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  1. https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame?language=en
  2. I am looking to analyze the red pill. Not from high & mighty lets see is this shit is real POV. We already know a lot of it is bunk. I mean to analyze the larger cultural context which could drive some men to it. This will analysis at least for my part in this post will be done from an androcentric non feminist perspective. Why? [que vigorous down voting] Because A) The issues is largely androcentric, this doesn't mean that women do not play a role, they do but the issues of the red pill is largely androcentric nature as such requires an androcentric perspective to address it. In some cases it is a sign of pathology in others its a reaction to cultural norms some of which are staunchly reinforced by the culture and in some cases yes women are largely behind some aspects of it. B) It is written from a non-feminist perspective because the author is of the very strong opinion that feminism has nothing to offer men in regards to gender issues.
  3. Ok now that ideological biases & positions have been stated lets get stuck in to it shall we?
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  5. Ok so the relevant bit that we need to concern ourselves with is at about the 16 minute mark in the above linked video on shame and by proxy vulnerability. The whole video is good but the from the 16 minute mark onward for about 2 minute really is the incisive look into men, masculinity, and frame.
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  7. Simply put the old gender role of men being are heavily enforced by the wider culture but more relevantly to most men... women. Contrary to a lot thought on this forum and others that tend to be feminist leaning; men do talk with other men about their problems. Granted it’s rarely in an effusive way and tends to goals driven. But they still talk about it with other men. But men are still held to the old cultural standards of being stoic to the extreme. Now granted there is a role for stoicism with in moderation. No wants to deal with anyone that has an emotional hair trigger. But the degree of stoicism expected of men largely of women (in the context of dating and relationships) is deeply problematic for men in the long run. Notice that the male suicide rate deviates from the female suicide rate with the onset puberty. This is largely the way larger society deals with boys Vs young men with the onset of puberty. The larger society goes from caring to expecting young men emotionally self sufficient in greater way than they previously experienced in their youth compared to their female counterpart. Prior to adolescents boys experienced being disposable as being able to wander farther from their parents without the parents flipping shit, less care when they get the typical bumps and bruises the come with growing up, and as infants are left to cry unattended 3 minutes longer than girls. When they hit puberty they are left to their own emotional devices by society and isn't it curious that thats when the suicide rate greatly deviants from their female peers. This is also when boys become much greater risk takers compared to girls which is typically associated with male symptoms of depression... or a form of nihilism from the sudden lack of emotional care.
  8. Understanding this, the question is why? While there are surely multiple factors to look at/ I am stipulating that a large part of the stocism largely attributed to the male role is do to a lack or perceived lack of ability to show vulnerability around women and still be considered a viable romantic interest. This is where frame comes into play and a lot of other regressive red pill beliefs.
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  10. The real bastard of frame and keeping frame is that most guys either know a guy or have experience being dumped shortly after being vulnerable often after being requested to to be vulnerable to a female partner. I am of the strong opinion this is a large driver of RPs need to be the AMOG and a lot of red pill notions that women can not love (beta) men. Is this All women? No but it is a significant enough subset of the population to make men weary of 'opening up' and 'being vulnerable' to all women regards of whether or not their vulnerability will be accepted. This is an aspect of culture as a result of some women toxic expectation of men. (Again NAWALT of course but it is real enough fear for most men to be very weary about opening up to women).
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  12. I'm not sure what the solutions are, but I think this is a clear driver of men toward red pill or red pill thinking. The society savages men who dare to step from their gender role. Most men can shrug off what other men say as 'shit talking' but when most men get scorn from women it does cut deeper.
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  14. Axioms of this essay: 1. Historically Men are disposable 2. Historically women were in as gilded a cage as the men in their lives could provide. The failure to do such was seen historically as failure on the man. 3. Men took on the harder more dangerous jobs as result of their male disposibility, the result of being seen as disposable runs counter to being vulnerable. 4. Women by virtue of being is less disposable position were allowed to be more vulnerable than men. 5. Men faced a cultural expectations of protecting and caring for women even women they were not related to the inverse claim was not expected of women. 6. Women are largely the ones who guide culture via strict out grouping of individuals who do not conform to social norms. 7. These outdated social norms are detrimental to society in which infant mortality is negligible and the environment has been made much safer for everyone.
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  16. Propositions of this Essay Premise 1 The stoicism / 'frame' that a man is expected to live up to from the greater society largely come from women to men. Premise 2 As society has progressed women were liberated from their role men were not, in many way men were forced deeper into their traditional roles. Premise 3 As a result of ever tightening masculine roles we are seeing various highly toxic subculture develop in the form of RP and MGTOW. In essence it was like bending a stick more and more until it breaks. Premise 4 Rather than develop new tools to encourage pro-social behavior in men society is continuing to hold them to the old standard in stricter and stricter ways. In essence society social beat men with the stick to live up to various standards and no the stick is broken and the men are to. The carrot is rotten by the way.
  17. Therefore without massive social remodeling subcultures like the red pill and mgtow will continue to grow and begin to bleed into the wider culture. 0This is not a desirable outcome for society.
  18. There are three possible outcomes from where we are now:
  19. The obvious way Red pill becomes mainstream [shudders].
  20. The second most obvious Men end living up to traditional masculine standards and force a market shift such that 'real men' are no more. When i refer to real men I refer to a particular trope found in social media propagated by some women that a real man does [insert some form of traditional masculinity often a form of traditional masculinity which is benevolently sexist and thus covertly misogynistic].
  21. Third option is women take the charge against women expecting traditional masculinity out of men. This ranges from chivalry to white knighting, and calling out women who shame men for being vulnerable. In essence become the protectors of men and very non-gender typical role for this society.
  22. For your consideration.
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