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5/3 FP

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  1. == Topic for #futuristparty is: Next Meeting, Wednesday 5/7
  2. == idk18 [jake@user/idk18] has joined
  3. == ChanServ set mode +o idk18
  4. == AMAbot [AMAbot@Snoonet-5v3.ko3.meh4b3.IP] has joined
  5. == AMAbot [AMAbot@Snoonet-5v3.ko3.meh4b3.IP] has quit (Changing host)
  6. == AMAbot [AMAbot@user/Houshalter/bot/AMAbot] has joined
  7. == Houshalter [Houshalter@user/Houshalter] has joined
  8. idk18
  9. welcome, Houshalter
  10. Houshalter
  11. hello
  12. == EdEnlightenU [EdEnlighten@Snoonet-ed8.3em.8l5cmu.IP] has joined
  13. EdEnlightenU
  14. Hey
  15. idk18
  16. hey Ed
  17. EdEnlightenU
  18. are we doing stack tonight?
  19. idk18
  20. I thought we would
  21. in fact, do you want to facilitate?
  22. EdEnlightenU
  23. I could try... haven't dont it before
  24. idk18
  25. first time for everything
  26. Xenophon1
  27. idk18 will you take the honor?
  28. EdEnlightenU
  29. If we don't have too many people show then stack might not be necessary
  30. idk18
  31. I think it's good for someone new to do it as much as possible
  32. EdEnlightenU
  33. Having this sunday next week might be better than saturday
  34. Xenophon1
  35. Maybe once-a-week would be more popular
  36. idk18
  37. maybe. My sunday availability is iffy, but whatever the majority wants to do
  38. EdEnlightenU
  39. I kinda like meeting twice a week personally
  40. == Jet [Jet@Snoonet-90i.2mn.lnst46.IP] has joined
  41. idk18
  42. the drop in activity is to be expected
  43. EdEnlightenU
  44. Hey Jet
  45. Jet
  46. Hello
  47. EdEnlightenU
  48. Where are ya from?
  49. Jet
  50. North Carolina
  51. I ran into the subreddit a few days ago, got interested
  52. EdEnlightenU
  53. nice... anywhere close to UNC greensboro?
  54. Jet
  55. Yes actually, south Charlotte
  56. EdEnlightenU
  57. really cool one of my best friends just graduated from there this year
  58. Jet
  59. About an hours drive
  60. I hope this isn't going to be the max activity
  61. EdEnlightenU
  62. We'll start in 5 min
  63. idk18
  64. Jet: we're usually a bigger crowd
  65. Jet
  66. Alright cool
  67. idk18
  68. saturdays sound like they're not a good time for most folks
  69. xenophon1's suggestion of once a week might not be a bad.
  70. EdEnlightenU
  71. I did a major update to the website
  72. http://futurist-party.appspot.com/
  73. kitzibot
  74. [ Futurist Party ] - futurist-party.appspot.com
  75. EdEnlightenU
  76. Did a google venture layout
  77. idk18
  78. oooh, neat
  79. I like
  80. EdEnlightenU
  81. Only the main page is done.... the rest shouldn't be too hard though once the template is done
  82. Xeno or Jet any thoughts
  83. or Houshalter
  84. idk18
  85. so it's 9:10. We can probably start. Should we take a vote on whether to use the stack system? There's only 5 of us tonight, it looks like
  86. EdEnlightenU
  87. I'd say no
  88. Xenophon1
  89. no
  90. EdEnlightenU
  91. no
  92. idk18
  93. I
  94. will vote nay too
  95. lol
  96. but
  97. I wrote a thing up in anticipation of being in stack
  98. can I paste it in to start us off?
  99. EdEnlightenU
  100. sure
  101. idk18
  102. "Before going any farther, I want us to stop and examine the decision to create a political party.
  103. A political party is a machine. Donors input money to fund campaigns. Successful campaigns produce politicians who output policy which the donors support.
  104. We lack a donor list. But I think we all have an idea of who is most likely to fund our campaigns. That is, the newly made millionaires and billionaires of the technology industry. Men like Elon Musk and Pierre Omidyar. In a phrase, Silicon Valley Money.
  105. All discussion about organizing politically should confront how the organization will be funded. Without money, we risk becoming another fringe party, the type of party which is registered in a dozen states, has a thousand members, and occasionally runs a candidate for a state-wide office who gets 5% of the vote. In other words, if we don't tackle this issue we will remain irrelevant.
  106. I have a specific suggestion concerning this issue which I will propose later, but first I want to just start the conversation.
  107. /end
  108. EdEnlightenU
  109. I am in favor of staying a political party
  110. It's that or a think tank
  111. Jet
  112. The site looks great
  113. EdEnlightenU
  114. thanks
  115. The democratic party is just as corrupt as the republican
  116. Xenophon1
  117. Great insights. Money plays an inalienable role
  118. EdEnlightenU
  119. We're at infant stage
  120. we haven't tried to raise money....
  121. idk what do you propose instead?
  122. Xenophon1
  123. Rithius had a post
  124. http://www.reddit.com/r/futuristparty/comments/24kp9g/what_are_your_thoughts_on_money_in_politics/
  125. kitzibot
  126. [ What are your thoughts on money in politics? : futuristparty ] - www.reddit.com
  127. EdEnlightenU
  128. Isn't that more referring about lobbying?
  129. idk18
  130. lobbying is a part of it, but campaign contributions are huge
  131. EdEnlightenU: I guess you've already heard my proposal. The "think tank"
  132. I can copy that in here too if people'd like to read it
  133. Xenophon1
  134. Yeah that'd be great
  135. idk18
  136. So I call this the "three pronged" approach. The idea is to use the system to make the change, rather than biting at its angles
  137. part 1:
  138. A Think Tank and Public Awareness Institute, similar in function to the Heritage Foundation. At first glance this would probably be incorporated as a 501(c)3, though I need to do more research on the particulars. The purpose of this organization would be to change the content of political discourse. Like the Heritage Foundation helped make tax cuts the issue of the day, this organization would work to popularize a lot of the issues we are talking about (N
  139. 2. 501(c)4 organizations. A Political Action Committee to raise funds for candidates we support and a lobbyist organization to give us a voice in drafting legislation on the hill. Again, this is from the very sucessful Heritage Foundation model. They have a constellation of organizations which allow them to operate politically despite their non-political status as a 501(c)3.
  140. 3.Organizations to facilitate grass-roots campaigns. These would pop-up and fade away based on the on the issues of the day. For example, right now I feel we need to organize against the threats to Net Neutrality. These organizations would likely take the form of loose coalitions between our foundation and relevant groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and American Civil Liberties Union. Once steps 1. and 2. are accomplished, the resulting pol
  141. basically, we want to formulate ourselves as something that the silicon valley types, whose money we want, could believe we have the potential power to make change
  142. Xenophon1
  143. We have much to contemplate as our movement evolves.
  144. EdEnlightenU
  145. idk18 if we were to label ourselves as a think tank do you think we would get more or less interest?
  146. idk18
  147. we wouldn't be relabeling ourselves. We would be developing a pitch to groups like the Millenium Project, Machine Intelligence Institute, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Basic Income Network, etc. etc. that we need to enact the above plan.
  148. we need to move beyond the idea that this subreddit has any sort of significance
  149. EdEnlightenU
  150. We could still pitch them as the Futurist Party and they would be equally if not more interested
  151. idk18
  152. why is that?
  153. EdEnlightenU
  154. To support a party aligned with their interests
  155. idk18
  156. I'm sorry, but third parties don't work
  157. the only time a new party has ever succeeded is when the one it replaced was dying
  158. EdEnlightenU
  159. I mean that is the difference in our opinion
  160. The republican party is somewhat dying
  161. idk18
  162. and it's an extremely serious difference which deserves to be fully hashed out, because if I'm right then this party thing is a massive waste of time
  163. EdEnlightenU
  164. Why can't we do the things you're suggesting as the party is growing?
  165. idk18
  166. my basic point is that the party won't grow beyond the "registered in 12 states, ran a candidate who got 5% in a state election once" stage
  167. and so my alternative is something I think is feasible
  168. EdEnlightenU
  169. Why couldn't it be accomplished in parallel?
  170. Houshalter
  171. I don't recognize the website lol
  172. EdEnlightenU
  173. yea definitely changed it up a bit
  174. hah
  175. EdEnlightenU
  176. idk are yo uncomfortable doing both in parallel?
  177. == BipolarBear0 [BipolarBear@snoonet/operations-liason/BipolarBear0] has joined
  178. Xenophon1
  179. Greetings
  180. idk18
  181. EdEnlightenU, I think associating those organizations with a new political party will cause them to be stillborn
  182. if the funders we need aren't willing to fund a political party, then pitching them an idea which is linked to a third party will make it toxic
  183. EdEnlightenU
  184. we haven't approached the funders.... they may love the idea of funding our party...
  185. so it just as likely might be beneficial to be a think tank tied to our party
  186. Aren't there think tanks that exist that promote Net Neutrality?
  187. How would our think tank be any different?
  188. idk18
  189. I'm clearly not getting through
  190. no, we haven't approached them
  191. Xenophon1
  192. Free Press, Demand Progress
  193. Media Justice, Open Technology Institute
  194. BipolarBear0
  195. Do people want to make a political party/
  196. That / should be a ?
  197. EdEnlightenU
  198. Yes there is a lot of interest
  199. That's is what the people on the subreddit have been talking about the last month
  200. BipolarBear0
  201. Think about this
  202. EdEnlightenU
  203. every day
  204. BipolarBear0
  205. Gary Johnson -- wildly popular guy, left New Mexico with a $1 billion dollar surplus
  206. The biggest third party candidate in the past two decades
  207. Ran in 2012 and I actually helped organize a few of his events in Denver
  208. Gary Johnson got over 1 million votes in the 2012 election
  209. Which totalled... 1 percent of the national vote
  210. Now he's still speaking and touring, but the impact he had as a third party candidate? Almost nonexistent.
  211. And that's just his running as an LP candidate, which is the largest third party by a wide margin
  212. As an advocacy group there's a much larger potential to enact actual change than anything else
  213. Xenophon1
  214. Interesting thoughts. Good to hear from you.
  215. A major political party does not become one over night though.
  216. They start
  217. on the fringe.
  218. BipolarBear0
  219. The Libertarian Party has been in existence for 41 years
  220. 41 years later, Gary Johnson was the party's most successful candidate with 1 percent of the national vote
  221. EdEnlightenU
  222. We are promoting a new way of approaching politics
  223. idk18
  224. The socialists were a "successful" third party at the beginning of the 20th century, before the first red scare
  225. their best presidential campaign got 6% of the popular vote
  226. but socialism as a political ideology was much stronger
  227. and exercised its influence primarily through labor unions
  228. political movements just about always manifest themselves first outside the party system through various interest groups
  229. EdEnlightenU
  230. If you are against forming a political party, why did you join the Futurist Party subreddit?
  231. Xenophon1
  232. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Democratic_Party
  233. kitzibot
  234. [ History of the United States Democratic Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] - en.wikipedia.org
  235. idk18
  236. EdEnlightenU: because I do believe the political discourse needs to be changed to recognize the threat that constantly changing technology represents to our social fabric
  237. and the Futurist Party looked like an attempt to address that concern
  238. Houshalter
  239. well if everyone skeptical left, you'd just be a bunch of overly optimistic people reinforcing your own optimism
  240. EdEnlightenU
  241. Do you think the people who come to these IRC meetings would continue if it was a think tank rather than the Futurist Party?
  242. Jet would you have come if it was a think tank?
  243. idk18
  244. do I care?
  245. I'm not sure
  246. EdEnlightenU
  247. Who would be the think tank
  248. Houshalter
  249. isn't there already a think tank
  250. idk18
  251. In my experience, most of the people who get caught up in IRC excitement disappear after a week or two
  252. EdEnlightenU
  253. Have you considered getting involved with an already existing think tank that is doing the things you are talking about?
  254. Xenophon1
  255. Skepticism is critical. But there is a dichotomy between support and opposition
  256. EdEnlightenU
  257. Wouldn't it be much more effort to start an entirely new think tank if they already exist?
  258. The Futurist Party doesn't exisit
  259. It is new
  260. [ChanServ]
  261. Foundership transfer from idk18 to Xenophon1 forced by Snoonet administration.
  262. idk18
  263. :)
  264. You make good points
  265. BipolarBear0
  266. !fflags idk18 -*
  267. [ChanServ]
  268. BipolarBear0 forced flags change -AORfhiorstv on idk18.
  269. idk18
  270. I'm going to leave you guys to it
  271. I hope I introduced useful processes for IRC management
  272. best of luck to you all in this endeavor, I hope you succeed!
  273. Xenophon1
  274. from my experience, I have come from a Think-Tank. I have been loosely involved as a volunteer with non-profits and foundations ever since I worked with MIRI. I believe that many of them, from this future-centric culture I experienced at the Singularity Summit and Singularity University, suffer a similar illness.
  275. This common illness is a distinct impotence. There is no unified banner. No widespread social momentum.
  276. The holders of real seats in congress are wary to adopt the opinions of these groups. They work with them, they sidestep them. If they want to find themselves in another term, they holders of these places of power must court the multiplicity of opinions and goals.
  277. == idk18 [jake@user/idk18] has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  278. == idk18 [jake@Snoonet-bqu0vn.js0m.3m0k.tc7gpp.IP] has joined
  279. Xenophon1
  280. I think that alongside schenbergs steps he have carefully outlined, there is no mutual exclusiveness to an effective third party
  281. believe a third party could not only represent all these initiatives but unite them and guide them with a single banner, a single logo, a single idea
  282. == idk18 is now known as Guest29512
  283. == Guest29512 [jake@Snoonet-bqu0vn.js0m.3m0k.tc7gpp.IP] has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  284. Xenophon1
  285. If we launch a third party, we could achieve the institutionalization of this singular idea. The same as the Green Party represents a national institutionalization of sustainability, we might cement a national institutionalization of forward thinking and long-term solutions.
  286. BipolarBear0
  287. Do you want to represent an ideal, or do you want to accomplish an ideal
  288. Xenophon1
  289. We do not know what the future holds.
  290. BipolarBear0
  291. Because the Green Party sure as hell represents an ideal, but they haven't accomplished anything
  292. Xenophon1
  293. Agreed.
  294. I vote to adjourn this meeting. 7.05
  295. EdEnlightenU
  296. ok
  297. EdEnlightenU
  298. I have some family over having a bofire
  299. I'll catch up with you guys soon
  300. Xenophon1
  301. Live long and prosper
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