[13:43:39] <Annalea> I gave up on that fight years ago
[13:43:42] <salvagebar> and Jenova's made four games I LOVE: Flower, Journey, flOw, and Cloud
[13:43:57] <Darlos9Dayjob> jumdush: you might think I'm kidding. I'm not
[13:43:58] <bluesoul> .g cloud that game company
[13:44:00] <Nala> bluesoul: http://thatgamecompany.com/games/cloud/ (thatgamecompany | TGC » Cloud) As thatgamecompany aka TGC our goal is to make video games communicating deeper and different emotional experiences the current video game market is ...
[13:44:43] <salvagebar> http://games.usc.edu/
[13:44:43] <Annalea> jumdush: Have you ever sat down with a career counselor and considered the ramifications of trying to break into the game design space?
[13:44:58] <jumdush> Annalea: no
[13:45:05] <Annalea> Also, have you considered what you would do if you failed to do so?
[13:45:11] <jumdush> i think i have some incredibly good ideas though
[13:45:22] <Darlos9Dayjob> idea men are a dime a dozen
[13:45:22] <jumdush> Annalea: maybe I'd be a game tester or something
[13:45:28] <Annalea> 'cause the most saddening thing is a kid who wants to write games come hell or high water and has absolutely no contingencies in place.
[13:45:32] <Tox> game testing is shit hard to do
[13:45:36] <Tox> er, get into
[13:45:40] <Tox> but do, too
[13:45:41] <Annalea> Also, hella boring.
[13:45:45] <jumdush> maybe a game programmer or something
[13:45:49] <jumdush> or a game development project manager
[13:45:51] <Annalea> "game testing" isn't "playing games all day"
[13:45:55] <Annalea> ...
[13:45:56] <Annalea> you know
[13:46:01] <Annalea> you just listed four different occupations
[13:46:06] <jumdush> i would also think about 3d modeling
[13:46:11] <Annalea> with vastly different skillsets and educational requirements
[13:46:13] <Darlos9Dayjob> Annalea: that contingencie should be "get any other programming job" because the field is huge and lucrative
[13:46:13] <Tox> None of which have anything to do with the others
[13:46:13] <Annalea> ... five, now
[13:46:17] <Annalea> Yeeeah.
[13:46:27] <salvagebar> jumdush you have tools available right now to make games
[13:46:29] <Annalea> Darlos: Not all game designers have a programming background.
[13:46:36] <Annalea> And there are ones that do fine without it.
[13:46:43] <salvagebar> If you take Unity or some other engine, and make a good game, you will learn SO MUCH
[13:46:46] <Annalea> The ones that don't tend to fall the hardest, though.
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[13:46:49] <Darlos9Dayjob> Annalea: its a safe-bet route though
[13:46:57] <Darlos9Dayjob> just saying
[13:47:07] <Annalea> I'm well aware.
[13:47:08] <Annalea> I was there.
[13:47:10] <Darlos9Dayjob> programming skills are applicable to just about any industry
[13:47:43] <Darlos9Dayjob> and as long as all your free time isn't eaten up by... something, you can use your time and money to do literally anything else you can dream of
[13:48:06] <jumdush> Darlos9Dayjob: I play a lot of WoW right now...trying to curb that
[13:48:21] <Darlos9Dayjob> jumdush: well be thankful its something you can willingly curb
[13:48:21] <salvagebar> I learned a lot about writing by working on a hack of an RPG I really like -- what kind of game do you want to MAKE, jumdush? I think that is Question One.
[13:48:28] <jumdush> Darlos9Dayjob: i'm not sure it is
[13:49:04] <Darlos9Dayjob> jumdush: well that's a whole different conversation
[13:49:21] <Annalea> >.>
[13:49:31] <Annalea> Just out of morbid curiosity, how old are you?
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[13:49:36] <thefran> The issue with MMOs is that their game design is horribly outdated.
[13:49:37] <Annalea> Still in high school, I'm assuming?
[13:49:40] <jumdush> 20
[13:49:48] <Annalea> Not in college yet?
[13:49:54] <jumdush> Annalea: morbid how?
[13:50:04] <Darlos9Dayjob> thefran: according to who? MMO's don't have an "issue" in my book
[13:50:14] <Annalea> Eh.
[13:50:24] <thefran> What do you mean according to who
[13:50:28] <Annalea> I see a lot of people who are legit candidates for game design
[13:50:29] <Darlos9Dayjob> I've played WoW. seems like a fine game
[13:50:39] <Annalea> And I see a /ton/ of kids who are just like "lol i wanna writ gaems"
[13:50:41] <thefran> are you trying to turn everything into an opinion
[13:50:41] <Darlos9Dayjob> I don't really get whats "outdated" about it
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[13:50:53] <thefran> and then claim no opinions can be wrong because they are subjective?
[13:50:53] <Darlos9Dayjob> maybe? tell me whats outdated about MMOs
[13:50:58] <Tox> thefran: you have -- what
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[13:51:02] <thefran> because i do not like that style of discussion.
[13:51:02] <Tox> I am literally confused
[13:51:14] <Darlos9Dayjob> okay. let's discuss what's outdated about MMOs
[13:51:18] <bluesoul> thefran you just revived something that was beat to death
[13:51:18] <salvagebar> thefran no that is not what he is trying to do
[13:51:20] <Annalea> Darlos: Don't bother talking with thefran.
[13:51:20] <thefran> The problem with MMOs is that their game design relies quite heavily on obfuscation and repetition.
[13:51:23] <Annalea> I'm serious.
[13:51:31] <Annalea> He books no alternate opinions, period.
[13:51:36] <Tox> jumdush: A guess -- you sound over-idealistic, like a starry-eyed youth who's about to nosedive into the pit of broken dreams
[13:51:41] <Annalea> I had a very long discussion with this the first time he was in here, culminating in ops handing out bans.
[13:51:44] <Annalea> So just don't bother.
[13:51:46] <Tox> not that that's a /bad/ thing mind you
[13:51:55] <Darlos9Dayjob> thefran: that could be said about almost any... form of entertainment
[13:51:58] <thefran> annalea can you be more mature and not tell people who to talk and not to talk to
[13:52:00] <Tox> but ambition must be tempered
[13:52:01] <Darlos9Dayjob> but this is a digression
[13:52:03] <Roget> http://i.imgur.com/BBIqg4u.png
[13:52:08] <thefran> for the record
[13:52:09] <thefran> i am here
[13:52:19] <Annalea> I'll do that once you're mature enough to understand that just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they're shitty people.
[13:52:35] <thefran> I did not say anything about "shitty people"
[13:52:38] <Annalea> Or that they're subhuman for enjoying different hings.
[13:52:40] <thefran> Stop putting words in my mouth.
[13:52:46] <Darlos9Dayjob> Tox: well okay let's not predict abject failure here
[13:53:17] <Annalea> I don't have to. You're the one who said that I have no right to call myself a gamer because I'm not hardcore, balls-to-the-wall viciously competitive
[13:53:29] <Tox> Darlos9Dayjob: Well, I'm not trying to be a super doomsayer or anything, /but/ the reality is that it's a lot harder than one thinks
[13:53:32] <Darlos9Dayjob> what I'm trying to get across to jumdush here is that "throw yourself all-in on game design" isn't necessarily the best or safest way to get into a position where you can comfortably make games
[13:53:35] <thefran> That is OF COURSE a misquote.
[13:54:13] <Darlos9Dayjob> focus on getting a degree that will get you a solid job that will pay well and not bust your balls with crazy hours
[13:54:17] <FortuneFavorsBold> Can I offer anyone a nice hot cup of cocoa on this blustery winter day?
[13:54:20] <FortuneFavorsBold> I like cocoa
[13:54:23] <FortuneFavorsBold> and puppies
[13:54:28] <Darlos9Dayjob> THEN use free time and money to make games
[13:54:32] <Annalea> I should make cocoa when I get home
[13:54:34] <thefran> but anyway the nature of mmo game design is that
[13:54:49] <Tox> thefran: let's not have this conversation
[13:54:53] <thefran> Ok
[13:54:57] <Tox> it will not likely go well for anyone
[13:55:05] <Darlos9Dayjob> not having a degree that is 100% game design doesn't mean the death of the dream of making games
[13:55:10] <Tox> :>
[13:55:12] * thefran wrote an essay on this a while a go and has a bunch of examples but whatever
[13:55:29] <Darlos9Dayjob> jumdush: what country do you live in
[13:55:45] <thefran> anyways getting into game design is
[13:55:49] <salvagebar> Nice cocoa
[13:55:52] <thefran> first of all it is tough.