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- 12:50 SilentVerse whee, don't really wanna bring this up again, but
- 12:50 SilentVerse "Subjectivity around Queen? Yes I agree which is why it shouldn't even be a suspect. You can't objectively demonstrate that it's broken so don't ban it."
- 12:50 SilentVerse i disagree with this, on the basis that
- 12:51 SilentVerse if people disagree about something, it SHOULD be suspected
- 12:51 SilentVerse because that is the point of a suspect test
- 12:51 Texas i honestly dont care if its SUSPECTED because lol omastar, but I have a huge issue if it gets banned
- 12:53 Texas I honestly can't think of anyone in recent memory who's said, "man, nidoqueen really destroys this team even though i knew it was good and made sure to check it when teambuilding"
- 12:53 SilentVerse i have lol
- 12:53 SilentVerse not in rarelyused, but
- 12:53 SilentVerse there have so many times where i have though
- 12:54 SilentVerse "oh, man, tangrowth checks this and this and this and this"
- 12:54 SilentVerse oh shit, it leaves me vulnerable to queen and i gotta slap uxie on my team if i use it
- 12:54 SilentVerse etc etc
- 12:55 Texas which is not the same thing as what i said
- 12:55 SilentVerse do explain what you said then
- 12:55 Texas "man, nidoqueen really destroys this team even though i knew it was good and made sure to check it when teambuilding"
- 12:55 Texas i dont think its that hard to understand what i said lol
- 12:56 SilentVerse o
- 12:56 SilentVerse yeah ok
- 12:56 SilentVerse that happened to me too~
- 12:56 SilentVerse take my
- 12:56 SilentVerse stall team vs windsong for example
- 12:56 SilentVerse i have still lost to nidoqueen multiple times
- 12:56 SilentVerse even though i ran a pokemon that is supposed to outright beat it
- 12:56 Texas you;ll have to provide team examples i dont have them memorized
- 12:58 SilentVerse ugh
- 12:58 SilentVerse fine
- 12:58 SilentVerse steelix
- 12:58 SilentVerse poliwrath
- 12:58 SilentVerse lickilikcy
- 12:58 Texas also i dont think its necessary that all team styles be viable anymore
- 12:58 SilentVerse roselia
- 12:58 Texas look at OU
- 12:58 SilentVerse cryogonal
- 12:58 Texas stall hasnt been viable in years
- 12:58 SilentVerse spiritomb
- 12:58 SilentVerse yes, which is why
- 12:58 SilentVerse so many people quit because of bw ou
- 12:58 SilentVerse 9.9
- 12:59 Texas thats a very sweeping generalization
- 12:59 Texas and a potentially faulty cause and effect
- 13:00 Texas also explain to me how your team lost
- 13:00 Texas it looks to me like windsong removed licky and cryo
- 13:00 Texas and then cleaned up with queen?
- 13:00 SilentVerse not just in windsong's match
- 13:00 SilentVerse in my grand slam match vs blarajan for example
- 13:00 Texas speaking specifically to that match though
- 13:00 SilentVerse i used a similar team with wish gallade
- 13:00 Texas is that more or less what happened?
- 13:00 SilentVerse no, i had to risk
- 13:00 SilentVerse burning it with tomb to kill it
- 13:01 SilentVerse otherwise i'm pretty sure i still would've lost
- 13:01 SilentVerse because his team kept pressuring mine
- 13:01 SilentVerse and licki did not have time to use wish + protect
- 13:01 SilentVerse without letting shit like kabutops set up for free
- 13:01 Texas ah see now we see the logical flaw
- 13:01 Texas you've attributed nidoqueens brokenness to factors outside of its influence
- 13:02 Texas including team pressure
- 13:02 SilentVerse are you
- 13:02 SilentVerse kidding me
- 13:02 SilentVerse so because nidoqueen doesn't automatically 6-0 a team by it's own
- 13:02 SilentVerse doesn't mean it's broken
- 13:02 Texas nidoqueen cannot sweep most of the tier with little or no effort on its own
- 13:03 Texas would you say that is a false statement?
- 13:03 SilentVerse it sweeps most of the tier
- 13:03 SilentVerse with little or no effort
- 13:04 SilentVerse lol
- 13:04 Texas really?
- 13:04 SilentVerse and it supports offensive teams
- 13:04 Texas pick a pokemon that its faster than
- 13:04 SilentVerse but providing enough support to pressure defensive teams
- 13:04 SilentVerse tangrowth
- 13:04 Texas pick the ones slower then it that check it
- 13:04 Texas err sorry, thats faster than it
- 13:04 Texas is what i meant to say
- 13:05 Texas the majority of things faster than it, roughly 40-50% of the tier can KO it
- 13:05 Texas a smaller percentage of things slower than it
- 13:05 Texas say 5% will wall it
- 13:05 Texas say 10% of things slower than it can take a hit and KO back but will be 2HKOd
- 13:06 Texas by no logical reasoning does nidoqueen sweep through the majority of the metagame with little effort
- 13:06 SilentVerse so what you're saying is
- 13:06 SilentVerse "fuk stall / defensive balance"
- 13:06 SilentVerse bitch please, just use offense
- 13:07 Texas if the metagame with nidoqueen in it is more conducive to using offense then more people will use that
- 13:07 Texas if the metagame without nidoqueen in it is more conducive to defensive balance / stall more people will use that
- 13:07 Texas there is no "right" metagame
- 13:08 Texas which is why you HAVE to evaluate Nidoqueen bsed on its own merits
- 13:11 SilentVerse except
- 13:11 SilentVerse the key difference between the metagames
- 13:11 SilentVerse is the difference in viability
- 13:11 SilentVerse between certain teamstyles
- 13:11 SilentVerse i have no doubt that a metagame without nidoqueen
- 13:11 SilentVerse will have every type of teamstyle be at least viable
- 13:11 SilentVerse like
- 13:11 SilentVerse nidoqueen has just singlehandedly
- 13:12 SilentVerse eradicated defensive balanced / stall
- 13:12 SilentVerse and even stuff like
- 13:12 SilentVerse trick room
- 13:12 SilentVerse which were once incredibly effective
- 13:12 Texas you cannot attribute tr to queen
- 13:12 SilentVerse yes
- 13:12 SilentVerse you can
- 13:12 Texas that was solely cofags domain
- 13:12 SilentVerse even with cofag
- 13:12 SilentVerse tr was dying
- 13:12 SilentVerse because nidoqueen utterly demolished it
- 13:12 SilentVerse single-handedly
- 13:12 Texas lol
- 13:13 Texas slowking, druddigon, aggron
- 13:13 Texas common tr sweepers that demolish queen
- 13:13 SilentVerse 2hkoed
- 13:13 Texas cofag, sets up in its face
- 13:13 SilentVerse queen is killing like 2-3 mons at least
- 13:13 SilentVerse nope, 2hkoed
- 13:13 SilentVerse just switch queen in on aggron on the last turn of tr
- 13:13 Texas tr is up
- 13:13 Texas irrelevant
- 13:13 SilentVerse and see how many issues tr has recovering from it
- 13:13 SilentVerse no
- 13:13 SilentVerse tr lasts
- 13:13 SilentVerse for 3 turns basically
- 13:13 Texas you said cofag is 2hkod
- 13:14 Texas what does it care
- 13:14 Texas it set up tr and weakened queen
- 13:14 SilentVerse my point is
- 13:14 SilentVerse NOTHING
- 13:14 SilentVerse can switch in on nidoqueen
- 13:14 Texas mesprit
- 13:14 SilentVerse to get cofag in safely to set up tr again in the first place
- 13:14 SilentVerse you have to sac something
- 13:14 SilentVerse 2hkoed
- 13:14 Texas prediction
- 13:14 SilentVerse ah yes
- 13:14 SilentVerse nidoqueen is always going to make the most obvious moves
- 13:14 Texas ah yes
- 13:14 SilentVerse arguably the best told me
- 13:14 SilentVerse *tournament player
- 13:14 Texas queen is always predicting perfectly
- 13:15 SilentVerse that if you are in the position to have to predict
- 13:15 SilentVerse you are losing
- 13:15 Texas wouldn't disagree witht hat statemtn; but that inherently assumes that the queen player is always winning
- 13:15 SilentVerse no
- 13:15 SilentVerse but the queen player
- 13:15 SilentVerse has the inherent advantage here
- 13:15 Texas if queen never has to predict then yes it does assume that
- 13:16 SilentVerse it doesn't really have to
- 13:16 SilentVerse it's not hard to weaken mesprit
- 13:16 Texas lets assume we have queen vs cofag
- 13:16 SilentVerse no
- 13:16 SilentVerse why the fuck
- 13:16 Texas are you really sludge waving that cofag?
- 13:16 SilentVerse would you do that
- 13:16 SilentVerse unless you are in on the last turn of tr
- 13:16 SilentVerse you're not gonna sludge wave
- 13:16 SilentVerse however, you are gonna
- 13:16 SilentVerse fire blast
- 13:16 SilentVerse because that + ep probably 2hkoes
- 13:17 Texas terrible probability management there
- 13:17 SilentVerse lol
- 13:17 Texas why open yourself up to the possiblity of a miss
- 13:17 Texas when you arent even guaranteed to get a 2hko
- 13:17 SilentVerse yes
- 13:17 SilentVerse you are
- 13:17 SilentVerse .
- 13:18 SilentVerse there is literally
- 13:18 SilentVerse very little risk to fire blast / flamethrower first
- 13:18 SilentVerse to catch the potential mesprit switch in
- 13:18 SilentVerse instead of letting it switch in for free
- 13:19 Texas is it necessary to argue about queen every day >_>
- 13:19 Texas i dont think either of us are changing our opinions
- 13:19 SilentVerse yes
- 13:19 SilentVerse
- 13:19 SilentVerse troo
- 13:19 SilentVerse but the point of these arguments
- 13:19 SilentVerse is that
- 13:19 Texas yeah but i have to shower before a teammate does an spl battle
- 13:20 SilentVerse queen shifts the metagame and outright makes certain teamstyles almost unviable
- 13:20 Texas can we please discard shifting the metagame as a legitimate argument
- 13:20 Texas its literally the most pointless thing
- 13:20 SilentVerse fine
- 13:20 SilentVerse but can we
- 13:20 SilentVerse say making certain playstyles almost unviable
- 13:21 Texas like what do you think would happen if houndoom drops down
- 13:21 SilentVerse is a perfectly legitimate argument
- 13:21 SilentVerse obviously
- 13:21 SilentVerse it is to the extent it shifts the metagame that matters however
- 13:21 SilentVerse but ok w/e, not gonna go on that train of that
- 13:21 Texas making certain playstyles almost unviable
- 13:21 SilentVerse *thought
- 13:21 Texas is legitimate if you can empirically support that they are in fact unviable
- 13:22 Texas ima afk now
- 13:23 SilentVerse kk
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