(14:18:40) <Oddity> zzz
(14:18:54) <Oddity> Let's talk about things that are more interesting, like H&H development.
(14:19:07) <loftar> Don't snore in the presence of others, you uncultured swine.
(14:19:08) <Oddity> Bring back murder LP!  New game mechanics for W7!
(14:20:11) <loftar> Well, I can't tell if it will become W7, but Jorb and I are certainly discussing... changes to the game mechanics. :)
(14:20:46) <ArvinJA> ^-- wiki worthy?
(14:20:52) <DDDsDD999> <Mvpeh> Add rape
(14:20:57) <Oddity> such as? :o
(14:21:07) <loftar> Well, truth be told, we want to remake a lot of things.
(14:21:20) <loftar> I think Jorb wrote about the reasons and consequences somewhere on the forums recently.
(14:21:32) <ArvinJA> is it true that you're re-writing the basic game engine?
(14:21:43) <loftar> Well, I was doing that a year ago. :)
(14:21:58) <loftar> Now I *have* rewritten the basic game engine, and I'm using that for Salem.
(14:22:02) <loftar> I want to use it for Haven, too.
(14:22:04) <DDDsDD999> :D
(14:22:20) <ArvinJA> aweomse
(14:22:24) <loftar> http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=290666#p290666
(14:22:29) <loftar> That's the post I was thinking of.
(14:22:47) <ArvinJA> loftar, what is your true forever-project, salem or HnH (you don't have to answer)?
(14:22:57) <loftar> Haha :)
(14:23:08) <loftar> I consider Haven my forever-project, that much is true. :)
(14:23:28) <loftar> I would like to make major changes to it, however, so it might not be Haven as you know it. :)
(14:23:53) <ArvinJA> woah
(14:23:59) <DDDsDD999> As long as you can kill it's still haven.
(14:24:03) <DDDsDD999> Oh shi-
(14:24:40) <DDDsDD999> Also watching numbers go up, that's important.
(14:24:40) <loftar> The intention is that the changes be for the better, though. ;)
(14:27:32) <ArvinJA> loftar, how far away are these major changes?
(14:27:40) <loftar> Too far. :/

(12:15:41) <loftar> The current big project in Salem is getting support for multiple server. After that, I and Jorb are hoping that Salem will transition more into content updates, which will hopefully leave time for Haven on the side.
(12:16:31) <Projeear> Any quotably timescales on that, however vague?
(12:16:35) <loftar> Mind you, Haven needs so much updating on the backend that we're rather considering a rewrite than an update.
(12:16:46) <Projeear> I'd agree with that.
(12:16:47) <loftar> It has so much craft that needs trimming anyway.
(12:16:51) <loftar> cruft*
(12:16:59) <Projeear> Cruft? o_o
(12:17:18) <loftar> Well, you know all those mechanics that hardly even make sense, like Personal Beliefs.
(12:17:31) <Projeear> I quite like those..
(12:17:40) <Projeear> Well, no, I guess I don't.
(12:17:42) <loftar> It's a fun idea that I'd like to reuse per se, but the current implementation isn't very interesting.
(12:18:03) <Projeear> I like what they imply and persuade/enforce,
(12:18:06) <Projeear> But it's a little linear.
(12:18:19) <loftar> And most of them don't even have an appreciable effect. :)
-
(12:20:42) <loftar> If anything, though, something I'd really like to do with Haven, is to make it less... "mechanical".
(12:21:06) <Projeear> Tell me more.
(12:21:38) <loftar> Hmmm... I'm not sure how to properly express the idea.
(12:22:00) <Projeear> Less logical?
(12:22:00) <loftar> It just disturbs me that the characters just become a spreadsheet and there's no magic in the world.
(12:22:18) <Projeear> In that case, you mean you want more randomisation.
(12:22:26) <loftar> No, I don't think so. :)
(12:22:35) <loftar> Randomization tends to suck in general. :)
(12:22:36) <Projeear> Rather than being able to plan out the development of your character over the next month, without expecting a hitch.
(12:22:49) <loftar> If anything, I think what is necessary is hidden state.
(12:23:24) <Projeear> Hidden State?
(12:23:29) <Projeear> I haven't heard of that term before.
(12:23:30) <loftar> Layers of mechanics that behave predictably in themselves, but cannot be observed directly.
(12:23:45) <loftar> Randomization tends to suck because being dealt a bad hand by the RNG is just boring.
(12:24:01) <Projeear> But therein lies challenge!
(12:24:08) <loftar> But things that were supposed to happen, only that you couldn't predict them is more like fate. :)
(12:24:19) <Projeear> Pressing the endorphine-release button for us gamers.
(12:24:33) <Projeear> Hm..
(12:24:35) <loftar> Ah, don't get me wrong. Randomization has its places.
(12:24:38) <Projeear> Problem with that is, the wiki.
(12:24:55) <Projeear> As soon as it's observed, it's documented and learned by others before it happens to them.
(12:25:04) <Projeear> The quality system, or fishing, for example.
(12:25:25) <loftar> But my point is that it can't be directly observed.
(12:25:56) <Projeear> Only the effects?
(12:25:57) <loftar> Then it's just a point of making it complex enough that various descriptions and theories about the system will compete with another. :)
(12:26:06) <Projeear> I see.
(12:26:06) <loftar> And TBT, it's not like fishing has been figured out. ;)

(18:52:34) <Oddity> When will H&H development resume at pre-July-2010 pace?
(18:53:15) <loftar> That's a good question, Oddity. :)
(18:53:29) <loftar> I mean, for one thing, even when I can work more actively on it, there's a lot of rewriting to do.
(18:55:25) <Oddity> loftar can you tell us more
(18:55:28) <Oddity> Give us some ballparks etc.
(18:55:55) <loftar> More about what? The precise schedule for Haven development? :)
(18:56:07) <loftar> If so, there is none, just as how there isn't really one for Salem development either. ;)
(18:58:00) <Oddity> loftar, can you guess how much H&H writing there will be before we see "We've been developing tonight and here's what's new." a few times a month again?
(18:58:28) <loftar> Last I calculated the different, Alg, I came to the conclusion that about 5% of logged-in accounts were alts playing on the same IP address.
(18:58:39) <Alg> how long ago was that?
(18:59:18) <loftar> I don't quite remember. Perhaps 1 - 1.5 years ago, or so.
(18:59:26) <Alg> I would try a more recent one loftar
(18:59:40) <Alg> thats about the time when people started botting more frequently
(19:00:13) <loftar> I could guess, Oddity, but I'd dead wrong anyway, so I won't try. :)
(19:00:27) <ewlol> loftar, do you ever plan to work on HNH again
(19:01:02) <loftar> I certainly do, ewlol, but it should be said that it might not be Haven as you know it now.

(19:00:51) <ewlol> do you think that salem will occupy much of your time after it has been released
(19:01:08) <Oddity> loftar does a fire in your belly still burn with passion for H&H, the way it did back in 2009 when you were churning out developments every 4-6 days on average?
(19:01:17) <ewlol> how much development must happen after salem is released
(19:01:35) <ewlol> see here is what boggles my mind. how do you ever plan to work on HNH again once salem is released? i mean, MMOs are continuous
(19:01:46) <ewlol> they require continuous development
(19:01:55) <loftar> Of course not in the same way, since I haven't worked on it actively for so long, but I do earnestly long to be able to work on Haven again.
(19:03:30) <ewlol> are you the only developer for Salem?
(19:03:46) <loftar> I have taught Jorb to do minor stuff like adding simple items.
(19:14:13) <loftar> I spent a lot of time outside that cleaning up the code, rewriting systems, pondering the architecture, &c&c&c
(19:14:23) <Zou> getting haircuts
(19:14:29) <loftar> I've never heard this haircut thing previously, though. ^^
(19:14:45) <Zou> Have you gotten a haircut recently?
(19:14:56) <loftar> I have actually. Just the other day. :)
(19:14:23) <ewlol> i just want a clear idea of how much went into adding in content in HnH
(19:15:02) <Oddity> loftar, so when you say "that it might not be Haven as you know it now" what exactly is going to change?
(19:15:53) <loftar> Well, it's not as if we have a ready-made plan, Oddity. :)
(19:16:20) <loftar> But seeing how detached we have become from the current state of Haven, we usually consider it more from a blank-slate state when we talk about it.
(19:16:25) <ewlol> have you worked on something very significant behind-the-scenes since the curiosity system
(19:16:27) <DDDsDD999> Oddity: There will be witches.
(19:17:09) <loftar> Well, for reference, ewlol, the vast majority of the stuff the Announcement posts announce were written in one night.

(19:36:00) <Oddity> Dear loftar, when will you remove the wretched and destructive "movement combat" from thy holy game?
(19:36:45) <loftar> The reason I don't really want to make changes to Haven at all right now is because I don't have the time to follow up on them and properly understand what effect they would have ingame.

(16:50:43) <Oddity> loftar do you think the pace of H&H development will ever be like it was in W3?
(16:52:10) <loftar> Why, I can only hope. Predicting the future isn't my forte, though. :)

A long time ago, during Salem alpha maybe I guess

[11/07/2012 8:35:18 PM] Oddity: (20:34:24) <loftar> Once that happens, I and Jorb hope to be able to start reworking Haven.
(20:34:31) <Aleck> loftar there is like 20 people in here
(20:34:35) <Aleck> that is your future player base
(20:34:36) <Oddity> How long approximately w ill that take?
(20:34:37) <Aleck> total
(20:34:52) <Zazzlazzle> Look Loftar salem has like 50 ppl HnH has like 300
(20:34:53) <Oddity> I would like Haven to be re-worked from the ground up with Murder LP and brickbashing and walljumping
(20:34:57) <Zazzlazzle> pls work on HnH
(20:35:02) <loftar> It's a bit hard to predict, obviously, but my basic estimate is about a month.
[11/07/2012 8:35:59 PM] Oddity: (20:35:20) <loftar> I would also like to rework Haven from the ground up, Oddity. :)
(20:35:31) <Zou> Do I need farming to harvest these field
(20:35:33) <Oddity> That is good to hear
(20:35:37) <Oddity> Will there be murder LP?
(20:35:46) <loftar> There will probably not be LP at all. ;)
(20:35:47) <Oddity> It is one of the most important parts of my H&H experience
(20:35:49) <Oddity> oh my god
(20:35:50) <PaleGrim_Newb> show me how to brick bash
(20:35:53) <Zou> LOFTAR THAT IS EXCELLENT.