Very noble Christians

james_-
Trump being banned from Twitter is a bitter pill for him to swallow, it's seriously probably as painful as losing the presidency because of how emotionally attached he is to Twitter
MercedezGuy-
ross
james_-
Trump derives his identity and personal meaning by being on that
23:26 MercedezGuy-
so many women here missed you
23:26 MercedezGuy-
welcome back Ross
innit
james_-: I hope that he is suffering very greatly.
EricofAZ
I don't wish suffering on anyone
MercedezGuy-
Ross
23:28 MercedezGuy-
can i pray for you to sleep
MercedezGuy-
lol
innit
I wish suffering on bad people.
innit
It creates accountability and justicee.
innit
justice*
23:29 EricofAZ
justice in courts creates accountability and justice.
EricofAZ
not wishing suffering
23:29 EricofAZ
!niv Amos 5:15
innit
Most people who say they don't wish suffering on anyone generally end up excusing extremely powerful and bad people.
innit
EricofAZ: Not all bad things are illegal.
peep^21 has left ()
innit
To pretend that only courts can create justice is obviously incorrect.
innit
For most humans, courts will never create anything for them.
EricofAZ
hate evil (which would be the opposite of wishing suffering on others), love good (which would be the same) maintain justice in the courts (which would be the proper way of doing things)
innit
By restricting justice to courts, you're restricting justice to only stable societies with fair courts.
innit
In American courts, rich and powerful people are almost never held accountable.
innit
So this entire court-argument ends up being, in reality, an excuse for extremely powerful and bad people.
innit
Justice, as a concept, predates the mechanism of courts.
EricofAZ
as Biden says, it is about the rule of law. That is for the courts.
james_-
he is definitely suffering greatly from not being allowed on Twitter
james_-
it's like being deprived of a drug
innit
EricofAZ: Rule of law only works in stable societies with functional legal systems.
innit
To date, Trump has received almost no sanctions from courts.
innit
EricofAZ: Can you name a consequence Trump has so far received from a court?
EricofAZ
innit, and despite the theatrics, USA is a stable society.
EricofAZ
innit, give it time
innit
EricofAZ: There was a violent coup led by the POTUS two days ago.
innit
EricofAZ: So, your Savior Courts have not created any justice yet, but I should just wait.
james_-
he hasn't suffered any consequences while being president, but he's had to settle some large court cases, such as his fraudulent university
EricofAZ
innit, give it time
innit
"Justice delayed is justice denied."
innit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_delayed_is_justice_denied
EricofAZ
courts don't convene and resolve in two days
innit
"Justice delayed is justice denied" is a legal maxim. It means that if legal redress or equitable relief to an injured party is available, but is not forthcoming in a timely fashion, it is effectively the same as having no remedy at all.
innit
EricofAZ: Some of Trump's crimes are from the 1970s.
innit
Some are from the 1980s.
innit
Some are from the 1990s.
innit
Some are from the 2000s.
innit
Some are from the 2010s.
james_-
he had an attorney general who said that a sitting president cannot be indicted, so of course he's skated free so far
innit
Some are from 2 days ago.
innit
I have stopped engaging EricofAZ, as they're not interested in justice in reality.
innit
I wish a great deal of suffering upon Trump. I hope it utterly destroys every aspect of his being.
innit
Part of that suffering should be administered by courts, if they ever show up.
james_-
he's going to be in court for much of the rest of his life, over tax fraud issues
innit
Some of it should be administered by ritual, society-wide humiliation.
innit
Like being banned from Twitter.
innit
james_-: That is an incorrect history.
james_-
what is an incorrect history?
innit
The unitary executive theory is a white supremacist, autocratic theory that has been metastasizing in American 'democracy' for decades.
james_-
Trump will be humiliated when he has many of his properties foreclosed
innit
It posits the entire Executive branch -- with several million employees -- is all an extension of the POTUS.
james_-
he's going to end up being a loser with very little money
innit
In the 1970s, Richard Nixon's VP, Spiro Agnew, was obviously guilty of serious crimes.
innit
The DOJ, part of the Executive, wish to clarify what the rules were on indicting a VP.
innit
As part of that process, a memo was drafted by the DOJ that clarified, in the DOJ's understanding as part of the Executive, the VP could most definitely be indicted, but the POTUS could not be.
innit
This memo has been interpreted of facilitating a proximal goal -- accountability for a shockingly corrupt VP -- by ensuring a more powerful person -- the POTUS -- was free from accountability.
james_-
I only brought up the Twitter thing with Trump because it's interesting how social media can have this deep emotional and psychological effect on people, and it clearly has on Trump, being denied it is almost a worse fate than losing the presidency
innit
This memo has never been tested in federal court -- a necessity as part of the American legal system.
innit
So, currently, the Executive has asserted the Executive can't be prosecuted by itself.
innit
This is meaningless.
innit
William Barr, as a long-term bootlicker for autocracy upheld the standard DOJ interpretation of that memo.
innit
William Barr was an invalid AG and his opinions mean nothing.
innit
The correct course of action is for the POTUS to be indicted and for the federal judiciary to decide if the POTUS can be indicted.
james_-
i don't think a president will be indicted unless the AG signs off on it
innit
“What is it you wanted me to reconcile myself to? I was born here, almost 60 years ago. I’m not going to live another 60 years. You always told me ‘It takes time.’ It’s taken my father’s time, my mother’s time, my uncle’s time, my brothers’ and my sisters’ time. How much time do you want for your progress?”
innit
-James Baldwin
james_-
that's why there's also impeachment options
innit
In a functioning rule of law, contrary to EricofAZ's assertions, Trump would have been indicted years to decades before running for President in 2015.
innit
He is guilty of innumerable financial crimes, for example.
innit
That we're "waiting" in 2021 means the system is broken and unstable.
innit
This is far too painful for the white moderate to accept.
innit
So they tell extremely transparent deceptions to get through the day.
innit
However, these delusions do not work with pesky people on IRC showing you your delusions are false.
innit
And so you become psychologically motivated to say things like 'America is a stable society' two days after there was a violent coup the objective of which was the murder the VP and dozens of members of Congress.
innit
America is an extremely sick society.
innit
It has cancer in its bones.
innit
And that cancer is in the brains of many of its citizens, too.
innit
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" th
innit
an to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a
innit
"more convenient season."
innit
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
innit
james_-: How do you impeach a seditious president when his party controls the Senate?
innit
(The framers of the US Constitution failed to anticipate this one.)
innit
"'We are now faced with the fact that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history, there is such a thing as being too late. This is no time for apathy or complacency. This is a time for vigorous and positive action.'"
innit
--Martin Luther King, Jr.
innit
"give it time" - EricofAZ, 2021-01-09, days after Trump attempted to murder much of the leadership of the American republic
james_-
innit, the framers of the constitution figured the senate would not be so partisan, especially because the constitution had it that state legislatures picked senators, thus removing, by one degree, the partisanship that comes from direct elections from the people
james_-
then the 17th Ammendment came along
innit
james_-: Also, the Framers anticipated we'd recreate the Constitution every 14-17 years.
innit
They'd be aghast we're using the same document.
innit
Also, there's no reason to think people from the 18th century can possibly think of everything.
innit
The point is that justice is a synthesis of impulse control vis-a-vis historical knowledge, as EricofAZ said, and urgent action brought on by knowledge outside of failed systems, as I am saying.
innit
You can go deadly wrong if you do too much or too little of either in different contexts.
innit
I don't need any court to tell me that Trump is a traitorous goon who should be crushed by the American republic.
innit
On principles of just war and self-defensed argued by Augustin, Doctor of the Church, any human in the world can use violence on Trump as he has already murdered many, many people.
innit
It would be nice if courts also recognized this, but that assumes courts are free and fair and stable, which they're often not.
innit
Augustine*
innit
I don't know if the ideas of Christians like Augustine or Martin Luther King, Jr. carry much weight 'round these parts, though.
james_-
that was to ward off the godless commies of the 50s :)
innit
No system ever devised has anticipated all contexts you'll find yourself in. All systems are partial guidebooks, not final works. If you need the book to tell you everything to do, you're gonna find yourself lost in many important situations.
innit
Trump is currently guilty of at least 350k cases of negligent homicide in regards to COVID-19.
innit
Perhaps we should give those people time, as EricofAZ suggested.
innit
Oh, wait, they're dead forever.
innit
Maybe their lives don't matter as much as one traitorous goon that hates his country with his whole heart.
innit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria
innit
Trump literally murdered that guy in Iran because he was seeking peace.
innit
Literally.
james_-
badwolf, the fact guy in that video kind of represents how the founding fathers viewed the pelbian masses
innit
That he was seeking peace destabilized claims of power by the USA and Israel, and so they murdered a guy seeking peace to keep war alive.
innit
Trump also likely signed off on the murder of Khashoggi.
innit
"give it time"
james_-
the founding fathers weren't too keen on direct democracy, or much of any democracy.  They were rather elitists
james_-
fact guy = fat guy lol
innit
"Think how stupid the average person is, then realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
innit
The ideal form of government synthesizes authoritarian rule based of expertise alongside democracy and variation.
innit
The correct ratios in all contexts is knowledge not yet acquired by Homo sapiens.
burtburgler
ah Ross
innit
All Western states currently synthesize authoritarian expertise alongside democracy.
innit
For example, nobody gets a vote on the FDA's methodology for approving vaccines, nor should they.
james_-
technocrats have always been a thing in the usa, they are most under threat during populist waves, such as we're seeing now
innit
Technocracy has fatal flaws, as does populism.
innit
Populism helped create COVID-19, for example.
innit
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
innit
--Isaac Asimov
james_-
the u.s. meddles in places all over the world, such that the sun never sets in the places where we have or currently are meddling.  So in that sense the u.s. does have a british-style empire
burtburgler
hey Ross
burtburgler
i support the storm
burtburgler
btw
innit
burtburgler: Are you a Trump supporter?
burtburgler
#supportthestorm
burtburgler
no
burtburgler
i am not
innit
burtburgler: What storm are you referencing?
burtburgler
i am a storm supporter
james_-
plus, there's no motive to formally colonize nations all over the world when multinational corporations are the new thing of the 21st century
burtburgler
you know what storm ;)
innit
burtburgler: I put you on block for the rest of your life.
innit
Thank you for identifying yourself as a goon.
james_-
just because burt is bored and why not
james_-
what does that have to do with supporting it?
innit
https://i.imgur.com/DCz5Eft.jpg

james_-
they want white supremacy, nothing more
innit
Correct.
james_-
the last 4 years have revealed that the right is full of it, all their talk about free speech, states' rights, law and order, originalism, support the blue, blah blah blah is all a sham and is only invoked when it's convenient, only in support of white supremacy
james_-
Ross, yet he has completely gobbled up and subsumed the right wing in america
james_-
half of republicans support the stroming of the u.s. capitol
innit
https://i.imgur.com/YRQUkkc.png

james_-
the right in america always had fascist tendencies
innit
james_-: The American right is a white supremacist, fascist cult.
james_-
Ross, yes that's before the parties flipped on racial issues
james_-
there was this thing called the 1960s and the Civil Rights Act and then the Republican Southern Strategy and the subsequent flipping of the parties, so to claim that the KKK are a democratic invention is rather disingenuous
innit
james_-: Ross doesn't care about anything you're saying.
innit
They're only interested in pure copium.
james_-
the folks carrying Confederate flags through the Capitol building on Wednesday certainly weren't Democrats or Independents
james_-
of course they were republicans, the whole insurrectionist fascist coup attempt were republicans
innit
"The real slaveowners are the blacks." - Ross, if he was born in 1824
james_-
a poll came out the next day in which half of the republicans supported the fascist coup attempt
james_-
hardly, it is the libertarian end of the republican party that are anarchists, those who don't believe in any government
james_-
same with the Sovereign Citizens, those folks sure don't vote Democratic
innit
*Christians behaving in ways that merit only disrespect*
innit
*regular people disrespect Christians*
innit
*Christian shock face*
james_-
not in america, we have this thing called voting, so if you don't like the enslaving taxes, you can vote the politicians out, as per our constituion, the thing that the republicans two days ago spat on with their hijinx
james_-
if the dems raise taxes, either they will be punished for it by being voted out, or, enough people will see the benefits from the increase in taxes to vote to keep them in power
james_-
Eric, I think many years from now we'll have a better perspective on how close we came to losing our democracy, thanks to the Republican party
innit
@ Ross  14:07:48
innit
i have yet to hear a liberal tell us a valid reason why the poor, tired, hungry huddle masses of the world must come to the usa  to live on the public welfare rolls
innit
james_-: What are you doing.
innit
+ innit  14:08:04
innit
Ross: Because Jesus demands it.
innit
@ Ross  14:08:11
innit
lol
james_-
Ross, actually it's the opposite, the Republican party is all entirely bought off by the corporations, they buy the vote with lying and deceptive adds paid for by corporations
innit
He literally typed "lol" after I cited Jesus.
innit
C'mon, guy.
innit
where's that in the bible
innit
+ innit  14:08:24
innit
If we don't accept immigrants, then Jesus won't accept us into heaven.
innit
@ Ross  14:08:33
innit
lol
innit
He literally typed "lol" in response to me citing the Gospels.
james_-
Eric, it was only because of the stability of the military, and enough career civil servants who still feel a sense of duty to the usa and the constitution that saved our democracy, for the time being
innit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sheep_and_the_Goats
innit
Citing Jesus in Matthew made Ross type "lol".
innit
"I was a stranger, and you took me in" - Jesus
innit
"lol" - Ross
deRuyter
the Parables were often ment as 'comic relief'
innit
james_-: Does this evidence I'm providing you mean anything to you?
innit
If not, I'll stop providing evidence to you.
innit
deRuyter: It's all a big joke, apparently.
innit
“Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in;
james_-
we were talking about Technocrats earlier, but one good reason to not have different departments totally staffed by political appointees or elections, but rather staffed by career civil servants, is precisely to avoid coups
innit
“The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn
innit
’t take me in;
innit
If you don't house immigrants, Jesus condemns you to hell.
james_-
innit, sorry I'm distracted with other conversations
innit
james_-: I will re-engage you on Feb 1.
innit
The love of evidence you demonstrated in this encounter was insufficient for my respect.
EricofAZ has changed mode: -v burtburgler
innit
"Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself"
innit
"lol" - some Christians