* Now talking on #prizm
* grphmstur (~grphmstur@c-68-47-137-122.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) has joined #prizm
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<Pearfish> Hey everyone.
<Souvik> hi
<Banana> Hi
<alberthro> hi
<grphmstur> hi
<grphmstur> !op
<alberthro> 4 his :D
<grphmstur> no bots
* KermM_ (~KermM@cpe-74-68-127-73.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #prizm
* Pearfish is now known as Fishbot
<grphmstur> okay, so discussion?
<KermM_> Hi cool peeps
* Banana is now known as JosJuice
<Fishbot> Yeah, about the Prizm/CX thing.
<grphmstur> mmk.
<grphmstur> I'm working on your temp assembler btw Fishbot
<Fishbot> Thanks.
<Fishbot> Let's face it, though.
* Netham45 (~Netham@c-71-229-210-193.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #prizm
<Fishbot> While TI should be more supportive of the community, they aren't.
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<JosJuice> Melisma? D:
<KermM_> Fishbot, agreed
<grphmstur> bot
<Fishbot> But Casio also isn't going to get the widespread distribution of TI.
* Merth (~Shaun@c-24-34-13-226.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #prizm
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<grphmstur> Fishbot, agreed
<grphmstur> this is true KermM_
<alberthro> We need serious promotion.
<grphmstur> okay, this isn't a bot place alberthro
<grphmstur> #thebot is.
<Fishbot> Even that won't be enough.
<alberthro> Melisma is a bot :P
<grphmstur> I know, but we don't need MrAtom
<KermM_> Melisma is a channel reservation bot :P
<Fishbot> I think we need interoperability.
<grphmstur> I see KermM_
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<alberthro> KermM_: mine is too :P
<KermM_> Fishbot, therefore, we need to tell TI we're pissed, and teachers that TI is failing us
<grphmstur> well, fishbot's the only one opped here, so Fishbot, op Melisma
<grphmstur> agreed KermM_
<alberthro> ...and MrAtom :P
<Fishbot> !op Melisma
<Juju> lol
<Fishbot> Can't :p
<JosJuice> no, Fishbot :P
<grphmstur> but for the most part, TI has no interest in us.
<KermM_> Fishbot, you can't !op when you're the only op :P
<Netham45> Fishbot, you have to do /mode #prizm +o Melisma
 Usage: OP <nick>, gives chanop status to the nick (needs chanop)
<Souvik> do /op
<alberthro> Anyway, we have to define our focus.
* Fishbot gives channel operator status to Melisma
* Melisma sets mode +s #prizm
<KermM_> thanks Fishbot
* Fishbot gives channel operator status to MrAtom
<grphmstur> wait, does Melisma always secret rooms?
<grphmstur> !op
<Netham45> It's a good idea to secret them
<Netham45> efnet gets alot of spambots
<grphmstur> hey, alberthro, what's the command?
<Juju> some people would randomly join then spam
<grphmstur> $op
<grphmstur> nope.
<alberthro> question mark and the op
<Netham45> ?op
<alberthro> *then
<Souvik> ?op
<Netham45> :(
<grphmstur> ?op
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* MrAtom gives channel operator status to grphmstur
<grphmstur> there we go
<grphmstur> okay, anyway
<alberthro> lol :)
<Fishbot> Back on topic...
<KermM_> I set -secret on this chan
<alberthro> I'm worried about too many ops :P
<grphmstur> that's fine, anyway.
<alberthro> Anyway, it's not just teachers. We're also trying to promote it to students... and the hardest, to parents. To retailers. To everyone.
<Fishbot> So, what can we do to change the Prizm CX situation?
<grphmstur> back on topic, the only way that TI will care is if we reduce their market share by not buying their calcs.
<grphmstur> this is true alberthro.
<KermM_> Fishbot, three things:
<alberthro> I just visited Staples today, and the only calcs I saw were the TI made ones. No PRIZM to be found at all.
<KermM_> 1) Tell TI that we're pissed.  I'm working on that
<Netham45> Teachers love TI
<KermM_> 2) Tell teachers that TI is not looking out for everyone.  We need more ideas on this
<Netham45> 'cause they give them instructions, sample calcs, push-to-test, etc...
<Souvik> But, the developing community is insignificant compared to all the students and teachers that buy TI products
<grphmstur> this is true.
<KermM_> 3) Write a TI emulator for the PRizm
<KermM_> Prizm*
<alberthro> Souvik: that's one of the points I was going to make in that thread :)
<Souvik> z80man is working on one, right?
<Fishbot> Or write teacher software for the Prizm, which has the price advantage over the Nspire.
<JosJuice> I thought z80man is making a Prizm emu for the PC?
<alberthro> One of the things is this - you'd be having to give these guys away like MAD.
<grphmstur> in fact, right now, the only reason TI has a monopoly is their production size.  They can create huge amounts of calcs, and everyone uses them.  Plus, they're "cheap".  Cheap pieces of....
<alberthro> There's ZERO of these guys in my area.
<Fishbot> z80man is doing both, Josjuice.
<alberthro> Also, as grphmastur has mentioned, price.
<KermM_> You guys should be sure to copy some of these opinions into the thread on Cemetech, btw
<JosJuice> Oh okay, that's nice
<grphmstur> any bot's log in here?
<grphmstur> I can get mine going and start logging.
<Fishbot> Okay.
<KermM_> let's chill with the bots :P
<alberthro> $122.37 for PRIZM, $99.89 for a regular TI-83+.
<alberthro> (Amazon)
<grphmstur> well, I still have the records, so whatever.
<KermM_> $143 for the CX
<alberthro> XChat keeps records :P
<grphmstur> and let's factor the uber-calc in here too.
<Fishbot> When you're buying several hundred, those extra few dollars add up.
<KermM_> the what?
<Fishbot> Okay, $150
<grphmstur> It's price for standerd is around $150
<alberthro> CX is nothing you should look at - you're against the TI-83+ here.
<grphmstur> *standard
<KermM_> alberthro, I totally disagree
<KermM_> It's CX vs Prizm
<grphmstur> this is true.  But see, you have a color screen and a "great trustworthy" brand.
<KermM_> the TI-83+ is not relevant in this discussion
<Fishbot> Alberthro, we're trying to steal the CX's market, not the 83+'s
<grphmstur> Most teachers don't care about programming and other stuff.
<alberthro> Ahh, but parents are going to buy lowest stuff (the bare minimum), and so how are you going to overrun the market?
<grphmstur> we have to show it's not in their bets interests.
<Netham45> the CX has no market, and likely won't.
<Netham45> the 83+ is the real competitor
<Fishbot> We don't need to overrrun the 83+, only the CX.
<alberthro> Netham45++
<grphmstur> well, lower price more years, and better alberthro
<grphmstur> no, only the CX atm.
<grphmstur> because the TI-83 isn't a piece of.  Yeah.
<Netham45> You'll achieve nothing by overrunning the CX
<alberthro> an insight from my school - CX is pretty interesting, but they've said that it's somewhat overkill.
<Fishbot> The Prizm/CX and the 83+ series target different markets.
<alberthro> ahh, but to gain a significant marketshare, you've gotta target a bit there. Basically, between the Nspire reg and the TI-83+.
<alberthro> THAT's the sweet spot.
<Fishbot> That's right.
<Fishbot> But I think we need to target schools, not consumers.
<alberthro> The point being is that it's going to take some time and some serious promotion to get PRIZM to there.
<grphmstur> well, although I agree we need market share, or at least to remove some of TI's, the TI-83 is null here.  It's going to be there either way.
<grphmstur> this is true alberthro
<grphmstur> and it's a predominately unknown calc.
<alberthro> Schools is one thing. But without consumers, how does the PRIZM go anywhere?
<alberthro> Remember: STAPLES does NOT have the PRIZM.
<alberthro> Nor does Walmart.
<Fishbot> If the schools buy, then students buy.
<Fishbot> And yes, distribution is a problem.
<grphmstur> well, think of it this way.  At the beginning of the school year, your math teacher tells everyone to go out and buy a what....
<alberthro> True. But you should target both, perhaps at the same time.
<Fishbot> But stores stock what people ask for.
<alberthro> Without it being there in the first place, there's no way to get it.
<grphmstur> so our current problems are: 1) Production, 2) Costs, 3) Market, 4) monopoly.
<alberthro> So I guess the consensus is targeting both school and consumers (students/parents) alike.
<grphmstur> I include that 4th one as a pseudo topic as TI does kinda have a monopoly.
<Fishbot> I think consumers will focus on Price.
<grphmstur> and students will focus on what teachers tell them to get.
<Fishbot> There's not much *we* can do about consumer preferences.
<grphmstur> this is true.
<Fishbot> The Prizm wins in cost.
<alberthro> Advertising. That's the gray area here. ;)
<grphmstur> however, we can reduce TI's market share.
<grphmstur> alberthro: TI doesn't have to advertise.  I've never seen a TI calc commercial
<Fishbot> How do we target schools, though?
<alberthro> I would suggest around $100-110 for PRIZM.
<Fishbot> With school oriented software, of course.
<alberthro> grphmstur: well... they do that with some bribing of the teachers :P
<Fishbot> I think we need Casio's support on this.
<grphmstur> alberthro: not bribing at all.  Maybe a little with the union here and there.
<Fishbot> And their willingness to work with us.
<alberthro> If you really want to bring TI down, you'd also want to ask the book companies to start stripping TI screenshots off :P
<grphmstur> But not in many schools that still use it.
<JosJuice> Fishbot: Do you really think that's possible?
<alberthro> Because every book has a guide on using it. Even my agenda book does.
<Fishbot> I think we can get Casio's support.
<Fishbot> Possibly.
<grphmstur> Fishbot: possible, but unlikely.  However, if it's not "us" but cemetech, omnimaga, and ticalc....
<Fishbot> I wouldn't count TIcalc.
<JosJuice> ticalc is ticalc, not casiocalc :P
<grphmstur> this is true.
<grphmstur> we could ask nikky....
<alberthro> lol :P
<Fishbot> Suuuuurrrreee...
<JosJuice> What about casiocalc and casiokingdom? Might they be of any help?
<Fishbot> The people at Casio can't be complete morons.
<Fishbot> Not a chance.
<Fishbot> We're basically offering to sell their calc for them.
<grphmstur> why not Fishbot?
<grphmstur> I see.
<grphmstur> yeah, not good.
<Fishbot> Think Nspire Google Group and you have the idea of the casio forums.
<alberthro> lol :P
<JosJuice> Yeah
<grphmstur> so unless we reduce TI's market share, and get a suitable alternative, convince teachers to not use TI, we're screwed...
<alberthro> ironically, I'm writing/designing code for a TI-8x emulator as we speak :P
<grphmstur> this should be fun.
<JosJuice> SimonLothar posted useful stuff on Casio Kingdom, but he's on Omni now so w/e
<grphmstur> lol JosJuice
<Fishbot> Andreas and martin are the last productive Casio coders not on omni.
<JosJuice> Yeah
<JosJuice> I haven't seen them post on other forums either, though
<Fishbot> Martin's posted more on Omni than on Casiocalc :p
<Fishbot> Andreas hasn't posted much, but he and SimonLothar are probably in contact.
<grphmstur> okay, so so far, don't expect help from Casio, Teachers use TI, and we have no say.
<KermM_> Anyway, I need to get back to work on my homework
<grphmstur> awesome.
<grphmstur> cya KermM_
<Fishbot> Bye KermM_
<Souvik> cya KermM_
<Netham45> c-c-c-combo breaker
<KermM_> I hope you guys will copy out the gist of your thoughts in the Cemetech CX/Prizm topic :)
<Fishbot> graph, I think we need to get Casio behind us.
<Fishbot> Sure Kerm.
<JosJuice> I'm going to bed now. Be back tomorrow GMT
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<Fishbot> Night.