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Able_Tome

Armor Discussion [Orange, Ferric, Able]

Able_Tome
Nov 18th, 2014
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  1. [19:21:11] <Orange_Burst> hey able
  2. [19:24:57] <Able_Tome> aeiou
  3. [19:28:22] <Orange_Burst> wanted to talk about those breastplates that i had ordered when i was captain
  4. [19:29:28] <Able_Tome> Oh? In what sense?
  5. [19:30:26] <Orange_Burst> well, they should be ready by now i would guess
  6. [19:30:33] <Orange_Burst> thats one thing
  7. [19:31:21] <Orange_Burst> but also stat wise for slss...
  8. [19:32:55] <Able_Tome> I suppose those would've been more of a Strong's thing. SLSS wise, those would be considered 'scaled armor' tier (+6AC) at best while maluses and 'experice' required to wear 'em = to breastplate's
  9. [19:34:50] <Able_Tome> Ah
  10. [19:34:55] <Able_Tome> Scale Mail 500 +5 +3 -4 5
  11. [19:34:55] <Able_Tome> Chain Mail 1500 +6 +2 -5 6
  12. [19:34:55] <Able_Tome> Breastplate 2000 +6 +3 -4 5
  13. [19:35:28] <Orange_Burst> so basically just like scale mail then?
  14. [19:35:51] <Orange_Burst> thats acceptable
  15. [19:36:15] <Orange_Burst> also they would need to have medium armor perks to wear them properly
  16. [19:36:17] <Able_Tome> Basically, but with lower 'situational' protection. Breastplate is defined by the fact that it protects only torso
  17. [19:36:28] <Orange_Burst> yes
  18. [19:37:01] <Orange_Burst> oh and i wanted to talk to you about ferric's armor that he makes
  19. [19:37:31] <Orange_Burst> he offered to make me two suits of scale mail. i'm to assume it won't count as such?
  20. [19:39:44] <Able_Tome> Counts as 'Scale Armor', but aat lower AC
  21. [19:39:59] <Able_Tome> And it should take him time to create those
  22. [19:40:13] <Orange_Burst> he said a week
  23. [19:40:21] <Orange_Burst> would it take longer?
  24. [19:41:14] <Orange_Burst> but on a good note, all the guards have upgraded armor now which is nice
  25. [19:41:41] <Orange_Burst> i'll talk to mary in pm's about it and possible train to have the guards efficient at it
  26. [19:41:48] <Able_Tome> With our 'tools', yep... 2-3 weeks? Month? Dunno... more than a week for sure
  27. [19:41:57] <Able_Tome> Yep yep
  28. [19:42:11] <Orange_Burst> ok i'll talk to ferric about it
  29. [19:53:39] <Orange_Burst> welp, seems ferric doesn't like what you said...
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  33. [19:51:10] <Ferric> No.
  34. [19:51:14] <Ferric> One week.
  35. [19:51:21] * Able_Tome points at MC
  36. [19:51:31] <Ferric> MC can suck a dick.
  37. [19:51:37] <Ferric> One week.
  38. [19:51:42] <Able_Tome> Been said months ago that with our tools 1 week is not feasable in any conceivable way.
  39. [19:51:53] <Ferric> How the fuck not.
  40. [19:52:27] <Ferric> I'm getting really tired of havin to fight with the damn MC just to do my job THE WAY IT'S DONE.
  41. [19:53:46] <Ferric> Are you a blacksmith? Is *ANYONE* on the MC a blacksmith?
  42. [19:54:14] <Able_Tome> 1) Blacksmith fuckers don't track shit in resource charts nor hold any accountability
  43. [19:54:14] <Able_Tome> 2) Blacksmith faggots never upgraded their toolset, nor ever discussed about ordering proper inventory which translates into shit tier tools of ye olde - something that would be a pain in the arse to use for manufacturing
  44. [19:54:14] <Able_Tome> 3) The issue was discussed months ago and no 'IC' developments were showed to improve situation.
  45. [19:54:14] <Able_Tome> 4) Bullshit 'lessss do eet offscreen' and 'IM ZEE MASTUUUUR' to circumvent tech limitations don't work
  46. [19:54:42] <Ferric> And after all the shit I gave Strong metal about realism? Trust me, I'm not gonna "lol i can make a chain shirt overnight"
  47. [19:54:49] <Able_Tome> 5) If one wants to increase efficiency in production times, one needs to show that he either acquired help or improved inventory
  48. [19:55:02] <Able_Tome> It's not about whata you 'gave shit' in OOC
  49. [19:55:05] <Able_Tome> It's about IC
  50. [19:55:33] <Able_Tome> There was no IC progress to develop the shop, or order tools, or improve tech, or try to acquire additional workforce
  51. [19:55:39] <Able_Tome> So pls
  52. [19:55:50] <Ferric> What tech do I need? I have my hammers, my tongs, a vice, hardy for cutting metal, punches, and I DID order a tap and die set for threading pieces.
  53. [19:56:45] <Ferric> And tell me where to log metal requisitions and I will do so.
  54. [19:57:29] <Able_Tome> First of all you have to realize that you're a horse and lack of fingers are going to screw your manufacturing time. Try doing all that while holding your hands in fists (with a leverage that horses also 'stand' on these fists)
  55. [19:57:37] <Ferric> Of course, it's not all that fair that I be expected to do so as nearly NOBODY does, but I will comply if it gets ya'll off my back and ya'll let me work.
  56. [19:58:19] <Ferric> Lemme explain the process of making lamellar (scale) armor to you.
  57. [19:58:34] * Ferric draws iron ingot out into a bar.
  58. [19:59:16] * Ferric cuts bar by slapping it on top of a Hardy (basically a chisel that sticks out of the top of the anvil) and hits it with a hammer.
  59. [19:59:47] * Ferric pops four holes in each scale using a punch.
  60. [20:00:01] * Ferric lashes all the scales together with rope or cord.
  61. [20:00:07] <Ferric> Armor done.
  62. [20:00:38] <Ferric> Aside form the lashing, which can be done with magic (TK) what requires fine dexterity?
  63. [20:00:44] <Ferric> None of it.
  64. [20:05:19] <Able_Tome> My point regarding lack of hands stands. Try to do the very same thing without 'fingers' or a proper grip: using your mouth for example to strike that hammer (that force would've killed off teeth if hand+arm's usual strength would've been applied during metal working)
  65. [20:05:48] <Able_Tome> TK is good, but it lacks the muscle force to make strikes more powerful
  66. [20:06:15] <Able_Tome> All this naturally slows down the process in comparison to a human, unless 'something' is used to substitute that
  67. [20:06:44] <Ferric> 1) Not neccesarily. Blacksmithing relies on the weight of the hammer and gravity, you don't force your hammer unless you're working fire-hard alloy steels, the kind we don't have.
  68. [20:06:47] <Able_Tome> with 'something' being something that blacksmiths haven't IC'd proposing to order/create/use
  69. [20:07:34] <Ferric> 2) Was it not determined long ago that we've got that weird hoof-grip? If not, how does anyone do anything?
  70. [20:08:58] <Ferric> Also, as for strange hoof-grip, IT'S IN SHOW CANNON
  71. [20:09:00] <Able_Tome> Weight of the hammer and gravity = grip + arm's reach = lower in horses due to mouth-neck limitation (but better grip) and still lower with hoof-grip limitation (even with 'magnetic' grip, your hoof just can be reliably compared to a proper digit-grip). The hoof-grip goes in comparison to griffon lore.
  72. [20:09:02] <Ferric> *Canon
  73. [20:09:38] <Able_Tome> It is, but it's not comparable to proper finger/talon grip, which introduces reasonable limitations.
  74. [20:10:03] <Able_Tome> I don't see why you, from player perspective, would want to go the easy route and circumvent interesting limitations
  75. [20:10:20] <Ferric> Able, can you not see that you're just grasping at straws because all your other arguments have fallen apart?
  76. [20:10:59] <Ferric> I don't see why you, from MC perspective, are against the idea of people doing their damn jobs.
  77. [20:11:01] <Able_Tome> No, the arguments were presented months ago and were agreed on which I'm clearly stated to you.
  78. [20:11:29] <Able_Tome> Yet you continue want to push for the 'easy route' without even a drop of attempt to keep the game challenging, interesting and diverse
  79. [20:11:50] <Able_Tome> Being a 'human macho' doesn't turns you into a 'horse macho' by default because 'lelmagiczzz'
  80. [20:12:41] <Able_Tome> You've been presented with a challenge, now go and solve it and create fun for yourself and those around you by discussing the problem, inventing solutions, working on the thing and making RP experience diverse
  81. [20:13:06] <Able_Tome> Instead of hrmp'ing and acting silly
  82. [20:13:13] <Ferric> [14:12] <Ferric> Do these faggots really expect me to log in and solo a detailed rp ALL BY MY SELF for eight hours a day?
  83. [20:13:25] <Ferric> quoted from my PM with orange.
  84. [20:13:57] <Ferric> The point of a game is fun. Writing an essay every day isn't fun.
  85. [20:15:17] <Able_Tome> 1) You haven't RP'd it even once
  86. [20:15:17] <Able_Tome> 2) You haven't RP'd it through IC discussions or showed how the shop works
  87. [20:15:17] <Able_Tome> 3) You still haven't kept the resource log updated, even though you've been told by others (iirc) to do it.
  88. [20:15:17] <Able_Tome> 4) You've had a history with 'funny' upgrades -> soliciting money from Hidden and some other folks just to bull off 'lel +4AC from 2AC'.
  89. [20:15:56] <Able_Tome> Upgrades which were removed too the moment they were noticed by MC and how they were breaking the system
  90. [20:15:57] <Ferric> "funny uprgrades?
  91. [20:16:07] <Able_Tome> Yes, funny upgrades.
  92. [20:16:08] <Ferric> Like steel?
  93. [20:16:19] <Ferric> The existence of steel is game breaking?
  94. [20:16:39] <Able_Tome> "lelsteel" is game breaking
  95. [20:17:08] <Ferric> "Define lelsteel? Because I've only ever made traditionally available crucible steel.
  96. [20:17:09] <Able_Tome> It doesn't adds anything substantial into experience besides "lelsolicitingmoney" and "lelimmacoolsmithwithoutrp"
  97. [20:17:20] <Able_Tome> That's "lelsteel"
  98. [20:17:23] <Ferric> And what money am I soliciting?
  99. [20:18:04] <Able_Tome> There were accounts of people passing bits to you for 'products' that were retconned in the past. Don't play the ignorance game, please.
  100. [20:18:13] <Ferric> Every commision I've ever done has costed either 1)The materials used in the product.
  101. [20:18:26] <Ferric> (IE, 'free')
  102. [20:18:28] <Able_Tome> (which were never documented)
  103. [20:18:38] <Ferric> 2) Bartered for goods
  104. [20:18:49] <Able_Tome> (the 'free' aspect btw implies that part of the money you earn go towards town's coffers(
  105. [20:19:02] <Able_Tome> (otherwise those are not 'free' materials)
  106. [20:19:08] <Ferric> (like the case with Orange Burst)
  107. [20:19:38] <Ferric> 3) for future Favors, (like when Resheph commisioned a sword)
  108. [20:19:48] <Ferric> And as for "free"
  109. [20:20:15] <Ferric> I don't question where other players get their inventory. I'm not the RP police.
  110. [20:21:06] <Ferric> If they say they've got five kilos of iron ore, I make 1.5 kilos of steel.
  111. [20:21:20] <Ferric> I don't care where it came from.
  112. [20:22:34] <Able_Tome> Resource tracking is there for a reason. When a smith takes 'free' resources, he obliges them to use for the benefit of town, not solicit profits at town's expense. Majority of players don't have access to any substantial mineral resources - most of those are supplied through warehouses. If players do, they have 'ore' which needs to be converted using town's inventory (say hello to those low-tech bloomeries that are shit at steel making - something that was never upgraded nor RP'd nor mentioned that they need to be upgraded.... well, except for Strong Metal who actually attended meetings and was proposing bossomer converter and alike)
  113. [20:22:48] <Able_Tome> Now for 'RP police', this is a community game
  114. [20:23:07] <Able_Tome> If you don't care about keeping game consistent, you can thank yourself as being part of the problem
  115. [20:24:03] <Able_Tome> I'm saying this from the neutral point view...
  116. [20:24:10] <Ferric> I didn't say I TOOK free resources, you english illiterate moron. I said I CHARGED CUSTOMERS in resources, so all told, the customer GOT THEIR ARMOR FOR FREE
  117. [20:24:13] <Able_Tome> ... given resource log and other antagonistic stuff
  118. [20:24:34] <Ferric> Because they already own the resources, I turned the resources into usable products.
  119. [20:24:55] <Able_Tome> Well then, talk with you when you'll cool off that hot head of yours, Ferric.
  120. [20:24:55] <Ferric> I netted nothing, so I WORKED for free.
  121. [20:25:32] * Able_Tome is not going to discuss anything on patient notes when someone explodes into 'monor' and other 'easy route' crap
  122. [20:25:42] <Able_Tome> *moron even
  123. [20:25:49] <Able_Tome> Enjoy your day.
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