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  1. [17:06] harsha ok so lets get started??
  2. [17:07] harsha (btw ojama/vulpix/limitless/jirachee we're covering team building in this one if you're pitching in)
  3. [17:08] Ojama im still in, ill join asap
  4. [17:08] -->| swhannell1 (Mibbit@6AFFFA03.5EBA0422.1AD677DD.IP) has joined #battling101
  5. [17:08] harsha
  6. [17:08] vulpix just lemme grab some food
  7. [17:08] vulpix then i'll probs join in a bit
  8. [17:08] harsha cool
  9. [17:08] -->| mpea (Mibbit@synIRC-1B9F8F37.zone8.bethere.co.uk) has joined #battling101
  10. [17:09] -->| Governess (Mibbit@synIRC-AF851F46.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) has joined #battling101
  11. [17:09] harsha basically, you always want to have a goal in mind with regards to team building
  12. [17:09] dekzeh whats starting
  13. [17:09] dekzeh
  14. [17:09] harsha whether its clearing the way for a sweep or keeping everything in check and dealing damage through hazards and other passive damage
  15. [17:09] harsha b101 seminar
  16. [17:10] dekzeh oh i see why am i on this channel.. hnn
  17. [17:10] dekzeh is this only gonna cover bw?
  18. [17:10] Limitless no
  19. [17:10] Limitless structures for everything
  20. [17:10] dekzeh ill sit around and hope u guys are smart at what ure talking then
  21. [17:10] dekzeh .trl
  22. [17:10] Rwhite84 It's gen universal
  23. [17:11] Limitless The biggest things with building frameworks, or team building, is that it's just about getting as close the finished product as possible.
  24. [17:11] Limitless Team building should generally take no more than 10 minutes.
  25. [17:11] Limitless Editing is when you deal with the problems of the team, but that's for another seminar.
  26. [17:12] Limitless This is just getting your foot in the door and getting something down on paper.
  27. [17:12] harsha speaking of frameworks
  28. [17:12] harsha a framework is like the structure of the team
  29. [17:12] -->| Ace_Attorney (~Ace_Attor@synIRC-EFAEA8B7.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #battling101
  30. [17:13] harsha for instance if you're going with heavy / hyper offense a good formula would be:
  31. [17:13] harsha Lead / Breaker One / Breaker Two / Utility / Sweeper / Scarf
  32. [17:13] Limitless Yes, so in no matter what tier/gen that you are in, you should cut the tier into different roles.
  33. [17:14] Limitless Obviously, some pokemon can be in multiple roles
  34. [17:14] Limitless But when you team build, this would be a good referance to have, if you have to fill certain roles.
  35. [17:14] -->| hotsxyavailable (~Funkasaur@synIRC-D6F08E84.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #battling101
  36. [17:14] =-= hotsxyavailable is now known as Funkasaurus
  37. [17:14] |<-- Party_starter has left irc.synirc.net (Broken pipe)
  38. [17:14] Limitless So for example, I could cut BW OU breakers into things like:
  39. [17:14] =-= Mode #battling101 +h Funkasaurus by ChanServ
  40. [17:14] Limitless terrak, dragonite, eb keldeo
  41. [17:14] Limitless etc
  42. [17:14] Limitless can do it with ru
  43. [17:14] Limitless any tier
  44. [17:15] Limitless and i highly recommend it
  45. [17:15] Limitless This makes team building a lot less random.
  46. [17:15] harsha yeah that also helps with general metagame knowledge
  47. [17:15] Limitless Which is important if you want to build things around any type of strategy.
  48. [17:15] Isssues examples of sweepers
  49. [17:15] harsha and theres a point where you can tell exactly what sets the opponent is using from team preview (in bw)
  50. [17:15] Limitless Like you can build around a Weavile in OU for all i care.
  51. [17:15] Jirachee I think it's important to remember that breakers shouldn't just scare away what you want to break
  52. [17:16] Jirachee ex if you need to break through tyranitar you don't wanna use terra for that
  53. [17:16] Limitless Yes, very true.
  54. [17:16] Limitless Breakers should be things that are walled by the breaker
  55. [17:16] Limitless But with consecutive breakers, you can overwhelm the thing that's walling them.
  56. [17:16] Limitless This will then allow either the sweeper and/or scarf to sweep.
  57. [17:17] harsha isssues - sweepers could range from things like dd salamence to sd scizor, generally you'll see them with setup moves
  58. [17:17] harsha but
  59. [17:17] harsha a sweeper is typically what you're trying to clear the path for
  60. [17:18] Isssues Breakers should be things that are walled by the breaker rephrase this please
  61. [17:18] harsha well
  62. [17:18] Jirachee breakers should be thing that are "walled" by what you want to break
  63. [17:18] harsha think of it this way
  64. [17:19] harsha physical attackers are walled by skarm, no?
  65. [17:19] Isssues right
  66. [17:19] harsha well
  67. [17:19] harsha between an lo terrakion and a cb dragonite, you'll eventually overwhelm the skarm
  68. [17:20] harsha they're "breaking" the wall
  69. [17:20] Isssues alright gotcha.
  70. [17:20] Jirachee that will open the way for your scarf salamence
  71. [17:20] Jirachee to sweep
  72. [17:20] harsha ^^
  73. [17:20] LK but doesn't stacking up breakers walled to the same things stack up similar weaknesses
  74. [17:21] harsha it does, but your opponent won't have more than 1 or 2 of those weaknesses
  75. [17:21] Jirachee that's exactly what you want actually
  76. [17:21] Jirachee since
  77. [17:21] harsha in the end, you should be able to break those down, and you'll have a few more resources left to clean up in the late-game
  78. [17:21] Jirachee yeah.
  79. [17:22] Limitless And you can do this for every type of team.
  80. [17:23] Limitless Stall, pretty obvious. Balance I usually do weather/pivot/sweeper/utility/scarf/breaker
  81. [17:23] harsha yep
  82. [17:23] ColdBl00ded what's the best set to use for a utility pokemon to get the most use out of it?
  83. [17:23] Limitless In BW OU I usually use something like jirachi
  84. [17:23] harsha in the end, you should be able to break down most teams into a framework, which you can use to replicate the team and have similar results
  85. [17:24] Limitless But in essence, it should just be used to fill in the cracks of your team
  86. [17:24] Isssues Define your example of "utility"
  87. [17:24] harsha well
  88. [17:24] harsha jirachi provides stealth rock
  89. [17:24] Limitless Or if you have a really unique strategy, you can also use utility to do that
  90. [17:24] harsha paralysis support
  91. [17:24] harsha wish support
  92. [17:24] harsha etc
  93. [17:24] Limitless So if you want like sub baton pass
  94. [17:24] Limitless you can put it there
  95. [17:25] Limitless generally, i use it for defensive purposes though
  96. [17:25] -->| TGMDoom (Mibbit@synIRC-6FFFEDF6.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #battling101
  97. [17:25] Limitless or in sun
  98. [17:25] Limitless i could use forretress as utility
  99. [17:25] Limitless or wobb
  100. [17:25] Jirachee you can use it for extra hazards too
  101. [17:25] Jirachee spikes are nice
  102. [17:25] Limitless yep
  103. [17:26] harsha ColdBl00ded, it basically depends on the needs of your team
  104. [17:26] Limitless I really hate labeling it as such a broad thing
  105. [17:26] Limitless but
  106. [17:26] Isssues should offesive teams worry about a lot of utility or more on pressuring
  107. [17:26] Jirachee one thing I like to do is fill this slot as the last one
  108. [17:26] Limitless Yes
  109. [17:26] harsha celebi, jirachi, and similar pokemon are really good utility mons
  110. [17:26] Jirachee so I can look what my team lacks/is weak to
  111. [17:26] Limitless for offense, though
  112. [17:26] ColdBl00ded Thank you Harsha
  113. [17:26] Limitless you generally just want a pivot
  114. [17:26] -->| Nachos (i@have.inside.me.blood.of.kings) has joined #battling101
  115. [17:27] Limitless which is enough defense on offense
  116. [17:27] Limitless pivot allows you to gain the upperhand
  117. [17:27] Limitless without ur sweepers taking any damage
  118. [17:27] |<-- Governess has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  119. [17:27] Rwhite84 What exactly is a pivot? at risk of sounding like a noob
  120. [17:28] Limitless Usually something slow that can switch out
  121. [17:28] Limitless aka
  122. [17:28] Limitless celebi, scizor, jirachi
  123. [17:28] harsha a pivot is a pokemon that can take hits and give you momentum
  124. [17:28] Limitless i usually run -spe nature
  125. [17:28] harsha yeah
  126. [17:28] Limitless but not needed
  127. [17:28] Jirachee landorus-t is a great example too
  128. [17:28] Limitless so u can use moves like
  129. [17:28] Limitless uturn/bp/volt switch
  130. [17:28] Rwhite84 Kk thnx
  131. [17:28] harsha think voltturn
  132. [17:29] harsha by the way elaborating on the -spe nature thing
  133. [17:29] harsha this helps you gain the upper hand
  134. [17:30] harsha since you'll either hit the switch-in
  135. [17:30] Jirachee last u-turn means that you have the switch advantage
  136. [17:30] harsha yeah
  137. [17:30] Jirachee against other u-turners
  138. [17:30] Jirachee let's say it's rotom-w v rotom-w
  139. [17:30] Jirachee the opp's r-w's volt switches first
  140. [17:30] Jirachee then goes to latias
  141. [17:30] Jirachee allowing you to volt switch to your tyranitar safely
  142. [17:31] Jirachee which gives you
  143. [17:31] Jirachee a huge advantage
  144. [17:31] Limitless yep
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  146. [17:31] =-= Mode #battling101 +o Kevin_Garrett by ChanServ
  147. [17:31] LK also how do you work with a team like husk's astral projection, one where you have no defensive backbone and are open to a lot of offensive threats?
  148. [17:32] Isssues is a glarin type weakness deemed as unfit for team building
  149. [17:32] LK because i tried making teams like that but would get swept myself more often than not
  150. [17:32] Limitless That is a different type of team, one that probably wouldn't be able to be made right now.
  151. [17:32] Limitless For example
  152. [17:32] harsha isssues - more often than not, yes
  153. [17:32] Limitless The reason why it worked back then
  154. [17:32] |<-- Last_Chance has left irc.synirc.net (Ping timeout)
  155. [17:32] Limitless is because he had deoxys-s
  156. [17:32] Limitless He was able to use it as a fail-safe
  157. [17:33] Limitless Plus, there were a lot less offensive threats in dpp
  158. [17:33] Limitless It's much more difficult in BW to be without a pivot
  159. [17:33] -->| Governess (Mibbit@synIRC-AF851F46.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) has joined #battling101
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  161. [17:33] Limitless Theoritically, it is possible
  162. [17:33] Limitless But I've yet to witness a team that could take advantage of it
  163. [2013-04-13 17:34:19] <Limitless> Any other questions?
  164. [2013-04-13 17:34:25] <Limitless> That was a good question btw
  165. [2013-04-13 17:34:37] <LK> right, and how many members should you relegate to defend against weather teams, like i hear some players say you need 2 switchins to rain boosted attacks, and since on heavy offense you don't have much bulk
  166. [2013-04-13 17:34:48] <LK> how would that work
  167. [2013-04-13 17:34:48] <harsha> hmm
  168. [2013-04-13 17:34:52] <harsha> i think that applies more to
  169. [2013-04-13 17:34:55] <Limitless> In balance I usually just have 1
  170. [2013-04-13 17:35:03] <Limitless> But you should never build in that mind frame
  171. [2013-04-13 17:35:06] <harsha> balance, or teams that rely on their weather a lot (aka sun)
  172. [2013-04-13 17:35:12] <Limitless> Usually I have my pivot deal with rain attacks
  173. [2013-04-13 17:35:22] <Limitless> so like celebi
  174. [2013-04-13 17:35:27] <Limitless> or maybe my breaker
  175. [2013-04-13 17:35:29] <Limitless> like kyurem-b
  176. [2013-04-13 17:35:36] <harsha> yeah
  177. [2013-04-13 17:35:40] <Limitless> In offense, you should never have that in mind
  178. [2013-04-13 17:35:54] <Limitless> tho ur pivot could make use of it
  179. [2013-04-13 17:35:54] <harsha> offense is KILL OR BE KILLED
  180. [2013-04-13 17:36:12] =-= zebrafk is now known as zeb
  181. [2013-04-13 17:37:14] <swhannell1> I want to build a ghost type team to deal with OU, thoughts?
  182. [2013-04-13 17:37:21] <vulpix> don't
  183. [2013-04-13 17:37:27] <Jirachee> bad idea yeah
  184. [2013-04-13 17:37:36] |<-- Isssues has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  185. [2013-04-13 17:37:39] <Jirachee> mono type teams are usually very easy to beat
  186. [2013-04-13 17:37:44] <Jirachee> and they lose to a lot of things
  187. [2013-04-13 17:37:59] -->| TheSuperSayianBreloom (~cgiirc@synIRC-4831DEC3.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #battling101
  188. [2013-04-13 17:38:11] =-= dekzeh is now known as BisforBRB
  189. [2013-04-13 17:38:12] <harsha> aka scarf tyranitar, lol
  190. [2013-04-13 17:38:23] |<-- TGMDoom has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  191. [2013-04-13 17:38:40] <vulpix> just don't build monotype teams for use in competitive ou play now
  192. [2013-04-13 17:38:44] <vulpix> or ever really
  193. [2013-04-13 17:39:02] <vulpix> i mean you can get away with it but it's going to be inferior to a well thought out decent team p much always
  194. [2013-04-13 17:39:16] <vulpix> simply because you don't have to deal with stupid restrictions
  195. [2013-04-13 17:40:17] <swhannell1> thanks
  196. [2013-04-13 17:40:32] <mpea> I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it's been said to me a lot that Stall is difficult in the current metagame. Is this true?
  197. [2013-04-13 17:40:33] <--| Kevin_Garrett has left #battling101
  198. [2013-04-13 17:40:44] <Jirachee> yeah stall is difficult in bw2
  199. [2013-04-13 17:40:55] <Jirachee> since there are a lot of threats that are very difficult to wall
  200. [2013-04-13 17:41:01] <Jirachee> like swords dance fire blast garchomp
  201. [2013-04-13 17:41:06] <Jirachee> or swords dance terrakion
  202. [2013-04-13 17:41:09] <mpea> Would that mean that there's any point in building a heavy stall team?
  203. [2013-04-13 17:41:09] <Jirachee> you can deal with one
  204. [2013-04-13 17:41:13] <harsha> well
  205. [2013-04-13 17:41:14] <Jirachee> or more
  206. [2013-04-13 17:41:16] <harsha> mpea
  207. [2013-04-13 17:41:21] <Jirachee> but you can't really deal with all of them
  208. [2013-04-13 17:41:33] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> how do you know what mistakes you made in your battles/
  209. [2013-04-13 17:41:37] <harsha> you can build stall, but it's very difficult to make it cover the entire metagame
  210. [2013-04-13 17:41:37] <LK> also this is a little bit of a complicated question, but i read this in one of phil's articles on the smog that you should incorporate underrated threats into your team depending on the trend of the metagame, but how do you exactly judge this trend, like how would i know which underrated threat would be devastatiting at a certain point of the metagame
  211. [2013-04-13 17:41:42] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> *?*
  212. [2013-04-13 17:41:43] <LK> long question sorry lol
  213. [2013-04-13 17:41:50] <harsha> oh
  214. [2013-04-13 17:41:57] <harsha> an example of that would be
  215. [2013-04-13 17:42:01] <harsha> expert belt keldeo
  216. [2013-04-13 17:42:06] <harsha> lots of people run celebi nowadays
  217. [2013-04-13 17:42:09] <harsha> especially for walling keldeo
  218. [2013-04-13 17:42:18] <Jirachee> and landorus
  219. [2013-04-13 17:42:19] <Jirachee> !
  220. [2013-04-13 17:42:25] <vulpix> but stall can be very effective if played well
  221. [2013-04-13 17:42:29] -->| pumpkin (Mibbit@FDA42CDC.46F0EB3C.FE768F0B.IP) has joined #battling101
  222. [2013-04-13 17:42:30] <harsha> using an expert belt to feign a choice item, then luring in celebi and dealing damage with hidden power bug
  223. [2013-04-13 17:42:35] <harsha> is pretty effective
  224. [2013-04-13 17:42:53] <mpea> Well, most of my teams at the moment are Stall based or balanced
  225. [2013-04-13 17:43:46] <commander> what threats should most teams be prepared for
  226. [2013-04-13 17:44:08] <vulpix> terrakion rain dragonite keldeo
  227. [2013-04-13 17:44:12] <vulpix> right off the bat
  228. [2013-04-13 17:44:14] <vulpix> landorus
  229. [2013-04-13 17:44:15] <HotNCold> stall have a lot of issues but can be very antimeta
  230. [2013-04-13 17:44:15] -->| Kevin_Garrett (vhost@is.a.competitor) has joined #battling101
  231. [2013-04-13 17:44:15] =-= Mode #battling101 +o Kevin_Garrett by ChanServ
  232. [2013-04-13 17:44:21] <vulpix> chomper
  233. [2013-04-13 17:44:25] <Jirachee> latios
  234. [2013-04-13 17:44:27] <HotNCold> because cover a lot of "standard" threats
  235. [2013-04-13 17:44:56] -->| Issues (Mibbit@synIRC-1878BF25.mycingular.net) has joined #battling101
  236. [2013-04-13 17:44:59] <cherubagent> terrakion and volcarona
  237. [2013-04-13 17:45:00] <Rwhite84> Is there any value to throwing sunny day, hail, rain dance or sandstorm to a clear skies team to cripple weather?
  238. [2013-04-13 17:45:03] <harsha> theres also always the chance where
  239. [2013-04-13 17:45:15] <harsha> you'll be mauled by an obscure threat
  240. [2013-04-13 17:45:26] <harsha> and Rwhite84, weatherless teams can take advantage of that
  241. [2013-04-13 17:45:36] <Jirachee> a good example of that rwhite84
  242. [2013-04-13 17:45:41] <Jirachee> is rain dance kingdra
  243. [2013-04-13 17:45:41] <harsha> throwing hail on a weatherless team to get rid of sun
  244. [2013-04-13 17:45:45] <harsha> is pretty effective
  245. [2013-04-13 17:45:56] <Issues> how close to perfect should you be to covering every threat
  246. [2013-04-13 17:46:01] <Rwhite84> Kk thnx
  247. [2013-04-13 17:46:06] <mpea> Surely Rain is more commonly used, and might be the more immediate threat?
  248. [2013-04-13 17:46:54] <mpea> Or must we cover counters to every weather? Because that's quite difficult.
  249. [2013-04-13 17:47:24] <harsha> theres no need
  250. [2013-04-13 17:47:42] <harsha> you should be playing your own game, not trying to counter someone else's
  251. [2013-04-13 17:47:56] <harsha> of course, stall is kinda different
  252. [2013-04-13 17:48:01] <harsha> but the point still stands
  253. [2013-04-13 17:48:29] <harsha> you want to get your hazards down aggressively and quickly, then control the tide of the battle by forcing switches and passive damage
  254. [2013-04-13 17:48:42] <mpea> I see.
  255. [2013-04-13 17:49:00] <LK> on the topic of hazards for an offensive team, is it absolutely necessary to have a spin blocker?
  256. [2013-04-13 17:49:02] <LK> i mean
  257. [2013-04-13 17:49:12] <Jirachee> not for offensive teams
  258. [2013-04-13 17:49:24] <Jirachee> if you can maintain pressure on spinners
  259. [2013-04-13 17:49:31] <Jirachee> you'll be fine against them
  260. [2013-04-13 17:49:41] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> on offensive teams does synergy matter?
  261. [2013-04-13 17:49:47] <vulpix> yes
  262. [2013-04-13 17:49:49] <vulpix> always
  263. [2013-04-13 17:49:53] <Jirachee> but obviously if your team gives a ton of free turns to starmie you might have issues
  264. [2013-04-13 17:50:11] <harsha> yes, maintain offensive pressure and don't give opponents a chance to spin
  265. [2013-04-13 17:50:16] <vulpix> although it really depends on how you define the term "synergy"
  266. [2013-04-13 17:50:17] <harsha> or at least make the opponent pay for spinning
  267. [2013-04-13 17:50:34] <--| Limitless has left #battling101
  268. [2013-04-13 17:50:42] -->| Limitless (Limitless@synIRC-741D7725.wireless.umnet.umich.edu) has joined #battling101
  269. [2013-04-13 17:50:43] =-= Mode #battling101 +ao Limitless Limitless by ChanServ
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  271. [2013-04-13 17:50:46] <Jirachee> if you mean defensive synergy then offensive teams don't really care about it
  272. [2013-04-13 17:50:51] <Limitless> On the topic of spin blocking
  273. [2013-04-13 17:50:57] <Jirachee> but they should have good offensive synergy
  274. [2013-04-13 17:51:01] <Limitless> You don't really need a ghost for that purpose in an offensive team.
  275. [2013-04-13 17:51:08] <Limitless> I often times have leads that do the spin blocking for me
  276. [2013-04-13 17:51:12] <Limitless> So whether it be
  277. [2013-04-13 17:51:21] <Limitless> Explosion Azelf or Explosion Smeargle
  278. [2013-04-13 17:51:21] <harsha> explosion n_n
  279. [2013-04-13 17:51:24] <Limitless> they can't spin
  280. [2013-04-13 17:51:40] <Limitless> Plus, it allows me to keep the momentum
  281. [2013-04-13 17:51:50] <Jirachee> yeah that's always nice
  282. [2013-04-13 17:51:51] |<-- Issues has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  283. [2013-04-13 17:52:01] <Limitless> if you have like a skarmory custap lead tho
  284. [2013-04-13 17:52:04] <Limitless> you probably should
  285. [2013-04-13 17:52:06] <Limitless> have a ghost
  286. [2013-04-13 17:53:11] |<-- Governess has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  287. [2013-04-13 17:53:13] <Limitless> And with offensive synergy, it usually just means being walled by the same things
  288. [2013-04-13 17:53:28] <Limitless> Which allows you to break through
  289. [2013-04-13 17:53:30] <Limitless> and Sweep
  290. [2013-04-13 17:53:45] <harsha> yep
  291. [2013-04-13 17:53:52] <mpea> This feels like a bit of a paradox, but how do you counter the wallbreaker?
  292. [2013-04-13 17:54:18] <Limitless> I'm not sure I understand the question
  293. [2013-04-13 17:54:30] <harsha> i think he's trying to say
  294. [2013-04-13 17:54:47] <harsha> how would you (the skarm user) deal with the opponent (the lo terrakion and cb nite user)
  295. [2013-04-13 17:55:13] <Limitless> By having 2 counters the offensive user's end game
  296. [2013-04-13 17:55:16] <Limitless> (in defensive teams)
  297. [2013-04-13 17:55:28] <Limitless> 2 counters would make it difficult
  298. [2013-04-13 17:55:37] <mpea> I see.
  299. [2013-04-13 17:55:37] -->| sluggo (Mibbit@synIRC-DE1CDBA1.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #battling101
  300. [2013-04-13 17:55:51] <Jirachee> then again that's what makes defensive teams less effective in bw2
  301. [2013-04-13 17:55:51] <Limitless> 3 is almost impossible
  302. [2013-04-13 17:55:53] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> By being walled by the same things do you mean like your whole team is walled by the same thing?
  303. [2013-04-13 17:56:02] <Jirachee> since there's so much more threats
  304. [2013-04-13 17:56:03] <vulpix> or, in some cases, for the skarm user to play more aggressively themself
  305. [2013-04-13 17:56:12] <Limitless> Besides the pivot, yes
  306. [2013-04-13 17:56:16] <vulpix> and to force the loterra + cbnite player into positions
  307. [2013-04-13 17:56:18] <vulpix> where they lose momentum
  308. [2013-04-13 17:56:20] <Limitless> but you have to make sure you can break through the counters
  309. [2013-04-13 17:56:21] <vulpix> and give skarm free turns to roost
  310. [2013-04-13 17:56:39] <Limitless> so if ur whole team is walled by skarm
  311. [2013-04-13 17:56:43] <Limitless> you better be sure you can overwhelm it
  312. [2013-04-13 17:56:51] <Limitless> like having cb dragonite, cb garchomp etc
  313. [2013-04-13 17:56:54] <Limitless> ur never gonna do anything to it
  314. [2013-04-13 17:57:52] |<-- sluggo has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  315. [2013-04-13 17:59:05] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> how does it make it easier to break through and sweep if you're walled by the same things?
  316. [2013-04-13 17:59:21] <harsha> well, if you're walled by the same thing
  317. [2013-04-13 17:59:23] <harsha> the idea is
  318. [2013-04-13 17:59:28] <harsha> you'll overwhelm that wall
  319. [2013-04-13 17:59:32] <harsha> eventually
  320. [2013-04-13 17:59:37] <harsha> by pounding at it with your breakers
  321. [2013-04-13 17:59:44] <vulpix> look at it this way
  322. [2013-04-13 17:59:44] <Jirachee> I think a good example for a wallbreaker for a team that's walled by skarm
  323. [2013-04-13 17:59:47] <vulpix> you send in terrak
  324. [2013-04-13 17:59:51] <vulpix> SD up as they switch in skarm
  325. [2013-04-13 17:59:56] <Jirachee> is sd terra
  326. [2013-04-13 17:59:57] <Jirachee> ya
  327. [2013-04-13 18:00:02] <harsha> !!
  328. [2013-04-13 18:00:04] <vulpix> cc it for ~65% or so as it whirlwinds
  329. [2013-04-13 18:00:09] <vulpix> or it brave birds
  330. [2013-04-13 18:00:10] <vulpix> or something
  331. [2013-04-13 18:00:22] <harsha> yep
  332. [2013-04-13 18:00:22] <vulpix> then you force it out with another mon and it's at ~40%
  333. [2013-04-13 18:00:31] <vulpix> next time it comes in to counter one of your breakers
  334. [2013-04-13 18:00:33] |<-- HSA has left irc.synirc.net (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  335. [2013-04-13 18:00:34] <vulpix> it can't beat it
  336. [2013-04-13 18:00:40] <vulpix> because it's at 28% after rocks
  337. [2013-04-13 18:00:46] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> i see
  338. [2013-04-13 18:00:51] <vulpix> so it dies to the cbnite outrage/terra c
  339. [2013-04-13 18:00:52] <vulpix> c
  340. [2013-04-13 18:00:57] <Limitless> this is also important for things like scarf mence
  341. [2013-04-13 18:00:57] <Limitless> were
  342. [2013-04-13 18:00:59] <Limitless> where
  343. [2013-04-13 18:01:06] <Limitless> outrage will do like 23% to skarm
  344. [2013-04-13 18:01:11] <Limitless> so if u can get it that low
  345. [2013-04-13 18:01:15] <Limitless> ur in the clearing to likely sweep
  346. [2013-04-13 18:01:32] <Tsunami> yeah
  347. [2013-04-13 18:01:52] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> should keldeo be used for wall breaking outside of rain?
  348. [2013-04-13 18:01:56] <Limitless> in regards to breakers, and terrak, i also like to run adamant
  349. [2013-04-13 18:02:05] <Limitless> just cause i'm not trying to sweep
  350. [2013-04-13 18:02:09] <Limitless> just deal as much damage to the wall
  351. [2013-04-13 18:02:10] <Jirachee> keldeo is good even outside of rain
  352. [2013-04-13 18:02:19] <Jirachee> let's say you want to wallbreak for rp lando
  353. [2013-04-13 18:02:22] <Limitless> keldeo is a great wall breaker, prob better than scarf
  354. [2013-04-13 18:02:32] <Jirachee> you can use ebelt keldeo
  355. [2013-04-13 18:02:34] <vulpix> keldeo is just
  356. [2013-04-13 18:02:35] <Jirachee> to break for it
  357. [2013-04-13 18:02:40] <vulpix> flat out the 3rd best mon
  358. [2013-04-13 18:02:41] <vulpix> in OU right now
  359. [2013-04-13 18:02:45] <Jirachee> since they share the same counters
  360. [2013-04-13 18:03:16] <Limitless> so but let's build off of that
  361. [2013-04-13 18:03:20] <Limitless> let's say u have rp landlos
  362. [2013-04-13 18:03:26] <Limitless> or nah
  363. [2013-04-13 18:03:27] <Limitless> let's say
  364. [2013-04-13 18:03:27] <Limitless> u have
  365. [2013-04-13 18:03:36] <Limitless> np/agility/thunderbolt/hp ice thundurus
  366. [2013-04-13 18:03:41] <Limitless> not in rain
  367. [2013-04-13 18:03:45] <Limitless> let's say
  368. [2013-04-13 18:03:46] <Limitless> uh
  369. [2013-04-13 18:03:49] <Jirachee> dub dance thund :)
  370. [2013-04-13 18:03:50] <Limitless> offense for giggles
  371. [2013-04-13 18:03:56] <Limitless> not that i'd do this
  372. [2013-04-13 18:03:59] <Limitless> but let's just build
  373. [2013-04-13 18:04:04] <Limitless> so thund is sweeper
  374. [2013-04-13 18:04:12] <Limitless> what walls thund?
  375. [2013-04-13 18:04:15] <Limitless> (people not tutors)
  376. [2013-04-13 18:04:17] <Jirachee> tias
  377. [2013-04-13 18:04:19] <harsha> lol
  378. [2013-04-13 18:04:20] <Jirachee> nvm :|
  379. [2013-04-13 18:04:22] <Limitless> .
  380. [2013-04-13 18:04:25] <vulpix> .
  381. [2013-04-13 18:04:29] =-= vulpix is now known as windsong
  382. [2013-04-13 18:04:32] <Tsunami> nice job jirachi
  383. [2013-04-13 18:04:32] <Tsunami> smh
  384. [2013-04-13 18:04:49] <Tsunami> i expected harsha to do that
  385. [2013-04-13 18:04:53] <Limitless> ok people are shy
  386. [2013-04-13 18:04:54] <Limitless> well
  387. [2013-04-13 18:04:55] <harsha> 9.9
  388. [2013-04-13 18:04:55] <Andrew> blissey
  389. [2013-04-13 18:04:57] <Limitless> celebi
  390. [2013-04-13 18:04:59] <Limitless> blissey
  391. [2013-04-13 18:04:59] <Limitless> ye
  392. [2013-04-13 18:05:04] <Tsunami> ferrothorn
  393. [2013-04-13 18:05:04] <Jirachee> tias
  394. [2013-04-13 18:05:05] <Jirachee> !
  395. [2013-04-13 18:05:05] <Tsunami> lol
  396. [2013-04-13 18:05:14] <Limitless> ok so
  397. [2013-04-13 18:05:16] <Andrew> QUAGSIRE
  398. [2013-04-13 18:05:21] <BisforBRB> quag
  399. [2013-04-13 18:05:22] <BisforBRB> :o
  400. [2013-04-13 18:05:24] <windsong> quaggy <3
  401. [2013-04-13 18:05:25] =-= BisforBRB is now known as dekzeh
  402. [2013-04-13 18:05:30] <Limitless> ur 2 breakers should be able to be able to break through those
  403. [2013-04-13 18:05:32] <Limitless> but also attract them
  404. [2013-04-13 18:05:45] -->| issues (Mibbit@synIRC-F917ECF9.mycingular.net) has joined #battling101
  405. [2013-04-13 18:05:46] <Limitless> another thing about breakers, they can also lure
  406. [2013-04-13 18:05:58] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> i don't get luring
  407. [2013-04-13 18:06:06] <Jirachee> well
  408. [2013-04-13 18:06:09] <Limitless> if you have garchomp
  409. [2013-04-13 18:06:12] <issues> ok explain the l
  410. [2013-04-13 18:06:12] <Limitless> they bring in skarm
  411. [2013-04-13 18:06:13] <Limitless> u fire blast
  412. [2013-04-13 18:06:17] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> oh
  413. [2013-04-13 18:06:19] <Limitless> boom
  414. [2013-04-13 18:06:29] <Limitless> u could eq
  415. [2013-04-13 18:06:30] <issues> luring concept
  416. [2013-04-13 18:06:32] <Limitless> when they switch in
  417. [2013-04-13 18:06:34] <Limitless> skarm
  418. [2013-04-13 18:06:37] <Limitless> then fb
  419. [2013-04-13 18:06:40] <Limitless> same thing
  420. [2013-04-13 18:06:43] <Tsunami> ya
  421. [2013-04-13 18:06:46] <windsong> except fire blast chomper is kinda eh :(
  422. [2013-04-13 18:06:52] <Jirachee> wat >:(
  423. [2013-04-13 18:06:53] <Limitless> i love fb chomp .-.
  424. [2013-04-13 18:06:58] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> what starmie sets should you not use in offensive teams for spinning purpose?
  425. [2013-04-13 18:07:01] <windsong> i don't like it
  426. [2013-04-13 18:07:10] <Tsunami> luring is basically when your opponent goes like, "yeah im gonna wall this pokemon like hell" and then you ohko their switch in with a surprise move
  427. [2013-04-13 18:07:13] <Andrew> another example of a lure:
  428. [2013-04-13 18:07:18] <Andrew> rock gem terrakion
  429. [2013-04-13 18:07:29] <Tsunami> [17:07:11] <TheSuperSayianBreloom> what starmie sets should you not use in offensive teams for spinning purpose?
  430. [2013-04-13 18:07:30] <Andrew> spam CC, fake like it's scarf
  431. [2013-04-13 18:07:31] <Tsunami> like what do u mean
  432. [2013-04-13 18:07:32] <Tsunami> set
  433. [2013-04-13 18:07:44] <Andrew> then nail the fight-resist (usually not something that likes taking stone edges well)
  434. [2013-04-13 18:07:48] <Andrew> with stone edge
  435. [2013-04-13 18:07:54] <Limitless> you can use any set u want
  436. [2013-04-13 18:07:54] <Tsunami> there's basically only like 1 set
  437. [2013-04-13 18:07:58] <Limitless> just depends on ur team
  438. [2013-04-13 18:08:01] <Tsunami> w/ a lot of variations
  439. [2013-04-13 18:08:08] <Tsunami> ya u can use w/e
  440. [2013-04-13 18:08:08] <Jirachee> you shouldn't use
  441. [2013-04-13 18:08:11] <Jirachee> bulky starmie
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