[23:39:00] #trinitrotoluene: ok
[23:39:19] |raw|<div class="broadcast-red"><b>Moderated chat was set to +!</b><br />Only users of rank + and higher can talk.</div>
[23:39:23] nedor was promoted to Room Voice by trinitrotoluene.
[23:39:31] #trinitrotoluene: roll call time.
[23:39:36] #trinitrotoluene: tdk
[23:39:53] #trinitrotoluene: TDK
[23:40:04] #trinitrotoluene: yoo
[23:40:07] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[23:40:08] +TDK: hi
[23:40:13] +TDK: sorry was grabbing food
[23:40:13] #trinitrotoluene: good.
[23:40:19] #trinitrotoluene: nedor
[23:40:23] +nedor: yep
[23:40:30] #trinitrotoluene: Albacore
[23:40:33] @Albacore: hi
[23:40:46] #trinitrotoluene: Snowydoe
[23:40:52] @Snowydoe: Yo
[23:41:00] #trinitrotoluene: ok, most of us are here now.
[23:41:21] #trinitrotoluene: rob. and ib aren't here, but that's ok.
[23:41:31] #trinitrotoluene: 5/7 isn't a bad turnout.
[23:41:32] @Eyan: IB went to sleep
[23:42:07] +TDK: yea
[23:42:07] #trinitrotoluene: /announce anyways, welcome to the first collaborative workshop between ct and rmt! our tier of focus for this session is ou!
[23:42:34] #trinitrotoluene: what core are we working on first?
[23:42:51] +TDK: fine with any, myself. probably best to just start off with yours, though
[23:42:58] #trinitrotoluene: mmkay.
[23:43:02] +nedor: we had a few that TDK and you mentioned, i'd be fine with most of them
[23:43:14] #trinitrotoluene: core:
[23:43:16] #trinitrotoluene: http://hastebin.com/raw/mazeganohe
[23:43:47] #trinitrotoluene: rp m-diancie and specs mag is a fun core, but a bit slow.
[23:44:12] @Snowydoe: Mhm, speed control is going be a mudt
[23:44:12] +TDK: yea, it really relies on diancie to get a chance to set up to handle offense, but it'll need support
[23:44:21] +TDK: while also providing good checks to waters and grounds
[23:45:15] @Snowydoe: Where do we want to take this? Cause i can see it going a more bo route rn
[23:45:28] #trinitrotoluene: bulky offense probably is the best way to go w/ this.
[23:45:41] +TDK: definitely an offensive route, bulky offense or just offense, either or
[23:45:48] +nedor: a more BO route would be appreciated due to the fact that it requires somewhat of a defensive backbone because the defensive synergy isnt great
[23:46:01] @Snowydoe: Im thinkin the same
[23:46:06] #trinitrotoluene: latios and breloom look like great teammates.
[23:46:52] +nedor: latios would provide role compression in hazard removal as well as basic resists that are needed
[23:47:10] #Ce1ticpride: random question, is anybody taking logs right now?
[23:47:12] +TDK: latios definitely looks good for multiple reasons
[23:47:30] @Albacore: yeah keldeo counter is important
[23:47:43] +TDK: anyone can get logs, but either way one of our global mods will be able to get them, Ce1ticpride
[23:47:51] #trinitrotoluene: Ce1ticpride, any one of eyan, albacore, or i can pull logs at the end.
[23:47:51] +nedor: since the core is also fairly slow, loom is appreciated because of the free turns through spore, and provides a solid check to sand offense which is prominent rn
[23:48:15] #Ce1ticpride: :O forgive the ignorance
[23:48:53] +TDK: latios is really nice as it provides a very solid water resist while also either being able to provide defog support, should we opt for that, or being able to heavily pressure fatter builds and greatly appreciating mag's support
[23:49:07] +nedor: checking standard offense breakers like m-lop or m-meta is also needed for the build
[23:49:10] +TDK: erh, the later part of the sentence would be for the CM set
[23:49:17] @Albacore: we probably need hp fire on that latios
[23:49:35] @Snowydoe: I actually like serp > loom at lot more
[23:49:39] #trinitrotoluene: !!!
[23:49:52] #trinitrotoluene: serp's cool.
[23:50:02] @Snowydoe: That way we have a back up answer bd azu and manaphy
[23:50:20] +nedor: even tho hp fire is an option on latios, it should be a consistent check to stuff like keldeo and manaphy, so recovery would definitely be appreciated
[23:50:25] @Snowydoe: Also just great for breaking bulky waters and stall
[23:50:31] +nedor: it would function as a cool secondary lure though
[23:50:38] @Albacore: as this point we defenitely need something for jirachi+metagross particularly BP metagross, as well as offensive scizor
[23:50:52] #trinitrotoluene: so, what's the team so far?
[23:51:05] +TDK: i think we all agreed on latios' addition?
[23:51:07] +nedor: mdiancie + zone + most likely latios
[23:51:07] @Snowydoe: Zone/diancie/lati/ serp?
[23:51:16] #trinitrotoluene: serp is an option for slot 4.
[23:51:30] #trinitrotoluene: let's look at other options too.
[23:51:42] @Albacore: loom's advanatge over serp is that it gives us a sand check
[23:51:52] +nedor: role compression in the rocker slot would be appreciated, checking standard offense breakers as i mentioned before is important because of how low the core is
[23:52:09] +nedor: sand is extremely popular right now as well
[23:52:09] +TDK: my problem with serp is it will only further constrict our last two slots, as we will need a lot of things in those two slots
[23:52:33] +nedor: yeah it would restrict the build, loom also provides a bisharp check which is appreciated
[23:52:44] @Snowydoe: Well i think it needs to be a relatively fast answer to bulky waters
[23:52:44] #trinitrotoluene: thoughts on lansat loomer?
[23:52:48] +nedor: priority in general on a slow core like this is appreciated
[23:53:15] @Snowydoe: Yeah we need apeed control p badly rn
[23:53:27] +TDK: excadrill, gardevoir, metagross, bisharp, altaria, serperior, and weavile are some big threats i could find thus far
[23:53:36] @Snowydoe: Otherwise offensive builds with sand or lop will eat us
[23:53:47] +TDK: serp doesn't really check any of those, so don't really think it's the best option
[23:53:48] +nedor: lansat loom would be pretty cool to lure mvenu / amoong for a late game mdiancie sweep
[23:53:57] @Albacore: well klefki provides speed control+checks a few of these threats
[23:54:03] +nedor: speed control in general like priority, scarfer, twave would be appreciated
[23:54:13] +TDK: yea, klefki is a fine option
[23:54:18] #trinitrotoluene: klefki also gives out spikes, which helps wear walls down even further.
[23:54:23] @Albacore: however we are stil super weak to some steels
[23:54:30] @Albacore: so we need a really good answer to them
[23:54:51] @Albacore: metagross is particular looks very scary
[23:55:04] @Snowydoe: Mhm, well i like fire blast chomp
[23:55:04] +nedor: yeah spikes pressures mons like mvenu so they can no longer check mdiancie, and klefki provides a solid fairy check so zone wouldnt be overwhelmed
[23:55:09] @Albacore: zor too sincei t cna outspeed and superpower zone
[23:55:16] @Albacore: *it can
[23:55:53] @Albacore: chomp seems like a good option but idk if its enough
[23:55:54] @Snowydoe: Fb chomp handles scizor+sharp+gross etc and can provide hazards in lure in ferro to make diances late game sweep easy
[23:56:00] +nedor: a defensive backbone / hazard stacking core of fatchomp + klefki would check threats to the team rn, provide hazards, speed control as well.
[23:56:11] #trinitrotoluene: chomper is cool.
[23:56:30] #trinitrotoluene: it gives the team a reliable check to most of the threats tdk outlined.
[23:56:42] #trinitrotoluene: still, i'm not liking the team's prospects against sand offense.
[23:56:47] +nedor: we would also have interesting options with klefki like heal block to annoy fatter builds slightly more
[23:56:48] +TDK: chomper fits practically any offensive team
[23:57:13] @Snowydoe: Chomp is great n_n
[23:57:15] @Albacore: i like how we said we were building BO and we basically ended up with HO
[23:57:29] #trinitrotoluene: lol
[23:57:35] +TDK: it's a slow AF ho
[23:57:36] +nedor: general resists were honesn
[23:57:44] +nedor: oops
[23:57:55] +nedor: general resists were honestly enough on a slow build like this
[23:58:10] +TDK: so, klefki + garchomp seem good to everyone?
[23:58:16] #trinitrotoluene: yere.
[23:58:19] +nedor: should be fine, ye
[23:58:20] @Snowydoe: Yea
[23:58:23] #trinitrotoluene: let's talk slot #6 now.
[23:58:34] +TDK: ok, last slot has to be a thundurus check and can't be slow
[23:58:40] @Albacore: sand check too
[23:58:45] @Snowydoe: What have we got rn btw?
[23:58:48] @Albacore: diancie / magnezone / latios / klefki / garchomp
[23:58:58] @Snowydoe: Aight cool
[23:59:00] @Albacore: probably a manaphy check too
[23:59:05] +TDK: hm yea
[23:59:12] @Albacore: i mean we can run raikou but it loses to sand
[23:59:13] @Snowydoe: Raikou?
[23:59:15] #trinitrotoluene: ~~inb4 lum serp~~
[23:59:27] @Snowydoe: Or serp works lol
[23:59:43] @Albacore: serp doesnt check electrics all that well
[00:00:00] +nedor: i suppose we can run something along the lines of sash loom to check driller and thund, provides a bit more speed control because of priority as well
[00:00:30] +nedor: and since stuff like darkspam overwhelms chomp, it would give us a secondary bish check
[00:01:03] +TDK: sash loom would force us to run defog lati, which would really be not-so-good with klefki
[00:01:21] #trinitrotoluene: hmm
[00:01:23] @Albacore: yeah esp since we have to forfeit hp fire on it then
[00:01:29] #trinitrotoluene: azu?
[00:01:38] @Snowydoe: we could run scarf excadrill
[00:01:39] @Albacore: azu isnt good vs elecs
[00:01:40] +nedor: that's true, scarf zone is always an option to improve match up against thundurus, but it might change the overall goal slightly
[00:01:56] @Snowydoe: scarf excadrill give spin + speed control
[00:02:14] @Albacore: exca oesnt help vs mana or sand for that matter so eh
[00:02:16] +nedor: would still struggle against sand offense
[00:02:35] #trinitrotoluene: how would tbolt lati do against mana?
[00:02:36] @Snowydoe: scarf lando then?
[00:02:48] @Albacore: scarf lando seems okay
[00:03:04] +TDK: draco is stronger than tbolt, tnt
[00:03:09] +nedor: tbolt lati seems fine as well as a more efficient mana check
[00:03:10] #trinitrotoluene: mm
[00:03:19] +nedor: bulky waters in general though
[00:03:48] +TDK: basically will have to run specs or LO Thunder, or find an actual manaphy check in the last slot
[00:03:59] +TDK: we will*
[00:04:12] #trinitrotoluene: i'm fine with running scarf on zone.
[00:04:25] @Snowydoe: rotom seems cool actually, although it doesnt provide us speed control or the best answer to things like mana
[00:04:35] @Snowydoe: scarf zone would make things easier tbh
[00:04:36] +nedor: cm lati + scarf mag would bait in pursuit trappers and provide m-diancie set up opportunities
[00:04:44] #trinitrotoluene: specs has more wallbreaking power, but if the extra speed helps the thundy mu, then let's do that.
[00:04:45] @Albacore: i'd much rather have lando-t than rotom
[00:04:46] +nedor: yeah scarf zone would help with this match up greatly
[00:04:52] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:05:10] #trinitrotoluene: how do we feel about making the mag a scarf set?
[00:05:18] @Snowydoe: i like
[00:05:19] +nedor: i'd prefer it on a build like this
[00:05:21] +TDK: probably for the best
[00:05:32] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:06:05] #trinitrotoluene: team so far: rp m-diancie / scarf zone / latios (set?) / keys (set?) / fatchomp / ___
[00:06:19] @Snowydoe: so now we can just focus on handling sand and thundy
[00:06:54] +TDK: i mean scarf mag is an "OK" check to thund alongside fat chomp & lati, although definitely not the best
[00:06:54] #trinitrotoluene: doesn't scarfzone + lati check thundy?
[00:07:02] +nedor: cm lati would provide a solid wallbreaker and baiting in common pursuit trappers for rp mdiancie, magnet rise keys would provide us a better ground resist than latios as well
[00:07:11] +TDK: last mon will have to be a check to sand as well as speed control
[00:07:24] +TDK: also, yes, CM Latios is the best for this team
[00:07:28] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:07:40] @Snowydoe: cm lati lets us destroy stall
[00:07:47] +TDK: although we can figure out details in the final slots
[00:07:55] +TDK: erh, after we figure out the final slot
[00:08:00] +nedor: yeah allows us to pressure stall and fatter builds, especially because of the support from zone
[00:08:15] @Albacore: so scarf lando-t or rotom-w p much
[00:08:38] @Snowydoe: i hate duel scarf
[00:08:40] #trinitrotoluene: !learn landorus-therian, tailwind
[00:08:40] Landorus-Therian can't learn Tailwind
[00:08:41] @Snowydoe: o the same team
[00:08:43] @Albacore: rotom's advantage is that it helps us handle azumarill
[00:08:49] +nedor: since we're now running scarf zone, toxic on chomp is an option to wear down mons like hippo
[00:09:04] #trinitrotoluene: twave keys + twave rotom-w?
[00:09:26] @Snowydoe: i like that actually, cause were p weak to zard x
[00:09:51] +nedor: that would provide us solid speed control, but we'd still need a solid sand check
[00:09:59] #trinitrotoluene: true.
[00:10:06] @Albacore: rotom's not a sand check?
[00:10:13] +nedor: oh we settled on rotom?
[00:10:14] @Snowydoe: rotom is a solid sand check, cause exca cant touch iit
[00:10:16] +nedor: my bad.
[00:10:20] #trinitrotoluene: pdef rotom-w does well enough.
[00:10:37] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:10:38] +nedor: would cripple standard switch ins like serp as well
[00:10:57] #trinitrotoluene: so, what have we decided on?
[00:11:19] +nedor: so mdiancie / scarfzone / cm lati / magnet rise? keys / fire blast or toxic fatchomp / twave rotomw
[00:11:47] +nedor: magnet rise isn't necessarily needed now because we have rotom-w as a ground check, running somethin like heal block would shut down fatter builds nicely
[00:11:47] @Snowydoe: btw since we are some what weak to thundy, what about letias? same set, just with the 72 or w.e hp evs
[00:12:10] @Albacore: we may want toxic on keys to further weakened bulky grounds, but if we already have it on chomp taht's not necessary
[00:12:14] +TDK: idt cm latias can pressure stall at all
[00:12:19] #trinitrotoluene: tbh, i don't feel too pressured by thundy.
[00:12:21] @Albacore: *that
[00:12:37] #trinitrotoluene: mag + lati should be enough to check it imo.
[00:12:51] +nedor: alba we haven't decided it yet, but it would be good as we have scarf zone to check all variants of scizor
[00:12:56] +nedor: yeah I agree tnt
[00:12:56] @Snowydoe: it's works the same against stall, you just have a little less power
[00:13:24] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:14:17] #trinitrotoluene: i'm not too fond of cm latias, but we can keep it in mind as something we can visit in the future for this team.
[00:14:55] @Snowydoe: sure, just because thundy is a bit threatening especially at +2 as it runs through us
[00:15:05] +nedor: tnt someone mentioned serp being problematic to the build but klefki is capable of checking it and scarf zone can potentially rkill once weakened
[00:15:31] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:15:52] #trinitrotoluene: since this is an offense team, i'm happy with just having checks to threats.
[00:15:55] +nedor: fairy lock, heal block, foul play are all solid options on keys right now
[00:17:10] +nedor: metal sounds is also a pretty interesting option to beat fat set up mons like clefable a bit more reliably
[00:17:12] #trinitrotoluene: so, let's decide on movesets. we have cm lati, but i don't think we have complete movesets for the other 3 members yet.
[00:17:15] +TDK: i'd think heal block would be solid, as clefbale seems somewhat anonying
[00:17:29] +nedor: heal block helps in general, i like it on this team.
[00:17:55] @Snowydoe: same
[00:18:11] @Snowydoe: since we arent spec zone, clef is annoying indeed
[00:18:37] +nedor: thunder wave / spikes / heal block or fairy lock or metal sounds to pressure fat set up mons and fatter teams / filler
[00:18:52] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:18:56] +TDK: oh, right, we're scarf now, we might actually have to use something like flash cannon + metal sound, as meh as it is, to not be extremely clef weak
[00:19:01] +nedor: and i'm p sure physdef twave rotom-w is a set we can agree on at this point
[00:19:03] +nedor: i agree TDK
[00:20:15] +nedor: metal sound would also allow us to revenge kill fatter mons with like lati or zone easier
[00:20:38] +TDK: i mean, there's not much practical use for it outside of clefable
[00:20:53] +TDK: there will be cases when it will work, but none would be worth using it for aside from clef
[00:21:05] +nedor: fair enough, but yeah there are a few situations
[00:21:29] +nedor: like for example, klefki can metal sound a thund and that allows mag to rkill it
[00:21:38] @Albacore: to be fair it lets it beat sableye too lol
[00:21:40] +nedor: how do you feel about toxic chomp here?
[00:21:43] +nedor: ye sab too
[00:21:46] @Albacore: but thats not really in aussie
[00:21:51] @Albacore: *issue
[00:21:55] +TDK: metal sound is bounced
[00:22:01] @Albacore: oh yeah im dumb
[00:22:04] @Albacore: nvm!
[00:22:32] +nedor: i'm actually liking toxic chomp over fire blast on this build to be honest
[00:23:36] #trinitrotoluene: hmm
[00:24:20] #trinitrotoluene: doesn't metal sound keys + toxic chomper check most clef sets?
[00:24:21] @Snowydoe: thing is that zone cant directly switch into scizor and since it's scarf it cant ohko spd, so having fb on chomp for scizor is nice
[00:25:01] +nedor: stacking up toxic + hazards or catching common switch ins like hippo or lando-t is nice, but fire blast is an option too
[00:26:16] #trinitrotoluene: yo
[00:26:20] +TDK: uh, im not too worried about zor
[00:26:25] #trinitrotoluene: what's the most common ev spread for clef?
[00:26:37] +TDK: the one in the calc i believe
[00:26:41] +nedor: 252 hp / 184 def / 72 spdef
[00:26:47] #trinitrotoluene: bold or calm?
[00:26:50] +nedor: calm
[00:26:55] #trinitrotoluene: ok,
[00:26:58] @Albacore: actually its 172 def 84 SpD
[00:27:29] +nedor: oh my bad mixed it up, but ye like zor is checking by a combination of rotom and mag
[00:28:04] @Snowydoe: rotom doesnt have wisp tho
[00:28:12] #trinitrotoluene: hmm
[00:28:24] @Snowydoe: so were relying on one mon that doesnt even ohko to beat it
[00:28:41] @Albacore: if rotom doesnt have wisp then we probs need fire blast on chomp
[00:28:43] #trinitrotoluene: i'm trying to see how many atk evs it would take for a diamond storm from m-diancie to 2hko clefable.
[00:28:48] +nedor: snowy, it can pivot out of scizor and trap with mag, twave also does cripple zor
[00:28:58] +nedor: but fire blast can be ran for assurance
[00:29:17] +TDK: trinitrotoluene, the problem is they will soft-boiled until you run out of pp
[00:29:35] +TDK: of dstorms, that is
[00:29:37] #trinitrotoluene: fair point.
[00:30:01] @Albacore: dual dance sharpen diancie imo
[00:30:22] #trinitrotoluene: unaware clef :/
[00:31:02] +nedor: unaware clef would be pressured by hazards anyways
[00:31:44] @Snowydoe: nedor, volt switch does 22% max to hap hp/176 spd scizor which doesnt put it in range of hp fire and also means it can sp on the switch
[00:31:52] +AD impish john: are we doing a Workshop atm?
[00:31:57] +nedor: yes AD
[00:32:21] +nedor: snowydoe, fair points, i'm not arguing against fire blast, it would be a solid option
[00:32:42] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:32:58] #trinitrotoluene: fire blast on chomper's last slot?
[00:33:22] +nedor: this is in theory so I'd honestly slash toxic, but fire blast is fine for now.
[00:34:09] @Snowydoe: it depends how the team plays, which we wont know with out testing, so slashing toxic is fine
[00:35:07] #trinitrotoluene: so, have we decided on 4 moves for klefki and an ev spread for garchomp, rotom-w, and klefki?
[00:35:38] +TDK: i think flash cannon + metal sound is the best bet on keys, and ev spread for chomper & rotom would just be standard, i believe
[00:35:45] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:35:47] +nedor: a mixed def klefki would be appreciated to take off pressure on rotom-w checking weavile
[00:36:07] @Albacore: come think of it, does klefki ned the SpD?
[00:36:12] @Albacore: i guess for serp
[00:36:48] +nedor: TDK I agree with that just because of Clefable being a problem
[00:37:04] %rob: i think spd is always best for klef
[00:37:13] #trinitrotoluene: should we have enough speed on chomper to creep bisharp?
[00:37:14] #trinitrotoluene: rob's here :D
[00:37:21] +TDK: y trinitrotoluene, always
[00:37:27] +nedor: alba I mean it would also better check stuff like lo gengar and general breakers like mgarde
[00:37:52] @Albacore: yeah i guess
[00:38:50] +TDK: alright, so have we agreed on the team?
[00:38:54] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:38:57] +nedor: i believe we have yes
[00:39:17] +TDK: can start deciding what core is next while tnt finishes EVing, assuming he has been thus far
[00:39:30] #trinitrotoluene: i've been inputting evs.
[00:39:41] +nedor: http://hastebin.com/uqefunefag.md here's the build
[00:40:19] #trinitrotoluene: yea, that's fine.
[00:40:31] #trinitrotoluene: what do the keys evs do?
[00:40:41] @Snowydoe: i liked that Toxic Altaria + Mew you suggested tdk
[00:41:06] #trinitrotoluene: that sounds like fun.
[00:41:14] +nedor: keys evs are for checking a majority of special wallbreakers and basic physical threats like weavile, tnt
[00:41:21] +nedor: relieves pressure on chomp and rotom
[00:41:35] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[00:42:12] #trinitrotoluene: so, do we want to work on tdk's toxic alt + mew core?
[00:42:18] +nedor: fine with it.
[00:43:19] +TDK: alrighty
[00:43:25] +TDK: let me grab the EVs, one moment
[00:44:12] +TDK: http://puu.sh/kiJdY/82a79bd4bb.txt
[00:44:36] +TDK: the altarira EVs allow you to take two lopunny returns / latios psyshocks as well as two charizard y fire blasts
[00:44:45] +TDK: mew's defensive evs are for lopunny after rocks
[00:44:47] #trinitrotoluene: oh damn
[00:44:52] #trinitrotoluene: nice evs.
[00:45:19] #trinitrotoluene: so, this looks like a decent start for a balanced or stall-ish team.
[00:45:38] +nedor: leaning towards fat balance / semi stall
[00:45:47] @Snowydoe: i was thinking a semi-stall
[00:45:49] +TDK: balance is typically best
[00:45:52] +TDK: imo
[00:46:16] @Albacore: well we need a bulky steel for fairy types
[00:46:46] @Albacore: can kyu-b beat that mew set?
[00:47:04] +nedor: unless it freezes, it cannot beat spdef mew
[00:47:10] #trinitrotoluene: funnily enough, diancie (a mon we worked w/ previously) looks like a threat to the core.
[00:48:20] #trinitrotoluene: one of our audience members suggested air balloon tran or av gross for the 3rd slot.
[00:48:22] @Snowydoe: fairies and steels do look really annoying
[00:49:08] +nedor: so for those watching rn, m-alt is capable of checking strong wallbreakers like zardy/x, subcm and specs keld, etc. as well as being capable of beating m-sab so mew has an easier time stallbreaking.
[00:49:09] @Snowydoe: hmm intresting, but things like heatran annoy us greatly, which thse dont really help too much with unless the ballon remains intake
[00:49:28] @Albacore: av gross seems okay but i'd prefer jirachi if we're going for balance/semistall
[00:49:55] @Albacore: heatran seems annoying but i dont think we can cover fairies and tran in one
[00:50:04] %rob: tran doesn't beat anything that altaria doesnt lure and ko itself
[00:50:06] +nedor: I agree with that, a bird and ground check would then be required
[00:50:44] @Albacore: ferro or jirachi depending on whether we'd rather be wea kto gardevori or altaria imo
[00:50:48] @Albacore: *weak
[00:51:01] @Snowydoe: yeah talonflame and excadrill looking scary
[00:51:07] +nedor: chople ferro is always an option but we're not at that point of deciding an item
[00:51:15] +nedor: ye spdef talon is extremely annoying right now
[00:51:46] @Albacore: we need some bulky water for SpD talon+tran
[00:52:21] +nedor: is Rachi the most likely third slot right now alba?
[00:52:40] +TDK: toxic altaria alleviates the talonflame weakness, but doesn't check it itself at all
[00:52:56] @Snowydoe: taunt talon destroys this core
[00:53:00] +TDK: the core is also rather weak to status; something to keep in mind
[00:53:11] @Albacore: bulky starie maybe?
[00:53:16] @Albacore: *starmie
[00:53:25] #trinitrotoluene: that exacerbates a vulnerability to weavile.
[00:53:29] +nedor: i was thinking that from the beginning, a status absorber would be extremely appreciated
[00:53:32] @Albacore: hm true
[00:53:46] @Albacore: and we already have 2 psychics presumably
[00:54:05] #trinitrotoluene: so, we've basically agreed to use jirachi in slot 3, right?
[00:54:09] @Albacore: even so, we probably want hazard removal
[00:54:14] +nedor: m-alt / mew / rachi ? / bulky water is probably something we'll go with
[00:54:16] +nedor: yeah i think so tnt
[00:54:48] #trinitrotoluene: alright.
[00:54:50] @Snowydoe: what do we have jrachi for?
[00:54:56] @Albacore: fairies
[00:55:02] +nedor: fairy check, steel check
[00:55:02] @Albacore: particularly garde
[00:55:02] @Snowydoe: could we run spd skarm
[00:55:09] @Snowydoe: and not have 2/6 members trapped
[00:55:10] @Albacore: actually yeah we could
[00:55:31] @Albacore: that seems like a better idea since we can maybe fit defog in it
[00:55:44] +nedor: yeah provides better role compression which is nice for a core like this
[00:55:44] @Albacore: *on
[00:55:52] @Albacore: or spikes to wear down tran
[00:55:55] +TDK: also a super solid ground immunity
[00:56:31] +nedor: a bulky water like cune would provide a check to weavile and other physical threats while providing a status absorber but taunt is annoying
[00:56:57] @Albacore: i like suicune on that team
[00:57:11] @Albacore: bulky water that isn't pursuit bait seems neat
[00:57:21] @Albacore: alos roar+spikes is cool
[00:57:25] @Albacore: *also
[00:57:27] +nedor: as do I, would provide a solid win condition, nice role compression, access to roar for phazing
[00:57:30] #trinitrotoluene: team so far is alt / mew / skarm / suicune / ___ / ___, right?
[00:57:34] +TDK: cune is solid, but once we pick our water, we will need a ground, as we're very volt turn weak
[00:57:48] @Snowydoe: agreed
[00:57:55] #trinitrotoluene: how does mixed hippo sound as a ground?
[00:57:59] @Snowydoe: or we can run a regen mon that doesnt mind volt switch
[00:58:04] #trinitrotoluene: *mixed defenses hippo
[00:58:18] +TDK: obviously hippowdon looks best on paper, but i'm not too sure it's best considering how passive the team already is
[00:58:31] #trinitrotoluene: yea.
[00:58:42] +nedor: TDK mentioned balance would probably be the best route and this is leaning towards semi-stall right now
[00:59:12] +TDK: also, a thing to note, if we were to opt keldeo > cune, we would also have a solid bisharp check
[00:59:21] +TDK: while still having a good water that checks weavile
[00:59:35] #trinitrotoluene: actually, keld would check weavile better than cune would.
[00:59:40] @Albacore: yeah
[00:59:46] +nedor: that is true, subcm keld would honestly be cool in this scenario
[00:59:47] #trinitrotoluene: it also brings more offensive firepower at the cost of a bit of bulk.
[01:00:15] @Snowydoe: it gets worn down however, unless you want to run tmck's legendary rest talk set
[01:00:21] +nedor: hippo would then require stone edge because keldeo isnt capable of checking talon for obvious reasons
[01:00:41] +nedor: if we choose it as the bulky ground
[01:01:06] %rob: i dont think we need a passive ground, nidoqueen would seem pretty good right here with support from alt, mew, and skarm, it'll check most steels/fairies while providing rocks
[01:01:25] #trinitrotoluene: queen also gives the team a strong clef check.
[01:01:37] %rob: fire blast nidoqueen
[01:02:30] +nedor: keep in mind, since we're running keldeo > cune rn, a status absorber would be required and we are extremely weavile weak
[01:02:57] @Snowydoe: i would say extremely
[01:03:03] @Snowydoe: cause keldeo takes it on
[01:03:10] @Snowydoe: skarm even though spd
[01:03:14] @Snowydoe: isnt 2hkod
[01:03:32] +nedor: fair enough but we do lose a status absorber which is pretty annoying
[01:04:29] @Snowydoe: we could run tmck rest-talk lo keldeo
[01:04:48] +nedor: keld does get weakened / overwhelmed by darkspam so i was leaning towards resttalk keld as well
[01:05:04] @Albacore: if we want a status absorber we can be lazy and just slap on a clefable
[01:05:18] +TDK: yea, clef is good
[01:05:38] @Snowydoe: does mew take on kyurem w/ that spread tdk
[01:05:56] +TDK: 252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 100+ SpD Mew: 164-192 (40.8 - 47.8%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
[01:06:08] +nedor: 252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Mew: 164-192 (40.6 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
[01:06:12] +nedor: oops
[01:06:14] @Snowydoe: dope
[01:06:18] %rob: cune is a better fit than keldeo if we're slapping clef on
[01:06:20] +TDK: it was the best spread possibly to handle as many things as possible
[01:07:42] +nedor: manaphy is something thats also problematic rn
[01:08:03] +TDK: np thundurus as well
[01:08:09] +TDK: the team is very slow atm
[01:08:35] @Snowydoe: we could run rest-talk sap sipper azu as dumb as that sounds it's solid check to manaphy, serp, zard y, zard x etc
[01:09:13] #trinitrotoluene: this also gives the team a status absorber.
[01:09:54] +nedor: would leave us a bit more prone to SD bisharp, but a bulky ground should probably be ran in the next slot.
[01:10:02] #trinitrotoluene: but this enhances the thundy weak.
[01:10:08] #trinitrotoluene: the azu, that is.
[01:10:52] +nedor: a hippo with a ton of spdef would be needed in the next slot for np thund
[01:11:03] @Snowydoe: at this point I feel like we just go the semi stall route and make it more fat, cause that way we can handle some of these threats better
[01:11:33] +nedor: thats true but at the same time not making the build extremely passive
[01:11:48] @Snowydoe: i kind of like gastrodon on this team as our bulky water
[01:12:07] %rob: whats the team so far? alt, mew, skarm, cune?
[01:12:23] @Snowydoe: alt, mew, skarm, undecided bulky water
[01:12:34] +nedor: i was thinking seismi / gastro earlier but it would still leave us vulnerable to tg mana
[01:13:00] @Snowydoe: we could run unaware clef with heal bell
[01:13:04] @Snowydoe: for manaphy
[01:14:23] @Snowydoe: we could go gastrodon, then serp to gives us the offensive part of the semi stall
[01:14:27] +nedor: it would be like malt / mew / spdef skarm / bulky water / ground / clef which seems pretty passive and overwhelmed by general type spam
[01:15:08] %rob: mew becomes expendable with the addition of clef
[01:15:42] +TDK: i like the idea of gastrodon
[01:15:55] +TDK: although it doesn't help w. np thundurus
[01:16:08] +nedor: gastro + unaware clef would have to be ran in that case
[01:16:31] @Snowydoe: tdk, we innovate and make amnesia gastro :p
[01:16:36] +TDK: well we don't have to run clef; i think thus far we've only agreed w/ the first 3
[01:16:49] @Snowydoe: yeah p much
[01:16:50] +TDK: lol, it really gets amnesia
[01:16:53] @Snowydoe: it does
[01:16:56] +nedor: im saying unaware clef because of how weak the build is to tg mana
[01:17:37] @Snowydoe: im also a fan of gliscor
[01:17:54] +TDK: i think gastrodon + manaphy check is the best way to go after the first three
[01:18:04] +TDK: BTW, i have to leave after we finish this team, as a heads up
[01:18:10] @Snowydoe: np
[01:18:18] @Snowydoe: how do you feel about gastro+serp
[01:18:36] +TDK: i like serp, but we'll need a good thund check in the last slot
[01:18:46] +nedor: serp would make the team slightly less passive but more weak to np thund ye
[01:18:50] +TDK: erh, also a talon check
[01:19:49] @Snowydoe: actually
[01:19:54] @Snowydoe: what about thundy > serp
[01:20:00] +nedor: in that case hippo + serp + filler
[01:20:17] +TDK: i like thund a lot, although we
[01:20:25] +TDK: will need a thund check of our own
[01:20:53] +nedor: thats why I mentioned it would have to be something along the lines of spdef hippo + serp
[01:22:04] @Snowydoe: how about celebi for thundy and to act as a status absorber
[01:22:42] @Snowydoe: although, not a fan of 2/6 mons being trapped potentially
[01:22:53] @Snowydoe: it still seems solid
[01:22:57] #trinitrotoluene: shaymin?
[01:22:58] +TDK: eh, bii doesn't really check thundy
[01:23:01] +nedor: something like perish celebi + hippo seems appealing to me to help with fat set up mons but yeah the fact that its pursuit trapper is problematic
[01:23:03] +TDK: np thund, that is
[01:23:09] @Snowydoe: psyshic cm tdk?
[01:23:37] +TDK: unless you're running sdef cm
[01:24:03] +nedor: how do you feel about perish cele + mixed def stone edge hippo?
[01:24:23] %rob: cm raikou?
[01:24:35] @Snowydoe: i prefer to stick with gastro > hippo
[01:24:55] @Snowydoe: cm raikou seems cool
[01:25:08] +nedor: snowy, the last slot would then have to be a rocker and a better bird check
[01:25:14] +TDK: i think gastrodon + cm raikou + heatran are the best options in the last 3 slots
[01:25:14] +nedor: cm kou does seem nice here
[01:25:50] +TDK: raikou checks thund and mana, gastro checks non-np thund and elecs as well as keld and provides a win con, tran helps us handle both mega zor and clefable
[01:26:32] +nedor: cm raikou also helps with spdef talon which is an issue
[01:26:52] %rob: altaria, mew, keldeo, raikou, heatran, gastrodon
[01:26:59] @Snowydoe: i like it
[01:27:21] +nedor: rob, in that case, chople tran would be needed for mgarde
[01:27:40] %rob: o
[01:28:05] +nedor: a ground resist also doesnt exist which is very bad
[01:28:08] %rob: thats not the team we had skarmory
[01:28:13] +nedor: so skarm would be optimal
[01:28:18] +TDK: without skarmory we also lose to altaria completely
[01:29:24] @Snowydoe: if they bring facade/fire blast/dd/eq mega alt u know your getting c-teamed
[01:29:33] +nedor: are we going subcm kou or cm volt?
[01:29:45] @Snowydoe: I like cm volt
[01:29:58] +TDK: trinitrotoluene, you still there?
[01:30:03] #trinitrotoluene: ye.
[01:30:21] +TDK: i think we all agree with this team, yea?
[01:30:23] #trinitrotoluene: yep.
[01:30:26] +nedor: yep
[01:30:28] +TDK: i'll finish the EVs and then hop off
[01:30:29] @Snowydoe: yep
[01:30:33] #trinitrotoluene: alright.
[01:30:36] +TDK: you guys can work on another if you'd like
[01:30:57] #trinitrotoluene: tdk, when you're done, please post an importable here in the main chat.
[01:31:02] +TDK: yep
[01:31:05] +nedor: i have about half an hour left as i'm really tired, we can probably fit another build if you guys want
[01:31:26] #trinitrotoluene: i'm saving both teams to my side so i can edit them into the log that will be posted later.
[01:31:35] %rob: i have a build
[01:31:41] %rob: 6 garchomps!
[01:31:50] +TDK: do you guys think we should opt for sdef gastro to help w. lo zam or phys def for keldeo?
[01:31:54] +TDK: i think sdef is best
[01:32:05] +TDK: also; exacts of the heatran set?
[01:32:20] @Snowydoe: rocks, enough speed for bisharp
[01:32:22] @Snowydoe: lume
[01:32:28] +nedor: rocks, taunt, plume, toxic seems fine
[01:32:59] +TDK: hm, maybe wisp is best
[01:33:01] +TDK: for sharp
[01:33:45] +nedor: stone edge is also an option for spdef and sd talon, but as bisharp is a bigger threat to the team, wisp seems fine to cripple switch ins
[01:33:54] +TDK: anyway, this is what i'd opt with, if you'd like to make changes feel free, i'm logging off now. hf guys
[01:33:55] +TDK: http://puu.sh/kiLvi/5d16440f47.txt
[01:34:08] #trinitrotoluene: ty tdk.
[01:34:15] #trinitrotoluene: so, how are we feeling rn?
[01:34:37] @Snowydoe: p tired, but I want to get in another one
[01:34:42] @Snowydoe: maybe 2 if were down
[01:34:44] +nedor: fairly tired but i'm up for another build
[01:34:53] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[01:35:09] #trinitrotoluene: if you guys want to go on, then let's go.
[01:35:21] @Snowydoe: ok, lets pick a core
[01:35:36] #trinitrotoluene: let's see...
[01:35:45] @Snowydoe: Mega Heracross + TTar + Excadrill by tdk looks cool
[01:35:56] @Snowydoe: as a nice sand offence
[01:35:56] +nedor: lo chomp + mgarde is an option, and i enjoyed that core as well w mhera
[01:35:57] #trinitrotoluene: nice sand offense core.
[01:36:01] +nedor: yeah I like it
[01:36:16] %rob: hoopa + lop?
[01:36:18] %rob: o
[01:36:44] #trinitrotoluene: having 3 members makes it easier (and harder) to build.
[01:36:45] #trinitrotoluene: rob, we'll cover hoopa + lop after this if nedor and snowydoe want to.
[01:36:53] @Snowydoe: sure thing
[01:37:13] +nedor: tnt I agree, most 3 mon cores restrict the build slightly, but it should go by quick.
[01:37:28] #trinitrotoluene: ok, let's look at the main problem: azumarill.
[01:37:32] #trinitrotoluene: wait.
[01:37:36] #trinitrotoluene: we need the core itself.
[01:37:45] @Snowydoe: shit tdk whwere are u
[01:37:58] @Snowydoe: p sure it was standard scarf tar
[01:38:13] #trinitrotoluene: thought it was smooth rock ttar, but idk.
[01:38:29] @Snowydoe: we can go with what we like
[01:38:41] @Snowydoe: doesnt really matter if we have the og sets or not
[01:38:59] +nedor: tdk didnt specify it but i think either smooth rock or scarftar should be fine
[01:39:36] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[01:39:41] @Snowydoe: what kind of cross set we going?
[01:39:58] +nedor: sd / sub + 3 attacks, i'm fine with either.
[01:39:59] #trinitrotoluene: i'm guessing sd, but we can use bullet seed to give azu hell.
[01:40:18] @Snowydoe: I like AoA set actually
[01:40:22] +nedor: oh that is a good point
[01:40:25] @Snowydoe: just because it destrys stall
[01:40:34] @Snowydoe: although sd does the same
[01:40:43] @Snowydoe: so im happy with either one
[01:41:10] #trinitrotoluene: sd it is.
[01:41:13] +nedor: i mean mhera already 2hkoes stuff like quag, and SD helps break fatter builds even further, it might be better in the long run, but fine with aoa as well
[01:41:15] +nedor: alrighty
[01:41:25] +nedor: http://hastebin.com/udogohenem.md tnt
[01:41:38] #trinitrotoluene: ty nedor for being so prompt with these cores.
[01:41:59] +nedor: np :]
[01:42:07] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[01:42:19] #trinitrotoluene: **now** let's look at some problems.
[01:42:25] +nedor: guts is the pre-mega ability to switch into burns
[01:42:31] #trinitrotoluene: first off, what combination of mons walls this core?
[01:42:33] @Snowydoe: so first things I notice are opposing sand destroys us, azu doe sthe same
[01:42:52] +nedor: alright azu and general offense breakers are problematic
[01:42:55] @Snowydoe: what walls it is skarm+clef
[01:43:04] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[01:43:07] @Snowydoe: unaware clef can live any hit for cross
[01:43:15] @Snowydoe: and skarm can take on exca+tar
[01:43:40] +nedor: sd drill + sd mhera do pressure them quite a bit, but its still a bit problematic to break
[01:44:19] #trinitrotoluene: i'd suggest replacing ice beam with fire blast, but that removes one of our better options for luring in landoge + chomper.
[01:44:24] #trinitrotoluene: on ttar, that is.
[01:44:38] @Snowydoe: luring chomp+lando seems better imo
[01:44:41] +nedor: that's true
[01:44:50] @Snowydoe: cause hera+excadrill have trouble breaking them
[01:44:55] #trinitrotoluene: manaphy looks like a problem.
[01:45:00] +nedor: not just azu, but general water types bother us like manaphy, keld etc
[01:45:11] @Snowydoe: rain destroys this in general
[01:45:42] +nedor: how do you feel about tbolt lati + fairy check
[01:46:15] +nedor: tbolt latias*
[01:46:33] #trinitrotoluene: mm, i like the idea of latias.
[01:46:57] #trinitrotoluene: we get the option of using healing wish if we want to, giving one of hera or drill a second chance at sweeping / breaking.
[01:47:10] @Snowydoe: I like hw lati
[01:47:20] +nedor: as do I
[01:47:22] @Snowydoe: I also thing we need an opposing sand check
[01:47:28] #trinitrotoluene: azumarill? breloom?
[01:47:55] @Snowydoe: I like azu
[01:48:00] +nedor: ye we definitely do, azu would be too restricting for the build rn but it is a potential sand and rain check
[01:48:11] +nedor: serp and thund are also options
[01:48:35] @Snowydoe: I like scarf lando as well
[01:49:05] +nedor: band azu + sd driller + mhera would overwhelm a lot of fat cores
[01:49:20] @Snowydoe: yeah I like azu on this team alot
[01:49:21] #trinitrotoluene: haha, that's true.
[01:49:29] #trinitrotoluene: azu y/y?
[01:49:33] @Snowydoe: yyyy
[01:49:43] +nedor: agreed, y
[01:49:50] #trinitrotoluene: ok, slot 6.
[01:50:02] @Snowydoe: thundy
[01:50:06] @Snowydoe: looks really annoying
[01:50:20] #trinitrotoluene: we have exca + latias, and azu to rkill.
[01:50:21] +nedor: i mean we have lati + ttar + drill to help with it
[01:50:23] @Snowydoe: since no reliable recovery on lati and tar isnt scarf
[01:50:38] +nedor: drill is capable of rkilling fairly easily
[01:50:40] #trinitrotoluene: how about we make ttar scarf and use hippo in slot 6?
[01:50:48] +nedor: especially since we're smooth rock > scarf which allows for more turns
[01:50:51] @Snowydoe: I like scarf tar
[01:51:18] #trinitrotoluene: hippo helps us __not__ get destroyed by m-lop.
[01:51:23] @Snowydoe: hippo gives us an answer to lop and stuff too
[01:51:44] @Snowydoe: but I actually like defensive skarm ebtter
[01:51:48] +nedor: the core requires a solid defensive backbone w generic resists so i think scarftar wouldn't be great, but its an option
[01:52:15] @Snowydoe: skarm means that lop doesnt destroy us as well as opposing azu
[01:52:32] +nedor: it also makes sure azu doesnt get overwhelmed by sand
[01:52:46] @Snowydoe: as well as defog
[01:52:50] @Snowydoe: spport
[01:52:58] #trinitrotoluene: this frees up a slot on latias.
[01:53:15] #trinitrotoluene: which means we can potentially get both roost and healing wish :D
[01:53:26] +nedor: tbolt / psyshock / healing wish / roost sounds interesting LOL
[01:54:00] @Snowydoe: we could just run spikes/bb/roost/ww on skarm and leave defog
[01:54:15] @Snowydoe: which sounds better to me
[01:54:25] @Snowydoe: then leave tar as smooth rock with sr
[01:54:35] #trinitrotoluene: this takes some pressure off skarm to do everything, which is nice.
[01:54:50] +nedor: msciz is fairly annoying rn, av tangrowth and rotom-h would provide interesting pivots, while checking thund and serp slightly better
[01:55:00] +nedor: there's multiple options currently
[01:55:01] @Snowydoe: also if your skarm is your azu check, it needs to be able to hit it
[01:55:16] #trinitrotoluene: snowy, thoughts on nedor's ideas?
[01:55:36] +nedor: hp fire tang would be ran though to better check sciz and a solid pivot / defensive mon to better check sand and rain
[01:55:40] +nedor: it seems very interesting
[01:55:57] @Snowydoe: rotom heat over what rn?
[01:56:05] +nedor: azu would otherwise be pressure to check rain
[01:56:18] #trinitrotoluene: i'm guessing tang + rotom-h over azu + hippo / skarm.
[01:56:42] +nedor: both tang and rotom arent required
[01:56:46] @Snowydoe: tbh I was justing replace azu with keldeo
[01:56:57] @Snowydoe: that way we beat scizor
[01:57:04] @Snowydoe: and steel in general like sharp
[01:57:07] +nedor: that would make us more weak to sand offense, but keld + av tang seems really appealing
[01:57:17] @Snowydoe: we have skarm for sand
[01:57:21] +nedor: and av tang checks sand and azumarill
[01:57:29] +nedor: oh we are running skarm, mb
[01:57:39] +nedor: sand and rain*
[01:57:42] @Snowydoe: idk I would rather just replace azu with something for scor
[01:57:57] +nedor: i like your idea of keldeo in that slot
[01:58:01] @Snowydoe: cause it looks super solid rn
[01:58:08] +nedor: but keldeo + av tang seems incredible currently
[01:58:41] #trinitrotoluene: so, what have we agreed upon? core / latias / skarm / _?
[01:59:06] @Snowydoe: idk if we care about volt-turn though cause mane+electrics do 0 to tar
[01:59:15] @Snowydoe: and we have skarm for lando and stuff
[01:59:30] @Snowydoe: also we have access to hw supportif they get weakened
[01:59:34] +nedor: we're guaranteed running skarm?
[01:59:37] #trinitrotoluene: yep.
[01:59:47] @Snowydoe: yeah skarm seem too good to give up
[01:59:54] @Snowydoe: I think we just change azu out
[02:00:03] +nedor: yeah azu is out i think.
[02:00:32] @Snowydoe: basically jusyt need another water type
[02:00:33] #trinitrotoluene: so, we're deciding something for slot #6.
[02:00:37] @Snowydoe: that can beat scizor
[02:00:37] +nedor: mhera / drill / ttar / skarmory / av tang / latias?
[02:00:50] +nedor: oh yeah sciz check :c
[02:01:16] +nedor: i think mhera / drill / ttar / skarm / av tang / keldeo is okay
[02:01:22] +nedor: there's so many options rn
[02:01:36] @Snowydoe: I like hp fire manaphy and keldeo > azu
[02:02:08] @Snowydoe: hp fire manaphy pairs really well with tar, cause it traps the latis which it couldnt otherwise touch
[02:02:27] +nedor: i agree with manaphy because of pursuit support, making us a bit less vulnerable to talon as well
[02:02:34] #trinitrotoluene: manaphy also gives this team yet another way to pressure fat fucks.
[02:02:45] @Snowydoe: yeah
[02:02:48] +nedor: yeah mhera + sd drill + tg mana says fuck you to stall which i enjoy
[02:02:54] @Snowydoe: + goth comes in
[02:02:57] @Snowydoe: you double into tar
[02:03:00] @Snowydoe: and say good bye
[02:03:12] #trinitrotoluene: thoughts on shed shell skarm?
[02:03:57] +nedor: i think shed shell skarm is an option but not necessarily needed because drill in sand checks m-alt even at +2, but it would give us a better check to it and allow us to keep momentum
[02:03:58] @Snowydoe: It a must i guess, cause are main switch into physically attacks like landwhich have access to u-turn and could go skarm
[02:04:32] @Snowydoe: it's either lefties or shed shell
[02:04:40] #trinitrotoluene: i'm just suggesting it because skarm looks like primary b8 for goth otherwise.
[02:04:52] +nedor: leaf storm tangrowth imho, higher roll on manaphy which is a bit of a problem, there's also rock slide or hp fire to help lure talon / other birds and help w mciz
[02:04:58] +nedor: tnt shed shell seems fine
[02:05:42] @Snowydoe: i personally just like heracross/tar/excadrill/manaphy/skarm
[02:05:52] @Snowydoe: latias
[02:06:02] #trinitrotoluene: that seems fine.
[02:06:14] #trinitrotoluene: let's work on sets for lati, skarm, and mana.
[02:06:17] +nedor: that seems fine as well making us less weak to zard y
[02:06:41] +nedor: tg + scald + hp fire + ? mana currently.
[02:06:47] @Snowydoe: eball
[02:07:06] @Snowydoe: we dont need ice beam when he have pursuit trap for lati and hp fire hits grasses any way
[02:07:33] +nedor: tbolt / healing wish / psyshock / ? lati
[02:07:51] #trinitrotoluene: ttar also gets ice beam.
[02:07:52] @Snowydoe: i like psychic more for hippo
[02:08:04] +nedor: psychic is fine
[02:08:27] @Snowydoe: I would also run draco > thunder bolt, cause like tdk said, draco does more
[02:08:39] #trinitrotoluene: alright.
[02:08:42] +AD impish john: Draco Meteor is better imo
[02:08:43] +nedor: i guess so, seems fine.
[02:08:46] #trinitrotoluene: we need to decide on a slot 4.
[02:08:51] @Snowydoe: defog
[02:08:59] #trinitrotoluene: right.
[02:09:00] +nedor: i think defog or roost is fine
[02:09:00] +AD impish john: Defog obviosly
[02:09:13] #trinitrotoluene: evs: 72 hp / 184 spa / 252 spe, right?
[02:09:22] +nedor: yes
[02:09:28] @Snowydoe: yep
[02:09:34] #trinitrotoluene: ok.
[02:09:40] #trinitrotoluene: now, for skarm.
[02:09:45] +nedor: skarm = spikes, roost, whirlwind, ?
[02:09:55] @Snowydoe: +bb
[02:10:09] #trinitrotoluene: evs?
[02:10:15] @Snowydoe: like 12 speed evs for azu
[02:10:18] @Snowydoe: 248
[02:10:20] @Snowydoe: hp
[02:10:21] +nedor: 248 hp / 12 speed / def
[02:10:23] @Snowydoe: rest in def
[02:10:29] #trinitrotoluene: 248 hp / 248 def / 12 spe, right?
[02:10:32] +nedor: yes
[02:10:35] @Snowydoe: yeah
[02:10:38] +AD impish john: yup
[02:10:41] #trinitrotoluene: cool.
[02:10:50] #trinitrotoluene: what did we decide on manaphy?
[02:11:00] +AD impish john: can I have the link to the team?
[02:11:03] @Snowydoe: energy ball, hp fire, scalf
[02:11:11] @Snowydoe: scald*
[02:11:18] @Snowydoe: max speed, max spa
[02:11:21] +nedor: http://pastebin.com/iJzGshmb
[02:11:24] +nedor: theres the build
[02:11:26] @Snowydoe: so we can creep other manaphy and hit with eball
[02:11:37] +AD impish john: EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe w/ Timid Nature
[02:11:48] +nedor: ad max speed is fine as well.
[02:11:53] @Snowydoe: we need to out speed outher manaphy is the thing
[02:12:00] #trinitrotoluene: thank you, nedor.
[02:12:04] +nedor: np
[02:12:24] @Snowydoe: caause if excadrill is dead then were p screwed cause latias cant ohko
[02:12:33] @Snowydoe: and we cant afford be slower
[02:12:41] @Snowydoe: so just run timid 252
[02:12:44] @Snowydoe: with max spa
[02:12:45] #trinitrotoluene: the extra bulk doesn't do much regardless.
[02:13:09] +nedor: seems solid, counter is also an option over brave bird
[02:13:26] +nedor: i have to be up in like 3-4 hours, so, solid builds tonight and had fun, bye guys n_n
[02:13:26] @Snowydoe: I prefer bb
[02:13:36] @Snowydoe: for like gardevoir
[02:13:37] #trinitrotoluene: mm, we're done for now, right?
[02:13:42] @Snowydoe: and loom
[02:13:45] @Snowydoe: yeah
[02:13:49] #trinitrotoluene: ok, cool.
[02:13:53] @Snowydoe: it's been 2 and a half hours
[02:14:04] +AD impish john: nice
[02:14:19] #trinitrotoluene: thanks for working on this workshop Snowydoe, nedor, tdk, rob, Albacore n_n
[02:14:27] @Snowydoe: np :]
[02:14:32] +nedor: np :] cya guys later!
[02:14:33] +AD impish john: Sorry I was late, I was finishing my projects on Smogon
[02:14:33] #trinitrotoluene: i'll pull logs and get the teams posted soo.
[02:14:39] #trinitrotoluene: *soon.
[02:14:43] #trinitrotoluene: until then...
[02:14:47] |raw|<div class="broadcast-blue"><b>Moderated chat was disabled!</b><br />Anyone may talk now.</div>
[02:16:21] (nedor was demoted to Room regular user by trinitrotoluene.)