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Alerderna
Jan 7th, 2014
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  1. 01[12:08] <Alerderna> Like I PMed both Lucy, Able and Aoyin, one racial I came up with in my sleep called either "Batshit" or "Blood Rage" or if someone can think of a less edgy name.
  2. [12:08] <Al_naptiem> the jews did 9-11
  3. 03[12:09] * Al_naptiem is now known as Al_Dente
  4. 01[12:09] <Alerderna> Kind of like the same effects as the 'urf's Adrenaline Rush, but not completely feral to the point where you lose grip on who you are and be all like >i vant 2 suk ur blod
  5. [12:09] <CaptGreenHoof> ^^true
  6. [12:09] <Hidden_Glimmer> Bloodrage
  7. [12:09] <Hidden_Glimmer> Seriously?
  8. 01[12:09] <Alerderna> >or if someone can think of a less edgy name
  9. 03[12:09] * Quicksilver (~Quick_afk@host-92-1-80-138.as43234.net) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  10. [12:09] <Quicksilver> whats going on in this thread?
  11. [12:09] <CaptGreenHoof> >my little pony
  12. [12:09] <GreenSleeves> That ability in and of itself kinda sounds pretty edgy, to be fair.
  13. [12:09] <CaptGreenHoof> >blood rage
  14. [12:09] <Able_Tome> Hmm, main difference between Adrenaline and Rage, mechanics wise would be...?
  15. [12:09] <Curious> bloodrush? battitude?
  16. [12:10] <GreenSleeves> >Battitude
  17. [12:10] <GreenSleeves> 10/10
  18. 01[12:10] <Alerderna> Anyways... Thought for it to kick in, was if said Bat hits 5 HP or below
  19. [12:10] <Able_Tome> Puns, pls
  20. 06[12:10] * Alerderna kinda likes Batshit hue.
  21. [12:10] <Hidden_Glimmer> Repead it 50 times and tell me if you still like it
  22. 01[12:10] <Alerderna> Again, kind of like the Mud's Adrenaline Rush, but it has to happen to /you/ specifically for it to happen.
  23. [12:11] <Able_Tome> Alright, so far I see a copy of an adrenaline, but adrenaline works with -others- getting hurt
  24. 01[12:11] <Alerderna> Unicornshit pls hue.
  25. [12:11] <CaptGreenHoof> ew bats pls go
  26. 01[12:11] <Alerderna> Mud pls go
  27. [12:11] <Able_Tome> Why would only bats go into a >rush, by being hurt? Hm...
  28. 03[12:11] * GreenSleeves is now known as GreenSleevesLUNCHAN
  29. [12:12] <Able_Tome> 1,1>inb4 drinking blood turns a bat into hypered sucker~
  30. 01[12:12] <Alerderna> Kind of like that feral instinct, or survival instinct, kicks in, but as I said before, not to the point where they lose grip of themselves and go all >blood thirster on other p0nes
  31. 01[12:12] <Alerderna> brb
  32. [12:12] <Hidden_Glimmer> Can we please distance us from alö that edgy blooddrinking vamipre shit?
  33. [12:12] <Hidden_Glimmer> *all
  34. [12:13] <Curious> if anything adrenaline rush from being hurt yourself makes more sense than seeing others but...
  35. [12:13] <Able_Tome> Well... it's sort of part of their 'thing'
  36. 01[12:13] <Alerderna> That's what I'm trying to do, Hidden hue.
  37. 01[12:14] <Alerderna> Ebutt people have it drilled in their minds >hurr durr bloodsucking batshit
  38. 01[12:14] <Alerderna> Despite my suggestion, kinda liking Battitude now, it's something for the Quad S at least.
  39. [12:14] <Lucyne> Why don't we move away from the edgy animu-bloodlust theme that seems to be dominating bats and move to different themes?
  40. 06[12:15] * Alerderna is trying to do that ( ._.)
  41. 01[12:15] <Alerderna> fug, brb again
  42. [12:15] <Hidden_Glimmer> I just said that, lucy...
  43. 06[12:15] * Lucyne agrees with you
  44. [12:16] <Curious> what about the skreeing thing then?
  45. 01[12:16] <Alerderna> Ebutt I think "Batshit" or "Battitude" is a good racial for Bat's.
  46. 01[12:16] <Alerderna> The Echo Location whizardry?
  47. [12:17] <Aoyin> >Battitude
  48. 06[12:17] * Aoyin takes a deep breath in
  49. 06[12:17] * Aoyin lets it out
  50. 01[12:17] <Alerderna> hue
  51. 01[12:17] <Alerderna> Curious came up with it, not me.
  52. [12:17] <Lucyne> What if....batponies are pegasi with leathery wings?
  53. [12:17] <CaptGreenHoof> I like Lucy's idea.
  54. [12:17] <Hidden_Glimmer> Can someone link the 4s perhapsß
  55. [12:17] <Hidden_Glimmer> ?
  56. [12:17] <CaptGreenHoof> Such special snowflake for bats wow
  57. 06[12:17] * Hidden_Glimmer agrees with lucy
  58. [12:17] <Curious> http://pastebin.com/vLHm6pi7
  59. [12:18] <Hidden_Glimmer> Thanks curi
  60. 01[12:18] <Alerderna> http://pastebin.com/vLHm6pi7-fug Curi
  61. [12:18] <CaptGreenHoof> This bat headcanon is breddy edge
  62. [12:18] <Hidden_Glimmer> But perhaps things like Lightning clouds wouldn'T make as much sense for them.
  63. 01[12:18] <Alerderna> And, speaking from a biological stand point Lucy, how would that explain them gaining the echo location thing? The weird little bat chitter noises? The fangs? The wings?
  64. [12:19] <Hidden_Glimmer> Halloween costume
  65. 01[12:19] <Alerderna> >fangs
  66. 01[12:19] <Alerderna> >halloween costume
  67. 01[12:19] <Alerderna> okay.
  68. [12:19] <Lucyne> Bats would need fuckhuge ears to have echolocation
  69. 01[12:19] <Alerderna> Butsrsly.
  70. 01[12:19] <Alerderna> Fun fact.
  71. [12:19] <Lucyne> Like, the size of their heads
  72. [12:19] <Hidden_Glimmer> But yeah, urm... Lauren kinda said that Batshits are a seprarate race to Pegasi, so...
  73. [12:19] <Quicksilver> look at any batpony drawn by BatDesu
  74. [12:19] <Quicksilver> hue
  75. 06[12:19] * Alerderna is about to sperg out 'cause was well into Bat's before batp0nes
  76. [12:19] <Quicksilver> they DO have ears that big kek
  77. [12:19] <Hidden_Glimmer> Still no confirmation for echo location and shit, so go away with your headcannon
  78. [12:20] <Hidden_Glimmer> Actually no
  79. 01[12:20] <Alerderna> Actual bats have their ears specifically ridgid and formed so they can pick up on their out sub-sonic sonar thingy.
  80. 01[12:21] <Alerderna> Helps them hunt various insects and locate sources of water better.
  81. [12:21] <Hidden_Glimmer> http://iambrony.dget.cc/mlp/gif/372464__safe_animated_bat%2Bpony_luna%2Beclipsed_night%2Bguard_lunar%2Bguard.gif
  82. [12:21] <Hidden_Glimmer> I don'T see a difference besides fluff
  83. 01[12:21] <Alerderna> And not to mention flying around trees and canopies.
  84. 01[12:21] <Alerderna> Assists in their navigation.
  85. 01[12:22] <Alerderna> http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2013/362/a/c/flutterbat_by_aquaticneon-d6zs8lf.png Prime example I can think of for the specifically rigid ears.
  86. [12:22] <Hidden_Glimmer> FLuttershy doesn'T count
  87. [12:23] <Hidden_Glimmer> She was enchanted, the normal batponies are just a separate race
  88. 01[12:23] <Alerderna> And the little "fluff" things in their ears vibrate slightly as they pick up their sound.
  89. 01[12:23] <Alerderna> Kind of like, trapping it within their ears, like how sound bounces through halls.
  90. 01[12:24] <Alerderna> http://www.acoustics.org/press/162nd/Images/Pannala_Ear_GreaterHorseshoeBat.jpg Another example.
  91. [12:25] <Curious> so....mostly like pegasi but maybe replace lightning, and or wing buffet, with a more bat related skill?
  92. 01[12:25] <Alerderna> Now for the echo location shiz? I think it should come naturally, like, not have to be put on the Quad S, unless we can think of an upgraded version.
  93. 06[12:26] * Lucyne just sees a very large load of headcannon and no mechanical considerations
  94. 01[12:26] <Alerderna> Like a... DC 5, or not having to institute Kekplay.
  95. [12:26] <Hidden_Glimmer> ^
  96. 01[12:26] <Alerderna> Hey man, I'm just being real here, plus, I know alot about bats. Also don't really have much to go on by lore, either.
  97. [12:26] <Lucyne> No, but I am lacking in seeing rule considerations, aka mechanical
  98. 06[12:27] * Alerderna apologizes for sperging out
  99. [12:27] <Lucyne> No need to apologize but my objective view of this is being a bit disorganized
  100. [12:27] <Hidden_Glimmer> Also might i ask where's the reason for having echo location 'and' nightvision?
  101. 01[12:27] <Alerderna> Oh, was Liven's suggestions going to be added, too? Or no?
  102. [12:27] <Hidden_Glimmer> What suggestion?
  103. 06[12:28] * Lucyne has not received any rule suggestions except Liven's old ones which were discredited
  104. 01[12:28] <Alerderna> He whipped up some Zigger racials, I believe.
  105. [12:28] <Hidden_Glimmer> Let me guess, voodoo?
  106. [12:28] <Quicksilver> ew voodoo
  107. 01[12:28] <Alerderna> Eh, don't quite remember... But it was posted in the thread and archived.
  108. [12:28] <Able_Tome> >[18:27:04] * Lucyne just sees a very large load of headcannon and no mechanical considerations
  109. [12:28] <Able_Tome> sort of this
  110. [12:29] <Able_Tome> Mechanics and skills. Fluff is for later
  111. [12:29] <Able_Tome> 1) Echolocation, right?
  112. [12:29] <Quicksilver> fluff is for ears
  113. 01[12:29] <Alerderna> Echolocation should come naturally, IMO.
  114. 06[12:29] * Aoyin doesn't have fluff. Just sayin'.
  115. 01[12:29] <Alerderna> Unless there could be an upgraded version of it on the Quad S
  116. [12:30] <Quicksilver> Aoyin you removed the best part of the batponies
  117. 01[12:30] <Alerderna> And, I'm most likely going to take flak for it, but, here. This is the best I can find for batp0ne lore.
  118. 01[12:30] <Alerderna> http://batponies.wikia.com/wiki/Traits_and_Behaviours
  119. [12:30] <Quicksilver> now you just have the shitty parts
  120. [12:30] <Hidden_Glimmer> How do you think could echolocation be upgraded, and what would it do mechanicly?
  121. [12:30] <Hidden_Glimmer> >BAtponies Wiki
  122. [12:30] <Hidden_Glimmer> Really... really?
  123. [12:30] <Quicksilver> ^
  124. [12:31] <Hidden_Glimmer> REspect -1
  125. 01[12:31] <Alerderna> Mechanically, probably become a passive, or a DC 5 I betya. Could be used at anytime, but most efficient in dimly lit areas.
  126. [12:31] <Hidden_Glimmer> No, what it DOES mechanicly
  127. 01[12:31] <Alerderna> Like, how it occurs?
  128. [12:31] <Hidden_Glimmer> No, what it DOES
  129. [12:32] <Hidden_Glimmer> You rol la d5, waht happens?
  130. 02[12:32] * CaptGreenHoof (webchat@173.217.234.159) Quit (Quit: Web client closed)
  131. [12:32] <Hidden_Glimmer> God, my typing is atrocious today...
  132. 01[12:33] <Alerderna> Think of like a submarines sonar radar thing. It emmits sounds, bounces off objects and comes back. Same happens with Dolphin's and real life bats, as well, if that answers your question.
  133. [12:33] <Hidden_Glimmer> Because i either missed it or you haven'T explained that yet. Because for me, all it sounds like is a bonus to perception
  134. [12:33] <Hidden_Glimmer> You don'T get me, do you...
  135. 01[12:33] <Alerderna> Perception bonus? Eh...
  136. 06[12:33] * Alerderna hasn't really played DnD at all, but is trying damnit.
  137. [12:33] <Curious> Like the "scan the area" rolls i think she means
  138. 01[12:34] <Alerderna> Added bonus' to perception... Hmmm...
  139. 06[12:34] * Hidden_Glimmer is already thinking off debuffs coming from sensitive hearing
  140. [12:35] <Hidden_Glimmer> *of
  141. [12:36] <Hidden_Glimmer> But yeah, if it's a passive that's really all i can think of. Maybe +2 to all perception rolls or something
  142. 01[12:36] <Alerderna> At most, like we've got currently, an added +2 to all rolls except anything combat related, only in dimly lit areas, makes sense to me... But for the echo location stacking onto it? hmm...
  143. 01[12:36] <Alerderna> Thoughts, people?
  144. [12:36] <Hidden_Glimmer> >+2 to all rolls
  145. 01[12:36] <Alerderna> >except combat
  146. [12:37] <Hidden_Glimmer> >+2 to ALL rolls except combat
  147. 01[12:37] <Alerderna> That's one of the currently established racials going by the current thing that isn't the Quad S
  148. [12:37] <Hidden_Glimmer> That sounds stupidly overpowered
  149. 01[12:37] <Alerderna> Hang on, lemme link.
  150. 01[12:37] <Alerderna> And only during night time.
  151. 01[12:38] <Alerderna> Ah, no, it's +1, sorry.
  152. 01[12:38] <Alerderna> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqzKxeh9U-u7dDRmX0VjWS04ZXduWW5jb0pFN3FsR2c&usp=docslist_api#gid=14
  153. [12:39] <Hidden_Glimmer> I'm sure that all those things were just an unfinished idea of us trying to make a new system
  154. 01[12:39] <Alerderna> Still though, kinda like that idea.
  155. [12:39] <Lucyne> Well, normally I would say it should either give a bonus to perception or negate penalties from darkness. But, for neither of these things we have defined rules since the SSS has no perception roll per se
  156. 01[12:40] <Alerderna> In almost every head canon involving bat ponies, they are usually showcased as a nocturnal species. Having slitted-pupil eyes, most people implore that they are sensitive to light and can see well in the darkness. Coupled with echolocation, this helps provide a means for the bat ponies to navigate through the night. However, when exposed to bright environments, they may come across difficulties.
  157. [12:40] <Lucyne> Drow pls
  158. [12:40] <Hidden_Glimmer> You know +1 includes everything from acrobatics to sense magic or whatever other possible action aswell, right?
  159. 01[12:41] <Alerderna> Perhaps the first thing to be noticed on a bat pony are its wings, likely being the source of the race's namesake. While the feathered wings of pegasi usually share the same colour as their coats, bat pony wings tend to be on the more purple-hued side, or at least a closer colour to the pony's mane.
  160. 01[12:41] <Alerderna> Some agree that bat ponies have a harder time at learning how to fly, mainly because of the fact that bird wings have few joints while bat wings have dozens. However, while flight may come easier to pegasi, bat ponies may have potential to be more efficient flyers.
  161. 01[12:41] <Alerderna> That's also another thing that came to mind whilst scanning through the Wikia.
  162. 01[12:41] <Alerderna> Also brb
  163. [12:42] <Curious> yeah all rolls might be a op. perception rolls doesnt sound too bad
  164. 06[12:43] * Hidden_Glimmer prefers to stick with Lucy's idea of edgy pegasi
  165. 01[12:46] <Alerderna> Aaaalright
  166. 01[12:46] <Alerderna> So, any other thoughts on the "Battitude" thing?
  167. 01[12:46] <Alerderna> Or this Echolocation shiz?
  168. 01[12:46] <Alerderna> Also, will be in and out kinda, landlord is here.
  169. [12:47] <Lucyne> Well, I find them both to just simply not be fleshed out enough to make a good judgement
  170. [12:47] <Hidden_Glimmer> So, let's say a passive maneuver which gives +2 to perception and acrobatics only at night, would that be a start?
  171. 01[12:47] <Alerderna> That's why we're discussing it, Lucy and Hidden hue.
  172. 01[12:48] <Alerderna> Although I don't quite know the mechanics all that well, edgy Pegasi doesn't really seem to fitting for Bats.
  173. 06[12:48] * Hidden_Glimmer would have way more fun discussing debuffs during the day, hehe
  174. [12:48] <Lucyne> Normally, I expect the proposer to coem with an already functional idea that is then picked apart and improved upon, just saying
  175. 03[12:48] * Retrieving #fourcannon-plan modes...
  176. 06[12:48] * Alerderna ponii-shrugs
  177. 01[12:49] <Alerderna> that's the point of discussions, really. Improve upon, suggest, pick apart, figure out the mechanics, etc. etc. That's what this discussion is for.
  178. [12:49] <Hidden_Glimmer> But you are the one who wants those maneuvers, right?
  179. [12:49] <Lucyne> I guess
  180. 01[12:49] <Alerderna> I'm just throwing them out there, and seeing what others think, Hidden.
  181. 01[12:50] <Alerderna> Though I DO like the Battitude one meself.
  182. 01[12:50] <Alerderna> Here's a debuff for thought: Seeing as Bat's lack the feathers on their wings, it'd make them much more susceptible to cold, though seeming a bit more aerodynamic.
  183. 01[12:51] <Alerderna> So like a, more vulnerable to the elements, kinda thing.
  184. 01[12:51] <Alerderna> 'specially when in flight.
  185. [12:51] <Hidden_Glimmer> You know, besides Lightning cloud, the remaining 3 maneuvers are kinda already there, and i don't see need nor a way to change or remove then.
  186. [12:52] <Lucyne> Hm, yea, a huge span of well circulated tissue like wings would probably be bad for winter
  187. [12:52] <Hidden_Glimmer> Which means we need more rules for clothes, armor, flying in cold weather and cold weather, no?
  188. [12:52] <Lucyne> Technically
  189. 06[12:52] * Alerderna has been stranded in the Clinic for such reasons hue.
  190. 01[12:53] <Alerderna> Now don't really want anything to do with >muh Sangre, 'cause trying to steer away from that.
  191. 01[12:54] <Alerderna> >tfw my thought mortar depicts Batp0ne's to be light-hearted and whimsical, not dark and edgy
  192. 03[12:56] * Mary_ONette (~kvirc@c-75-69-215-212.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  193. 03[12:57] * Rain_Drop (Rain_Drop@mo-184-6-72-13.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  194. [12:57] <Rain_Drop> just a lerkin
  195. 01[12:57] <Alerderna> Right... So any other thoughts on the "Battitude" thingy?
  196. [12:58] <Hidden_Glimmer> Not really, no
  197. 01[12:59] <Alerderna> Should it be added to the Quad S as like a sub-category for Pegasi thing?
  198. 01[12:59] <Alerderna> Also, going to be Pastebinning this entire discussion and putting it in the thread.
  199. [12:59] <Aoyin> >what the fuck does it do
  200. 01[12:59] <Alerderna> >it was explained
  201. [12:59] <Hidden_Glimmer> Post it again
  202. 01[12:59] <Alerderna> Except mechanics, shit...
  203. 01[13:00] <Alerderna> Lemme type sumt'n up.
  204. 01[13:01] <Alerderna> Battitude: You've been reduced down to 5 HP or less, awakening your inner instincts, but not losing a grip of who you are. (And defenitely not the 5edgy blood thing). A (+1? +2?) is added to your aiming, init and damage rolls?
  205. 01[13:01] <Alerderna> First thing that came to mind. Thoughts?
  206. 01[13:02] <Alerderna> 1,1i-if that classifies as mechanics...
  207. [13:02] <Lucyne> Seems a bit OP 1,1and edgy
  208. [13:02] <Hidden_Glimmer> >+2 to damage, init and aiming
  209. [13:02] <Hidden_Glimmer> NUTS!
  210. [13:02] <Able_Tome> jesuschristhowhorrifying
  211. 01[13:02] <Alerderna> Then why don't we remove the Adrenaline rush from the Earth Pone? That seems to be OP, but nobody really bothers.
  212. [13:03] <Able_Tome> mayhaps if less than 3HP and d3 rounds of it?
  213. [13:03] <Hidden_Glimmer> >+1 to damage and hit
  214. [13:03] <Hidden_Glimmer> >+2 to damage, aiming and init
  215. 01[13:03] <Alerderna> Hidden
  216. [13:03] <Able_Tome> aka, less HP and limited time... hm, then again >6 seconds
  217. 01[13:03] <Alerderna> Hidden
  218. [13:03] <Hidden_Glimmer> You see the problem?
  219. 01[13:03] <Alerderna> . A (+1? +2?) is added to your aiming, init and damage rolls?
  220. 02[13:03] * Cheren-sleep (~Fags@162-234-96-184.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) Quit
  221. 01[13:03] <Alerderna> >(+1? +2?)
  222. [13:04] <Hidden_Glimmer> >Aiming, init AND damage rolls
  223. 01[13:04] <Alerderna> >then +1?
  224. 01[13:04] <Alerderna> That's why the brackets were there, brah.
  225. 03[13:05] * EyeSpy (~user@199.47.65.62) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  226. 01[13:05] <Alerderna> Aiming as in the hit thing
  227. 01[13:05] <Alerderna> Doesn't seem to OP to me if it's +1.
  228. [13:05] <Able_Tome> mmm... i'd say, instead of 'strength' bonus, unlike urf pones, you get a speed bonus
  229. [13:05] <Able_Tome> *like urf pone
  230. 01[13:05] <Alerderna> Hmm
  231. 01[13:06] <Alerderna> Or could reduce it to just hit and have a +2?
  232. [13:06] <Hidden_Glimmer> So +2 to init then?
  233. [13:06] <Able_Tome> thus, maybe, init or hit
  234. [13:06] <Lucyne> What about init and AC?
  235. [13:06] <Lucyne> That would be more agility like
  236. [13:06] <Able_Tome> sounds about right
  237. [13:06] <Lucyne> +2 init +1 AC or something
  238. 01[13:06] <Alerderna> hmm
  239. [13:06] <Hidden_Glimmer> I thought the pegasi were already invulnerable, or did that get fixed?
  240. [13:06] <Hidden_Glimmer> *got
  241. 01[13:06] <Alerderna> Could work, too. Leave the hit un-touched, then?
  242. [13:07] <Able_Tome> yes, but then we might tinker start up racials for bats like we wanted
  243. 01[13:07] <Alerderna> If stacked properly, and with that bonus, I /think/ you can get up to 15 AC
  244. [13:07] <Able_Tome> well... sort of wanted
  245. 01[13:07] <Alerderna> Pegasi and Bat's already have a 12 AC rating as it is, IIRC
  246. [13:07] <Able_Tome> pegasi get +2AC nat bonus. Bats get +1AC with smth
  247. 01[13:08] <Alerderna> huh
  248. 01[13:08] <Alerderna> weird
  249. 01[13:08] <Alerderna> I always thoughts Pegasi and Bats were equal for AC, 'cause >wings
  250. [13:08] <Able_Tome> iirc there was a proposition to split up (or rather expand)
  251. 06[13:08] * Able_Tome shrugs
  252. [13:08] <Hidden_Glimmer> >Bats and Pegasi are equal
  253. [13:08] <Hidden_Glimmer> Why don'T expand on that, eh?!
  254. 01[13:08] <Alerderna> That's what I've heard from the get-go, Hidden.
  255. 01[13:08] <Alerderna> Don't shoot the messenger.
  256. 01[13:09] <Alerderna> anyways, brb, landlords summoning me again.
  257. [13:10] <Able_Tome> hmm
  258. [13:10] <Able_Tome> +2 init +1 AC
  259. [13:10] <Able_Tome> that's basically two EXP points
  260. [13:10] <Able_Tome> >2 points into agi
  261. [13:11] <Lucyne> Yea seems unfitting
  262. [13:11] <Able_Tome> no
  263. [13:11] <Able_Tome> wait
  264. [13:11] <Able_Tome> rather 3 points
  265. [13:11] <Able_Tome> 3 points into agi, or 1 point into agi + 2 point into combat
  266. [13:11] <Able_Tome> if medium-to-large weapon is used
  267. [13:11] <Lucyne> agreed, AC is sort of a delicate attribute in 4S
  268. 03[13:12] * Cheren (Cheren-sle@162-234-96-184.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  269. [13:12] <Able_Tome> hm
  270. [13:13] <Able_Tome> and then, lets say we have this situation
  271. [13:13] <Able_Tome> f.e. it's triggered at less than 1-2HPs
  272. [13:13] <Able_Tome> what happens if someone's going to be kicked into negative zone, but a consciousness roll is gonna be permitted?
  273. [13:14] <Hidden_Glimmer> I'd say that's more a reason for a penalty than a bonus+
  274. [13:14] <Hidden_Glimmer> Like -2 to aim, init and damage
  275. [13:14] <Hidden_Glimmer> For everyone ,though
  276. [13:15] <Hidden_Glimmer> MAybe perhaps for sturdy earthponies, but that'S a case for the expanded feats
  277. [13:15] <Lucyne> Alternative idea could be something like triggers in negaitve HP, gives a more substantial bonus due to unfavorable circumstances of activation, amybe also a bonus to stay conscious
  278. 01[13:15] <Alerderna> alright, back
  279. [13:15] <Able_Tome> hm
  280. [13:15] <Able_Tome> so basically something that can keep a bat afloat in negative zone
  281. [13:16] <Hidden_Glimmer> And why would only bats have that then?
  282. 01[13:16] <Alerderna> From a /biological/ standpoint, though, both Pegasi and Bats should have a higher red blood cell count and better lung capacity than all the other races.
  283. [13:16] <Hidden_Glimmer> Reason behind this is?
  284. [13:16] <Lucyne> Here is what I posted on metacouncil about the red blood cells:
  285. [13:16] <Lucyne> Another case of "no reason for it to be, no reason against it". It would be easy to imagine that flying phenotypes would have better respiratory abilities, but seeing the ridiculously larger-than-life abilities shown by normal ponies anyhow, explaining their biology without moving away significantly from what we know (magical anatomy, or possibly also hyper evolved proteins far beyond
  286. [13:16] <Lucyne> anything [yet] produced on Earth). As such wouldn't care much either direction as long as mechanics aren't influenced. If this is an attempt to allow Pegasi and Bats to measurably, say, hold their breathe longer or recover from wounds and fatigue more quickly, I would like to discuss it in more detail. Not that couldn't be interesting, hyper evolved blood circulation and respiration
  287. [13:16] <Lucyne> in ponies giving higher energy densities required for their abilities, just channeled in different ways, say Unicorns are truly significantly weaker than other races because so much biological energy is spent on the horn, while Pegasi are weaker than Earthies because so much energy is required to maintain their super-physical wings. Just ideas, more discussion the better.
  288. 01[13:17] <Alerderna> The flying thing, Hidden. From that. Birds in real have better airflow, and have a higher red blood cell count to carry that oxygen through the body.
  289. 01[13:18] <Alerderna> Has been known to happen in humans, too. The Ghurka's have a higher red blood cell count because they train in the mountains with minimal oxygen up there.
  290. 01[13:18] <Alerderna> GL and I sperged out on this in the thread before as well.
  291. 01[13:18] <Alerderna> Last thread, I believe.
  292. 01[13:18] <Alerderna> So it's been archived and all.
  293. 01[13:19] <Alerderna> Believe it's going to be broguht up in the next Metacil meeting as well, and lemme read Lucy's textwall hue.
  294. [13:20] <Able_Tome> Well
  295. 01[13:20] <Alerderna> And maybe Ziggers could have a slightly higher white blood cell count from all the shit they'd have to endure in the wild... hmmm... Anyways, off topic with that hue.
  296. [13:20] <Able_Tome> It's already placed in a queue
  297. [13:21] <Able_Tome> The decision seems to be straightforward, but the main question is -how- it's going to mechanically affect the game in the future
  298. 03[13:22] * AirTrade (webchat@24.236.149.57) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  299. 01[13:23] <Alerderna> Hmmmmm, Stamina, most likely. Both Pegasi and Bats could keep in the air longer, run faster and be a tad quicker, maybe. Though, that already counts for AC, IIRC
  300. 01[13:24] <Alerderna> http://archive.heinessen.com/mlp/thread/S15311612#p15440911 There's the post that GL made supporting the theory
  301. [13:25] <AirTrade> I think pegasi should be faster and more agile in the air than bats
  302. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> How so?
  303. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> And here's the textwall you missed, Air.
  304. [13:26] <Hidden_Glimmer> Because leather wings?
  305. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> Here is what I posted on metacouncil about the red blood cells:
  306. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> Another case of "no reason for it to be, no reason against it". It would be easy to imagine that flying phenotypes would have better respiratory abilities, but seeing the ridiculously larger-than-life abilities shown by normal ponies anyhow, explaining their biology without moving away significantly from what we know (magical anatomy, or possibly also hyper evolved proteins far beyond
  307. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> anything [yet] produced on Earth). As such wouldn't care much either direction as long as mechanics aren't influenced. If this is an attempt to allow Pegasi and Bats to measurably, say, hold their breathe longer or recover from wounds and fatigue more quickly, I would like to discuss it in more detail. Not that couldn't be interesting, hyper evolved blood circulation and respiration
  308. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> in ponies giving higher energy densities required for their abilities, just channeled in different ways, say Unicorns are truly significantly weaker than other races because so much biological energy is spent on the horn, while Pegasi are weaker than Earthies because so much energy is required to maintain their super-physical wings. Just ideas, more discussion the better.
  309. [13:26] <Hidden_Glimmer> I don't know, but i like Air'S idea
  310. 01[13:26] <Alerderna> The wing thing could be argued down to an Aerodynamic standpoint, I guess.
  311. [13:27] <AirTrade> Bats dont have feathers, which allow for greater agility in the air
  312. [13:28] <AirTrade> Not to mention, if they were equals in that sense, bats would be greater because they are also better omnivores than ponies
  313. 01[13:29] <Alerderna> Bat wings = more surface area, better lift, probably a bit less drag when flying, but susceptible to the elements, especially the cold. Pegasi wings = less surface area, feathers do offer more protection from the elements, especially the cold, feathers produce a bit more drag than Bat wings, but can allow for tight banking turns.
  314. 01[13:30] <Alerderna> http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Analogy_of_forelimbs.htm Biology!
  315. 01[13:31] <Alerderna> http://www.livescience.com/1245-bats-efficient-flyers-birds.html Science and biology!
  316. 01[13:32] <Alerderna> As ber the feathers, the more "fingers" in the bat wings can specifically manipulated in different sections of the wing, thus, producing the drag when nessicary to make those tight banking turns as well.
  317. 06[13:34] * Alerderna can sperg out on /actual/ bat aerodynamics and flight methods all day
  318. [13:34] <AirTrade> The bats wings are outweigh by downsides, but the diet of a bat pony balances it.
  319. 01[13:34] <Alerderna> Tho' I'd imagine actual bat wings and batp0ne wings aren't all that different, except the size thing hue.
  320. 01[13:35] <Alerderna> Did you read that last link, Air?
  321. [13:35] <AirTrade> And pegasi are again, more agile in the air a.d more resistant to the cold
  322. 01[13:35] <Alerderna> Again, did you read the last link, Air?
  323. [13:36] <AirTrade> Yes
  324. 01[13:37] <Alerderna> Then from a biological and scientific standpoint, what makes you think that Pegasi are more agile in air?
  325. 01[13:37] <Alerderna> Though I agree with you on the cold resilience thing hue.
  326. 01[13:38] <Alerderna> The other key to a bat’s efficient flight lies in its highly elastic wing. Videos from the wind tunnel tests show that a bat’s wing is mostly extended for the down stroke during straightforward flight. But because the membrane can curve and stretch much more than a bird’s wing can, bats can generate greater lift for less energy.
  327. 06[13:39] * Alerderna is kinda hyped up of a lot of caffeine, pardon his spergy-ness hue.
  328. [13:39] <AirTrade> The feathers, allow for as you said, sharper turns in the air and resistance to cold. Not to mention bird wings can glide easier than a bat
  329. 01[13:40] <Alerderna> True enough, but reading up more on these "finger" things for bats, can kinda contradict what I said.
  330. 01[13:40] <Alerderna> >tfw condradicted self
  331. [13:40] <AirTrade> Also, dat cold weakness makes batpones useless for almost half the year
  332. 01[13:41] <Alerderna> http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/bat-wing.gif
  333. 01[13:42] <Alerderna> http://www.hirezfox.com/batty/fanart/batwing.jpg Ah, here's what I'm looking for.
  334. 01[13:42] <Alerderna> Seems like, just as the human hand, can manipulate their wings so they can do aformentioned banking on a moments notice.
  335. [13:42] <AirTrade> What are you trying to prove topbag
  336. [13:42] <AirTrade> topbat*
  337. 01[13:43] <Alerderna> I'm just condradicting myself at this point hue.
  338. 01[13:43] <Alerderna> Lemme look into this further, we've kinda de-railed at this point.
  339. [13:43] <AirTrade> Your waifus a shit
  340. 01[13:43] <Alerderna> Anyways folks, final thoughts on the "Battitude" racial?
  341. 01[13:44] <Alerderna> Able_Tome, Lucyne, Hidden_Glimmer?
  342. [13:44] <Lucyne> >final
  343. 01[13:44] <Alerderna> Aoyin?
  344. 01[13:44] <Alerderna> Final for now
  345. [13:44] <Able_Tome> Here
  346. [13:44] <Able_Tome> hm
  347. [13:44] <AirTrade> >Final
  348. [13:44] <Lucyne> I didn't see any final proposal, yet, so I have no final opinion just yet
  349. 01[13:44] <Alerderna> until it's brought up yet again hue.
  350. 01[13:44] <Alerderna> Ah, right, lemme scroll up and find the pastes. Able had some good suggestions.
  351. [13:45] <Able_Tome> well, those were only suggestions... the negative zone buff to consciousness and some attributes seems doable
  352. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> hmm
  353. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> +2 init +1 AC
  354. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> that's basically two EXP points
  355. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> >2 points into agi
  356. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> Yea seems unfitting
  357. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> no
  358. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> wait
  359. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> rather 3 points
  360. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> 3 points into agi, or 1 point into agi + 2 point into combat
  361. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> if medium-to-large weapon is used
  362. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> agreed, AC is sort of a delicate attribute in 4S
  363. [13:45] <Able_Tome> Yeah, that was basically me explaining why buffing init and AC just like that is eh
  364. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> hm
  365. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> and then, lets say we have this situation
  366. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> f.e. it's triggered at less than 1-2HPs
  367. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> what happens if someone's going to be kicked into negative zone, but a consciousness roll is gonna be permitted?
  368. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Hidden_Glimmer> I'd say that's more a reason for a penalty than a bonus+
  369. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Hidden_Glimmer> Like -2 to aim, init and damage
  370. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Hidden_Glimmer> For everyone ,though
  371. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Hidden_Glimmer> MAybe perhaps for sturdy earthponies, but that'S a case for the expanded feats
  372. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Lucyne> Alternative idea could be something like triggers in negaitve HP, gives a more substantial bonus due to unfavorable circumstances of activation, amybe also a bonus to stay conscious
  373. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Alerderna> alright, back
  374. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> hm
  375. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> so basically something that can keep a bat afloat in negative zone
  376. 01[13:45] <Alerderna> <Hidden_Glimmer> And why would only bats have that then?
  377. 01[13:46] <Alerderna> I WILL be also be Pastebinning this discussion and posting it in the thread, so it's at least discussed more.
  378. 01[13:47] <Alerderna> I know this is probably going to take more than just one discussion hue.
  379. 01[13:47] <Alerderna> I kind of like Able's suggestion meself.
  380. [13:48] <AirTrade> Up next on FourCannon-Plan: Ghost Town
  381. 01[13:48] <Alerderna> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB56VYcAEkY Ghost Town, you say?
  382. [13:50] <Able_Tome> So...
  383. [13:51] <Able_Tome> Negative zone: +X to consciousness roll, if successful: +Y to init and... something?
  384. 01[13:51] <Alerderna> I can't think of anything better for Battitude hue.
  385. 01[13:51] <Alerderna> And dipping below 1 or 2 HP seems kinda... Eh, to me. How about 4 HP and below?
  386. 02[13:53] * AirTrade (webchat@24.236.149.57) Quit (Ping timeout: 202 seconds)
  387. 03[13:53] * Air_Trade (AirTrade@24.236.149.57) has joined #fourcannon-plan
  388. 01[13:54] <Alerderna> Though do like the +X to conciousness and +X to Init. When mode is activated, there's going to be a +1 for AC, right?
  389. [13:54] <Air_Trade> so we go?
  390. [13:54] <Able_Tome> hmm... I'd like to hear what Lucyne thinks on that
  391. 06[13:55] * Lucyne is semi afk eating, sorry
  392. [13:55] <Lucyne> AC bonus is always real nice
  393. [13:55] <Lucyne> And better than consciousness or Init
  394. [13:56] <Lucyne> If we do neg HP only though, we can allow a bit more since it's a more unfavorable activation
  395. 01[13:57] <Alerderna> OROROR
  396. [13:57] <Air_Trade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Podnos3GnLE&list=PL2F81DD0F2DBF4ABA Why am i still listening to this
  397. 01[13:57] <Alerderna> We could call it "Batshift"
  398. [13:57] <Lucyne> all in all: ihavetoomuchheadachetojudgethisrightnow/10
  399. [13:57] <Air_Trade> >Batshift
  400. 01[13:57] <Alerderna> hmm
  401. [13:57] <Air_Trade> ALe, what is with you and bat everything
  402. 01[13:58] <Alerderna> Going to do some testing in #ShadyShack
  403. 01[13:58] <Alerderna> And, it was another name for it suggested, Air hue.
  404. 01[13:58] <Alerderna> Those three are the /least/ edgiest sounding ones so far.
  405. 01[13:59] <Alerderna> So, >+1 to AC when 4 HP or below >gets to the negatives >d20+X for consiousness >if successfull >d20+X to init, maybe hit?
  406. 06[14:01] * Alerderna can't help but think of Trans-Am from Gundam 00
  407. [14:02] <Air_Trade> So we done with bat discussion yet?
  408. 01[14:03] <Alerderna> I don't know. Waiting on other responses.
  409. [14:03] <Hidden_Glimmer> More like below 3 hp...
  410. 01[14:03] <Alerderna> Hmmm...
  411. [14:04] <Hidden_Glimmer> Also i find it weird how you get a bonus to acting fast when you should be uncounious normally!
  412. 01[14:04] <Alerderna> >A bats Batshift/Batshit/Battitude ability + an 'Urf's Adrenaline Rush >utter destruction hue.
  413. [14:04] <Air_Trade> >All these special bat abilities
  414. 01[14:04] <Alerderna> Well, at least it's better than my "OP PLS NERF" suggestion hue.
  415. 01[14:04] <Alerderna> There's only one suggested so far, Air.
  416. 01[14:04] <Alerderna> Name is still undecided.
  417. 01[14:05] <Alerderna> It's kinda similar to an 'Urf's Adrenaline Rush, but not really.
  418. [14:06] <Hidden_Glimmer> You care a little bit too much over the name.
  419. 06[14:06] * Alerderna likes the puns hue.
  420. 01[14:07] <Alerderna> Plus, they sound the /least/ edgiest from what was suggested.
  421. 01[14:07] <Alerderna> So below 3 HP and below besides 4 HP and below?
  422. 01[14:08] <Alerderna> And aformentioned additions?
  423. 06[14:09] * Alerderna will still be Pastebinning the entire discussion and posting it in the thread for more discussion
  424. [14:09] <Hidden_Glimmer> Maybe +2 to init and +1 on AC by 3 hp or lower... but you should really talk more about this with people who actually know something about balance
  425. 01[14:10] <Alerderna> And naturally it's a +2 to a bat ponies AC, making it 13 AC, same with Pegasi, right?
  426. 06[14:15] * Air_Trade uses defib
  427. [14:15] <Air_Trade> Talk so we can move to next topic
  428. 06[14:15] * Alerderna waiting intensifies
  429. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> AAAAAAAAAAA
  430. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> <Alerderna> And naturally it's a +2 to a bat ponies AC, making it 13 AC, same with Pegasi, right?
  431. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> uh
  432. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> Currently bats = pegasi
  433. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> <Able_Tome> both have nat +2 AC
  434. 01[14:16] <Alerderna> <Alerderna> That's all I needed to know hue.
  435. [14:17] <Able_Tome> >+2 to init and +1 on AC by 3 hp or lower
  436. [14:17] <Able_Tome> it's OP
  437. [14:17] <Air_Trade> ^
  438. 01[14:17] <Alerderna> ehwhat
  439. [14:17] <Able_Tome> you have to spend 3 EXP points to gain that
  440. 01[14:17] <Alerderna> no
  441. [14:17] <Able_Tome> with current skill trees
  442. 06[14:18] * Alerderna is thinking of something else
  443. [14:18] <Able_Tome> 3 points in Agility, or 1 point in agility + 2 points in combat
  444. [14:18] <Able_Tome> thus, >+2 to init, +1 AC | for one point are a bit off
  445. 01[14:19] <Alerderna> Hmmm... What were the other suggestions so I can notepad them?
  446. 01[14:21] <Alerderna> eh, just those two I can see.
  447. 01[14:21] <Alerderna> Alright, any other suggestions, or are we good now?
  448. 01[14:22] <Alerderna> Lucyne's down for the count it seems... Hidden_Glimmer ? Able_Tome ?
  449. [14:23] <Hidden_Glimmer> Not really... like i said, in my eyes Batponies are just edgy Pegasi
  450. [14:23] <Hidden_Glimmer> And they kinda use the pegasi feats one or the other way with flying and everything
  451. 06[14:24] * Alerderna still holds strong to his belief that batp0ne's are light-hearted and whimsical, not dark and edgy
  452. [14:25] <Able_Tome> For the rush ability, if it can be explained somehow, I'd stay with my suggestion: if you're kicked into a negative zone you get a +2-4 to consciousness check. If check succeeds, you gain a +2 init bonus, and +2 for evasion (though currently evasion rolls, not ACs are situational, hmm... so -maybe- 1AC)
  453. [14:26] <Able_Tome> the thing though: you're in a negative HP zone, so your fighting would be shit... or this bonus only applies to X number of rounds
  454. [14:26] <Able_Tome> after which you must make another consciousness roll
  455. [14:26] <Able_Tome> BUT
  456. [14:26] <Able_Tome> this suggestion is shit because >too many rolls and stats
  457. [14:27] <Able_Tome> so streamlining it might do good
  458. 06[14:27] * Alerderna will be putting it up in the thread anyways
  459. [14:27] <Hidden_Glimmer> But wouldn't +2 evasion would be 3 points in agility again?
  460. 01[14:28] <Alerderna> >Able textwalling away IC hue
  461. 01[14:30] <Alerderna> Alright... I think we'll put a halt on this discussion for now, 'cause Air wants to discuss this Ghost Town thingy.
  462. 01[14:30] <Alerderna> Now comes the ever tedious task of Pastebinning.
  463. [14:31] <Hidden_Glimmer> >Copy Paste | >tedious
  464. [14:31] <Mary_ONette> it can be tedious sometimes
  465. [14:32] <Hidden_Glimmer> Unless you're removing the times, then yes, it is tedious.
  466. [14:32] <Air_Trade> We ready for next discussion?
  467. [14:33] <Hidden_Glimmer> You mean the ghost time on the other side of the forest?
  468. [14:34] <Hidden_Glimmer> *town
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