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  1. [3:23:47pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] I find it pointless to have this vote here, really. I our community almost entirely wants to join with theirs, due mostly to our almost completely insured demise if we don't. As such, our nearly whole hearted plea won't do much against theirs, as ours can continue it, while theirs can stop it.
  2. [3:23:47pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Also, I would like to point out that, if I haven't already made it clear, the current "ideas" for the merge are very one sided. Most of the discussion has been dominated by us, and we seem to want to stiffle the usage of the Keyhole's content prominently wherever it should be featured. I'll go ahead and see if I can find out what would sway them, but no promises that I'll even get
  3. [3:23:48pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] that far. Light, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent 22:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
  4. [3:24:22pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] That's all.
  5. [3:24:22pm] [C8|Community] "Most of the discussion has been dominated by us, and we seem to want to stiffle the usage of the Keyhole's content prominently wherever it should be featured."
  6. [3:24:28pm] [C8|Community] That isn't entirely true :/
  7. [3:24:43pm] [C8|Community] But, yeah, I get most of what he's saying.
  8. [3:24:50pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Really? Show me how that isnt entirely true
  9. [3:25:22pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Also, rage-retiring, really?
  10. [3:25:40pm] [C8|Community] *rage-inactiving
  11. [3:25:49pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] ... rage in the end
  12. [3:25:52pm] [C8|Community] Well, check the Roundtable logs.
  13. [3:26:00pm] [C8|Community] Hey, I did exactly what Sox did.
  14. [3:26:00pm] • C8|Community said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  15. [3:26:07pm] [C8|Community] Got fed up with the community and administration.
  16. [3:26:21pm] [LegoAlchemist] DE, if you wouldn't mind reading our concerns before you joined: http://pastebin.com/HZgXY5Ke
  17. [3:26:23pm] [C8|Community] Most of the people at that roundtable were from The Keyhole.
  18. [3:26:28pm] Sora (5205e28e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.5.226.142) has quit IRC. (Page closed) (Dec-26-2011)
  19. [3:26:30pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Sox got tired. That was all, he was back in a week. and thanks, Lego
  20. [3:26:30pm] • Dark-EnigmaXIII said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  21. [3:26:42pm] [LegoAlchemist] It isn't long.
  22. [3:26:54pm] [C8|Community] No.
  23. [3:26:59pm] [C8|Community] I meant Sox left .net
  24. [3:26:59pm] • C8|Community said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  25. [3:27:01pm] [C8|Community] for those reasons.
  26. [3:27:45pm] [LegoAlchemist] You left .net, Chitty?
  27. [3:27:53pm] [maggosh] *ahem*
  28. [3:27:58pm] [LegoAlchemist] *meha*
  29. [3:28:13pm] [C8|Community] Nah, I inactive'd on wikia.
  30. [3:28:18pm] [LegoAlchemist] Oh.
  31. [3:28:33pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Sox left .net because he agreed more on what I had in mind.
  32. [3:28:33pm] • Dark-EnigmaXIII said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  33. [3:28:39pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Regardless of his position now
  34. [3:28:43pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] He just agreed with me
  35. [3:28:51pm] [C8|Community] Sox himself told me he hated Kryten, DTN, and Neumannz.
  36. [3:28:51pm] • C8|Community said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  37. [3:28:52pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Im tires of saying, if you want to blame someone, blame me
  38. [3:29:14pm] [C8|Community] My inactiving doesn't mean jack shit. I'll still be on the forums and stuff.
  39. [3:29:26pm] [LegoAlchemist] I am the same.
  40. [3:29:31pm] [LegoAlchemist] I don't edit the mainspace because I don't have time.
  41. [3:29:43pm] [LegoAlchemist] But I am more than willing to give my inputs on the forums, especially since it is winter break.
  42. [3:29:58pm] [LegoAlchemist] *input.
  43. [3:30:01pm] [LegoAlchemist] "inputs"
  44. [3:30:03pm] [LegoAlchemist] lol.
  45. [3:30:10pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Kryten himself said "let the community decide" the community HAS the information, regardless of if they use it or not, we cannot force them to sit and read trough the logs. Now, they are voting
  46. [3:30:12pm] ArchAngelus (bd385cd2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.56.92.210) has joined #wikia-kingdomhearts (Dec-26-2011)
  47. [3:30:34pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] You guys act like if I had completely killed the idea. Sox and me are unsure of the benefits it might bring forth
  48. [3:30:34pm] • Dark-EnigmaXIII said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  49. [3:30:42pm] [C8|Community] Your community is being, to be blunt, stubborn and ignorant.
  50. [3:30:46pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] but we are not the entire community, for god sake
  51. [3:30:50pm] [LegoAlchemist] Chitty.
  52. [3:30:56pm] [C8|Community] =.=
  53. [3:31:15pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] They are choosing what they want, ACCORDING TO WHAT KRYTEN SAID
  54. [3:31:20pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Community must have a say
  55. [3:31:21pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] and I agree
  56. [3:31:38pm] [maggosh] Did you all read Kryten's latest post on the Keyhole?
  57. [3:31:51pm] [LegoAlchemist] Really.
  58. [3:32:01pm] [Darkheart3] yes
  59. [3:32:05pm] [Darkheart3] i read it
  60. [3:32:55pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] So far, so far, we are only able to see advantages to khwiki. T_I got it right, we're not in "dire need" of a merge. We have the biggest community, page view, and traffic of anons and users, regardless of regulars.
  61. [3:33:03pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] That's my input
  62. [3:33:07pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Its NOT
  63. [3:33:15pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] because of paranoid and fear of .net
  64. [3:33:39pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Chit, if you bothered to read Sox post, you'd see that both he and I are worried about the user income and traffic
  65. [3:33:39pm] • Dark-EnigmaXIII said your highlight in #wikia-kingdomhearts.
  66. [3:33:43pm] [LegoAlchemist] So I was right.
  67. [3:33:47pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Trusted editors > number of editors
  68. [3:33:49pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] yes
  69. [3:33:51pm] [Darkheart3] on a completely unrelated sidenote, i just bought a 3DS
  70. [3:33:52pm] [LegoAlchemist] You're not merging because you don't feel you need to.
  71. [3:33:59pm] [LegoAlchemist] Not because you're scared of the outcome.
  72. [3:34:04pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Exactly
  73. [3:34:07pm] [ErryK|KH] WASTE OF MONEY DARKHEART.
  74. [3:34:10pm] [C8|Community] However, your regular users think otherwise.
  75. [3:34:13pm] [ErryK|KH] Should've waited 2 months to get the Vita.
  76. [3:34:24pm] [Chaser] or get it now
  77. [3:34:25pm] [maggosh] WASTE OF PROJECTION ERRY
  78. [3:34:26pm] [C8|Community] I can understand your concerns about user traffic, a problem solved by HEAVY advertising on wikia.
  79. [3:34:29pm] [Darkheart3] I CAN"T WAIT TWO MONTHS
  80. [3:34:39pm] [ErryK|KH] well sony can >: 3
  81. [3:34:45pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] That's far beyond my control. I cant force users to think somenthing, and you know that
  82. [3:34:48pm] [Darkheart3] =.=
  83. [3:34:48pm] [ErryK|KH] and me for that matter.
  84. [3:34:59pm] [C8|Community] But your users who HAVE NEVER EDITED ON .NET think we're some sort of evil overlords.
  85. [3:35:05pm] [C8|Community] THAT'S why I'm pissed.
  86. [3:35:17pm] [Darkheart3] im not interested in a vita, id much rather have a regular psp
  87. [3:35:24pm] [LegoAlchemist] Yes. The paranoia.
  88. [3:35:57pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] But what can I do about it? I explained and explained, and you guys have as well, that there's nothing to fear.
  89. [3:36:07pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] I cant project my mind on them
  90. [3:36:10pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] would be awesome if I could
  91. [3:36:16pm] [LegoAlchemist] I don't mean to swing back to this,
  92. [3:36:17pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] An army under my control
  93. [3:36:20pm] [LegoAlchemist] but this is why we need to merge.
  94. [3:36:29pm] [LegoAlchemist] To bridge the gap between the wikis and destroy the paranoia.
  95. [3:36:37pm] [C8|Community] However, this isn't an opinion. They are actually coming up with these things on their own.
  96. [3:36:49pm] [LegoAlchemist] I think that's why, initially, we didn't really want the community heavily involved.
  97. [3:36:50pm] [C8|Community] YOU can help dispel these ridiculous misconceptions.
  98. [3:37:28pm] Darkheart3 (795ae604@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.90.230.4) has quit IRC. (meh, im gonna go play my 3DS that is NOT a VITA) (Dec-26-2011)
  99. [3:37:32pm] [LegoAlchemist] Which, apparently, was a mistake, trying to change a website so heavily influenced by community.
  100. [3:38:10pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] My point still remains. Nothing assure us that when we merge, we will not rot into khwiki.net current shape, wich admitedly had only become relatively active because of the suggestion of a merge
  101. [3:38:13pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] because that was it
  102. [3:38:18pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] a suggestion that had to be considered
  103. [3:38:26pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] and my community is considering it now
  104. [3:38:35pm] [C8|Community] ...
  105. [3:38:43pm] [LegoAlchemist] Erm.
  106. [3:38:52pm] [LegoAlchemist] If you wouldn't mind saying "wikia" community.
  107. [3:39:06pm] [LegoAlchemist] No, never mind, I understood the context.
  108. [3:39:14pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] sorry if it was confusing
  109. [3:39:22pm] [C8|Community] Okay, to be perfectly frank, there is absolutely zero difference between .net and wikia, besides the editors.
  110. [3:39:34pm] [LegoAlchemist] And the traffic.
  111. [3:39:53pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] But you guys are falling to understand the importance that traffic has.
  112. [3:40:10pm] [LegoAlchemist] Uh.
  113. [3:40:11pm] [LegoAlchemist] No.
  114. [3:40:12pm] [C8|Community] Not too much.
  115. [3:40:13pm] [LegoAlchemist] That is false.
  116. [3:40:39pm] [C8|Community] How many prolific and useful editors have joined since the split?
  117. [3:40:41pm] [ErryK|KH] I don't know why you're saying that if we merge the traffic is gonna go down the drain.
  118. [3:40:44pm] [LegoAlchemist] The entire wiki is aware that traffic is a problem.
  119. [3:41:09pm] [LegoAlchemist] Okay. It was a "transition", not a "split".
  120. [3:41:12pm] [LegoAlchemist] At least, that was the intention.
  121. [3:41:28pm] [C8|Community] "fork"
  122. [3:41:34pm] [C8|Community] Is the proper term.
  123. [3:41:43pm] [C8|Community] Well, that's what other people use :/
  124. [3:41:46pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Kyo Wolfe, OATOBLIVION, Xion Auora, LegendAqua, Anselm Durante, Wikian13000, ArchAngelus, TwilightEqua, etc
  125. [3:41:55pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] those are off the top of my head
  126. [3:42:43pm] [C8|Community] I thought LA was here before the split.
  127. [3:43:02pm] [C8|Community] TwinlightEqua has been around.
  128. [3:43:03pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Nope, she joined before
  129. [3:43:07pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] around a month or so
  130. [3:43:16pm] [C8|Community] She joined a month before the fork?
  131. [3:43:31pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Nope, I meant
  132. [3:43:32pm] [C8|Community] Anselm Durante just posts links to khinsider on the KH3D talk page.
  133. [3:43:33pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] after <<
  134. [3:43:53pm] [C8|Community] Never seen Wikian do too much.
  135. [3:44:03pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Anselm Durante wnats to help, he was able to provide the sound files for the OST if it wasnt for Kyo doing them
  136. [3:44:05pm] [C8|Community] And even so, this is out of the 1000+ editors that joined your wiki in the past year.
  137. [3:44:13pm] [Chaser] DE, not to be rude, but all Wikian13000 does it talk page and forum
  138. [3:44:19pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Well, how many new users do YOU have?
  139. [3:44:28pm] [C8|Community] None, due to our low activity.
  140. [3:45:06pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Out of 1000, we got around 10
  141. [3:45:13pm] [C8|Community] Xion Aurora actually edits?
  142. [3:45:22pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Out of 100, you didnt get a single one besides, Luke, I believe, but idk if he edits
  143. [3:45:24pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] and yes
  144. [3:45:30pm] [Chaser] yes she does C8
  145. [3:45:37pm] [C8|Community] Which is why merging would be benificial.
  146. [3:45:56pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] For us? I dont think so.
  147. [3:46:02pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] The merge so far is a one-sided benefit
  148. [3:46:08pm] [C8|Community] Again, I must stress that having a community of regulars is better than many new editors.
  149. [3:46:23pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] But those regulars had to be new beforehand
  150. [3:46:48pm] [C8|Community] I see many new editors on your wiki who never get an edit in, due to the constant reverting.
  151. [3:47:05pm] [C8|Community] Oh, we got that Pain guy.
  152. [3:47:10pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Pain is here too
  153. [3:47:13pm] [C8|Community] So 1 for our 100 and 10 for your 1000
  154. [3:47:20pm] [C8|Community] Yep.
  155. [3:47:29pm] [C8|Community] It doesn't matter if he's at both, he still edits.
  156. [3:47:56pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] btw, she links to wikia, and the wikis at wikia link back to us
  157. [3:47:59pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] just so you know
  158. [3:48:20pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] she/he
  159. [3:48:25pm] [Chaser] "1 for our 100 and 10 for your 1000", that still in the same percentage
  160. [3:48:37pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] ^
  161. [3:48:40pm] [Chaser] 1%
  162. [3:48:45pm] [C8|Community] Besides, many of your 1000 have actually been detrimental for your wiki :P
  163. [3:48:58pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] A needed evil
  164. [3:49:03pm] ArchAngelus (bd385cd2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.56.92.210) has quit IRC. (Page closed) (Dec-26-2011)
  165. [3:49:15pm] [C8|Community] Honestly, how often do you go to someone's talk page and get that feeling "I think this guy will be the next big thing"?
  166. [3:49:29pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] I dont welcome people myself
  167. [3:49:40pm] [Chaser] only 2 people do that, LA and MV
  168. [3:49:40pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Unless I saw them working
  169. [3:49:47pm] [Chaser] overall anyway
  170. [3:50:19pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] I can understand why you guys need to merge so badly, I really can. But I dont see the benefit for us. Because there isnt so far
  171. [3:50:30pm] [C8|Community] More rational editors.
  172. [3:50:43pm] [LegoAlchemist] http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Future_of_the_Kingdom_Hearts_wiki
  173. [3:50:44pm] [C8|Community] More regular non-staffers who are actually as competent as staffers.
  174. [3:50:49pm] [LegoAlchemist] This forum.
  175. [3:51:01pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Yes, Lego?
  176. [3:51:04pm] [LegoAlchemist] This was when the idea of a remerge was initially brought up.
  177. [3:51:08pm] [ErryK|KH] I'm mainly after the merge because I want all conflict to end.
  178. [3:51:16pm] [LegoAlchemist] Yes.
  179. [3:51:25pm] [LegoAlchemist] Benefits for you guys:
  180. [3:51:27pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] And Chit, all of those dont defeat my points
  181. [3:51:34pm] [C8|Community] *your point
  182. [3:51:42pm] [LegoAlchemist] You no longer have to deal with the conflict between the two wikis
  183. [3:52:03pm] [LegoAlchemist] All the tension that exists -- like the tension there is now -- will go.
  184. [3:52:42pm] [LegoAlchemist] You will also have a roster of experienced users/staff at your disposal.
  185. [3:52:54pm] [C8|Community] Access to more resources.
  186. [3:53:39pm] [LegoAlchemist] Like I think Chitty has been saying, a group of long-time experienced editors is far superior to a steady income of noobs.
  187. [3:53:48pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] Decide: Are out users experienced or not? because you say both that you'd like their exelent work, and that if we merge we'll just then get experienced editors.
  188. [3:53:51pm] [Dark-EnigmaXIII] *our users
  189. [3:54:00pm] [LegoAlchemist] They are not AS experienced.
  190. [3:54:04pm] [LegoAlchemist] Is what I am trying to say.
  191. [3:54:19pm] [LegoAlchemist] Basically everyone on .net is a veteran. Has been editing the wiki for a very long time.
  192. [3:54:27pm] [LegoAlchemist] And the only reason they are there is because they CARE ABOUT THE WIKI.
  193. [3:54:31pm] [LegoAlchemist] The
  194. [3:54:52pm] [LegoAlchemist] The "Split" happened because a group of editors were so frustrated with wikia's changes that they thought it would harm the wiki.
  195. [3:55:21pm] [LegoAlchemist] Maybe they were wrong, maybe they were right. That isn't important.
  196. [3:56:00pm] [LegoAlchemist] What the editors at .net have is an immense amount of devotion to the wiki -- a devotion that, in my opinion, far surpasses the devotion at wikia.
  197. [3:56:10pm] [ErryK|KH] The merge is really for the best, if it doesn't happen then the worst case scenario I envisioned would happen in that there'd be more hate spewed about.
  198. [3:56:23pm] [LegoAlchemist] These people were so fearful of wikia's changes that they moved their entire wiki to a different website.
  199. [3:56:36pm] [LegoAlchemist] I would call that veeeery devoted.
  200. [3:56:51pm] [LegoAlchemist] Hey: Another advantage -
  201. [3:56:53pm] [LegoAlchemist] NO WIKIA.
  202. [3:57:08pm] KRCCFNF (18a7f435@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.167.244.53) has joined #wikia-kingdomhearts (Dec-26-2011)
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