NU Workshop

14:42:19 |c|%HJAD|/announce NU WORKSHOP ON STALL AND ANTI STALL BEGIN
14:42:36 |c|%HJAD|/announce BEGINS WITH SENABLE
14:42:46 |c|&Hollywood|idc
14:42:48 |c|%HJAD|/announce HE WILL EXPLAIN COMMON STALL CORES
14:42:52 |c|#Redew|omg HJAD
14:42:56 |c|%brawlfest|no caps pls
14:42:57 |c|%brawlfest|._.
14:42:58 |c|#Redew|you dont have to cap/wall everything 9/9
14:43:00 |c|%brawlfest|hurts my eyes
14:43:03 |c|%HJAD|/announce and why it is effective
14:43:04 |c|%Aladyyn|:DDDDDD
14:43:11 |c|&Hollywood|rly tho no one else can talk anyways lol
14:43:12 |c|%HJAD|go senable!
14:43:13 |c|@Xylen|ok lets let the host talk now
14:43:16 |c|%senable|Hi all, I'm going to begin by talking about some good defensive cores in NU right now
14:43:19 |c|%HJAD|^^
14:43:31 |c|%senable|One of the more common stall cores right now in NU is Ferroseed + Dragalge
14:43:42 |c|%senable|The two of them synergize very well due to typing
14:43:57 |c|%senable|Ferroseed has an amazing defensive typing that resists 11 types
14:44:02 |c|%senable|and provides 1 immunity
14:44:13 |c|%senable|What it is weak to is fighting and fire type attacks
14:44:25 CherubAgent was promoted to Room Driver by Hollywood.
14:44:26 |c|%senable|this is where Dragalge can come in to patch up that weakness
14:44:29 |c|&Hollywood|oh wait
14:44:34 CherubAgent was promoted to Room Moderator by Hollywood.
14:44:42 |c|%senable|by resisting them with its poison / dragon typing
14:44:44 |c|@CherubAgent|:)
14:44:49 |c|%Aladyyn|*ferro resists 9 types, just clarifying
14:45:00 |c|%Aladyyn|(not dark and ghost)
14:45:11 |c|%senable|my bad, forgot about the steel type nerf
14:45:12 |c|%Expulso|continue please, sewable :)
14:45:15 |c|%senable|9 types is correct
14:45:15 |c|%Expulso|*senable
14:45:41 |c|%senable|this is a flexible core in that you can make Ferroseed specially defensive and Dragalge physically defensive
14:45:46 |c|%senable|or vice versa
14:46:03 |c|%senable|Between the two you have access to all forms of entry hazards
14:46:12 |c|%Expulso|(except sticky web)
14:46:33 |c|%senable|Both Ferroseed and Dragalge can deter / punish moves that make contact
14:46:39 |c|%senable|which are mainly physical attacks
14:46:44 |c|%senable|via their abilities
14:46:56 |c|%senable|Stall is all about wearing opposing teams down with residual damage
14:47:04 |c|%senable|so they are very helpful in the regard
14:47:25 |c|%senable|This core does face difficulty in switching in to powerful ground / ice type attacks
14:47:47 |c|%senable|so a good partner is Assault Vest Hariyama
14:48:23 |c|%senable|which can take Ice Type attacks such as Freeze Dry due to thick fat
14:48:57 |c|%senable|Cryogonal is also a great partner as it resists ice and is immune to ground
14:49:23 |c|%senable|Seismitoad is a fantastic partner for the core since it shares great type synergy with Ferroseed
14:49:37 |c|%senable|It can use Knock Off to remove key items such as Leftovers and Eviolite
14:49:56 |c|%senable|which really helps in racking up residual damage and wearing teams down
14:50:17 |c|%senable|The next defensive core I want to talk about is Audino + Tangela
14:50:38 |c|%senable|These Pokemon synergize well due to their abilities
14:50:54 |c|%senable|Regenerator makes them hard to wear down as they can switch to heal up
14:51:12 |c|%senable|They also have relatively reliable forms of recovery in Synthesis and Wish
14:51:39 |c|%senable|Tangela has great physical bulk and Audino has great special bulk
14:52:04 |c|%senable|which lets them cover each others weaknesses quite well
14:52:22 |c|%senable|Tangela provides team support via Leech seed and status
14:52:41 |c|%senable|and Audino can support the team by acting as a cleric and passing wishes
14:52:57 |c|%senable|The drawback to this core is that both Pokemon have poor offensive presense
14:53:13 |c|%senable|This means they can be used as set up fodder by a bunch of Pokemon in the tier
14:53:28 |c|%senable|Thus a partner to Phaze / haze is appreciated
14:53:52 |c|%senable|Steelix deserves mention since it can take poison, flying, and bug type attacks that Tangela may struggle with
14:53:59 |c|%senable|and can phaze with Roar / Dragon tail
14:54:16 |c|%senable|This core is also weak to entry hazards
14:54:36 |c|%senable|as the Pokemon depend on switching around to make full use of their abilities
14:54:55 |c|%senable|Hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes will put pressure on the switches
14:55:12 |c|%senable|and Hazard Control in NU is slightly difficult
14:55:20 |c|%senable|as Spiritomb can easily spinblock against common spinners
14:55:53 |c|%senable|and defensive defoggers such as Togetic, Vullaby, Articuno, Pelliper, Prinplup
14:56:03 |c|%senable|all are Stealth Rock weak or lack reliable recovery
14:56:25 |c|%senable|The core also struggles with the move Knock Off
14:56:37 |c|%senable|since Tangela needs its Eviolite in order to reliably wall threats
14:57:15 |c|%senable|The next core I'd like to mention is Lickilicky + Weezing
14:57:42 |c|%senable|Weezing's great Defense stat lets it take physical attacks with ease while Lickilicky can easily take Special attacks
14:58:00 |c|%senable|Lickilicky's pure normal typing means it is only weak to fighting, a weakness that Weezing can cover very well
14:58:15 |c|%senable|Both have a way to check set up sweepers with Weezing being able to Haze
14:58:25 |c|%senable|and Lickilicky being able to use the move Dragon Tail to phaze
14:58:50 |c|%senable|Both also have semi-reliable recovery in Pain Split and Wish
14:59:20 |c|%senable|The Drawback to this core is that although their typings when combined together don't have a lot of weaknesses
14:59:23 |c|%senable|They also don't have too many resistances
14:59:47 |c|%senable|as such, strong neutral attacks coming from Pokemon such as Choice Specs Typhlosion
14:59:51 |c|%senable|can easily dismantle the core
15:00:13 |c|%senable|The last core I'd like to mention is Seismitoad + Vileplume
15:00:30 |c|%Aladyyn|(sawk destroys both licky and weezing so watch out)
15:00:38 |c|%senable|Seismitoad and Vileplume from a very solid defensive core as their typings allow them to cover each others weaknesses
15:01:05 |c|%senable|Seismitoad can take special attacks except for 4x super effect grass type attacks which Vileplume can cover
15:01:32 |c|%senable|the fire type attacks that Seismitoad struggles with
15:01:49 |c|%senable|The core is able to fill multiple roles
15:02:15 |c|%senable|Seismitoad is a reliable Stealth Rock user and Vileplume is a great support Pokemon with access to moves such as Aromatherapy and Sleep Powder
15:02:47 |c|%senable|Weaknesses to this core are Psychic, flying and ice type attacks
15:03:00 |c|%senable|as it lacks resistances to these types of attacks
15:03:09 |c|%brawlfest|Freeze Dry to note
15:03:11 |c|%brawlfest|is SE on both mons
15:03:22 |c|%senable|Yes, Seismitoad can take neutral ice attacks
15:03:40 |c|%senable|but Freeze-Dry is a ice type moves that hits water types super effectively
15:03:56 |c|%senable|and will hit Seismitoad for 4x super effective damage
15:04:21 |c|%senable|The core is also weak to Fire types that have HP grass such as Magmortor
15:05:11 |c|%senable|A steel type such as Steelix is a good partner
15:05:15 |c|%senable|as it can cover the Psychic / flying weakness
15:05:29 |c|%senable|and something like Assault Vest Hariyama can sponge Ice Type attacks
15:06:31 |c|%senable|I hope these cores can assist you in building teams
15:06:40 |c|%HJAD|thanks senable!
15:06:44 |c|%HJAD|former #1 on nu ladder
15:06:50 |c|%HJAD|current #14
15:06:56 |c|%HJAD|on of the best stallers around
15:06:59 |c|%HJAD|right
15:07:16 |c|%HJAD|now if ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS
15:07:21 |c|%Expulso|/announce If you have any questions, ask MegaFairyFlareon!
15:07:31 |c|%Aladyyn|PUT THEM IN ALL CAPS
15:07:35 |c|%Expulso|oh sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you lol
15:07:38 |c|%HJAD|/announce Pm MegaFairyFlareon, the best ones will be answered live
15:07:52 |c|%HJAD|and your glory will be allover the room
15:07:53 |c|%brawlfest|MFF is about to be PM swarmd js
15:08:02 |c|%HJAD|its fine
15:08:05 |c|%HJAD|he likes it :3
15:08:09 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|BidoofGotSwag: What are the best stall breakers in the tier?
15:08:19 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|are we covering that now?
15:08:24 |c|%brawlfest|Should we all answer?
15:08:27 |c|%brawlfest|or is it just Senable
15:08:30 |c|%HJAD|later in the show
15:08:44 |c|%HJAD|ok
15:08:53 |c|%HJAD|now we turn our attention to Brawlfest
15:08:57 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|but
15:08:59 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|i have more
15:09:00 |c|%HJAD|another former #1 on the ladder
15:09:10 |c|%brawlfest|Ladder peaks mean nothing ._.
15:09:11 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|i'll just get them all at once
15:09:18 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|Hi_Im_A_Magikarp: would infestation be a good move for tangela
15:09:20 |c|%brawlfest|Mega just save them
15:09:23 |c|%HJAD|^
15:09:24 |c|%Expulso|mff
15:09:26 |c|%Expulso|save the questions
15:09:27 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|sure
15:09:43 |c|%brawlfest|Regardless, I'll be talking about Teambuilding stall in NU today
15:09:43 |c|%Expulso|ty :)
15:09:44 |c|%HJAD|He will explain why certain stall teams function as effectively as they do?
15:09:49 |c|%brawlfest|Stall didn't fair well in the change from BW to XY
15:09:50 |c|%HJAD|!*
15:09:54 |c|%brawlfest|Teambuilding + Stall Teams
15:10:00 |c|%brawlfest|lol Hjad
15:10:05 |c|%brawlfest|Regardless
15:10:09 |c|@Xylen|((Have the q&a after the session))
15:10:16 |c|%brawlfest|Stall received a overall nerf in the generation switch in NU
15:10:22 |c|%brawlfest|Unlike higher tiers
15:10:35 |c|%brawlfest|NU Stall has always been overly reliant on residual damage and their items
15:10:39 |c|%brawlfest|in order to beat opponents
15:10:49 |c|%brawlfest|as a result, the introduction of moves such as Defog and Knock Off
15:10:54 |c|%brawlfest|has severely crippled stall on the whole
15:11:05 |c|%brawlfest|making it a lot more difficult to use some of the toughest walls in the metagame
15:11:09 |c|%brawlfest|due to their reliance of eviolite
15:11:31 |c|%brawlfest|In terms of working with stall however in NU
15:11:32 |c|%brawlfest|it is still possible
15:11:44 |c|%brawlfest|To just make a quick review
15:11:50 |c|%brawlfest|let us ask ourselves what stall really is
15:12:07 |c|%brawlfest|simply put, it is the use of six defensively oriented pokemon
15:12:12 |c|%brawlfest|which have a tendancy to
15:12:17 |c|%brawlfest|a) damage through residual damage
15:12:34 |c|%brawlfest|b) have access to relatively good bulk / typing, oftentimes alongside recovery
15:12:51 |c|%brawlfest|however, stall is not often comprised of pokemon like this
15:12:59 |c|%brawlfest|I very well know most of you can throw 6 walls together
15:13:06 |c|%brawlfest|but I also want to point out the other face of stall
15:13:19 |c|%brawlfest|stall can oftentimes use faster pokemon alongside your common staples
15:13:31 |c|%brawlfest|in order to maximise effectivity.
15:13:46 |c|%brawlfest|An example could be taunt liepard
15:13:56 |c|%brawlfest|Lieaprd
15:14:02 |c|%brawlfest|is extremely known in Nu for fraility
15:14:19 |c|%brawlfest|however, Taunt Liepard can often beat out some stallbreakers
15:14:23 |c|%brawlfest|and its support in a rather strong knock off
15:14:31 |c|%brawlfest|alongside the defensive backbone and hazards stall often supports
15:14:35 |c|%brawlfest|makes for a winning combination
15:14:49 |c|%brawlfest|another example of a rather offenisve pokemon that works well on stall is Archeops
15:15:00 |c|%brawlfest|Archeops is a great check to some of the tier's common stallbreaker's
15:15:07 |c|%brawlfest|such as Xatu or Mismagius
15:15:12 |c|%brawlfest|as it can easily outspeed and KO them
15:15:16 |c|%brawlfest|and with a fast taunt and roost
15:15:21 |c|%brawlfest|can also help to stall out opponents
15:15:29 |c|%brawlfest|and although it is not the bulkiest of pokemon
15:15:41 |c|%brawlfest|its ability to check certain opponents makes it valuable on any stall team
15:15:47 |c|%brawlfest|now that we have that through with
15:15:53 |c|%brawlfest|lets start looking at actual defensive pokemon
15:16:00 |c|%brawlfest|Senable pointed out some great cores
15:16:08 |c|%brawlfest|but Stall has many roles it needs to fullfill
15:16:23 |c|%brawlfest|as well as independant pokemon that often have good niches which can aid a stall team
15:16:31 |c|%brawlfest|These roles include but are not limited to
15:16:36 |c|%brawlfest|Wish Passers
15:16:39 |c|%brawlfest|Clerics
15:16:43 |c|%brawlfest|Stealth Rock Users
15:16:45 |c|%brawlfest|Spikes Users
15:16:49 |c|%brawlfest|Toxic Spikes Users
15:17:01 |c|%brawlfest|Rapid Spinners
15:17:03 |c|%brawlfest|Defoggers
15:17:03 |c|%brawlfest|Phazers
15:17:08 |c|%brawlfest|Pure Walls
15:17:11 |c|%brawlfest|SpinBlockers
15:17:18 |c|%brawlfest|Taunt Support
15:17:26 |c|%brawlfest|Bulky Setup Sweepers
15:17:28 |c|%brawlfest|as we can see
15:17:34 |c|%brawlfest|there are many roles that you can choose from
15:17:37 |c|%brawlfest|jsut for a single team
15:17:41 |c|%brawlfest|but when teambuilding for stall
15:17:46 |c|%brawlfest|you need to ahve a goal in mind
15:18:02 |c|%brawlfest|just because six absurdly bulky pokemon have "good defensive synergy"
15:18:10 |c|%brawlfest|does not necessarily make it a good stall team
15:18:14 |c|%brawlfest|although it is a key factor.
15:18:18 |c|%brawlfest|when we look at stall
15:18:19 |c|%brawlfest|we think
15:18:26 |c|%brawlfest|do we want to focus on hazards?
15:18:33 |c|%brawlfest|do we want to try to abuse status?
15:18:35 |c|%HJAD|annoying people :]
15:18:36 |c|%brawlfest|maybe both?
15:18:48 |c|%brawlfest|do we want to try to support a bulky calm mind user
15:18:53 |c|%brawlfest|like Musharna or CroTomb?
15:19:01 |c|%brawlfest|these are all ideas one must have in his or her mind
15:19:04 |c|%brawlfest|while stall teambuilding
15:19:20 |c|%Aladyyn|just his
15:19:20 |c|%brawlfest|regardless
15:19:38 |c|%brawlfest|lets take a look at four example teams
15:19:46 |c|%brawlfest|I've tried to make some teams that cover some of what you might consider the "stall spectrum"
15:19:47 |c|%HJAD|^all really good
15:19:56 |c|%brawlfest|so that you can get a feel for what a build might look like
15:20:04 |c|%brawlfest|http://pastebin.com/VNNbW5nd
15:20:08 |c|%HJAD|http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.n$VW6cOG1Dt/latest
15:20:16 |c|%HJAD|the 2nd one is a read only
15:20:19 |c|%brawlfest|this first one  I would like to show
15:20:33 |c|%brawlfest|combines status with CroTomb
15:20:45 |c|%brawlfest|while its often common to try to focus on hazards immediatly with most stall teams
15:21:06 |c|%brawlfest|this team moreso tries to spam toxic from Lanturn and Rhydon
15:21:21 |c|%brawlfest|and slowly wear down opponents with CroTomb's insane bulk
15:21:41 |c|%brawlfest|Alright
15:21:44 |c|%brawlfest|somebody just pm'd me
15:21:49 |c|%brawlfest|asking about crotomb's nature
15:21:52 |c|%brawlfest|of brave vs. bold
15:22:18 |c|%brawlfest|thats honestly preference but brave just minimizes gyro ball damage
15:22:19 |c|%brawlfest|since you arent outspeeding anything anyways
15:22:32 |c|%brawlfest|Bold tbh is superior in general
15:22:38 |c|%brawlfest|for minimizing Confusion + Foul Play
15:22:45 |c|%brawlfest|but I liked running brave at the time so sue me :]
15:23:01 |c|%brawlfest|facepalm
15:23:07 |c|%brawlfest|we want +def - spe relaxed
15:23:12 |c|%brawlfest|i just misclicked when building
15:23:19 |c|%brawlfest|anyways
15:23:35 |c|%brawlfest|CroTomb is an awesome mon to build around for stall for a couple of reasons
15:23:44 |c|%brawlfest|it is one of few sweepers that is not at all hindered by any status
15:23:48 |c|%brawlfest|inclusive of sleep and twave
15:24:04 |c|%brawlfest|its massive physical defense
15:24:10 |c|%brawlfest|ensures that it can set up calm minds reliably
15:24:15 |c|%brawlfest|and at +2  to +3
15:24:21 |c|%brawlfest|it is impossible to kill without a critical hit
15:24:29 |c|%brawlfest|pressure vs. infiltrator again is preferance
15:24:37 |c|%brawlfest|but i enjoy lowering shit like fire blast to 4 pp
15:24:40 |c|%brawlfest|when using Crotomb
15:24:54 |c|%brawlfest|over offensive tomb
15:24:55 |c|%brawlfest|in terms of the team
15:25:03 |c|%brawlfest|I immediatly realized that any SD or NP user
15:25:15 |c|%brawlfest|who could "out set-up" crotomb
15:25:21 |c|%brawlfest|would be a major issue
15:25:37 |c|%brawlfest|so I tried to look at the pokemon that typically give it trouble
15:25:51 |c|%brawlfest|In terms of common SD mons in the top tier
15:26:10 |c|%brawlfest|we are looking at Feraligatr, maybe a rare Samurott, and a Belly Drum Slurpuff
15:26:21 |c|%brawlfest|In order to deal with Feraligatr
15:26:35 |c|%brawlfest|I went with a physdef lantern [ice punch var]
15:26:42 |c|%brawlfest|and a physdef plume [return var]
15:26:47 |c|%brawlfest|which checks it rather nicely on the most part
15:26:56 |c|%brawlfest|BD Slurpuff is a little more tricky but the rule of thumb is
15:27:03 |c|%brawlfest|dont set up a freaking tomb when a slurpuff is around ._.
15:27:16 |c|%brawlfest|outside of that, the team is quite standard
15:27:32 |c|%brawlfest|defog togetic as the team is p hazard weak and doesnt worry about its own hazards leaving the field
15:27:44 |c|%brawlfest|audino is arguably NU's best wihs passer to ease Lanturn / Rhydon's damage taken
15:27:47 |c|%brawlfest|etc.
15:27:52 |c|%brawlfest|just overall a classic stall example
15:28:00 |c|%brawlfest|our next analysis
15:28:01 |c|%brawlfest|is
15:28:08 |c|%brawlfest|http://pastebin.com/bJH7DbuB
15:28:13 |c|%brawlfest|Bam
15:28:22 |c|%brawlfest|ok apparantly I use Tomb alot ._.
15:28:32 |c|%HJAD|stall itself is quite tomb happy
15:28:45 |c|%brawlfest|it is
15:28:58 |c|%brawlfest|CM Musharna would also work quite well in that slot
15:29:15 |c|%brawlfest|Regardless, this team is a lot more of a hazard reliant team
15:29:26 |c|%Aladyyn|(question from anon: where is your haze user? :x)
15:29:37 |c|%brawlfest|Haze isnt necessarily required
15:30:04 |c|%brawlfest|Its useful, but having a phazer or two
15:30:05 |c|%brawlfest|or having the necessary tools such as status to prevent setup
15:30:07 |c|%brawlfest|is often enough
15:30:22 |c|%brawlfest|anyways
15:30:42 |c|%brawlfest|this team is focused largely on the very common Dragalge / Ferroseed / Seismitoad core
15:30:55 |c|%brawlfest|which has essentially no common weaknesses
15:30:59 |c|%brawlfest|and is insanely difficult to break
15:31:07 |c|%brawlfest|Dragalge is an amazing phazer in the NU tier
15:31:20 |c|%brawlfest|as its Dragon Tail will only be immune by Fairy types
15:31:27 |c|%brawlfest|who do not want to switch into a Sludge Bomb anyways
15:31:49 |c|%brawlfest|The three together
15:31:58 |c|%brawlfest|supply hazards rather well, and support each others weaknesses
15:32:07 |c|%brawlfest|The Cryo variant Im using on this team
15:32:12 |c|%brawlfest|is not really the standard NU var
15:32:19 |c|%brawlfest|but its defense lets it take shit like Tomb pursuit better
15:32:27 |c|%brawlfest|and makes it more reliable as a whole on this team to spin
15:32:28 |c|%Expulso|no reflect n.n
15:32:36 |c|%brawlfest|eh reflect is weakling :[
15:32:54 |c|%brawlfest|Reflect and Haze can both be used over toxic btw
15:33:03 |c|%Aladyyn|(anon says: toxic does nothing for cryo :x)
15:33:16 |c|%brawlfest|lol
15:33:31 |c|%brawlfest|Lol just realized all four of my teams
15:33:32 |c|%brawlfest|have a crotomb
15:33:37 |c|%brawlfest|modifying last two brb
15:33:45 |c|%brawlfest|so that we can have some variaty
15:33:45 |c|%Expulso|crotomb is good guys
15:33:52 |c|%brawlfest|yeah moral of story is crotomb is good
15:34:16 |c|%brawlfest|2 min break everybody
15:34:16 |c|%Aladyyn|(anon says: cm xatu 6-0s the team if no haze)
15:34:17 |c|%brawlfest|i have the modifications i want just need to quickly change
15:35:49 |c|%brawlfest|alright
15:35:56 |c|%brawlfest|http://pastebin.com/VLKfLGzm
15:36:00 |c|%brawlfest|lets have a look at this team now
15:36:11 |c|%brawlfest|It actually looks rather odd doesn't it?
15:36:27 |c|%brawlfest|Surprisingly, I would argue that of the four teams it is one of the most effective
15:36:51 |c|%brawlfest|The team itself seems to contradict itself
15:36:59 |c|%brawlfest|using Defog Pelipper on a team with so many hazards
15:37:07 |c|%brawlfest|however, Pelipper not only has amazing synergy with the team
15:37:16 |c|%brawlfest|but also the team isn't 100% reliant on hazards
15:37:30 |c|%brawlfest|but is in fact rather weak to them
15:37:36 |c|%brawlfest|oftentimes people assume
15:37:40 |c|%brawlfest|hazards + defog = no
15:37:49 |c|%brawlfest|but if you can save your own hazards
15:37:53 |c|%brawlfest|and put them up only when needed
15:38:01 |c|%brawlfest|you can still use defog to control the "playing field" well
15:38:11 |c|%brawlfest|I personally would rather with this team
15:38:17 |c|%brawlfest|have neither side with spikes + rocks
15:38:24 |c|%brawlfest|than have both sides with them up
15:38:37 |c|%brawlfest|because residual damage can often be more detrimental to stall than offense
15:38:42 |c|%brawlfest|as you are the one trying to take the hit
15:39:06 |c|%brawlfest|however once you get rid of their hazards permanantly
15:39:07 |c|%brawlfest|feel free to set your own up and start racking up the damage
15:39:15 |c|%brawlfest|this team was originally built around a Camerupt + Pelipper core
15:39:31 |c|%brawlfest|and eventually developed into this
15:39:39 |c|%brawlfest|Slurpuff isn't as common as other wish passers
15:39:59 |c|%brawlfest|but its access to a sleep immunity and great fighting resist
15:40:00 |c|%brawlfest|helps the team
15:40:02 |c|%brawlfest|either way
15:40:05 |c|%brawlfest|CM Mush is a beast on stall
15:40:10 |c|%brawlfest|and people underrate it but its good
15:40:15 |c|%brawlfest|HJAD is a bully and is rushing me
15:40:17 |c|%brawlfest|so final team I guess
15:40:49 |c|%HJAD|:3
15:41:07 |c|%brawlfest|http://pastebin.com/msy0NSGf
15:41:14 |c|%brawlfest|Alright
15:41:21 |c|%brawlfest|This is truly hazard stall
15:41:27 |c|%brawlfest|you literally cannot get more hazard stall than this
15:41:27 |c|%HJAD|yey
15:41:31 |c|%brawlfest|Ive got phaze on Everything
15:41:35 |c|%brawlfest|cause phaze everything is good
15:41:52 |c|%brawlfest|This is what I am talking about with the liepard
15:41:55 |c|%brawlfest|as this team supports it with great hazards and wears the opponent down especially well
15:42:04 |c|%brawlfest|and this liepard can help to taunt opponents who are fucking with the team
15:42:07 |c|%brawlfest|inhibit setup
15:42:12 |c|%brawlfest|as well as clean up
15:42:22 |c|%brawlfest|overall it acts as an incredible gluemon despite its fraility
15:42:28 |c|%brawlfest|thanks for your time everybody, i hope i helped
15:42:33 |c|%brawlfest|sorry about the crotomb fetish
15:43:08 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|we all have our strange fetishes
15:43:11 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|don't mind it
15:43:17 |c|%HJAD|(btw crotomb counter is scrappy pangoro, if you have trouble with it use the panda)
15:43:25 |c|%Aladyyn|no fetish is strange enough
15:43:26 |c|%HJAD|also works nicely as a check
15:43:29 |c|%Aladyyn|but that's OT
15:43:29 |c|%brawlfest|NO
15:43:36 |c|%brawlfest|DONT TELL PEOPLE ABOUT PANDA EXPRESS
15:43:37 |c|%brawlfest|._.
15:43:43 |c|%brawlfest|now i cant use crotomb on the ladder gg
15:44:01 |c|%HJAD|right
15:44:10 |c|%HJAD|thanks to my bby brawlfest
15:44:27 |c|%HJAD|who taught us a decent lesson in nu tsall building
15:44:32 |c|%HJAD|ok i have a couple of shoutouts to mention
15:44:43 |c|%HJAD|one is mr Robert Alfons
15:44:52 |c|%HJAD|who had this question for us to answer:
15:45:01 |c|%HJAD|Robert Alfons: why does my penis grow when I touch it
15:45:01 |c|%HJAD|Robert Alfons: answer this live pls we need answers
15:45:02 |c|%HJAD|Robert Alfons: the audience demands it!
15:45:10 |c|%HJAD|ideas?
15:45:11 |c|%brawlfest|What
15:45:11 |c|%Aladyyn|I already answered him in pm
15:45:14 |c|@Xylen|guys no,
15:45:16 (Arikado notes: can you guys not do that)
15:45:16 |c|%Aladyyn|we can continue
15:45:17 |c|%Expulso|guys
15:45:18 |c|@Xylen|HJAD please dont
15:45:20 |c|%Expulso|.__.
15:45:23 |c|@Xylen|lets just move on
15:45:24 |c|%HJAD|tehe
15:45:25 |c|%HJAD|ok
15:45:26 |c|@Aerow|.
15:45:29 (Arikado notes: stick to the NU workshop sheet or outline you guys had)
15:45:30 |c|%HJAD|onto lgt questions
15:45:35 (Arikado notes: this should be professional)
15:45:38 |c|%Expulso|^
15:45:41 |c|%brawlfest|Yeah kinda should..
15:45:43 |c|%brawlfest|._.
15:45:44 |c|%brawlfest|wtf
15:45:47 |c|%HJAD|mff, has a couple that we should answer
15:45:51 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|QueenOfLuvdiscs: Why would Steelix be used as a good partner to VileToad exactly, as Magmortar still wrecks it?
15:46:05 |c|%Expulso|senable, brawlfest?
15:46:09 |c|%brawlfest|Magmortar wrecks everything
15:46:27 |c|%brawlfest|no but seriously
15:46:29 |c|%Aladyyn|camerupt does the same
15:46:37 |c|%brawlfest|i didnt say anything about it being a good partner
15:46:41 |c|%brawlfest|i think senable mentioned it
15:46:44 |c|%brawlfest|i think his main point
15:46:49 |c|%brawlfest|was that steel types to help the core a tad
15:46:52 |c|%brawlfest|with freeze dry
15:47:11 |c|%brawlfest|although for magmortar / evire / power herb camerupt
15:47:15 |c|%brawlfest|you would be looking for something more on the lines of Lickilicky
15:47:18 |c|%Expulso|[15:04:43] %senable: A steel type such as Steelix is a good partner
15:47:18 |c|%Expulso|[15:04:46] %senable: as it can cover the Psychic / flying weakness
15:47:26 |c|%brawlfest|who is never 2HKo'd by any of those really..
15:47:33 |c|%HJAD|not the magmortar weakness anyway
15:47:39 |c|%brawlfest|and passes gargantuan wishes out to VileToad
15:48:01 |c|%HJAD|ok next question:
15:48:05 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|next one?
15:48:07 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|I'm Bi...sharp: how does senable handle taunt when playing stall?
15:48:50 |c|%brawlfest|is senable here
15:48:55 |c|%HJAD|i dont think so
15:48:59 |c|%HJAD|he might be afk
15:49:07 |c|%senable|Sorry guys, stepped out for a minute
15:49:13 |c|%HJAD|i handle taunt by switching exuberantly
15:49:18 |c|%brawlfest|pressure them
15:49:19 |c|%senable|Taunt can be handled by pivoting around
15:49:24 |c|%brawlfest|pivoting + pressure
15:49:29 |c|%senable|and using attacking moves such as scald
15:49:33 |c|%senable|to wear down the taunt user
15:49:35 |c|%brawlfest|yupp
15:50:08 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|BidoofGotSwag: What are the best stall breakers in the tier
15:50:27 |c|%HJAD|in short:
15:50:32 |c|%HJAD|xatu, mortar and magius
15:50:38 |c|%brawlfest|thats not all..
15:50:38 |c|%HJAD|well have more on this
15:50:42 Nozzle was promoted to Room Voice by galbia.
15:50:44 |c|%HJAD|later in the programme
15:50:44 |c|%brawlfest|ill write a list right now
15:51:01 |c|%brawlfest|ill post in a bit when im done
15:51:04 |c|@Xylen|I have a question: what's some example of things stall must take note of?
15:51:04 |c|%Aladyyn|I think expulso or me will mention some more
15:51:05 |c|%HJAD|right, we move onto our next section
15:51:07 |c|@galbia|Hi people :]
15:51:13 |c|%Aladyyn|hey galbia :]
15:51:17 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|Undercover Donut: Is stall a playstyle you think people should get into or not and why?
15:51:57 |c|%HJAD|i personally dont mind a player who plays stall
15:52:07 |c|%senable|I mean, it's up to you which playstyle you enjoy but I think diversity is a good thing.
15:52:08 |c|%HJAD|i think its a matter of how it appeals to you
15:52:20 |c|%HJAD|if you play to win, use stall and think nothing of peoples complaints
15:52:32 |c|%brawlfest|Err hjad thats not good advice
15:52:45 |c|%brawlfest|In general Undercover Donut
15:52:46 |c|%brawlfest|i would say that Nu has a lot of viable playstyles
15:52:50 |c|%senable|Playing with Stall allows you to gain experience in learning how to handle Stall teams should you encounter them
15:52:50 |c|%brawlfest|and choosing one that fits you
15:52:53 |c|%Aladyyn|just use what you like
15:52:56 |c|%brawlfest|is what matters
15:52:58 |c|@Xylen|I have a question. what's some example of things stall must take note of?
15:53:04 |c|%Expulso|It takes a lot of skill to use stall well, in my opinion. However, using stall will give you a better understanding of the metagame; what threats there are to counter, how to get around stall's traditional counters, etc. It'll make you a better player, so I personally welcome it!
15:53:13 |c|%Expulso|However, use whatever you'd like :)
15:53:16 |c|%brawlfest|Xylen
15:53:26 |c|%HJAD|brawlfest mentioned it earlier iirc
15:53:34 |c|%brawlfest|NU Stall should definitely take care of a few things
15:53:35 |c|%brawlfest|in short
15:53:38 |c|%brawlfest|Hazard Control
15:53:51 |c|%brawlfest|Status Control
15:53:59 |c|%brawlfest|and Utility control
15:54:02 |c|%brawlfest|by which i mean
15:54:06 |c|%brawlfest|wish, taunt, heal bell, etc.
15:54:11 |c|%brawlfest|by controlling those
15:54:24 |c|%brawlfest|you essentially are able to play whatever stall substyle you wish
15:54:33 |c|%brawlfest|whether it be controlling to make sure hazards are OFF the field
15:54:36 |c|%brawlfest|or keeping your own up
15:54:42 |c|%brawlfest|stall also wants to make sure
15:54:46 |c|%brawlfest|it doesnt allow set-up
15:54:51 |c|%brawlfest|as its really the bane of stall
15:55:00 |c|%brawlfest|packing absurdly bulky pokemon isn't the answer
15:55:17 |c|%brawlfest|isntead, have status, phazing, haze, taunt, etc.
15:55:18 |c|%brawlfest|spread throughout your team
15:55:20 |c|%brawlfest|to try to minimize opportunities as much as possible
15:55:32 |c|@galbia|I don't agree on the fact that stall is hard to play because it is literally the easiest play style if you know the tier
15:55:44 |c|%brawlfest|Nah Omastar Offense is Galbia
15:55:46 |c|%brawlfest|lets be real
15:55:51 |c|@galbia|But it is probably the hardest to build
15:56:00 |c|%Aladyyn|it's not the hardest to build
15:56:19 |c|%senable|Building for stall is rather difficult in my opinion because it is literally impossible to cover every threat
15:56:20 |c|@galbia|A well built stall team can simply play it safe
15:56:27 |c|%senable|and so you have to pick what you're weak to
15:56:32 |c|%brawlfest|^
15:56:50 |c|%Aladyyn|you can cover most relevant threats
15:56:54 |c|%brawlfest|^
15:56:55 |c|@Xylen|also, can i request a battle to demonstrate stall?
15:57:04 |c|%Aladyyn|you just need to cover the most prominent ones
15:57:07 |c|%brawlfest|hmm alright QoL or Senable?
15:57:08 |c|@Xylen|i think its a good experience to show people
15:57:11 |c|%Expulso|Sure; we'll have that in the end, after we also cover offense
15:57:12 |c|%Aladyyn|like feraligatr, slurpuff, etc
15:57:14 |c|@galbia|I feel like stall can have a thougher time in nu than in the other tiers because the ladder is more likely to bring weird mons
15:57:16 |c|%HJAD|right, save the rest of your questions for after we finish:
15:57:19 |c|@galbia|That you don't prepare for
15:57:33 |c|%HJAD|we have to move onto the next section
15:57:41 |c|%Expulso|so we can have an offensive team and a stall team being "shown off" in the same battle, where people will understand both
15:58:25 |c|@galbia|The fact is that most of the time if your team is good you don't have to male plays to win and that's an huge pro of using stall especially on the ladder
15:58:25 |c|%HJAD|expulso, will now move onto the offensive part of the programme
15:58:37 |c|%HJAD|demonstarting how to beat stall
15:58:53 (galbia notes: is there a piratepad with the stuff that will be covered?)
15:58:56 |c|%HJAD|using an offensive play style
15:59:00 |c|%HJAD|ofc
15:59:08 (Expulso notes: I'm not actually demonstrating how to beat stall, I'm just running through offense in general)
15:59:13 |c|%HJAD|it will all be given at the end
15:59:18 |c|%HJAD|in a quick list
15:59:21 (galbia notes: use /modnote lol)
15:59:34 |c|%Expulso|Hey guys! I'll be covering how to play offense in XY NU.
16:00:06 |c|%Expulso|if you're asking why I'm doing this in a stall workshop: to play stall, you need an understanding of offense.
16:01:07 |c|%Expulso|Okay, so a good offensive team should be build around something; either an offensive core or a sweeper
16:01:47 |c|%Expulso|For the sake of an example, I'll say I'm building around Life Orb Barbaracle, with the move set Shell Smash / Razor Shell / Stone Edge / Cross Chop.
16:02:22 |c|%brawlfest|Oh kids
16:02:30 |c|%brawlfest|use Grass Knot > Cross Chop
16:02:38 |c|%brawlfest|js
16:02:43 |c|%Expulso|yeah that's generally better, but this is just an example n.n
16:02:44 |c|%brawlfest|sorry to interrupt continue :]
16:03:10 |c|%Expulso|You want to support this Barbaracle set with hazards, preferably SR and Spikes, so that it can sweep easier
16:03:28 (galbia notes: now you say that is why stall should have hazards control)
16:03:43 |c|%Expulso|^
16:03:45 |c|%Expulso|lol
16:04:11 (galbia notes: they can't see modlog lol)
16:04:37 (Xylen notes: lets move on)
16:04:39 |c|@galbia|That is why stall teams should usually have some form of hazards control
16:04:50 (Scene notes: is this another workshop lol)
16:04:54 |c|%Expulso|A good partner is Suicide Lead Crustle, which can set SR and Spikes, is very bulky (especially physically), and can phase with Red Card + Sturdy, which ensures it will live a hit
16:05:04 (Xylen notes: yes Scene, nu workshop by the nu room)
16:05:14 (Scene notes: cool carry on)
16:05:16 |c|%HJAD|its important since stall doesnt really have another way of wearing down tea,s
16:05:16 (Expulso notes: stop using mod notes oml)
16:05:30 (HJAD notes: Expulso carry on)
16:05:38 (HJAD notes: faster pace)
16:05:38 (Aladyyn notes: carry on my wayward soooon)
16:05:46 |c|%Expulso|This means that it can send in a random Pokemon, which lets it get up more Spikes
16:05:51 (Aladyyn notes: there'll be peace when you are goooone)
16:05:51 |c|%Expulso|sorry for the lag on my end, guys
16:06:04 |c|%Expulso|Now, we have Crustle / Barbaracle
16:06:09 (Aladyyn notes: lay your weary head to reeeeest)
16:06:16 (Aladyyn notes: don't you cry no moooar)
16:06:23 Aladyyn was warned by Scene.
16:06:23 |unlink|aladyyn
16:06:25 (HJAD notes: alad stop singing)
16:06:31 (Xylen notes: this is not a stage for you to sing)
16:06:46 (galbia notes: stop pls)
16:06:50 |c|%Expulso|Next, we should add in a spin blocker, to ensure that these hazards stay up; good ones are Spiritomb, Colbur Berry Mismagius, Haunter, and Rotom-N
16:06:55 |c|%Expulso|!data colbur berry
16:06:55 |c|~|/data-item Colbur Berry

16:07:07 (Xylen notes: all modnotes are in the modlog, so its all recorded too.)
16:07:10 |c|%HJAD|its a great item for knock off weak pokemon
16:07:18 |c|%Expulso|^
16:07:29 |c|%HJAD|mismagius uses this to great advantage
16:07:42 |c|%HJAD|since stall teams are often packed with knock off 'ers
16:07:42 |c|%Expulso|It also lets MIsmagius spinblock against Sandslash, which carries Knock Off
16:08:11 |c|%HJAD|as to not be stalled by heavy special and physical walls like sliggoo and tangela respectively
16:08:24 Soulgazer was promoted to Room Driver by Hollywood.
16:08:44 |c|%Soulgazer|why would u use colbur mismagius on a stall team
16:08:47 |c|&Hollywood|colbur mismagius is not used on stall at all btw
16:08:47 |c|%Expulso|We will use Mismagius here, as its ability to beat stall is invaluable on offensive teams, as is its great speed, although it's fairly weak by offensive standards.
16:09:00 |c|%Soulgazer|are u not making a stall
16:09:00 |c|%Expulso|this isn't a stall team guys
16:09:03 |c|%Expulso|this is offense
16:09:04 |c|%Expulso|smh
16:09:07 |c|%HJAD|on offense
16:09:10 |c|%Soulgazer|a nice thread about
16:09:10 |c|%HJAD|to spinblock
16:09:15 |c|%Soulgazer|a stall workshop
16:09:20 |c|%Soulgazer|and you do a offense team live
16:09:22 |c|%HJAD|and anti stall
16:09:22 |c|%Soulgazer|.
16:09:31 |c|%brawlfest|SG we finished stall
16:09:33 |c|%Expulso|gonna quote myself: [15:59:40] %Expulso: if you're asking why I'm doing this in a stall workshop: to play stall, you need an understanding of offense.
16:09:34 |c|%HJAD|^^
16:09:36 |c|%brawlfest|they are talking aobu thow to deal with it
16:09:48 |c|%brawlfest|just double freeze tbh right sg? ;]
16:09:52 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: can we continue?)
16:09:53 |c|%Expulso|Now, we need a Pokemon that can take Dark / Ghost attacks, as well as priority
16:10:24 |c|%Expulso|Gurdurr is an excellent Pokemon here.
16:10:54 |c|%Soulgazer|nah brawlfest
16:11:07 |c|%Expulso|(this is why Stall carries an answer to Fighting-types, such as Granbull, Weezing or Spiritomb; they're very common and effective.)
16:11:07 |c|%Soulgazer|but dont suggest
16:11:08 |c|@Xylen|lets not argue and move on please.
16:11:09 |c|%Soulgazer|tentacool and cuno for hazard removal
16:11:20 |c|%HJAD|brawlfest has left the building
16:11:23 |c|%HJAD|continue please
16:11:23 (galbia notes: you should argue in modnote :((((()
16:11:39 |c|%Soulgazer|nah i can't move on when they clearly suggest dumb stuff
16:11:43 (galbia notes: this looks so unprofessional)
16:11:57 (galbia notes: and SG is kinda right but let's move on pls)
16:12:35 |c|%Expulso|With Crustle / Barbaracle / Mismagius / Gurdurr, there are still some stally threats that can beat this team; Physical Walls in particular.
16:13:11 |c|%Expulso|Our only special attacker, Mismagius, is fairly weak, so something like Weezing can stop our team fairly well
16:14:13 |c|%Expulso|Therefore, I will be adding CM Mesprit with Dazzling Gleam; this allows it to beat Dark-types on stall and generally do very well against stall
16:14:50 |c|%HJAD|the added special bulk and power makes it increasingly difficult to stop
16:15:08 |c|@Xylen|how well can it deal with Crotomb, especially with dark pulse?
16:15:08 |c|%Expulso|This is why it's so important for Stall to have a (p)hazer; there are so many offensive, set-up related threats that it's necessary
16:15:21 |c|%Expulso|tegrof19: uxie or mesprit?
16:15:26 |c|%Soulgazer|nah
16:15:36 |c|%Soulgazer|phazing wont matter against a last mon cm tomb
16:15:39 |c|%Soulgazer|you need answers
16:15:41 |c|%Soulgazer|Real Answers
16:15:55 |c|%Soulgazer|like Cleric Slurpuff
16:15:57 |c|%Soulgazer|or spdef Rhydon
16:16:01 |c|%Soulgazer|stuff that can 3hko it
16:16:10 |c|%Soulgazer|or else you flat out lose to it
16:16:15 |c|%Expulso|I'm using Mesprit over the similar Uxie because Mesprit has much more offensive presence, and can do a lot of damage without setting up or losing momentum
16:16:52 |c|%Expulso|What Soulgazer said is correct, Hazers are usually way better than pseudo-Hazers on Stall, as the latter can be foiled by last-mon sweeps.
16:17:10 |c|%Soulgazer|even most hazers cant touch spiritomb
16:17:21 |c|%Expulso|meh Cryo beats CroTomb
16:17:29 (Xylen notes: guys, [04:16:12] MasterRyuga: are these people arguing or something its a bit annoying| this happened, can we please stop the arguing and let one person do the talking)
16:17:31 |c|%Aladyyn|anon approves that
16:17:50 (Expulso notes: soulgazer pls stop arguing n.n)
16:18:01 (HJAD notes: i agree, sg plz stop interrupting expulso needs to continue with what hes doing)
16:18:06 |c|@cbt|what is with
16:18:07 |c|%Soulgazer|nah i can't when you clearly don't understand how to play stall
16:18:08 |c|%Soulgazer|lol
16:18:09 |c|@cbt|these note
16:18:10 |c|@cbt|s
16:18:16 |c|@Xylen|guys, stop
16:18:21 |c|@Xylen|let the one talking do the talking
16:19:01 |c|%Expulso|The team is now Crustle / Barbaracle / Mismagius / Gurdurr / Mesprit; we just need 1 more Pokemon and the team is complete
16:19:41 |c|%Expulso|The more astute among you will have noticed a minor Dark weakness, which is compounded by Gurdurr's dislike of Knock OFf
16:19:43 |c|%Expulso|*Off
16:20:41 |c|%Expulso|I'll end this by adding CM Slurpuff; CM Slurpuff is an excellent sweeper, and does extremely well against stall (this is why spdef steelix / other steels are so important on stall!), as well as setting up on the dark-types that trouble the team
16:21:08 |c|%Expulso|It's been a pleasure to talk with you about offensive team building! Now, Aladyyn will discuss the matchup between Offense and Stall.
16:21:19 |c|%HJAD|go alad
16:21:24 |c|%Aladyyn|hey guys
16:21:30 |c|%HJAD|hi
16:21:33 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: hi aladyyn)
16:21:58 |c|%Aladyyn|you've heard/read how to build stall and offensive teams to better understand the matchup
16:22:16 |c|%Aladyyn|now we'll look at the interesting part: the battling
16:22:48 |c|%Aladyyn|a lot of people complain that they are unable to beat stall, which is one of the reasons this workshop was made
16:23:43 |c|%Aladyyn|but playing against stall is actually not THAT hard if you know how to approach it
16:24:02 |c|%Aladyyn|there are a couple things that will help you immensely
16:24:20 |c|%Aladyyn|I compiled them into a couple steps you might want to follow when battling stall
16:24:30 |c|%Aladyyn|the first step is
16:24:35 |c|%Aladyyn|identify your win condition
16:25:11 |c|%Aladyyn|this should happen before the battle begins and is a lot more important when playing against stall than any other playstyle
16:25:54 |c|%Aladyyn|basically what you want to do, is look at which one of your mons has the easiest time sweeping against the opposing team
16:26:12 |c|%Aladyyn|and then think about how to remove the things that prevent it from achieving that goal
16:26:57 |c|%Aladyyn|after you determine what your wincondition is
16:27:19 |c|%Aladyyn|you can focus on executing the game plan
16:28:04 |c|%Aladyyn|the easiest way to help you execute it
16:28:10 |c|%Aladyyn|is to use entry hazards
16:28:31 |c|%Aladyyn|sr and spikes of all sorts are very helpful in weakening stall teams
16:28:56 |c|%Aladyyn|of course you should have a spinblocker of some sorts if you go this way, spiritomb is generally the most reliable
16:29:07 |c|%Aladyyn|because the most common hazard remover on stall is cryogonal
16:29:33 |c|%Aladyyn|the other crucial thing in wearing down stall teams
16:29:41 |c|%Aladyyn|is eliminating the wish passer, generally audino
16:30:07 |c|%Aladyyn|because of regenerator, audino is hard to wear down
16:30:22 |c|%Aladyyn|but it can be achieved easily with the aforementioned hazards
16:31:22 |c|%Aladyyn|once you get rid of audino, removing things that prevent you from winning should be much easier, as a lot of common stall pokemon have no reliable recovery - dragalge, granbull, ferroseed etc
16:31:56 |c|%Aladyyn|so this is basically how you should proceed when playing against stall
16:32:15 |c|%Aladyyn|it's especially important to stay in the driver's seat the whole time
16:33:01 |c|%Aladyyn|if the stall player can just make the safe play every time, you'll have a very hard time breaking through
16:33:10 |c|%Aladyyn|you need to force them to play your game, not the other way around
16:33:32 |c|%Aladyyn|aggressive switches, predictions, stuff like that
16:33:55 |c|%Aladyyn|force the stall player to make risky plays
16:34:03 |c|%Aladyyn|and look for any mistake they make
16:34:15 |c|%Aladyyn|and punish it accordingly
16:36:45 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: Question: Could we also have an explanation of stall vs stall after the explanation of offense vs stall?)
16:37:02 |c|%Aladyyn|to end this, I'm gonna list some pokemon that can just run through whole stall teams
16:37:06 |c|%Aladyyn|or most of them at least
16:37:06 (HJAD notes: explanation of antistall after)
16:37:17 (HJAD notes: we could do it after that though)
16:37:22 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: not antistall, stal vs stall)
16:37:25 |c|%Aladyyn|the most common one is magmortar
16:37:29 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: oh)
16:37:33 |c|%Aladyyn|aka the best wallbreaker in NU
16:38:27 |c|%Aladyyn|magmortar has pretty much no safe switchins on defensive teams
16:38:34 |c|%Aladyyn|and can break down many of the defensive cores
16:38:51 |c|%Aladyyn|with coverage of fire blast/thunderbolt/hp grass/earthquake
16:39:25 |c|%Aladyyn|camerupt can do pretty much the same thing with fire blast/earthquake/solarbeam with power herb
16:39:32 |c|%Aladyyn|while providing hazard support for your team
16:40:07 |c|%Soulgazer|lol
16:40:19 (HJAD notes: sg no comments please)
16:40:50 |c|%Aladyyn|taunt+nasty plot mismagius is also a huge threat to stall teams as they can't really do much about it except dragon tail
16:41:25 |c|%Aladyyn|note that knock off audino is pretty common this gen so unfortunately mismagius can't set up on it every time
16:42:14 |c|%Aladyyn|and as the last one, my personal favorite
16:42:19 |c|%Aladyyn|double dance rhydon
16:43:16 |c|%Aladyyn|thanks to combination of great bulk and power
16:43:34 |c|%Aladyyn|it can set up on a lot of things on any given stall team and punch huge hules in physical walls
16:44:06 |c|%Aladyyn|and it has great stab combo only resisted by a handful of mons, not commonly found on stall teams (such as torterra)
16:44:32 |c|%Aladyyn|okay I guess I'm done, if anyone has a question, they can pm MegaFairyFlareon and it will get answered later :)
16:44:50 |c|%HJAD|thanks aladyyn, now comes my part:
16:45:15 |c|%HJAD|Today, i will be discussing how stall is a predictable playstyle easily beaten
16:45:32 |c|%HJAD|if your team can create your own win condition
16:45:33 |c|@CherubAgent|hear hear
16:46:34 |c|%HJAD|a team i have created (that will be given out) makes mince meat of stall
16:46:37 |c|@Xylen|Why not show a team and see describe what is most dangerous about it and what's its weakspot? idk just an idea
16:46:37 |c|%HJAD|purely because of the offensive type synergy
16:46:38 |c|%HJAD|that all the pokemon have together
16:46:58 |c|%HJAD|http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.$$x7QlvQwLB/latest
16:47:11 |c|%HJAD|in this pirate pad contains a team built around
16:47:18 |c|%HJAD|hp fire magnet trapping probopass
16:47:33 |c|%HJAD|at first glance, this set looks complete trash
16:47:47 |c|%HJAD|and most of the time, in regular games, its worse than a regular probopass
16:47:58 |c|%HJAD|however, it does one job extremely well
16:48:09 |c|%HJAD|and that is effectively trap and take out steel types
16:48:47 |c|%HJAD|courtesy of hp fire (ferroseed only reall)
16:48:54 |c|%HJAD|and earth power for other steels
16:49:05 |c|%HJAD|like steelix, bastiodon, other probopass
16:49:17 |c|%HJAD|this opens up the opposing team, by force
16:49:32 |c|%HJAD|and isnt subject to switch like other offensive cores
16:50:03 |c|%HJAD|the great thing, is that you can pair this pokemon alongside certain set-up sweepers that clean the rest of the opponents team
16:50:17 |c|%HJAD|in this case i have used sub belly drum slurpuff
16:50:56 |c|%HJAD|which is only really stopped by steels (and a handfull of other less common mons)
16:51:16 |c|%HJAD|regirock, tangela and rhydon are the only nonsteel mons that come to mind
16:51:44 |c|%HJAD|this opens up a stall team and gives you the ability to manipulate the game
16:51:51 |c|%HJAD|like aladyyn mentioned earlier on
16:52:00 |c|%HJAD|they play by your rules
16:52:06 |c|%HJAD|not vice-versa
16:52:35 |c|%HJAD|Another, pokemon that appreaciates the disappearance of steel mons is jynx
16:53:26 |c|%HJAD|probojynx last generation was one way we used to beat stall last generation
16:53:39 |c|%HJAD|and was extremely effective at doing so
16:53:52 |c|%HJAD|because with primary walls to jynx gone
16:53:58 |c|%HJAD|courtesy of probopass
16:54:19 |c|%HJAD|jynx can set-up on the secondary wall thanks to its lovely kiss
16:54:35 |c|%HJAD|then you can set-up subs and nasty plot
16:54:44 |c|%HJAD|and spam your unresisted monostab
16:54:55 |c|%HJAD|on the rest of the opponent team
16:55:27 |c|%HJAD|As you can see, this offensive core is very antistall
16:55:41 |c|%HJAD|and suits the rest of the team
16:55:46 |c|%HJAD|as that is very antistall as well
16:55:57 |c|%HJAD|its an "antistall" team if you will
16:56:26 |c|%HJAD|to go with antistall is suitably xatu
16:56:41 |c|%HJAD|which is a bulky attacker that cant be statused
16:56:52 |c|%HJAD|thanks to magic bounce
16:57:07 |c|%HJAD|even stall teams, use this mon in particular
16:57:15 |c|%HJAD|to break other stall teams
16:57:50 |c|%HJAD|a calm mind set with roost and psyshock and dazzling gleam
16:57:58 |c|%HJAD|allow it to set-up on the generick wall
16:58:16 |c|%HJAD|beat the main hazer in stall as cryogonal thanks to psyshock
16:58:47 |c|%HJAD|and tear apart the rest of the anti stall team
16:59:14 |c|%HJAD|Last of all we have to mention hazards
16:59:16 |c|%HJAD|stall teams hate hazards
16:59:18 |c|%HJAD|since they switch quite a bit
16:59:25 |c|%HJAD|therefore in my team i have a suicide lead + spinner
16:59:50 |c|%HJAD|to make sure, you get hazards and possibly geta free move for other pokemon in the team to set-up
17:00:06 |c|%HJAD|i choose lead archeops
17:00:24 |c|%HJAD|since its got a fast taunt, endeavour, and rocks
17:00:32 |c|%HJAD|it also has power in the form of headsmash
17:01:00 |c|%HJAD|to suicide on the sash
17:01:08 |c|%HJAD|so a spinner cant spin
17:01:15 |c|%HJAD|you get the momentum
17:01:21 |c|%HJAD|and can play appropriately
17:01:31 |c|%HJAD|last of all i have phys def spiritomb
17:01:39 |c|%HJAD|to block the rapid spins
17:01:47 |c|%HJAD|the evs are made
17:02:05 |c|%HJAD|to kill a 252/0 cryogonal after stealth rocks following a pursuit
17:02:24 |c|%HJAD|boosted pursuit
17:02:28 |c|%HJAD|on the switch out
17:02:38 (Xylen notes: its been almost 2 hrs 30 mins, lets just... you know)
17:02:47 (HJAD notes: im 2 minutes from done)
17:03:05 |c|%HJAD|this team beats stall 1v1 and thats its job
17:03:24 |c|%HJAD|but isnt good vs other playstyles like balanced or hyper offense
17:03:54 |c|%HJAD|so its only reccomended running a couple stall breakers on a team
17:03:59 |c|%HJAD|to also beat stall
17:04:08 (Aladyyn notes: you've been talking for a long time o_O)
17:04:20 |c|%HJAD|but also not flat out lose to stall itself
17:04:23 (Xylen notes: how many more parts do you need to do next?)
17:04:28 (Expulso notes: just 20 min he's fine)
17:04:51 (Aladyyn notes: I think it's just questions after this)
17:04:51 (Expulso notes: xylen i think it's just questions after this)
17:04:51 |c|%HJAD|these include taunt mismagius, life orb mortar, calm mind xatu and crotomb
17:05:09 |c|%HJAD|ok, thanks for listening to me
17:05:14 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: there are hardly any questions now)
17:05:19 |c|%HJAD|here comes the final round of questions
17:05:29 (Expulso notes: hjad)
17:05:42 (Expulso notes: will you post the pastebins sometime?)
17:05:42 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|BidoofGotSwag: how do stall vs stall matches go and what decides them most of the time
17:05:49 (HJAD notes: tes)
17:05:56 (HJAD notes: yes)
17:06:08 |c|%HJAD|stall vs stall matches are often really withdrawn game
17:06:13 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: i only have this and then someone that asks about ev's for wallbreaking rhydon )
17:06:21 |c|%HJAD|as soon as one hazard setter dies
17:06:22 (Xylen notes: treecko can get the logs after its done)
17:06:38 |c|%HJAD|hazard remover*
17:06:50 |c|%HJAD|the other stall team gets a huge advantage
17:06:54 |c|%senable|Stall vs stall is a tricky match up. What you want to do is maintain control at all times. Keep hazards up on your opponents field while keeping hazards off yours
17:06:55 |c|%HJAD|and often wins
17:06:57 (MegaFairyFlareon notes: and since we're not doing ev's for as far as i know we're done after this one)
17:07:03 |c|%HJAD|as senable, can say
17:07:23 |c|%HJAD|a good stall team often run another stall breaker
17:07:24 |c|%HJAD|like calm mind xatu
17:07:31 |c|%HJAD|to easier deal with other stall teams
17:07:37 |c|%HJAD|and can win as a result
17:07:40 (HJAD notes: next q)
17:08:21 |c|%MegaFairyFlareon|how does stall fare vs balance and how does offense fare vs. balance?
17:08:54 |c|%Expulso|hmmm
17:09:00 |c|%HJAD|stall fairs best vs offense
17:09:09 |c|%HJAD|so long as it can contain its main threats
17:09:20 |c|%Expulso|stall does very well vs balance iirc, it's usually able to take on balanced's weaker offensive threats
17:09:21 |c|%HJAD|because it forces lots of switch ins
17:09:32 |c|%Expulso|but if balance has a dedicated stall breaker it's a problem
17:09:38 |c|%HJAD|it also does well vs balance
17:09:56 |c|%HJAD|like expulso said
17:10:13 |c|%HJAD|right, i believe thats it for questions
17:10:34 |c|%HJAD|any other things you would like, please address me at the end via pms list