12 Lesta Nediam LNC2017-12-09 1655 +John Flemming

Lesta Nediam LNC2017-12-09 1655 +John Flemming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018i7H0D1Co&lc=UgxlupR0g-UY1xggpp14AaABAg
https://pastebin.com/EmdjkHwm
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+John Flemming __ That's okay, not everyone can see everything that gets pointed out. A lot of optical illusions remain imperceptible despite great lengths taken to help others to see them. Sometimes a person just doesn't want to "see" because it means having to let go of something they want to remain true. What follows is for anyone who may share your sentiments and doesn't mind reading a little and watching some videos.

*It must be understood that every panda is highly trained.* Not many people realise that let alone have seen a panda getting trained. Most people are just used to seeing them clown about and don't think there's anything more to it. Pandas are not like a pet cat. Here is some publicly available footage of one panda getting some training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDS95D_0Y0o

Here is a panda getting a blood sample drawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7D5uHl-Fio

Here is a panda getting a vaccination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKaiJkfB18

Try getting a young child to be that complacent. The point is to demonstrate that panda behaviour is (or, can be) highly trained *and we can suspect other behaviours they exhibit are also the result of training.* Especially when they are bizarre, unusual, and entertaining. For example, watch this video and tell me if you think it's a giant panda behaving "naturally": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2opOrKD6OEI

*Giant Pandas are big business.* The "Chengdu Research Base of Giant Panda Breeding" has *4 million tourists visit* each year. *Tell me, why wouldn't the pandas be trained to perform charming antics to draw in crowds?* As it happens, pandas have a history of being in circuses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ0dadWNgXo

That tells us something not just about pandas, but also about the kind of people who manage them.

Would anyone bother to go see the giant pandas if all they did was sit around and sleep? They'd have as few visitors as gorilla enclosures and handlers would need to make sh!t up like has been done with "Koko" the so-called "talking gorilla". This "Koko" video was a stunt. "Koko" didn't really "say" that, but a lot of people believe "Koko" did because they aren't outright told it's a stunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVuNTiqHys0

How many kittens do you think "Koko" went through before she found "the one"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR6MeFFzqQ8
By the way, this is what normal gorillas do when they encounter a kitten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK_kjrBT5hA

Do you believe that pandas are never harmed when they fall from tall trees? That's what the "panda experts" tell us so it must be true, right? I guess you believe it. *But do you really believe pandas can fall from tall trees without any physical consequences?* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_XIdHTDrs

Can you name any other land-based animal that clowns about in trees (and inevitably falls from them) like giant pandas do? _As often as giant pandas do?_

I'm not trying to call you stupid or unobservant, but just how closely have you looked into giant pandas and the business model that goes with them? It's big business and no one wants to go and see a panda that's sleeping and looking bored out of its mind. If the Russians had no qualms cheating (at the Olympics), then why would the Chinese government be any different (when it comes to pandas)?

For most people it comes down to trust and not looking into things too deeply.




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2017-12-09 2025

+John Flemming __ Cheers. Just some follow-up since I could have been more clear in the video and my comments above. I am not suggesting that pandas are specifically trained to climb up trees and then jump off of them. Rather, I am suggesting that they are trained to engage in various behaviours that cause them to climb up trees in a way that ultimately causes them to fall.

That behaviour helps to draw in crowds of paying customers. While there are many videos showing pandas falling from trees, there are even more showing them clowning about upside down and rocking/shifting about on fragile branches as though they are trying to weaken the branches - _so that they snap on the next panda!_

I'm not convinced that's purely natural behaviour, and I don't think any other land-based animal does that. An example of what I am talking about can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6At3qjurhOs


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