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wolfshiem

The Communion and Intercession of Saints

May 5th, 2015
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  1. Communion of Saints is the teaching that those who die and are given salvation are given life in the Body of Christ. They exist together in the Body of Christ through the shared life of Christ.
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  3. The Intercession of Saints is the teaching that those alive can still pray for us. You can ask them to pray for you.
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  5. Common criticisms:
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  7. >Why even think they'd do it?
  8. Paul asserts that intercessions are to be given to all people by the Body of the Church. Simply because you're alive in Heaven does not mean you stop being part of the Body of the Church.
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  10. >You're praying to them!
  11. This is true but the issue here is semantic. Catholics define prayer as communication, not innately worship. What you do in prayer can make it worship. Prayer for saints is simply asking them to pray for you or simply honoring a good person.
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  13. >You're worshiping them
  14. There is no worship involved. It's asking people to pray for you and honoring the good people that have lived.
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  16. >We're not to bow
  17. This assume that even the Japanese bow used for greetings and goodbyes are sinful, despite their different cultural context. You're saying purely the pure act of bowing to others is sinful and not the intent behind it, which ignores that sin begins in the heart and people will have different things in their heart depending on the intent of the bowing thus the act is not the sin but the intent behind it. The intent behind the teaching of bowing here would be worship. There is no worship of saints, however, simply asking for prayers and honoring them.
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  19. >They can't hear you
  20. There is also a mention of saints gathering prayers in the Book of Revelation and the reference to our actions still maintaining a "cloud of witnesses", saying that those who perish still watch over us. And Jesus mentions joy in Heaven over a sinner repenting in the Book of Luke. They couldn't be joyous if they were unable to know of whats going on there.
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  22. >God said to pray to him
  23. Yes, when we need. Asking others to pray for you isn't a need.
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  25. >You could pray to God instead
  26. That's fine. Just know there are options.
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  28. >It's necromancy
  29. Jesus conversed with Moses and Elijah who died so the necromancy mentioned couldn't deal with this sort of thing, else Jesus would have sinned. If you look into the idea of necromancy at the time you see that it is the summoning of spirits and asking them for answers. This is not intercession.
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  31. >Jesus is mediator
  32. Yes. Saints aren't mediators, they're intercessors.
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  34. >How do you know they're in Heaven?
  35. As individuals, we have no idea. However, the Catholic Church has the authority to make these statements as they have the teaching authority whose authority stems from the passed on authority set up by the early church and has it's origins in the authority Jesus gave to the apostles to teach the faith that those apostles passed down to their successors. There is a difficult and formal process for this discerning which is called canonization.
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  37. >How do you know their patronage?
  38. When discerning whether they are in Heaven or not, the church will look into what they personally dealt with and overcame in their life. Their patronage comes from that. You ask them to pray for you if what they pray deals with their patronage their personal experience will allow them to do a more experienced or better prayer.
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