on euclideon voxel raytracing + calcuable curves

6:48 PM: THE COMPUTER ONLY HAS TO CALCULATE/DRAW THE OUTLINES BASED ON WHAT IT SEES AS AN EDGE IN 3D SPACE GIVEN THAT IT HAS BEEN BEEN PRE FED THE 3D MAP OF LASER LENGTHS FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES

7:03 PM: COMBINE MOVEMENT ON RAYTRACED MAP TO BE LINEAR WITH TRADITIONAL POLYGONAL OBJECTS TO CREATE EVEN BETTER GRAPHICS


Never tell your password to anyone.
4:24 PM - euclideon raytracing: do you teach math? I have a faint memory of you teaching math when we played highlander
4:24 PM - Fire Dog: yeah i taught math and physics stuff
4:25 PM - euclideon raytracing: what is a computational color buffer
4:26 PM - euclideon raytracing: ?
4:26 PM - euclideon raytracing: I read this phrase online and need to understand it
4:26 PM - Fire Dog: can you link me what you read?
4:28 PM - euclideon raytracing: http://www.codersnotes.com/notes/euclideon-explained/
4:29 PM - euclideon raytracing: does any of this make sense to you?
4:29 PM - Fire Dog: yeah i'm just reading it
4:30 PM - euclideon raytracing: when I take showers I think about a lot of questions that relate to this subject
4:30 PM - euclideon raytracing: and I've brought it up to my parents but I never have read it online until today
4:31 PM - euclideon raytracing: I didn't there were people thinking the way I do
4:31 PM - euclideon raytracing: didn't think*
4:31 PM - Fire Dog: I've never heard that exact term before but i think i know what it means
4:31 PM - Fire Dog: so it seems this is an attempt to do 3-d rendering but like the article says it can't actually do animation so it has to do stop mmotion using prebuilt trees
4:32 PM - Fire Dog: a buffer is a temporary storage space in memmory for things to just wait until they get moved to where they need to go
4:33 PM - euclideon raytracing: imagine if you replace an entire map's static polygons with raytracing and an extremely simple color system
4:33 PM - euclideon raytracing: is this possible
4:33 PM - Fire Dog: I think a computational color buffer is just a piece of memory where color information is stored until it's used to actually render the scene
4:34 PM - Fire Dog: I mean you could but raytracing is way more computationally expensive
4:34 PM - Fire Dog: you'd be playing at like less than an fps with current graphics cards I'm pretty sure
4:34 PM - Fire Dog: if you're talking about video games or something like that
4:35 PM - euclideon raytracing: couldn't a color buffer be as simple as overlaying an hd video from the pov of the raytracer camera
4:35 PM - euclideon raytracing: ?
4:35 PM - euclideon raytracing: maybe you can write something
4:36 PM - euclideon raytracing: that combines the raytracing and video
4:37 PM - Fire Dog: maybe but what would be the benefit
4:37 PM - Fire Dog: in order for it to be fast you would have to have minimal raytracing
4:38 PM - euclideon raytracing: easier special effects
4:37 PM - Fire Dog: so would it even have a worthwhile benefit
4:37 PM - Fire Dog: oh wait
4:38 PM - Fire Dog: you mean like render different things with different methods
4:38 PM - euclideon raytracing: I mean what I said yes
4:39 PM - euclideon raytracing: pieces of pencil led are useless unless you have a mechanical pencil
4:39 PM - euclideon raytracing: lead*
4:39 PM - Fire Dog: yeah it sounds plausible but I haven't really done any serious work with this stuff so I don't know the implementation
4:40 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you simply think about the logical implications it becomes clear that the uncanny valley is deeper than we might have once thought
4:41 PM - euclideon raytracing: the camera movement in these euclideon youtube videos unnerves me
4:41 PM - euclideon raytracing: on an evolutionary level
4:41 PM - Fire Dog: I think part of it is that they use this stop motion method
4:42 PM - Fire Dog: it does look very strange
4:42 PM - euclideon raytracing: explain stop motion method
4:43 PM - euclideon raytracing: also does a very large data base decrease the need for computational power in some applications?
4:43 PM - Fire Dog: stop motion is just linking still images together
4:43 PM - Fire Dog: so they render each image ahead of time and then chain them together
4:44 PM - Fire Dog: versus what people usually use which is creating an actual model and animating it
4:45 PM - Fire Dog: also alarge database would increase computational time depending on how it's accessed
4:45 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you take multiple pictures of an object from all angles with lasers can you extrapolate a computable 3d space
4:45 PM - euclideon raytracing: by simply analyzing the pictures
4:45 PM - Fire Dog: yeah you should be able to
4:46 PM - Fire Dog: that's basically how we perceive 3-d anyway
4:46 PM - Fire Dog: our eyes only capture a 2 dimensional image that we interpret as 3-d
4:49 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you can make a bunch of these real life equivalents to tf2 smooths could you add an extremely realistic bob and head turning then place the smooth in a 3d environment where the camera was above the ground at the average height of a human
4:50 PM - euclideon raytracing: we will be able to replace voice actors soon
4:51 PM - euclideon raytracing: that's not related to anything I just thought about it
4:50 PM - Fire Dog: lol
4:50 PM - Fire Dog: i mean
4:51 PM - Fire Dog: to really create a perfect 3-d space from 2d images
4:51 PM - Fire Dog: you would need an infinite amount to be sure
4:51 PM - Fire Dog: but you really only need to make sure you know the distances between things
4:51 PM - Fire Dog: to get a decent idea
4:53 PM - euclideon raytracing: does an artist need to know the superposition of every atom's particles to draw a picture of it?
4:53 PM - Fire Dog: nah which is whhat I'm saying
4:53 PM - Fire Dog: you don't need unlimited detail to get a good representation
4:54 PM - Fire Dog: so you would probably need like
4:54 PM - euclideon raytracing: you need very good detail
4:54 PM - Fire Dog: idk
4:54 PM - euclideon raytracing: infinite and very good are infinitely apart
4:55 PM - Fire Dog: you would have to quantify that somehow
4:55 PM - Fire Dog: like do you want to know sutff on the millimeter scale or what
4:55 PM - Fire Dog: that would determine how many 2-d images you would need to ensure that much detail
4:56 PM - euclideon raytracing: how good are laser camera
4:57 PM - euclideon raytracing: cameras?
4:56 PM - Fire Dog: well theoretically
4:57 PM - Fire Dog: they use photons
4:57 PM - Fire Dog: depending on the type of photon
4:57 PM - Fire Dog: the wavelength specifically
4:57 PM - Fire Dog: it would affect the resolution
4:57 PM - euclideon raytracing: I thought you couldn't send information at light speed
4:58 PM - euclideon raytracing: shining laser back at a singular point to be interpreted is not sending information
4:58 PM - euclideon raytracing: lasers*
4:59 PM - euclideon raytracing: isn't that like seeing with eyeballs
4:59 PM - euclideon raytracing: but I don't see and interpret laser light
4:59 PM - euclideon raytracing: and why can't you just take close up pictures
4:59 PM - euclideon raytracing: and store them
5:00 PM - euclideon raytracing: if memories are in the past could they not simply be prerendered?
5:01 PM - euclideon raytracing: can we make electricity move in a simulation exactly how it would move through a flesh brain?
5:02 PM - euclideon raytracing: sorry if you don't like my questions
5:02 PM - Fire Dog: simulations are not really exact at that level
5:02 PM - euclideon raytracing: not trying to be autistic
5:02 PM - Fire Dog: the processes are too complicated
5:03 PM - euclideon raytracing: what is so special about a live process that it needs to happen in real time
5:03 PM - euclideon raytracing: what if it took an extremely long time to compute something
5:04 PM - euclideon raytracing: but we used tricks
5:03 PM - Fire Dog: you could and it would be more accurrate but there's virtually always apprroximations
5:04 PM - Fire Dog: except in extremely simple cases
5:05 PM - euclideon raytracing: would caching calcuable curves benefit the process if you want it to run faster
5:05 PM - euclideon raytracing: then you assign a curve to a magnification level
5:05 PM - euclideon raytracing: and put them together
5:05 PM - Fire Dog: people already use a sort of similar idea
5:05 PM - Fire Dog: there are all sorts of problems
5:05 PM - Fire Dog: like
5:06 PM - Fire Dog: you can use those curves but yourr algorithmm might not mamp them properly to the actual situation
5:07 PM - euclideon raytracing: what if every spot of the computer that needs the cached curve has that data available to it pysically at all times is that the entire purpose of caching something?
5:07 PM - Fire Dog: it still is problematic
5:08 PM - Fire Dog: because how can you determine if your cahced curve is close to what the real thing should be
5:08 PM - Fire Dog: that's the really hard question
5:08 PM - euclideon raytracing: cubes
5:09 PM - euclideon raytracing: determine what curve to apply to your cube based on the meta data extrapolated from 2d pictures
5:09 PM - euclideon raytracing: does calculating a curve instead of a line need too much space?
5:10 PM - euclideon raytracing: should computations limits paint by the rules of a photo realist or that of picasso
5:11 PM - Fire Dog: i mean how things would work is you would have some cached equation/curve
5:11 PM - Fire Dog: you would have to map that onto what your pictures give
5:12 PM - Fire Dog: which is a very complicated problem
5:12 PM - Fire Dog: that doesn't even work some of the time
5:12 PM - euclideon raytracing: change the curve based on an interpretation of the meta data
5:13 PM - euclideon raytracing: combine the multiple angle pictures in a smart way
5:13 PM - euclideon raytracing: like a character reference sheet
5:14 PM - Fire Dog: again the question is what is that smart way
5:14 PM - Fire Dog: it's not an easy question to answer
5:14 PM - Fire Dog: most methods for doing stuff like that don't have a 100% success rate
5:14 PM - euclideon raytracing: you can make the assumption for something static
5:14 PM - euclideon raytracing: it will stay there
5:15 PM - euclideon raytracing: multiple angles of something static
5:15 PM - euclideon raytracing: you can write assumptions for the curves to follow
5:15 PM - euclideon raytracing: if this flower pot
5:16 PM - euclideon raytracing: has the same width at all angles
5:16 PM - euclideon raytracing: it is circular
5:16 PM - euclideon raytracing: whether or not something is circular is defined by it's shading
5:16 PM - Fire Dog: yeah you could do something like that for basica objects but if you really want high definition it will be extremely difficult
5:16 PM - Fire Dog: there aren't easy rules like that to follow for stuff
5:17 PM - euclideon raytracing: shading comes from your color buffer
5:16 PM - Fire Dog: like if you want to model the bark of a tree or something
5:17 PM - euclideon raytracing: bark follows patterns
5:17 PM - Fire Dog: in the short term it does
5:17 PM - Fire Dog: but what if the tree got hit by lightning
5:17 PM - Fire Dog: or something
5:17 PM - Fire Dog: all of a sudden the pattern is broken
5:19 PM - euclideon raytracing: well idk I'm not thinking about simulating things that are super interactive
5:19 PM - euclideon raytracing: if the game calls for that you can just write it in the story
5:19 PM - Fire Dog: that sounds more plausible then
5:20 PM - Fire Dog: you could predefine some patterns and force your program to follow them to generate the environment
5:21 PM - euclideon raytracing: can you combine polygon computing and raytracing in the same 3d game engine?
5:21 PM - euclideon raytracing: and make them be consistent when you move around it
5:22 PM - Fire Dog: you probably could but idk about how well it would function
5:22 PM - euclideon raytracing: assign a value to hammer units let's say 1 for every hammer unit equals a single raytrace unit
5:23 PM - euclideon raytracing: when you move along them they progress together
5:23 PM - Fire Dog: you could probably do somemthing like that but the raycasting is so expensive commputationally
5:23 PM - euclideon raytracing: why
5:23 PM - Fire Dog: you would have to get a huge benefit out of it for it to be worth it, and it still wouldn't be good on modern hardware
5:23 PM - Fire Dog: raycasting just uses a ton of resources
5:24 PM - euclideon raytracing: how many lasers need powered
5:24 PM - euclideon raytracing: what energy is required
5:25 PM - Fire Dog: do you mean computational raycasting?
5:25 PM - Fire Dog: it just needs to calculate things a lot
5:25 PM - Fire Dog: so it takes foreverr
5:26 PM - euclideon raytracing: computational?
5:26 PM - euclideon raytracing: no like cameras
5:27 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you want to make ultra realistic stop motion animation
5:27 PM - euclideon raytracing: can you do it just by looking at 2d pictures
5:27 PM - euclideon raytracing: from multiple angles
5:27 PM - euclideon raytracing: hi def
5:28 PM - euclideon raytracing: also at the cellular level you can you ask the computer to draw pattern of what a cell looks like close up
5:29 PM - euclideon raytracing: you can ask*
5:29 PM - euclideon raytracing: BUT
5:29 PM - euclideon raytracing: you would need a lot of pictures for the right colors
5:29 PM - euclideon raytracing: so you can compare them all
5:31 PM - Fire Dog: BASICALLY
5:31 PM - Fire Dog: sorry caps
5:32 PM - euclideon raytracing: basically wat
5:34 PM - euclideon raytracing: the ability to amass light speed distance measurements into a large data center like if the government gives you a lot of money
5:34 PM - Fire Dog: i mean you could use 2d pictures like you said to create an environment
5:34 PM - euclideon raytracing: what if it was the United Nations and they sponsored this idea with 5 billion dollars
5:35 PM - euclideon raytracing: instead of just the australian government
5:35 PM - Fire Dog: to measure the distance of what exactly
5:36 PM - euclideon raytracing: anything that's near you and bounces light off itself
5:36 PM - euclideon raytracing: can the human eye evolve to be better?
5:37 PM - euclideon raytracing: do I happen to have the most perfect eyes an intelligent species could ever have?
5:37 PM - euclideon raytracing: what if we made computers that simply used pure visible light as input
5:38 PM - euclideon raytracing: is this possible
5:38 PM - euclideon raytracing: ?
5:38 PM - euclideon raytracing: what meta data is not stored in pictures but can be found in light
5:39 PM - euclideon raytracing: is the only thing maybe material type?
5:39 PM - euclideon raytracing: that's how we know what the contents of space are made of
5:41 PM - euclideon raytracing: if something can pass a turing test with an entirely consistent personality does it become more than an illusion?
5:41 PM - euclideon raytracing: why are robots bad at being self consistent
5:42 PM - euclideon raytracing: with their personalities
5:42 PM - euclideon raytracing: one could say having a self consistent personality is the only thing that separates you from the average human profile
5:44 PM - euclideon raytracing: my questions are probably retarded im sorry
5:44 PM - euclideon raytracing: no one wants to talk about that stuff with me ever
5:46 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you wanted to create a photorealistic painting would you do it by making tiny lines
5:46 PM - euclideon raytracing: as a literal question I'd say no to that
5:47 PM - Fire Dog is now Online.
5:48 PM - euclideon raytracing: caching pictures with different focal lenses but maybe in the same place
5:49 PM - euclideon raytracing: same place in the 3d area
5:49 PM - euclideon raytracing: that gives you more data to use
5:50 PM - euclideon raytracing: I suppose lasers don't have that problem
5:51 PM - euclideon raytracing: what if the key is knowing where the camera is at what time
5:54 PM - euclideon raytracing: if you can tween in flash apply that math to your raytrace model
5:55 PM - euclideon raytracing: you can fake the inbetween who says it has to actually happen
6:28 PM - euclideon raytracing: if the computer can separate the background from the foreground definitively using the length of each laser you probably need a minimum 4 laser picture angles because that is the number of surfaces needed to enclose a 3d space
6:30 PM - euclideon raytracing: I wonder if they're taking something closer to a bunch of laser pictures or a bunch of laser videos

IS PRECACHING A DATA BASE OF CURVES or "TURNS" THAT ACT ON A 2D GRID BUT AT THE SAME TIME CAN MOVE IN 3D SPACE DATA [(extrapolated by taking many laser measurements from at least 4 angles looking inward toward the object like encasing something within a triangular pyramid)] LIKE A CAMERA THE FUTURE OF GRAPHICAL COMPUTING?

QUESTION: DO MORE THAN 4 ANGLES GIVE A BETTER OR MORE ACCURATE 3D MAP?