API tools faq
paste
Advertisement
italkyoubored

November 2, 1968: Lyndon Johnson and Everett Dirksen

italkyoubored
Feb 1st, 2015
447
0
Never
Add comment
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
text 8.54 KB | None | 0 0
raw download clone embed print report
  1. A transcript supplement to the post "The Treason of Richard Nixon Part One" (http://italkyoubored.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/the-treason-of-richard-nixon-from-possibility-to-certainty/).
  2.  
  3. DIRKSEN
  4. Hello?
  5.  
  6. JOHNSON
  7. Everett, how are you?
  8.  
  9. DIRKSEN
  10. All right.
  11.  
  12. JOHNSON
  13. I want to talk to you as a friend, and very confidentially, because I think that we're skirting on dangerous ground. I thought I ought to give you the facts, and you ought to pass them on if you choose. If you don't, why, then I will a little later.
  14.  
  15. DIRKSEN
  16. Yeah.
  17.  
  18. JOHNSON
  19. We have, on October the 13th, an agreement where Thieu and Ky, considering the bombing halt. At that time, President Thieu stressed, quote There must not be a long delay.
  20.  
  21. DIRKSEN
  22. Yeah.
  23.  
  24. JOHNSON
  25. That is, a delay between the halt and the conference.
  26.  
  27. DIRKSEN
  28. Yeah.
  29.  
  30. JOHNSON
  31. On October the 15th, Thieu agreed to a proposal that we worked out of 36 hours.
  32.  
  33. DIRKSEN
  34. Yeah.
  35.  
  36. JOHNSON
  37. On October the 23rd, after the North Vietnamese demanded two or three weeks, Thieu reluctantly agreed to three days delay. On October the 28th, we agreed on the joint announcement.
  38.  
  39. DIRKSEN
  40. Yeah.
  41.  
  42. JOHNSON
  43. Bunker and Abrams reached an explicit agreement with Thieu that the gap between the bombing and the talks would be two or three days. With three days the outer limit. Both Thieu and Ky stressed on us the importance of a minimum delay.
  44.  
  45. DIRKSEN
  46. Yeah.
  47.  
  48. JOHNSON
  49. Then we got some of our friends involved. Some of it's your old China crowd...
  50.  
  51. DIRKSEN
  52. Yeah.
  53.  
  54. JOHNSON
  55. And...here's the latest information we've got: the agent says that she's- they've just talked to the boss [Nixon] in New Mexico, and that he says that you must hold out, that . . . Just hold on until after the election.
  56.  
  57. Now, we know what Thieu is saying to 'em out there. We're pretty well informed on both ends. Now Nixon's man travelling with him today, said quote He did not understand that Thieu was not aboard. Did you see that?
  58.  
  59. DIRKSEN
  60. No, I didn't. Who was that?
  61.  
  62. JOHNSON
  63. We don't know...no idea. He speaks through these unknown people. Now, we told Nixon as we told Thieu...now, let me get the transcript. While this was going on, we went out to Thieu and talked to him, and all of our allied countries, and they all tentatively agreed. Now. Since that agreement, we have had problems develop. First, there's been speeches that we ought to withdraw troops. That was Humphrey and Bundy. Or: that we stop bombing, without getting anything in return. Or: some of our folks, including some of the old China Lobby, are going to the Vietnamese embassy and saying, please notify the President, that if he'll hold out till November 2nd, they can get a better deal.
  64.  
  65. JOHNSON
  66. Now, I'm reading their hand, Everett. I don't want to get this in the campaign.
  67.  
  68. DIRKSEN
  69. That's right.
  70.  
  71. JOHNSON
  72. And they oughtn't to be doing this. This is treason.
  73.  
  74. DIRKSEN
  75. I know.
  76.  
  77. JOHNSON
  78. I don't know whether it's [Melvin] Laird; I don't know who it is that is putting it out, but here is the UPI [item number] 48 that came in tonight.
  79.  
  80. DIRKSEN
  81. Yeah.
  82.  
  83. JOHNSON
  84. And I'm calling you only after talking to [Dean] Rusk and [Clark] Clifford and all of 'em, who thought that somebody ought to be notified as to what's happening.
  85.  
  86. DIRKSEN
  87. Yeah.
  88.  
  89. JOHNSON
  90. Here's the Nixon release. "A highly placed aide to Richard Nixon said today: the South Vietnamese decision to boycott the Paris talks did not jibe with the <i>confidential</i> assurances given the three major candidates by Johnson. We had the impression that all the diplomatic ducks were in a row, said the Nixon associate." Now, I just read you what I told them.
  91.  
  92. DIRKSEN
  93. Yeah.
  94.  
  95. JOHNSON
  96. And I told you that, and I told everyone else. "Johnson got Nixon, democratic candidate Humphrey, and third party hopeful Wallace on a conference call about the bombing. The adviser," Nixon's adviser, "volunteered the GOP candidate's reaction on the condition that he not be identified. Nixon said that the adviser felt that Saigon's refusal to attend the negotiations could jeopardize the military and the diplomatic situation in Vietnam. And reflect the credibility of this administration."
  97.  
  98. JOHNSON
  99. Now, I can identify 'em, because I know who's doing this. I don't want to identify it. I think it would shock America if a principal candidate was playing with a source like this on a matter this important.
  100.  
  101. DIRKSEN
  102. Yeah.
  103.  
  104. JOHNSON
  105. I don't want to do that.
  106.  
  107. DIRKSEN
  108. Yeah.
  109.  
  110. JOHNSON
  111. But if they're going to put this kind of stuff out, they ought to know that...we know what they're doing. I know who they're talking to, and I know what they're saying. And my judgement is, that Nixon oughta play it just like he has all along. That I want to see peace come the first day we can. That's not going to affect the election one way or the other. The conference is not even going to be held until <i>after</i> the election. They have stopped shelling the cities. They have stopped going across the DMZ. We've had twenty four hours of relative peace. Now, if Nixon keeps the South Vietnamese away from the conference, well, that's going to be his responsibility. Up to this point, that's why they're not there. I had them signed on board until this happened.
  112.  
  113. DIRKSEN
  114. Yeah.
  115.  
  116. JOHNSON
  117. Well, now, what do you think we ought to do about it?
  118.  
  119. DIRKSEN
  120. Well, I better get in touch with him, I think, and tell him about it.
  121.  
  122. JOHNSON
  123. I think you better tell him that his people are saying to these folks that they oughtn't to go through with this meeting [in Paris]. Now, if they don't go through with the meeting, it's not going to be me that's hurt. I think it's going to be whoever's elected.
  124.  
  125. DIRKSEN
  126. That's right.
  127.  
  128. JOHNSON
  129. It may be-my guess-him.
  130.  
  131. DIRKSEN
  132. Yeah.
  133.  
  134. JOHNSON
  135. And I think they're making a very serious mistake, and I don't want to say this.
  136.  
  137. DIRKSEN
  138. Yeah.
  139.  
  140. JOHNSON
  141. And you're the only one I'm going to say it to.
  142.  
  143. DIRKSEN
  144. Yeah. I understood they're gonna be in Texas tonight.
  145.  
  146. JOHNSON
  147. I don't know. All I know is that, I read you what I told him, the three candidates, just as I told you. I said, now, there has been speeches that some we oughta withdraw troops, and including some of the old China crowd, going in and implying to the embassies.
  148.  
  149. JOHNSON
  150. Now, Everett, I know what happens there. You see what I mean?
  151.  
  152. DIRKSEN
  153. I do.
  154.  
  155. JOHNSON
  156. And I'm looking at his hole card.
  157.  
  158. DIRKSEN
  159. Yeah.
  160.  
  161. JOHNSON
  162. Now, I don't want to get in a fight with him there. I think Nixon's gonna to be elected.
  163.  
  164. DIRKSEN
  165. Yeah.
  166.  
  167. JOHNSON
  168. And I think we ought to have peace, and I'm going to work with him.
  169.  
  170. DIRKSEN
  171. That's right.
  172.  
  173. JOHNSON
  174. I've worked with you.
  175.  
  176. DIRKSEN
  177. That's right.
  178.  
  179. JOHNSON
  180. [with Dirksen assenting] But I don't want these sons of bitches like Laird giving out announcements like this, that Johnson gave them the wrong impression. I gave them the right impression, except I gave it to him decently, when I said that you ought to keep the Mrs. Chennaults and all the rest of 'em from running around here. Now, you see, I know what Thieu says to his people out there.
  181.  
  182. DIRKSEN
  183. Yeah. I haven't seen Laird.
  184.  
  185. JOHNSON
  186. Well, I don't know who it is that's with Nixon. It may be Laird. It may be [Bryce] Harlow. It may be [John] Mitchell. I don't know who it is.
  187.  
  188. I know this: that they're contacting a foreign power in the middle of a war.
  189.  
  190. DIRKSEN
  191. That's a mistake!
  192.  
  193. JOHNSON
  194. And it's a damn bad mistake.
  195.  
  196. DIRKSEN
  197. Oh, it is.
  198.  
  199. JOHNSON
  200. [with Dirksen assenting] And I don't want to say you, and you're the only man that I have enough confidence in to tell 'em. But you better tell 'em they better quit playing with it, and the day after the election, I'll sit down with all of you and try to work it out and try and be helpful. But they oughtn't knock out this conference.
  201.  
  202. DIRKSEN
  203. Wherever they are, I'll try and get hold of them.
  204.  
  205. JOHNSON
  206. Well, there are two things they ought to do. One is, they ought to stop this business of trying to stop this conference from taking place. It takes place the day after the election.
  207.  
  208. DIRKSEN
  209. Exactly.
  210.  
  211. JOHNSON
  212. The second thing is, we can all sit down and talk about it after that time. I'm not a bitter partisan here, and you know it.
  213.  
  214. DIRKSEN
  215. I know. Well, I'll try and find a way wherever they are tonight.
  216.  
  217. JOHNSON
  218. Well, you just tell them that their people are messing around in this thing and if they don't want it on the front pages, they better quit it, number one. Number two, we better sit down and talk about it, soon as this thing is over with, we'll try to work out an- and they ought to tell their people that are contacting these embassies to go on with the conference.
  219.  
  220. DIRKSEN
  221. Okay. I agree.
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Advertisement
Public Pastes
Advertisement
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy.  OK, I Understand
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!