nothing online, nothing in local papers except the short bios they turn in
  77. 2016-05-30 22:17:54 +hattusili_III it's a vacuum
  78. 2016-05-30 22:18:11 modulus http://libsocmusings.org/local-liberal-man-says-communism-is-against-human-nature-acts-like-he-has-made-a-profound-discovery/
  79. 2016-05-30 22:18:13 |Gramsci| Title: Local Liberal Man Says Communism is Against Human Nature, Acts Like He Has Made a Profound Discovery Libertarian Socialist Musings (at libsocmusings.org)
  80. 2016-05-30 22:18:35 +hattusili_III i remember one time i couldn't decipher what the party was until i was at the machine and it had the D's and R's
  81. 2016-05-30 22:19:03 <-- Blood-Wiper (~AA104106@173.57.22.4) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  82. 2016-05-30 22:19:10 Leevancleef Yeah most local positions don't have the party listed on the ballot
  83. 2016-05-30 22:19:18 modulus i now and then hear calls from altright or nrx types to have non-partisan elections where it's forbidden to say which party a candidate belongs to.
  84. 2016-05-30 22:19:26 modulus apparently because this will confuse the swarthy people.
  85. 2016-05-30 22:20:01 Leevancleef And you're right, most local positions are routinely one candidate
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