Smash Bros. mechanics with Brian and FirstaLasto

-->|	|3rian (mibbit@50.185.123.92) has joined #sw
	FirstaLasto	melee and pm extremists really piss me off sometimes :V
	Mega	Ken was just shocked about the grab.
	|3rian	really firstalasto
	|3rian	good timing
	FirstaLasto	yeah i saw a lot of videos of marth players spamming grab at close range and missing entirely
	Mega	Hoenstly, everyone would be when you miss an easy grab three times.
	|3rian	Mega you always want to space max distance grab range
	Mega	Seems that Nintendo didn't allow them to play test it for a bit.
	FirstaLasto	but they did playtest it
	FirstaLasto	for like 2 hours
	|3rian	otherwise people will read your run up grab and spot dodge
	Mega	Well shit.
	Timson	for 4 hours
	FirstaLasto	oh 4 even
	Timson	they had really nice rooms
	Mega	Ken dun goofed during the event then.
	Mega	"I'm going to use Marth, finally"
	Mega	"I better not test his grab"
	FirstaLasto	hard to get used to a change like that i guess
	Timson	they looked sooooo nice ;_;
	Mega	"I definitely won't need that during the Invitational, nope"
	FirstaLasto	in only 4 hours
	|3rian	Mega you cant blame me when i have melee marth's grab range fully memorized for 10 years
	|3rian	come now
	FirstaLasto	oh |3brian did you see that message lol
	Timson	|3brian
	|3rian	i did thank you very much
	Timson	THREE BRIANS?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!?
	FirstaLasto	on my screen it shows you joining after i sent it
	|3rian	i saw it you dick
	Timson	:|O
	FirstaLasto	okay then
	=-=	|3rian was booted from #sw by Mega (Now that was just unnecessary.)
	FirstaLasto	it wasnt aimed at you or anything
	FirstaLasto	...
	-->|	|3rian (mibbit@50.185.123.92) has joined #sw
	FirstaLasto	...it wasnt aimed at you or anything
	|3rian	now now he clearly he meant me
	FirstaLasto	uh no
	|3rian	who is the only melee player you guys interact with
	Mega	If you're going to just be paranoid and ruin the mood, you can quite frankly leave.
	FirstaLasto	we were talking about the invitational tourney
	FirstaLasto	and mentioned the players who hated it and said they would go back to pm
	FirstaLasto	and then i said that
	|3rian	Firstalasto you dont understand why people love melee
	Mega	Brian.
	FirstaLasto	we werent talking about you, seriously
	Mega	You can shut up or leave.
	Mega	It's an option.
	Mega	Let's leave it as an option.
	|3rian	you guys are misinformed
	FirstaLasto	i love melee, i just love the other games more
	|3rian	there is legit reason to hate the smash 4 demo
	Mega	It's a fucking demo.
	FirstaLasto	by the way
	Mega	TF2 got rehauled three times before release.
	|3rian	how much is gonna change mega?
	|3rian	how much
	Timson	can't I look at stage hacks in peace ;_;
	FirstaLasto	how different was the e for all demo compared to brawl
	FirstaLasto	what changed?
	|3rian	it was like 90% brawl firstalasto according to PPU
	Timson	I heard the E for All demo had L-cancelling
	Timson	no source though
	Timson	*no reliable source
	FirstaLasto	lolwat
	|3rian	and melee players
	|3rian	hate brawl-like games
	|3rian	if you dont understand that
	|3rian	that's fine
	FirstaLasto	i understand that, its pretty clear :V
	|3rian	just dont say Melee players should love brawl or smash 4
	FirstaLasto	why else would they spend all day complaining about brawl
	|<--	JamesHeart has left irc.gamesurge.net (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243])
	FirstaLasto	ohi james
	Timson	cya James
	Timson	:<
	|3rian	Melee players dont find much appeal that smash 4 or brawl are "smash games"
	|3rian	they only care about actual gameplay
	FirstaLasto	you mean the tiny cast of viable characters and the excessive exploitation of the physics engine?
	|3rian	well well you are really ignorant
	|3rian	it's in the game and people use it
	FirstaLasto	...so yes?
	|3rian	No firstalasto
	|3rian	in Melee you can be consistent with like 6 characters
	|3rian	in brawl
	|3rian	it's like 2
	|3rian	maybe 4
	FirstaLasto	in brawl metaknight is totally broken, ill give you that
	|3rian	Firstalasto before you say it
	|3rian	no Fox and Falco arent "totally broken"
	|3rian	they have clear weaknesses unlike MK
	FirstaLasto	but outside of metaknight there are many more viable characters for tournament play. and besides, what does that have to do with smash 4?
	StarCraft	|3rian: Is Melee the only Smash game that exists?
	|3rian	No starcraft but it has the best gameplay of any smash game
	|3rian	No firstalasto they dont win consistently as MK
	|3rian	that's huge
	|3rian	tournament viable means you can get top 4 consistently WITH MK legal
	FirstaLasto	"what does that have to do with smash 4"?
	|3rian	because Smash 4 looks like it has brawl-esqe gameplay
	|3rian	floatiness
	|3rian	no ground move options
	|3rian	overpowered rolls
	|3rian	ground movement*
	FirstaLasto	did you play the smash 4 demo? the characters feel pretty weighted compared to brawl. as for the overpowered defensive capabilities, the shields are much more fragile and many characters can 1-hit them
	|3rian	Heavy =/= fall fast + fluid ground movement
	FirstaLasto	i didnt mean heavy, by weighted i mean they dont feel floaty
	|3rian	do you play Melee?
	|3rian	do you know how fast spacies fall?
	FirstaLasto	prior to brawls release it was my mos played game
	|3rian	yea that aint special
	FirstaLasto	...uh, okay.
	|3rian	EVERYONE played melee before brawl
	|3rian	but you dropped melee because brawl came out
	|3rian	and you never played competitively
	|3rian	so you cant possibly have a feel for it
	FirstaLasto	true, I didn't. i found wavedashing to be silly.
	|3rian	Wavedashing is good
	FirstaLasto	thats the main reason i never picked it up compeitively
	|3rian	just cuz you dont know how to do it doesnt mean it's bad
	Timson	wavedashing is a neat mechanic but isn't necessary for making a Smash game good
	|3rian	Timson i know that but something that allows you to make quick changes in your movement spacing would do nothing but help
	|3rian	1 of wavedashing or dash dancing needs to return to make ground approaches viable
	FirstaLasto	dash dancing did return, actually
	|3rian	no it didnt
	Timson	cheer for bandana dee at San Diego comic-con?
	Timson	:D
	|3rian	Firstalasto dash dancing = LONG melee dash dancing
	|3rian	brawl dash dancing is horrible
	FirstaLasto	brawl dash dancing IS horrible, especially because of random pratfalls
	|3rian	no
	|3rian	tripping is a MINOR issue
	|3rian	dash dance LENGTH
	|3rian	is what matters
	FirstaLasto	but in smash 4 theres actual dash dancing, hold on ill see if i can find the video
	|3rian	no firstalasto you are wrong
	|3rian	people have tested smash 4 dash dancing
	|3rian	you cant use it the way Melee players want to use it
	|3rian	in fact it has no use without it's melee functionality
	FirstaLasto	yeah I cant seem to find it
	FirstaLasto	oh well
	|3rian	trust me
	|3rian	no one can use smash 4 dash dancing meaningfully
	FirstaLasto	okay then
	FirstaLasto	did you hear about the new pivot tilts and pivot smashes?
	|3rian	yes
	|3rian	but you can only do the attacks in the direction you pivot
	|3rian	you cannot run and then do an f smash in the direction you originally ran
	FirstaLasto	even with a double pivot?
	|3rian	you cannot double pivot
	|3rian	you cant run -> turnaround -> turnaround
	|3rian	because to do a turnaround you need to be running
	FirstaLasto	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTHyYHin2lg seems you can double pivot glide toss
	FirstaLasto	guess thats the only double pivot that works then
	|3rian	Firstalasto no
	|3rian	you turnaround with the item tos
	|3rian	throwing an item toss turns your character automatically
	FirstaLasto	so only the input is a double pivot
	|3rian	no firstalasto
	|3rian	that 3rd direction inpuit
	|3rian	is an item toss
	|3rian	it looks like this ->, <-, (-> + Z)
	|3rian	the parathesis mean
	|3rian	(-> + z) is 1 input
	FirstaLasto	yes, but you're still pressing forward back forward, thats what i meant
	|3rian	but it doesnt pivot your charater
	|3rian	the item toss is the source of the second pivot
	|3rian	if you had tried to do an f tilt
	|3rian	you would do an f tilt in the direction of your first pivot
	FirstaLasto	yeah, you explained that
	FirstaLasto	i understand now
	FirstaLasto	thanks
	|3rian	so this is only situational
	|3rian	dash dancing is better
	FirstaLasto	probably