### Session Start at [2011-03-11 13:48]
[13:48]  <AF> *prod*
[14:18]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> hi can't talk now but I'll be back soon
[14:18]  <AF> slrighty ttyl
[16:52]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> back
[16:52]  <AF> hurrah
[16:52]  <AF> what is the status of shard and evolutionrts?
[16:52]  <AF> I've been incapacitated by shitty mobile internet for a while now
[16:53]  <AF> but now I have ADSL again
[16:53]  <AF> and I'm <500m from the exchange here
[16:54]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> Not much status to it really
[16:54]  <AF> how do you mean?
[16:54]  <AF> no change it still works?
[16:54]  <AF> or it doesnt work at all
[16:54]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> Doesn't really work at all
[16:54]  <AF> =(
[16:54]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> and I got something to tell you about it that you won't like
[16:55]  <AF> when did this happen
[16:55]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> You need to turn it into a luaai and put it in a central repo that we content devs can pull from
[16:55]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> one of the spring versions
[16:55]  <AF> why?
[16:55]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> because if you fuck off for 3 months, get hit by a truck, shitty internet, etc we can't do shit about it
[16:56]  <AF> it doesnt help that Im never told if my AI is broken
[16:56]  <AF> if you had made me aware
[16:56]  <AF> I could have taken special measures
[16:56]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> also, you could accept patches and whatnot for it because if it's in lua, you're bound by the nature of the thing to get more outside support
[16:56]  <AF> theres nothing stopping patches for it via lua
[16:57]  <AF> Shard si already on github
[16:57]  <AF> and that includes the lua files
[16:57]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> The point is, we want dedicated ai that we can count on and shit with our stuff. dll ai's are more or less in disgrace atm
[16:58]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I'm aware of that, but you will become instantly popular if you luaai it and stick it in an svn for us to pull from
[16:58]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I promise :-)
[16:58]  <AF> Thats an artefact of poor API management by Hoijui and the neverending legacy supporting the likes fo AAI etc
[16:58]  <AF> put quite simply
[16:59]  <AF> the C++ component of Shard is not hard to maintain
[16:59]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> not really
[16:59]  <AF> there is no AI logic in it
[16:59]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> you're glossing over the actual problem
[16:59]  <AF> its essentially an API wrapper
[16:59]  <AF> pure and simple
[16:59]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I know
[16:59]  <AF> as such
[16:59]  <AF> does Shard actually run?
[16:59]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> as a result, why not l;uaai it and make many many content devs happy?
[16:59]  <AF> ignoring any logic errors
[16:59]  <AF> or does ti crash out?
[16:59]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> uhh hmm I dunno since the latest spring version
[17:00]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> last spring version it was more or less unusable
[17:00]  <AF> what about back when ti was broken for you?
[17:00]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> and you weren't around so I didn't bother putting any effort into it
[17:00]  <AF> was it like running AAI? Itd run but itd do nothing?
[17:00]  <AF> Im always contactable
[17:00]  <AF> I may not be here or on msn
[17:00]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> it would run and do stuff but it did stupid shit like building 15 zillion things in a grid and crap
[17:00]  <AF> but I have my phone etc
[17:00]  <AF> and work
[17:01]  <AF> any message will eb known adn read within 12 hours max
[17:01]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> dude seriously, put it all in lua
[17:01]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I promise you it will be beneficial forf oyu and everyone involved :-)
[17:01]  <AF> I dont see why somebody hasnt already done that
[17:01]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> Also, smoth will like you quite a lot for it ;p
[17:01]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well
[17:01]  <AF> Smoth has no interest in AI
[17:01]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> either cba or dunno how would be my guess
[17:02]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> he would if it was luaai
[17:02]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I've already had this convo with him regarding shard
[17:02]  <AF> hes always said it wouldnt work to me whenever Ive mentioned Gundam AI
[17:02]  <AF> the only other arguement hes put forward is the maintainer bsu factor one you put forward earlier
[17:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> Well look at it this way
[17:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> withoiut it being luaai, he doesn't even have any interest in messing with it, and tbh, I totally see hits point
[17:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> you mentioned people not updating often being a reason not to maintain it as luaai
[17:04]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> but you don't realize, that people like me will always be on top of that shit
[17:04]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> because we want the latest and greatest :-)
[17:04]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> ask me why I stripped out and reimplemented lups in evo the other day ;p
[17:04]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> Even tho what I'm using it for hasn't changed at all
[17:05]  <AF> a pure lua implementation nukes many fo the designs I had in mind, and potential salvage from the legacy AIs
[17:05]  <AF> and introduces a new raft of issues
[17:05]  <AF> namely API calls that exist for native AIS
[17:05]  <AF> but have no counterparts in the lua api as far as Im aware
[17:05]  <AF> e.g. closestbuildsite
[17:05]  <AF> it also removes the one feature that was NTais saving grace
[17:05]  <AF> multithreading
[17:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well]
[17:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> vaild points
[17:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> however, multithreading kind of falls on the wayside
[17:06]  <AF> I was considering a basic spring API implementation
[17:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> and there are 99% more pro's to it than cons (from someone in my shoes perspective)
[17:06]  <AF> but until I had finished refactors of shards internals I wasnt to consider ti fully
[17:07]  <AF> I know
[17:07]  <AF> there are pros and cons
[17:08]  <AF> Im actually rather miffed that nobody told me it was broken
[17:08]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> 1 sec brb
[17:08]  <AF> Its like when 1000 people downloaded an NTai build that was guaranteed to crash before even a single person mentioned it
[17:09]  <AF> I will need to think about this
[17:09]  <AF> There are strategic and political implications fo such a move
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> hey
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> sorry
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> that was really long
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> a friend from KC just called me after me wondering what had happened to her for the past month or so
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well see the thing is
[18:03]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> sometimes it works and jsut does these grid things and whatnot
[18:04]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> youw ere nowhere ot be foun dand I had a ton of shit to do plus assloads of RL stuff and I just didn't want to mess with it
[18:05]  <AF> Shifting Shard to Lua AI purely
[18:05]  <AF> would have ramifications beyond it purely being lua
[18:05]  <AF> especially fi ti became more popular
[18:06]  <AF> it would be a slap in the face for hoijui if it became popular in BA
[18:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I understand, but imo that would be an insanely smart move
[18:06]  <AF> I see that
[18:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> how would it be a slap in the face?
[18:06]  <AF> it'd put a big question mark over the DLL Native AIs
[18:06]  <AF> since Shard is the only native AI thats realistically maintained by a long stretch
[18:06]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> tbh natice dll ai's have been on the way out since CRAIG
[18:06]  <AF> AAI/KAIK/RAI are zombies
[18:07]  <AF> native AIs suffer because fo politics
[18:07]  <AF> and lack fo developers
[18:07]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> yes muchly
[18:07]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> and figure this
[18:07]  <AF> they could be wonderous things
[18:07]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> imagine how much better it would be if all ai devs were using lua
[18:07]  <AF> but not with someone like hoijui at the helm making thos ekinds of design decisions
[18:07]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> we're talking serious development strides here
[18:08]  <AF> I understand what you say
[18:09]  <AF> eitherway
[18:09]  <AF> it succesful
[18:09]  <AF> it would crush Hoijuis efforts and relegate it to supporting a handful of minor projects that dont help
[18:10]  <AF> it would also close off avenues for academia and people like when we originally had AIs
[18:10]  <AF> and it would be a death warrant to the existing legacy AIs
[18:10]  <AF> while AAI and KAIK are long overdue
[18:10]  <AF> RAI still seems to have some flexibility
[18:10]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> ehh sort of
[18:10]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> not really
[18:10]  <AF> though it leaves much to eb desired
[18:10]  <AF> lol
[18:11]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> shard could easilly take all their places as a luaai
[18:11]  <AF> the number fo times people have asked about shard and cited RAI gettign almost there then falling flat
[18:11]  <AF> hmmm
[18:11]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> The only thing those ai's do well is support BA
[18:11]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well shit
[18:11]  <AF> right this moment Im in a massive push to get my new website in a position to apply for a new job
[18:11]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> shard can do that without even thinking about it
[18:12]  <AF> which is another thing you may fidn of interest
[18:12]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> and it's extreme flexability allows people like me to bend it to our will
[18:13]  <AF> as intended
[18:14]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well, now is the time to take it to the next level
[18:14]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> I think you underestimate the arcing ropes of jizm that will fly if you announce shard as a luaai
[18:15]  <AF> well it seems the logical course of action
[18:15]  <AF> I shall need time to collect and discuss things with some people
[18:16]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> rgr rgr
[18:16]  <AF> I'd rather not appear oneday and take everyone by surprise
[18:16]  <AF> I'd prefer to have insiders from major games help
[18:16]  <AF> so that when ti did happen it would just happen
[18:17]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> well fair enough
[18:17]  <[Evo]Forboding_Angel> either way tbh
[18:36]  ** User is now offline.
[18:36]  ** Server ** Chat closed.