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  1. one
  2.  
  3.  
  4.  
  5.  
  6. 1 **ROUGH-UNEDITED-UNCERTIFIED DRAFT**
  7.  
  8. 2 **ROUGHT DRAFT, UNEDITED VERSION ** CCP 2025 (r)(2)**
  9.  
  10. 3 ROUGH DRAFT DISCLAIMER
  11.  
  12. 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC NOTES TAKEN IN THIS
  13.  
  14. 5 PROCEEDING ARE BEING TRANSLATED INSTANTANEOUSLY INTO
  15.  
  16. 6 THEIR ENGLISH EQUIVALENT THROUGH AN AUTOMATED PROCESS
  17.  
  18. 7 CALLED REALTIME TRANSLATION. THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN
  19.  
  20. 8 NEITHER EDITED NOR PROOFREAD BY THE COURT REPORTER.
  21.  
  22. 9 THE REALTIME DRAFT IS UNEDITED AND UNCERTIFIED
  23.  
  24. 10 AND MAY CONTAIN UNTRANSLATED STENOGRAPHIC SYMBOLS, AN
  25.  
  26. 11 OCCASIONAL REPORTER'S NOTE, A MISSPELLED PROPER NAME,
  27.  
  28. 12 AND/OR NONSENSICAL WORD COMBINATIONS, DEPENDING UPON
  29.  
  30. 13 THE COMPLEXITY OF THE DEPOSITION AND THE SPEED OF THE
  31.  
  32. 14 QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
  33.  
  34. 15 ALL SUCH ENTRIES WILL BE CORRECTED ON THE
  35.  
  36. 16 FINAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT, WHICH WE WILL DELIVER TO
  37.  
  38. 17 YOU IN ACCORDANCE WITH OUR STANDARD DELIVERY TERMS, OR
  39.  
  40. 18 ON AN EXPEDITED BASIS, SHOULD YOU DESIRE FASTER
  41.  
  42. 19 DELIVERY.
  43.  
  44. 20 DUE TO THE NEED TO CORRECT ENTRIES PRIOR TO
  45.  
  46. 21 CERTIFICATION, THIS ROUGH DRAFT CAN ONLY BE USED FOR
  47.  
  48. 22 THE PURPOSE OF AUGMENTING COUNSEL'S NOTES AND NOT TO
  49.  
  50. 23 USE OR CITE IT IN ANY COURT PROCEEDING OR TO DISTRIBUTE
  51.  
  52. 24 IT TO ANY OTHER PARTIES - CCP 2025 (r)(2).
  53.  
  54. 25
  55. 1
  56.  
  57.  
  58.  
  59.  
  60.  
  61.  
  62. 1 **ROUGH-UNEDITED-UNCERTIFIED DRAFT**
  63.  
  64. 2 MR. POINTER Q. Good morning, sergeant.
  65.  
  66. 3 A Good morning.
  67.  
  68. 4 Q I represent the plaintiffs in this case. Can
  69.  
  70. 5 I get you to state and spell your full name.
  71.  
  72. 6 A Jonathan bell lee J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N, Laos name
  73.  
  74. 7 is BELLUSA and which.
  75.  
  76. 8 Q Okay. I'm here to take your deposition in the
  77.  
  78. 9 matter this is all vis at all versus Oakland Unified
  79.  
  80. 10 School District chief sergeant bat do you understand
  81.  
  82. 11 that?
  83.  
  84. 12 A Yes.
  85.  
  86. 13 Q Okay. Seated to your right is your counsel in
  87.  
  88. 14 this matter I'm sure he's probably already gone ground
  89.  
  90. 15 rules of a deposition I'm going to go over them with
  91.  
  92. 16 you as well as?
  93.  
  94. 17 A Okay.
  95.  
  96. 18 Q Good job want you seat today your left there's
  97.  
  98. 19 a court reporter transcript of everything that's said
  99.  
  100. 20 hoar today denounce that?
  101.  
  102. 21 A Yes.
  103.  
  104. 22 Q Okay. What that means in terms of making sure
  105.  
  106. 23 that where she a clear transcript response need to be
  107.  
  108. 24 verbal. Do you understand that?
  109.  
  110. 25 A Yes.
  111. 2
  112.  
  113.  
  114.  
  115.  
  116.  
  117.  
  118. 1 Q Typically course of conversation nods shakes
  119.  
  120. 2 of the head so forth and reframe clear record of your
  121.  
  122. 3 answers do you understand that?
  123.  
  124. 4 A Yes.
  125.  
  126. 5 Q Like wise if for some reason we ask you a
  127.  
  128. 6 question that you don't understand let me know I will
  129.  
  130. 7 either ask the question again rephrase the question or
  131.  
  132. 8 move on?
  133.  
  134. 9 A Okay.
  135.  
  136. 10 Q This my ohm opportunity to take your
  137.  
  138. 11 deposition here today before trial in this matter if we
  139.  
  140. 12 should go to trial entitled to receive I'm entitle
  141.  
  142. 13 today ask and questions unless your counsel do you
  143.  
  144. 14 understand that?
  145.  
  146. 15 A Yes.
  147.  
  148. 16 Q Like wise if you answer my of any questions
  149.  
  150. 17 assume that you understand my question you understand
  151.  
  152. 18 that?
  153.  
  154. 19 A Yes.
  155.  
  156. 20 Q If you need to take a break for any reason ask
  157.  
  158. 21 that we don't take any breaks while the question is
  159.  
  160. 22 pending?
  161.  
  162. 23 A Okay.
  163.  
  164. 24 Q Okay. I don't want you to I'm not entitled to
  165.  
  166. 25 information that conversations that you had with your
  167. 3
  168.  
  169.  
  170.  
  171.  
  172.  
  173.  
  174. 1 attorney okay Sony of the questions I am not asking for
  175.  
  176. 2 any attorney-client privilege information do you
  177.  
  178. 3 understand that?
  179.  
  180. 4 A Yes.
  181.  
  182. 5 Q I also do not want you to guess or speculate
  183.  
  184. 6 so if you don't know an answer to something just let me
  185.  
  186. 7 know okay?
  187.  
  188. 8 A Okay.
  189.  
  190. 9 Q However, I may ask follow up questions to see
  191.  
  192. 10 if I can jolling your memory see you might have
  193.  
  194. 11 whatever I'm asking you about?
  195.  
  196. 12 A Okay.
  197.  
  198. 13 Q I'm entitle today that recollection how vague
  199.  
  200. 14 or slight it may be do you understand that?
  201.  
  202. 15 A Yes from okay.
  203.  
  204. 16 Q Is there any reason why your deposition can't
  205.  
  206. 17 go forward fod?
  207.  
  208. 18 A No.
  209.  
  210. 19 Q Okay. So currently are you currently employed
  211.  
  212. 20 with Oakland Unified School District?
  213.  
  214. 21 A Yes.
  215.  
  216. 22 Q Watch commander sergeant. Technically they
  217.  
  218. 23 haven't switched, but I was promoted watch commander
  219.  
  220. 24 August 2010?
  221.  
  222. 25 A Okay.
  223. 4
  224.  
  225.  
  226.  
  227.  
  228.  
  229.  
  230. 1 Q And prior to that promotion what was your
  231.  
  232. 2 rank, as sergeant?
  233.  
  234. 3 A Yes.
  235.  
  236. 4 Q Okay. Now, when did you start working for
  237.  
  238. 5 Oakland Unified School District?
  239.  
  240. 6 A September 1999.
  241.  
  242. 7 Q Prior to that other law lumbar?
  243.  
  244. 8 A Yes.
  245.  
  246. 9 Q Oakland city of Oakland police department?
  247.  
  248. 10 A Yes.
  249.  
  250. 11 Q Okay. And for what term of time were you
  251.  
  252. 12 working for the Oakland police department?
  253.  
  254. 13 A February 1994 to may of 1999.
  255.  
  256. 14 Q And what was the reason you left Oakland
  257.  
  258. 15 police and went to stay at Oakland Unified School
  259.  
  260. 16 District?
  261.  
  262. 17 A I was released from probation.
  263.  
  264. 18 Q What does that mean?
  265.  
  266. 19 A Probation for a year and if they feel that you
  267.  
  268. 20 either didn't meet.
  269.  
  270. 21 Q Okay?
  271.  
  272. 22 A You feel you didn't meet their standard or for
  273.  
  274. 23 whatever reason they have a right to release you from
  275.  
  276. 24 probation.
  277.  
  278. 25 Q Did they give you any reason why did they give
  279. 5
  280.  
  281.  
  282.  
  283.  
  284.  
  285.  
  286. 1 you indicate the reason why you were released.
  287.  
  288. 2 A Yes. General conduct.
  289.  
  290. 3 Q And was is that something you disclosed?
  291.  
  292. 4 A Yes.
  293.  
  294. 5 Q Okay. Then did they ask for any reinstated on
  295.  
  296. 6 documentation from you during the course of your
  297.  
  298. 7 employment application with the district?
  299.  
  300. 8 A I don't know if they did.
  301.  
  302. 9 Q Do you recall giving them anything as it
  303.  
  304. 10 relates that particular point release from OPD?
  305.  
  306. 11 ATTORNEY2: You mean like a piece of paper.
  307.  
  308. 12 MR. POINTER: Yes.
  309.  
  310. 13 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
  311.  
  312. 14 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Do you have any other
  313.  
  314. 15 law enforcement experience other than the time you just
  315.  
  316. 16 testified to OPD?
  317.  
  318. 17 A No.
  319.  
  320. 18 Q Okay. Prior to this deposition have you had
  321.  
  322. 19 your deposition taken before?
  323.  
  324. 20 A Yes.
  325.  
  326. 21 Q Okay. Have you been a party to any lawsuits
  327.  
  328. 22 other than this lawsuit that we're here to discuss
  329.  
  330. 23 today?
  331.  
  332. 24 ATTORNEY2: By that does he means have you
  333.  
  334. 25 Seuss something that was the reason your deposition was
  335. 6
  336.  
  337.  
  338.  
  339.  
  340.  
  341.  
  342. 1 being taken.
  343.  
  344. 2 THE WITNESS: No.
  345.  
  346. 3 ATTORNEY2: Okay.
  347.  
  348. 4 THE WITNESS: Can you clarify something are
  349.  
  350. 5 you talking about have I ever been sued recently or.
  351.  
  352. 6 Q Just have you ever been name as a defendant
  353.  
  354. 7 meaning have you ever been sued?
  355.  
  356. 8 A Yes.
  357.  
  358. 9 Q Have you ever been sued relates your duties
  359.  
  360. 10 charge police officer?
  361.  
  362. 11 A Yes.
  363.  
  364. 12 Q How many times?
  365.  
  366. 13 A I'd say three to five times.
  367.  
  368. 14 Q Oakland Unified School District?
  369.  
  370. 15 A Yes.
  371.  
  372. 16 Q How many times have you been sued as relates
  373.  
  374. 17 to your duties since you have been employed by the
  375.  
  376. 18 Oakland Unified School District?
  377.  
  378. 19 A I believe three.
  379.  
  380. 20 Q Okay. Do you recall the name of the person
  381.  
  382. 21 who sued you the last time?
  383.  
  384. 22 A Yes.
  385.  
  386. 23 Q What's the name?
  387.  
  388. 24 A Virgil Walden.
  389.  
  390. 25 Q And was that in state court or federal court?
  391. 7
  392.  
  393.  
  394.  
  395.  
  396.  
  397.  
  398. 1 A No.
  399.  
  400. 2 Q Do you know about the year as when that
  401.  
  402. 3 lawsuit was filed?
  403.  
  404. 4 A 2000.
  405.  
  406. 5 Q And so there were approximately two other
  407.  
  408. 6 times that you were sued so there was approximately two
  409.  
  410. 7 other times other than the accident the lawsuit
  411.  
  412. 8 involving Virgil Walden duties that you were
  413.  
  414. 9 discharging for Oakland Unified School District?
  415.  
  416. 10 A Yes.
  417.  
  418. 11 Q Do you remember the names of those two other
  419.  
  420. 12 lawsuits or -- strike that do you remember the names of
  421.  
  422. 13 the two other plaintiffs in those lawsuits?
  423.  
  424. 14 A Yes.
  425.  
  426. 15 Q Okay. What was the name of one of can you
  427.  
  428. 16 give me the name of one of them?
  429.  
  430. 17 A Sure troy Emanuel.
  431.  
  432. 18 Q Okay. And what's the name of the other?
  433.  
  434. 19 A Jose Cabrera I believe.
  435.  
  436. 20 Q And provide Emanuel and Jose Cabrera those
  437.  
  438. 21 were two different lawsuits?
  439.  
  440. 22 A Correct.
  441.  
  442. 23 Q And was the basis of the allegations charged
  443.  
  444. 24 against you or made against you by Mr. Walden
  445.  
  446. 25 Mr. Cabrera use of force?
  447. 8
  448.  
  449.  
  450.  
  451.  
  452.  
  453.  
  454. 1 A Yes. Which ones.
  455.  
  456. 2 Q Mr. Walden federal or state court?
  457.  
  458. 3 A Correct.
  459.  
  460. 4 Q Do you know whether or not involving
  461.  
  462. 5 Mr. Emanuel state court?
  463.  
  464. 6 A No.
  465.  
  466. 7 Q What about Mr. Cabrera?
  467.  
  468. 8 A I don't know either.
  469.  
  470. 9 Q Do you have estimation of years to when the
  471.  
  472. 10 lawsuit involving Mr. Emanuel was filed?
  473.  
  474. 11 A 2001.
  475.  
  476. 12 Q Okay. And want lawsuit involving Mr. Cabrera?
  477.  
  478. 13 A 2001.
  479.  
  480. 14 Q Did any of those three lawsuits involved
  481.  
  482. 15 allegation use of deadly force?
  483.  
  484. 16 A Yes.
  485.  
  486. 17 Q Which one?
  487.  
  488. 18 A Virgil Walden.
  489.  
  490. 19 Q So fire say the other two were not?
  491.  
  492. 20 A Dre Yes, correct.
  493.  
  494. 21 Q Now the district we are Ryan brown and his
  495.  
  496. 22 death denounce that?
  497.  
  498. 23 A Yes.
  499.  
  500. 24 Q About the time of this incident how old were
  501.  
  502. 25 you?
  503. 9
  504.  
  505.  
  506.  
  507.  
  508.  
  509.  
  510. 1 ATTORNEY2: I'm sorry I didn't here that THE
  511.  
  512. 2 COURT.
  513.  
  514. 3 MR. POINTER: At the time how tar were you at
  515.  
  516. 4 the time of this incident.
  517.  
  518. 5 A Close to 64.
  519.  
  520. 6 Q Okay. I take it your haven't grown or since
  521.  
  522. 7 then?
  523.  
  524. 8 A No.
  525.  
  526. 9 Q About how many time did you weigh at the time
  527.  
  528. 10 of this incident?
  529.  
  530. 11 A I would say 280 regular work out register
  531.  
  532. 12 engine of any sort meaning.
  533.  
  534. 13 Q Did you exercise did you regularly exercise.
  535.  
  536. 14 A Periodically I would say.
  537.  
  538. 15 Q Okay. What type 06 exercise wow periodically
  539.  
  540. 16 do?
  541.  
  542. 17 A Cardio.
  543.  
  544. 18 Q What type of exercise in any type of cardio
  545.  
  546. 19 exercise?
  547.  
  548. 20 A Sit ups treadmill or bicycle.
  549.  
  550. 21 Q About it.
  551.  
  552. 22 Q No weight lifting?
  553.  
  554. 23 A No.
  555.  
  556. 24 Q I'm going ask you questions regarding your
  557.  
  558. 25 trining?
  559. 10
  560.  
  561.  
  562.  
  563.  
  564.  
  565.  
  566. 1 A Okay.
  567.  
  568. 2 Q Prior to OPD did you attend a training
  569.  
  570. 3 academy?
  571.  
  572. 4 A Yes.
  573.  
  574. 5 Q Which academy did you attend?
  575.  
  576. 6 A Oakland police department.
  577.  
  578. 7 Q Okay and you graduated from Oakland police
  579.  
  580. 8 academy I take it?
  581.  
  582. 9 A Yes.
  583.  
  584. 10 Q You were post certified?
  585.  
  586. 11 A Yes.
  587.  
  588. 12 Q Okay. And after the post -- strike that after
  589.  
  590. 13 OPD training academy did you continue to receive
  591.  
  592. 14 training through the course of your law enforcement
  593.  
  594. 15 career?
  595.  
  596. 16 A Yes.
  597.  
  598. 17 Q Did you receive additional training Oakland
  599.  
  600. 18 Unified School District?
  601.  
  602. 19 A Yes.
  603.  
  604. 20 Q Questioning regarding your training do you
  605.  
  606. 21 recall taking a training or being trained during the
  607.  
  608. 22 course that was entitled surrender date deadly
  609.  
  610. 23 assaults?
  611.  
  612. 24 A Yes.
  613.  
  614. 25 Q While you were at OPD. Did you say yes?
  615. 11
  616.  
  617.  
  618.  
  619.  
  620.  
  621.  
  622. 1 A Yes.
  623.  
  624. 2 Q Can you describe what that training consisted
  625.  
  626. 3 of?
  627.  
  628. 4 A Not at this time.
  629.  
  630. 5 Q Did it involved hand to hand combat CPR?
  631.  
  632. 6 A I don't know.
  633.  
  634. 7 Q Okay. Do you recall defensive tactical class
  635.  
  636. 8 OPD training academy?
  637.  
  638. 9 A Yes.
  639.  
  640. 10 Q Okay did you do any other type of similar
  641.  
  642. 11 Oakland Unified School District?
  643.  
  644. 12 A Yes.
  645.  
  646. 13 Q Do you recall the names of those courses?
  647.  
  648. 14 A Defensive tactics.
  649.  
  650. 15 Q So you took a defensive tactics course while
  651.  
  652. 16 you were employed with the Oakland Unified School
  653.  
  654. 17 District?
  655.  
  656. 18 A Yes.
  657.  
  658. 19 Q Do you recall the year?
  659.  
  660. 20 A 2011 I believe.
  661.  
  662. 21 Q And can you describe what at a training
  663.  
  664. 22 consisted of?
  665.  
  666. 23 A I believe it just consisted of striking moves
  667.  
  668. 24 about hand to hand combat things of that nature.
  669.  
  670. 25 Q Okay. Did you receive any training during the
  671. 12
  672.  
  673.  
  674.  
  675.  
  676.  
  677.  
  678. 1 course of your police career as it relates disarming
  679.  
  680. 2 subjects?
  681.  
  682. 3 A Yes.
  683.  
  684. 4 Q What type of training did you receive can you
  685.  
  686. 5 describe it for us?
  687.  
  688. 6 A I was given training how to disarm somebody if
  689.  
  690. 7 flay have a gun to your head and also a gun to your
  691.  
  692. 8 back or shotgun to your head or shotgun to your back.
  693.  
  694. 9 Q What about as relates arm with the knife?
  695.  
  696. 10 A Yes.
  697.  
  698. 11 Q Okay. When did you receive that training?
  699.  
  700. 12 A I can't recall.
  701.  
  702. 13 Q Do you know if it was can you recall Oakland
  703.  
  704. 14 unified or OPD?
  705.  
  706. 15 A Both.
  707.  
  708. 16 Q Okay. So it's fair to say disarm a while you
  709.  
  710. 17 were at police officer at OPD as well when you were a
  711.  
  712. 18 police officer with Oakland unified school district.
  713.  
  714. 19 A Don't recall specifically that training OPD or
  715.  
  716. 20 OUSD or both strike that what I'm trying to what you
  717.  
  718. 21 mean what you just stated are you saying you never
  719.  
  720. 22 recall having such training unsure when you received?
  721.  
  722. 23 A I believe I had training how to deal with
  723.  
  724. 24 people with edged weapons but I cannot recall them
  725.  
  726. 25 teaching me how to disarm somebody at this time with an
  727. 13
  728.  
  729.  
  730.  
  731.  
  732.  
  733.  
  734. 1 edged weapon.
  735.  
  736. 2 Q Okay. But you do remember some training
  737.  
  738. 3 dealing with suspect which you termed edge web?
  739.  
  740. 4 A Yes.
  741.  
  742. 5 Q And edge web would be arm shore is that strew?
  743.  
  744. 6 A Yes.
  745.  
  746. 7 Q Okay. And you remember such training while
  747.  
  748. 8 you were employed with OUSD?
  749.  
  750. 9 A Yes.
  751.  
  752. 10 Q Okay. Now I understand that you also received
  753.  
  754. 11 training in officer involved shooting as it relates
  755.  
  756. 12 being a field supervisor that true?
  757.  
  758. 13 A Yes.
  759.  
  760. 14 Q Do you recall that training in your line what
  761.  
  762. 15 that consisted of, some of it yes.
  763.  
  764. 16 Q What can you recall?
  765.  
  766. 17 A I recall interim effectses outer per rim term
  767.  
  768. 18 effectses medical aid coordinating safers to go to
  769.  
  770. 19 posts coordinating notification efforts coordinating a
  771.  
  772. 20 log to mark down who's on the scene coordinating a
  773.  
  774. 21 media post for a media to go to and any other
  775.  
  776. 22 logistical stuff that happens with that.
  777.  
  778. 23 Q What about evidence preservation?
  779.  
  780. 24 A Yes.
  781.  
  782. 25 Q Okay. What did your training tell you as it
  783. 14
  784.  
  785.  
  786.  
  787.  
  788.  
  789.  
  790. 1 relates evidence preservation when there's a firearm on
  791.  
  792. 2 the scene?
  793.  
  794. 3 A To leave everything as they are if it's safe
  795.  
  796. 4 to do so and mark them accordingly or designate
  797.  
  798. 5 somebody to mark them accordingly usually that's an
  799.  
  800. 6 evidence tech anything's job to do all that what about
  801.  
  802. 7 did you receive any training as it relates to firearm
  803.  
  804. 8 safe on the scene of an incident involved sheeting.
  805.  
  806. 9 A Yes.
  807.  
  808. 10 Q What did that training consist of?
  809.  
  810. 11 A Making sure that the gun is in you know you're
  811.  
  812. 12 number of the it's in a safe position that you do not
  813.  
  814. 13 you're mindful of putting African on the gun they talk
  815.  
  816. 14 to you about holding it a certain way to not put your
  817.  
  818. 15 fingerprints on there about how to safely clear a
  819.  
  820. 16 weapon or to lock a slide back secure the weapon in
  821.  
  822. 17 general.
  823.  
  824. 18 Q And does your training tell you anything as it
  825.  
  826. 19 relates when you're suppose to handle a firearm on the
  827.  
  828. 20 scene versus not handle the fire shooting?
  829.  
  830. 21 A No I don't think so.
  831.  
  832. 22 Q And how are you trained in terms of handle ago
  833.  
  834. 23 firearm so that fingerprints are not left on the
  835.  
  836. 24 firearm?
  837.  
  838. 25 A Usually two hands put your two hands on the
  839. 15
  840.  
  841.  
  842.  
  843.  
  844.  
  845.  
  846. 1 spot where the fingerprints aren't normally taken if
  847.  
  848. 2 it's wood so you can put two hands on hood or use we
  849.  
  850. 3 don't tell yous to do that and you can now they have
  851.  
  852. 4 spots with where you can take lock box in the trunk and
  853.  
  854. 5 keep it there.
  855.  
  856. 6 Q As it relates the firearm you have given
  857.  
  858. 7 previous statements that you recovered or at least saw
  859.  
  860. 8 firearm incident rod any brown correct?
  861.  
  862. 9 A Correct.
  863.  
  864. 10 ATTORNEY2: And I appreciate your question
  865.  
  866. 11 making a distinction between the weapon that's in the
  867.  
  868. 12 side compartment of the carvers the web that sergeant
  869.  
  870. 13 bath had I think there's a big difference but go ahead
  871.  
  872. 14 I understand.
  873.  
  874. 15 MR. POINTER: So the question is you saw a
  875.  
  876. 16 weapon that you associated with during the marriage
  877.  
  878. 17 helium brown during the course of this incident
  879.  
  880. 18 correct.
  881.  
  882. 19 A Yes. Weapon firearm correct.
  883.  
  884. 20 Q All right and you saw in the passenger side
  885.  
  886. 21 door Mr. Brown was seated in is that true?
  887.  
  888. 22 A Yes.
  889.  
  890. 23 Q Okay now did you touch that weapon?
  891.  
  892. 24 A No.
  893.  
  894. 25 Q Did you see anybody touch that weapon during
  895. 16
  896.  
  897.  
  898.  
  899.  
  900.  
  901.  
  902. 1 the course of this incident?
  903.  
  904. 2 A No.
  905.  
  906. 3 Q Did you later leper that either sergeant bat
  907.  
  908. 4 had touched that weapon?
  909.  
  910. 5 A No.
  911.  
  912. 6 Q Okay. Now, it's also true that during the
  913.  
  914. 7 course of your training that you have been trained that
  915.  
  916. 8 if you see a weapon do you agree the dealing with alert
  917.  
  918. 9 your fellow officers that there's a gun on the scene
  919.  
  920. 10 correct?
  921.  
  922. 11 A Correct.
  923.  
  924. 12 Q Okay. And you're to do that what is your
  925.  
  926. 13 training tell you as it relates how you're to let your
  927.  
  928. 14 fellow firearm on the scene?
  929.  
  930. 15 A Basically an officer safety matter so you
  931.  
  932. 16 would just tell someone as loud as you can that there's
  933.  
  934. 17 a gun so you would yell it out gun gun gun or something
  935.  
  936. 18 along those lines.
  937.  
  938. 19 A Yes.
  939.  
  940. 20 Q So is it fair to say that an that you're not
  941.  
  942. 21 trained that if you see a gun on the scene that your to
  943.  
  944. 22 keep it to yourself right?
  945.  
  946. 23 ATTORNEY2: Keep that knowledge to yourself.
  947.  
  948. 24 MR. POINTER: Yes.
  949.  
  950. 25 THE WITNESS: No.
  951. 17
  952.  
  953.  
  954.  
  955.  
  956.  
  957.  
  958. 1 MR. POINTERQ. It's important for offer
  959.  
  960. 2 safety reasons that scene though there's a gun present
  961.  
  962. 3 correct?
  963.  
  964. 4 A Yes.
  965.  
  966. 5 Q Now also true contact dispatch when you're
  967.  
  968. 6 going to make a car stop?
  969.  
  970. 7 A It's not retired but appropriate.
  971.  
  972. 8 Q Okay what do you mean by appropriate?
  973.  
  974. 9 A It's appropriate to put out location to put
  975.  
  976. 10 out the reason for the stop the license plate and the
  977.  
  978. 11 number of occupant so number one they in case something
  979.  
  980. 12 happens information from the car get relayed back from
  981.  
  982. 13 the dispatcher.
  983.  
  984. 14 Q Okay. Taking your officer bat and during the
  985.  
  986. 15 marriage helium brown you yourself and sergeant bat
  987.  
  988. 16 riding in a patrol car?
  989.  
  990. 17 A That's true.
  991.  
  992. 18 Q And that patrol car was unmarked?
  993.  
  994. 19 A Yes.
  995.  
  996. 20 Q Insignias indicating that it was a police car
  997.  
  998. 21 is that true?
  999.  
  1000. 22 A True.
  1001.  
  1002. 23 Q All right side is that correct?
  1003.  
  1004. 24 A That correct.
  1005.  
  1006. 25 Q And two tone car associate meaning white and
  1007. 18
  1008.  
  1009.  
  1010.  
  1011.  
  1012.  
  1013.  
  1014. 1 black or something along those lines?
  1015.  
  1016. 2 A That's correct.
  1017.  
  1018. 3 Q It was all black parole car?
  1019.  
  1020. 4 A Yes.
  1021.  
  1022. 5 Q Did it have lights sitting on the top of the
  1023.  
  1024. 6 car?
  1025.  
  1026. 7 A No.
  1027.  
  1028. 8 Q Before you it did have lights inside
  1029.  
  1030. 9 windshield?
  1031.  
  1032. 10 A Yes.
  1033.  
  1034. 11 Q Spotlight passenger side of course no.
  1035.  
  1036. 12 Q Now, sergeant bat was driving this car is that
  1037.  
  1038. 13 true. Yes.
  1039.  
  1040. 14 Q And you were seated in the right frond
  1041.  
  1042. 15 passenger seat?
  1043.  
  1044. 16 A Yes.
  1045.  
  1046. 17 Q Prior to getting into the car had you and
  1047.  
  1048. 18 scening bat had any conversations related to sergeant
  1049.  
  1050. 19 bat will be the driver -- strike that.
  1051.  
  1052. 20 Prior to get stopping the car had drill
  1053.  
  1054. 21 sergeant bat had any conversations related to how any
  1055.  
  1056. 22 duties or responsibilities would be split between the
  1057.  
  1058. 23 two of out the work you as you drove around?
  1059.  
  1060. 24 A I don't believe so.
  1061.  
  1062. 25 Q And by that I mean it's my understanding that
  1063. 19
  1064.  
  1065.  
  1066.  
  1067.  
  1068.  
  1069.  
  1070. 1 speak for myself officers will decide hay this officer
  1071.  
  1072. 2 is going be the one do all the communicating with
  1073.  
  1074. 3 dispatch meaning the in a long time and the driving
  1075.  
  1076. 4 officer one who will initiate contact with the
  1077.  
  1078. 5 citizens?
  1079.  
  1080. 6 A Are you talking about if we were to
  1081.  
  1082. 7 stop something.
  1083.  
  1084. 8 Q Yes?
  1085.  
  1086. 9 A No we never had a conversation.
  1087.  
  1088. 10 Q Okay. In fact the conversation that you --
  1089.  
  1090. 11 let me ask another way what conversation had you had
  1091.  
  1092. 12 yourself and sergeant bat prior to making contact with
  1093.  
  1094. 13 Mr. Brown that night?
  1095.  
  1096. 14 A I wanted him to show me the area since he was
  1097.  
  1098. 15 more familiar with that Heche and the surrounding
  1099.  
  1100. 16 entrances and exits so I asked if I could jump in the
  1101.  
  1102. 17 car with him have him take me inner perimeter and outer
  1103.  
  1104. 18 perimeter.
  1105.  
  1106. 19 Q So that was your intent with getting in the
  1107.  
  1108. 20 car grounds of walking Miller park?
  1109.  
  1110. 21 A Yes.
  1111.  
  1112. 22 Q Okay. When you is and sergeant bat grounds of
  1113.  
  1114. 23 your essentially walk Miller road is that true?
  1115.  
  1116. 24 A Yes.
  1117.  
  1118. 25 Q Okay. And you're driving down the hill is
  1119. 20
  1120.  
  1121.  
  1122.  
  1123.  
  1124.  
  1125.  
  1126. 1 that correct?
  1127.  
  1128. 2 A Yes.
  1129.  
  1130. 3 Q And is that when you guys came upon this
  1131.  
  1132. 4 Honda?
  1133.  
  1134. 5 A Yes.
  1135.  
  1136. 6 Q Okay and that was the car with Ms. Stew want
  1137.  
  1138. 7 is that true?
  1139.  
  1140. 8 A Yes.
  1141.  
  1142. 9 Q Okay. Now, when you came upon this car had
  1143.  
  1144. 10 there been any discussion or conversation as to say
  1145.  
  1146. 11 between yourself and officer bat making contact with
  1147.  
  1148. 12 the car?
  1149.  
  1150. 13 A I don't believe so.
  1151.  
  1152. 14 Q Okay. So why don't you describe for he how it
  1153.  
  1154. 15 is that you buys pulled over and made contact with this
  1155.  
  1156. 16 car?
  1157.  
  1158. 17 A Sure we were engaged in a conversation
  1159.  
  1160. 18 together his dais when he was a police ranger and as we
  1161.  
  1162. 19 drove down the street I remember looking and seeing a
  1163.  
  1164. 20 Honda park objection no foundation the side of the road
  1165.  
  1166. 21 blinkers were on and I'm not sure if I said look they
  1167.  
  1168. 22 need help or thought in my mind but that is what was
  1169.  
  1170. 23 going someone needed help sergeant bat pulled the car
  1171.  
  1172. 24 behind the Honda and that's what made us stop.
  1173.  
  1174. 25 Q So did you communicate there's a Honda check
  1175. 21
  1176.  
  1177.  
  1178.  
  1179.  
  1180.  
  1181.  
  1182. 1 out what's going on?
  1183.  
  1184. 2 A If any conversation it was about help what
  1185.  
  1186. 3 specific words I use today him but I can't remember at
  1187.  
  1188. 4 this point if I was thinking in my ahead I wonder if
  1189.  
  1190. 5 they need help or if I said it out loud to him but
  1191.  
  1192. 6 that's what was going on in my mind.
  1193.  
  1194. 7 Q What made you they the occupants of the Honda
  1195.  
  1196. 8 may have needed help?
  1197.  
  1198. 9 A Well, there was no one around our dance was
  1199.  
  1200. 10 very close to this location and I was thinking maybe
  1201.  
  1202. 11 this is a parent that dropped off a child broke down
  1203.  
  1204. 12 the side of the road there was nothing there was no
  1205.  
  1206. 13 businesses around no houses around very rural part of
  1207.  
  1208. 14 the road that with the flashers and the way it was I
  1209.  
  1210. 15 thought well, geez I need to stop and help these people
  1211.  
  1212. 16 there's no pay phones or even the cell reaccepting is
  1213.  
  1214. 17 bad up there.
  1215.  
  1216. 18 Q Approaching from behind correct?
  1217.  
  1218. 19 A Yes.
  1219.  
  1220. 20 Q Could you see how many people in the vehicle I
  1221.  
  1222. 21 don't say you approached this car?
  1223.  
  1224. 22 ATTORNEY2: I don't mean to interrupt you.
  1225.  
  1226. 23 This is all you mean after he got out of the car while
  1227.  
  1228. 24 driving up to it.
  1229.  
  1230. 25 MR. POINTERQ. Before you got out the car we
  1231. 22
  1232.  
  1233.  
  1234.  
  1235.  
  1236.  
  1237.  
  1238. 1 haven't got to that point yet but you're driving up to
  1239.  
  1240. 2 the car could you see how many people were in the car?
  1241.  
  1242. 3 A No as I'm driving up to the car no.
  1243.  
  1244. 4 Q Okay. Did you see anybody which you
  1245.  
  1246. 5 interpreted as putting their hand out the window trying
  1247.  
  1248. 6 to flag you down anything along those lines?
  1249.  
  1250. 7 A No.
  1251.  
  1252. 8 Q And prior to getting out of the car did you
  1253.  
  1254. 9 have any reason to believe that the car was stolen?
  1255.  
  1256. 10 A No.
  1257.  
  1258. 11 Q Prior to getting out of your patrol car did
  1259.  
  1260. 12 you have any reason to leave that there was any type of
  1261.  
  1262. 13 crime that was afoot?
  1263.  
  1264. 14 A No.
  1265.  
  1266. 15 Q So sergeant bat pulls the car over correct?
  1267.  
  1268. 16 A Correct.
  1269.  
  1270. 17 Q And do you recall who gets out of the car
  1271.  
  1272. 18 first?
  1273.  
  1274. 19 A I think we both exited about the same time.
  1275.  
  1276. 20 Q Okay. I believe sergeant bat goon east may
  1277.  
  1278. 21 mud approach the car he was in front of you correct?
  1279.  
  1280. 22 A Correct.
  1281.  
  1282. 23 Q Now, at some point in time prior to sergeant
  1283.  
  1284. 24 bat get to go the passenger -- getting up to the
  1285.  
  1286. 25 drive's side window you had made an observation of
  1287. 23
  1288.  
  1289.  
  1290.  
  1291.  
  1292.  
  1293.  
  1294. 1 marijuana?
  1295.  
  1296. 2 A Yes.
  1297.  
  1298. 3 Q You smelled marijuana correct?
  1299.  
  1300. 4 A Yes.
  1301.  
  1302. 5 Q And you let sergeant bat that?
  1303.  
  1304. 6 A Yes.
  1305.  
  1306. 7 Q Smell marijuana words to that effect?
  1307.  
  1308. 8 A Yes.
  1309.  
  1310. 9 Q That's true?
  1311.  
  1312. 10 A Yes from did he respond back no.
  1313.  
  1314. 11 Q How far away was he from you when you told him
  1315.  
  1316. 12 that you smelled marijuana?
  1317.  
  1318. 13 A Approximately seven, 8 feet.
  1319.  
  1320. 14 Q Okay. And did you say it in a voice loud
  1321.  
  1322. 15 enough to be able to here you?
  1323.  
  1324. 16 A Yes.
  1325.  
  1326. 17 Q Okay. And did sergeant bat acknowledge what
  1327.  
  1328. 18 you were saying?
  1329.  
  1330. 19 A No.
  1331.  
  1332. 20 Q Meaning did he look back at you handle signals
  1333.  
  1334. 21 or gesturing what you had said regarding marijuana?
  1335.  
  1336. 22 A No.
  1337.  
  1338. 23 Q And he didn't voice anything saying okay or
  1339.  
  1340. 24 words to that effect acknowledge in your statement
  1341.  
  1342. 25 regarding the marijuana?
  1343. 24
  1344.  
  1345.  
  1346.  
  1347.  
  1348.  
  1349.  
  1350. 1 A No.
  1351.  
  1352. 2 Q Prior to this evening had you worked with
  1353.  
  1354. 3 sergeant bat before meaning been partnered up with him?
  1355.  
  1356. 4 A I believe so.
  1357.  
  1358. 5 Q Down there do you recall how many occasions
  1359.  
  1360. 6 approximately?
  1361.  
  1362. 7 A Very few.
  1363.  
  1364. 8 Q Less than five, more than five?
  1365.  
  1366. 9 A I would say less than five.
  1367.  
  1368. 10 Q Do you recall what type of situations were
  1369.  
  1370. 11 those similar to hear patrol the distance specific
  1371.  
  1372. 12 school function or activity?
  1373.  
  1374. 13 A Yes.
  1375.  
  1376. 14 Q Okay. Were they dancing?
  1377.  
  1378. 15 A Supporting athletic events.
  1379.  
  1380. 16 Q Partnered up with sergeant bat to cover other
  1381.  
  1382. 17 special events?
  1383.  
  1384. 18 A Yes.
  1385.  
  1386. 19 Q Okay. The fact that sergeant bat didn't
  1387.  
  1388. 20 acknowledge what you were saying related to the
  1389.  
  1390. 21 marijuana did they surprise you or did they strike you
  1391.  
  1392. 22 as being odd or anything like that?
  1393.  
  1394. 23 A No.
  1395.  
  1396. 24 Q Why was that?
  1397.  
  1398. 25 A Well, I can't speak for him but if I was him
  1399. 25
  1400.  
  1401.  
  1402.  
  1403.  
  1404.  
  1405.  
  1406. 1 and it was dark and it was situation presented itself
  1407.  
  1408. 2 to where someone need help focus on the car even if
  1409.  
  1410. 3 you're trying to help the person you still have to be
  1411.  
  1412. 4 careful and you still have to take precaution anything
  1413.  
  1414. 5 happen to you so I basically want today tell him weed
  1415.  
  1416. 6 marijuana smell but it didn't strike me as odd that he
  1417.  
  1418. 7 didn't acknowledge me.
  1419.  
  1420. 8 Q Prior to you approaching the vehicle you
  1421.  
  1422. 9 actually turned on your patrol car's lights like
  1423.  
  1424. 10 directed them ton vehicle correct?
  1425.  
  1426. 11 A That's correct.
  1427.  
  1428. 12 Q I mean when I say direct them on the vehicle
  1429.  
  1430. 13 you lit up the spotlight correct?
  1431.  
  1432. 14 A Not the spotlight I turned on the emergency
  1433.  
  1434. 15 lights.
  1435.  
  1436. 16 Q And the emergency room lights are those like
  1437.  
  1438. 17 the wig wag splash flashing light?
  1439.  
  1440. 18 A It controlled four blue and red lights in the
  1441.  
  1442. 19 grill and it controlled a certain red and blue pattern
  1443.  
  1444. 20 adviser of the car.
  1445.  
  1446. 21 Q Occupant know the car they were being detained
  1447.  
  1448. 22 is that true?
  1449.  
  1450. 23 A Yes.
  1451.  
  1452. 24 Q Did you turn on the spotlight any point in
  1453.  
  1454. 25 time during this incident?
  1455. 26
  1456.  
  1457.  
  1458.  
  1459.  
  1460.  
  1461.  
  1462. 1 A No.
  1463.  
  1464. 2 Q Any describe the area as being dark?
  1465.  
  1466. 3 A Yes.
  1467.  
  1468. 4 Q Okay. Was there an respect you didn't turn on
  1469.  
  1470. 5 the spotlight?
  1471.  
  1472. 6 A There was not a spotlight on my side.
  1473.  
  1474. 7 Q Okay. So did it strike you as -- strike that
  1475.  
  1476. 8 that question now you didn't see officer bat turn off
  1477.  
  1478. 9 the spotlight did you?
  1479.  
  1480. 10 A I think I did.
  1481.  
  1482. 11 Q So from your memory officer bat turn on the
  1483.  
  1484. 12 spotlight prior to approaching this Honda?
  1485.  
  1486. 13 A I believe so.
  1487.  
  1488. 14 Q Okay. Now, so sergeant bat is in front of you
  1489.  
  1490. 15 walking down to this Honda correct?
  1491.  
  1492. 16 A Correct.
  1493.  
  1494. 17 Q You turn on the lights.
  1495.  
  1496. 18 Q Your patrol car proceed to the Honda as well
  1497.  
  1498. 19 correct?
  1499.  
  1500. 20 A Yes.
  1501.  
  1502. 21 Q Okay. What was your role as it relates to
  1503.  
  1504. 22 being a cover officer a contact officer?
  1505.  
  1506. 23 A My role was being a cover officer.
  1507.  
  1508. 24 Q What difficulties you see it a cover officer
  1509.  
  1510. 25 have in a police contact such as this?
  1511. 27
  1512.  
  1513.  
  1514.  
  1515.  
  1516.  
  1517.  
  1518. 1 A Well, initially parts isn't watching ace and
  1519.  
  1520. 2 transcribed physician pair of eyes to look at the
  1521.  
  1522. 3 surrounding area to look another any other dangers that
  1523.  
  1524. 4 may occur need be step in basically to kind of stay
  1525.  
  1526. 5 back and kind of watch what's happen --
  1527.  
  1528. 6 Q So it's fair to say you're looking into the
  1529.  
  1530. 7 backseat of the weapons back this officer should be
  1531.  
  1532. 8 aware of is that true.
  1533.  
  1534. 9 A I wasn't that close to get a view of the
  1535.  
  1536. 10 backseat but close enough where I can scan no one in
  1537.  
  1538. 11 the backseat.
  1539.  
  1540. 12 Q Okay how far away were you from the Coor you
  1541.  
  1542. 13 said you weren't close enough to see in the backseat
  1543.  
  1544. 14 where were you?
  1545.  
  1546. 15 ATTORNEY2: I guess my only question is do you
  1547.  
  1548. 16 mean when he first got out of the squad car could be a
  1549.  
  1550. 17 different length.
  1551.  
  1552. 18 MR. POINTER: I'm trying to find out O too.
  1553.  
  1554. 19 ATTORNEY2: No I understand.
  1555.  
  1556. 20 MR. POINTERQ. Okay so let's go back there?
  1557.  
  1558. 21 A Sure.
  1559.  
  1560. 22 Q So you turn ton light?
  1561.  
  1562. 23 A Correct.
  1563.  
  1564. 24 Q Contact with the driver?
  1565.  
  1566. 25 A No.
  1567. 28
  1568.  
  1569.  
  1570.  
  1571.  
  1572.  
  1573.  
  1574. 1 Q Okay so he's still walking up to the driver's
  1575.  
  1576. 2 side window is that strew?
  1577.  
  1578. 3 A If.
  1579.  
  1580. 4 Q And your still patrol car?
  1581.  
  1582. 5 A Yes.
  1583.  
  1584. 6 Q Position of patrol car?
  1585.  
  1586. 7 A Yes.
  1587.  
  1588. 8 Q Front passenger door correct?
  1589.  
  1590. 9 A For Mr. KAPBG.
  1591.  
  1592. 10 Q At some point in time you made it.
  1593.  
  1594. 11 A At some point in time I made it.
  1595.  
  1596. 12 Q So why don't you describe the positions and
  1597.  
  1598. 13 locations that you're in prior after you getting out of
  1599.  
  1600. 14 the patrol car and prior to making contact with the
  1601.  
  1602. 15 passenger?
  1603.  
  1604. 16 A Sure.
  1605.  
  1606. 17 Q Okay. I exited the patrol car the right side
  1607.  
  1608. 18 of the vehicle I walked at an angle so I veer today the
  1609.  
  1610. 19 right and I walked up to where I was approximately I'd
  1611.  
  1612. 20 say ten about ten to 12 feet from the passenger's door
  1613.  
  1614. 21 the right front passenger and the right rear passenger
  1615.  
  1616. 22 door about ten to 12 feet off to the right side and as
  1617.  
  1618. 23 I was so when you were in that position.
  1619.  
  1620. 24 Q So when you were in that position right?
  1621.  
  1622. 25 A Correct.
  1623. 29
  1624.  
  1625.  
  1626.  
  1627.  
  1628.  
  1629.  
  1630. 1 Q And you said about 10 feet or so from I guess
  1631.  
  1632. 2 it would be to the right of the passenger door out
  1633.  
  1634. 3 flight the door that true?
  1635.  
  1636. 4 A Yes, correct.
  1637.  
  1638. 5 Q Okay. And so when you were in that position
  1639.  
  1640. 6 what were you doing of these I was just watching.
  1641.  
  1642. 7 Q Just observing the car and what was going on
  1643.  
  1644. 8 is that true?
  1645.  
  1646. 9 A Correct.
  1647.  
  1648. 10 Q Okay. Did you have a radio on?
  1649.  
  1650. 11 A I did.
  1651.  
  1652. 12 Q Can you describe that radio ?
  1653.  
  1654. 13 A A little transistor radio police radio to
  1655.  
  1656. 14 communicate with dispatch.
  1657.  
  1658. 15 Q Is it hand held?
  1659.  
  1660. 16 A Yes.
  1661.  
  1662. 17 Q A walk I can talk I can looks?
  1663.  
  1664. 18 A Yes.
  1665.  
  1666. 19 Q Okay. And you had your duty belt on?
  1667.  
  1668. 20 A Yes.
  1669.  
  1670. 21 Q What was your duty belt?
  1671.  
  1672. 22 A 2 handcuffs my duty weapon my firearm OC
  1673.  
  1674. 23 pepper spray my two magazines and a magazine pouch two
  1675.  
  1676. 24 magazines of bullets a baton ring a radio holder and a
  1677.  
  1678. 25 radio .
  1679. 30
  1680.  
  1681.  
  1682.  
  1683.  
  1684.  
  1685.  
  1686. 1 Q Did you have OC spray on?
  1687.  
  1688. 2 A Yes.
  1689.  
  1690. 3 Q And how were you dressed?
  1691.  
  1692. 4 A I was in a long sleeve shirt long pants and I
  1693.  
  1694. 5 had motor boots on.
  1695.  
  1696. 6 A Okay.
  1697.  
  1698. 7 Q Can you describe any markings on your or
  1699.  
  1700. 8 patches or badges or your uniform?
  1701.  
  1702. 9 A I have Oakland school police on left shoulder
  1703.  
  1704. 10 I have a badge a police badge on my left chest I have
  1705.  
  1706. 11 two stars symbolizing commander on my lapels I had my
  1707.  
  1708. 12 name with my first initial last name two pens.
  1709.  
  1710. 13 Q When say two pens where were those located?
  1711.  
  1712. 14 A My pens for writing located on my left chest.
  1713.  
  1714. 15 Q Ink pens?
  1715.  
  1716. 16 A Ink pens.
  1717.  
  1718. 17 Q Were you wear ago jacket or windbreaker.
  1719.  
  1720. 18 Q Similarly?
  1721.  
  1722. 19 A I believe blue uniform.
  1723.  
  1724. 20 Q Jacket wind brakier?
  1725.  
  1726. 21 A I think he was wearing a jack should be more
  1727.  
  1728. 22 like wind brakier jacket.
  1729.  
  1730. 23 Q Did that jacket have any type of markings on
  1731.  
  1732. 24 it related to police or anything along those lines?
  1733.  
  1734. 25 A Yes.
  1735. 31
  1736.  
  1737.  
  1738.  
  1739.  
  1740.  
  1741.  
  1742. 1 Q Can you describe it?
  1743.  
  1744. 2 A Sure. It had sergeant stripes arrow shaped
  1745.  
  1746. 3 symbols on each of the arms police patch on the
  1747.  
  1748. 4 shoulder sergeant's badge on the left chest his first
  1749.  
  1750. 5 initial last name on his right chest and I believe
  1751.  
  1752. 6 that's all.
  1753.  
  1754. 7 Q The badge on the left shoulder of the jacket
  1755.  
  1756. 8 was it a back what was on the shoulder?
  1757.  
  1758. 9 A Emblem so Oakland school police.
  1759.  
  1760. 10 Q Do you know what chloroit is?
  1761.  
  1762. 11 A Yes.
  1763.  
  1764. 12 Q What Baylor colors?
  1765.  
  1766. 13 A Blue and gold same as OPD.
  1767.  
  1768. 14 Q Oakland school police?
  1769.  
  1770. 15 A Yes it says Oakland school police.
  1771.  
  1772. 16 Q Okay. Now, we were going back when you were
  1773.  
  1774. 17 going back to where you were describing your location
  1775.  
  1776. 18 or your out to the right and to the rear of the
  1777.  
  1778. 19 passenger side of the car how long were you in that
  1779.  
  1780. 20 location?
  1781.  
  1782. 21 A Can you repeat the question.
  1783.  
  1784. 22 Q Yeah sure you described earlier about how when
  1785.  
  1786. 23 you left from out of your patrol car next location
  1787.  
  1788. 24 arrived stopped in was about ten to 12 feet to the rear
  1789.  
  1790. 25 of the front passenger door of the Honda and ten the
  1791. 32
  1792.  
  1793.  
  1794.  
  1795.  
  1796.  
  1797.  
  1798. 1 12 feet flanging the Honda?
  1799.  
  1800. 2 A Sure.
  1801.  
  1802. 3 Q And so you came to rest or you stopped in that
  1803.  
  1804. 4 position that true?
  1805.  
  1806. 5 A Yes.
  1807.  
  1808. 6 Q How long did you remain in that position until
  1809.  
  1810. 7 you moved again?
  1811.  
  1812. 8 A I'd say probably close to 25 second.
  1813.  
  1814. 9 ATTORNEY4: Admonition whether you advise he's
  1815.  
  1816. 10 not the guess or speculate to give his best estimate
  1817.  
  1818. 11 when we can provide one.
  1819.  
  1820. 12 ATTORNEY2: All that Mr. Edwards is saying is
  1821.  
  1822. 13 true already said this you can give a best estimate as
  1823.  
  1824. 14 long as area where you're getting again he just wanted
  1825.  
  1826. 15 Hong you were standing there before you moved forward.
  1827.  
  1828. 16 THE WITNESS: Oh, I thought the question was
  1829.  
  1830. 17 from the time I exited the car to the where I stopped.
  1831.  
  1832. 18 ATTORNEY2: Okay.
  1833.  
  1834. 19 MR. POINTERQ. Least just go back more
  1835.  
  1836. 20 confusing than illuminating the situation so you were
  1837.  
  1838. 21 gout out of the patrol car right?
  1839.  
  1840. 22 A Correct.
  1841.  
  1842. 23 Q Position which we described previously right?
  1843.  
  1844. 24 A Yes.
  1845.  
  1846. 25 Q Which is where your kind of flanging the car
  1847. 33
  1848.  
  1849.  
  1850.  
  1851.  
  1852.  
  1853.  
  1854. 1 right?
  1855.  
  1856. 2 A Yes.
  1857.  
  1858. 3 Q How much time pass between you opening the car
  1859.  
  1860. 4 door and move to go that position?
  1861.  
  1862. 5 A Probably 20 close to 25 seconds.
  1863.  
  1864. 6 Q Okay. And when you move today that position
  1865.  
  1866. 7 you were there for a period of time before you moved
  1867.  
  1868. 8 again?
  1869.  
  1870. 9 A Strike that I'm getting confuse.
  1871.  
  1872. 10 ATTORNEY2: Just explain I think Mr. Point he
  1873.  
  1874. 11 were get a timeline.
  1875.  
  1876. 12 A Walking up to the car probably took me from
  1877.  
  1878. 13 leaving up to walking up to where I flanked and stopped
  1879.  
  1880. 14 probably took about ten seconds.
  1881.  
  1882. 15 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. And you so after that
  1883.  
  1884. 16 ten -- so you got to at a position where you're
  1885.  
  1886. 17 flanking the car?
  1887.  
  1888. 18 A Yes.
  1889.  
  1890. 19 Q Stood there for a moment?
  1891.  
  1892. 20 A Yes.
  1893.  
  1894. 21 Q How long were you there in that position?
  1895.  
  1896. 22 ATTORNEY2: How long did you stand there?
  1897.  
  1898. 23 A Okay so I probably stood there took me about
  1899.  
  1900. 24 ten seconds I probably to do there close to 20 seconds.
  1901.  
  1902. 25 MR. POINTERQ. Okay and during that 20
  1903. 34
  1904.  
  1905.  
  1906.  
  1907.  
  1908.  
  1909.  
  1910. 1 seconds observations of the vehicle and the people
  1911.  
  1912. 2 within it is that true?
  1913.  
  1914. 3 A That's correct.
  1915.  
  1916. 4 Q Okay. During that 20 seconds while you're
  1917.  
  1918. 5 standing there in this position what is sergeant bat
  1919.  
  1920. 6 doing?
  1921.  
  1922. 7 A He is communicating with the --
  1923.  
  1924. 8 Q Can you hear what he's saying?
  1925.  
  1926. 9 A No.
  1927.  
  1928. 10 Q Okay. You just know that he's saying from
  1929.  
  1930. 11 your perception can't here what it is is that true?
  1931.  
  1932. 12 A Correct.
  1933.  
  1934. 13 Q Can you here what the driver is saying back, I
  1935.  
  1936. 14 cannot.
  1937.  
  1938. 15 Q Okay. While you're standing there for this 20
  1939.  
  1940. 16 seconds or so did you see the driver side window move
  1941.  
  1942. 17 in any way?
  1943.  
  1944. 18 A No.
  1945.  
  1946. 19 Q Okay. Did you see the peak side window move
  1947.  
  1948. 20 any way?
  1949.  
  1950. 21 A No.
  1951.  
  1952. 22 Q While you're standing there for these 20
  1953.  
  1954. 23 seconds did you see the driver side door open?
  1955.  
  1956. 24 A No.
  1957.  
  1958. 25 Q While you're standing there for these 20
  1959. 35
  1960.  
  1961.  
  1962.  
  1963.  
  1964.  
  1965.  
  1966. 1 seconds did you observe officer bat with his flashlight
  1967.  
  1968. 2 in his hand?
  1969.  
  1970. 3 A Yes.
  1971.  
  1972. 4 Q Was his flashlight on?
  1973.  
  1974. 5 A Yes.
  1975.  
  1976. 6 Q After those 20 seconds had passed you left
  1977.  
  1978. 7 from the position where your out flanking the car
  1979.  
  1980. 8 correct?
  1981.  
  1982. 9 A Correct.
  1983.  
  1984. 10 Q What prompted you to move?
  1985.  
  1986. 11 A I left that I need today make my presence
  1987.  
  1988. 12 known.
  1989.  
  1990. 13 Q Okay why you had it you feel that way?
  1991.  
  1992. 14 A Because I observed the passenger moving around
  1993.  
  1994. 15 which was inconsistent to what a normal person would do
  1995.  
  1996. 16 if they were cooperating or if they were up
  1997.  
  1998. 17 to something or there was a lot of red flags that I was
  1999.  
  2000. 18 paying attention to as I was standing there.
  2001.  
  2002. 19 Q So let's go through what red flags that you
  2003.  
  2004. 20 saw proceed prompted you to move?
  2005.  
  2006. 21 A It appear today sergeant bat asked the drive a
  2007.  
  2008. 22 question it appear today me that she would look over
  2009.  
  2010. 23 the passenger and I don't know what was being said but
  2011.  
  2012. 24 she appeared to turn and focus back on sergeant bat and
  2013.  
  2014. 25 then it appeared that the next question that was asked
  2015. 36
  2016.  
  2017.  
  2018.  
  2019.  
  2020.  
  2021.  
  2022. 1 she did the same thing that was one red flag second red
  2023.  
  2024. 2 flag was that the passenger seem to follow sergeant bat
  2025.  
  2026. 3 to the driver's door and it seemed odd because it
  2027.  
  2028. 4 seemed to me that it was that passenger was very
  2029.  
  2030. 5 focused on it's movements and then I saw in the third
  2031.  
  2032. 6 red flag I saw the passenger right front passenger's
  2033.  
  2034. 7 shoulders dip as if his arms were going to the floor
  2035.  
  2036. 8 board or going to the side something to where he was
  2037.  
  2038. 9 moving around and I just felt kind of uncomfortable at
  2039.  
  2040. 10 the time make myself known.
  2041.  
  2042. 11 Q Prior to seen as you testify passenger's right
  2043.  
  2044. 12 front shoulder dip had you seen his hands?
  2045.  
  2046. 13 A No.
  2047.  
  2048. 14 Q So is it fair to say until you saw the right
  2049.  
  2050. 15 front shoulder dip you didn't know what his hands were
  2051.  
  2052. 16 doing is that true?
  2053.  
  2054. 17 A I didn't know correct.
  2055.  
  2056. 18 Q And when you were making the observations that
  2057.  
  2058. 19 you just testified to where the driver awe peer today
  2059.  
  2060. 20 look twice at the passenger you couldn't here what
  2061.  
  2062. 21 officer -- sergeant bat was asking her at that point in
  2063.  
  2064. 22 time correct?
  2065.  
  2066. 23 A Correct.
  2067.  
  2068. 24 Q And you coolant here what they're conversation
  2069.  
  2070. 25 meaning driver and sergeant bat sent of correct?
  2071. 37
  2072.  
  2073.  
  2074.  
  2075.  
  2076.  
  2077.  
  2078. 1 A Correct.
  2079.  
  2080. 2 Q And did it appear that when the driver was
  2081.  
  2082. 3 looking at the passenger that she was speak to go the
  2083.  
  2084. 4 passenger?
  2085.  
  2086. 5 A It appeared to me that she was speaking to him
  2087.  
  2088. 6 I want to had one more red looking at the observe one
  2089.  
  2090. 7 of the marijuana that was another red flag the smell.
  2091.  
  2092. 8 Q Speaking of which it's true that you once
  2093.  
  2094. 9 again tried to -- strike that second time that you
  2095.  
  2096. 10 smelled marijuana is that correct?
  2097.  
  2098. 11 A As I was walking up as I was flanking I said
  2099.  
  2100. 12 it a second time.
  2101.  
  2102. 13 Q Once initially getting out of the car?
  2103.  
  2104. 14 A Correct.
  2105.  
  2106. 15 Q Second time as you were making a flank
  2107.  
  2108. 16 position?
  2109.  
  2110. 17 A Correct.
  2111.  
  2112. 18 MR. POINTER: Off the record please.
  2113.  
  2114. 19 (Recess taken from 11:02 a.m. to 11:13
  2115.  
  2116. 20 a.m.)
  2117.  
  2118. 21 MR. POINTERQ. So officer sergeant bell lieu
  2119.  
  2120. 22 is a you said that you turned on the lights stone car
  2121.  
  2122. 23 in order to indicate puppying of the Honda they were
  2123.  
  2124. 24 being detained?
  2125.  
  2126. 25 A Yes.
  2127. 38
  2128.  
  2129.  
  2130.  
  2131.  
  2132.  
  2133.  
  2134. 1 Q What was your position outside the car can you
  2135.  
  2136. 2 describe?
  2137.  
  2138. 3 ATTORNEY2: When you turn the light on how do
  2139.  
  2140. 4 you turn it on.
  2141.  
  2142. 5 THE WITNESS: Oh, I kind of lent in the car
  2143.  
  2144. 6 kind of kneeled in and turned it on.
  2145.  
  2146. 7 Q Okay so you were standing outside the car when
  2147.  
  2148. 8 you turned on the lights correct?
  2149.  
  2150. 9 A I was half way going in the car when I turned
  2151.  
  2152. 10 on the lights.
  2153.  
  2154. 11 Q So you feet were outside of the car leaned
  2155.  
  2156. 12 into the car is that fair?
  2157.  
  2158. 13 A Right.
  2159.  
  2160. 14 Q Okay. And prior to turning objection no
  2161.  
  2162. 15 foundation the lights smelled the marijuana is that
  2163.  
  2164. 16 true?
  2165.  
  2166. 17 A Correct.
  2167.  
  2168. 18 Q Okay. And is that why you turned on the
  2169.  
  2170. 19 lights because you smelled marijuana?
  2171.  
  2172. 20 A Yes.
  2173.  
  2174. 21 Q Any other reason?
  2175.  
  2176. 22 A No.
  2177.  
  2178. 23 Q Okay. Prior to this incident had you served
  2179.  
  2180. 24 as sergeant bats immediate supervisor?
  2181.  
  2182. 25 A Yes.
  2183. 39
  2184.  
  2185.  
  2186.  
  2187.  
  2188.  
  2189.  
  2190. 1 Q Okay. Do you know how many times
  2191.  
  2192. 2 approximately?
  2193.  
  2194. 3 A I'd say for a period of a few years.
  2195.  
  2196. 4 Q Where you had been his immediate supervisor?
  2197.  
  2198. 5 A Yes.
  2199.  
  2200. 6 Q Okay. And what did I see that mean to you
  2201.  
  2202. 7 immediate supervisor?
  2203.  
  2204. 8 A Someone that you would report to.
  2205.  
  2206. 9 Q Okay.
  2207.  
  2208. 10 Q And as his immediate supervisor would be
  2209.  
  2210. 11 responsible for reviewing his police reports, yes.
  2211.  
  2212. 12 Q And approving?
  2213.  
  2214. 13 A Yes.
  2215.  
  2216. 14 Q Prior to this incident had you been assign
  2217.  
  2218. 15 today any Oakland unified school district campuses?
  2219.  
  2220. 16 A No.
  2221.  
  2222. 17 Q So where was your low day ago that you
  2223.  
  2224. 18 regularly worked?
  2225.  
  2226. 19 A I was city wide I was right below chief sarp
  2227.  
  2228. 20 in a.
  2229.  
  2230. 21 Q City wide meaning you responded patrolling
  2231.  
  2232. 22 different campus?
  2233.  
  2234. 23 A I was no longer overseeing parole patrol
  2235.  
  2236. 24 options.
  2237.  
  2238. 25 Q Okay. And that was serving as a watch
  2239. 40
  2240.  
  2241.  
  2242.  
  2243.  
  2244.  
  2245.  
  2246. 1 commander?
  2247.  
  2248. 2 A Yes.
  2249.  
  2250. 3 Q As watch commander were you also responsible
  2251.  
  2252. 4 for taking respondents of uses of force?
  2253.  
  2254. 5 A Yes.
  2255.  
  2256. 6 Q As watch commander did you have any
  2257.  
  2258. 7 responsibility as it relates to directing the
  2259.  
  2260. 8 investigation of the use of force?
  2261.  
  2262. 9 ATTORNEY4: Objection that question is vague
  2263.  
  2264. 10 and ambiguous.
  2265.  
  2266. 11 THE WITNESS: I'd have to say sometimes.
  2267.  
  2268. 12 Q Okay. Meaning that if force was used by an
  2269.  
  2270. 13 officer that you were -- strike that. Meaning if force
  2271.  
  2272. 14 was use during the cows of their duties as Oakland
  2273.  
  2274. 15 unified police officer you would be responsible for
  2275.  
  2276. 16 following up and directing the investigation into
  2277.  
  2278. 17 whether or not that force was within policy or not?
  2279.  
  2280. 18 A I would have to say no.
  2281.  
  2282. 19 Q Okay. So what was your role in if I as it
  2283.  
  2284. 20 relates to investigating or up on use of force?
  2285.  
  2286. 21 A I role to inform chief say on the patio in a
  2287.  
  2288. 22 with regard to the incident.
  2289.  
  2290. 23 Q Where would you git relates informing chief
  2291.  
  2292. 24 say on the patio in a?
  2293.  
  2294. 25 A Either supervisor or sergeants or officers if
  2295. 41
  2296.  
  2297.  
  2298.  
  2299.  
  2300.  
  2301.  
  2302. 1 sergeants were absent had to cover be their director
  2303.  
  2304. 2 supervisor.
  2305.  
  2306. 3 A Okay.
  2307.  
  2308. 4 Q So is it fair to say that tip cap situation
  2309.  
  2310. 5 you were not a patrol officer's director supervisor
  2311.  
  2312. 6 sergeant between yourself and the patrol officers that
  2313.  
  2314. 7 true?
  2315.  
  2316. 8 A That's correct.
  2317.  
  2318. 9 Q Okay and so the structure would then be that
  2319.  
  2320. 10 the supervisor the sergeant who's over the patrol
  2321.  
  2322. 11 officer who would be directorially responsible for kind
  2323.  
  2324. 12 of directing those investigations and report to you is
  2325.  
  2326. 13 that true?
  2327.  
  2328. 14 ATTORNEY2: I'm not sure if that's what he
  2329.  
  2330. 15 said.
  2331.  
  2332. 16 Q Let's find out?
  2333.  
  2334. 17 ATTORNEY2: I think what he said might learn
  2335.  
  2336. 18 about it from a sergeant that rowd say on the patio in
  2337.  
  2338. 19 a.
  2339.  
  2340. 20 Q Is a and a?
  2341.  
  2342. 21 A Can you police just ask.
  2343.  
  2344. 22 Q I'm trying to figure out how it work?
  2345.  
  2346. 23 A I know it's.
  2347.  
  2348. 24 Q I got you we have all day?
  2349.  
  2350. 25 A I know.
  2351. 42
  2352.  
  2353.  
  2354.  
  2355.  
  2356.  
  2357.  
  2358. 1 ATTORNEY2: No we have seven hours.
  2359.  
  2360. 2 MR. POINTER: That's all day.
  2361.  
  2362. 3 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
  2363.  
  2364. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. So you're the watch
  2365.  
  2366. 5 commander right?
  2367.  
  2368. 6 A Correct.
  2369.  
  2370. 7 Q In between yourself and the patrol officers
  2371.  
  2372. 8 sergeant that's correct?
  2373.  
  2374. 9 A That's correct.
  2375.  
  2376. 10 Q What was your responsibility if any that you
  2377.  
  2378. 11 would have involved in the reported use of force by a
  2379.  
  2380. 12 patrol?
  2381.  
  2382. 13 A To report that to chief say on the patio in a.
  2383.  
  2384. 14 Q What information were you responsible for
  2385.  
  2386. 15 report to go chief say on the patio in a?
  2387.  
  2388. 16 A What level of force was used by what officer
  2389.  
  2390. 17 and what would he want to do about it.
  2391.  
  2392. 18 Q Okay. And what responsibility of duties did
  2393.  
  2394. 19 you have as it relates to gathering that information?
  2395.  
  2396. 20 A If it was approved, then I would assign a
  2397.  
  2398. 21 sergeant to do a division level investigation and they
  2399.  
  2400. 22 would either conduct a division level investigation or
  2401.  
  2402. 23 if it was not approved I would make sure that there was
  2403.  
  2404. 24 a letter of discussion that went along with the
  2405.  
  2406. 25 sergeant and that particular officer.
  2407. 43
  2408.  
  2409.  
  2410.  
  2411.  
  2412.  
  2413.  
  2414. 1 Q What's a letter of discussion?
  2415.  
  2416. 2 A A letter of discussion is basically saying
  2417.  
  2418. 3 documenting the incident and then offering some
  2419.  
  2420. 4 directive training or just basically document the
  2421.  
  2422. 5 incident on a supervisory level.
  2423.  
  2424. 6 Q And the information that you would communicate
  2425.  
  2426. 7 chief say on the patio in a report of use of force were
  2427.  
  2428. 8 you also required to put that in produce some type of
  2429.  
  2430. 9 report that we want to the chief?
  2431.  
  2432. 10 A No.
  2433.  
  2434. 11 Q Okay. So you didn't have a duty to put your
  2435.  
  2436. 12 to document your role in any use of force investigation
  2437.  
  2438. 13 is that true?
  2439.  
  2440. 14 A Let me clarify that I'm not sure if it says at
  2441.  
  2442. 15 this point in time what it says in the general orders
  2443.  
  2444. 16 about my role if doing that but I was told by chief
  2445.  
  2446. 17 say on the patio in a to verbally tell him incidents
  2447.  
  2448. 18 and he would make up a decision whether to gait or it
  2449.  
  2450. 19 not.
  2451.  
  2452. 20 Q Okay and that's what you're describing prior
  2453.  
  2454. 21 to the incident involving Mr. Brown is that true,
  2455.  
  2456. 22 that's true well before and after.
  2457.  
  2458. 23 Q Unless I say other wise I'm interested in
  2459.  
  2460. 24 state of affairs at or about of this incident?
  2461.  
  2462. 25 A Okay.
  2463. 44
  2464.  
  2465.  
  2466.  
  2467.  
  2468.  
  2469.  
  2470. 1 Q Not afterwards?
  2471.  
  2472. 2 A Okay.
  2473.  
  2474. 3 Q Unless I ask you?
  2475.  
  2476. 4 A Okay.
  2477.  
  2478. 5 Q Thank you. Now, during the course of the
  2479.  
  2480. 6 times where you had Brunei partnered or working with
  2481.  
  2482. 7 sergeant bat had you heard him use any racial epithets
  2483.  
  2484. 8 at the times towards anyone no differently.
  2485.  
  2486. 9 Q As it relates to your deposition today have
  2487.  
  2488. 10 you reviewed anything?
  2489.  
  2490. 11 A Yes.
  2491.  
  2492. 12 Q In preparation for your deposition here today
  2493.  
  2494. 13 have you reviewed anything?
  2495.  
  2496. 14 A Yes.
  2497.  
  2498. 15 Q Okay. What. My OPD interview.
  2499.  
  2500. 16 Q And did you the longer it read a summary what
  2501.  
  2502. 17 did you do?
  2503.  
  2504. 18 A I bereave I listened to it and I read over it.
  2505.  
  2506. 19 Q And when did you do this?
  2507.  
  2508. 20 A I would say within the last two weeks.
  2509.  
  2510. 21 Q Now your deposition had parole officially been
  2511.  
  2512. 22 scheduled for other times than today prior to today did
  2513.  
  2514. 23 you do anything other time deposition had been
  2515.  
  2516. 24 scheduled?
  2517.  
  2518. 25 A Yes.
  2519. 45
  2520.  
  2521.  
  2522.  
  2523.  
  2524.  
  2525.  
  2526. 1 Q Okay. What had you done?
  2527.  
  2528. 2 A I just read other and listened to my OPD
  2529.  
  2530. 3 statement.
  2531.  
  2532. 4 Q Have you reviewed any other police reports
  2533.  
  2534. 5 related to this incident?
  2535.  
  2536. 6 A No.
  2537.  
  2538. 7 Q Have you listened to any other you
  2539.  
  2540. 8 have something else you want to add?
  2541.  
  2542. 9 A Well, no can you just clarify are you talking
  2543.  
  2544. 10 about the speck time tashed deposition.
  2545.  
  2546. 11 Q Yeah I'm just whatever you were doing to
  2547.  
  2548. 12 prepare for the deposition?
  2549.  
  2550. 13 A Okay that's correct then.
  2551.  
  2552. 14 Q So trying to find out what, if anything, you
  2553.  
  2554. 15 looked at in preparation for you deposition?
  2555.  
  2556. 16 A Okay.
  2557.  
  2558. 17 Q So right now it's it sound like some other
  2559.  
  2560. 18 time where you thought your deposition was scheduled
  2561.  
  2562. 19 you have reviewed your statement that you gave to OPD
  2563.  
  2564. 20 correct?
  2565.  
  2566. 21 A Correct.
  2567.  
  2568. 22 Q And that consisted of listen to go the
  2569.  
  2570. 23 statement and reading it is that true?
  2571.  
  2572. 24 A That's true.
  2573.  
  2574. 25 Q Okay and so the question is at any other time
  2575. 46
  2576.  
  2577.  
  2578.  
  2579.  
  2580.  
  2581.  
  2582. 1 have you looked at or reviewed something else to
  2583.  
  2584. 2 prepare for this deposition for deposition related to
  2585.  
  2586. 3 this case?
  2587.  
  2588. 4 A No.
  2589.  
  2590. 5 Q At any point in time have you listened to
  2591.  
  2592. 6 sergeant bat's statement?
  2593.  
  2594. 7 A No have have you talked to sergeant bat
  2595.  
  2596. 8 related to this incident.
  2597.  
  2598. 9 ATTORNEY4: Objection that attorney-client.
  2599.  
  2600. 10 ATTORNEY2: Well, that's a good point because
  2601.  
  2602. 11 there was a period of time when sergeant bat and
  2603.  
  2604. 12 sergeant bell lieu is a were represented by Mr. Edward
  2605.  
  2606. 13 HAR do you want reinstated on ton's office exclusive of
  2607.  
  2608. 14 that is no yeah.
  2609.  
  2610. 15 ATTORNEY2: I exclude I have of that sergeant
  2611.  
  2612. 16 bat abdomen-of-about the incident other the incident in
  2613.  
  2614. 17 rip to the lawsuit I suspect that night I don't know if
  2615.  
  2616. 18 what's that your meant.
  2617.  
  2618. 19 MR. POINTER: Growths into that.
  2619.  
  2620. 20 ATTORNEY3: Hype even while they were
  2621.  
  2622. 21 represented koum in the presence of counsel I don't see
  2623.  
  2624. 22 how that conversation would be pro-teched by the
  2625.  
  2626. 23 attorney-client.
  2627.  
  2628. 24 MR. POINTER: It's not.
  2629.  
  2630. 25 ATTORNEY2: That's no what I'm saying.
  2631. 47
  2632.  
  2633.  
  2634.  
  2635.  
  2636.  
  2637.  
  2638. 1 ATTORNEY3: During the time they were
  2639.  
  2640. 2 represented.
  2641.  
  2642. 3 ATTORNEY2: Go ahead.
  2643.  
  2644. 4 MR. POINTER: Let's do it this way.
  2645.  
  2646. 5 ATTORNEY2: Okay.
  2647.  
  2648. 6 MR. POINTERQ. So what I want to know is
  2649.  
  2650. 7 after the shooting took place you had conversations
  2651.  
  2652. 8 with sergeant bat what took place?
  2653.  
  2654. 9 A Yes.
  2655.  
  2656. 10 Q And this is on the scene of the accident,
  2657.  
  2658. 11 correct?
  2659.  
  2660. 12 A On the scene.
  2661.  
  2662. 13 Q Yes?
  2663.  
  2664. 14 A No.
  2665.  
  2666. 15 Q Okay. So you're tell me in a after the
  2667.  
  2668. 16 shooting took place did you have you had no
  2669.  
  2670. 17 conversations with sergeant bat what had taken place?
  2671.  
  2672. 18 A After the shooting.
  2673.  
  2674. 19 Q Yes while on the scene?
  2675.  
  2676. 20 A While on the seen no.
  2677.  
  2678. 21 Q Ed did is sergeant bat ever say to you mention
  2679.  
  2680. 22 to you while you were on the scene that he saw a gun?
  2681.  
  2682. 23 A No.
  2683.  
  2684. 24 Q Sergeant bat never said anything to you while
  2685.  
  2686. 25 you were on the scene?
  2687. 48
  2688.  
  2689.  
  2690.  
  2691.  
  2692.  
  2693.  
  2694. 1 A That's true.
  2695.  
  2696. 2 Q Now, after leaving the scene of the incident
  2697.  
  2698. 3 you were taken to OPD?
  2699.  
  2700. 4 A Yes.
  2701.  
  2702. 5 Q Where you were given a statement?
  2703.  
  2704. 6 A Yes.
  2705.  
  2706. 7 Q Review reparation for you deposition today?
  2707.  
  2708. 8 A Yes.
  2709.  
  2710. 9 Q Now, prior to leaving the scene and arriving
  2711.  
  2712. 10 at OPD who did you talk to about the incident?
  2713.  
  2714. 11 ATTORNEY2: You mean out at the scene?
  2715.  
  2716. 12 MR. POINTER: Out on the scene or on the way
  2717.  
  2718. 13 to OPD.
  2719.  
  2720. 14 ATTORNEY2: Okay.
  2721.  
  2722. 15 THE WITNESS: I didn't go into the incident
  2723.  
  2724. 16 with anyone I did notify chief say on the patio in a
  2725.  
  2726. 17 that a shooting took place and that the officers that
  2727.  
  2728. 18 were from the dance all had to come down to the scene
  2729.  
  2730. 19 and we had no one at the dance.
  2731.  
  2732. 20 Q And where were you another when you place this
  2733.  
  2734. 21 call to chief say on the patio in a?
  2735.  
  2736. 22 A Probably let's say 20 feet from the police
  2737.  
  2738. 23 car.
  2739.  
  2740. 24 Q From your patrol car?
  2741.  
  2742. 25 A Yeah.
  2743. 49
  2744.  
  2745.  
  2746.  
  2747.  
  2748.  
  2749.  
  2750. 1 Q Okay.
  2751.  
  2752. 2 A Kind of a little bit about where the area that
  2753.  
  2754. 3 yeah probably 20 feet from my police car from my door.
  2755.  
  2756. 4 Q And about how much time had pass from the
  2757.  
  2758. 5 shooting to when you place this car to chief say on the
  2759.  
  2760. 6 patio in a?
  2761.  
  2762. 7 A I don't recall.
  2763.  
  2764. 8 Q Was it more than 15 minutes?
  2765.  
  2766. 9 A I think so.
  2767.  
  2768. 10 Q Do you think it was more than 30 minutes?
  2769.  
  2770. 11 A I don't know.
  2771.  
  2772. 12 Q Is it fair to say that you think it was more
  2773.  
  2774. 13 than 20 minute from the time of the shooting?
  2775.  
  2776. 14 A If I had to gave rough estimate I'd say puppy
  2777.  
  2778. 15 20 minutes.
  2779.  
  2780. 16 Q So this phone call that you place to chief
  2781.  
  2782. 17 say on the patio in a 15 to 20 minutes after the
  2783.  
  2784. 18 shooting had taken place is that correct?
  2785.  
  2786. 19 A Correct.
  2787.  
  2788. 20 Q How did you what did you use to contact him
  2789.  
  2790. 21 radio him use cell phone what did you use to catting
  2791.  
  2792. 22 him?
  2793.  
  2794. 23 A I think I went to sergeant bat knocked on his
  2795.  
  2796. 24 window do you have your cell phone I dip have any
  2797.  
  2798. 25 phones on my at the time and.
  2799. 50
  2800.  
  2801.  
  2802.  
  2803.  
  2804.  
  2805.  
  2806. 1 ATTORNEY2: He just wants to know who's phone
  2807.  
  2808. 2 you use.
  2809.  
  2810. 3 A Oh, sergeant bat.
  2811.  
  2812. 4 MR. POINTERQ. At that point in time patrol
  2813.  
  2814. 5 car?
  2815.  
  2816. 6 A Yes.
  2817.  
  2818. 7 Q Who's patrol car?
  2819.  
  2820. 8 A I don't know which one.
  2821.  
  2822. 9 Q But it wasn't the patrol car you drove to the
  2823.  
  2824. 10 scene in correct?
  2825.  
  2826. 11 A I don't believe so.
  2827.  
  2828. 12 Q Okay. So you went over to sergeant bat knock
  2829.  
  2830. 13 on the window his cell taupe right.
  2831.  
  2832. 14 A Yes.
  2833.  
  2834. 15 Q Okay. He gave it to you?
  2835.  
  2836. 16 A Yes.
  2837.  
  2838. 17 Q Was he on the phone when you asked for it?
  2839.  
  2840. 18 A No.
  2841.  
  2842. 19 Q Cell phone prior to you asking him between the
  2843.  
  2844. 20 shot shooting and when you asked?
  2845.  
  2846. 21 A No.
  2847.  
  2848. 22 Q Okay. How long was your conversation chief
  2849.  
  2850. 23 say on the patio in a?
  2851.  
  2852. 24 A If I had to estimate I'd say 20 seconds.
  2853.  
  2854. 25 Q And testified that you gave him information
  2855. 51
  2856.  
  2857.  
  2858.  
  2859.  
  2860.  
  2861.  
  2862. 1 told him about what had taken place correct?
  2863.  
  2864. 2 A I just told him that there was a shooting that
  2865.  
  2866. 3 bar had gotten into he asked me is the suspect alive
  2867.  
  2868. 4 and I said I don't know and I toweled him I couldn't
  2869.  
  2870. 5 talk about anything he seem to respect that didn't ask
  2871.  
  2872. 6 any questions emphasize no one at this dance because
  2873.  
  2874. 7 everybody is here he said he would take care of it.
  2875.  
  2876. 8 Q Did chief say on the patio in a make any
  2877.  
  2878. 9 statements?
  2879.  
  2880. 10 A No.
  2881.  
  2882. 11 Q Did chief say on the patio in a give you any
  2883.  
  2884. 12 direction orders or commands?
  2885.  
  2886. 13 A No.
  2887.  
  2888. 14 Q Was that the only time you talked to chief
  2889.  
  2890. 15 say on the patio in a prior to you arriving at OPD and
  2891.  
  2892. 16 giving your statement?
  2893.  
  2894. 17 A Yes. Wait prior to giving my statement.
  2895.  
  2896. 18 Q Yes?
  2897.  
  2898. 19 A No.
  2899.  
  2900. 20 Q Okay so you spoke to chief say on the patio in
  2901.  
  2902. 21 a conversation again?
  2903.  
  2904. 22 A Yes.
  2905.  
  2906. 23 Q When did you speak to him again?
  2907.  
  2908. 24 A At the second floor of the police department.
  2909.  
  2910. 25 Q Okay and this was prior to giving your
  2911. 52
  2912.  
  2913.  
  2914.  
  2915.  
  2916.  
  2917.  
  2918. 1 statement?
  2919.  
  2920. 2 A Yes.
  2921.  
  2922. 3 Q Person or also by phone?
  2923.  
  2924. 4 A In person.
  2925.  
  2926. 5 Q And who else was present when you spoke to the
  2927.  
  2928. 6 chief?
  2929.  
  2930. 7 A The superintendent Tony chief.
  2931.  
  2932. 8 Q Of Oakland unified school district?
  2933.  
  2934. 9 A Yes.
  2935.  
  2936. 10 Q You said second floor of OPD?
  2937.  
  2938. 11 A It was I think it was yeah it was a second
  2939.  
  2940. 12 floor.
  2941.  
  2942. 13 Q Okay. And what did that conversation consist
  2943.  
  2944. 14 of?
  2945.  
  2946. 15 A Superintendent wanted to know what happened.
  2947.  
  2948. 16 A And so he Tony Smith asked you what had taken
  2949.  
  2950. 17 place.
  2951.  
  2952. 18 A Yes.
  2953.  
  2954. 19 Q And chief say on the patio in a was present
  2955.  
  2956. 20 when he was asking you these questions?
  2957.  
  2958. 21 A Yes.
  2959.  
  2960. 22 Q Was anyone else present?
  2961.  
  2962. 23 A Yes.
  2963.  
  2964. 24 Q Who else?
  2965.  
  2966. 25 A Jack Lin minor.
  2967. 53
  2968.  
  2969.  
  2970.  
  2971.  
  2972.  
  2973.  
  2974. 1 Q And did you respond to the Tony Smith
  2975.  
  2976. 2 question?
  2977.  
  2978. 3 A Yes.
  2979.  
  2980. 4 Q All right. And how that conversation went if
  2981.  
  2982. 5 you will?
  2983.  
  2984. 6 ATTORNEY4: Objection.
  2985.  
  2986. 7 ATTORNEY2: Well, I have a question Miss Minor
  2987.  
  2988. 8 I believe lawyer for the school district seems to me
  2989.  
  2990. 9 this discussion could be cloaked with the
  2991.  
  2992. 10 attorney-client.
  2993.  
  2994. 11 ATTORNEY4: Yeah chief counsel for the school
  2995.  
  2996. 12 district.
  2997.  
  2998. 13 MR. POINTER: Tony Smith is not.
  2999.  
  3000. 14 ATTORNEY2: Let me do this appreciate your
  3001.  
  3002. 15 question let me talk with sergeant belieu is a make
  3003.  
  3004. 16 sure issue of the attorney-client privilege as they
  3005.  
  3006. 17 think come right back go ahead take a quick break.
  3007.  
  3008. 18 MR. POINTER: Okay you know that's your
  3009.  
  3010. 19 privilege to assert or not.
  3011.  
  3012. 20 ATTORNEY2: Well.
  3013.  
  3014. 21 MR. POINTER: Thank you.
  3015.  
  3016. 22 ATTORNEY2: Whatever okay we'll be right back.
  3017.  
  3018. 23 (Off the Record.)
  3019.  
  3020. 24 ATTORNEY2: Back on the record if we can.
  3021.  
  3022. 25 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  3023. 54
  3024.  
  3025.  
  3026.  
  3027.  
  3028.  
  3029.  
  3030. 1 ATTORNEY2: Mr. Bell lieu is a had a
  3031.  
  3032. 2 conversation in the presence of superintendent Smith
  3033.  
  3034. 3 apparently when the attorney was not present so with
  3035.  
  3036. 4 that understanding Mr. Bell lieu is a ask you go ahead
  3037.  
  3038. 5 and answer it.
  3039.  
  3040. 6 MR. POINTERQ. The question was pepping.
  3041.  
  3042. 7 MR. POINTERQ. What conversations did you
  3043.  
  3044. 8 have with chief say on the patio in a and Tony Smith
  3045.  
  3046. 9 being present at Oakland police department prior to you
  3047.  
  3048. 10 giving your statement to OPD regarding this incident?
  3049.  
  3050. 11 ATTORNEY2: Again outside the presence of a
  3051.  
  3052. 12 lawyer go ahead.
  3053.  
  3054. 13 THE WITNESS: Okay just so you.
  3055.  
  3056. 14 ATTORNEY4: Just excuse me conversation that
  3057.  
  3058. 15 sergeant bell lieu is a outside the present of dick's
  3059.  
  3060. 16 counsel.
  3061.  
  3062. 17 ATTORNEY2: Yes.
  3063.  
  3064. 18 ATTORNEY4: All right.
  3065.  
  3066. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't remember the district
  3067.  
  3068. 20 counsel Baton Rouge here for this.
  3069.  
  3070. 21 MR. POINTERQ. Okay.
  3071.  
  3072. 22 A Let me say end could be term effects felt
  3073.  
  3074. 23 normal they were both my supervisors I didn't think
  3075.  
  3076. 24 anything of it but the superintendent was asking me
  3077.  
  3078. 25 what had happened and I just give him a very brief
  3079. 55
  3080.  
  3081.  
  3082.  
  3083.  
  3084.  
  3085.  
  3086. 1 spiel as you will about what had happened very short
  3087.  
  3088. 2 and then there was a time when that's it.
  3089.  
  3090. 3 Q Okay. So when you say is a very short spiel
  3091.  
  3092. 4 how long did you take to recount the events of this
  3093.  
  3094. 5 night?
  3095.  
  3096. 6 A How long to tell him what happened.
  3097.  
  3098. 7 Q Yes?
  3099.  
  3100. 8 A Probably a mat of it be to 15 seconds.
  3101.  
  3102. 9 Q Okay. And what did let's start with
  3103.  
  3104. 10 superintendent. What did he say in response to what
  3105.  
  3106. 11 you told him?
  3107.  
  3108. 12 A He just reassured me glad that I was okay and
  3109.  
  3110. 13 if I needed anything that you know they would be there
  3111.  
  3112. 14 for me and he did say that told chief say on the patio
  3113.  
  3114. 15 in a that she should start the paper workmen injury
  3115.  
  3116. 16 because of what happened.
  3117.  
  3118. 17 Q Make sure we're clear so you told in response
  3119.  
  3120. 18 to the questions that you were getting from subpoena
  3121.  
  3122. 19 Smith when he asked you what had taken place you
  3123.  
  3124. 20 responded by telling him what had happened correct?
  3125.  
  3126. 21 A A very short general.
  3127.  
  3128. 22 Q Okay.
  3129.  
  3130. 23 A Yes.
  3131.  
  3132. 24 Q When you say short general what did you say?
  3133.  
  3134. 25 A I just said we thought these people needed
  3135. 56
  3136.  
  3137.  
  3138.  
  3139.  
  3140.  
  3141.  
  3142. 1 help we contacted him the guy started stabbing me with
  3143.  
  3144. 2 the screwdriver bat shot him there was a gun in the car
  3145.  
  3146. 3 that was it.
  3147.  
  3148. 4 Q Okay. And in response that the superintendent
  3149.  
  3150. 5 said something along the lines of telling chief say on
  3151.  
  3152. 6 the patio in a they need to get your worker comp papers
  3153.  
  3154. 7 for you?
  3155.  
  3156. 8 A Yes.
  3157.  
  3158. 9 Q Did the superintendent say anything else?
  3159.  
  3160. 10 A Yes.
  3161.  
  3162. 11 Q What else did he say?
  3163.  
  3164. 12 A There was a time when he left the radiological
  3165.  
  3166. 13 and he came back and then he said specifically John
  3167.  
  3168. 14 tell me where the gun was tell me everything you can
  3169.  
  3170. 15 remember about the gun and what it looked like.
  3171.  
  3172. 16 Q Okay. And when the superintendent left the
  3173.  
  3174. 17 room how long was the superintendent away from the
  3175.  
  3176. 18 asking you those questions?
  3177.  
  3178. 19 A I really cannot recall.
  3179.  
  3180. 20 Q 5 minutes ten mens do you have any estimate?
  3181.  
  3182. 21 ATTORNEY3: I'm sorry confuse Tony Smith or
  3183.  
  3184. 22 chief say on the patio in a L.
  3185.  
  3186. 23 A They both did.
  3187.  
  3188. 24 MR. POINTERQ. For asking that after you gave
  3189.  
  3190. 25 brief spiel words chief say on the patio in a left the
  3191. 57
  3192.  
  3193.  
  3194.  
  3195.  
  3196.  
  3197.  
  3198. 1 radiological?
  3199.  
  3200. 2 A Yes.
  3201.  
  3202. 3 Q Okay. And later came back?
  3203.  
  3204. 4 A Yes.
  3205.  
  3206. 5 Q How much time were they gone from the room
  3207.  
  3208. 6 before coming back?
  3209.  
  3210. 7 A Well, you're asking me for an something like
  3211.  
  3212. 8 that.
  3213.  
  3214. 9 Q Yes?
  3215.  
  3216. 10 A Because I have to reiterate that during that
  3217.  
  3218. 11 time I just wanted to go home to my family it was a
  3219.  
  3220. 12 very traumatic time I one point keeping track of
  3221.  
  3222. 13 anything and I was.
  3223.  
  3224. 14 Q You were emotional is that fair to say?
  3225.  
  3226. 15 A Yes.
  3227.  
  3228. 16 Q And you wanted to go home?
  3229.  
  3230. 17 A That's all I wanted to do but I'd say five
  3231.  
  3232. 18 minutes.
  3233.  
  3234. 19 Q Okay. So in this approximate?
  3235.  
  3236. 20 A Approximate.
  3237.  
  3238. 21 Q So after you had given your short spiel both
  3239.  
  3240. 22 chief say on the patio in a and Tony Smith police chief
  3241.  
  3242. 23 the room approximately five minutes.
  3243.  
  3244. 24 Q Were you left alone during that particular
  3245.  
  3246. 25 point in time?
  3247. 58
  3248.  
  3249.  
  3250.  
  3251.  
  3252.  
  3253.  
  3254. 1 A Yes.
  3255.  
  3256. 2 Q Okay. And the bilateral wrist they did they
  3257.  
  3258. 3 both return to the room in five minutes?
  3259.  
  3260. 4 A With jack Lin minor.
  3261.  
  3262. 5 Q So they returned back for attorney to the
  3263.  
  3264. 6 school district, yes.
  3265.  
  3266. 7 Q And during that point in time when they
  3267.  
  3268. 8 returned they were more questions asked of you
  3269.  
  3270. 9 regarding where the gun was at is that true?
  3271.  
  3272. 10 A No more questions about the gun that was it.
  3273.  
  3274. 11 Q Okay so has let me make sure we have this
  3275.  
  3276. 12 clear when were you asked about where the gun was at?
  3277.  
  3278. 13 A The second visit.
  3279.  
  3280. 14 Q Okay. And that was a visit with just Tony
  3281.  
  3282. 15 Smith and the chief being present?
  3283.  
  3284. 16 A I believe so.
  3285.  
  3286. 17 Q Okay. And were those the first words they
  3287.  
  3288. 18 mention questions regarding the location of the gun?
  3289.  
  3290. 19 A Yes.
  3291.  
  3292. 20 Q Okay. To the best of you ability can you just
  3293.  
  3294. 21 tell us what how that conversation went?
  3295.  
  3296. 22 ATTORNEY2: Well, I don't mean to ago with you
  3297.  
  3298. 23 a little bit vague what did you do he say in response
  3299.  
  3300. 24 to the inquire.
  3301.  
  3302. 25 MR. POINTER: Just tell me what happened
  3303. 59
  3304.  
  3305.  
  3306.  
  3307.  
  3308.  
  3309.  
  3310. 1 exactly during the course of this second conversation
  3311.  
  3312. 2 irk the second conversation.
  3313.  
  3314. 3 MR. POINTER: Yes.
  3315.  
  3316. 4 ATTORNEY4: With jack Lin minor present.
  3317.  
  3318. 5 MR. POINTER: No.
  3319.  
  3320. 6 A Well, I was standing there staring at the
  3321.  
  3322. 7 window and I didn't see him come in but they room that
  3323.  
  3324. 8 had a back room to it so I was in the very back so they
  3325.  
  3326. 9 came around the corner and superintendent John do you
  3327.  
  3328. 10 know where the done was do you know what it look like
  3329.  
  3330. 11 can you remember anything else ability it and that was.
  3331.  
  3332. 12 And what did you say.
  3333.  
  3334. 13 Q Response to those questions?
  3335.  
  3336. 14 A Revolver white handle black grips and that was
  3337.  
  3338. 15 it.
  3339.  
  3340. 16 Q Now, and chief say on the patio in a relating
  3341.  
  3342. 17 this information?
  3343.  
  3344. 18 A Yes.
  3345.  
  3346. 19 Q Did he say anything in the course of this
  3347.  
  3348. 20 second conversation?
  3349.  
  3350. 21 A No.
  3351.  
  3352. 22 Q And this was prior to you being interviewed by
  3353.  
  3354. 23 OPD.
  3355.  
  3356. 24 Q This is the time see the letter quest term
  3357.  
  3358. 25 effected did he recollect?
  3359. 60
  3360.  
  3361.  
  3362.  
  3363.  
  3364.  
  3365.  
  3366. 1 A During that time again I wasn't thinking of
  3367.  
  3368. 2 anything and like I said before and I wanted to make
  3369.  
  3370. 3 sure you know that is that I the encounter seemed very
  3371.  
  3372. 4 normal this is my supervisor and I one thinking of
  3373.  
  3374. 5 anything else.
  3375.  
  3376. 6 Q Right. Essentially when they came into the
  3377.  
  3378. 7 room to ask you these questions the chief of police and
  3379.  
  3380. 8 the summit of the school district correct?
  3381.  
  3382. 9 A Correct.
  3383.  
  3384. 10 Q You're responding questions thinking they
  3385.  
  3386. 11 wouldn't do outside of the policy lawn was going today
  3387.  
  3388. 12 correct?
  3389.  
  3390. 13 A No.
  3391.  
  3392. 14 Q Is that correct?
  3393.  
  3394. 15 A That's correct.
  3395.  
  3396. 16 Q So you listened to their question and
  3397.  
  3398. 17 responded?
  3399.  
  3400. 18 A That's correct.
  3401.  
  3402. 19 Q All right. Now, you mentioned that the school
  3403.  
  3404. 20 district's counsel at some point came into the room?
  3405.  
  3406. 21 A Yes.
  3407.  
  3408. 22 Q Were there any said to you prior to her coming
  3409.  
  3410. 23 in that room?
  3411.  
  3412. 24 A Just like I told you about the conversation
  3413.  
  3414. 25 about the gun and then you know hay what happened are
  3415. 61
  3416.  
  3417.  
  3418.  
  3419.  
  3420.  
  3421.  
  3422. 1 you okay just that those two conversations.
  3423.  
  3424. 2 Q Okay. Were you told anything as it relates
  3425.  
  3426. 3 what sergeant bat had said at any point in time?
  3427.  
  3428. 4 A No.
  3429.  
  3430. 5 Q So those two conversations as well when Jackie
  3431.  
  3432. 6 long came into the room?
  3433.  
  3434. 7 ATTORNEY3: Who.
  3435.  
  3436. 8 MR. POINTER: Jackie long.
  3437.  
  3438. 9 ATTORNEY3: Minor.
  3439.  
  3440. 10 MR. POINTER: Miner jackly long is a football
  3441.  
  3442. 11 player thank you.
  3443.  
  3444. 12 ATTORNEY3: I was sleeping over here.
  3445.  
  3446. 13 MR. POINTERQ. So when you had the two
  3447.  
  3448. 14 conversations with chief say on the patio in a as well
  3449.  
  3450. 15 Tony Smith you had not been requested by OPD yet
  3451.  
  3452. 16 correct?
  3453.  
  3454. 17 A Correct.
  3455.  
  3456. 18 Q All right. When you had the tax second
  3457.  
  3458. 19 conversations that you had with chief say on the patio
  3459.  
  3460. 20 in a and Tony Smith Jackie minor then came into the
  3461.  
  3462. 21 room is that correct?
  3463.  
  3464. 22 A That's correct.
  3465.  
  3466. 23 Q Conversations were had during that point in
  3467.  
  3468. 24 time?
  3469.  
  3470. 25 A Yeah but I guess glue during that time.
  3471. 62
  3472.  
  3473.  
  3474.  
  3475.  
  3476.  
  3477.  
  3478. 1 Q Okay.
  3479.  
  3480. 2 ATTORNEY3: Yes, I do. Good objection.
  3481.  
  3482. 3 A Oh, I'm sorry I didn't.
  3483.  
  3484. 4 ATTORNEY2: You've been doing this too long.
  3485.  
  3486. 5 MR. POINTERQ. Were there any further
  3487.  
  3488. 6 conversations between outwards and anyone else before
  3489.  
  3490. 7 you were interviewed by OPD?
  3491.  
  3492. 8 A No.
  3493.  
  3494. 9 Q Okay. Now, going back to the incident, so
  3495.  
  3496. 10 taking you back in the point in time when you were in
  3497.  
  3498. 11 the flank position and you saw what you said were three
  3499.  
  3500. 12 flags that were three red flags?
  3501.  
  3502. 13 A 4.
  3503.  
  3504. 14 Q 4 red flags I'm sorry four red flags that had
  3505.  
  3506. 15 raised your suspicion is that true, that's correct.
  3507.  
  3508. 16 Q Okay. And you decide today move out of a
  3509.  
  3510. 17 flank position closer to the passenger door is that
  3511.  
  3512. 18 true?
  3513.  
  3514. 19 A Not closer to make contact though it wasn't
  3515.  
  3516. 20 just to get a better look reveal myself.
  3517.  
  3518. 21 Q Okay. So you left the flank position --
  3519.  
  3520. 22 A Yes.
  3521.  
  3522. 23 Q And you walked over to the directorially you
  3523.  
  3524. 24 walked O over directorially to the passenger door true?
  3525.  
  3526. 25 A True.
  3527. 63
  3528.  
  3529.  
  3530.  
  3531.  
  3532.  
  3533.  
  3534. 1 Q When you got to the passenger door what
  3535.  
  3536. 2 happened next?
  3537.  
  3538. 3 A I opened up the passenger door.
  3539.  
  3540. 4 Q Did you announce yourself before you opened
  3541.  
  3542. 5 the puppying door?
  3543.  
  3544. 6 A Before no.
  3545.  
  3546. 7 Q Prior to you opening the passenger door?
  3547.  
  3548. 8 A No.
  3549.  
  3550. 9 Q Okay. Prior to you opening the passenger door
  3551.  
  3552. 10 had you seen the driver with any papers in her hand?
  3553.  
  3554. 11 A No.
  3555.  
  3556. 12 Q Prior to you opening the passenger door did
  3557.  
  3558. 13 you see the passenger with any papers in his hand?
  3559.  
  3560. 14 A No.
  3561.  
  3562. 15 Q Prior to you opening belieu is a with any
  3563.  
  3564. 16 papers in his hand?
  3565.  
  3566. 17 ATTORNEY3: He's sergeant bell lieu is a.
  3567.  
  3568. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Sergeant bat any papers in his
  3569.  
  3570. 19 hand?
  3571.  
  3572. 20 A No.
  3573.  
  3574. 21 Q Now, so you opened the puppying door and what
  3575.  
  3576. 22 happened next?
  3577.  
  3578. 23 A I squatted down and kind of like a catchers
  3579.  
  3580. 24 position I saw brown towards me but his concentration
  3581.  
  3582. 25 he didn't look right at me he looked up in the sky
  3583. 64
  3584.  
  3585.  
  3586.  
  3587.  
  3588.  
  3589.  
  3590. 1 somehow but I spoke with him I could tell that he was
  3591.  
  3592. 2 sweating and perspiring I could tell that his demeanor
  3593.  
  3594. 3 was very tense and it's because of what I observed
  3595.  
  3596. 4 about his eyes it was seem focus very focused person
  3597.  
  3598. 5 and I remember trying to break the ice with him and I
  3599.  
  3600. 6 said what are you guys doing here are you guys part of
  3601.  
  3602. 7 this dance I was I kind of laughed a little bit I could
  3603.  
  3604. 8 tell how serious basically implying I don't care if you
  3605.  
  3606. 9 guys are spoking weed what are you going to break the
  3607.  
  3608. 10 edge not like it's a where himny ha fault it was AOUR's
  3609.  
  3610. 11 body.
  3611.  
  3612. 12 Q We know it's at the jet state?
  3613.  
  3614. 13 A I know probably.
  3615.  
  3616. 14 Q So when you open the door at or about that
  3617.  
  3618. 15 time did you order the passenger at that car?
  3619.  
  3620. 16 A No.
  3621.  
  3622. 17 Q When you opened the door did you notice if the
  3623.  
  3624. 18 passenger had anything in his hands?
  3625.  
  3626. 19 A No.
  3627.  
  3628. 20 Q Prior to you opening the door did you see the
  3629.  
  3630. 21 passenger make any move that you interrupted as going
  3631.  
  3632. 22 into the come parking lot that's on the side of the
  3633.  
  3634. 23 door?
  3635.  
  3636. 24 A Are you talking about the magazine
  3637.  
  3638. 25 compartment.
  3639. 65
  3640.  
  3641.  
  3642.  
  3643.  
  3644.  
  3645.  
  3646. 1 Q Yes?
  3647.  
  3648. 2 A He was making movements and could imply to me
  3649.  
  3650. 3 that he was going in that correction yes.
  3651.  
  3652. 4 Q So you saw him making you saw the passenger
  3653.  
  3654. 5 making movements towards the map compartment of the
  3655.  
  3656. 6 passenger door?
  3657.  
  3658. 7 A Both right and left arms going down like this
  3659.  
  3660. 8 or if he was putting something prop up the best way to
  3661.  
  3662. 9 describe it he was very fidgety.
  3663.  
  3664. 10 Q But you couldn't see his hand?
  3665.  
  3666. 11 A Correct.
  3667.  
  3668. 12 Q Best of where you shoulders and upper body
  3669.  
  3670. 13 moving around is that true?
  3671.  
  3672. 14 A Correct.
  3673.  
  3674. 15 Q But you couldn't see hands were going is that
  3675.  
  3676. 16 true?
  3677.  
  3678. 17 A For Mr. KAPBG that's correct.
  3679.  
  3680. 18 Q Okay. So when you opened the passenger door
  3681.  
  3682. 19 and you began having this exchange with him where you
  3683.  
  3684. 20 were saying what are you guys doing part of this dance?
  3685.  
  3686. 21 A Yes.
  3687.  
  3688. 22 Q What were his response?
  3689.  
  3690. 23 A He say handcuff he said something to the
  3691.  
  3692. 24 effect of I don't know what you're talking about
  3693.  
  3694. 25 jumbled and jargon you have I don't know or something
  3695. 66
  3696.  
  3697.  
  3698.  
  3699.  
  3700.  
  3701.  
  3702. 1 like that.
  3703.  
  3704. 2 Q When you opened the door and you're having
  3705.  
  3706. 3 this exchange with Mr. Brown where was your body.
  3707.  
  3708. 4 Q Regular to the door in the car and the opening
  3709.  
  3710. 5 of the compartment of the passenger compartment of the
  3711.  
  3712. 6 car do you understand what I mean?
  3713.  
  3714. 7 ATTORNEY2: I think I understand where you're
  3715.  
  3716. 8 going are you asking where he's position in rip to the
  3717.  
  3718. 9 open door if TROELGS Mr. Brown were you looking at him
  3719.  
  3720. 10 off the side or something like that.
  3721.  
  3722. 11 Q No what I'm asking 83 open the door?
  3723.  
  3724. 12 A Correct.
  3725.  
  3726. 13 Q How far did you?
  3727.  
  3728. 14 A All the way.
  3729.  
  3730. 15 Q Okay so the door is fully opened correct?
  3731.  
  3732. 16 A Correct.
  3733.  
  3734. 17 Q Okay. And Mr. Brown is he still sitting in
  3735.  
  3736. 18 the car?
  3737.  
  3738. 19 A Yes.
  3739.  
  3740. 20 Q Okay. Where were you in relation to the door
  3741.  
  3742. 21 and the opening the door opening that's part of the car
  3743.  
  3744. 22 compartment?
  3745.  
  3746. 23 A Between the door and him.
  3747.  
  3748. 24 Q Okay. And at this point in time when you were
  3749.  
  3750. 25 in the catchers stands?
  3751. 67
  3752.  
  3753.  
  3754.  
  3755.  
  3756.  
  3757.  
  3758. 1 A Yes.
  3759.  
  3760. 2 Q And that's when you're having this
  3761.  
  3762. 3 conversation with him?
  3763.  
  3764. 4 A Yes.
  3765.  
  3766. 5 Q He's not looking at you looking is it above
  3767.  
  3768. 6 you?
  3769.  
  3770. 7 A Yes.
  3771.  
  3772. 8 Q Okay. And you see him sweating right?
  3773.  
  3774. 9 A Correct.
  3775.  
  3776. 10 Q At that point in time when you're having this
  3777.  
  3778. 11 conversation cue see his hand?
  3779.  
  3780. 12 A Yes.
  3781.  
  3782. 13 Q Okay what was he doing, if anything?
  3783.  
  3784. 14 A They were on his lap.
  3785.  
  3786. 15 Q Okay were they holding anything?
  3787.  
  3788. 16 A No.
  3789.  
  3790. 17 Q Okay. And so did you ask him to step out of
  3791.  
  3792. 18 the car when you're having this conversation with him?
  3793.  
  3794. 19 A Not at that time.
  3795.  
  3796. 20 Q Did you here sergeant bat verbal exchange with
  3797.  
  3798. 21 the drive at this point in time?
  3799.  
  3800. 22 A I don't recall if he was.
  3801.  
  3802. 23 Q Okay. Do you know if the car was on when you
  3803.  
  3804. 24 were having this exchange?
  3805.  
  3806. 25 A I believe it was off.
  3807. 68
  3808.  
  3809.  
  3810.  
  3811.  
  3812.  
  3813.  
  3814. 1 Q Okay. So what happened next?
  3815.  
  3816. 2 A I was in the middle of speaking with him and
  3817.  
  3818. 3 having some dialogue I scanned the vehicle and I could
  3819.  
  3820. 4 see that there was no i got all anything in the con sol
  3821.  
  3822. 5 or had been punched I noticed that the steering --
  3823.  
  3824. 6 stereo was ripped out wiring protruding stereo on the
  3825.  
  3826. 7 floor screwdriver on the floor and what I mean right
  3827.  
  3828. 8 front right floor board or.
  3829.  
  3830. 9 Q Passenger side?
  3831.  
  3832. 10 ATTORNEY2: Passenger.
  3833.  
  3834. 11 THE WITNESS: Passenger floor.
  3835.  
  3836. 12 MR. POINTERQ. When you say floor the part
  3837.  
  3838. 13 where his feet?
  3839.  
  3840. 14 A Yes.
  3841.  
  3842. 15 Q A person sitting in the chair would rest their
  3843.  
  3844. 16 feet?
  3845.  
  3846. 17 A Yes.
  3847.  
  3848. 18 Q Okay.
  3849.  
  3850. 19 A So that's what e d light I observed when I was
  3851.  
  3852. 20 talking to him.
  3853.  
  3854. 21 Q Can you describe it?
  3855.  
  3856. 22 A Not at this time I can't recall what it looked
  3857.  
  3858. 23 like.
  3859.  
  3860. 24 Q Is that the same screwdriver that you later
  3861.  
  3862. 25 saw him try to inyou want certificate into the
  3863. 69
  3864.  
  3865.  
  3866.  
  3867.  
  3868.  
  3869.  
  3870. 1 ignition?
  3871.  
  3872. 2 A I don't believe so.
  3873.  
  3874. 3 Q So it was a different screwdriver?
  3875.  
  3876. 4 A Yeah.
  3877.  
  3878. 5 Q The screwdriver passenger floor board is that
  3879.  
  3880. 6 the same screwdriver that you claim he attacked you
  3881.  
  3882. 7 with?
  3883.  
  3884. 8 A Yes.
  3885.  
  3886. 9 Q So A different screwdriver.
  3887.  
  3888. 10 A Yes.
  3889.  
  3890. 11 Q Okay. Now, as you're making these
  3891.  
  3892. 12 observations and essentially you came to the opinion
  3893.  
  3894. 13 that this car was stolen is that true?
  3895.  
  3896. 14 A Yes.
  3897.  
  3898. 15 Q Okay. You actually have some type of pin for
  3899.  
  3900. 16 uncovering or recovering?
  3901.  
  3902. 17 A Recognition.
  3903.  
  3904. 18 Q Recognition?
  3905.  
  3906. 19 A Yeah.
  3907.  
  3908. 20 Q All right. What type of recognition can you
  3909.  
  3910. 21 explain?
  3911.  
  3912. 22 A Stolen cars you get certain number certain
  3913.  
  3914. 23 color and then next color is you know larger recovered
  3915.  
  3916. 24 stolen vehicles next larger itself is a I ward
  3917.  
  3918. 25 California highway patrol.
  3919. 70
  3920.  
  3921.  
  3922.  
  3923.  
  3924.  
  3925.  
  3926. 1 Q So what color pen do you have?
  3927.  
  3928. 2 A And yesterday and where is that on the
  3929.  
  3930. 3 hierarchy.
  3931.  
  3932. 4 A I don't know.
  3933.  
  3934. 5 Q How many times have you changed colors?
  3935.  
  3936. 6 A I think two other times.
  3937.  
  3938. 7 Q Okay. All right. Now, when you were making
  3939.  
  3940. 8 this observation and arrived at is it opinion that the
  3941.  
  3942. 9 car was stolen or maybe stolen had you seen firearm at
  3943.  
  3944. 10 that point in time?
  3945.  
  3946. 11 A No.
  3947.  
  3948. 12 Q Okay. Did you communicate your opinion that
  3949.  
  3950. 13 the car was stolen to sergeant bat should be no.
  3951.  
  3952. 14 Q What was sergeant bat's location when you were
  3953.  
  3954. 15 making this oak central nervous system change with
  3955.  
  3956. 16 Mr. Brown and catchers position?
  3957.  
  3958. 17 A Remaining in his position on the driver
  3959.  
  3960. 18 outside of the car but along the driver side window.
  3961.  
  3962. 19 Q Okay. Now, you know that it turns into
  3963.  
  3964. 20 between Mr. Brown so describe how it you went from
  3965.  
  3966. 21 making pokes this car might be stolen to until you
  3967.  
  3968. 22 hands on with Mr. Brown?
  3969.  
  3970. 23 A Sure. As I was exchanging dialogue with him
  3971.  
  3972. 24 left hand was slogan slowly moving towards the center
  3973.  
  3974. 25 con sol of the vehicle right you understand oath the
  3975. 71
  3976.  
  3977.  
  3978.  
  3979.  
  3980.  
  3981.  
  3982. 1 break level with his left hand I told him I said what
  3983.  
  3984. 2 are you doing with your hand let me see your hand
  3985.  
  3986. 3 started off slow go a little bit faster and at that
  3987.  
  3988. 4 time try the and grab what was there so I
  3989.  
  3990. 5 congressmanned saying let me see you hand let me see
  3991.  
  3992. 6 your break level.
  3993.  
  3994. 7 A It appeared to be pulled up.
  3995.  
  3996. 8 Q So your started asking to see you started show
  3997.  
  3998. 9 you his hand?
  3999.  
  4000. 10 A Yes.
  4001.  
  4002. 11 Q All right did he comply?
  4003.  
  4004. 12 A No.
  4005.  
  4006. 13 Q What happened?
  4007.  
  4008. 14 A He immediately grabbed what I saw was a
  4009.  
  4010. 15 screwdriver and transferred it into his right hand and
  4011.  
  4012. 16 then he lunged forward in the car kind of in a coveting
  4013.  
  4014. 17 position for the ignition and it appear today stick the
  4015.  
  4016. 18 screwdriver in the ignition peer to fourth down the
  4017.  
  4018. 19 right.
  4019.  
  4020. 20 Q Did you here the car turn on?
  4021.  
  4022. 21 A Not at that time.
  4023.  
  4024. 22 Q Okay. So went from being the conversation if
  4025.  
  4026. 23 you will again yourself and Mr. Brown show me your hand
  4027.  
  4028. 24 pulls out the screwdriver with the left hand?
  4029.  
  4030. 25 A Yes.
  4031. 72
  4032.  
  4033.  
  4034.  
  4035.  
  4036.  
  4037.  
  4038. 1 Q Transfers to the right hand and reaches body
  4039.  
  4040. 2 to the i got all anything in order to insitter the?
  4041.  
  4042. 3 A That's correct.
  4043.  
  4044. 4 Q Okay. And it awe peered that the screwdriver
  4045.  
  4046. 5 went into the ignition?
  4047.  
  4048. 6 A Yes.
  4049.  
  4050. 7 Q And you made the movie THAOETment turned his
  4051.  
  4052. 8 hand is that true?
  4053.  
  4054. 9 A Yeah, I would see him try to turn the i got
  4055.  
  4056. 10 all anything.
  4057.  
  4058. 11 Q Okay. And did you say anything to him in
  4059.  
  4060. 12 response to what you were observing?
  4061.  
  4062. 13 A Drove drop the screwdriver stop resisting.
  4063.  
  4064. 14 Q Okay what it did you do next?
  4065.  
  4066. 15 A I observed the female as this was
  4067.  
  4068. 16 simultaneously taking place I observed the female jump
  4069.  
  4070. 17 back and put her hands up in the area like this.
  4071.  
  4072. 18 Q When you saw the female make in a move or that
  4073.  
  4074. 19 movement do you know where sergeant bat was at?
  4075.  
  4076. 20 A I believe he remained in the front outside the
  4077.  
  4078. 21 driver's I wouldn't area.
  4079.  
  4080. 22 Q Okay. And did you know did he was he saying
  4081.  
  4082. 23 anything at that point in time?
  4083.  
  4084. 24 A I think he was I believe he along the stop
  4085.  
  4086. 25 resisting or stop I don't know what at this time what
  4087. 73
  4088.  
  4089.  
  4090.  
  4091.  
  4092.  
  4093.  
  4094. 1 he said but I believe he was saying almost the same
  4095.  
  4096. 2 things I was.
  4097.  
  4098. 3 Q Okay. And when you saw the driver kind of get
  4099.  
  4100. 4 back and lean back into the driver's seat, was that at
  4101.  
  4102. 5 the same time sergeant bat put his gun into the car?
  4103.  
  4104. 6 A No.
  4105.  
  4106. 7 Q Had you did you do you see sergeant bat into
  4107.  
  4108. 8 the car at that point in time when you saw the driver
  4109.  
  4110. 9 Perries kind of get back as you driver laid back into
  4111.  
  4112. 10 the driver seat and put her hand up?
  4113.  
  4114. 11 A No.
  4115.  
  4116. 12 Q Okay. What took place next?
  4117.  
  4118. 13 A Well, I feared that the car was stolen that he
  4119.  
  4120. 14 was trying the attempt to flee by starting the car and
  4121.  
  4122. 15 I was worried that later finding out possibly kidnapped
  4123.  
  4124. 16 that was all going through my mind throw hers she
  4125.  
  4126. 17 didn't whatever was going on.
  4127.  
  4128. 18 Q Okay. So you're concerned now for the driver
  4129.  
  4130. 19 as well?
  4131.  
  4132. 20 A Yes.
  4133.  
  4134. 21 Q Cooperating with what the passengers request
  4135.  
  4136. 22 are to drive off?
  4137.  
  4138. 23 A Yes.
  4139.  
  4140. 24 Q You're unsure where she's interesting held
  4141.  
  4142. 25 against her will?
  4143. 74
  4144.  
  4145.  
  4146.  
  4147.  
  4148.  
  4149.  
  4150. 1 A Correct.
  4151.  
  4152. 2 ATTORNEY2: Read.
  4153.  
  4154. 3 MR. POINTERQ. So cxsvatds shes concerned
  4155.  
  4156. 4 about her safety remember yes.
  4157.  
  4158. 5 Q And at this point in time when you see the
  4159.  
  4160. 6 driver lean back in her seat what was Mr. Brown doing?
  4161.  
  4162. 7 A He was remained with a he was doing i got all
  4163.  
  4164. 8 anything yelling at her go I believe he even said drive
  4165.  
  4166. 9 bitch Cryuff.
  4167.  
  4168. 10 Q I'm sorry go ahead?
  4169.  
  4170. 11 A No that's it.
  4171.  
  4172. 12 Q Did you see him trying to did you see him
  4173.  
  4174. 13 reaching for the gear selector?
  4175.  
  4176. 14 A I don't think at this time no.
  4177.  
  4178. 15 Q Okay. So did he remain in that position of
  4179.  
  4180. 16 trying to start the ignition?
  4181.  
  4182. 17 A Yes from what happened stop doing do something
  4183.  
  4184. 18 else.
  4185.  
  4186. 19 A Eventually.
  4187.  
  4188. 20 Q How long did that take place how much time
  4189.  
  4190. 21 pass when he was turning the ignition?
  4191.  
  4192. 22 A You know I don't think I can give an estimate
  4193.  
  4194. 23 on the ignition part I think from the time that I
  4195.  
  4196. 24 entered the vehicle and the struggle that was inside
  4197.  
  4198. 25 the vehicle I would guess.
  4199. 75
  4200.  
  4201.  
  4202.  
  4203.  
  4204.  
  4205.  
  4206. 1 ATTORNEY4: Excuse me.
  4207.  
  4208. 2 THE WITNESS: Or estimate ability I'd say give
  4209.  
  4210. 3 or take 20 seconds.
  4211.  
  4212. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. So from the time you
  4213.  
  4214. 5 actually leaned into the vehicle and Mr. Brown dealing
  4215.  
  4216. 6 with the ignition with the screwdriver that point in
  4217.  
  4218. 7 time is 20 seconds?
  4219.  
  4220. 8 A From the time i n e don't know how to break
  4221.  
  4222. 9 down the amount of time he spent on the ignition what I
  4223.  
  4224. 10 can give you an something like that on is the time when
  4225.  
  4226. 11 I jumped in the car the struggle by the time I was
  4227.  
  4228. 12 trying to exit the vehicle that's all I can give you a
  4229.  
  4230. 13 time frame about accurate estimate for the actual i got
  4231.  
  4232. 14 all anything.
  4233.  
  4234. 15 Q Okay. So when you say jumped in the car did
  4235.  
  4236. 16 you physically get into your leave your feet into the
  4237.  
  4238. 17 passenger compartment what do you mean by that?
  4239.  
  4240. 18 A My fealty I believe were touching the ground
  4241.  
  4242. 19 at times but they were outside of the car my body was
  4243.  
  4244. 20 inside the car I was almost sitting in the passenger
  4245.  
  4246. 21 seat with my arms at certain parts of the struggle
  4247.  
  4248. 22 around many brown.
  4249.  
  4250. 23 Q Okay. So in terms of body positioning when
  4251.  
  4252. 24 Mr. Brown reached for the ignition and you initially
  4253.  
  4254. 25 inserted your body into the car describe your body
  4255. 76
  4256.  
  4257.  
  4258.  
  4259.  
  4260.  
  4261.  
  4262. 1 position?
  4263.  
  4264. 2 A I was leaning so when I was in a catchers
  4265.  
  4266. 3 stance I went forward and I turned and I know my bottom
  4267.  
  4268. 4 was sitting on the seat and my legs were leaning
  4269.  
  4270. 5 against the sidewalk.
  4271.  
  4272. 6 Q Okay?
  4273.  
  4274. 7 A I remember just being grabbing Mr. Brown as I
  4275.  
  4276. 8 was almost sitting in the seat lap some was cough
  4277.  
  4278. 9 vetting this gear shifter and I remember that's when
  4279.  
  4280. 10 the struggle end sued.
  4281.  
  4282. 11 Q So in terms of your back was your back facing
  4283.  
  4284. 12 when you were describing the struggle end sued and you
  4285.  
  4286. 13 went into the car from out of the catchers position was
  4287.  
  4288. 14 your back facing the dash board or was it facing which
  4289.  
  4290. 15 what was your back facing?
  4291.  
  4292. 16 ATTORNEY2: My only concern is that there
  4293.  
  4294. 17 maybe ambiguity there in that his back may have move
  4295.  
  4296. 18 from spot to spot go ahead and answer.
  4297.  
  4298. 19 THE WITNESS: That's what I was going to say
  4299.  
  4300. 20 that I wasn't situated in one position the whole time
  4301.  
  4302. 21 you know I was moving around in a fair correction my
  4303.  
  4304. 22 back was facing the rear of the car.
  4305.  
  4306. 23 Q Your back was facing the rear of the car?
  4307.  
  4308. 24 A If I'm sitting in the passenger site right now
  4309.  
  4310. 25 rear of the car grabbing like this.
  4311. 77
  4312.  
  4313.  
  4314.  
  4315.  
  4316.  
  4317.  
  4318. 1 Q Okay. So you mentioned that Mr. Brown had
  4319.  
  4320. 2 jumped up in almost sitting in your lap at this point
  4321.  
  4322. 3 in time?
  4323.  
  4324. 4 A Yes.
  4325.  
  4326. 5 Q So you're thigh area and torso was behind
  4327.  
  4328. 6 Mr. Brown then correct?
  4329.  
  4330. 7 A Yes.
  4331.  
  4332. 8 Q Okay. And with your legs out of the car is
  4333.  
  4334. 9 that true?
  4335.  
  4336. 10 A Yes.
  4337.  
  4338. 11 Q So your body if you will your buttocks?
  4339.  
  4340. 12 A Booties.
  4341.  
  4342. 13 Q Glutety I couldn't say maximum if you will
  4343.  
  4344. 14 towards the i got all anything of the car?
  4345.  
  4346. 15 A Yes from okay. And you are grabbing him from
  4347.  
  4348. 16 behind and bringing him towards yourself.
  4349.  
  4350. 17 A Trying to.
  4351.  
  4352. 18 Q In order to him helium membershipping the
  4353.  
  4354. 19 ignition that true?
  4355.  
  4356. 20 A That's correct.
  4357.  
  4358. 21 Q Okay. And your grabbing him about his upper
  4359.  
  4360. 22 body is that true?
  4361.  
  4362. 23 A Periodically.
  4363.  
  4364. 24 Q Okay. Speak for myself around his shoulder
  4365.  
  4366. 25 area is that correct?
  4367. 78
  4368.  
  4369.  
  4370.  
  4371.  
  4372.  
  4373.  
  4374. 1 A That's correct.
  4375.  
  4376. 2 Q All right. And were you also reaching for his
  4377.  
  4378. 3 hands?
  4379.  
  4380. 4 A I don't know if I could reach that far but I
  4381.  
  4382. 5 was trying to reach for his arms.
  4383.  
  4384. 6 Q In order to restrain him?
  4385.  
  4386. 7 A Yes.
  4387.  
  4388. 8 Q And I believe you said he was sweating?
  4389.  
  4390. 9 A Yes.
  4391.  
  4392. 10 Q And shirt was ultimately ripped?
  4393.  
  4394. 11 A Yes.
  4395.  
  4396. 12 Q At what point in time half way in the strug
  4397.  
  4398. 13 cxsvatds ment.
  4399.  
  4400. 14 Q Do you know how it was ripped were you pulling
  4401.  
  4402. 15 on the shirt catch on something do you know how the
  4403.  
  4404. 16 shelter ripped?
  4405.  
  4406. 17 A Yes.
  4407.  
  4408. 18 Q I rich audiotape pull him back getting more of
  4409.  
  4410. 19 the shirt and end up ripping down.
  4411.  
  4412. 20 Q Okay. And at that point in time was it what
  4413.  
  4414. 21 position was he in was he still leaned over sitting up?
  4415.  
  4416. 22 A Just leaning over the hand leveler and the
  4417.  
  4418. 23 gear shifter.
  4419.  
  4420. 24 Q And he still had the screwdriver?
  4421.  
  4422. 25 A I believe so.
  4423. 79
  4424.  
  4425.  
  4426.  
  4427.  
  4428.  
  4429.  
  4430. 1 Q Can you describe the color of the screwdriver?
  4431.  
  4432. 2 A I want to say green that's what pops in my
  4433.  
  4434. 3 head.
  4435.  
  4436. 4 Q Okay. And I believe previous statements you
  4437.  
  4438. 5 said that you thought it was a Phillips screwdriver.
  4439.  
  4440. 6 A I believe I recall saying that driving do you
  4441.  
  4442. 7 still.
  4443.  
  4444. 8 A I just remember seeing a point I honestly
  4445.  
  4446. 9 can't say flat head or Phillips today's date.
  4447.  
  4448. 10 Q Sure. Now, in the statement that you gave to
  4449.  
  4450. 11 OPD within hours of this statement that an vat?
  4451.  
  4452. 12 A Yes.
  4453.  
  4454. 13 Q Memory better than it is today?
  4455.  
  4456. 14 A Yes.
  4457.  
  4458. 15 Q Okay. So you see him with the crew driver
  4459.  
  4460. 16 he's trying to get the car started at least that's how
  4461.  
  4462. 17 it appeared to you?
  4463.  
  4464. 18 A Yes.
  4465.  
  4466. 19 Q You're grabbing him back away from the
  4467.  
  4468. 20 ignition?
  4469.  
  4470. 21 A Correct.
  4471.  
  4472. 22 Q Closer to you?
  4473.  
  4474. 23 A Trying to.
  4475.  
  4476. 24 Q Trying to. Okay at any time did he actually
  4477.  
  4478. 25 grab you and hold you?
  4479. 80
  4480.  
  4481.  
  4482.  
  4483.  
  4484.  
  4485.  
  4486. 1 A No.
  4487.  
  4488. 2 Q Okay. Now, did you see sergeant bat hit or
  4489.  
  4490. 3 strike Mr. Brown at any point in this time during this
  4491.  
  4492. 4 incident with his flashlight?
  4493.  
  4494. 5 A I believe I did.
  4495.  
  4496. 6 Q Do you know what part of the body that strike
  4497.  
  4498. 7 or hand -- strike that question do you know what part
  4499.  
  4500. 8 of the body sergeant bat's flashlight hit Ryan brown?
  4501.  
  4502. 9 A I remember seeing it hit his cochlea I have
  4503.  
  4504. 10 call.
  4505.  
  4506. 11 Q All right. Did that flashlight hit you?
  4507.  
  4508. 12 A No, I don't think so -- I don't believe it
  4509.  
  4510. 13 did.
  4511.  
  4512. 14 Q May have public services but you don't have a
  4513.  
  4514. 15 memory is that true?
  4515.  
  4516. 16 A That's correct.
  4517.  
  4518. 17 Q There's a lot going on?
  4519.  
  4520. 18 A Yes.
  4521.  
  4522. 19 Q All right. So at some point in time I believe
  4523.  
  4524. 20 you given testimony -- strike that you made statements
  4525.  
  4526. 21 that Mr. Brown turned and tried to stab you is that
  4527.  
  4528. 22 true?
  4529.  
  4530. 23 A That's true.
  4531.  
  4532. 24 Q Okay describe for me how that took place?
  4533.  
  4534. 25 A I got the impression that because the amount
  4535. 81
  4536.  
  4537.  
  4538.  
  4539.  
  4540.  
  4541.  
  4542. 1 of time that went on brown's demands of driving away
  4543.  
  4544. 2 didn't seem to have been met it was my impression that
  4545.  
  4546. 3 and I can't speak for him but my impression was that he
  4547.  
  4548. 4 felt there was no other place to go and I was trying my
  4549.  
  4550. 5 hardest to get control over him I was trying to you
  4551.  
  4552. 6 know I ended up doing a hammer first strike back Pam of
  4553.  
  4554. 7 your hands hammer first strikes to him side get limb to
  4555.  
  4556. 8 either release screw screwdriver situation more control
  4557.  
  4558. 9 over him.
  4559.  
  4560. 10 Q Just a question the first strikes how many did
  4561.  
  4562. 11 you do?
  4563.  
  4564. 12 A Tree and five.
  4565.  
  4566. 13 Q Okay. And where did they land?
  4567.  
  4568. 14 A His lower back I'd say his back somewhere in
  4569.  
  4570. 15 his lower back.
  4571.  
  4572. 16 Q More to the left side right side?
  4573.  
  4574. 17 A Right side.
  4575.  
  4576. 18 Q Okay. And did you do they appear to have any
  4577.  
  4578. 19 affect on him?
  4579.  
  4580. 20 A No.
  4581.  
  4582. 21 Q Did you use any other strikes or blow us to
  4583.  
  4584. 22 him?
  4585.  
  4586. 23 A No.
  4587.  
  4588. 24 Q Okay. So and this was hammer strikes that was
  4589.  
  4590. 25 prior to him turning on you with the screw screwdriver?
  4591. 82
  4592.  
  4593.  
  4594.  
  4595.  
  4596.  
  4597.  
  4598. 1 A Yes.
  4599.  
  4600. 2 Q So you do is hammer no effect and some point
  4601.  
  4602. 3 turns you towards the screwdriver?
  4603.  
  4604. 4 A He went back and elbow me in the buy accept on
  4605.  
  4606. 5 the right buy accept.
  4607.  
  4608. 6 Q After the hammer strikes?
  4609.  
  4610. 7 A This was after the hammer strikes.
  4611.  
  4612. 8 Q Okay?
  4613.  
  4614. 9 A And then I ripped his shirt off at that time
  4615.  
  4616. 10 because I was trying to get control of husband
  4617.  
  4618. 11 shoulders then arched myself point guards put his hand
  4619.  
  4620. 12 around his upper body so I put my hand around like this
  4621.  
  4622. 13 to try to pull him back and.
  4623.  
  4624. 14 Q So move you used try to pull him co-op radded
  4625.  
  4626. 15 restraint?
  4627.  
  4628. 16 A That wasn't my goal but similar kind of
  4629.  
  4630. 17 California natural re S.
  4631.  
  4632. 18 Q Okay?
  4633.  
  4634. 19 ATTORNEY2: Belieu is a reaching with his
  4635.  
  4636. 20 right arm as he was demonstrating this.
  4637.  
  4638. 21 ATTORNEY3: Sergeant.
  4639.  
  4640. 22 ATTORNEY2: I didn't mean to interrupt please
  4641.  
  4642. 23 go ahead.
  4643.  
  4644. 24 MR. POINTERQ. Are you done describing okay.
  4645.  
  4646. 25 So you use your right arm to try to grab Mr. Brown in a
  4647. 83
  4648.  
  4649.  
  4650.  
  4651.  
  4652.  
  4653.  
  4654. 1 form of fashion similar to the co-op radded restraint
  4655.  
  4656. 2 although that wasn't your intent?
  4657.  
  4658. 3 A Yeah.
  4659.  
  4660. 4 Q Grab him back towards you correct?
  4661.  
  4662. 5 A Yes, it was more along the lines of shoulder.
  4663.  
  4664. 6 Q Okay all right.
  4665.  
  4666. 7 A And then at that time when I did that he bit
  4667.  
  4668. 8 my wrest.
  4669.  
  4670. 9 Q Okay?
  4671.  
  4672. 10 A And he bit it in I don't know how long he bit
  4673.  
  4674. 11 down for he to registering the pain and before I felt
  4675.  
  4676. 12 that he could have a real good clamp on it right at
  4677.  
  4678. 13 that point I rolled my arm backwards.
  4679.  
  4680. 14 Q So you moved your arm away from a the bite?
  4681.  
  4682. 15 A Yeah, I rolled it out.
  4683.  
  4684. 16 Q Like flick of the wrist?
  4685.  
  4686. 17 A Yeah.
  4687.  
  4688. 18 Q Flick your wrist away from Mr. brown's teeth?
  4689.  
  4690. 19 A Yeah.
  4691.  
  4692. 20 Q Okay. All right. And what happened next?
  4693.  
  4694. 21 A So at that point it I mean it kind of hurt my
  4695.  
  4696. 22 wrist so I flicked it out and I actually did I waive my
  4697.  
  4698. 23 hand in the air like if you were to cool it down with
  4699.  
  4700. 24 air that's kind of the motion they did so when I did
  4701.  
  4702. 25 that I actually let go of him and I actually flicked my
  4703. 84
  4704.  
  4705.  
  4706.  
  4707.  
  4708.  
  4709.  
  4710. 1 wrist at that point Mr. Brown turned towards the right
  4711.  
  4712. 2 and then struck me a couple times in my vest area.
  4713.  
  4714. 3 Q You just demonstrated you turned to your right
  4715.  
  4716. 4 and you used your right hand correct?
  4717.  
  4718. 5 A Correct if and you had palm facing down is
  4719.  
  4720. 6 that true with your fingers clenched in a first.
  4721.  
  4722. 7 A Hand were but that's that you makes sense to
  4723.  
  4724. 8 me.
  4725.  
  4726. 9 Q And you made a motion lights a hemier strike
  4727.  
  4728. 10 is that true?
  4729.  
  4730. 11 A True.
  4731.  
  4732. 12 Q And I take it the pointed edge of the
  4733.  
  4734. 13 screwdriver was also facing right, as well right?
  4735.  
  4736. 14 ATTORNEY2: I'm not sure your question to me
  4737.  
  4738. 15 is vague and ambiguous but go ahead and answer if you
  4739.  
  4740. 16 understand you want to understand how he's.
  4741.  
  4742. 17 Q Describe how he was holding the screwdriver?
  4743.  
  4744. 18 A I think it was the same motion that he had it
  4745.  
  4746. 19 when he started the ignition I believe that he just
  4747.  
  4748. 20 went back with the screwdriver point end pointing away
  4749.  
  4750. 21 from me and I believe that the backside of the
  4751.  
  4752. 22 screwdriver he used at that .2 strike me in the chest
  4753.  
  4754. 23 that's what makes sense to me.
  4755.  
  4756. 24 Q So when the initial I 30 you said two times
  4757.  
  4758. 25 you were initially struck in the chest with the
  4759. 85
  4760.  
  4761.  
  4762.  
  4763.  
  4764.  
  4765.  
  4766. 1 screwdriver with the blunted end of the screwdriver?
  4767.  
  4768. 2 A I believe it was.
  4769.  
  4770. 3 Q Okay. That's fine you said you need today go
  4771.  
  4772. 4 to the bathroom?
  4773.  
  4774. 5 A Yeah could I go next maybe couple minutes
  4775.  
  4776. 6 continue but.
  4777.  
  4778. 7 Q I can take a break right now?
  4779.  
  4780. 8 A Okay.
  4781.  
  4782. 9 (Recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 12:21
  4783.  
  4784. 10 p.m.)
  4785.  
  4786. 11 MR. POINTERQ. So before we went off the
  4787.  
  4788. 12 record sergeant two times with the screw driver
  4789.  
  4790. 13 corrects?
  4791.  
  4792. 14 A Yes.
  4793.  
  4794. 15 Q And then you were saying that Mr. Brown then
  4795.  
  4796. 16 went on to hit you additional times is that true?
  4797.  
  4798. 17 A Yes.
  4799.  
  4800. 18 Q Describe how the additional what happened
  4801.  
  4802. 19 after the initial two strikes?
  4803.  
  4804. 20 A 1 flew window motion there wasn't any little
  4805.  
  4806. 21 in the strikes two strikes that's when it started
  4807.  
  4808. 22 register strike striking me and is that I new there was
  4809.  
  4810. 23 a screwdriver in his hand so I immediately went back
  4811.  
  4812. 24 into the car back into the seat put my hand up to
  4813.  
  4814. 25 defend myself.
  4815. 86
  4816.  
  4817.  
  4818.  
  4819.  
  4820.  
  4821.  
  4822. 1 Q Okay. And so what took place next?
  4823.  
  4824. 2 A I remember seeing a point from the screwdriver
  4825.  
  4826. 3 and I remember wanting to go down to my own weapon and
  4827.  
  4828. 4 to shoot Mr. Brown but I felt the time and if I did
  4829.  
  4830. 5 that I would leave myself vulnerable for a strike and.
  4831.  
  4832. 6 Q So you decide not to pull your own weapon
  4833.  
  4834. 7 right?
  4835.  
  4836. 8 A I couldn't.
  4837.  
  4838. 9 Q Okay. And at this point in time this about
  4839.  
  4840. 10 the time when you told sergeant bat to shoot?
  4841.  
  4842. 11 A Yes.
  4843.  
  4844. 12 Q Okay. Do you know sergeant bat's position
  4845.  
  4846. 13 when you told him to shoot?
  4847.  
  4848. 14 A No.
  4849.  
  4850. 15 Q Okay. Now, Mr. Brown what position was he in
  4851.  
  4852. 16 when you told sergeant bat to shoot?
  4853.  
  4854. 17 A He was striking me he was I was still back in
  4855.  
  4856. 18 the chair and Mr. Brown was still in he was turned with
  4857.  
  4858. 19 his back to the door and.
  4859.  
  4860. 20 Q You said back to the door which down?
  4861.  
  4862. 21 A The driver's door like a hammer first strike
  4863.  
  4864. 22 sideways and so when I realized when I say the point
  4865.  
  4866. 23 and I was afraid that I was going to get stabbed in the
  4867.  
  4868. 24 throat clear as day right up here.
  4869.  
  4870. 25 ATTORNEY2: Let the record reflect that
  4871. 87
  4872.  
  4873.  
  4874.  
  4875.  
  4876.  
  4877.  
  4878. 1 Mr. Buddy belieu is a wassing one of the screwdriver
  4879.  
  4880. 2 position just below the neck and shin area.
  4881.  
  4882. 3 ATTORNEY3: His neck and shin area.
  4883.  
  4884. 4 ATTORNEY2: His neck and shin area yeah.
  4885.  
  4886. 5 MR. POINTERQ. Mr. Brown's arm as it was
  4887.  
  4888. 6 making this stabbing motion as he was stracking you it
  4889.  
  4890. 7 was using his right hand out away from his body is that
  4891.  
  4892. 8 true?
  4893.  
  4894. 9 A That's true.
  4895.  
  4896. 10 Q And the bent of his elbow was such to where
  4897.  
  4898. 11 his hand was going out and away mean to go the right?
  4899.  
  4900. 12 A That's true that's correct.
  4901.  
  4902. 13 Q And you were still in the seat with both of
  4903.  
  4904. 14 your hands up blocking trying to block these blows?
  4905.  
  4906. 15 A Yes.
  4907.  
  4908. 16 Q And Mr. Brown had his back to the driver's
  4909.  
  4910. 17 door while he was doing this stature?
  4911.  
  4912. 18 A Approximately I don't know exactly where he
  4913.  
  4914. 19 was but that makes sense.
  4915.  
  4916. 20 Q In his legs and feet were still in the car is
  4917.  
  4918. 21 that true?
  4919.  
  4920. 22 A Mr. Brown's.
  4921.  
  4922. 23 Q Yes?
  4923.  
  4924. 24 A Yes.
  4925.  
  4926. 25 Q Okay. Now, cue see his face when he was doing
  4927. 88
  4928.  
  4929.  
  4930.  
  4931.  
  4932.  
  4933.  
  4934. 1 this?
  4935.  
  4936. 2 A I don't believe so.
  4937.  
  4938. 3 Q Okay. Is there was there anything obstructing
  4939.  
  4940. 4 your vision of his face?
  4941.  
  4942. 5 A No I was solely concentrated where his hands
  4943.  
  4944. 6 were.
  4945.  
  4946. 7 Q Okay. And he was doing the stabbing motion
  4947.  
  4948. 8 with one hand?
  4949.  
  4950. 9 A Yes.
  4951.  
  4952. 10 Q Do you know what the other hand was doing?
  4953.  
  4954. 11 A No.
  4955.  
  4956. 12 Q Was he saying anything while he was trying to
  4957.  
  4958. 13 stab you?
  4959.  
  4960. 14 A No.
  4961.  
  4962. 15 Q And every it's true that every strike that he
  4963.  
  4964. 16 tried to deliver actually made contract with you and
  4965.  
  4966. 17 your person?
  4967.  
  4968. 18 A With me and my person correct.
  4969.  
  4970. 19 Q All right. Now she says when you told what it
  4971.  
  4972. 20 did you say in terms of telling Mr. Sergeant bat to
  4973.  
  4974. 21 shoot?
  4975.  
  4976. 22 A I just screamed shoot him shoot him.
  4977.  
  4978. 23 Q Okay. And prior to you screaming shoot him
  4979.  
  4980. 24 shoot him you hasn't said anything related to the gun?
  4981.  
  4982. 25 A No.
  4983. 89
  4984.  
  4985.  
  4986.  
  4987.  
  4988.  
  4989.  
  4990. 1 Q Cause you hasn't?
  4991.  
  4992. 2 A That's correct.
  4993.  
  4994. 3 Q When you said shoot him shoot him what took
  4995.  
  4996. 4 place next?
  4997.  
  4998. 5 A I want I was still defending myself I wanted
  4999.  
  5000. 6 to exit the car as quickly as I could 'cause even
  5001.  
  5002. 7 though I said shoot him shoot him I didn't know if that
  5003.  
  5004. 8 was actually going to happen and I need out of this
  5005.  
  5006. 9 vehicle as well as defending myself I cannot stay in
  5007.  
  5008. 10 this vehicle I remember trying to use Mr. Brown's force
  5009.  
  5010. 11 that he was trying to use that try to counter to give
  5011.  
  5012. 12 me some leverage to exit the vehicle.
  5013.  
  5014. 13 Q Okay. And so did you hear did sergeant bat
  5015.  
  5016. 14 shoot him?
  5017.  
  5018. 15 A Yes.
  5019.  
  5020. 16 Q About how much time pass shoot him shoot him
  5021.  
  5022. 17 and you hearing shots?
  5023.  
  5024. 18 A I don't know if I can give you an estimate.
  5025.  
  5026. 19 Q That because you don't know or you didn't have
  5027.  
  5028. 20 a sense as to when the shots initial shots were fire or
  5029.  
  5030. 21 why is that?
  5031.  
  5032. 22 A I know that I don't know if I can give you an
  5033.  
  5034. 23 estimate in time I know where I was looking and I know
  5035.  
  5036. 24 what direction I was at when the first two shots were
  5037.  
  5038. 25 taking place.
  5039. 90
  5040.  
  5041.  
  5042.  
  5043.  
  5044.  
  5045.  
  5046. 1 Q Okay. When you say you can't give me estimate
  5047.  
  5048. 2 of time was it base instantaneous to you sating sense
  5049.  
  5050. 3 as to how much time pass?
  5051.  
  5052. 4 ATTORNEY4: Objection asked and answered.
  5053.  
  5054. 5 ATTORNEY2: Go ahead.
  5055.  
  5056. 6 THE WITNESS: I think you know it was very --
  5057.  
  5058. 7 shortly after I said shoot him shoot him so if I were
  5059.  
  5060. 8 to give an estimate you know I'd probably three
  5061.  
  5062. 9 seconds.
  5063.  
  5064. 10 Q Okay. When wow said shoot him shoot him were
  5065.  
  5066. 11 you hit any additional times with the screwdriver?
  5067.  
  5068. 12 A I don't know.
  5069.  
  5070. 13 Q Okay. So the five or so times that you recall
  5071.  
  5072. 14 being hit with the screwdriver was prior to you saying
  5073.  
  5074. 15 shoot him shoot him?
  5075.  
  5076. 16 A That's fair to say.
  5077.  
  5078. 17 Q And then shoulder pains range out
  5079.  
  5080. 18 approximately three seconds after you said shoot him
  5081.  
  5082. 19 shoot him?
  5083.  
  5084. 20 A Correct.
  5085.  
  5086. 21 Q Okay. And at or about that time when the
  5087.  
  5088. 22 shots were fired you were still in the car?
  5089.  
  5090. 23 A I was in the car.
  5091.  
  5092. 24 ATTORNEY2: What you were intending to do.
  5093.  
  5094. 25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  5095. 91
  5096.  
  5097.  
  5098.  
  5099.  
  5100.  
  5101.  
  5102. 1 MR. POINTERQ. All right. Now, is it
  5103.  
  5104. 2 immediately before and I'm talking about within seconds
  5105.  
  5106. 3 of you saying shoot him shoot him was Mr. Brown holding
  5107.  
  5108. 4 you in any kind of way?
  5109.  
  5110. 5 A I don't believe so.
  5111.  
  5112. 6 Q Okay. Was there anything preventing you from
  5113.  
  5114. 7 getting out of the car prior to you saying shoot him
  5115.  
  5116. 8 shoot him?
  5117.  
  5118. 9 A The way my body was positioned preventing but
  5119.  
  5120. 10 I would say it would be very difficult and I would have
  5121.  
  5122. 11 really been off balance if I try to.
  5123.  
  5124. 12 Q Was it the balance off balance is what made it
  5125.  
  5126. 13 difficult for you to get out of the car prior to the
  5127.  
  5128. 14 shooting?
  5129.  
  5130. 15 A Correct.
  5131.  
  5132. 16 Q Okay. Now, it did you give my warning prior
  5133.  
  5134. 17 to ordering officer bat to shoot Ryan Brown?
  5135.  
  5136. 18 ATTORNEY2: Well, I'm going to object to your
  5137.  
  5138. 19 term ordering because I think that's argumentative but
  5139.  
  5140. 20 you may answer the question Mr. Bell lieu is a.
  5141.  
  5142. 21 THE WITNESS: What type of wash warning the
  5143.  
  5144. 22 only thing I said was shoot him shoot him.
  5145.  
  5146. 23 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. It's fair to say you
  5147.  
  5148. 24 didn't give my warn to go ha helium audiotape brown
  5149.  
  5150. 25 stop you're going to be shot don't stap me or you're
  5151. 92
  5152.  
  5153.  
  5154.  
  5155.  
  5156.  
  5157.  
  5158. 1 going to be shot prior to you telling sergeant bat to
  5159.  
  5160. 2 shoot him shoot him is that fair to say?
  5161.  
  5162. 3 ATTORNEY2: Do you mean other than prior to
  5163.  
  5164. 4 add month 96 quit resisting 'cause I'm not distinction
  5165.  
  5166. 5 www there was no time for me many to allow me had to
  5167.  
  5168. 6 say that shoot him shoot him.
  5169.  
  5170. 7 Q Okay. So nothing was said in terms of don't
  5171.  
  5172. 8 do X or Y is going to happen to you?
  5173.  
  5174. 9 A That's correct.
  5175.  
  5176. 10 Q Okay. Now, you did hear the shots correct?
  5177.  
  5178. 11 A Yes.
  5179.  
  5180. 12 Q Okay. And in listening to your statement that
  5181.  
  5182. 13 you gave to OPD in preparation for you deposition here
  5183.  
  5184. 14 today do you recall you telling OPD that the shots
  5185.  
  5186. 15 sounded precise almost like a training exercise words
  5187.  
  5188. 16 to that effect?
  5189.  
  5190. 17 A Correct.
  5191.  
  5192. 18 Q Okay. Were the shots that you hear consist
  5193.  
  5194. 19 with a person using a double tap technique of course I
  5195.  
  5196. 20 don't know.
  5197.  
  5198. 21 Q Do you know what the double tap technique is?
  5199.  
  5200. 22 A Yes.
  5201.  
  5202. 23 Q What is it?
  5203.  
  5204. 24 A That's just two shots at a mass to a person.
  5205.  
  5206. 25 Q Okay. And is that what you heard two shots?
  5207. 93
  5208.  
  5209.  
  5210.  
  5211.  
  5212.  
  5213.  
  5214. 1 A Yes.
  5215.  
  5216. 2 Q Did you hear more shots?
  5217.  
  5218. 3 A Yes.
  5219.  
  5220. 4 Q Okay. Have you been informed that sergeant
  5221.  
  5222. 5 bat's gun reportedly jammed or malfunction during the
  5223.  
  5224. 6 course of this incident?
  5225.  
  5226. 7 A Yes.
  5227.  
  5228. 8 Q Okay. It did you know that at the time of
  5229.  
  5230. 9 this incident?
  5231.  
  5232. 10 A For Mr. KAPBG.
  5233.  
  5234. 11 Q When did you first learn that information?
  5235.  
  5236. 12 A Through added recommendations.
  5237.  
  5238. 13 ATTORNEY2: He just wants to know when you
  5239.  
  5240. 14 want to know when -- well, forgo it.
  5241.  
  5242. 15 MR. POINTERQ. So through added recollection
  5243.  
  5244. 16 what does that mean?
  5245.  
  5246. 17 ATTORNEY2: Is your inquiry out the work when
  5247.  
  5248. 18 he became aware that the gun had jammed.
  5249.  
  5250. 19 MR. POINTERQ. Sergeant, you've said that you
  5251.  
  5252. 20 later you didn't know at the time of the incident that
  5253.  
  5254. 21 the gun had reportedly fall functioned correct?
  5255.  
  5256. 22 A I didn't remember -- are you saying that night
  5257.  
  5258. 23 at OPD.
  5259.  
  5260. 24 Q Just okay so when the shooting took mace you
  5261.  
  5262. 25 heard two shots, yes.
  5263. 94
  5264.  
  5265.  
  5266.  
  5267.  
  5268.  
  5269.  
  5270. 1 Q When the shotting you married two?
  5271.  
  5272. 2 A Yes.
  5273.  
  5274. 3 Q Additional shots later on?
  5275.  
  5276. 4 A I believe I did.
  5277.  
  5278. 5 Q Okay. Were you aware when you were hearing
  5279.  
  5280. 6 those this gun reportedly malfunctioned?
  5281.  
  5282. 7 ATTORNEY2: My only problem with your question
  5283.  
  5284. 8 is with them two shots were fired did you do he then
  5285.  
  5286. 9 become aware it was jammed or at some point as this was
  5287.  
  5288. 10 taking place.
  5289.  
  5290. 11 MR. POINTERQ. At any point in time when you
  5291.  
  5292. 12 heard the shots being fired were you aware that the
  5293.  
  5294. 13 fun?
  5295.  
  5296. 14 A I the gun aware that night.
  5297.  
  5298. 15 Q Okay. So at in point in time that night were
  5299.  
  5300. 16 you told that sergeant bat's gun reportedly
  5301.  
  5302. 17 malfunction. No.
  5303.  
  5304. 18 Q At least a day later that true?
  5305.  
  5306. 19 A That I remember later.
  5307.  
  5308. 20 Q You remembered later?
  5309.  
  5310. 21 A Yes.
  5311.  
  5312. 22 Q Immaterial lid of something tell you?
  5313.  
  5314. 23 A Yes.
  5315.  
  5316. 24 Q And when it did you remember that?
  5317.  
  5318. 25 A Let's see it would have to be I'd say a few
  5319. 95
  5320.  
  5321.  
  5322.  
  5323.  
  5324.  
  5325.  
  5326. 1 months later.
  5327.  
  5328. 2 Q Triggered this memory?
  5329.  
  5330. 3 A Yes.
  5331.  
  5332. 4 ATTORNEY2: Just a moment question belieu is a
  5333.  
  5334. 5 aspect of that discussion you had with your attorney
  5335.  
  5336. 6 or.
  5337.  
  5338. 7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  5339.  
  5340. 8 ATTORNEY2: Well then we're not bingo to go
  5341.  
  5342. 9 there attorney-client privilege.
  5343.  
  5344. 10 MR. POINTERQ. Excuse me so something else
  5345.  
  5346. 11 triggered this memory is that true?
  5347.  
  5348. 12 A Yes.
  5349.  
  5350. 13 Q Okay. Now, prior to and you said this was
  5351.  
  5352. 14 months later that you recall this happening?
  5353.  
  5354. 15 A When you're talking specifically to the gun
  5355.  
  5356. 16 manipulating.
  5357.  
  5358. 17 Q Mall if you thinking?
  5359.  
  5360. 18 A Yes the gun mall functioning was later.
  5361.  
  5362. 19 Q Okay. Cause you didn't mention any of that
  5363.  
  5364. 20 when you spoke to OPD that night correct?
  5365.  
  5366. 21 A That's correct.
  5367.  
  5368. 22 Q All right. Now --
  5369.  
  5370. 23 A But I want to say on the record I was never
  5371.  
  5372. 24 asked about a gun manipulation.
  5373.  
  5374. 25 Q When you say manipulation happen are you refer
  5375. 96
  5376.  
  5377.  
  5378.  
  5379.  
  5380.  
  5381.  
  5382. 1 to go the gun malfunctioning?
  5383.  
  5384. 2 A Yes.
  5385.  
  5386. 3 Q Okay. Now, what is your memory as relates to
  5387.  
  5388. 4 this gun malfunctioning?
  5389.  
  5390. 5 A I remember seeing sergeant bat tap the gun a
  5391.  
  5392. 6 couple of times and appear to me that he was trying to
  5393.  
  5394. 7 clear a jammed gun.
  5395.  
  5396. 8 Q Meaning discharge a cartridge from out of the
  5397.  
  5398. 9 gun?
  5399.  
  5400. 10 A Yes.
  5401.  
  5402. 11 Q Unexpended cartridge out of the gun?
  5403.  
  5404. 12 A Yes.
  5405.  
  5406. 13 Q Do you recall how much time it took for
  5407.  
  5408. 14 sergeant bat to do that?
  5409.  
  5410. 15 A I don't recall.
  5411.  
  5412. 16 Q Okay. Now, so is it fair so say and you can
  5413.  
  5414. 17 correct me if I'm wrong that your memory is that there
  5415.  
  5416. 18 were two shots and then movements that you associate
  5417.  
  5418. 19 with gun malfunction and then additional shots?
  5419.  
  5420. 20 A Correct.
  5421.  
  5422. 21 Q Okay. Is it pause between the first two shot
  5423.  
  5424. 22 and say the additional shots that came out?
  5425.  
  5426. 23 A From my view I believe endless.
  5427.  
  5428. 24 Q Okay. And from your view do you have a
  5429.  
  5430. 25 expense as to how long that pause was?
  5431. 97
  5432.  
  5433.  
  5434.  
  5435.  
  5436.  
  5437.  
  5438. 1 ATTORNEY4: Objection asked and answered.
  5439.  
  5440. 2 THE WITNESS: Are you talking about between
  5441.  
  5442. 3 the last round of the two shorts in comparison to when
  5443.  
  5444. 4 the additional shot occurred.
  5445.  
  5446. 5 MR. POINTERQ. Yes?
  5447.  
  5448. 6 A I would say between five and ten seconds
  5449.  
  5450. 7 estimate.
  5451.  
  5452. 8 Q Okay. Now, when the first two shots were
  5453.  
  5454. 9 fired and when you heard this noise what was during the
  5455.  
  5456. 10 marriage helium's body position?
  5457.  
  5458. 11 A I don't know I can't recall.
  5459.  
  5460. 12 Q E example what was your body position another
  5461.  
  5462. 13 that point in time?
  5463.  
  5464. 14 A I was facing when I heard the shots I was in
  5465.  
  5466. 15 the middle of trying to get out of the car so I was
  5467.  
  5468. 16 actually when I heard the first two shots my cheek was
  5469.  
  5470. 17 probably to where Mr. Brown would have been my hands
  5471.  
  5472. 18 were up in the air like this trying to get out of the
  5473.  
  5474. 19 car and exit.
  5475.  
  5476. 20 Q Your checks you were touching your left cheek?
  5477.  
  5478. 21 A Yes.
  5479.  
  5480. 22 Q Mr. Brown would have been do you mean that you
  5481.  
  5482. 23 guys were clique to cheek something else?
  5483.  
  5484. 24 A I'm trying to describe where my face was
  5485.  
  5486. 25 pointed in the direction and if the car door was open I
  5487. 98
  5488.  
  5489.  
  5490.  
  5491.  
  5492.  
  5493.  
  5494. 1 could see the top part of I was looking just above the
  5495.  
  5496. 2 top part of the door and there's a space in between
  5497.  
  5498. 3 when obviously you could see the outer part you know
  5499.  
  5500. 4 the atmosphere but I remember seeing the top part of
  5501.  
  5502. 5 the door.
  5503.  
  5504. 6 Q Okay. So when you heard the shots were you
  5505.  
  5506. 7 still seated in the passenger seat?
  5507.  
  5508. 8 A Technically yes.
  5509.  
  5510. 9 Q Okay. Your buttocks in the seat?
  5511.  
  5512. 10 A Yes.
  5513.  
  5514. 11 Q Okay. And but you however trying to get out
  5515.  
  5516. 12 of the get out of the car at that time.
  5517.  
  5518. 13 A Yes.
  5519.  
  5520. 14 Q Okay. And Mr. Brown do you recall which
  5521.  
  5522. 15 direction his back was facing was it still towards the
  5523.  
  5524. 16 driver side door towards the front window the passenger
  5525.  
  5526. 17 door?
  5527.  
  5528. 18 A I don't know.
  5529.  
  5530. 19 Q Do you have any sense?
  5531.  
  5532. 20 A No.
  5533.  
  5534. 21 Q Okay. When the first when those for two shot
  5535.  
  5536. 22 range out did you have a sense as to whether or not
  5537.  
  5538. 23 Mr. Brown was hit?
  5539.  
  5540. 24 A Not at that time.
  5541.  
  5542. 25 Q At some later point in time you had sense
  5543. 99
  5544.  
  5545.  
  5546.  
  5547.  
  5548.  
  5549.  
  5550. 1 Mr. Brown was hit?
  5551.  
  5552. 2 A Yes.
  5553.  
  5554. 3 Q When the first two shots range out you
  5555.  
  5556. 4 testified that you were trying to get out of the car?
  5557.  
  5558. 5 A Yes.
  5559.  
  5560. 6 Q And that there was a pause of maybe five to
  5561.  
  5562. 7 ten seconds correct?
  5563.  
  5564. 8 ATTORNEY2: Well, I think your question is he
  5565.  
  5566. 9 said there was a pause his estimated pause of five to
  5567.  
  5568. 10 ten seconds between hearing the last of the first two
  5569.  
  5570. 11 shoulder pains and then hearing the next shot which
  5571.  
  5572. 12 would be shot number three.
  5573.  
  5574. 13 MR. POINTER: Is that true.
  5575.  
  5576. 14 A Yes.
  5577.  
  5578. 15 Q Greta two and five to second correct?
  5579.  
  5580. 16 A Correct.
  5581.  
  5582. 17 Q All right. And when that third shot range out
  5583.  
  5584. 18 where were you remember well, the third shot was a
  5585.  
  5586. 19 misfire.
  5587.  
  5588. 20 Q Okay. I'm sorry go ahead?
  5589.  
  5590. 21 A So I was so then cue repeat the question.
  5591.  
  5592. 22 Q Sure. Let's make sure we're clear so there
  5593.  
  5594. 23 was two shots you were still in the car seated in the
  5595.  
  5596. 24 car correct?
  5597.  
  5598. 25 A Correct.
  5599. 100
  5600.  
  5601.  
  5602.  
  5603.  
  5604.  
  5605.  
  5606. 1 Q All right. There was a third shot although
  5607.  
  5608. 2 that was a misfire correct?
  5609.  
  5610. 3 A Correct.
  5611.  
  5612. 4 Q Then in between this second and the
  5613.  
  5614. 5 fourth shot bat to you clear ago misfire?
  5615.  
  5616. 6 A That's correct.
  5617.  
  5618. 7 Q All right the time frame between you can tell
  5619.  
  5620. 8 me correct me if I'm wrong between the a third and
  5621.  
  5622. 9 fourth shot five to second?
  5623.  
  5624. 10 ATTORNEY2: That's not what he said.
  5625.  
  5626. 11 MR. POINTER: I'm confuse I want to know.
  5627.  
  5628. 12 ATTORNEY2: I don't.
  5629.  
  5630. 13 MR. POINTER: He's the one testifying.
  5631.  
  5632. 14 ATTORNEY2: No.
  5633.  
  5634. 15 ATTORNEY3: The question is that what the
  5635.  
  5636. 16 witness is.
  5637.  
  5638. 17 ATTORNEY2: The o.k. is mischaracterization
  5639.  
  5640. 18 the witness said.
  5641.  
  5642. 19 ATTORNEY3: I'm asking what he said.
  5643.  
  5644. 20 ATTORNEY2: 5 to ten seconds between hearing
  5645.  
  5646. 21 the two sets of some of thes.
  5647.  
  5648. 22 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
  5649.  
  5650. 23 MR. POINTERQ. What's I don't know what's
  5651.  
  5652. 24 correct now?
  5653.  
  5654. 25 A So it's after the first after the second shot.
  5655. 101
  5656.  
  5657.  
  5658.  
  5659.  
  5660.  
  5661.  
  5662. 1 Q Okay?
  5663.  
  5664. 2 A They heard I would estimate about five to ten
  5665.  
  5666. 3 seconds before another shot I believe was heard.
  5667.  
  5668. 4 Q Okay. So between the second and fourth five
  5669.  
  5670. 5 to ten seconds that true?
  5671.  
  5672. 6 A I believe so yes.
  5673.  
  5674. 7 Q Okay. So say it another way there's?
  5675.  
  5676. 8 ATTORNEY2: I appreciate your question but
  5677.  
  5678. 9 there will be the guyty in the record maying there was
  5679.  
  5680. 10 a five to ten second pause between him hearing the
  5681.  
  5682. 11 second shot and hearing what we came to the third
  5683.  
  5684. 12 expended shot I think we're we understand there but
  5685.  
  5686. 13 when you using this third shot in two different ways
  5687.  
  5688. 14 misfire which he obviously doesn't here because doesn't
  5689.  
  5690. 15 go off and then what becomes.
  5691.  
  5692. 16 ATTORNEY3: Click.
  5693.  
  5694. 17 ATTORNEY2: He didn't say he heard anything.
  5695.  
  5696. 18 ATTORNEY3: I'm saying he could have.
  5697.  
  5698. 19 MR. POINTERQ. We're going to listen my
  5699.  
  5700. 20 question listen depot no question about it witness
  5701.  
  5702. 21 answer settle all right there?
  5703.  
  5704. 22 A Right.
  5705.  
  5706. 23 Q So question all right. Is it fair to say that
  5707.  
  5708. 24 between the second shot and the noise that you
  5709.  
  5710. 25 associated with the fourth shot there was a five to ten
  5711. 102
  5712.  
  5713.  
  5714.  
  5715.  
  5716.  
  5717.  
  5718. 1 second pause?
  5719.  
  5720. 2 A Yes.
  5721.  
  5722. 3 Q Thank you. Now, how many shots if you know
  5723.  
  5724. 4 range out after you heard the fourth shot?
  5725.  
  5726. 5 A I honestly don't know.
  5727.  
  5728. 6 Q Okay. Had you made any observations of the
  5729.  
  5730. 7 marriage helium brown after the second shot?
  5731.  
  5732. 8 A Yes.
  5733.  
  5734. 9 Q Okay. What was that observation?
  5735.  
  5736. 10 A I saw his left shoulder part of his arm just
  5737.  
  5738. 11 outside of the seat I saw his side of his head facing
  5739.  
  5740. 12 the driver's door and he was back against the seat.
  5741.  
  5742. 13 Q Okay. You say his left shoulder closest to
  5743.  
  5744. 14 the passenger side is that true?
  5745.  
  5746. 15 A Closest to the driver's side.
  5747.  
  5748. 16 Q I'm sorry okay so when you say left shoulder
  5749.  
  5750. 17 closest to the driver side?
  5751.  
  5752. 18 A Yeah kind of almost in a con sol you know in
  5753.  
  5754. 19 between the driver's seat and the passenger seat.
  5755.  
  5756. 20 Q Okay. And you said he was looking face was
  5757.  
  5758. 21 looking in driver's side is that true?
  5759.  
  5760. 22 A Yes.
  5761.  
  5762. 23 Q Okay. And was he holding anything in his
  5763.  
  5764. 24 hands at that point in time?
  5765.  
  5766. 25 A I don't know.
  5767. 103
  5768.  
  5769.  
  5770.  
  5771.  
  5772.  
  5773.  
  5774. 1 Q Was he doing anything with his hands at that
  5775.  
  5776. 2 point in time?
  5777.  
  5778. 3 A I don't know.
  5779.  
  5780. 4 Q Okay. Did it appear that he was reaching for
  5781.  
  5782. 5 anything at that point in time?
  5783.  
  5784. 6 A I couldn't see his hands if he was I can only
  5785.  
  5786. 7 see his arm just outside of the seat just like this.
  5787.  
  5788. 8 Q Okay. And where were you at that time that
  5789.  
  5790. 9 point?
  5791.  
  5792. 10 A I was in the rear of the car looking through
  5793.  
  5794. 11 the rear window.
  5795.  
  5796. 12 ATTORNEY3: In the rear of the car.
  5797.  
  5798. 13 A I was directorially behind the vehicle.
  5799.  
  5800. 14 ATTORNEY3: You were not there can't in the
  5801.  
  5802. 15 backseat.
  5803.  
  5804. 16 A No.
  5805.  
  5806. 17 MR. POINTERQ. Observation outside of the car
  5807.  
  5808. 18 correct?
  5809.  
  5810. 19 A Yes.
  5811.  
  5812. 20 Q And to the rear of where he was seated in the
  5813.  
  5814. 21 puppying seat?
  5815.  
  5816. 22 A Correct.
  5817.  
  5818. 23 Q And your were looking through the back window
  5819.  
  5820. 24 into the car where you could see his shoulder doing
  5821.  
  5822. 25 what you just described is that true?
  5823. 104
  5824.  
  5825.  
  5826.  
  5827.  
  5828.  
  5829.  
  5830. 1 A Correct.
  5831.  
  5832. 2 Q Okay. And after you made the observation
  5833.  
  5834. 3 that's when you saw the observe heard so I understand
  5835.  
  5836. 4 associated additional shots is that true?
  5837.  
  5838. 5 A Correct.
  5839.  
  5840. 6 Q Okay. When you made that observation of
  5841.  
  5842. 7 Mr. Brown being is it fair to say that he was again
  5843.  
  5844. 8 passenger seat when you made this observation?
  5845.  
  5846. 9 A I believe he was.
  5847.  
  5848. 10 Q So when you made the observation of Mr. Brown
  5849.  
  5850. 11 being against the passenger seat did you form the
  5851.  
  5852. 12 opinion that he was in capacity stated?
  5853.  
  5854. 13 ATTORNEY4: I'm sorry could you repeat that
  5855.  
  5856. 14 please.
  5857.  
  5858. 15 ATTORNEY4: Objection requires the witness to
  5859.  
  5860. 16 speculate.
  5861.  
  5862. 17 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  5863.  
  5864. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Did you think Mr. Brown
  5865.  
  5866. 19 was still at risk at that point in time?
  5867.  
  5868. 20 A No.
  5869.  
  5870. 21 ATTORNEY4: Objection require it is witness to
  5871.  
  5872. 22 peck lite.
  5873.  
  5874. 23 MR. POINTERQ. These are your thoughts?
  5875.  
  5876. 24 A These are strictly my thoughts.
  5877.  
  5878. 25 Q Okay. And when you heard the additional shots
  5879. 105
  5880.  
  5881.  
  5882.  
  5883.  
  5884.  
  5885.  
  5886. 1 ring out did Mr. Brown's body position change after the
  5887.  
  5888. 2 shots were completed.
  5889.  
  5890. 3 A I didn't see.
  5891.  
  5892. 4 Q Is that when you left from the position being
  5893.  
  5894. 5 as you described to the rear and outside of the car
  5895.  
  5896. 6 looking through the back window and starting
  5897.  
  5898. 7 strangulating?
  5899.  
  5900. 8 A I was lost.
  5901.  
  5902. 9 Q That's fine. I don't like the question aisle
  5903.  
  5904. 10 withdraw the question I'm trying to figure out where
  5905.  
  5906. 11 you were what you did I should say what you did after
  5907.  
  5908. 12 you made that observation of Mr. Brown being against
  5909.  
  5910. 13 the seat and appearing to you to be incapacity stated?
  5911.  
  5912. 14 A That before the shot or after the shot.
  5913.  
  5914. 15 Q Good question when you heard the initial shots
  5915.  
  5916. 16 come where were you at?
  5917.  
  5918. 17 A I was directorially behind the vehicle in an
  5919.  
  5920. 18 area where I could see the driver's I mean the
  5921.  
  5922. 19 passenger door and in an area to where I thought I
  5923.  
  5924. 20 would be best triangulated with sergeant bat.
  5925.  
  5926. 21 Q So is it fair to say that you were moving
  5927.  
  5928. 22 behind the car like the trunk area of the car moving
  5929.  
  5930. 23 towards officer bat?
  5931.  
  5932. 24 A I wouldn't say towards him bawling because I
  5933.  
  5934. 25 wanted to look at the passenger door area.
  5935. 106
  5936.  
  5937.  
  5938.  
  5939.  
  5940.  
  5941.  
  5942. 1 Q Okay.
  5943.  
  5944. 2 A At the same time so I tried to get as close to
  5945.  
  5946. 3 sergeant bat as possible with keeping my view on the
  5947.  
  5948. 4 passenger door.
  5949.  
  5950. 5 Q Okay. As you're moving from the position in a
  5951.  
  5952. 6 you describe being to the rear of Mr. Brown and the
  5953.  
  5954. 7 passenger seat when you were looking through the back
  5955.  
  5956. 8 window from that position into the position that you
  5957.  
  5958. 9 ultimately came to rest in when you were trying to
  5959.  
  5960. 10 training angle late that when the shots were fired?
  5961.  
  5962. 11 A I miss a point go over it again.
  5963.  
  5964. 12 Q That's fine?
  5965.  
  5966. 13 A I'm ruminating over this stuff.
  5967.  
  5968. 14 Q It's a lot to think about not a problem?
  5969.  
  5970. 15 A Yeah.
  5971.  
  5972. 16 Q Not a problem. Simply put I'm trying to
  5973.  
  5974. 17 figure out where you were at when you heard the
  5975.  
  5976. 18 additional spots become fired?
  5977.  
  5978. 19 A Behind the hod right side I would probably say
  5979.  
  5980. 20 in between the if you were to draw a line separating
  5981.  
  5982. 21 the trunk from this right side left of the down the
  5983.  
  5984. 22 middle I would say middle of the right side of the
  5985.  
  5986. 23 trunk.
  5987.  
  5988. 24 Q Middle of the right side meaning from by my
  5989.  
  5990. 25 hair you with tick trunk?
  5991. 107
  5992.  
  5993.  
  5994.  
  5995.  
  5996.  
  5997.  
  5998. 1 A Offset to the right.
  5999.  
  6000. 2 Q So passenger side of the car?
  6001.  
  6002. 3 A Exactly.
  6003.  
  6004. 4 Q Okay. And but you were moving towards the
  6005.  
  6006. 5 driver side of the car is that true?
  6007.  
  6008. 6 A Not at that time.
  6009.  
  6010. 7 Q Okay. So you weren't walking you were
  6011.  
  6012. 8 actually stationary?
  6013.  
  6014. 9 A Yes.
  6015.  
  6016. 10 Q Okay. When you heard the additional shots
  6017.  
  6018. 11 ring out did you here sergeant bat say anything prior
  6019.  
  6020. 12 to discharging his weapon?
  6021.  
  6022. 13 A Yes.
  6023.  
  6024. 14 Q What did he say?
  6025.  
  6026. 15 A Fuck fuck.
  6027.  
  6028. 16 Q So you heard fuck fuck and then additional
  6029.  
  6030. 17 shots?
  6031.  
  6032. 18 A Yes.
  6033.  
  6034. 19 Q Okay do you know what he was refer to go?
  6035.  
  6036. 20 A I think to me.
  6037.  
  6038. 21 ATTORNEY4: Objection requires the witness to
  6039.  
  6040. 22 speculate.
  6041.  
  6042. 23 ATTORNEY2: Speculation.
  6043.  
  6044. 24 MR. POINTERQ. What did you do?
  6045.  
  6046. 25 ATTORNEY2: Same objection retires the witness
  6047. 108
  6048.  
  6049.  
  6050.  
  6051.  
  6052.  
  6053.  
  6054. 1 to speculate.
  6055.  
  6056. 2 MR. POINTERQ. What did they mean to you?
  6057.  
  6058. 3 ATTORNEY2: Answer him.
  6059.  
  6060. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay I took that as he was
  6061.  
  6062. 5 frustrated with his gun.
  6063.  
  6064. 6 MR. POINTERQ. All right. Now, when you saw
  6065.  
  6066. 7 these additional shots did it appear to you that those
  6067.  
  6068. 8 additional shots were impacting Mr. Brown?
  6069.  
  6070. 9 ATTORNEY2: Well, we do want you laid a
  6071.  
  6072. 10 foundation that he could see them strike Mr. Brown so
  6073.  
  6074. 11 that he would know that but go ahead read the question.
  6075.  
  6076. 12 ATTORNEY4: Retire the witness to guess or
  6077.  
  6078. 13 speculate.
  6079.  
  6080. 14 MR. POINTERQ. Withdraw the question did you
  6081.  
  6082. 15 see if any of those bullets hit Mr. Brown?
  6083.  
  6084. 16 A No.
  6085.  
  6086. 17 Q Did they appear to you that they hit
  6087.  
  6088. 18 Mr. Brown?
  6089.  
  6090. 19 ATTORNEY3: Again your talking about the
  6091.  
  6092. 20 second.
  6093.  
  6094. 21 A I don't know.
  6095.  
  6096. 22 MR. POINTERQ. Okay did you see body move in
  6097.  
  6098. 23 conjunction with those shots Norfolk.
  6099.  
  6100. 24 Q Sergeant bat change his position when he
  6101.  
  6102. 25 discharged the second volley of shot.
  6103. 109
  6104.  
  6105.  
  6106.  
  6107.  
  6108.  
  6109.  
  6110. 1 Q So as far as you know he was still with his
  6111.  
  6112. 2 gun in the car point I mean strike that what was his
  6113.  
  6114. 3 position a you saw it to be when he second volley of
  6115.  
  6116. 4 shots?
  6117.  
  6118. 5 A In the same position that he was the whole
  6119.  
  6120. 6 time and right next to the driver's door.
  6121.  
  6122. 7 Q Okay. Do you know if his gun was extended to
  6123.  
  6124. 8 the cabin of the car?
  6125.  
  6126. 9 A I don't know.
  6127.  
  6128. 10 Q Okay. Now, you described Mr. Brown's body
  6129.  
  6130. 11 hunched over?
  6131.  
  6132. 12 ATTORNEY4: At what time.
  6133.  
  6134. 13 ATTORNEY2: You mean at some point.
  6135.  
  6136. 14 MR. POINTER: After the shot do you recall
  6137.  
  6138. 15 seeing Mr. Brown's body hunched over.
  6139.  
  6140. 16 ATTORNEY4: Objection the question is vague
  6141.  
  6142. 17 and ambiguous did you ask if he saw some point after
  6143.  
  6144. 18 the first two shots fired or second fires were fired.
  6145.  
  6146. 19 MR. POINTERQ. Do you even recall seeing his
  6147.  
  6148. 20 body hunched over?
  6149.  
  6150. 21 A I don't remember that statement sounds
  6151.  
  6152. 22 familiar something I might have said but as I recall
  6153.  
  6154. 23 here today I don't remember being hunched over.
  6155.  
  6156. 24 Q Okay. Now, base upon your observations did it
  6157.  
  6158. 25 appear necessary for sergeant bat to fire the secretary
  6159. 110
  6160.  
  6161.  
  6162.  
  6163.  
  6164.  
  6165.  
  6166. 1 bollly of shots?
  6167.  
  6168. 2 ATTORNEY2: Well that calls for speculation
  6169.  
  6170. 3 also arguably ultimate fact which not permit today
  6171.  
  6172. 4 instruct him not the to answer that question
  6173.  
  6174. 5 argumentative.
  6175.  
  6176. 6 MR. POINTER: And I'm going to struck you
  6177.  
  6178. 7 sergeant asking you about your impression okay your
  6179.  
  6180. 8 watch commander correct.
  6181.  
  6182. 9 A Yes.
  6183.  
  6184. 10 Q You gone through training through the academy
  6185.  
  6186. 11 correct?
  6187.  
  6188. 12 A Yes.
  6189.  
  6190. 13 Q Supervisory officer rhetoric you and you have
  6191.  
  6192. 14 some responsibility as relates to investigating use of
  6193.  
  6194. 15 force correct?
  6195.  
  6196. 16 A Yes.
  6197.  
  6198. 17 Q You have been trained in officer involved
  6199.  
  6200. 18 shootings?
  6201.  
  6202. 19 A Yes.
  6203.  
  6204. 20 Q Present at the seen?
  6205.  
  6206. 21 A Yes.
  6207.  
  6208. 22 Q You dwelt this person who was shot correct?
  6209.  
  6210. 23 A Yes.
  6211.  
  6212. 24 Q You actually said shoot him?
  6213.  
  6214. 25 A Yes.
  6215. 111
  6216.  
  6217.  
  6218.  
  6219.  
  6220.  
  6221.  
  6222. 1 Q Now you give that you told bat that base upon
  6223.  
  6224. 2 your observation that you were feeling at that point in
  6225.  
  6226. 3 time?
  6227.  
  6228. 4 A Yes.
  6229.  
  6230. 5 Q So now I'm asking you heard this second bollly
  6231.  
  6232. 6 of shots what was your impression what was your belief
  6233.  
  6234. 7 as relates bollly of shots were they necessary?
  6235.  
  6236. 8 ATTORNEY4: Objection his brief is irrelevant.
  6237.  
  6238. 9 Q No tell him you can talk to talk to me?
  6239.  
  6240. 10 ATTORNEY2: Mr. Instruct you not to answer
  6241.  
  6242. 11 that for all radio previous refer R reasons on the
  6243.  
  6244. 12 rock.
  6245.  
  6246. 13 ATTORNEY4: add my objection to that his
  6247.  
  6248. 14 brief is not relevant in a deposition he's asking for
  6249.  
  6250. 15 expert opinion and sergeant bell lieu is a has not been
  6251.  
  6252. 16 December close opinion would have no relevance ins in
  6253.  
  6254. 17 case didn't see what bat was doing what bat saw.
  6255.  
  6256. 18 MR. POINTER: Are those legal o.k.s because
  6257.  
  6258. 19 I'm hearing a bunch of talk.
  6259.  
  6260. 20 MR. POINTERQ. What was Mr. Brown doing from
  6261.  
  6262. 21 your observations that justify is second set of shots?
  6263.  
  6264. 22 ATTORNEY2: That's the same question and
  6265.  
  6266. 23 different way he's already told you that he doesn't
  6267.  
  6268. 24 know what Mr. Brown was doing you're notling he
  6269.  
  6270. 25 can'ting justification.
  6271. 112
  6272.  
  6273.  
  6274.  
  6275.  
  6276.  
  6277.  
  6278. 1 Q What was Mr. Big trouble doing when the second
  6279.  
  6280. 2 bollly of shots went out?
  6281.  
  6282. 3 A I honestly couldn't tell you what he was
  6283.  
  6284. 4 doing.
  6285.  
  6286. 5 Q Okay. What position was his body in if any if
  6287.  
  6288. 6 you know on the second bollly of shots ring out?
  6289.  
  6290. 7 A I don't know.
  6291.  
  6292. 8 Q Okay. So you weren't looking when the second
  6293.  
  6294. 9 bollly of shots went out is that fair?
  6295.  
  6296. 10 A I can shaken it this way.
  6297.  
  6298. 11 Q Please?
  6299.  
  6300. 12 A When I heard fuck fuck and the manipulation of
  6301.  
  6302. 13 the weapon redirected from brown I don't know what
  6303.  
  6304. 14 brown was doing by the time I was concentrating on him
  6305.  
  6306. 15 by the time I looked at sergeant bat I honestly can't
  6307.  
  6308. 16 tell you that I can honestly tell you beforehand I did
  6309.  
  6310. 17 not see him move.
  6311.  
  6312. 18 Q Okay.
  6313.  
  6314. 19 A That's the best thing I can tell you
  6315.  
  6316. 20 Mr. Pointer.
  6317.  
  6318. 21 Q So after you heard these volley of shots come
  6319.  
  6320. 22 out did you look at brown's body again?
  6321.  
  6322. 23 A Yes.
  6323.  
  6324. 24 Q Okay. What position was his body in at that
  6325.  
  6326. 25 point?
  6327. 113
  6328.  
  6329.  
  6330.  
  6331.  
  6332.  
  6333.  
  6334. 1 A Fairly similar to the position I saw him in.
  6335.  
  6336. 2 Q When you say fairly similar was there any
  6337.  
  6338. 3 distinction body was when you last sue it prior to the
  6339.  
  6340. 4 second volley of shots co-meaning after he was
  6341.  
  6342. 5 initially hit with the first two shots?
  6343.  
  6344. 6 A It was a little behind school district
  6345.  
  6346. 7 property in what way.
  6347.  
  6348. 8 A It was maybe that word hunched over was use
  6349.  
  6350. 9 more appropriately at that time when he was a little
  6351.  
  6352. 10 bit leaning over more across the main of the gear shift
  6353.  
  6354. 11 and the emergency break but still against the sheet.
  6355.  
  6356. 12 Q So before the second volley in between the
  6357.  
  6358. 13 first volley of shots and up to the second volley of
  6359.  
  6360. 14 shots you has not seen Mr. Brown move in the way is
  6361.  
  6362. 15 that true?
  6363.  
  6364. 16 A I did not see him.
  6365.  
  6366. 17 Q Okay. Nor had you seen sergeant bat -- in
  6367.  
  6368. 18 between the first volley of shots and the fuck fuck you
  6369.  
  6370. 19 didn't here him directing anything to Mr. Brown meaning
  6371.  
  6372. 20 don't move or anything along those lines that true?
  6373.  
  6374. 21 A That's true.
  6375.  
  6376. 22 Q Okay. And when you were outside the car to
  6377.  
  6378. 23 the rear as you have described and you saw Mr. Brown in
  6379.  
  6380. 24 the passenger seat and this is after the first volley
  6381.  
  6382. 25 of shots and in between strike that the before the
  6383. 114
  6384.  
  6385.  
  6386.  
  6387.  
  6388.  
  6389.  
  6390. 1 second volley of shots you hasn't fired your gun
  6391.  
  6392. 2 correct?
  6393.  
  6394. 3 A No.
  6395.  
  6396. 4 Q Although you had your gun out isn't that true,
  6397.  
  6398. 5 that's a true.
  6399.  
  6400. 6 Q But you yourself elected?
  6401.  
  6402. 7 ATTORNEY2: I didn't here.
  6403.  
  6404. 8 Q You did not decide to fire your gun that's
  6405.  
  6406. 9 correct?
  6407.  
  6408. 10 A Correct.
  6409.  
  6410. 11 Q Why is that?
  6411.  
  6412. 12 A Just like I said my statement with OPD I
  6413.  
  6414. 13 didn't see a threat.
  6415.  
  6416. 14 MR. POINTER: Good time too take a lunch.
  6417.  
  6418. 15 ATTORNEY2: Sure.
  6419.  
  6420. 16 (Recess taken from 12:58 p.m. to 1:37
  6421.  
  6422. 17 p.m.)
  6423.  
  6424. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Welcome back sergeant?
  6425.  
  6426. 19 A Welcome back.
  6427.  
  6428. 20 ATTORNEY2: Welcome back cotter.
  6429.  
  6430. 21 MR. POINTER: There you go.
  6431.  
  6432. 22 MR. POINTERQ. All the same guidelines rules
  6433.  
  6434. 23 still in effect still under oath do you understand?
  6435.  
  6436. 24 A Yes.
  6437.  
  6438. 25 Q Okay. Going back to the incident so at some
  6439. 115
  6440.  
  6441.  
  6442.  
  6443.  
  6444.  
  6445.  
  6446. 1 point in time it did you see the driver out of the car?
  6447.  
  6448. 2 A Yes.
  6449.  
  6450. 3 Q After the shooting?
  6451.  
  6452. 4 A Yes.
  6453.  
  6454. 5 Q Can you describe how that took place?
  6455.  
  6456. 6 A I watch sergeant bat at a hurts student out of
  6457.  
  6458. 7 the car and I saw him open up the car door and have her
  6459.  
  6460. 8 I believe it was on her own exit the vehicle.
  6461.  
  6462. 9 Q Okay. Did you hear him when he ordered her
  6463.  
  6464. 10 out of the car words don't move or I'll shoot you?
  6465.  
  6466. 11 A I believe so.
  6467.  
  6468. 12 Q Do you know at what point in time that was at.
  6469.  
  6470. 13 When he proned her on the ground.
  6471.  
  6472. 14 Q While she feels on the ground?
  6473.  
  6474. 15 A Yes.
  6475.  
  6476. 16 Q Any point in time or racial epithets?
  6477.  
  6478. 17 A No.
  6479.  
  6480. 18 Q Okay. And she was ultimately placed in
  6481.  
  6482. 19 handcuffs?
  6483.  
  6484. 20 A Yes.
  6485.  
  6486. 21 Q Do you know who did that?
  6487.  
  6488. 22 A I did.
  6489.  
  6490. 23 Q Handcuffed control of her is that fair way of
  6491.  
  6492. 24 saying?
  6493.  
  6494. 25 A Yes.
  6495. 116
  6496.  
  6497.  
  6498.  
  6499.  
  6500.  
  6501.  
  6502. 1 Q Okay. And you had her stand up is that right?
  6503.  
  6504. 2 A Yes.
  6505.  
  6506. 3 Q And you walk her back up the hill past the
  6507.  
  6508. 4 Honda?
  6509.  
  6510. 5 A Correct.
  6511.  
  6512. 6 Q Okay. And you handed her off what did you do
  6513.  
  6514. 7 what did you ultimately do with her in terms of did you
  6515.  
  6516. 8 place her in patrol car CPR I give heifer to Rick moor.
  6517.  
  6518. 9 Q Was on seen?
  6519.  
  6520. 10 A Yes.
  6521.  
  6522. 11 Q Were are there any other officers on seep by
  6523.  
  6524. 12 the time you transferred control of Ms. Stew want to
  6525.  
  6526. 13 officer moor?
  6527.  
  6528. 14 A I think they were just pulling up.
  6529.  
  6530. 15 Q Okay. Now, I don't think I went through this
  6531.  
  6532. 16 you now the passenger to be during the marriage helium
  6533.  
  6534. 17 brown?
  6535.  
  6536. 18 A Want.
  6537.  
  6538. 19 A Correct.
  6539.  
  6540. 20 Q Familiar with either one?
  6541.  
  6542. 21 A No.
  6543.  
  6544. 22 Q Okay so you when you walked up on them and
  6545.  
  6546. 23 made contact with the passenger you didn't who he was,
  6547.  
  6548. 24 that's correct.
  6549.  
  6550. 25 Q Same for the driver correct?
  6551. 117
  6552.  
  6553.  
  6554.  
  6555.  
  6556.  
  6557.  
  6558. 1 A Correct.
  6559.  
  6560. 2 Q Nothing about their criminal histories if any
  6561.  
  6562. 3 correct?
  6563.  
  6564. 4 A Correct.
  6565.  
  6566. 5 Q All right. Now, after the shooting you wind
  6567.  
  6568. 6 up sending out some communications through dis-dispatch
  6569.  
  6570. 7 correct?
  6571.  
  6572. 8 A Correct.
  6573.  
  6574. 9 Q And the first communication to dispatch after
  6575.  
  6576. 10 the shooting was in fact the first communication that
  6577.  
  6578. 11 yourself that you had put out about this incident to
  6579.  
  6580. 12 dispatch correct?
  6581.  
  6582. 13 A Correct.
  6583.  
  6584. 14 Q All right. And you're not aware that officer
  6585.  
  6586. 15 sergeant bat had put out any communication to dispatch
  6587.  
  6588. 16 prior to you contacting dispatch after the shooting
  6589.  
  6590. 17 correct?
  6591.  
  6592. 18 A Correct.
  6593.  
  6594. 19 Q I was never aware.
  6595.  
  6596. 20 Q All right. In that initial call to dispatch
  6597.  
  6598. 21 you told dispatch that you had a K3 officer involved
  6599.  
  6600. 22 shooting?
  6601.  
  6602. 23 A Correct.
  6603.  
  6604. 24 Q He believe you also asked for emergency
  6605.  
  6606. 25 Medi-cal ponderosa to understand to the scene?
  6607. 118
  6608.  
  6609.  
  6610.  
  6611.  
  6612.  
  6613.  
  6614. 1 A 2 of them.
  6615.  
  6616. 2 Q 2 so so you?
  6617.  
  6618. 3 A Two ambulance.
  6619.  
  6620. 4 Q Request for two ambulance to respond to the
  6621.  
  6622. 5 scene?
  6623.  
  6624. 6 A Correct.
  6625.  
  6626. 7 Q Did you notified dispatch of your low day ago?
  6627.  
  6628. 8 A Yes.
  6629.  
  6630. 9 Q And you left yourself and sergeant bat?
  6631.  
  6632. 10 A I don't believe so.
  6633.  
  6634. 11 Q Okay. Did you notified dispatch of anything
  6635.  
  6636. 12 else from the scene as when you were made
  6637.  
  6638. 13 communications to dispatch?
  6639.  
  6640. 14 A I believe I just said we had had a K3 which is
  6641.  
  6642. 15 a general order for discharging of firearms that's a
  6643.  
  6644. 16 known phrase that means you know you discharge a weapon
  6645.  
  6646. 17 I notified them of K3 notified them to send two
  6647.  
  6648. 18 balances and then I requested estimated time of
  6649.  
  6650. 19 arrivals for those balances because I wanted to make
  6651.  
  6652. 20 sure that the dispatch rechecked with the balance drive
  6653.  
  6654. 21 to see what their location was usually when you do that
  6655.  
  6656. 22 it forces them to put out their location see on their
  6657.  
  6658. 23 own closer then dispatch that one.
  6659.  
  6660. 24 Q So you asked what the ETA was of medical
  6661.  
  6662. 25 response in an effort to get them there quicker is that
  6663. 119
  6664.  
  6665.  
  6666.  
  6667.  
  6668.  
  6669.  
  6670. 1 true?
  6671.  
  6672. 2 A Correct.
  6673.  
  6674. 3 Q Okay. And you requested to balance to respond
  6675.  
  6676. 4 to the seen one for Mr. Brown and one for potentially
  6677.  
  6678. 5 Ms. stew want you thought she maybe injury?
  6679.  
  6680. 6 A That's correct.
  6681.  
  6682. 7 Q And when you were putting out your initial
  6683.  
  6684. 8 call for dispatch where were you at that time that
  6685.  
  6686. 9 point in time what was your physical location?
  6687.  
  6688. 10 A Still behind the car.
  6689.  
  6690. 11 Q Shot putting out first call to dispatch?
  6691.  
  6692. 12 A Let me just take a moment to think about it
  6693.  
  6694. 13 real quick.
  6695.  
  6696. 14 Q Sure. Take your time.
  6697.  
  6698. 15 A I would estimate about five seconds.
  6699.  
  6700. 16 Q Okay. And in between the last shot being fire
  6701.  
  6702. 17 department and you printing out that communication to
  6703.  
  6704. 18 dispatch did you have you have any communication with
  6705.  
  6706. 19 sergeant bat?
  6707.  
  6708. 20 A Say that again.
  6709.  
  6710. 21 Q 5 second put out to call to spasm
  6711.  
  6712. 22 communication with sergeant bat?
  6713.  
  6714. 23 A No.
  6715.  
  6716. 24 Q He didn't say anything to you either?
  6717.  
  6718. 25 A No.
  6719. 120
  6720.  
  6721.  
  6722.  
  6723.  
  6724.  
  6725.  
  6726. 1 Q After you put out the call to dispatch what
  6727.  
  6728. 2 was the first thing that was said between yourself and
  6729.  
  6730. 3 sergeant bat?
  6731.  
  6732. 4 A I was trying to get his attention.
  6733.  
  6734. 5 Q Okay. And how did you do you get that?
  6735.  
  6736. 6 A I was saying bat bat.
  6737.  
  6738. 7 Q Okay. And was this after your dispatch your
  6739.  
  6740. 8 first call to dispatch?
  6741.  
  6742. 9 A Yes.
  6743.  
  6744. 10 Q Had you made any calls to dispatch prior to
  6745.  
  6746. 11 you trying to get his attention?
  6747.  
  6748. 12 A Just that just ordering the medical.
  6749.  
  6750. 13 Q Okay. And what other communication if any it
  6751.  
  6752. 14 did you have with sergeant bat while you were on the
  6753.  
  6754. 15 scene?
  6755.  
  6756. 16 A I communicated with him trying to get he has
  6757.  
  6758. 17 attention and then the last time I spoke with him I
  6759.  
  6760. 18 showed him where the gun was.
  6761.  
  6762. 19 Q Okay. can you describe how that conversation
  6763.  
  6764. 20 went?
  6765.  
  6766. 21 A I yelled bat bat because I wanted to see if he
  6767.  
  6768. 22 could come back to my lobbying 'cause he was in the
  6769.  
  6770. 23 proning stew want how the since there was a gun on the
  6771.  
  6772. 24 side pocket leave to be is a gun his attention to come
  6773.  
  6774. 25 back my way.
  6775. 121
  6776.  
  6777.  
  6778.  
  6779.  
  6780.  
  6781.  
  6782. 1 Q And when you say come back to rear point in
  6783.  
  6784. 2 time bring stew want from where she was at or about the
  6785.  
  6786. 3 driver's side door back away from the vehicle?
  6787.  
  6788. 4 A Yes.
  6789.  
  6790. 5 Q Okay. And did he do that?
  6791.  
  6792. 6 A No.
  6793.  
  6794. 7 Q Okay so has then what happened next in terms
  6795.  
  6796. 8 of your communication with sergeant bat?
  6797.  
  6798. 9 A I went up to him and I told him point your gun
  6799.  
  6800. 10 at brown I got her.
  6801.  
  6802. 11 Q So you told him to continue to train his gun
  6803.  
  6804. 12 at brown?
  6805.  
  6806. 13 A Yes handcuffs on Ms. Stew want.
  6807.  
  6808. 14 A Yes.
  6809.  
  6810. 15 Q Was she on the ground?
  6811.  
  6812. 16 A Yes.
  6813.  
  6814. 17 Q Handcuffs on her and what happened next?
  6815.  
  6816. 18 A I could be more specific.
  6817.  
  6818. 19 Q Yeah I'm trying to determine after the
  6819.  
  6820. 20 shooting you tried to initially attention in order for
  6821.  
  6822. 21 him to bring Ms. Stuart back away from the car?
  6823.  
  6824. 22 A Why he should be.
  6825.  
  6826. 23 Q He didn't do it do you think to where his
  6827.  
  6828. 24 location was?
  6829.  
  6830. 25 A Correct.
  6831. 122
  6832.  
  6833.  
  6834.  
  6835.  
  6836.  
  6837.  
  6838. 1 Q Frown done on the ground?
  6839.  
  6840. 2 A Yes.
  6841.  
  6842. 3 Q something about don't move or I'll shoot?
  6843.  
  6844. 4 ATTORNEY2: I'm sorry.
  6845.  
  6846. 5 MR. POINTERQ. He said something to the AOE
  6847.  
  6848. 6 electrons architect of words don't move or I'll shot?
  6849.  
  6850. 7 THE WITNESS: Correct.
  6851.  
  6852. 8 ATTORNEY2: Do you mean offer beLouisiana HRA
  6853.  
  6854. 9 see.
  6855.  
  6856. 10 MR. POINTERQ. I said sergeant bat?
  6857.  
  6858. 11 ATTORNEY2: Interrupt other way.
  6859.  
  6860. 12 MR. POINTERQ. How did you do you understand
  6861.  
  6862. 13 my question?
  6863.  
  6864. 14 A Sergeant bat has her on the ground don't move
  6865.  
  6866. 15 or I'll shoot.
  6867.  
  6868. 16 Q Yes.
  6869.  
  6870. 17 Q So that true?
  6871.  
  6872. 18 A Yes.
  6873.  
  6874. 19 Q Do you understand belieu is a bat was at
  6875.  
  6876. 20 acting?
  6877.  
  6878. 21 A Yes.
  6879.  
  6880. 22 Q So you get down there you take 7 o'clock you
  6881.  
  6882. 23 tell him hay I'm going to deal with Ms. Stew want
  6883.  
  6884. 24 should be yes.
  6885.  
  6886. 25 Q Train is firearm Mr. Brown?
  6887. 123
  6888.  
  6889.  
  6890.  
  6891.  
  6892.  
  6893.  
  6894. 1 A Correct.
  6895.  
  6896. 2 Q All right you then place handcuffs on
  6897.  
  6898. 3 Ms. Stuart true?
  6899.  
  6900. 4 A Yes.
  6901.  
  6902. 5 Q What if any conversation was between yourself
  6903.  
  6904. 6 and sergeant bat?
  6905.  
  6906. 7 A I said point your gun at brown because there's
  6907.  
  6908. 8 a gun -- a firearm in the door.
  6909.  
  6910. 9 Q And did sergeant bat say anything in response
  6911.  
  6912. 10 to that?
  6913.  
  6914. 11 A He said what and I said over there other there
  6915.  
  6916. 12 and so then point you gun at him he redirected pointed
  6917.  
  6918. 13 his gun at him.
  6919.  
  6920. 14 Q Is this the first time was that the first time
  6921.  
  6922. 15 that you mention today him there was a gun on the
  6923.  
  6924. 16 scene?
  6925.  
  6926. 17 A No previously gun gun I just didn't see gun
  6927.  
  6928. 18 door pocket.
  6929.  
  6930. 19 Q When you yelled gun gun anything that you
  6931.  
  6932. 20 interrupted him acknowledging what you had said?
  6933.  
  6934. 21 A Not that I recall.
  6935.  
  6936. 22 Q Okay. So when you now come over to where he
  6937.  
  6938. 23 is dealing with Ms. Stew want directing him to point
  6939.  
  6940. 24 his gun in the correction of Mr. Brown and you
  6941.  
  6942. 25 essentially telling him because there's a gun on the
  6943. 124
  6944.  
  6945.  
  6946.  
  6947.  
  6948.  
  6949.  
  6950. 1 side of the door this is the first time that he's
  6951.  
  6952. 2 acknowledge any way at least from your impression that
  6953.  
  6954. 3 there's a gun on the scene correct?
  6955.  
  6956. 4 ATTORNEY2: I don't think sergeant
  6957.  
  6958. 5 acknowledging anything so I think your question is
  6959.  
  6960. 6 mischaracterize saying of his prior testimony.
  6961.  
  6962. 7 ATTORNEY4: Yeah it does mis-station sergeant
  6963.  
  6964. 8 bell into is a's testimony.
  6965.  
  6966. 9 MR. POINTERQ. So denounce my question?
  6967.  
  6968. 10 A I believe so can you rephrase it please.
  6969.  
  6970. 11 MR. POINTERQ. Yeah. Now, you testified that
  6971.  
  6972. 12 prior to you walking over the where sergeant bad guy
  6973.  
  6974. 13 bat was dealing with Ms. Stuart that you said gun gun
  6975.  
  6976. 14 gun right?
  6977.  
  6978. 15 A Yes.
  6979.  
  6980. 16 Q And that was communication that you were
  6981.  
  6982. 17 directing towards sergeant bat correct?
  6983.  
  6984. 18 A Yes.
  6985.  
  6986. 19 Q In fact a gun on the seen correct?
  6987.  
  6988. 20 A All right when you said that did he do
  6989.  
  6990. 21 anything that you interrupt today him to be
  6991.  
  6992. 22 acknowledging what you were saying.
  6993.  
  6994. 23 A Not that part.
  6995.  
  6996. 24 Q Okay. And when you say that part not in
  6997.  
  6998. 25 acknowledge the gun on the seen right?
  6999. 125
  7000.  
  7001.  
  7002.  
  7003.  
  7004.  
  7005.  
  7006. 1 A Correct.
  7007.  
  7008. 2 Q Gun really where is it at?
  7009.  
  7010. 3 A I did not here any words to that effect.
  7011.  
  7012. 4 Q So the next time you and sergeant bat have a
  7013.  
  7014. 5 communings you physically walk over to where after?
  7015.  
  7016. 6 A Correct.
  7017.  
  7018. 7 Q And at that point in time you director him to
  7019.  
  7020. 8 point his weapon at Mr. Brown and essentially once
  7021.  
  7022. 9 again identify that there is a gun on the scene and
  7023.  
  7024. 10 this time you're more specific as to where the gun is
  7025.  
  7026. 11 at is that true?
  7027.  
  7028. 12 A That's correct.
  7029.  
  7030. 13 Q And he said what is that correct?
  7031.  
  7032. 14 A That's correct.
  7033.  
  7034. 15 Q And he said in a in response to you question
  7035.  
  7036. 16 correct?
  7037.  
  7038. 17 A Correct.
  7039.  
  7040. 18 ATTORNEY4: Objection misstates his testimony
  7041.  
  7042. 19 he didn't say yes to question.
  7043.  
  7044. 20 ATTORNEY2: It was a statement.
  7045.  
  7046. 21 MR. POINTERQ. Sony way point is sergeant bat
  7047.  
  7048. 22 says what is that true?
  7049.  
  7050. 23 A Yes.
  7051.  
  7052. 24 Q That's the first time he's verbal agreement
  7053.  
  7054. 25 pally acknowledge you when you have mentioned anything
  7055. 126
  7056.  
  7057.  
  7058.  
  7059.  
  7060.  
  7061.  
  7062. 1 about the gun correct.
  7063.  
  7064. 2 A Correct.
  7065.  
  7066. 3 Q All right. Now, he then trains his weapon on
  7067.  
  7068. 4 Mr. Brown is that true?
  7069.  
  7070. 5 A Correct.
  7071.  
  7072. 6 Q Okay. You take control of Ms. Strew wart
  7073.  
  7074. 7 true?
  7075.  
  7076. 8 A Yes.
  7077.  
  7078. 9 Q Okay. Then what takes place?
  7079.  
  7080. 10 A I walk Ms. Stuart up I walk her towards the
  7081.  
  7082. 11 police cars that were coming down the hill I remember
  7083.  
  7084. 12 officer more walking down the million and I directed
  7085.  
  7086. 13 him to take custody of Ms. Stuart.
  7087.  
  7088. 14 Q Now, going back to your interaction with
  7089.  
  7090. 15 sergeant bat over there at his location where he's
  7091.  
  7092. 16 standing above well he was standing above proned ton
  7093.  
  7094. 17 ground that true?
  7095.  
  7096. 18 A Excuse me.
  7097.  
  7098. 19 Q I'm sorry that was my fault take you second
  7099.  
  7100. 20 time there was a gun on the seen?
  7101.  
  7102. 21 A Okay.
  7103.  
  7104. 22 Q You have that in your mind?
  7105.  
  7106. 23 A Yes.
  7107.  
  7108. 24 Q Okay. And he said what in response true?
  7109.  
  7110. 25 A True.
  7111. 127
  7112.  
  7113.  
  7114.  
  7115.  
  7116.  
  7117.  
  7118. 1 Q Okay. Did he say anything else other than
  7119.  
  7120. 2 that when you essentially told him and pointed to where
  7121.  
  7122. 3 the gun was at did he say anything else?
  7123.  
  7124. 4 ATTORNEY2: Well, that's not what the witness
  7125.  
  7126. 5 has said the witness said he told bat the point his gun
  7127.  
  7128. 6 towards Mr. Brown because of there been a gun over in
  7129.  
  7130. 7 that location so I think you're question
  7131.  
  7132. 8 mischaracterization of his prior testimony.
  7133.  
  7134. 9 MR. POINTERQ. As he went a mis-cake ration
  7135.  
  7136. 10 after lunch the question is when you said told sergeant
  7137.  
  7138. 11 bat point weapon Mr. Brown did you or did grow not also
  7139.  
  7140. 12 words to the effect of where the gun was at ton scene?
  7141.  
  7142. 13 A Yes.
  7143.  
  7144. 14 Q So you told him to point weapon and you let
  7145.  
  7146. 15 him know where the gun was at is that true?
  7147.  
  7148. 16 A Yes.
  7149.  
  7150. 17 Q At that point in time was where?
  7151.  
  7152. 18 A In the pocket door.
  7153.  
  7154. 19 Q Words to the effect pocket door?
  7155.  
  7156. 20 A Yes.
  7157.  
  7158. 21 Q Okay. Now, did Mr. Did sergeant bat say
  7159.  
  7160. 22 anything other than what when you let him know that?
  7161.  
  7162. 23 A I'm pretty sure he said where and that was the
  7163.  
  7164. 24 only words he said.
  7165.  
  7166. 25 Q And from there you did you then again tell him
  7167. 128
  7168.  
  7169.  
  7170.  
  7171.  
  7172.  
  7173.  
  7174. 1 that it was in this location or say anything in
  7175.  
  7176. 2 response at all?
  7177.  
  7178. 3 A No I just told him where it was and point his
  7179.  
  7180. 4 gun at brown.
  7181.  
  7182. 5 Q Was that the second time essentially repeating
  7183.  
  7184. 6 yourself?
  7185.  
  7186. 7 A I don't think I repeated said it one time.
  7187.  
  7188. 8 Q E example so sergeant bat says what and where
  7189.  
  7190. 9 in response?
  7191.  
  7192. 10 A Yes.
  7193.  
  7194. 11 Q Okay. And then you then proceed to deal with
  7195.  
  7196. 12 Ms. Stuart that true?
  7197.  
  7198. 13 A Yes.
  7199.  
  7200. 14 Q Okay. And you walk her away from the car
  7201.  
  7202. 15 which is what you essentially directed sergeant bat to
  7203.  
  7204. 16 do auto previously?
  7205.  
  7206. 17 A Yes.
  7207.  
  7208. 18 Q As you're walking Ms. Brown Ms. Stuart away
  7209.  
  7210. 19 from the car what happened next?
  7211.  
  7212. 20 A I gave her to Miss Ms. Stuart to officer moor
  7213.  
  7214. 21 told him to take custody of her I release custody to
  7215.  
  7216. 22 her she's handcuffed he I saw him walk her up to his
  7217.  
  7218. 23 patrol car then I saw officer Matthews I believe she
  7219.  
  7220. 24 was jogging down the hill.
  7221.  
  7222. 25 Q Right?
  7223. 129
  7224.  
  7225.  
  7226.  
  7227.  
  7228.  
  7229.  
  7230. 1 A And I had just given Ms. Stuart to more
  7231.  
  7232. 2 officer more and then I told holly I said holly go give
  7233.  
  7234. 3 him CPR see if he knees help I said there's a gun in
  7235.  
  7236. 4 the Puckett door.
  7237.  
  7238. 5 Q And when you made those statements where was
  7239.  
  7240. 6 holly what's her last name?
  7241.  
  7242. 7 A Matthews.
  7243.  
  7244. 8 Q Where was officer Matthews in relation to you?
  7245.  
  7246. 9 A She was I think there was a car in between her
  7247.  
  7248. 10 I believe I walked up the hill to the sergeant bat
  7249.  
  7250. 11 cease vehicle off to officer more and holly Matthews is
  7251.  
  7252. 12 jogging down on the passenger of sergeant bat's
  7253.  
  7254. 13 vehicle.
  7255.  
  7256. 14 Q So as she's jogging down and there's a car
  7257.  
  7258. 15 between us yelling at her to go give him CPR make sure
  7259.  
  7260. 16 there's a gun.
  7261.  
  7262. 17 Q Passing you on the on side to side of the car?
  7263.  
  7264. 18 A Yes.
  7265.  
  7266. 19 Q And so she goes down what did you do you see
  7267.  
  7268. 20 her do, if anything, after you gave after you told her
  7269.  
  7270. 21 that information?
  7271.  
  7272. 22 A I believe I saw her take out her firearm and
  7273.  
  7274. 23 as she got closer to the vehicle I believe she had her
  7275.  
  7276. 24 gun kind of as she's scanning the car right side of the
  7277.  
  7278. 25 Honda.
  7279. 130
  7280.  
  7281.  
  7282.  
  7283.  
  7284.  
  7285.  
  7286. 1 Q Okay. And when you say the right side you
  7287.  
  7288. 2 mean the passenger side of the Honda?
  7289.  
  7290. 3 A Yes.
  7291.  
  7292. 4 Q Okay. And where was sergeant bat if you know?
  7293.  
  7294. 5 A He remained on the same location where I saw
  7295.  
  7296. 6 him last.
  7297.  
  7298. 7 A Which was the driver of the Honda.
  7299.  
  7300. 8 A Yes.
  7301.  
  7302. 9 Q Okay he still had his gun drawn?
  7303.  
  7304. 10 A Yes.
  7305.  
  7306. 11 Q Okay. And do you know if he had trained
  7307.  
  7308. 12 anything in particular?
  7309.  
  7310. 13 A No.
  7311.  
  7312. 14 Q So now you're further up the hill to the rear
  7313.  
  7314. 15 of the Honda correct?
  7315.  
  7316. 16 A Yes.
  7317.  
  7318. 17 Q Okay. And what it did you do next, if
  7319.  
  7320. 18 anything,?
  7321.  
  7322. 19 A I went back and talk to sergeant bat asked him
  7323.  
  7324. 20 if he was okay.
  7325.  
  7326. 21 A Okay.
  7327.  
  7328. 22 Q And what did he say in response?
  7329.  
  7330. 23 A I don't know acknowledge me I the travelers he
  7331.  
  7332. 24 said he was okay.
  7333.  
  7334. 25 Q All right. And did you director him to put
  7335. 131
  7336.  
  7337.  
  7338.  
  7339.  
  7340.  
  7341.  
  7342. 1 his firearm at that point in time?
  7343.  
  7344. 2 A Yes.
  7345.  
  7346. 3 Q What took place sergeant bat up to pin of the
  7347.  
  7348. 4 police cars and put him in a police car.
  7349.  
  7350. 5 Q Was that was it your thought essentially have
  7351.  
  7352. 6 his see the letter quested?
  7353.  
  7354. 7 A Right.
  7355.  
  7356. 8 Q Protocol should be right.
  7357.  
  7358. 9 Q Shooting separate and see the letter quest
  7359.  
  7360. 10 term effected CPR sure.
  7361.  
  7362. 11 Q All right. What took place, if anything,
  7363.  
  7364. 12 after you put him in the patrol car what did you do
  7365.  
  7366. 13 next?
  7367.  
  7368. 14 A I just tried to gain come people noticed Mr
  7369.  
  7370. 15 sure I was still in a state of shock that's all I just
  7371.  
  7372. 16 stayed there I watch officer Matthews around brown
  7373.  
  7374. 17 units started arriving and they just took over.
  7375.  
  7376. 18 Q And then where did you go when these units
  7377.  
  7378. 19 aradiod out on the scene?
  7379.  
  7380. 20 A Yes.
  7381.  
  7382. 21 Q People talking to you asking you questions?
  7383.  
  7384. 22 A No.
  7385.  
  7386. 23 Q Okay so is it fair to say dealing with the
  7387.  
  7388. 24 scene while you were standing away from the immediate
  7389.  
  7390. 25 area of the Honda?
  7391. 132
  7392.  
  7393.  
  7394.  
  7395.  
  7396.  
  7397.  
  7398. 1 A Yes.
  7399.  
  7400. 2 Q And where I'm trying to figure out how what
  7401.  
  7402. 3 took place between you kind of -- strike that what took
  7403.  
  7404. 4 place between when these units arrived you're gaining
  7405.  
  7406. 5 your come people STKR noticed Mr sure and when you went
  7407.  
  7408. 6 over and got bat's phone what took place during that
  7409.  
  7410. 7 point?
  7411.  
  7412. 8 A I maid contact with lieutenant rigs I think
  7413.  
  7414. 9 testifies sergeant or lieutenant but made contact with
  7415.  
  7416. 10 him he was the I believe he was the watch commander for
  7417.  
  7418. 11 OPD patrol so I met with him and he told me to sit
  7419.  
  7420. 12 tight and the technician coming around taking
  7421.  
  7422. 13 photographs she did pull me away we went to a spot.
  7423.  
  7424. 14 ATTORNEY3: Who is she.
  7425.  
  7426. 15 A Technician gooder 20 feet from the scene I
  7427.  
  7428. 16 think there was a light pole in the park area we went
  7429.  
  7430. 17 there to take pull pictures of me.
  7431.  
  7432. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Okay so is it fair to say you
  7433.  
  7434. 19 indecent the park?
  7435.  
  7436. 20 A No probably just in the still in the entrance.
  7437.  
  7438. 21 Q Okay. Now, the car was parked ton street
  7439.  
  7440. 22 correct?
  7441.  
  7442. 23 A Yes.
  7443.  
  7444. 24 Q And so was your patrol car right?
  7445.  
  7446. 25 A Yes.
  7447. 133
  7448.  
  7449.  
  7450.  
  7451.  
  7452.  
  7453.  
  7454. 1 Q So in terms of where ever you went to take the
  7455.  
  7456. 2 location of where you went to take these pictures where
  7457.  
  7458. 3 was it at in relation to the Honda?
  7459.  
  7460. 4 A I'd say probably 30 feet from the Honda.
  7461.  
  7462. 5 Q Okay. Now, the tech took the pictures
  7463.  
  7464. 6 correct, correct.
  7465.  
  7466. 7 Q Is that also when you showed the tech portion
  7467.  
  7468. 8 of your body which you attributed to saying they were
  7469.  
  7470. 9 injuries, I cannot.
  7471.  
  7472. 10 Q Okay. Then what took place?
  7473.  
  7474. 11 A Then I was put in the police car and after I
  7475.  
  7476. 12 was put in the police car that went down to homicide.
  7477.  
  7478. 13 Q Then you got down to homicide?
  7479.  
  7480. 14 A Correct.
  7481.  
  7482. 15 Q And when you got to homicide what did you do
  7483.  
  7484. 16 once you actually physically arrived at OPD what
  7485.  
  7486. 17 happened next?
  7487.  
  7488. 18 A I went into at a room I went to room on the
  7489.  
  7490. 19 second floor.
  7491.  
  7492. 20 A Okay.
  7493.  
  7494. 21 Q And that's where that's when course of events
  7495.  
  7496. 22 that you testified to earlier where you were contacted
  7497.  
  7498. 23 by chief say on the patio in a as well the
  7499.  
  7500. 24 superintendent correct?
  7501.  
  7502. 25 A Correct.
  7503. 134
  7504.  
  7505.  
  7506.  
  7507.  
  7508.  
  7509.  
  7510. 1 Q After having two conversations with them the
  7511.  
  7512. 2 school district's counsel came?
  7513.  
  7514. 3 A Correct.
  7515.  
  7516. 4 Q At some point after the school district's
  7517.  
  7518. 5 counsel came you then gave your statement to OPD
  7519.  
  7520. 6 homicide is that true?
  7521.  
  7522. 7 A Correct.
  7523.  
  7524. 8 Q Okay. Prior to giving your time to OPD
  7525.  
  7526. 9 homicide did you fill any pressure to tell the store in
  7527.  
  7528. 10 any particular way?
  7529.  
  7530. 11 A No.
  7531.  
  7532. 12 Q When you told your statement to OPD homicide
  7533.  
  7534. 13 do you have any other conversations with persons who
  7535.  
  7536. 14 were not attorneys?
  7537.  
  7538. 15 A Besides the interview.
  7539.  
  7540. 16 Q Yes, I mean prior to giving that interview?
  7541.  
  7542. 17 A No.
  7543.  
  7544. 18 Q Okay. So you gave your statement?
  7545.  
  7546. 19 A Correct.
  7547.  
  7548. 20 Q Okay. Which was recorded?
  7549.  
  7550. 21 A Correct.
  7551.  
  7552. 22 Q Okay. And after O your recorded statement
  7553.  
  7554. 23 what took place?
  7555.  
  7556. 24 A Captain ma dare Ross walked me outside.
  7557.  
  7558. 25 Q Were you tree to go further conversations that
  7559. 135
  7560.  
  7561.  
  7562.  
  7563.  
  7564.  
  7565.  
  7566. 1 were had or what?
  7567.  
  7568. 2 A He told me to he wanted to interview me again
  7569.  
  7570. 3 and again go do a walk through.
  7571.  
  7572. 4 Q Were you interviewed again but captain ma dare
  7573.  
  7574. 5 rows?
  7575.  
  7576. 6 A No.
  7577.  
  7578. 7 Q Were you taken to go do a walk through?
  7579.  
  7580. 8 A No.
  7581.  
  7582. 9 Q Was it your understanding that OPD follow up
  7583.  
  7584. 10 interview?
  7585.  
  7586. 11 A Yes.
  7587.  
  7588. 12 Q Was 89% your upsetting that OPD was going to
  7589.  
  7590. 13 do the walk through with you?
  7591.  
  7592. 14 A Yes.
  7593.  
  7594. 15 Q That's actually part of protocol officer
  7595.  
  7596. 16 involved shooting correct?
  7597.  
  7598. 17 ATTORNEY2: That place of birth spec on the
  7599.  
  7600. 18 part of this witness but if you know.
  7601.  
  7602. 19 THE WITNESS: I believe it is.
  7603.  
  7604. 20 MR. POINTERQ. Okay base upon your train and
  7605.  
  7606. 21 go experience right?
  7607.  
  7608. 22 A Yes.
  7609.  
  7610. 23 Q Okay. You've been involved in officer
  7611.  
  7612. 24 previously correct?
  7613.  
  7614. 25 A Yes.
  7615. 136
  7616.  
  7617.  
  7618.  
  7619.  
  7620.  
  7621.  
  7622. 1 Q And you during that incident you did a walk
  7623.  
  7624. 2 through correct?
  7625.  
  7626. 3 A I don't remember.
  7627.  
  7628. 4 Q Okay. So prior to you leaving -- OPD contact
  7629.  
  7630. 5 with any sergeant bat that night?
  7631.  
  7632. 6 A No.
  7633.  
  7634. 7 Q Okay. While you were there at OPD were you
  7635.  
  7636. 8 advise as to what sergeant bat was saying as it relates
  7637.  
  7638. 9 to his version of the events?
  7639.  
  7640. 10 A I have a question because there was an
  7641.  
  7642. 11 attorney-client.
  7643.  
  7644. 12 ATTORNEY2: Oh.
  7645.  
  7646. 13 MR. POINTER: Okay well, I don't.
  7647.  
  7648. 14 ATTORNEY2: Sorry I missed that.
  7649.  
  7650. 15 MR. POINTER: I don't want to know about that
  7651.  
  7652. 16 you know any conversation that were had with your
  7653.  
  7654. 17 self-and your attorney.
  7655.  
  7656. 18 THE WITNESS: It wasn't my attorney.
  7657.  
  7658. 19 ATTORNEY2: That's in the same capacity other
  7659.  
  7660. 20 than that is what Mr. Pointer is asking.
  7661.  
  7662. 21 MR. POINTERQ. Had with yourself Jackie minor
  7663.  
  7664. 22 being present and sergeant bat present who was not a
  7665.  
  7666. 23 school district employee?
  7667.  
  7668. 24 ATTORNEY2: I'm not aware that he.
  7669.  
  7670. 25 A No, I didn't speak sergeant bat.
  7671. 137
  7672.  
  7673.  
  7674.  
  7675.  
  7676.  
  7677.  
  7678. 1 MR. POINTERQ. Any conversation that were had
  7679.  
  7680. 2 where you were asked questions regarding or related to
  7681.  
  7682. 3 this incident other than those we already talk about
  7683.  
  7684. 4 and I mean setting aside with your attorney?
  7685.  
  7686. 5 A Are you still talking about at OPD.
  7687.  
  7688. 6 Q Yes we'll start there?
  7689.  
  7690. 7 A Okay so can you rephrase the question.
  7691.  
  7692. 8 Q Yes I'm trying to get the full range of all
  7693.  
  7694. 9 the conversation you had at OPD then aisle move brae
  7695.  
  7696. 10 that incident?
  7697.  
  7698. 11 A Okay.
  7699.  
  7700. 12 Q So again but talked about the once previously
  7701.  
  7702. 13 correct?
  7703.  
  7704. 14 A Yes.
  7705.  
  7706. 15 Q Do you recall those considerations?
  7707.  
  7708. 16 A Yes.
  7709.  
  7710. 17 Q Okay. You just Meganed that you had one
  7711.  
  7712. 18 lieutenant ma dare rose swell?
  7713.  
  7714. 19 A Yes.
  7715.  
  7716. 20 Q Any other conversation that you had that are
  7717.  
  7718. 21 not protected by the attorney-client meaning your
  7719.  
  7720. 22 counsel was not present?
  7721.  
  7722. 23 A Yes.
  7723.  
  7724. 24 Q Okay. What conversations were those?
  7725.  
  7726. 25 A Chief say on the patio in a instructed captain
  7727. 138
  7728.  
  7729.  
  7730.  
  7731.  
  7732.  
  7733.  
  7734. 1 ma dare rose that I would not be interviewed again and
  7735.  
  7736. 2 not participate in a walk flu.
  7737.  
  7738. 3 Q Okay. Do you know why chief say on the patio
  7739.  
  7740. 4 in a instructed him that?
  7741.  
  7742. 5 ATTORNEY2: I think that really calls for
  7743.  
  7744. 6 speculation.
  7745.  
  7746. 7 MR. POINTER: I'm asking do you know why.
  7747.  
  7748. 8 ATTORNEY3: Yes or no question.
  7749.  
  7750. 9 THE WITNESS: No I don't know the full
  7751.  
  7752. 10 details.
  7753.  
  7754. 11 MR. POINTERQ. Did he tell you why?
  7755.  
  7756. 12 A No.
  7757.  
  7758. 13 Q Okay. What is your understanding as to why?
  7759.  
  7760. 14 ATTORNEY2: I'm sorry what his understanding
  7761.  
  7762. 15 of why.
  7763.  
  7764. 16 MR. POINTER: Yeah.
  7765.  
  7766. 17 ATTORNEY2: Well, that calls for speculation.
  7767.  
  7768. 18 MR. POINTER: I'm asking what is your
  7769.  
  7770. 19 understanding if you have an objection then.
  7771.  
  7772. 20 ATTORNEY2: Objection.
  7773.  
  7774. 21 MR. POINTER: Dually noted and now you can
  7775.  
  7776. 22 tell me.
  7777.  
  7778. 23 ATTORNEY2: He wanted to know if you know why
  7779.  
  7780. 24 say on the patio nay Gaye.
  7781.  
  7782. 25 THE WITNESS: I don't know he told me that
  7783. 139
  7784.  
  7785.  
  7786.  
  7787.  
  7788.  
  7789.  
  7790. 1 chief Howard Jordan AIA call out Jordan not to have IA
  7791.  
  7792. 2 come down there that's the only thing that he said.
  7793.  
  7794. 3 Q Okay. So it's your understanding that chief
  7795.  
  7796. 4 OPD chief Jordan internal affairs come out take a look
  7797.  
  7798. 5 at this incident?
  7799.  
  7800. 6 A Correct.
  7801.  
  7802. 7 Q Also your understanding that internal affairs
  7803.  
  7804. 8 come out speak to you correct?
  7805.  
  7806. 9 A Correct.
  7807.  
  7808. 10 Q And internal affairs do a walk through
  7809.  
  7810. 11 correct?
  7811.  
  7812. 12 A Correct.
  7813.  
  7814. 13 Q And chief say on the patio in a inter-seeded
  7815.  
  7816. 14 told chief Jordan not apartmented either one of those
  7817.  
  7818. 15 activities correct?
  7819.  
  7820. 16 A No I witness not interviewed walk through
  7821.  
  7822. 17 chief car is that sheaf Jordan cancel the call out.
  7823.  
  7824. 18 Q You mean call out for internal affairs?
  7825.  
  7826. 19 A Yes.
  7827.  
  7828. 20 Q Was there any response by lieutenant ma dare
  7829.  
  7830. 21 rose as relates that conversation?
  7831.  
  7832. 22 A Yes.
  7833.  
  7834. 23 Q What did lieutenant ma dare rose say?
  7835.  
  7836. 24 A This is my impression.
  7837.  
  7838. 25 ATTORNEY2: What did he say in other words not
  7839. 140
  7840.  
  7841.  
  7842.  
  7843.  
  7844.  
  7845.  
  7846. 1 your impression.
  7847.  
  7848. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
  7849.  
  7850. 3 MR. POINTERQ. I'll ask about your impression
  7851.  
  7852. 4 later?
  7853.  
  7854. 5 A He said well I prefer him to stay here because
  7855.  
  7856. 6 I want to cause you were the first person that was
  7857.  
  7858. 7 interviewed something I want to interview bat and then
  7859.  
  7860. 8 revisit you and he had said well, if you don't want him
  7861.  
  7862. 9 to be interviewed if there becomes a time where I need
  7863.  
  7864. 10 him back then he's going to have to drive back from
  7865.  
  7866. 11 home that was the conversation.
  7867.  
  7868. 12 Q Okay. And did chief say on the patio in a say
  7869.  
  7870. 13 anything response to lieutenant ma dare rose concerns?
  7871.  
  7872. 14 A I don't remember him saying anything.
  7873.  
  7874. 15 Q And you were consistently allow today Lee
  7875.  
  7876. 16 without being reinterviewed is that true of course yes.
  7877.  
  7878. 17 Q You were allowed to leave OPD without any walk
  7879.  
  7880. 18 through taking place is that true?
  7881.  
  7882. 19 A Yes.
  7883.  
  7884. 20 Q Okay. Now, what was your impression at this
  7885.  
  7886. 21 point in time what was going through your mind when
  7887.  
  7888. 22 this conversation was taking place between sheaf car in
  7889.  
  7890. 23 a and lieutenant ma dare rose?
  7891.  
  7892. 24 ATTORNEY2: I appreciate the what you've asked
  7893.  
  7894. 25 him I think it is calling for speculation I don't know
  7895. 141
  7896.  
  7897.  
  7898.  
  7899.  
  7900.  
  7901.  
  7902. 1 it's relevant vague and ambiguous assumes something was
  7903.  
  7904. 2 going through his mind assumes facts not in evidence.
  7905.  
  7906. 3 MR. POINTER: Were you thinking.
  7907.  
  7908. 4 THE WITNESS: Dawn this is all what I was
  7909.  
  7910. 5 thinking at that point was to go home.
  7911.  
  7912. 6 MR. POINTERQ. Okay?
  7913.  
  7914. 7 A Honestly I'm telling you as it happened and it
  7915.  
  7916. 8 didn't it was my imlegacy was a little weird lieutenant
  7917.  
  7918. 9 ma dare rose wanting necessary to stay I didn't give it
  7919.  
  7920. 10 another thought I just wanted to go home and hug my
  7921.  
  7922. 11 wife.
  7923.  
  7924. 12 MR. POINTERQ. Understood as you sit here
  7925.  
  7926. 13 today do you have an impression of that conversation?
  7927.  
  7928. 14 ATTORNEY2: Again, I think it obligates him to
  7929.  
  7930. 15 speculate I think it's vague and ambiguous I don't
  7931.  
  7932. 16 think it's relevant.
  7933.  
  7934. 17 Q So you can answer?
  7935.  
  7936. 18 A Yes.
  7937.  
  7938. 19 Q Okay and what is that impression?
  7939.  
  7940. 20 A I think there were steps taken from my
  7941.  
  7942. 21 knowledge from that point onto now taken to minimize
  7943.  
  7944. 22 liability.
  7945.  
  7946. 23 Q And what steps were those that you feel have
  7947.  
  7948. 24 been taken to minimize liability in the after math of
  7949.  
  7950. 25 the shooting?
  7951. 142
  7952.  
  7953.  
  7954.  
  7955.  
  7956.  
  7957.  
  7958. 1 ATTORNEY2: I believe that calls for
  7959.  
  7960. 2 speculation vague and ambiguous and think the question
  7961.  
  7962. 3 obligates him to give a narrative it's overly broad
  7963.  
  7964. 4 also involved matters of attorney-client privilege so
  7965.  
  7966. 5 I'm going to instruct him not to answer as it question
  7967.  
  7968. 6 is opposed.
  7969.  
  7970. 7 MR. POINTERQ. We already know ad nauseam
  7971.  
  7972. 8 cannot invade the premise of attorney-client setting
  7973.  
  7974. 9 whatever in your mind that you just testified as
  7975.  
  7976. 10 relates the steps that have been used are taken to
  7977.  
  7978. 11 minimize a little bit what else is left, if anything,?
  7979.  
  7980. 12 A What other conversation I had.
  7981.  
  7982. 13 Q Conversations or steps as to use your word
  7983.  
  7984. 14 minimize liability as relates this incident regarding
  7985.  
  7986. 15 Ryan brown?
  7987.  
  7988. 16 ATTORNEY2: Same objections previously noted I
  7989.  
  7990. 17 think it's vague and ambiguous calls for speculation
  7991.  
  7992. 18 absence of foundation.
  7993.  
  7994. 19 ATTORNEY4: The attorney-client.
  7995.  
  7996. 20 MR. POINTER: 10 other objections they can
  7997.  
  7998. 21 throw in.
  7999.  
  8000. 22 A Do I still.
  8001.  
  8002. 23 MR. POINTER: Yes.
  8003.  
  8004. 24 ATTORNEY2: Without guessing.
  8005.  
  8006. 25 A No I'm not chief say on the patio in a told me
  8007. 143
  8008.  
  8009.  
  8010.  
  8011.  
  8012.  
  8013.  
  8014. 1 periodically that Howard Jordan chief Howard Jordon
  8015.  
  8016. 2 still insisted having internal affairs make do the
  8017.  
  8018. 3 investigation.
  8019.  
  8020. 4 Q Okay?
  8021.  
  8022. 5 A And chief say on the patio in a's words to me
  8023.  
  8024. 6 were he can kiss my assist I don't want him in my
  8025.  
  8026. 7 department.
  8027.  
  8028. 8 A I was told by homicide sergeant Rachel van
  8029.  
  8030. 9 slow ten that there were issues go in on periodically
  8031.  
  8032. 10 throughout whenever I had to go back and get
  8033.  
  8034. 11 photographed of my injuries.
  8035.  
  8036. 12 Q What's your understanding as to what issues
  8037.  
  8038. 13 are?
  8039.  
  8040. 14 A She wouldn't call me she just told me.
  8041.  
  8042. 15 ATTORNEY2: Don't be guessing.
  8043.  
  8044. 16 MR. POINTERQ. What did he tell you?
  8045.  
  8046. 17 ATTORNEY2: He just said.
  8047.  
  8048. 18 MR. POINTERQ. No he said I don't know but
  8049.  
  8050. 19 she told me now I want to know what you were told?
  8051.  
  8052. 20 ATTORNEY2: They were issues you asked him
  8053.  
  8054. 21 what did he say those issues were.
  8055.  
  8056. 22 MR. POINTER: And he answered yellow light.
  8057.  
  8058. 23 ATTORNEY3: He didn't fish his answer.
  8059.  
  8060. 24 A She didn't go into any issues she just said
  8061.  
  8062. 25 that she said bat ass has issues.
  8063. 144
  8064.  
  8065.  
  8066.  
  8067.  
  8068.  
  8069.  
  8070. 1 MR. POINTERQ. And this was van slow ten and
  8071.  
  8072. 2 when did she make those statements?
  8073.  
  8074. 3 A He told me different occasions when I had
  8075.  
  8076. 4 fingerprints or my photographs taken.
  8077.  
  8078. 5 Q Okay and that was during the night of this
  8079.  
  8080. 6 incident?
  8081.  
  8082. 7 A This was afterwards.
  8083.  
  8084. 8 Q Okay. This was within while you were still on
  8085.  
  8086. 9 the scene -- conversation that you just had with van
  8087.  
  8088. 10 slow ten where she bat would have issues if this ever
  8089.  
  8090. 11 goes to court photographs on scene?
  8091.  
  8092. 12 A No.
  8093.  
  8094. 13 Q Okay. This is some other point in time?
  8095.  
  8096. 14 A Yes.
  8097.  
  8098. 15 Q Okay was this while you were at OPD?
  8099.  
  8100. 16 A No.
  8101.  
  8102. 17 Q When did this conversation van slow ten attack
  8103.  
  8104. 18 place?
  8105.  
  8106. 19 A Span of a month after the incident.
  8107.  
  8108. 20 Q So van slow ten pictures of your injuries?
  8109.  
  8110. 21 A She asked pictures she wanted to see my
  8111.  
  8112. 22 injuries she requested that the technician or our
  8113.  
  8114. 23 technician our department take photos of my injuries.
  8115.  
  8116. 24 Q Okay were the photos ever taken of your
  8117.  
  8118. 25 injuries?
  8119. 145
  8120.  
  8121.  
  8122.  
  8123.  
  8124.  
  8125.  
  8126. 1 A Yes.
  8127.  
  8128. 2 Q And those tech in your department?
  8129.  
  8130. 3 A Yes.
  8131.  
  8132. 4 Q On how many occasions were photos taken?
  8133.  
  8134. 5 A I believe three occasions.
  8135.  
  8136. 6 Q And do you know the tech niece name at a took
  8137.  
  8138. 7 the photos?
  8139.  
  8140. 8 A Holly Matthews took I believe two out of the
  8141.  
  8142. 9 three and I do not know the other person's name.
  8143.  
  8144. 10 Q Okay. But they are that other person was
  8145.  
  8146. 11 Oakland unified school district employee?
  8147.  
  8148. 12 A I don't believe so.
  8149.  
  8150. 13 Q Do you know if that person was an employee or
  8151.  
  8152. 14 acting of Petersen?
  8153.  
  8154. 15 A No.
  8155.  
  8156. 16 Q Meaning you don't know whether?
  8157.  
  8158. 17 A I do not know.
  8159.  
  8160. 18 Q Okay. And so was van slow ten present when
  8161.  
  8162. 19 the pictures were taken on these other occasions?
  8163.  
  8164. 20 A I don't believe so.
  8165.  
  8166. 21 Q So when were you having these conversations
  8167.  
  8168. 22 with her by phone in person?
  8169.  
  8170. 23 A No I was just one time I was I remember
  8171.  
  8172. 24 sitting in court about to testify I was waiting to be
  8173.  
  8174. 25 called and she walked down the hall and asked how I was
  8175. 146
  8176.  
  8177.  
  8178.  
  8179.  
  8180.  
  8181.  
  8182. 1 doing and that's how it came up.
  8183.  
  8184. 2 Q Testifying in court something having to do
  8185.  
  8186. 3 with this particular matter?
  8187.  
  8188. 4 A No.
  8189.  
  8190. 5 Q Some other case that you had been
  8191.  
  8192. 6 investigating?
  8193.  
  8194. 7 A Yes.
  8195.  
  8196. 8 Q Crime case a criminal case?
  8197.  
  8198. 9 A Yes.
  8199.  
  8200. 10 Q That officer or somehow involved in?
  8201.  
  8202. 11 A Yes.
  8203.  
  8204. 12 Q Okay. So was this more of a happen pen chance
  8205.  
  8206. 13 meeting?
  8207.  
  8208. 14 A Yes.
  8209.  
  8210. 15 Q Passing by you had this ex-the change with
  8211.  
  8212. 16 her?
  8213.  
  8214. 17 A Yes.
  8215.  
  8216. 18 Q Where she made the statement regarding bat
  8217.  
  8218. 19 having issues?
  8219.  
  8220. 20 A Yes.
  8221.  
  8222. 21 Q And I believe more than one occasion?
  8223.  
  8224. 22 A 3 times.
  8225.  
  8226. 23 Q Issues what did you take that to mean?
  8227.  
  8228. 24 A I didn't know.
  8229.  
  8230. 25 Q And when you say you didn't know at the time
  8231. 147
  8232.  
  8233.  
  8234.  
  8235.  
  8236.  
  8237.  
  8238. 1 she was making?
  8239.  
  8240. 2 A Correct.
  8241.  
  8242. 3 Q As you sit here today do you know?
  8243.  
  8244. 4 A No.? So as you sit here today you're still
  8245.  
  8246. 5 unsure what she was referring to.
  8247.  
  8248. 6 A Correct.
  8249.  
  8250. 7 Q Has anybody outside of your attorneys or
  8251.  
  8252. 8 people who are representing you as it relates to
  8253.  
  8254. 9 sergeant bat having issuance as it relates to this
  8255.  
  8256. 10 case?
  8257.  
  8258. 11 A Other than chief say on the patio in a.
  8259.  
  8260. 12 Q We can talk about chief say on the patio in a
  8261.  
  8262. 13 what statements has chief say on the patio in a made to
  8263.  
  8264. 14 you as it relates this case?
  8265.  
  8266. 15 ATTORNEY2: I don't know what he already said.
  8267.  
  8268. 16 ATTORNEY4: The question retires
  8269.  
  8270. 17 attorney-client privilege.
  8271.  
  8272. 18 MR. POINTER: Just so we're clear here chief
  8273.  
  8274. 19 say on the patio in a represented by counsel and same
  8275.  
  8276. 20 counsel that we representing you for a period of time
  8277.  
  8278. 21 until you got separate counsel I don't want any
  8279.  
  8280. 22 conversations that are protected by attorney-client
  8281.  
  8282. 23 however made statements to you outside of the presence
  8283.  
  8284. 24 of his counsel throws the conversation I I'm entitled
  8285.  
  8286. 25 to know about are we clear.
  8287. 148
  8288.  
  8289.  
  8290.  
  8291.  
  8292.  
  8293.  
  8294. 1 A Yes.
  8295.  
  8296. 2 Q So that's all I'm asking you about?
  8297.  
  8298. 3 A Okay.
  8299.  
  8300. 4 Q Conversation related to this incident outside
  8301.  
  8302. 5 of the ones that you already testified to?
  8303.  
  8304. 6 A I wouldn't say it was a conversation.
  8305.  
  8306. 7 ATTORNEY4: Other than what he already
  8307.  
  8308. 8 testified to.
  8309.  
  8310. 9 MR. POINTERQ. Yes?
  8311.  
  8312. 10 A I didn't have a conversation per se I was at a
  8313.  
  8314. 11 dialogue with him it was statements that he made toward
  8315.  
  8316. 12 me.
  8317.  
  8318. 13 Q Why don't you tell me what those statements
  8319.  
  8320. 14 are?
  8321.  
  8322. 15 A I was walking down the hall to notify him
  8323.  
  8324. 16 of something I observed him you know do you know a
  8325.  
  8326. 17 boisterous yell with his first up in the area and he
  8327.  
  8328. 18 comes back on the phone talking with somebody and he
  8329.  
  8330. 19 gets off the phone and he was just saying yes, yes and
  8331.  
  8332. 20 he said that meaning we as a department that's how I
  8333.  
  8334. 21 took it we as a department don't have to worry about
  8335.  
  8336. 22 anything Peterson agreed to do the investigation and
  8337.  
  8338. 23 then I said who what Peterson ordinary care my friend
  8339.  
  8340. 24 Pete Peterson and he turns into his assistant Jane
  8341.  
  8342. 25 Wong's get Peterson's contact going and then he turn us
  8343. 149
  8344.  
  8345.  
  8346.  
  8347.  
  8348.  
  8349.  
  8350. 1 back towards me I still wanted to know fie him
  8351.  
  8352. 2 about something that I was doing not now I got to talk
  8353.  
  8354. 3 to the superintendent.
  8355.  
  8356. 4 Q So when this exchange you describe took place
  8357.  
  8358. 5 in relation to the incident was it ten minutes dais
  8359.  
  8360. 6 months?
  8361.  
  8362. 7 A Probably about a month after.
  8363.  
  8364. 8 Q And up to this time you had not been
  8365.  
  8366. 9 reinterviewed by anyone correct?
  8367.  
  8368. 10 A No.
  8369.  
  8370. 11 Q Okay and so when he was saying that Pete
  8371.  
  8372. 12 Peterson was going to do the investigation you took
  8373.  
  8374. 13 that what did that mean to you?
  8375.  
  8376. 14 A Nothing at the time.
  8377.  
  8378. 15 Q Okay. You later come to find out that Pete
  8379.  
  8380. 16 Peterson is actually the person who was in charge into
  8381.  
  8382. 17 this incident that true?
  8383.  
  8384. 18 A Yes.
  8385.  
  8386. 19 Q Okay. But at the time the chief is making
  8387.  
  8388. 20 these statements essentially being happy that Pete
  8389.  
  8390. 21 agreed to do the international affairs investigation
  8391.  
  8392. 22 you didn't know who Pete was is that true?
  8393.  
  8394. 23 A At the time.
  8395.  
  8396. 24 Q Okay you new him to be what?
  8397.  
  8398. 25 A Say on the patio in a's apprehend superior
  8399. 150
  8400.  
  8401.  
  8402.  
  8403.  
  8404.  
  8405.  
  8406. 1 from OPD.
  8407.  
  8408. 2 Q Pete Peterson friend of chief say on the patio
  8409.  
  8410. 3 in a is that true?
  8411.  
  8412. 4 A Yes.
  8413.  
  8414. 5 Q Direct supervisor when say on the patio in a
  8415.  
  8416. 6 OPD?
  8417.  
  8418. 7 A I believe I don't know.
  8419.  
  8420. 8 Q To the best of your understanding?
  8421.  
  8422. 9 A Yes.
  8423.  
  8424. 10 Q Same later come find out conduct internal
  8425.  
  8426. 11 affairs investigation incident Ryan brown?
  8427.  
  8428. 12 A Yes.
  8429.  
  8430. 13 Q When you said that chief say on the patio in a
  8431.  
  8432. 14 punched into the air what do you mean by that can you
  8433.  
  8434. 15 describe what that was?
  8435.  
  8436. 16 A He was sound bited he teem to be excited to
  8437.  
  8438. 17 me.
  8439.  
  8440. 18 Q What made you think he was sound bited what
  8441.  
  8442. 19 did he do?
  8443.  
  8444. 20 A I mean he didn't say I'm excited he just seem
  8445.  
  8446. 21 today me he resolved something.
  8447.  
  8448. 22 Q Okay. And chief say on the patio in a words
  8449.  
  8450. 23 of the effect that Pete Petersen had agreed to do the
  8451.  
  8452. 24 investigation is that true?
  8453.  
  8454. 25 A Yes.
  8455. 151
  8456.  
  8457.  
  8458.  
  8459.  
  8460.  
  8461.  
  8462. 1 Q Okay and you said he turned to his Talent's
  8463.  
  8464. 2 office?
  8465.  
  8466. 3 A Yes.
  8467.  
  8468. 4 Q What's?
  8469.  
  8470. 5 A Jamaicamy Wong.
  8471.  
  8472. 6 Q Okay did she appear to respond to the chief's
  8473.  
  8474. 7 request for her to prepare the contact?
  8475.  
  8476. 8 A I don't know.
  8477.  
  8478. 9 Q Okay. But that's what he told her to start
  8479.  
  8480. 10 preparing Pete's contact?
  8481.  
  8482. 11 A Yes.
  8483.  
  8484. 12 Q And you took that to mean related to
  8485.  
  8486. 13 preparing -- you took the chief's words about preparing
  8487.  
  8488. 14 the contact to mean this contact related to
  8489.  
  8490. 15 investigating this incident right?
  8491.  
  8492. 16 A Yes.
  8493.  
  8494. 17 Q Now, and then you heard the chief instruct his
  8495.  
  8496. 18 assistant on the phone is that right?
  8497.  
  8498. 19 A No he said I couldn't notify him of was going
  8499.  
  8500. 20 to say because he was going to do it.
  8501.  
  8502. 21 Q Essentially told you talk about instead he
  8503.  
  8504. 22 wanted to take his time to get in contact with the
  8505.  
  8506. 23 superintendent?
  8507.  
  8508. 24 A Yes.
  8509.  
  8510. 25 Q And were you did you actually see him place a
  8511. 152
  8512.  
  8513.  
  8514.  
  8515.  
  8516.  
  8517.  
  8518. 1 call to the superintendent?
  8519.  
  8520. 2 A No.
  8521.  
  8522. 3 Q And the superintendent being Tony Smith?
  8523.  
  8524. 4 A Yes.
  8525.  
  8526. 5 Q Did you have any further conversations with
  8527.  
  8528. 6 chief say on the patio in a other this dialogue since
  8529.  
  8530. 7 this took place?
  8531.  
  8532. 8 A Yes.
  8533.  
  8534. 9 Q What conversations were those?
  8535.  
  8536. 10 A I told him I was uncomfortable.
  8537.  
  8538. 11 Q When you told him uncomfortable what were you
  8539.  
  8540. 12 uncomfortable about?
  8541.  
  8542. 13 A After my interview with Petersen probably
  8543.  
  8544. 14 somewhere in the summertime I remember a lot more
  8545.  
  8546. 15 stuff.
  8547.  
  8548. 16 ATTORNEY2: Just a minute whatever swatting
  8549.  
  8550. 17 lieu is a may have said or done.
  8551.  
  8552. 18 Q Connection with the internal affairs
  8553.  
  8554. 19 investigation and this maybe part of that I don't want
  8555.  
  8556. 20 is privileged from disclosure it was lie bar
  8557.  
  8558. 21 instructing and?
  8559.  
  8560. 22 ATTORNEY3: What kind.
  8561.  
  8562. 23 ATTORNEY2: Lie bar I don't believe that you
  8563.  
  8564. 24 can inquire into this and I'm I guess the concern I
  8565.  
  8566. 25 have is I don't know that this it was part of the IA
  8567. 153
  8568.  
  8569.  
  8570.  
  8571.  
  8572.  
  8573.  
  8574. 1 investigation or not sergeant belieu is a either that's
  8575.  
  8576. 2 my concerns.
  8577.  
  8578. 3 MR. POINTERQ. I appreciate your concerns we
  8579.  
  8580. 4 all have concerns here it's not going the sergeant
  8581.  
  8582. 5 belieu is a saying what conversations he had?
  8583.  
  8584. 6 ATTORNEY2: It may.
  8585.  
  8586. 7 MR. POINTER: Because the internal affairs
  8587.  
  8588. 8 investigation and his interviews and any statements and
  8589.  
  8590. 9 any observations and his participation clearly covered
  8591.  
  8592. 10 by the protective order in this case so to that extent
  8593.  
  8594. 11 I'm entitle today find out entitle today inquire and
  8595.  
  8596. 12 he's not ohm entitled his required to have to respond
  8597.  
  8598. 13 to my questions.
  8599.  
  8600. 14 ATTORNEY2: I don't agree with your
  8601.  
  8602. 15 characterization he's not retired to answer.
  8603.  
  8604. 16 MR. POINTER: At the end of the day are you
  8605.  
  8606. 17 instructing him not to answer.
  8607.  
  8608. 18 ATTORNEY2: My problem is I don't know and
  8609.  
  8610. 19 make I further his discussion part of the internal
  8611.  
  8612. 20 affairs investigation if he doesn't proceed parking lot
  8613.  
  8614. 21 of it well, then certainly go ahead.
  8615.  
  8616. 22 MR. POINTER: If they are.
  8617.  
  8618. 23 ATTORNEY2: Well, then I think the internal
  8619.  
  8620. 24 affairs investigation is off limits.
  8621.  
  8622. 25 ATTORNEY3: Between sergeant and chief
  8623. 154
  8624.  
  8625.  
  8626.  
  8627.  
  8628.  
  8629.  
  8630. 1 internal affairs if there's no investigator there.
  8631.  
  8632. 2 ATTORNEY2: That's why I don't know I want to
  8633.  
  8634. 3 ask the question.
  8635.  
  8636. 4 MR. POINTER: The question is for me because
  8637.  
  8638. 5 do you need thyme time.
  8639.  
  8640. 6 ATTORNEY2: I would like to talk to him
  8641.  
  8642. 7 further inquire so that I can provide the appropriate
  8643.  
  8644. 8 o.k. if it's necessary.
  8645.  
  8646. 9 MR. POINTER: I will at the time you before
  8647.  
  8648. 10 you take the break if there's any objection as relates
  8649.  
  8650. 11 what e d light involving the internal affairs whatever
  8651.  
  8652. 12 it was participation of in a conjunction with that o.k.
  8653.  
  8654. 13 was without merit and I say at a because we're still
  8655.  
  8656. 14 bingo to get into the instruct him not to answer that's
  8657.  
  8658. 15 fine be back on another bay after we go talk to judge
  8659.  
  8660. 16 chin.
  8661.  
  8662. 17 ATTORNEY2: We may or may not.
  8663.  
  8664. 18 MR. POINTER: We'll find out off the record.
  8665.  
  8666. 19 (Recess taken from 2:25 p.m. to 2:35
  8667.  
  8668. 20 p.m.)
  8669.  
  8670. 21 MR. POINTERQ. We just took break you were
  8671.  
  8672. 22 telling me that you had a conversation say on the patio
  8673.  
  8674. 23 in a correct?
  8675.  
  8676. 24 A Correct.
  8677.  
  8678. 25 Q All right. And as a result of that
  8679. 155
  8680.  
  8681.  
  8682.  
  8683.  
  8684.  
  8685.  
  8686. 1 conversation I believe you were saying that yow felt
  8687.  
  8688. 2 uncomfortable that true?
  8689.  
  8690. 3 A I need to know the time frame where boar
  8691.  
  8692. 4 talking.
  8693.  
  8694. 5 Q All right. So you previously testified
  8695.  
  8696. 6 regarding conversation that you had with say on the
  8697.  
  8698. 7 patio in a where in or strike that it wasn't
  8699.  
  8700. 8 conversation but where chief say on the patio in a had
  8701.  
  8702. 9 inched you that his friend Pete Peterson was going to
  8703.  
  8704. 10 be had a agreed to conduct the internal affairs
  8705.  
  8706. 11 investigation into this incident is that true?
  8707.  
  8708. 12 ATTORNEY2: I think what he said was that
  8709.  
  8710. 13 chief say on the patio in a said that Mr. Petersen was
  8711.  
  8712. 14 going to conduct the IA I don't think the witness said
  8713.  
  8714. 15 that chief say on the patio in a said his friend
  8715.  
  8716. 16 Mr. Peter so.
  8717.  
  8718. 17 MR. POINTER: To dual will you noted.
  8719.  
  8720. 18 MR. POINTERQ. But do you recall this
  8721.  
  8722. 19 conversation that I'm referring to?
  8723.  
  8724. 20 A Owe.
  8725.  
  8726. 21 Q Okay. Did you have subsequent conversations
  8727.  
  8728. 22 with chief say on the patio in a after that particular
  8729.  
  8730. 23 conferring related to this incident regarding Rhine
  8731.  
  8732. 24 brown?
  8733.  
  8734. 25 A Yes.
  8735. 156
  8736.  
  8737.  
  8738.  
  8739.  
  8740.  
  8741.  
  8742. 1 Q Okay. Please just what was the next
  8743.  
  8744. 2 conversation after the one where you were informed that
  8745.  
  8746. 3 Pete Petersen was going to be conducting the
  8747.  
  8748. 4 investigation into this incident?
  8749.  
  8750. 5 A It was a few days before my interview with
  8751.  
  8752. 6 Peterson.
  8753.  
  8754. 7 Q Okay. And what was said between yourself and
  8755.  
  8756. 8 chief say on the patio in a during the course of that
  8757.  
  8758. 9 conversation?
  8759.  
  8760. 10 A I didn't really say anything during the course
  8761.  
  8762. 11 of the communication.
  8763.  
  8764. 12 Q Okay what did chief say on the patio in a say?
  8765.  
  8766. 13 A He instructed bat and I to report to rain
  8767.  
  8768. 14 cheens and tern for interview with Pete pet certify son
  8769.  
  8770. 15 2011.
  8771.  
  8772. 16 Q Okay. Did he say anything else?
  8773.  
  8774. 17 A Yes.
  8775.  
  8776. 18 Q What else did he say?
  8777.  
  8778. 19 A He said I'm not worried about anything as he
  8779.  
  8780. 20 went taken care of he said he might as well have a limb
  8781.  
  8782. 21 Moe pick us up and have drinks on the limb Moe and take
  8783.  
  8784. 22 us to Mike rains office to meet with Petersen.
  8785.  
  8786. 23 Q This is the chief saying this?
  8787.  
  8788. 24 A Yes.
  8789.  
  8790. 25 Q And the interview that he's refer to go is the
  8791. 157
  8792.  
  8793.  
  8794.  
  8795.  
  8796.  
  8797.  
  8798. 1 internal affairs interview into this district?
  8799.  
  8800. 2 A Yes.
  8801.  
  8802. 3 Q And how did that make you feel?
  8803.  
  8804. 4 A I took that.
  8805.  
  8806. 5 ATTORNEY2: No how did you do it take make you
  8807.  
  8808. 6 feel if you can relate how it made you feel.
  8809.  
  8810. 7 ATTORNEY3: He was about to answer until you
  8811.  
  8812. 8 interrupted him.
  8813.  
  8814. 9 ATTORNEY2: No. It made me feel that say on
  8815.  
  8816. 10 the patio in a was just I know how it sounds but
  8817.  
  8818. 11 honestly sitting there my impression how it paid me
  8819.  
  8820. 12 feel was that it was a normal just go down to meet with
  8821.  
  8822. 13 Petersen I know how I told that to you doesn't sound
  8823.  
  8824. 14 good at all but I didn't get any indication that
  8825.  
  8826. 15 anything was staged or that there was any cover ups if
  8827.  
  8828. 16 you can understand that that's what he said say on the
  8829.  
  8830. 17 patio in a's character is kind of similar to that so
  8831.  
  8832. 18 everyone though I'm being absolutely honest with you
  8833.  
  8834. 19 about what was said I didn't perceive that as if this
  8835.  
  8836. 20 thing was one big cover up and we're going down here to
  8837.  
  8838. 21 cover things up I didn't get that impression.
  8839.  
  8840. 22 Q So at this point in time this is conversation
  8841.  
  8842. 23 talking post accident conversation number two that row
  8843.  
  8844. 24 had where first conversation where he's advising you
  8845.  
  8846. 25 that a person that you know to be his going to be
  8847. 158
  8848.  
  8849.  
  8850.  
  8851.  
  8852.  
  8853.  
  8854. 1 conducting the investigation into this incident, yes.
  8855.  
  8856. 2 Q And that he's say on the patio in a responded
  8857.  
  8858. 3 or was acting in a way which he was happy?
  8859.  
  8860. 4 A Yes.
  8861.  
  8862. 5 Q Is that a fair way of saying it?
  8863.  
  8864. 6 A Yes.
  8865.  
  8866. 7 Q Second interaction regarding that accident
  8867.  
  8868. 8 pertain to go during the marriage helium brown he's is
  8869.  
  8870. 9 telling you that you have your interview is going to be
  8871.  
  8872. 10 taken down at ray hue generated the marriage stern?
  8873.  
  8874. 11 A Yes.
  8875.  
  8876. 12 Q Drinks on the limb know to your interview
  8877.  
  8878. 13 related to the death of RAUTed during the marriage
  8879.  
  8880. 14 helium brown?
  8881.  
  8882. 15 A Correct.
  8883.  
  8884. 16 Q And at that point in time when he made those
  8885.  
  8886. 17 statements during the conversation number two you did
  8887.  
  8888. 18 not have any feeling that there had been any type
  8889.  
  8890. 19 composure up investigation into this incident had been
  8891.  
  8892. 20 staged is that true?
  8893.  
  8894. 21 A Sure at that time.
  8895.  
  8896. 22 Q Okay.
  8897.  
  8898. 23 A At that particular time.
  8899.  
  8900. 24 Q So do you mean to say at some later point in
  8901.  
  8902. 25 time that feeling changed?
  8903. 159
  8904.  
  8905.  
  8906.  
  8907.  
  8908.  
  8909.  
  8910. 1 A Yes.
  8911.  
  8912. 2 Q When did that change?
  8913.  
  8914. 3 A A few months later.
  8915.  
  8916. 4 Q What caused that change?
  8917.  
  8918. 5 A That might be pro-teched.
  8919.  
  8920. 6 ATTORNEY2: Okay at some point you went or
  8921.  
  8922. 7 brought in by the FBI is that correct poke to the FBI.
  8923.  
  8924. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  8925.  
  8926. 9 ATTORNEY2: Those conversations with the FBI
  8927.  
  8928. 10 law enforcement agency any kind of disclosure.
  8929.  
  8930. 11 MR. POINTER: Under what privilege.
  8931.  
  8932. 12 ATTORNEY2: Well, under a variety of them.
  8933.  
  8934. 13 MR. POINTER: Okay let's trot them out.
  8935.  
  8936. 14 ATTORNEY2: There limited by evidence code
  8937.  
  8938. 15 section 1040 official information privilege.
  8939.  
  8940. 16 MR. POINTER: That a hold on dress one by one
  8941.  
  8942. 17 is that a.
  8943.  
  8944. 18 ATTORNEY2: 1040 is that a state.
  8945.  
  8946. 19 ATTORNEY2: Yes is that doesn't apply here.
  8947.  
  8948. 20 ATTORNEY2: There's also a variety of case law
  8949.  
  8950. 21 on that also federal regulation 28 code federal
  8951.  
  8952. 22 regulation 16.22.
  8953.  
  8954. 23 MR. POINTER: What is that.
  8955.  
  8956. 24 ATTORNEY2: Prevents that.
  8957.  
  8958. 25 ATTORNEY2: You asked me I'm telling you.
  8959. 160
  8960.  
  8961.  
  8962.  
  8963.  
  8964.  
  8965.  
  8966. 1 MR. POINTER: Least take them one by one sin
  8967.  
  8968. 2 you appear to have a list we want the record to be
  8969.  
  8970. 3 cheer first objection you have is you understand
  8971.  
  8972. 4 evidence code.
  8973.  
  8974. 5 ATTORNEY2: The court has it.
  8975.  
  8976. 6 MR. POINTER: Evidence code 1040 common law
  8977.  
  8978. 7 cases that interrupt evidence code 1040 I just want it
  8979.  
  8980. 8 to be clear.
  8981.  
  8982. 9 ATTORNEY2: I am giving I know I can.
  8983.  
  8984. 10 ATTORNEY3: I can read them myself too.
  8985.  
  8986. 11 ATTORNEY2: Yes I'm sure you can.
  8987.  
  8988. 12 MR. POINTER: The point is that's the first
  8989.  
  8990. 13 one.
  8991.  
  8992. 14 ATTORNEY2: The .1 is I'm telling you okay.
  8993.  
  8994. 15 MR. POINTER: I'm trying to make sure there's
  8995.  
  8996. 16 no reason to argue just tell me I'm just making that
  8997.  
  8998. 17 was the first one.
  8999.  
  9000. 18 ATTORNEY2: Next 28CFC section 16.24, and
  9001.  
  9002. 19 28CFR section 16.26.
  9003.  
  9004. 20 MR. POINTER: And those privileges commonly
  9005.  
  9006. 21 refer today anything.
  9007.  
  9008. 22 ATTORNEY2: They are what I just said they
  9009.  
  9010. 23 were we're not bingo to go into his communications with
  9011.  
  9012. 24 law enforcement agency.
  9013.  
  9014. 25 MR. POINTER: Do you have any further
  9015. 161
  9016.  
  9017.  
  9018.  
  9019.  
  9020.  
  9021.  
  9022. 1 description other than quote to go me these federal
  9023.  
  9024. 2 rules of regulation other than just the numbers that
  9025.  
  9026. 3 you given to me.
  9027.  
  9028. 4 ATTORNEY2: Do you have case law.
  9029.  
  9030. 5 MR. POINTER: What case.
  9031.  
  9032. 6 ATTORNEY2: I'm not going to share I don't
  9033.  
  9034. 7 think I have look it up yourself.
  9035.  
  9036. 8 ATTORNEY3: Privileged.
  9037.  
  9038. 9 MR. POINTER: Hold on it's real easy this is
  9039.  
  9040. 10 silly but that's fine learned attorney so now you're
  9041.  
  9042. 11 refusing to give me the case law.
  9043.  
  9044. 12 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to go and read it US2E
  9045.  
  9046. 13 versus Reagan, 340U462, U.S. versus Allen five bough
  9047.  
  9048. 14 fed second 398 earthquakes Miller versus mail treader
  9049.  
  9050. 15 478 feted sub second 415, those are the cases that I
  9051.  
  9052. 16 have in my hand.
  9053.  
  9054. 17 MR. POINTER: School district property from
  9055.  
  9056. 18 your position stand for the proposition that your
  9057.  
  9058. 19 client relates to statements that were made during the
  9059.  
  9060. 20 course of his conversation with the FBI.
  9061.  
  9062. 21 ATTORNEY2: Yes that's my instruction that he
  9063.  
  9064. 22 is not.
  9065.  
  9066. 23 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  9067.  
  9068. 24 ATTORNEY4: Let me add something for the
  9069.  
  9070. 25 record same would obtain any discussions that sergeant
  9071. 162
  9072.  
  9073.  
  9074.  
  9075.  
  9076.  
  9077.  
  9078. 1 belieu is a ma with the United States state attorney.
  9079.  
  9080. 2 ATTORNEY3: Your not claiming attorney-client
  9081.  
  9082. 3 privilege those discussions are you.
  9083.  
  9084. 4 MR. POINTER: No? Silence we'll take the
  9085.  
  9086. 5 silence to mean no.
  9087.  
  9088. 6 ATTORNEY4: I think those conversations are
  9089.  
  9090. 7 privileged under the same privileges that are being
  9091.  
  9092. 8 claimed resited two you understand CFR .2 for, and is
  9093.  
  9094. 9 16.26.
  9095.  
  9096. 10 ATTORNEY4: Simply defer specific language of
  9097.  
  9098. 11 the statutes that are provided by Mr.
  9099.  
  9100. 12 ATTORNEY3: That are not statutes they are
  9101.  
  9102. 13 regulations.
  9103.  
  9104. 14 MR. POINTER: Off the record for a moment
  9105.  
  9106. 15 please.
  9107.  
  9108. 16 (Recess taken from 2:47 p.m. to 2:48
  9109.  
  9110. 17 p.m.)
  9111.  
  9112. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Any conversation conversations
  9113.  
  9114. 19 or statements made by chief say on the patio in a
  9115.  
  9116. 20 related to this incident that were outside the presence
  9117.  
  9118. 21 of counsel?
  9119.  
  9120. 22 A Yes.
  9121.  
  9122. 23 Q Okay. What conversations is that please
  9123.  
  9124. 24 describe?
  9125.  
  9126. 25 A In June of 2011 I went up to chief say on the
  9127. 163
  9128.  
  9129.  
  9130.  
  9131.  
  9132.  
  9133.  
  9134. 1 patio in a and I told him I was unaware way things were
  9135.  
  9136. 2 and how it was investigated.
  9137.  
  9138. 3 Q What were the things that made you
  9139.  
  9140. 4 uncomfortable how things were in the investigation?
  9141.  
  9142. 5 A I think that might be privilege.
  9143.  
  9144. 6 ATTORNEY2: Is that.
  9145.  
  9146. 7 MR. POINTER: Well, I'm asking you about I
  9147.  
  9148. 8 don't want to know any conversations like if it's a
  9149.  
  9150. 9 conversation that you should have with counsel I don't
  9151.  
  9152. 10 want to know about that.
  9153.  
  9154. 11 A Okay.
  9155.  
  9156. 12 Q But if it's something else I do want to know?
  9157.  
  9158. 13 A It's not something else.
  9159.  
  9160. 14 Q Okay. How as it relates the investigation
  9161.  
  9162. 15 itself did I take any issues with the investigation
  9163.  
  9164. 16 that do not have to do with something that your counsel
  9165.  
  9166. 17 told you or something that you told counsel?
  9167.  
  9168. 18 A I don't believe so but can you repeat the
  9169.  
  9170. 19 question.
  9171.  
  9172. 20 Q Yeah. I'm trying to get to what made you
  9173.  
  9174. 21 uncomfortable?
  9175.  
  9176. 22 A Yeah.
  9177.  
  9178. 23 Q That will not and does not based upon your
  9179.  
  9180. 24 attorney-client privilege if it's all counsel making
  9181.  
  9182. 25 you comfortable and something that took place in that
  9183. 164
  9184.  
  9185.  
  9186.  
  9187.  
  9188.  
  9189.  
  9190. 1 sphere I'm plot asking you I can't even get into that?
  9191.  
  9192. 2 A Sure.
  9193.  
  9194. 3 Q Despite how much I might want to I'm not bingo
  9195.  
  9196. 4 to ask you I'm not going to go there?
  9197.  
  9198. 5 A There became aware of what I believe what I
  9199.  
  9200. 6 take that back what I suspected as being crimes that
  9201.  
  9202. 7 chief say on the patio in a was involved in.
  9203.  
  9204. 8 ATTORNEY2: Okay.
  9205.  
  9206. 9 THE WITNESS: And that might fall into.
  9207.  
  9208. 10 ATTORNEY2: And that's where we're going to
  9209.  
  9210. 11 stop met me ask you this clear whatever that concern or
  9211.  
  9212. 12 issue may have been deduct have anything to do
  9213.  
  9214. 13 unrelated to the events of the.
  9215.  
  9216. 14 THE WITNESS: Unrelated to testimonies of the
  9217.  
  9218. 15 shooting.
  9219.  
  9220. 16 ATTORNEY2: That is a subject matter of.
  9221.  
  9222. 17 ATTORNEY3: Well, with the objection it has to
  9223.  
  9224. 18 be reasonably county jail calculated add admissible
  9225.  
  9226. 19 evidence on the grounds that not quite a patient all he
  9227.  
  9228. 20 said those crimes weren't anything to do with this case
  9229.  
  9230. 21 but apatiently in his mind connected relatives I think
  9231.  
  9232. 22 the objection has to be possibly lead admissibility
  9233.  
  9234. 23 evidence I haven't heard him say that.
  9235.  
  9236. 24 ATTORNEY2: I heard him say that as long as
  9237.  
  9238. 25 you're comfortable whatever your concerns were at that
  9239. 165
  9240.  
  9241.  
  9242.  
  9243.  
  9244.  
  9245.  
  9246. 1 time unrelated to the shooting as far as say on the
  9247.  
  9248. 2 patio in a and supposed crimes that is your state of
  9249.  
  9250. 3 mind.
  9251.  
  9252. 4 THE WITNESS: It was that time frame I started
  9253.  
  9254. 5 feeling distressed and I started questioning a lot of
  9255.  
  9256. 6 they thinks that I probably normally seen.
  9257.  
  9258. 7 Q When brow say that time frame June of 2011?
  9259.  
  9260. 8 A Yes.
  9261.  
  9262. 9 Q Okay. So sometime June 2011 you began to
  9263.  
  9264. 10 distrust sergeant characteristic June of 2011 you began
  9265.  
  9266. 11 to distrust chief say on the patio in a as being
  9267.  
  9268. 12 truthful is that fair?
  9269.  
  9270. 13 A Yes.
  9271.  
  9272. 14 Q Okay.Set also fair to say that around 2011 you
  9273.  
  9274. 15 began to view chief say on the patio in a as not
  9275.  
  9276. 16 conducting the investigation in a fair and in a fair
  9277.  
  9278. 17 way?
  9279.  
  9280. 18 ATTORNEY2: That's not what he say.
  9281.  
  9282. 19 ATTORNEY4: Objection never testified chief
  9283.  
  9284. 20 say on the patio in a conducted the investigation.
  9285.  
  9286. 21 MR. POINTERQ. Well, I'm asking. If it's not
  9287.  
  9288. 22 it's not we'll go to something different?
  9289.  
  9290. 23 A I'm pausing 'cause I'm trying to analyze time
  9291.  
  9292. 24 frame that we're at.
  9293.  
  9294. 25 Q Can you repeat the question previously
  9295. 166
  9296.  
  9297.  
  9298.  
  9299.  
  9300.  
  9301.  
  9302. 1 testified that in or about sometime June of 2011 that
  9303.  
  9304. 2 you began to distrust chief say on the patio in a?
  9305.  
  9306. 3 A Start today yes.
  9307.  
  9308. 4 Q Okay. And I'm asking whether or not the
  9309.  
  9310. 5 distrust that you felt for chief say on the patio in a
  9311.  
  9312. 6 if that also affected the way that you perceived his
  9313.  
  9314. 7 handling of the investigation into the shooting of Ryan
  9315.  
  9316. 8 brown?
  9317.  
  9318. 9 A It started too.
  9319.  
  9320. 10 Q Okay. In what way did you begin to question?
  9321.  
  9322. 11 ATTORNEY4: Objection states faxes not in
  9323.  
  9324. 12 evidence.
  9325.  
  9326. 13 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  9327.  
  9328. 14 ATTORNEY2: Join in on that.
  9329.  
  9330. 15 MR. POINTER: Sure.
  9331.  
  9332. 16 MR. POINTERQ. In what way did it begin to
  9333.  
  9334. 17 question his handling of the investigation into the
  9335.  
  9336. 18 Ryan brown isn't irk objection he never testified that
  9337.  
  9338. 19 he handled the investigation?
  9339.  
  9340. 20 MR. POINTER: But 83 did testify detect
  9341.  
  9342. 21 conduct the investigation correct.
  9343.  
  9344. 22 A Yes.
  9345.  
  9346. 23 Q And that was chief say on the patio in a's
  9347.  
  9348. 24 direction?
  9349.  
  9350. 25 A Yes.
  9351. 167
  9352.  
  9353.  
  9354.  
  9355.  
  9356.  
  9357.  
  9358. 1 Q So once again so that we're clear here what
  9359.  
  9360. 2 decision if any did you begin to question as relates
  9361.  
  9362. 3 chief say on the patio in a's handling of this
  9363.  
  9364. 4 investigation?
  9365.  
  9366. 5 ATTORNEY4: Same objection.
  9367.  
  9368. 6 THE WITNESS: I started thinking back to what
  9369.  
  9370. 7 sergeant van slow ten was saying and then I started
  9371.  
  9372. 8 thinking about chief Jordon want to go gait it and
  9373.  
  9374. 9 that's pretty much all I thought at the time.
  9375.  
  9376. 10 Q I was rue it my mat ticking over the accident
  9377.  
  9378. 11 and that's about it.
  9379.  
  9380. 12 Q Okay so you began to question is it fair to
  9381.  
  9382. 13 say you began to question the decision that had been
  9383.  
  9384. 14 made for you not to participate in the walk through?
  9385.  
  9386. 15 A No.
  9387.  
  9388. 16 Q Okay?
  9389.  
  9390. 17 A Not at that time.
  9391.  
  9392. 18 Q At some precinct later point in time?
  9393.  
  9394. 19 A Yes.
  9395.  
  9396. 20 Q Okay. What point in time was that?
  9397.  
  9398. 21 A Probably in September 2011 why.
  9399.  
  9400. 22 Q Whited did you begin to question the decision
  9401.  
  9402. 23 that was made for you not to participant in the walk
  9403.  
  9404. 24 through?
  9405.  
  9406. 25 ATTORNEY2: I don't know this but I want to
  9407. 168
  9408.  
  9409.  
  9410.  
  9411.  
  9412.  
  9413.  
  9414. 1 caution witness that in this has anything to do with in
  9415.  
  9416. 2 you level of auto immune day ago with your attorney in
  9417.  
  9418. 3 any fashion you need to tell me that because that's an
  9419.  
  9420. 4 area they don't belief you should be allowed to be
  9421.  
  9422. 5 asked about if it's not then you can respond.
  9423.  
  9424. 6 THE WITNESS: Cue rephrase it.
  9425.  
  9426. 7 MR. POINTER: Welcome to hanging out with
  9427.  
  9428. 8 attorneys.
  9429.  
  9430. 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah I'm the only one sitting
  9431.  
  9432. 10 here.
  9433.  
  9434. 11 MR. POINTERQ. So you said sergeant that
  9435.  
  9436. 12 sometime approximately in or about September 2011 you
  9437.  
  9438. 13 began to question the decision that had been made for
  9439.  
  9440. 14 you plot to participate in the walk through that true?
  9441.  
  9442. 15 ATTORNEY4: The way the way question phrase
  9443.  
  9444. 16 inwould intrude in the attorney-client privilege.
  9445.  
  9446. 17 A It was more along the lines of August.
  9447.  
  9448. 18 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. And what was it, if
  9449.  
  9450. 19 anything, in August of 2011 that maid owe feel that
  9451.  
  9452. 20 way?
  9453.  
  9454. 21 A There was a complaint that I had to make
  9455.  
  9456. 22 against the chief.
  9457.  
  9458. 23 Q And what complaint was that?
  9459.  
  9460. 24 ATTORNEY2: Well, I think there are concerns
  9461.  
  9462. 25 about privacy rights here.
  9463. 169
  9464.  
  9465.  
  9466.  
  9467.  
  9468.  
  9469.  
  9470. 1 ATTORNEY3: Who's privacy.
  9471.  
  9472. 2 MR. POINTER: Go ahead.
  9473.  
  9474. 3 ATTORNEY2: If the complaint was specific to
  9475.  
  9476. 4 this incident the shooting then you can answer that you
  9477.  
  9478. 5 took position if this complaint resentment today over
  9479.  
  9480. 6 inter-California natural re S between you chief certify
  9481.  
  9482. 7 in a perception then I think there's a right to privacy
  9483.  
  9484. 8 here issue that's.
  9485.  
  9486. 9 MR. POINTER: And I will say that privacy
  9487.  
  9488. 10 grounds that appear to be asserted here federal lawsuit
  9489.  
  9490. 11 they don't I'm sorry you may feel other wise but the
  9491.  
  9492. 12 law is pretty clear I'm comfortable there and it also
  9493.  
  9494. 13 goes bias interest motive and or the ma nil issue here
  9495.  
  9496. 14 so with that all being said what complaint was that.
  9497.  
  9498. 15 ATTORNEY2: And I'm telling the witness unless
  9499.  
  9500. 16 relates this shooting then it is irrelevant and I'm
  9501.  
  9502. 17 going to instruct him not to answer as well reasons for
  9503.  
  9504. 18 privacy.
  9505.  
  9506. 19 MR. POINTER: And we'll just be here on
  9507.  
  9508. 20 another day everybody's dime and sanctions after we
  9509.  
  9510. 21 talk to jump chin.
  9511.  
  9512. 22 ATTORNEY2: With that admonition I'm going you
  9513.  
  9514. 23 can answer the question or if you can answer the
  9515.  
  9516. 24 question go ahead and answer.
  9517.  
  9518. 25 THE WITNESS: The only okay so I think it's
  9519. 170
  9520.  
  9521.  
  9522.  
  9523.  
  9524.  
  9525.  
  9526. 1 hard for me to narrow down that particular thought I
  9527.  
  9528. 2 any the best thing I can tell you Mr. Pointer is that
  9529.  
  9530. 3 from Juneish 2011 to August, September, 2011 I started
  9531.  
  9532. 4 to distrust chief say on the patio in a and I don't
  9533.  
  9534. 5 know I can't honestly say at what time period I
  9535.  
  9536. 6 formulated certain aspects of my thinking but there was
  9537.  
  9538. 7 events that occurred throughout the course of that time
  9539.  
  9540. 8 that diminished that trust.
  9541.  
  9542. 9 A I don't want to go off on a and the engine but
  9543.  
  9544. 10 the best way I can describe it is the feeling that you
  9545.  
  9546. 11 would have with a girlfriend or a boyfriend that
  9547.  
  9548. 12 cheated on you don't want to believe it you trust --
  9549.  
  9550. 13 you still trust that person after that relationship is
  9551.  
  9552. 14 broke up pick up and remember and see what really
  9553.  
  9554. 15 happened that's the best I can tell you.
  9555.  
  9556. 16 Q Okay. Fair enough. And so taking up on your
  9557.  
  9558. 17 analogy if you will of the boyfriend and girlfriend
  9559.  
  9560. 18 who's streeted on you and you start to look back is
  9561.  
  9562. 19 that fair to say the course of your relationship with
  9563.  
  9564. 20 this person?
  9565.  
  9566. 21 A Yes.
  9567.  
  9568. 22 Q And you may start to pinpoint or identify
  9569.  
  9570. 23 particular events particular conversations particular
  9571.  
  9572. 24 instances where you may say hey I think this person
  9573.  
  9574. 25 told me what I believed initially not true or they were
  9575. 171
  9576.  
  9577.  
  9578.  
  9579.  
  9580.  
  9581.  
  9582. 1 being deceptive or lying to me I'm trying to figure
  9583.  
  9584. 2 iota your perspective relationship with chief say on
  9585.  
  9586. 3 the patio in a what districts what events what
  9587.  
  9588. 4 conversations did you begin to look at in a you go to
  9589.  
  9590. 5 different light at or about the time that you started
  9591.  
  9592. 6 feeling that way?
  9593.  
  9594. 7 A Okay.
  9595.  
  9596. 8 ATTORNEY4: Well, let me make an o.k. before
  9597.  
  9598. 9 he begins to answer that this inquire may intrude in
  9599.  
  9600. 10 matters that are privileged and comfortable as part of
  9601.  
  9602. 11 chief say on the patio in a's personal file more over I
  9603.  
  9604. 12 am fairly persuaded that the line of questioning has no
  9605.  
  9606. 13 retrieves this case and would not lead to discovery of
  9607.  
  9608. 14 any add admissible evidence except for an issue
  9609.  
  9610. 15 directorially involving the shooting which took place
  9611.  
  9612. 16 in January of that year.
  9613.  
  9614. 17 ATTORNEY2: I join in on that there's also
  9615.  
  9616. 18 complication and that is you are by the your question
  9617.  
  9618. 19 asking sergeant belieu is a state of mind interrupt I
  9619.  
  9620. 20 don't think that's relate but also calls for
  9621.  
  9622. 21 speculation so go ahead.
  9623.  
  9624. 22 MR. POINTERQ. Do you have to speculate about
  9625.  
  9626. 23 what's in your ahead?
  9627.  
  9628. 24 ATTORNEY2: No WHRORBLT Kawasaki or sal
  9629.  
  9630. 25 relationship.
  9631. 172
  9632.  
  9633.  
  9634.  
  9635.  
  9636.  
  9637.  
  9638. 1 MR. POINTERQ. Do you know what's request in
  9639.  
  9640. 2 your ahead sergeant?
  9641.  
  9642. 3 A Yes.
  9643.  
  9644. 4 Q Are you sane sergeant?
  9645.  
  9646. 5 A Yes.
  9647.  
  9648. 6 Q Do you hallucinate?
  9649.  
  9650. 7 ATTORNEY2: Okay that's enough you're being
  9651.  
  9652. 8 owe fen sieve is that.
  9653.  
  9654. 9 MR. POINTERQ. Your being owe fentive?
  9655.  
  9656. 10 ATTORNEY2: Your being owe fen time you saw to
  9657.  
  9658. 11 me but I'm his attorney and you are being owe February.
  9659.  
  9660. 12 MR. POINTER: Simple questions simple.
  9661.  
  9662. 13 ATTORNEY2: Flay not simple questions.
  9663.  
  9664. 14 MR. POINTER: Okay. We like to dance and tang
  9665.  
  9666. 15 goes we're not the show.
  9667.  
  9668. 16 ATTORNEY2: I think your show.
  9669.  
  9670. 17 MR. POINTER: See me in quite a show.
  9671.  
  9672. 18 ATTORNEY2: I'm sure your spectacular.
  9673.  
  9674. 19 MR. POINTER: No I'm okay but I'm working
  9675.  
  9676. 20 objection no foundation it.
  9677.  
  9678. 21 MR. POINTERQ. Sergeant what was it in your
  9679.  
  9680. 22 mind looking back on your relationship chief say on the
  9681.  
  9682. 23 patio in a that you began to question or think
  9683.  
  9684. 24 differently base upon the feelings that you had
  9685.  
  9686. 25 sometime between June of 2011 and August 2011?
  9687. 173
  9688.  
  9689.  
  9690.  
  9691.  
  9692.  
  9693.  
  9694. 1 ATTORNEY2: Same objection go ahead.
  9695.  
  9696. 2 ATTORNEY4: Same objection not likely to lead
  9697.  
  9698. 3 to discovery of add admissibility evidence.
  9699.  
  9700. 4 THE WITNESS: I found how the.
  9701.  
  9702. 5 ATTORNEY2: He's not asking event back
  9703.  
  9704. 6 Bolander who they were.
  9705.  
  9706. 7 ATTORNEY3: Let him up on answer the question.
  9707.  
  9708. 8 ATTORNEY2: That was the question.
  9709.  
  9710. 9 ATTORNEY3: You interrupted him.
  9711.  
  9712. 10 MR. POINTERQ. Holiday schedule on did you
  9713.  
  9714. 11 understand my question I think so?
  9715.  
  9716. 12 ATTORNEY2: Read it back.
  9717.  
  9718. 13 MR. POINTERQ. No?
  9719.  
  9720. 14 ATTORNEY2: I'm asking to be read back but I
  9721.  
  9722. 15 want to know first sergeant did you understand my
  9723.  
  9724. 16 question.
  9725.  
  9726. 17 A I think so.
  9727.  
  9728. 18 ATTORNEY4: I don't represent sergeant belieu
  9729.  
  9730. 19 is a any information provide or requested to provide
  9731.  
  9732. 20 part and bar very well personal filing would be
  9733.  
  9734. 21 privilege and comfortable sergeant belieu is a himself
  9735.  
  9736. 22 waive that privilege.
  9737.  
  9738. 23 ATTORNEY3: He never written files he doesn't
  9739.  
  9740. 24 know what's in it.
  9741.  
  9742. 25 MR. POINTER: Anything that you put in the
  9743. 174
  9744.  
  9745.  
  9746.  
  9747.  
  9748.  
  9749.  
  9750. 1 file that's your information sergeant.
  9751.  
  9752. 2 THE WITNESS: I they're seen his file there
  9753.  
  9754. 3 you go don't worry.
  9755.  
  9756. 4 ATTORNEY2: Would you read the question
  9757.  
  9758. 5 please.
  9759.  
  9760. 6 THE WITNESS: Yes so the events.
  9761.  
  9762. 7 Q Yes?
  9763.  
  9764. 8 A Chief say on the patio in a put his had the
  9765.  
  9766. 9 government courts put checks into his own personal name
  9767.  
  9768. 10 and he was trying.
  9769.  
  9770. 11 ATTORNEY2: This is the problem I don't know
  9771.  
  9772. 12 that Mr. Pointer is asking what chief say on the patio
  9773.  
  9774. 13 in a did that caused you to have feelings or if he's
  9775.  
  9776. 14 asking you with this knowledge you began to look back
  9777.  
  9778. 15 on events that had occurred that caused yow have
  9779.  
  9780. 16 whatever word was regarding what had previously
  9781.  
  9782. 17 existed.
  9783.  
  9784. 18 MR. POINTER: This is bordering on the line of
  9785.  
  9786. 19 ab soaredty when we began simple ground rules which one
  9787.  
  9788. 20 understand my question answer the question unless your
  9789.  
  9790. 21 instructed not to do you remember that.
  9791.  
  9792. 22 A Yes.
  9793.  
  9794. 23 Q Okay. If you have a question regarding
  9795.  
  9796. 24 anything that I ask you simply ask me do you understand
  9797.  
  9798. 25 that?
  9799. 175
  9800.  
  9801.  
  9802.  
  9803.  
  9804.  
  9805.  
  9806. 1 A Yes.
  9807.  
  9808. 2 Q If you don't understand?
  9809.  
  9810. 3 ATTORNEY2: Wait a minute you're suggesting
  9811.  
  9812. 4 that he has to ask you or all he has to ask scow
  9813.  
  9814. 5 clarification.
  9815.  
  9816. 6 MR. POINTER: Did you ask clarification.
  9817.  
  9818. 7 A No.
  9819.  
  9820. 8 MR. POINTERQ. And you started your answer
  9821.  
  9822. 9 correct?
  9823.  
  9824. 10 A Yes.
  9825.  
  9826. 11 Q Your response correct?
  9827.  
  9828. 12 A Yes.
  9829.  
  9830. 13 Q Under the rules of this dissembling they
  9831.  
  9832. 14 explained to you if you understand my question you are
  9833.  
  9834. 15 to respond correct?
  9835.  
  9836. 16 A Yes.
  9837.  
  9838. 17 ATTORNEY2: Unless I tell him other wise.
  9839.  
  9840. 18 MR. POINTER: When you began that last had you
  9841.  
  9842. 19 been directed not to respond.
  9843.  
  9844. 20 A Can you repeat that.
  9845.  
  9846. 21 Q Has any?
  9847.  
  9848. 22 A My I'm getting kind of worked up my heard has
  9849.  
  9850. 23 got.
  9851.  
  9852. 24 ATTORNEY2: Least take a break.
  9853.  
  9854. 25 Q There's a question pending?
  9855. 176
  9856.  
  9857.  
  9858.  
  9859.  
  9860.  
  9861.  
  9862. 1 ATTORNEY2: No there is not the question did I
  9863.  
  9864. 2 tell him not to answer the.
  9865.  
  9866. 3 MR. POINTER: No.
  9867.  
  9868. 4 ATTORNEY2: That is the last question
  9869.  
  9870. 5 Mr. Pointer let's go ahead.
  9871.  
  9872. 6 MR. POINTER: You need.
  9873.  
  9874. 7 ATTORNEY2: I need to go to the bathroom.Ees.
  9875.  
  9876. 8 (Recess taken from 3:08 p.m. to 3:21
  9877.  
  9878. 9 p.m.)
  9879.  
  9880. 10 MR. POINTERQ. Sergeant what information did
  9881.  
  9882. 11 you have or believe that led you to think that chief
  9883.  
  9884. 12 say on the patio in a was covering up the investigation
  9885.  
  9886. 13 into the shooting regarding Ryan brown?
  9887.  
  9888. 14 ATTORNEY2: Well, I'm going to object I don't
  9889.  
  9890. 15 think that's what the witness testified to I think
  9891.  
  9892. 16 that's a mess characterization of his testimony but go
  9893.  
  9894. 17 ahead and answer the i questioned in the sense of what
  9895.  
  9896. 18 you learned about certify in a.
  9897.  
  9898. 19 ATTORNEY4: Let me add an objection as well in
  9899.  
  9900. 20 so far as questions opposed by counsel may ask the
  9901.  
  9902. 21 witness to offer opinion as to ran out of moneyer or
  9903.  
  9904. 22 speculation or other issues which he does not have
  9905.  
  9906. 23 first hand knowledge and that testimony would not be
  9907.  
  9908. 24 relevant nor would it lead to discovery of add
  9909.  
  9910. 25 admissible evidence also only evidence that's Michelle
  9911. 177
  9912.  
  9913.  
  9914.  
  9915.  
  9916.  
  9917.  
  9918. 1 in federal court to impeach a witness criminal
  9919.  
  9920. 2 background moral turpitude attitude felonies any other
  9921.  
  9922. 3 type of conduct which someone may have said
  9923.  
  9924. 4 characterize as criminal which is not address that
  9925.  
  9926. 5 specific topic include only those items which I
  9927.  
  9928. 6 described is not relevant 92 okay so that's an
  9929.  
  9930. 7 objection.
  9931.  
  9932. 8 ATTORNEY4: That's it.
  9933.  
  9934. 9 MR. POINTER: Or is that a motion in limine
  9935.  
  9936. 10 flay.
  9937.  
  9938. 11 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question
  9939.  
  9940. 12 please.
  9941.  
  9942. 13 ATTORNEY3: It was only five minutes ago.
  9943.  
  9944. 14 MR. POINTERQ. This is come my call okay what
  9945.  
  9946. 15 information did you believe -- strike that. What led
  9947.  
  9948. 16 you to believe that chief say on the patio in a was
  9949.  
  9950. 17 covering the investigation into Ryan brown?
  9951.  
  9952. 18 ATTORNEY2: That I'm O I'm going to object
  9953.  
  9954. 19 toics state departments facts not in evidence.
  9955.  
  9956. 20 ATTORNEY2: Mischaracterize prior testimony go
  9957.  
  9958. 21 ahead.
  9959.  
  9960. 22 THE WITNESS: When I made a complaint about
  9961.  
  9962. 23 the shooting investigation to the general counsel.
  9963.  
  9964. 24 MR. POINTERQ. And you made this complaint
  9965.  
  9966. 25 who was the general counsel?
  9967. 178
  9968.  
  9969.  
  9970.  
  9971.  
  9972.  
  9973.  
  9974. 1 ATTORNEY2: Just give the name.
  9975.  
  9976. 2 A Jackie mire.
  9977.  
  9978. 3 MR. POINTERQ. And how was that complaint
  9979.  
  9980. 4 given written or oral?
  9981.  
  9982. 5 ATTORNEY2: That is attorney-client I'm I'm
  9983.  
  9984. 6 going to object to instruct him not to answer
  9985.  
  9986. 7 communications with Ms. Mire whatever they may have
  9987.  
  9988. 8 been are privileged.
  9989.  
  9990. 9 MR. POINTERQ. And you hold the privilege
  9991.  
  9992. 10 sergeant do you waive that privilege so you can tell
  9993.  
  9994. 11 me?
  9995.  
  9996. 12 ATTORNEY2: I'm instructing him not to answer
  9997.  
  9998. 13 that question that is a.
  9999.  
  10000. 14 MR. POINTER: I'm asking the question.
  10001.  
  10002. 15 ATTORNEY2: Well,.
  10003.  
  10004. 16 MR. POINTER: You can say no.
  10005.  
  10006. 17 ATTORNEY2: S in litigation I'm privilege
  10007.  
  10008. 18 communication with Ms. Minor.
  10009.  
  10010. 19 MR. POINTER: So I guess the question are you
  10011.  
  10012. 20 not going to answer.
  10013.  
  10014. 21 THE WITNESS: I'm going to follow the advise
  10015.  
  10016. 22 from my attorney for that particular day.
  10017.  
  10018. 23 MR. POINTERQ. And so is there another day
  10019.  
  10020. 24 that is there something else that you can tell me what
  10021.  
  10022. 25 led you to believe that chief say on the patio in a was
  10023. 179
  10024.  
  10025.  
  10026.  
  10027.  
  10028.  
  10029.  
  10030. 1 tempting to cover up the investigation into this
  10031.  
  10032. 2 incident?
  10033.  
  10034. 3 A Can you repeat question.
  10035.  
  10036. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Yeah. Setting aside and just
  10037.  
  10038. 5 so we're clear okay?
  10039.  
  10040. 6 A Yeah.
  10041.  
  10042. 7 Q Setting aside the conversations that you had
  10043.  
  10044. 8 with counsel?
  10045.  
  10046. 9 A Okay.
  10047.  
  10048. 10 Q Okay. What information led you to believe
  10049.  
  10050. 11 that chief say on the patio in a was attempting to
  10051.  
  10052. 12 cover up this incident related to RAUTed during the
  10053.  
  10054. 13 marriage meme brown?
  10055.  
  10056. 14 A When Pete Petersen was assign today
  10057.  
  10058. 15 investigate me.
  10059.  
  10060. 16 Q When you assigned to you investigation into
  10061.  
  10062. 17 your involvement with the RAUTed during the marriage
  10063.  
  10064. 18 meme brown situation?
  10065.  
  10066. 19 A No.
  10067.  
  10068. 20 Q A whole separate incident?
  10069.  
  10070. 21 A Yes.
  10071.  
  10072. 22 Q What was Pete Peterson investigating you for?
  10073.  
  10074. 23 ATTORNEY2: Well, that I'm going to instruct
  10075.  
  10076. 24 him not to answer Mr. Belieu is a has a right of
  10077.  
  10078. 25 privacy relative to whatever other matters may or may
  10079. 180
  10080.  
  10081.  
  10082.  
  10083.  
  10084.  
  10085.  
  10086. 1 not have existed during his employment as long as they
  10087.  
  10088. 2 don't have anything to do with the shooting.
  10089.  
  10090. 3 MR. POINTER: Well, they.
  10091.  
  10092. 4 ATTORNEY2: I think you can ask him
  10093.  
  10094. 5 investigation had anything to do with the shooting or
  10095.  
  10096. 6 unrelated to that but doesn't have anything to do with
  10097.  
  10098. 7 the shooting I want to right of privacy not to answer
  10099.  
  10100. 8 that.
  10101.  
  10102. 9 MR. POINTER: We have thousand times written
  10103.  
  10104. 10 letters to all counsel here related to the right of
  10105.  
  10106. 11 privacy lady out the case law around this does not
  10107.  
  10108. 12 apply to federal litigation so you're instructing him
  10109.  
  10110. 13 not to answer.
  10111.  
  10112. 14 ATTORNEY2: I think we need to establish
  10113.  
  10114. 15 whether or not whatever this oh thing that Mr. Peterson
  10115.  
  10116. 16 did has anything to do with the shooting.
  10117.  
  10118. 17 ATTORNEY3: In his mind.
  10119.  
  10120. 18 MR. POINTER: True in his mind more
  10121.  
  10122. 19 importantly we don't know you do I don't.
  10123.  
  10124. 20 ATTORNEY2: I don't know unless we're not
  10125.  
  10126. 21 going to go into it.
  10127.  
  10128. 22 MR. POINTER: On top of that directorially
  10129.  
  10130. 23 relate to this particular shooting we all know we're
  10131.  
  10132. 24 counsel we've done a lot of bias interest motive okay
  10133.  
  10134. 25 whether truthfulness veracity number of cays federal
  10135. 181
  10136.  
  10137.  
  10138.  
  10139.  
  10140.  
  10141.  
  10142. 1 litigation doesn't have to be this something that may
  10143.  
  10144. 2 led us to with all that being said, please.
  10145.  
  10146. 3 ATTORNEY2: What's your question.
  10147.  
  10148. 4 MR. POINTER: 5 minutes.
  10149.  
  10150. 5 THE WITNESS: I forgot if you can ask me can.
  10151.  
  10152. 6 MR. POINTERQ. What was Pete Peterson
  10153.  
  10154. 7 fighting you for?
  10155.  
  10156. 8 A Retaliation complaints.
  10157.  
  10158. 9 Q Retaliation for what?
  10159.  
  10160. 10 A For speaking about the shooting and for
  10161.  
  10162. 11 turning say on the patio in a in for racial remarks.
  10163.  
  10164. 12 Q Okay. So you felt that say on the patio in a
  10165.  
  10166. 13 had Pete Petersen gait you because of statements or
  10167.  
  10168. 14 information that you provided related to the shooting
  10169.  
  10170. 15 RAUTed during the marriage meme brown?
  10171.  
  10172. 16 A No.
  10173.  
  10174. 17 Q Okay. What was it that you took position then
  10175.  
  10176. 18 as it relates to retaliation?
  10177.  
  10178. 19 A Complaints that I made to the way I thought
  10179.  
  10180. 20 this investigated.
  10181.  
  10182. 21 Q You maid dissatisfied as to the way incident
  10183.  
  10184. 22 RAUTed during the marriage meme brown investigate?
  10185.  
  10186. 23 ATTORNEY2: This is complaint you made to
  10187.  
  10188. 24 Ms. Minor.
  10189.  
  10190. 25 THE WITNESS: Well, there was.
  10191. 182
  10192.  
  10193.  
  10194.  
  10195.  
  10196.  
  10197.  
  10198. 1 ATTORNEY2: Separate one that Heidi erotica
  10199.  
  10200. 2 was.
  10201.  
  10202. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  10203.  
  10204. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Yes meaning?
  10205.  
  10206. 5 A There was another complaint that I made to
  10207.  
  10208. 6 human resources.
  10209.  
  10210. 7 Q And how did you do you make that complaint was
  10211.  
  10212. 8 it in brig or just?
  10213.  
  10214. 9 A In writing.
  10215.  
  10216. 10 Q And did they how did you make how did you give
  10217.  
  10218. 11 this writing to human resources?
  10219.  
  10220. 12 A I guess I can't talk about the attorney-client
  10221.  
  10222. 13 privilege so I did there was something on August 4 I
  10223.  
  10224. 14 can't talk about it August 23rd or all of that 24th I
  10225.  
  10226. 15 emailed from my OUSD email in a to yards of soil Bryce
  10227.  
  10228. 16 OUSD human resources begging for help and I asked I
  10229.  
  10230. 17 told 92 to yards of soil Bryce that I had learned
  10231.  
  10232. 18 retaliation measures against me I had a separate
  10233.  
  10234. 19 paragraph because I didn't want to dress the shooting
  10235.  
  10236. 20 and investigation as a statement because of how I was
  10237.  
  10238. 21 treated on August 4th so I worded it that I have also
  10239.  
  10240. 22 other concerns they would like to privately to
  10241.  
  10242. 23 salespeople sick to imagine and people and fearful of
  10243.  
  10244. 24 retaliation.
  10245.  
  10246. 25 Q Okay so this is an email that you sent from
  10247. 183
  10248.  
  10249.  
  10250.  
  10251.  
  10252.  
  10253.  
  10254. 1 your official OUSD email to HR is that true?
  10255.  
  10256. 2 A Yes on August 23rd or 24th to in a tow yards
  10257.  
  10258. 3 of soil Bryce.
  10259.  
  10260. 4 Q August 4?
  10261.  
  10262. 5 A Yes.
  10263.  
  10264. 6 Q What took place?
  10265.  
  10266. 7 A A complaint Pete say on the patio in a and
  10267.  
  10268. 8 Luis silva Jew your.
  10269.  
  10270. 9 Q Who is Jew list?
  10271.  
  10272. 10 A Friend of say on the patio Floridas that
  10273.  
  10274. 11 worked as a program manage.
  10275.  
  10276. 12 Q What was it that Kawasaki you to complain
  10277.  
  10278. 13 about Pete say on the patio 92 and Luis junior?
  10279.  
  10280. 14 A On June 18 there was and on duty incident
  10281.  
  10282. 15 where chief say on the patio in a golf tournament
  10283.  
  10284. 16 called another African sergeant the N word among other
  10285.  
  10286. 17 things Luis silva junior participated in racial slurs
  10287.  
  10288. 18 on July 19 the African American segment went to Luis
  10289.  
  10290. 19 junior in the a.m. and complained to him he thought a
  10291.  
  10292. 20 complaint was made I thought a complaint was made I
  10293.  
  10294. 21 found out a week later a complaint was not made I had
  10295.  
  10296. 22 to make a the complaint for sergeant for the other
  10297.  
  10298. 23 African American sergeant and when I did I felt at that
  10299.  
  10300. 24 moment they need today ask questions about how the
  10301.  
  10302. 25 shooting was investigated.
  10303. 184
  10304.  
  10305.  
  10306.  
  10307.  
  10308.  
  10309.  
  10310. 1 Q Is it fair to say that the handling of Pete
  10311.  
  10312. 2 say on the patio in a's racial comments by OUSD led you
  10313.  
  10314. 3 then to question the way in which the investigation
  10315.  
  10316. 4 into the RAUTed during the marriage helium brown was
  10317.  
  10318. 5 taken place?
  10319.  
  10320. 6 A It further added that preclusion.
  10321.  
  10322. 7 Q So way in which the racial statements that
  10323.  
  10324. 8 Pete say on the patio in a had made the way that was
  10325.  
  10326. 9 investigated just caused you further concern and I
  10327.  
  10328. 10 would use the word skepticism as to the ways in which
  10329.  
  10330. 11 the RAUTed during the marriage helium brown incident
  10331.  
  10332. 12 OUSD is that true?
  10333.  
  10334. 13 A That would be correct.
  10335.  
  10336. 14 Q Do you know if Luis silva junior plaid any
  10337.  
  10338. 15 role investigate participating in the basing of RAUTed
  10339.  
  10340. 16 during the marriage helium brown incident?
  10341.  
  10342. 17 A No.
  10343.  
  10344. 18 Q Now, the complaint that you filed -- strike
  10345.  
  10346. 19 that the complaint that you wrote to in a to yards of
  10347.  
  10348. 20 soil Bryce?
  10349.  
  10350. 21 A Bryce.
  10351.  
  10352. 22 Q This content of that communication dealt with
  10353.  
  10354. 23 what I mean you were -- the con tent of the email that
  10355.  
  10356. 24 you sonnet in a to yards of soil Bryce related to the
  10357.  
  10358. 25 racial slurs that Pete say on the patio in a had made
  10359. 185
  10360.  
  10361.  
  10362.  
  10363.  
  10364.  
  10365.  
  10366. 1 or something else?
  10367.  
  10368. 2 A Yes.
  10369.  
  10370. 3 Q Well, the email to in a to yards of soil Bryce
  10371.  
  10372. 4 dealt with the retaliation measures that was going on
  10373.  
  10374. 5 at work.
  10375.  
  10376. 6 Q All right. What retaliation measures were
  10377.  
  10378. 7 going on at work?
  10379.  
  10380. 8 A Chief say on the patio in a's assistant
  10381.  
  10382. 9 generalny Wong told a bunch of officers something like
  10383.  
  10384. 10 this is what I was told something like don't worry
  10385.  
  10386. 11 say on the patio in a is goke beat this case he's going
  10387.  
  10388. 12 to fire John.
  10389.  
  10390. 13 ATTORNEY3: By John you mean you.
  10391.  
  10392. 14 THE WITNESS: Me.
  10393.  
  10394. 15 MR. POINTERQ. Do you know what officer?
  10395.  
  10396. 16 A Holly Matthews is the one that told me that.
  10397.  
  10398. 17 Q So it's your unking chief wrong made that
  10399.  
  10400. 18 statement to Ms. Matthews?
  10401.  
  10402. 19 A Nevertheless holly Matthews that told you
  10403.  
  10404. 20 about the statement that chief say on the patio in a's
  10405.  
  10406. 21 reportedly made is that true.
  10407.  
  10408. 22 A Yes.
  10409.  
  10410. 23 Q Okay. And do you know and do you know when
  10411.  
  10412. 24 about what time that statement was made by chief say on
  10413.  
  10414. 25 the patio in a's assistant?
  10415. 186
  10416.  
  10417.  
  10418.  
  10419.  
  10420.  
  10421.  
  10422. 1 A I learned about that statement on August 15th.
  10423.  
  10424. 2 Q And do you know why chief say on the patio in
  10425.  
  10426. 3 a -- strike that. Why do you believe chief say on the
  10427.  
  10428. 4 patio in a was retaliating?
  10429.  
  10430. 5 ATTORNEY4: Objection calls if witness to
  10431.  
  10432. 6 speculate.
  10433.  
  10434. 7 ATTORNEY2: It does retire him to speculate.
  10435.  
  10436. 8 ATTORNEY4: Can't read chief say on the patio
  10437.  
  10438. 9 in a's mind.
  10439.  
  10440. 10 MR. POINTER: I don't want you to read chief
  10441.  
  10442. 11 I'm asking you what you belief, same thing asks him to
  10443.  
  10444. 12 speculate.
  10445.  
  10446. 13 THE WITNESS: I spoke with chief say on the
  10447.  
  10448. 14 patio in a in July of 2011 and I was upset about him
  10449.  
  10450. 15 not disciplining officers can you repeat the question
  10451.  
  10452. 16 'cause I'm getting kind of emotional.
  10453.  
  10454. 17 MR. POINTERQ. I asked you?
  10455.  
  10456. 18 ATTORNEY4: Could you move your hands please
  10457.  
  10458. 19 sergeant thank you.
  10459.  
  10460. 20
  10461.  
  10462. 21 MR. POINTERQ.
  10463.  
  10464. 22 MR. POINTERQ. I was asking you why you leave
  10465.  
  10466. 23 in your mind chief say on the patio in a was
  10467.  
  10468. 24 retaliating against you?
  10469.  
  10470. 25 ATTORNEY4: Objection question retire the
  10471. 187
  10472.  
  10473.  
  10474.  
  10475.  
  10476.  
  10477.  
  10478. 1 witness to speculate.
  10479.  
  10480. 2 ATTORNEY2: Calls for speculation go ahead.
  10481.  
  10482. 3 ATTORNEY4: Additionally his opinion as to
  10483.  
  10484. 4 what someone braves there's a belief someone
  10485.  
  10486. 5 did something is not relevant nor reasonably calculate
  10487.  
  10488. 6 reasonable evidence.
  10489.  
  10490. 7 THE WITNESS: I was told chief say on the
  10491.  
  10492. 8 patio in a how he swindled millionaire $5000 for a
  10493.  
  10494. 9 police dog told them they would pay for a police dog
  10495.  
  10496. 10 $5000 get to name the dog bragged free from the Sonoma
  10497.  
  10498. 11 county sheriff's chief say on the patio in a also told
  10499.  
  10500. 12 me that him andny Wong trying to get a bank account
  10501.  
  10502. 13 say on the patio in a put duplex the courts on traffic
  10503.  
  10504. 14 violation into his own personal name he was trying to
  10505.  
  10506. 15 get a bank account with generalny Wong I also found out
  10507.  
  10508. 16 that lieu so end Pete say on the patio in a all the to
  10509.  
  10510. 17 motive scheme lieu silva bar Pete say on the patio in a
  10511.  
  10512. 18 were sending their personal cars down to a shop on 16
  10513.  
  10514. 19 avenue and employees at the Antioch office fourteenth
  10515.  
  10516. 20 and this is all were over charging the police cars to
  10517.  
  10518. 21 not be charged or be charged very minimal December
  10519.  
  10520. 22 silva bragged about it Pete silva bragged about it when
  10521.  
  10522. 23 I found out about these thicks made me think what else
  10523.  
  10524. 24 are you doing when I found out what say on the patio in
  10525.  
  10526. 25 a did with the African American sergeant not to
  10527. 188
  10528.  
  10529.  
  10530.  
  10531.  
  10532.  
  10533.  
  10534. 1 complain when I found out that he called another
  10535.  
  10536. 2 officer told him do not report what had happened in
  10537.  
  10538. 3 front of the African American who is a witness to the
  10539.  
  10540. 4 witness racial slurs with this thing I do don't sand
  10541.  
  10542. 5 louse nothing at all when I found out all this stuff
  10543.  
  10544. 6 signature year and a half and I'll answer I don't want
  10545.  
  10546. 7 to go I think I answered your question but sitting
  10547.  
  10548. 8 knowing all this information.
  10549.  
  10550. 9 Q Is there anything else related to Ms. Conduct
  10551.  
  10552. 10 by chief say on the patio in a that led you to belief
  10553.  
  10554. 11 and question the investigation into this Ryan brown?
  10555.  
  10556. 12 A Yes.
  10557.  
  10558. 13 Q What else?
  10559.  
  10560. 14 A Chief say on the patio in a or I can straited
  10561.  
  10562. 15 officers to not work their shifts or to on overtime
  10563.  
  10564. 16 drive the superintendent around on variouser rands or
  10565.  
  10566. 17 going to the anticipate while on duty getting overtime
  10567.  
  10568. 18 chief say on the patio in a also did this with a person
  10569.  
  10570. 19 that was friends one of the school board membership
  10571.  
  10572. 20 drove them around unlicensed political Tice marrow OPD
  10573.  
  10574. 21 as a commander and he was trying to apiece different
  10575.  
  10576. 22 political parties he donate add Brandon new police bike
  10577.  
  10578. 23 $15,000 chopper that was why owe tech but the police
  10579.  
  10580. 24 bike we want to be them was put into a chopper and it
  10581.  
  10582. 25 was supposed to be for parades all this stuff was
  10583. 189
  10584.  
  10585.  
  10586.  
  10587.  
  10588.  
  10589.  
  10590. 1 happening around this time.
  10591.  
  10592. 2 Q What is a chopper.
  10593.  
  10594. 3 A Like a muscle car or some sort of.
  10595.  
  10596. 4 ATTORNEY3: Customized motorcycle.
  10597.  
  10598. 5 MR. POINTER: Okay I got you customized
  10599.  
  10600. 6 motorcycle is what a chopper is.
  10601.  
  10602. 7 A 2 more incidents where chief say on the patio
  10603.  
  10604. 8 in a was trying to have a summer camp and it was called
  10605.  
  10606. 9 together we can I witnessed the owner of me Jimenez
  10607.  
  10608. 10 east fourteenth and high street south east corner he
  10609.  
  10610. 11 told chief say on the patio in a in front of me he
  10611.  
  10612. 12 would close to $300 for a T shirts chief say on the
  10613.  
  10614. 13 patio in a ordering 27 Hubbard dollars chief say on the
  10615.  
  10616. 14 patio in a used one of the officers my gel December
  10617.  
  10618. 15 lieu in a to go and collect money different businesses
  10619.  
  10620. 16 to fund this camp the guy from me Jimenez was upset
  10621.  
  10622. 17 that say on the patio in a collect money from him
  10623.  
  10624. 18 numerous times where I happened up a check he told
  10625.  
  10626. 19 December lieu in a collect 2700 last chance tell him
  10627.  
  10628. 20 that I will give him a accommodation chief say on the
  10629.  
  10630. 21 patio in a called a city koum member or a person who
  10631.  
  10632. 22 own add company getting the money from him saying that
  10633.  
  10634. 23 his other source fell through this guy ended up giving
  10635.  
  10636. 24 $2700 December lieu in a collect number the gay gave
  10637.  
  10638. 25 him the check saying that I'm I'll get this
  10639. 190
  10640.  
  10641.  
  10642.  
  10643.  
  10644.  
  10645.  
  10646. 1 accommodation and chief say on the patio in a bragged
  10647.  
  10648. 2 that he just came up on 27 from this guy but didn't
  10649.  
  10650. 3 collect from the organize guy from a go so for drunk
  10651.  
  10652. 4 driving around the time of August 4th.
  10653.  
  10654. 5 Q Separate incident?
  10655.  
  10656. 6 ATTORNEY4: Objection excuse me objection www
  10657.  
  10658. 7 and he was.
  10659.  
  10660. 8 ATTORNEY4: Excuse me I have to get out the
  10661.  
  10662. 9 words witness is not permitted to discuss aristocracies
  10663.  
  10664. 10 of individuals.
  10665.  
  10666. 11 MR. POINTERQ. What is your objection?
  10667.  
  10668. 12 ATTORNEY4: That the individual officer has a
  10669.  
  10670. 13 right to privacy castlety about an arrest conviction is
  10671.  
  10672. 14 another matter you can't make arrest of people public
  10673.  
  10674. 15 so I would ask that answer to be stricken as well all
  10675.  
  10676. 16 the answers that sergeant given to questions and the
  10677.  
  10678. 17 last ten minutes regarding chief say on the patio in
  10679.  
  10680. 18 a's allege fall feasance it is.
  10681.  
  10682. 19 ATTORNEY3: Are you asking to strike.
  10683.  
  10684. 20 MR. POINTER: Do you have anything further.
  10685.  
  10686. 21 ATTORNEY2: We're running out of time seven
  10687.  
  10688. 22 hours moving closer.
  10689.  
  10690. 23 ATTORNEY4: The statements made by the
  10691.  
  10692. 24 witness.
  10693.  
  10694. 25 MR. POINTER: What is the o.k.
  10695. 191
  10696.  
  10697.  
  10698.  
  10699.  
  10700.  
  10701.  
  10702. 1 ATTORNEY4: Throughout this proceeding
  10703.  
  10704. 2 discovery of admissible stricken.
  10705.  
  10706. 3 MR. POINTER: Okay thank you.
  10707.  
  10708. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Now, keep going you said there
  10709.  
  10710. 5 was an officer Fremont insurance go so for DUI?
  10711.  
  10712. 6 A I believe so yes.
  10713.  
  10714. 7 Q Okay. And how did chief say on the patio in a
  10715.  
  10716. 8 deal with that particular situation?
  10717.  
  10718. 9 ATTORNEY4: Objection.
  10719.  
  10720. 10 MR. POINTERQ. In a way?
  10721.  
  10722. 11 ATTORNEY4: Objection.
  10723.  
  10724. 12 MR. POINTER: Can I get my question objection
  10725.  
  10726. 13 damn question has even been asked you.
  10727.  
  10728. 14 ATTORNEY3: I'm with him.
  10729.  
  10730. 15 ATTORNEY2: You don't have to yell we're not
  10731.  
  10732. 16 that far away.
  10733.  
  10734. 17 MR. POINTER: I mean very patient and
  10735.  
  10736. 18 professional and all of that by my running out okay
  10737.  
  10738. 19 just like the time is running out 'cause your wasting
  10739.  
  10740. 20 hymn my time relatives we all know in lawyering 101
  10741.  
  10742. 21 east may mud relatives objection in a deposition.
  10743.  
  10744. 22 ATTORNEY2: We aproverbialuate your just ask
  10745.  
  10746. 23 the question so we can get it out on the table.
  10747.  
  10748. 24 MR. POINTER: Thank you.
  10749.  
  10750. 25 ATTORNEY4: I didn't finish my objection I
  10751. 192
  10752.  
  10753.  
  10754.  
  10755.  
  10756.  
  10757.  
  10758. 1 wanted to object before he answered a question that any
  10759.  
  10760. 2 testimony.
  10761.  
  10762. 3 MR. POINTER: I haven't gotten the question
  10763.  
  10764. 4 out is the whole point I haven't gotten the question
  10765.  
  10766. 5 out so I got you if you want an objection would you
  10767.  
  10768. 6 please hold on off answering the until his o.k. is
  10769.  
  10770. 7 lodged.
  10771.  
  10772. 8 A Yes.
  10773.  
  10774. 9 MR. POINTERQ. What was it that chief say on
  10775.  
  10776. 10 the patio in a did as it relates officer Fremont
  10777.  
  10778. 11 insurance go so that made you question his handling of
  10779.  
  10780. 12 the RAUTed during the marriage helium brown affair
  10781.  
  10782. 13 there's an objection?
  10783.  
  10784. 14 ATTORNEY4: Witness drunk driving arrest or
  10785.  
  10786. 15 any other charge made against police officer is
  10787.  
  10788. 16 privileged and comfortable for that officer sergeant
  10789.  
  10790. 17 does not have a right to unilaterally waive that
  10791.  
  10792. 18 privilege.
  10793.  
  10794. 19 MR. POINTER: Okay thank you.
  10795.  
  10796. 20 MR. POINTERQ. Let's go?
  10797.  
  10798. 21 A Sure. I was told by I believe it was sergeant
  10799.  
  10800. 22 Mike Anderson that he over heard say on the patio in a
  10801.  
  10802. 23 tell him that do not investigate this let the DA's
  10803.  
  10804. 24 office handle it on their side but do not do an IE on
  10805.  
  10806. 25 this.
  10807. 193
  10808.  
  10809.  
  10810.  
  10811.  
  10812.  
  10813.  
  10814. 1 Q Okay. Now, you mentioned something bat's name
  10815.  
  10816. 2 in relation to the conduct of Ms. Conduct according to
  10817.  
  10818. 3 you of chief say on the patio in a on a couple of
  10819.  
  10820. 4 occasions one of which is just the situation regarding
  10821.  
  10822. 5 officer Fremont insurance go so correct?
  10823.  
  10824. 6 A Yes.
  10825.  
  10826. 7 Q Okay. It was your understanding that sergeant
  10827.  
  10828. 8 bat was to conduct some type of investigation into
  10829.  
  10830. 9 officer Fremont insurance go so's reported misconduct
  10831.  
  10832. 10 and arrest is that true?
  10833.  
  10834. 11 ATTORNEY4: Objection that's information
  10835.  
  10836. 12 privilege and comfortable.
  10837.  
  10838. 13 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat it. Question
  10839.  
  10840. 14 that seeks information privilege comfortable does not
  10841.  
  10842. 15 have the right to disclose that.
  10843.  
  10844. 16 MR. POINTERQ. Okay anything else any other
  10845.  
  10846. 17 o.k.s thank you?
  10847.  
  10848. 18 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question.
  10849.  
  10850. 19 MR. POINTERQ. Yeah sure it's your
  10851.  
  10852. 20 understanding that sergeant bat was to conduct some
  10853.  
  10854. 21 order of investigation into officer Fremont insurance
  10855.  
  10856. 22 go sos arrest assist it reals to this DUI charge?
  10857.  
  10858. 23 ATTORNEY4: Same objection.
  10859.  
  10860. 24 A I don't that would be a good question officer
  10861.  
  10862. 25 Fremont insurance go so should have I don't know it's
  10863. 194
  10864.  
  10865.  
  10866.  
  10867.  
  10868.  
  10869.  
  10870. 1 my I understanding that say on the patio in a should
  10871.  
  10872. 2 have gone through his direct supervisor and forwarded
  10873.  
  10874. 3 off to be investigated.
  10875.  
  10876. 4 Q Okay. What is your understanding as it
  10877.  
  10878. 5 relates to sergeant bats participation if any as
  10879.  
  10880. 6 relates to officer Fremont insurance go so's arrest?
  10881.  
  10882. 7 ATTORNEY4: Objection www I don't know.
  10883.  
  10884. 8 MR. POINTERQ. Your memory is that chief
  10885.  
  10886. 9 say on the patio in a directed sergeant bat not to
  10887.  
  10888. 10 investigate this incident?
  10889.  
  10890. 11 A That's what I was told I didn't here that.
  10891.  
  10892. 12 Q Okay. And but sergeant Mike Anderson was a
  10893.  
  10894. 13 witness to that incident to that conversation?
  10895.  
  10896. 14 A I believe so it was him I'm not hundred
  10897.  
  10898. 15 percent.
  10899.  
  10900. 16 Q Okay. Is there any other misconduct that
  10901.  
  10902. 17 you're aware of that chief say on the patio in a
  10903.  
  10904. 18 engaged in that caused you to question his handling of
  10905.  
  10906. 19 the RAUTed during the marriage helium brown affair?
  10907.  
  10908. 20 ATTORNEY4: Objection that question may
  10909.  
  10910. 21 intrude into areas contained personal file and the
  10911.  
  10912. 22 Keefe of police.
  10913.  
  10914. 23 ATTORNEY2: If I told your mike also.
  10915.  
  10916. 24 ATTORNEY4: Discipline etc. any misfeasance
  10917.  
  10918. 25 east may mud ledged chief or any other personal file
  10919. 195
  10920.  
  10921.  
  10922.  
  10923.  
  10924.  
  10925.  
  10926. 1 there are not a subject and this witness can't invade
  10927.  
  10928. 2 that privilege.
  10929.  
  10930. 3 ATTORNEY2: Also calls for speculation he just
  10931.  
  10932. 4 want foster freeze foe if there was any other.
  10933.  
  10934. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so.
  10935.  
  10936. 6 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Now, 83 had mentioned
  10937.  
  10938. 7 that you were upset or not happy baptize fact that
  10939.  
  10940. 8 chief say on the patio in a had not disciplined
  10941.  
  10942. 9 officers?
  10943.  
  10944. 10 A Yes.
  10945.  
  10946. 11 Q What do you feel officers conduct engaged in?
  10947.  
  10948. 12 ATTORNEY4: I will object to this question
  10949.  
  10950. 13 misconduct police officers is not an issue which can be
  10951.  
  10952. 14 addressed in a deposition by an individual who does not
  10953.  
  10954. 15 share that privilege these officers have a right
  10955.  
  10956. 16 Froogle court misconduct alleged against them subject
  10957.  
  10958. 17 to the privacy and comfortable rights and may not be
  10959.  
  10960. 18 disclosed by this witnesses in a deposition it's really
  10961.  
  10962. 19 owe fence against the ground ask the question.
  10963.  
  10964. 20 MR. POINTER: I don't know the ground we live
  10965.  
  10966. 21 in American.
  10967.  
  10968. 22 ATTORNEY4: You are silent about all these
  10969.  
  10970. 23 issues.
  10971.  
  10972. 24 MR. POINTER: Exhaust he new it is law
  10973.  
  10974. 25 presumably the privilege that you're talking about
  10975. 196
  10976.  
  10977.  
  10978.  
  10979.  
  10980.  
  10981.  
  10982. 1 unintelligible and they are not the 11th a federal
  10983.  
  10984. 2 litigation.
  10985.  
  10986. 3 ATTORNEY4: That's not true.
  10987.  
  10988. 4 MR. POINTER: We may disagree lodged and now
  10989.  
  10990. 5 it's on the witness would you please answer the
  10991.  
  10992. 6 question.
  10993.  
  10994. 7 A Can you please repeat it.
  10995.  
  10996. 8 MR. POINTERQ. You were not happy that
  10997.  
  10998. 9 officer W-RS not disciplined?
  10999.  
  11000. 10 A That's correct.
  11001.  
  11002. 11 Q What was the conduct or misconduct that these
  11003.  
  11004. 12 officers were engaged in that was not disciplined?
  11005.  
  11006. 13 ATTORNEY2: Do not mention any officer by name
  11007.  
  11008. 14 or position.
  11009.  
  11010. 15 ATTORNEY4: Same objection I lodged earlier.
  11011.  
  11012. 16 THE WITNESS: Okay untruthfulness.
  11013.  
  11014. 17 Q Okay.
  11015.  
  11016. 18 A Theft, failure to report, inappropriate
  11017.  
  11018. 19 unethical behavior.
  11019.  
  11020. 20 Q Is that it?
  11021.  
  11022. 21 A That's about it.
  11023.  
  11024. 22 Q And in is the conduct that you felt should
  11025.  
  11026. 23 have been disciplined something that urs understanding
  11027.  
  11028. 24 chief say on the patio that was aware of?
  11029.  
  11030. 25 A I'm going take off my tie.
  11031. 197
  11032.  
  11033.  
  11034.  
  11035.  
  11036.  
  11037.  
  11038. 1 Q That's fine?
  11039.  
  11040. 2 ATTORNEY4: Belated objection same one I made
  11041.  
  11042. 3 earlier.
  11043.  
  11044. 4 ATTORNEY3: Obligate to go taking his tie off.
  11045.  
  11046. 5 MR. POINTERQ. The fill why you are to
  11047.  
  11048. 6 discipline officers is that a feeling that you have had
  11049.  
  11050. 7 in other instances besides the chalk you spoke to chief
  11051.  
  11052. 8 say on the patio in a about on or about July of 2011?
  11053.  
  11054. 9 A I believe so.
  11055.  
  11056. 10 Q Were any of the officers who were engaged in
  11057.  
  11058. 11 the conduct that you spoke to the chief about in
  11059.  
  11060. 12 July 2011 -- strike that was sergeant bat one of the
  11061.  
  11062. 13 officers whom you spoke to the chief about engaging in
  11063.  
  11064. 14 misconduct that you described on July of 2011?
  11065.  
  11066. 15 ATTORNEY2: As to racial.
  11067.  
  11068. 16 MR. POINTER: Excuse me.
  11069.  
  11070. 17 ATTORNEY2: The racial issue.
  11071.  
  11072. 18 MR. POINTER: Well, he no it's a
  11073.  
  11074. 19 untruthfulness theft failure to report inappropriate
  11075.  
  11076. 20 unethical behavior.
  11077.  
  11078. 21 A Yes.
  11079.  
  11080. 22 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. What was the conduct
  11081.  
  11082. 23 that you believe sergeant bat engaged in that failed
  11083.  
  11084. 24 into the category of untruthfulness theft failure to
  11085.  
  11086. 25 report or inappropriate unethical behavior?
  11087. 198
  11088.  
  11089.  
  11090.  
  11091.  
  11092.  
  11093.  
  11094. 1 ATTORNEY2: Don't answer that.
  11095.  
  11096. 2 ATTORNEY3: I see a conflict of interest here
  11097.  
  11098. 3 if you're trying to help sergeant bat how are you
  11099.  
  11100. 4 helping sergeant bell lieu is a.
  11101.  
  11102. 5 ATTORNEY2: I got to be very honest with you
  11103.  
  11104. 6 challenging me on a conflict of interest.
  11105.  
  11106. 7 ATTORNEY3: Well, that's what I see.
  11107.  
  11108. 8 ATTORNEY2: We don't want to get into
  11109.  
  11110. 9 conflicts of interest here I want to promise you that
  11111.  
  11112. 10 we don't want to bet into conflicts of interest now
  11113.  
  11114. 11 what I don't.
  11115.  
  11116. 12 MR. POINTER: Your objection is fine.
  11117.  
  11118. 13 ATTORNEY2: What I don't want officer belieu
  11119.  
  11120. 14 is a to be testifying about officer bat are matters
  11121.  
  11122. 15 unrelated to this shooting and that I think has privacy
  11123.  
  11124. 16 sergeant bell but is a should snot be obligated to
  11125.  
  11126. 17 provide information.
  11127.  
  11128. 18 MR. POINTER: Right anything else.
  11129.  
  11130. 19 ATTORNEY4: Objection.
  11131.  
  11132. 20 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  11133.  
  11134. 21 MR. POINTER: At what conduct did sergeant bat
  11135.  
  11136. 22 engaged in that you complain today the chief about.
  11137.  
  11138. 23 Q On or about July 2011?
  11139.  
  11140. 24 A I told him he had a bottle of alcohol in his
  11141.  
  11142. 25 desk brother that I saw him drink or you e d light saw
  11143. 199
  11144.  
  11145.  
  11146.  
  11147.  
  11148.  
  11149.  
  11150. 1 him poor the alcohol into a cup.
  11151.  
  11152. 2 Q And that was while sergeant bat was on duty?
  11153.  
  11154. 3 ATTORNEY4: Standing objection committed by
  11155.  
  11156. 4 sergeant bat this witness will testify to.
  11157.  
  11158. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  11159.  
  11160. 6 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. And when you
  11161.  
  11162. 7 communicated this complaint specifically related to
  11163.  
  11164. 8 sergeant bat did you put that in writing?
  11165.  
  11166. 9 A No.
  11167.  
  11168. 10 Q Did you understand that you were make ago
  11169.  
  11170. 11 formal complaint to the chief related to sergeant bat?
  11171.  
  11172. 12 A I honestly did not perceive that.
  11173.  
  11174. 13 Q Okay?
  11175.  
  11176. 14 A However that sounds I brought it you up to a
  11177.  
  11178. 15 sense of maybe he needed help like a post traumatic
  11179.  
  11180. 16 stress help.
  11181.  
  11182. 17 Q So this is after the incident regarding RAUTed
  11183.  
  11184. 18 during the marriage helium brown?
  11185.  
  11186. 19 A Yes.
  11187.  
  11188. 20 Q Had you received any information -- strike
  11189.  
  11190. 21 that were you aware of any charges prior to the
  11191.  
  11192. 22 accident relate today RAUTed during the marriage helium
  11193.  
  11194. 23 brown or sergeant bat had drank any type of alcoholic
  11195.  
  11196. 24 beverage while on duty?
  11197.  
  11198. 25 A No.
  11199. 200
  11200.  
  11201.  
  11202.  
  11203.  
  11204.  
  11205.  
  11206. 1 Q So this is information this is the first time
  11207.  
  11208. 2 that you were aware that sergeant bat had been drinking
  11209.  
  11210. 3 while he was on the job is that true?
  11211.  
  11212. 4 ATTORNEY2: I'm not sure he said he was
  11213.  
  11214. 5 dricking on the job.
  11215.  
  11216. 6 ATTORNEY4: He say he poored.
  11217.  
  11218. 7 THE WITNESS: Honest that is what he was doing
  11219.  
  11220. 8 I just saw him pooring.
  11221.  
  11222. 9 MR. POINTERQ. What kind of alcohol was this?
  11223.  
  11224. 10 A Wild Turkey.
  11225.  
  11226. 11 Q Did you see him what did he with the alcohol.
  11227.  
  11228. 12 A No.
  11229.  
  11230. 13 Q It was a bottle on desk?
  11231.  
  11232. 14 A He personally showed the from his desk
  11233.  
  11234. 15 previous to that.
  11235.  
  11236. 16 Q When did he show you this bottle that was in
  11237.  
  11238. 17 his desk?
  11239.  
  11240. 18 A I think it was around April 2011 okay.
  11241.  
  11242. 19 Q Okay also after the incident regarding
  11243.  
  11244. 20 Mr. Brown true?
  11245.  
  11246. 21 A Yes.
  11247.  
  11248. 22 Q What did the chief say in response to this
  11249.  
  11250. 23 information you gave him?
  11251.  
  11252. 24 A He was concerned.
  11253.  
  11254. 25 Q Have you had any further conversations with
  11255. 201
  11256.  
  11257.  
  11258.  
  11259.  
  11260.  
  11261.  
  11262. 1 sergeant bat related to the alcohol?
  11263.  
  11264. 2 A No.
  11265.  
  11266. 3 Q Was there any response well, strike that what
  11267.  
  11268. 4 response did you receive if any to your email to
  11269.  
  11270. 5 Ms. Bryce?
  11271.  
  11272. 6 A She said thank you so much I will Fahd this to
  11273.  
  11274. 7 legal.
  11275.  
  11276. 8 Q Did you receive any further contact from
  11277.  
  11278. 9 anybody?
  11279.  
  11280. 10 A Never.
  11281.  
  11282. 11 Q OUSD regarding the issues you raised in that
  11283.  
  11284. 12 email you sent to Ms. Bryce?
  11285.  
  11286. 13 A Never.
  11287.  
  11288. 14 Q Are there any other acts of retaliation you
  11289.  
  11290. 15 feel have been directed against you by chief say on the
  11291.  
  11292. 16 patio in a?
  11293.  
  11294. 17 A Yes.
  11295.  
  11296. 18 Q What are those?
  11297.  
  11298. 19 A Again, it's probably attorney-client
  11299.  
  11300. 20 privilege.
  11301.  
  11302. 21 MR. POINTER: We don't want.
  11303.  
  11304. 22 ATTORNEY2: If it is let's not get into it.
  11305.  
  11306. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
  11307.  
  11308. 24 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to instruct you not to
  11309.  
  11310. 25 answer.
  11311. 202
  11312.  
  11313.  
  11314.  
  11315.  
  11316.  
  11317.  
  11318. 1 MR. POINTERQ. Anything other than what you
  11319.  
  11320. 2 were going to covered by the attorney-client privilege?
  11321.  
  11322. 3 A No.
  11323.  
  11324. 4 Q The use of racial slurring by employees OUSD
  11325.  
  11326. 5 aware of other than the incidents that you have already
  11327.  
  11328. 6 testified to regarding chief say on the patio in a?
  11329.  
  11330. 7 A Racial slurs.
  11331.  
  11332. 8 Q Yes?
  11333.  
  11334. 9 A No.
  11335.  
  11336. 10 Q Other type of slurs that you are you're aware
  11337.  
  11338. 11 of?
  11339.  
  11340. 12 A I made a distinction because chief say on the
  11341.  
  11342. 13 patio Florida called me a talking about.
  11343.  
  11344. 14 Q And what time point in time was that?
  11345.  
  11346. 15 A April 2011.
  11347.  
  11348. 16 Q And describe the course of that conversation
  11349.  
  11350. 17 or how those remarks on were made?
  11351.  
  11352. 18 A Chief say on the patio in a transposed my face
  11353.  
  11354. 19 and another officer's face poster of a movie belieu is
  11355.  
  11356. 20 a and that officer's name above face pictures were
  11357.  
  11358. 21 people holding each other he sent the this to me
  11359.  
  11360. 22 through an email and sent it to the other officer
  11361.  
  11362. 23 assistant Jane Wong her Wal-Mart incident wall and I
  11363.  
  11364. 24 was just bringing to sheriff deputies in from Alameda
  11365.  
  11366. 25 county into the office when they saw it looked up at it
  11367. 203
  11368.  
  11369.  
  11370.  
  11371.  
  11372.  
  11373.  
  11374. 1 and I saw it and I went and dealt with chief say on the
  11375.  
  11376. 2 patio in a why did you put this up here why did you
  11377.  
  11378. 3 send this to embarrassing and his words were you guys
  11379.  
  11380. 4 are cut couple or look like a couple of fags.
  11381.  
  11382. 5 Q And he said this email was sent to you
  11383.  
  11384. 6 sometime around April 2011?
  11385.  
  11386. 7 A The email was sent to me in February around
  11387.  
  11388. 8 from the 23rd, two to 24th or 27th somewhere around
  11389.  
  11390. 9 there.
  11391.  
  11392. 10 Q During the year 2011?
  11393.  
  11394. 11 A Yes.
  11395.  
  11396. 12 Q And what movie poster was it?
  11397.  
  11398. 13 A Step brothers little fair well.
  11399.  
  11400. 14 Q Were you amused by what the chief had done?
  11401.  
  11402. 15 A Cause it was funny but seeing it later in
  11403.  
  11404. 16 generalny Wong's it wasn't tour and you know.
  11405.  
  11406. 17 Q So when did that antibiotic can you give me a
  11407.  
  11408. 18 date when you sate it in Generalny Wong's office?
  11409.  
  11410. 19 A Activity shooter training.
  11411.  
  11412. 20 Q Also 2011.
  11413.  
  11414. 21 A Yes.
  11415.  
  11416. 22 Q Did the two Alma requesting a hearing
  11417.  
  11418. 23 immediate Daniels counselty see this position of
  11419.  
  11420. 24 control substances?
  11421.  
  11422. 25 A I believe they did.
  11423. 204
  11424.  
  11425.  
  11426.  
  11427.  
  11428.  
  11429.  
  11430. 1 Q What led you to believe?
  11431.  
  11432. 2 A 1 of them started laughing.
  11433.  
  11434. 3 Q And did you file any type of complaint about
  11435.  
  11436. 4 this incident?
  11437.  
  11438. 5 A Yes.
  11439.  
  11440. 6 Q And when did you file that complaint?
  11441.  
  11442. 7 A I want to say December or January of 2011.
  11443.  
  11444. 8 Q And was that complaint that you filed in
  11445.  
  11446. 9 writing?
  11447.  
  11448. 10 A Yes.
  11449.  
  11450. 11 Q Okay. Who did you file it with?
  11451.  
  11452. 12 A The EEOC.
  11453.  
  11454. 13 Q What's the status of that complaint?
  11455.  
  11456. 14 A They are suppose to be investigate soon I
  11457.  
  11458. 15 don't know when.
  11459.  
  11460. 16 Q Do you still have that can you answer the
  11461.  
  11462. 17 question cytosis that email?
  11463.  
  11464. 18 A No.
  11465.  
  11466. 19 Q I n e have the picture but I don't travelers
  11467.  
  11468. 20 check the email.
  11469.  
  11470. 21 Q When you say you have picture you mean you
  11471.  
  11472. 22 attachment, I have the actually picture I saved the
  11473.  
  11474. 23 picture but I don't have the email from him.
  11475.  
  11476. 24 Q Okay I ask that you provide that to the
  11477.  
  11478. 25 counsel?
  11479. 205
  11480.  
  11481.  
  11482.  
  11483.  
  11484.  
  11485.  
  11486. 1 ATTORNEY3: What about the other email he said
  11487.  
  11488. 2 August 23rd 24th.
  11489.  
  11490. 3 MR. POINTER: Good question.
  11491.  
  11492. 4 MR. POINTERQ. In a to yards of soil Bryce?
  11493.  
  11494. 5 A The only email I have from in a to yards of
  11495.  
  11496. 6 soil Bryce is from August 29th.
  11497.  
  11498. 7 Q And what was discuss what was mentioned in
  11499.  
  11500. 8 that email?
  11501.  
  11502. 9 A In that email I say that I learned information
  11503.  
  11504. 10 about that lieu silva was arming himself and his
  11505.  
  11506. 11 position did not require to I complained in that email
  11507.  
  11508. 12 that I had recently found out that Luis silva was going
  11509.  
  11510. 13 to be my captain after I made the complaint about chief
  11511.  
  11512. 14 say on the patio in a my protest for that was is that
  11513.  
  11514. 15 he was the subject of my complaint his position was not
  11515.  
  11516. 16 in law enforcement position at the time he was required
  11517.  
  11518. 17 police officer and my complaint that was in that body
  11519.  
  11520. 18 of email I believe was how could you attempt to think
  11521.  
  11522. 19 about putting someone I complained about for racial
  11523.  
  11524. 20 slurs and fair I couldn't like to report African
  11525.  
  11526. 21 American supervisor I said it was a hostile work
  11527.  
  11528. 22 environment and in that complaint I said that I am also
  11529.  
  11530. 23 concerned about sergeant bat's mental state.
  11531.  
  11532. 24 Q What was et that led you to concern?
  11533.  
  11534. 25 A Clean his firearm for a long period of time
  11535. 206
  11536.  
  11537.  
  11538.  
  11539.  
  11540.  
  11541.  
  11542. 1 this was about I'd say may or June.
  11543.  
  11544. 2 Q 2011. When you say?
  11545.  
  11546. 3 A It was around the time the alcohol.
  11547.  
  11548. 4 Q When you say cleaning for long period of time
  11549.  
  11550. 5 can you describe anything further?
  11551.  
  11552. 6 A I don't so here's I left the office at nine I
  11553.  
  11554. 7 returned at 11 he was still in the same position
  11555.  
  11556. 8 cleaning his weapon I did V no idea came back I can't
  11557.  
  11558. 9 tell you what he did peer to me he was still on there
  11559.  
  11560. 10 but when I made remarks on say on the patio in a about
  11561.  
  11562. 11 the alcohol I included seeing him in the armory
  11563.  
  11564. 12 cleaning his weapon and it was never a formal complaint
  11565.  
  11566. 13 about him simply does he need help.
  11567.  
  11568. 14 Q Okay. And when you dolled chief about this
  11569.  
  11570. 15 incident did the chief respond any kind of way about
  11571.  
  11572. 16 that conversation?
  11573.  
  11574. 17 A He said he would deal with it and thank you.
  11575.  
  11576. 18 Q Now, the email that you sent August 29 lieu
  11577.  
  11578. 19 silva?
  11579.  
  11580. 20 A Yes.
  11581.  
  11582. 21 Q From what email did you send that?
  11583.  
  11584. 22 A My OUSD.
  11585.  
  11586. 23 Q And you sent that to whom?
  11587.  
  11588. 24 A In a to yards of soil Bryce.
  11589.  
  11590. 25 Q Any other emails?
  11591. 207
  11592.  
  11593.  
  11594.  
  11595.  
  11596.  
  11597.  
  11598. 1 A Which I don't have position I know what I mutt
  11599.  
  11600. 2 in it August 23rd or 24th to in a to yards of soil
  11601.  
  11602. 3 Bryce I reference that email in my August 29th email to
  11603.  
  11604. 4 in a to yards of soil Bryce.
  11605.  
  11606. 5 Q When you say you erroneous that email what
  11607.  
  11608. 6 email are you referring to?
  11609.  
  11610. 7 A I reference HR the one where I quoted you
  11611.  
  11612. 8 saying they learned of retaliatory measures privately
  11613.  
  11614. 9 that was an email on August 23 or
  11615.  
  11616. 10 24th August 29th email I have I do not have the 23rd I
  11617.  
  11618. 11 do have.
  11619.  
  11620. 12 Q Have you received any written communication as
  11621.  
  11622. 13 it relates to any -- strike that. Interviewed by
  11623.  
  11624. 14 anyone other than an attorney as relates the complacent
  11625.  
  11626. 15 you made?
  11627.  
  11628. 16 A Yes from KA*EFPLT whom.
  11629.  
  11630. 17 A The FBI and U.S. attorney.
  11631.  
  11632. 18 Q Anyone else?
  11633.  
  11634. 19 A No.
  11635.  
  11636. 20 Q Okay. So as far as you're aware there hasn't
  11637.  
  11638. 21 been any type of OUSD EUFRPLT that would calls for
  11639.  
  11640. 22 speculation?
  11641.  
  11642. 23 THE WITNESS: None what so officer I'm I had
  11643.  
  11644. 24 to say that.
  11645.  
  11646. 25 MR. POINTERQ. No one followed up on these
  11647. 208
  11648.  
  11649.  
  11650.  
  11651.  
  11652.  
  11653.  
  11654. 1 advise chief certify in a HR about?
  11655.  
  11656. 2 A Absolutely not.
  11657.  
  11658. 3 Q Was sergeant bat involved at tow motive seem
  11659.  
  11660. 4 district repairs to patrol cars?
  11661.  
  11662. 5 A I would like to clear up something two
  11663.  
  11664. 6 questions or maybe previous question are you implying
  11665.  
  11666. 7 the district knows about this stuff that I had told you
  11667.  
  11668. 8 so your question was have they investigated any of your
  11669.  
  11670. 9 complaints.
  11671.  
  11672. 10 Q All right.
  11673.  
  11674. 11 A So I just want to assume the district knows
  11675.  
  11676. 12 about that stuff it's my belief they do not know that
  11677.  
  11678. 13 stuff.
  11679.  
  11680. 14 Q What are when we say when I say the district I
  11681.  
  11682. 15 mean the chief I mean any other employee that has some
  11683.  
  11684. 16 responsibility that you're aware of as it relates
  11685.  
  11686. 17 following up in investigate complaints that are made by
  11687.  
  11688. 18 officers does that make sense to you?
  11689.  
  11690. 19 A No.
  11691.  
  11692. 20 Q Okay. I mean if it doesn't?
  11693.  
  11694. 21 ATTORNEY2: I'm not sure we're really canine
  11695.  
  11696. 22 indicating here.
  11697.  
  11698. 23 MR. POINTER: Right go ahead what is your
  11699.  
  11700. 24 question.
  11701.  
  11702. 25 MR. POINTERQ. When you were make ago
  11703. 209
  11704.  
  11705.  
  11706.  
  11707.  
  11708.  
  11709.  
  11710. 1 distinction I believe sergeant belieu is a I don't want
  11711.  
  11712. 2 do assume the district all these complaints is that
  11713.  
  11714. 3 true?
  11715.  
  11716. 4 A Yeah, I those events that I described they
  11717.  
  11718. 5 suspect are criminal I believe OUSD doesn't know
  11719.  
  11720. 6 anything about that the events that were taking place
  11721.  
  11722. 7 so I didn't know if you were including that portion in
  11723.  
  11724. 8 it the emails that I have sent HR as they have never
  11725.  
  11726. 9 followed criminal stuff.
  11727.  
  11728. 10 Q Okay.
  11729.  
  11730. 11 A That's why I just want to clarify that.
  11731.  
  11732. 12 Q Fair enough who have you told if anybody auto
  11733.  
  11734. 13 motive seem have you told anybody in the district about
  11735.  
  11736. 14 this auto motive scheme?
  11737.  
  11738. 15 A No.
  11739.  
  11740. 16 Q And you said sergeant bat was involved?
  11741.  
  11742. 17 ATTORNEY2: That calls for speculation but
  11743.  
  11744. 18 answer the question.
  11745.  
  11746. 19 ATTORNEY4: Join in the objection.
  11747.  
  11748. 20 THE WITNESS: I never heard sergeant bat say
  11749.  
  11750. 21 specifically he was involved in something criminal so I
  11751.  
  11752. 22 know I have knowledge that he took a car personal cars
  11753.  
  11754. 23 down there I believe he told me that I did not get time
  11755.  
  11756. 24 on the misdeamenor pregnancy that he was doing anything
  11757.  
  11758. 25 illegal I got the impression from say on the patio in a
  11759. 210
  11760.  
  11761.  
  11762.  
  11763.  
  11764.  
  11765.  
  11766. 1 and lieu silva that something wasn't right as far as
  11767.  
  11768. 2 why we were there why our account switch from San lee
  11769.  
  11770. 3 an do for the record to this one.
  11771.  
  11772. 4 Q Name of the business?
  11773.  
  11774. 5 A Quality tune up.
  11775.  
  11776. 6 Q And the location of this quality tune up?
  11777.  
  11778. 7 A 1300 block of 16th avenue.
  11779.  
  11780. 8 Q Is there any particular person that you're
  11781.  
  11782. 9 aware of OUSD quality tune up?
  11783.  
  11784. 10 A Bruce.
  11785.  
  11786. 11 Q By chance do you know his last name?
  11787.  
  11788. 12 A No.
  11789.  
  11790. 13 Q What about did you tell anybody O at OUSD
  11791.  
  11792. 14 summer camp together we can?
  11793.  
  11794. 15 A No but.
  11795.  
  11796. 16 ATTORNEY2: Just answer the question did you
  11797.  
  11798. 17 tell anybody at OUSD about this summer camp incident
  11799.  
  11800. 18 whatever that may have been.
  11801.  
  11802. 19 A Can I have a home with him real quick.
  11803.  
  11804. 20 MR. POINTER: Off the record.
  11805.  
  11806. 21 (Recess taken from 4:13 p.m. to 4:23
  11807.  
  11808. 22 p.m.)
  11809.  
  11810. 23 MR. POINTERQ. Are there any other
  11811.  
  11812. 24 conversations that you had with chief certify in a
  11813.  
  11814. 25 other than those we already discuss so far today that
  11815. 211
  11816.  
  11817.  
  11818.  
  11819.  
  11820.  
  11821.  
  11822. 1 led yow believe that the investigation into the
  11823.  
  11824. 2 incident related to RAUTed during the marriage helium
  11825.  
  11826. 3 brown has been compromised?
  11827.  
  11828. 4 ATTORNEY2: I don't believe he said
  11829.  
  11830. 5 compromise.
  11831.  
  11832. 6 ATTORNEY3: I think he said cover up.
  11833.  
  11834. 7 MR. POINTER: Well, that's my word.
  11835.  
  11836. 8 ATTORNEY2: Well, then we're assuming fangs
  11837.  
  11838. 9 not in evidence mischaracterize's the witness'
  11839.  
  11840. 10 testimony.
  11841.  
  11842. 11 ATTORNEY3: Is there a question pending.
  11843.  
  11844. 12 MR. POINTER: Yeah.
  11845.  
  11846. 13 ATTORNEY2: Do you have any more conversations
  11847.  
  11848. 14 with certify in a.
  11849.  
  11850. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't believe I did.
  11851.  
  11852. 16 MR. POINTERQ. Okay since this incident --
  11853.  
  11854. 17 sin the hooting of RAUTed during the marriage helium
  11855.  
  11856. 18 brown have you been pressured to give statements in
  11857.  
  11858. 19 this case?
  11859.  
  11860. 20 ATTORNEY2: Well, I'm.
  11861.  
  11862. 21 MR. POINTER: Is there an o.k.
  11863.  
  11864. 22 ATTORNEY2: Well, yeah when you say statements
  11865.  
  11866. 23 outside the con tech of the lawsuit like answering
  11867.  
  11868. 24 discovery taking deposition and.
  11869.  
  11870. 25 MR. POINTER: Have you felt any pressure have
  11871. 212
  11872.  
  11873.  
  11874.  
  11875.  
  11876.  
  11877.  
  11878. 1 you felt any pressure to give statements during do you
  11879.  
  11880. 2 recognize this case then specific instances.
  11881.  
  11882. 3 ATTORNEY2: I don't want to imply this in my
  11883.  
  11884. 4 objection.
  11885.  
  11886. 5 MR. POINTER: But your implying donating it
  11887.  
  11888. 6 any way.
  11889.  
  11890. 7 ATTORNEY2: Anything to do with the
  11891.  
  11892. 8 attorney-client but.
  11893.  
  11894. 9 MR. POINTER: We already know for the 100
  11895.  
  11896. 10 first time that I'm not in any of my questions going to
  11897.  
  11898. 11 attorney-client privilege I cannot get that information
  11899.  
  11900. 12 do you understand that.
  11901.  
  11902. 13 A Yes.
  11903.  
  11904. 14 Q Okay. Have you felt pressured to testify?
  11905.  
  11906. 15 A Yes.
  11907.  
  11908. 16 Q Okay. What pressure have you felt?
  11909.  
  11910. 17 A From OUSD legal department from chief James
  11911.  
  11912. 18 Williams from my former attorneys.
  11913.  
  11914. 19 ATTORNEY2: In which case that's covered by
  11915.  
  11916. 20 the attorney-client privilege.
  11917.  
  11918. 21 MR. POINTER: Sure.
  11919.  
  11920. 22 MR. POINTERQ. What pressure chief Williams?
  11921.  
  11922. 23 A Every time I've had to do something that's
  11923.  
  11924. 24 protected under attorney-client privilege fit innocence
  11925.  
  11926. 25 for duty by chief will jumps.
  11927. 213
  11928.  
  11929.  
  11930.  
  11931.  
  11932.  
  11933.  
  11934. 1 Q What is fitness desult?
  11935.  
  11936. 2 A Use two purposes one to evaluate to send or
  11937.  
  11938. 3 recommend an officer to their department doctor for
  11939.  
  11940. 4 evaluation if they can perform their duties second
  11941.  
  11942. 5 would be to send an officer to their department doctor
  11943.  
  11944. 6 when they are ready to return back to work and released
  11945.  
  11946. 7 from their own treating physician.
  11947.  
  11948. 8 ATTORNEY2: You understood his testify that's
  11949.  
  11950. 9 the question have you been from herred by chief will I
  11951.  
  11952. 10 didn't means to testify.
  11953.  
  11954. 11 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry not from no.
  11955.  
  11956. 12 Q Do you feel as if you being sent -- strike
  11957.  
  11958. 13 that. Do you feel as if this the process for fitness
  11959.  
  11960. 14 for duty that you describe retaliatory pressure again
  11961.  
  11962. 15 you?
  11963.  
  11964. 16 A Yes.
  11965.  
  11966. 17 Q Why what do you mean by that?
  11967.  
  11968. 18 ATTORNEY2: Well, that I'm going to instruct
  11969.  
  11970. 19 him not to answer I think that then becomes the subject
  11971.  
  11972. 20 matter of potential litigation by Mr. Belieu is a which
  11973.  
  11974. 21 he's represented by.
  11975.  
  11976. 22 ATTORNEY3: Sergeant.
  11977.  
  11978. 23 THE WITNESS: Commander technically.
  11979.  
  11980. 24 ATTORNEY2: I do not want him to testify
  11981.  
  11982. 25 ability subject that one I don't think is relevant to
  11983. 214
  11984.  
  11985.  
  11986.  
  11987.  
  11988.  
  11989.  
  11990. 1 this lawsuit that is his retaliation issues when he's
  11991.  
  11992. 2 not protected by his own attorney in that regard
  11993.  
  11994. 3 instruct him not to answer.
  11995.  
  11996. 4 MR. POINTERQ. Retaliation that you feel that
  11997.  
  11998. 5 you have received as it relates the fitness for duty is
  11999.  
  12000. 6 that retaliation for your participation in as it
  12001.  
  12002. 7 relates the shooting of RAUTed during the marriage
  12003.  
  12004. 8 helium brown?
  12005.  
  12006. 9 A I believe it is.
  12007.  
  12008. 10 Q Do you believe that you have been retaliated
  12009.  
  12010. 11 in that manner meaning fitness for duty because you
  12011.  
  12012. 12 providing information that is adverse to the district
  12013.  
  12014. 13 and or any district employee?
  12015.  
  12016. 14 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to object because that
  12017.  
  12018. 15 assumes facts not in evidence go ahead.
  12019.  
  12020. 16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
  12021.  
  12022. 17 MR. POINTERQ. What district employees have
  12023.  
  12024. 18 you provided add versus information about as it relates
  12025.  
  12026. 19 to the incident related to RAUTed during the marriage
  12027.  
  12028. 20 helium brown and or the investigation of the incident
  12029.  
  12030. 21 related to the shooting death of RAUTed during the
  12031.  
  12032. 22 marriage helium brown?
  12033.  
  12034. 23 ATTORNEY4: Objection is.
  12035.  
  12036. 24 ATTORNEY2: Calls for speculation.
  12037.  
  12038. 25 THE WITNESS: Jackie minor and Michael Smith.
  12039. 215
  12040.  
  12041.  
  12042.  
  12043.  
  12044.  
  12045.  
  12046. 1 ATTORNEY4: Can you repeat your answer.
  12047.  
  12048. 2 THE WITNESS: Jackie minor and Michael Smith.
  12049.  
  12050. 3 MR. POINTERQ. And Michael Smith is whom what
  12051.  
  12052. 4 position does he hold in the district?
  12053.  
  12054. 5 A Documents that I see are trial attorney for
  12055.  
  12056. 6 OUSD.
  12057.  
  12058. 7 Q And jack Lin minor what oh, she's the also an
  12059.  
  12060. 8 attorney for the district is that true?
  12061.  
  12062. 9 ATTORNEY3: General counsel.
  12063.  
  12064. 10 THE WITNESS: General counsel.
  12065.  
  12066. 11 MR. POINTERQ. And so you feel that
  12067.  
  12068. 12 retaliation that you have testify today as it relates
  12069.  
  12070. 13 to fitness duty you have adverse information to Michael
  12071.  
  12072. 14 Smith and jack Lin minor?
  12073.  
  12074. 15 A I have not seen any jack Lin minor was just in
  12075.  
  12076. 16 the month of August 2011 it's been Michael Smith ever
  12077.  
  12078. 17 since then to present.
  12079.  
  12080. 18 Q And you feel these two people are retaliating
  12081.  
  12082. 19 against you?
  12083.  
  12084. 20 A Yes.
  12085.  
  12086. 21 Q Starting with jack Lin minor who way he asked
  12087.  
  12088. 22 has she done that you feel is retaliation against you?
  12089.  
  12090. 23 ATTORNEY2: Mr. Belieu is a I'm going to
  12091.  
  12092. 24 instruct you not to answer.
  12093.  
  12094. 25 ATTORNEY3: Command.
  12095. 216
  12096.  
  12097.  
  12098.  
  12099.  
  12100.  
  12101.  
  12102. 1 ATTORNEY4: Let him speak please.
  12103.  
  12104. 2 ATTORNEY2: Instruct you not to answer that
  12105.  
  12106. 3 question please as relates any communications she is
  12107.  
  12108. 4 made to you now if there's conduct that is not the form
  12109.  
  12110. 5 of communication that is where she said something to
  12111.  
  12112. 6 you then you may answer that.
  12113.  
  12114. 7 ATTORNEY4: add an objection that in so far
  12115.  
  12116. 8 as his question entered upon the attorney-client
  12117.  
  12118. 9 witness will be not permit to answer that question.
  12119.  
  12120. 10 You're saying that if she's.
  12121.  
  12122. 11 ATTORNEY2: If she said something to you as
  12123.  
  12124. 12 general counsel I want to instruct you plot to answer
  12125.  
  12126. 13 that if there's something you bereave she's done or
  12127.  
  12128. 14 become aware of that you.
  12129.  
  12130. 15 THE WITNESS: Outside of.
  12131.  
  12132. 16 ATTORNEY2: Yeah that you bereave is retaliate
  12133.  
  12134. 17 foyer.
  12135.  
  12136. 18 THE WITNESS: Well, this wasn't a pro-ticketed
  12137.  
  12138. 19 under attorney-client privilege she went into August 9
  12139.  
  12140. 20 address Tony Smith the whole department staff and
  12141.  
  12142. 21 officers and she not quoting her verbatim but she said
  12143.  
  12144. 22 she did not believe that the incident took place with
  12145.  
  12146. 23 say on the patio in a complaints she said that she was
  12147.  
  12148. 24 hiring an outside firm to investigate us because she
  12149.  
  12150. 25 wanted to be the officer's advocates and her and Tony
  12151. 217
  12152.  
  12153.  
  12154.  
  12155.  
  12156.  
  12157.  
  12158. 1 Smith were soliciting officers to come forward speak
  12159.  
  12160. 2 with them privately want to be their advocates and they
  12161.  
  12162. 3 die volume.
  12163.  
  12164. 4 A Ed information that I spoke to them officers
  12165.  
  12166. 5 indicated there was drinking involve objection no
  12167.  
  12168. 6 foundation July 18th she indicated that she named the
  12169.  
  12170. 7 people that were involved in making a complaint she
  12171.  
  12172. 8 they handed out business cards and ordered people to
  12173.  
  12174. 9 come down meet with them privately I was told by two
  12175.  
  12176. 10 officers that Jackie minor and specifically was
  12177.  
  12178. 11 soliciting complaints against me one girl name officer
  12179.  
  12180. 12 galore yards of soil bell tran Oakland police
  12181.  
  12182. 13 department academy said I cannot tell you by any
  12183.  
  12184. 14 conversation about say on the patio in a what I can
  12185.  
  12186. 15 tell you is that the interview they had with Jackie
  12187.  
  12188. 16 minor was not about say on the patio in a it was all
  12189.  
  12190. 17 about you she said did John has John ever yelled at
  12191.  
  12192. 18 your been mean to you has he ever done anything
  12193.  
  12194. 19 inappropriate to you watch out that they are trying to
  12195.  
  12196. 20 find anythings about you officer holly Matthews then
  12197.  
  12198. 21 later came to me told me that jack Lin minor who's
  12199.  
  12200. 22 avenue 40 can't American stated to her that the use of
  12201.  
  12202. 23 the N word is not that big a deal that people say it
  12203.  
  12204. 24 all the time and holly Matthews told me that her
  12205.  
  12206. 25 interview with jack Lin minor was not what she thought
  12207. 218
  12208.  
  12209.  
  12210.  
  12211.  
  12212.  
  12213.  
  12214. 1 it was she did not think that it was about the
  12215.  
  12216. 2 complaint she referenced or implied she did not get
  12217.  
  12218. 3 into what they said she told me John it was not about
  12219.  
  12220. 4 your complaint I didn't know what chief say on the
  12221.  
  12222. 5 patio in a did until afterwards she implied the
  12223.  
  12224. 6 interview was about me she called Jackie minor in for a
  12225.  
  12226. 7 long time of me and argued with Jackie minor second
  12227.  
  12228. 8 interview with Jackie chief say on the patio in a now
  12229.  
  12230. 9 that she e d light learned of her racial slurs of
  12231.  
  12232. 10 husband irk what's her name Ghana.
  12233.  
  12234. 11 THE WITNESS: Holly H-O-L-L-Y-M-A-T-T-H-E-W-S.
  12235.  
  12236. 12 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Anything else along
  12237.  
  12238. 13 those same lines with Jackie minor?
  12239.  
  12240. 14 A I followed Jackie minor I raced my hand and I
  12241.  
  12242. 15 specifically said what about retaliation superintendent
  12243.  
  12244. 16 answered it I didn't think he did a good job I followed
  12245.  
  12246. 17 Jackie minor and superintendent down to the parking lot
  12247.  
  12248. 18 I was on one side of the fence watching them they were
  12249.  
  12250. 19 approximately 20 feet from me and I over heard Jackie
  12251.  
  12252. 20 minor and the summit say they were not going to let
  12253.  
  12254. 21 John get away with this and they were both talking I
  12255.  
  12256. 22 could not make out exactly what was said I did hear
  12257.  
  12258. 23 that John is not going to get away with this I
  12259.  
  12260. 24 therefore I called Jackie minor on her cell phone right
  12261.  
  12262. 25 as she left I was actually saying Tony Smythe T Smith
  12263. 219
  12264.  
  12265.  
  12266.  
  12267.  
  12268.  
  12269.  
  12270. 1 trying to get their attention this was August this was
  12271.  
  12272. 2 August 9th at around 10 o'clock in the morning video
  12273.  
  12274. 3 surveillance video could show me standing there
  12275.  
  12276. 4 watching them she was 20 feet away I don't know if it
  12277.  
  12278. 5 will record that much but that's what I did.
  12279.  
  12280. 6 Q This is what?
  12281.  
  12282. 7 A Street I called Jackie minor immediately I had
  12283.  
  12284. 8 the impression that there was some sort of speculation
  12285.  
  12286. 9 about me being upset with something I had told her I
  12287.  
  12288. 10 had no personal both of with anyone I'm just doing what
  12289.  
  12290. 11 was receipting what was required of me to do and she
  12291.  
  12292. 12 told me that she would call me later but I told her
  12293.  
  12294. 13 they heard her in the parking lot and I wanted to
  12295.  
  12296. 14 reaffirm her I do not have a grudge against anyone
  12297.  
  12298. 15 there's nothing that I'm trying to spearhead it was
  12299.  
  12300. 16 basically I'm doing the right thing I'm reporting stuff
  12301.  
  12302. 17 and I wanted to report more stuff to her never
  12303.  
  12304. 18 happened.
  12305.  
  12306. 19 Q So do you feel that you're a whistle blower.
  12307.  
  12308. 20 A Yes.
  12309.  
  12310. 21 Q Do you feel whistle blowing?
  12311.  
  12312. 22 A Yes and I want to.
  12313.  
  12314. 23 ATTORNEY2: You answered the question.
  12315.  
  12316. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
  12317.  
  12318. 25 ATTORNEY3: Let the witness finish the answer
  12319. 220
  12320.  
  12321.  
  12322.  
  12323.  
  12324.  
  12325.  
  12326. 1 I tell you million times.
  12327.  
  12328. 2 MR. POINTERQ. Is there additional I've asked
  12329.  
  12330. 3 you?
  12331.  
  12332. 4 A Yes.
  12333.  
  12334. 5 Q What is that?
  12335.  
  12336. 6 A I'm scared I do not want to be retaliated
  12337.  
  12338. 7 against again I am fearful of retaliation this incident
  12339.  
  12340. 8 has caused me so much anxiety just doing the right
  12341.  
  12342. 9 thing.
  12343.  
  12344. 10 Q Has anybody threatened you in any way for your
  12345.  
  12346. 11 whistle blowing activities?
  12347.  
  12348. 12 A Yes.
  12349.  
  12350. 13 Q Who?
  12351.  
  12352. 14 A Former attorneys.
  12353.  
  12354. 15 Q What kind of threats do they make to you?
  12355.  
  12356. 16 A Do not answer that question you're invading
  12357.  
  12358. 17 whatever the discussions may have been.
  12359.  
  12360. 18 Q You understand you hold that right that
  12361.  
  12362. 19 privilege officer you understand that?
  12363.  
  12364. 20 A Yes.
  12365.  
  12366. 21 ATTORNEY3: Commander.
  12367.  
  12368. 22 MR. POINTER: Commander sorry.
  12369.  
  12370. 23 MR. POINTERQ. You understand you hold that
  12371.  
  12372. 24 right commander?
  12373.  
  12374. 25 A Yes.
  12375. 221
  12376.  
  12377.  
  12378.  
  12379.  
  12380.  
  12381.  
  12382. 1 Q Have you told anyone else related to those
  12383.  
  12384. 2 threats?
  12385.  
  12386. 3 A Yes.
  12387.  
  12388. 4 Q Okay. Whom?
  12389.  
  12390. 5 A The FBI and U.S. attorney.
  12391.  
  12392. 6 Q Did you tell anyone else someone that works if
  12393.  
  12394. 7 for FBI U.S. attorney or your attorneys in this matter
  12395.  
  12396. 8 regarding those threats?
  12397.  
  12398. 9 A Yes.
  12399.  
  12400. 10 Q Whom else?
  12401.  
  12402. 11 A Michael I don't like it.
  12403.  
  12404. 12 Q Former OPD officer?
  12405.  
  12406. 13 A Former Oakland police lieutenant.
  12407.  
  12408. 14 Q What it did you tell him that's not protected
  12409.  
  12410. 15 by attorney-client privilege conversation you not your
  12411.  
  12412. 16 attorneys?
  12413.  
  12414. 17 A I just wanted to look for him.
  12415.  
  12416. 18 Q That's fine?
  12417.  
  12418. 19 A I was telling him basically that I needed help
  12419.  
  12420. 20 he helped me in going to the FBI and the U.S. attorney
  12421.  
  12422. 21 and periodically I have told him things that have
  12423.  
  12424. 22 happened regarding the threats and retaliation.
  12425.  
  12426. 23 Q What did you specifically tell him as it
  12427.  
  12428. 24 relates the threats that you received?
  12429.  
  12430. 25 A That I felt intimidated about my defense and
  12431. 222
  12432.  
  12433.  
  12434.  
  12435.  
  12436.  
  12437.  
  12438. 1 my indemnification that I felt that I need today be
  12439.  
  12440. 2 along the same lines as codefendants.
  12441.  
  12442. 3 Q What do you mean by that?
  12443.  
  12444. 4 A In any statements that I would deposition that
  12445.  
  12446. 5 I would apartment in.
  12447.  
  12448. 6 Q When you say you need today codefendants the
  12449.  
  12450. 7 case that we're involved in here is a civil case?
  12451.  
  12452. 8 A Yes.
  12453.  
  12454. 9 Q So what I'm trying to understand what you
  12455.  
  12456. 10 meant when you told him that in terms of you need along
  12457.  
  12458. 11 codefendants?
  12459.  
  12460. 12 A Being on the same lines or saying what
  12461.  
  12462. 13 codefendants are saying happened.
  12463.  
  12464. 14 Q Okay are you saying that you have been
  12465.  
  12466. 15 pressured to give statements that are consist with what
  12467.  
  12468. 16 sergeant bat has said despite you want to go give
  12469.  
  12470. 17 statements that inconsistent with what sergeant bat has
  12471.  
  12472. 18 said?
  12473.  
  12474. 19 ATTORNEY2: Do not say that is protected
  12475.  
  12476. 20 attorney-client privilege.
  12477.  
  12478. 21 MR. POINTER: I have not asked him.
  12479.  
  12480. 22 ATTORNEY2: That's what you asked him.
  12481.  
  12482. 23 MR. POINTER: I dip say anything.
  12483.  
  12484. 24 MR. POINTERQ. Sergeant, I'm not asking you
  12485.  
  12486. 25 what your attorneys told you I'm asking you what you
  12487. 223
  12488.  
  12489.  
  12490.  
  12491.  
  12492.  
  12493.  
  12494. 1 have been pressured or threatened to do all right and
  12495.  
  12496. 2 so my question to you so we're clear have you been
  12497.  
  12498. 3 pressured to give statements that are consist with
  12499.  
  12500. 4 sergeant bat despite have you been pressure isn't with
  12501.  
  12502. 5 sergeant bat?
  12503.  
  12504. 6 ATTORNEY2: Do not answer question relates any
  12505.  
  12506. 7 communication from an attorney that you represented you
  12507.  
  12508. 8 in this in that matter.
  12509.  
  12510. 9 MR. POINTER: Question stands.
  12511.  
  12512. 10 A Okay I don't recall him telling me that.
  12513.  
  12514. 11 Q You don't recall is that you adopt have memory
  12515.  
  12516. 12 whether or not pressured to give statements consist
  12517.  
  12518. 13 with sergeant bat?
  12519.  
  12520. 14 A I have told him that I have felt that if I
  12521.  
  12522. 15 gave statements that went against the district that I
  12523.  
  12524. 16 would be thrown in jail for perjury.
  12525.  
  12526. 17 Q So you have been threatened with jail?
  12527.  
  12528. 18 ATTORNEY4: Objection this question violate it
  12529.  
  12530. 19 is attorney-client privilege.
  12531.  
  12532. 20 MR. POINTER: So your add politicizing
  12533.  
  12534. 21 threatened with jail.
  12535.  
  12536. 22 ATTORNEY4: Same objection.
  12537.  
  12538. 23 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to instruct him not to
  12539.  
  12540. 24 answer that.
  12541.  
  12542. 25 MR. POINTER: It's already been answered.
  12543. 224
  12544.  
  12545.  
  12546.  
  12547.  
  12548.  
  12549.  
  12550. 1 ATTORNEY2: I don't know that it has I
  12551.  
  12552. 2 appreciate what you're saying what's your next
  12553.  
  12554. 3 question.
  12555.  
  12556. 4 MR. POINTERQ. So you're instructing the
  12557.  
  12558. 5 witness?
  12559.  
  12560. 6 ATTORNEY2: I just did.
  12561.  
  12562. 7 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  12563.  
  12564. 8 MR. POINTERQ. So sergeant,?
  12565.  
  12566. 9 ATTORNEY3: Commander we'll get it right.
  12567.  
  12568. 10 A Just tell the district that.
  12569.  
  12570. 11 MR. POINTERQ. Commander have you been
  12571.  
  12572. 12 instructed to give false statements as it relates to
  12573.  
  12574. 13 what happened during the course of this incident
  12575.  
  12576. 14 related to RAUTed during the marriage helium brown
  12577.  
  12578. 15 shooting?
  12579.  
  12580. 16 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to instruct the witness
  12581.  
  12582. 17 to not answer the question in the con tech if that type
  12583.  
  12584. 18 of information was ever communicate today him by an
  12585.  
  12586. 19 attorney I'm not saying that it has or hasn't I just
  12587.  
  12588. 20 don't want to breech the attorney-client privilege
  12589.  
  12590. 21 outside of that Mr. Belieu is a.
  12591.  
  12592. 22 THE WITNESS: No.
  12593.  
  12594. 23 Q I can't even recommend he has he just answered
  12595.  
  12596. 24 it.
  12597.  
  12598. 25 MR. POINTERQ. We're going the withdraw the
  12599. 225
  12600.  
  12601.  
  12602.  
  12603.  
  12604.  
  12605.  
  12606. 1 question and before I ask the next question before the
  12607.  
  12608. 2 15th time that we have inter-seed with this
  12609.  
  12610. 3 attorney-client instructing secularly directing the
  12611.  
  12612. 4 client commander watch commander at that have you been
  12613.  
  12614. 5 threatened with jail as it relates providing testimony
  12615.  
  12616. 6 here that's adverse to the district?
  12617.  
  12618. 7 ATTORNEY4: Objection intrudes attorney-client
  12619.  
  12620. 8 privilege.
  12621.  
  12622. 9 ATTORNEY2: He's making the point exclusive
  12623.  
  12624. 10 any communication have you.
  12625.  
  12626. 11 THE WITNESS: No.
  12627.  
  12628. 12 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Now previously you said
  12629.  
  12630. 13 you have so and we got objections up the with a zoo at
  12631.  
  12632. 14 that point in time so I take that to renales
  12633.  
  12634. 15 essentially coming from your attorneys?
  12635.  
  12636. 16 ATTORNEY2: Don't answers that well, don't
  12637.  
  12638. 17 answer.
  12639.  
  12640. 18 MR. POINTERQ. The record speaks for itself.
  12641.  
  12642. 19 Now, have you been pressured to give -- have you been
  12643.  
  12644. 20 pressure today fab bring indicate and provide false
  12645.  
  12646. 21 statements related to the incident involving the
  12647.  
  12648. 22 shooting death of RAUTed during the marriage helium
  12649.  
  12650. 23 brown?
  12651.  
  12652. 24 A Within the attorney-client privilege.
  12653.  
  12654. 25 ATTORNEY2: All of his questions and he said
  12655. 226
  12656.  
  12657.  
  12658.  
  12659.  
  12660.  
  12661.  
  12662. 1 this several times and I appreciate him doing so all of
  12663.  
  12664. 2 these questions are outside exclusive to any
  12665.  
  12666. 3 communications you may have had with your attorneys
  12667.  
  12668. 4 that's the context right Mr. Pointer I the travelers he
  12669.  
  12670. 5 said that go ahead and answer it with that
  12671.  
  12672. 6 understanding.
  12673.  
  12674. 7 THE WITNESS: Outside of that no.
  12675.  
  12676. 8 MR. POINTERQ. What have you told Mr. Noll as
  12677.  
  12678. 9 it relates to the pressures that you have felt to give
  12679.  
  12680. 10 fab bring indicated testimony relating to the shooting
  12681.  
  12682. 11 death of RAUTed during the marriage helium brown?
  12683.  
  12684. 12 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to object assuming
  12685.  
  12686. 13 statics not in event question is what have you told
  12687.  
  12688. 14 Mr. I don't like it.
  12689.  
  12690. 15 THE WITNESS: What I have told Michael I don't
  12691.  
  12692. 16 like it is that I felt this way I never told him
  12693.  
  12694. 17 specifically what or read him anything or discuss
  12695.  
  12696. 18 verbatim what people have said I have always told him
  12697.  
  12698. 19 this is how I feel this is what has been happen to go
  12699.  
  12700. 20 me I understand that you know if I do talk to someone
  12701.  
  12702. 21 it might put them in a bad situation what I told Mr. I
  12703.  
  12704. 22 don't like it was a lot of the criminal things that
  12705.  
  12706. 23 were going on that I suspected and I had very lengthy
  12707.  
  12708. 24 conversations with him about that I suspected some
  12709.  
  12710. 25 stuff with this I've told him I felt this is what's
  12711. 227
  12712.  
  12713.  
  12714.  
  12715.  
  12716.  
  12717.  
  12718. 1 been happening outside of the attorney-client privilege
  12719.  
  12720. 2 whether it's true or not I felt that he has been he
  12721.  
  12722. 3 worked with getting me to first the DOJ and then it was
  12723.  
  12724. 4 the FBI and I met with them and the U.S. attorney so
  12725.  
  12726. 5 that's basically all he I believe he nose.
  12727.  
  12728. 6 Q So as you sit here today you feel like you
  12729.  
  12730. 7 have been pressured by the district to give false
  12731.  
  12732. 8 statements as it relates the shooting of RAUTed during
  12733.  
  12734. 9 the marriage helium brown?
  12735.  
  12736. 10 ATTORNEY2: Do not an ideal understand the
  12737.  
  12738. 11 question.
  12739.  
  12740. 12 MR. POINTER: Why not.
  12741.  
  12742. 13 ATTORNEY2: Because now you are of now you are
  12743.  
  12744. 14 naturally invading the attorney-client privilege.
  12745.  
  12746. 15 MR. POINTER: I'm sorry go ahead.
  12747.  
  12748. 16 ATTORNEY2: Question invading the
  12749.  
  12750. 17 attorney-client privilege because is no that's all
  12751.  
  12752. 18 that's needed for the o.k.
  12753.  
  12754. 19 MR. POINTERQ. And your still understand?
  12755.  
  12756. 20 A Can you repeat it.
  12757.  
  12758. 21 Q Sure. Have you felt pressure from the
  12759.  
  12760. 22 district to give false testimony related to the
  12761.  
  12762. 23 shooting death of RAUTed during the marriage helium
  12763.  
  12764. 24 brown?
  12765.  
  12766. 25 A No.
  12767. 228
  12768.  
  12769.  
  12770.  
  12771.  
  12772.  
  12773.  
  12774. 1 Q Okay. Have you felt pressure from the
  12775.  
  12776. 2 district to give testimony that is consist with what
  12777.  
  12778. 3 sergeant bat said took place in relation to the
  12779.  
  12780. 4 shooting death of RAUTed during the marriage helium
  12781.  
  12782. 5 brown?
  12783.  
  12784. 6 A Can you please repeat it my ahead is kind.
  12785.  
  12786. 7 Q Mine too?
  12787.  
  12788. 8 ATTORNEY3: You got ten minutes.
  12789.  
  12790. 9 MR. POINTERQ. Have you felt pressured from
  12791.  
  12792. 10 the district to give statements that are consist with
  12793.  
  12794. 11 sergeant bat's version of the incident related to the
  12795.  
  12796. 12 shooting death of RAUTed during the marriage helium
  12797.  
  12798. 13 brown?
  12799.  
  12800. 14 ATTORNEY4: Objection the question was just
  12801.  
  12802. 15 asked and answered.
  12803.  
  12804. 16 THE WITNESS: No.
  12805.  
  12806. 17 MR. POINTERQ. Okay. Now, we talk about jack
  12807.  
  12808. 18 Lin minor what about?
  12809.  
  12810. 19 ATTORNEY3: Smith.
  12811.  
  12812. 20 MR. POINTERQ. Who is Ken Lay Smith?
  12813.  
  12814. 21 ATTORNEY2: I appreciate your inquire I'm not
  12815.  
  12816. 22 what about.
  12817.  
  12818. 23 Q You're correct that's pretty vague you dress
  12819.  
  12820. 24 or bath breath or anything focus and pointed.
  12821.  
  12822. 25 ATTORNEY3: There's no question pending.
  12823. 229
  12824.  
  12825.  
  12826.  
  12827.  
  12828.  
  12829.  
  12830. 1 MR. POINTER: There's to question.
  12831.  
  12832. 2 ATTORNEY2: Okay you were just.
  12833.  
  12834. 3 MR. POINTER: Strike the question withdraw the
  12835.  
  12836. 4 question.
  12837.  
  12838. 5 ATTORNEY2: You were just making your owe d b
  12839.  
  12840. 6 a traffic foyer comment then.
  12841.  
  12842. 7 MR. POINTERQ. Do you have any conversations
  12843.  
  12844. 8 with with Michael Smith related to this case where
  12845.  
  12846. 9 there was someone who was not a party to the case
  12847.  
  12848. 10 present?
  12849.  
  12850. 11 A No.
  12851.  
  12852. 12 Q Do you have any conversations with jack Colin
  12853.  
  12854. 13 minor not a party to this case that was present?
  12855.  
  12856. 14 A No.
  12857.  
  12858. 15 Q What is your OUSD official email?
  12859.  
  12860. 16 A John in a than dot belieu is a at OUSD at K12
  12861.  
  12862. 17 dot CA dot US I believe that's it I don't have it any
  12863.  
  12864. 18 more but.
  12865.  
  12866. 19 Q Did you get that ma'am clerk I didn't get it
  12867.  
  12868. 20 that the same email dress that you were using at about
  12869.  
  12870. 21 the time that you already testified to?
  12871.  
  12872. 22 A Yes.
  12873.  
  12874. 23 Q Have you had any other email with the dick
  12875.  
  12876. 24 since you have employed as a school district employee?
  12877.  
  12878. 25 A No.
  12879. 230
  12880.  
  12881.  
  12882.  
  12883.  
  12884.  
  12885.  
  12886. 1 Q So as you sit here today have you been
  12887.  
  12888. 2 declared fit for duty?
  12889.  
  12890. 3 A I am.
  12891.  
  12892. 4 ATTORNEY2: Just yes or no.
  12893.  
  12894. 5 THE WITNESS: No.
  12895.  
  12896. 6 MR. POINTERQ. And what is the none the
  12897.  
  12898. 7 declaration that you're not fit for duty based upon?
  12899.  
  12900. 8 ATTORNEY2: I'm going to instruct him not to
  12901.  
  12902. 9 answer first of all patient client privilege as far as
  12903.  
  12904. 10 any communications he may have had with a fission and I
  12905.  
  12906. 11 don't believe it's relevant and I think invasive of
  12907.  
  12908. 12 this man's privacy.
  12909.  
  12910. 13 MR. POINTER: Okay you're done.
  12911.  
  12912. 14 ATTORNEY2: I am.
  12913.  
  12914. 15 MR. POINTERQ. So I will reor the it baring
  12915.  
  12916. 16 relates to not being declared to the truth veracity of
  12917.  
  12918. 17 the testimony that you're here to give today meaning if
  12919.  
  12920. 18 you have been not fit duty emotional issue going on
  12921.  
  12922. 19 that may bare upon the here today the sworn testimony
  12923.  
  12924. 20 highly relevant or second progress or if the
  12925.  
  12926. 21 declaration not fitness for duty the condition whatever
  12927.  
  12928. 22 that may be that apparently present today was existent
  12929.  
  12930. 23 at or a time of this incident the shooting death of
  12931.  
  12932. 24 RAUTed during the marriage helium brown even that much
  12933.  
  12934. 25 highly relevant so if your instructing him not to
  12935. 231
  12936.  
  12937.  
  12938.  
  12939.  
  12940.  
  12941.  
  12942. 1 answer that's fine but you unmy position?
  12943.  
  12944. 2 ATTORNEY2: I believe I already instructed him
  12945.  
  12946. 3 not to answer.
  12947.  
  12948. 4 MR. POINTER: Okay.
  12949.  
  12950. 5 MR. POINTERQ. So now, you testified earlier
  12951.  
  12952. 6 that you thought this fitness for duty procedure was
  12953.  
  12954. 7 being use against you as retaliation is that true?
  12955.  
  12956. 8 A Yes.
  12957.  
  12958. 9 Q Do you yourself feel as if you're fit for duty
  12959.  
  12960. 10 is that true do you or do you not?
  12961.  
  12962. 11 ATTORNEY2: May I here the question well, I 30
  12963.  
  12964. 12 that berates him had to just a moment please I believe
  12965.  
  12966. 13 that offer an opinion that requires medical training
  12967.  
  12968. 14 and I think it also berates him to speculate I also
  12969.  
  12970. 15 don't think it's relatively and also invasive to his
  12971.  
  12972. 16 rights to privacy I'm going to instruct him to leave
  12973.  
  12974. 17 not to answer on each of those grounds.
  12975.  
  12976. 18 ATTORNEY3: That's asking for an opinion is
  12977.  
  12978. 19 that the twist we're putting on this.
  12979.  
  12980. 20 MR. POINTER: Let the judge decide that's not
  12981.  
  12982. 21 a problem okay.
  12983.  
  12984. 22 MR. POINTERQ. Are you suffering from any
  12985.  
  12986. 23 type of malady sickness illness that would affect your
  12987.  
  12988. 24 ability to testify the results here today?
  12989.  
  12990. 25 A No.
  12991. 232
  12992.  
  12993.  
  12994.  
  12995.  
  12996.  
  12997.  
  12998. 1 Q Okay?
  12999.  
  13000. 2 MR. POINTER: Off the record.
  13001.  
  13002. 3 (Off the Record.)
  13003.  
  13004. 4 MR. POINTER: Back on the record thank you
  13005.  
  13006. 5 commander I'm done with my questions.
  13007.  
  13008. 6 A Okay.
  13009.  
  13010. 7 Q Mr. Calvin probably has a couple more than
  13011.  
  13012. 8 that I have some type constraints but fair to say that
  13013.  
  13014. 9 you're acceptability towards say on the patio in a
  13015.  
  13016. 10 altered since the if we could of January 2010 is that
  13017.  
  13018. 11 true.
  13019.  
  13020. 12 A I would say my trust in him has diminished.
  13021.  
  13022. 13 Q Now you testified earlier that after the shots
  13023.  
  13024. 14 were fired that you called chief say on the patio in a
  13025.  
  13026. 15 on bat's telephone?
  13027.  
  13028. 16 A Yes.
  13029.  
  13030. 17 Q For some reason you didn't have telephone?
  13031.  
  13032. 18 A That's correct.
  13033.  
  13034. 19 Q Now when you recall van slow telling him
  13035.  
  13036. 20 everything ten police head quarter did you make any
  13037.  
  13038. 21 phone calls do you remember asking that?
  13039.  
  13040. 22 A Yes.
  13041.  
  13042. 23 Q And you said that you asked officer brand to
  13043.  
  13044. 24 call your brother correct?
  13045.  
  13046. 25 A I believe so.
  13047. 233
  13048.  
  13049.  
  13050.  
  13051.  
  13052.  
  13053.  
  13054. 1 Q And you yourself called your wife briefly you
  13055.  
  13056. 2 were okay but you couldn't discuss the accident?
  13057.  
  13058. 3 A Correct.
  13059.  
  13060. 4 Q When you got the head quadricalled you dad
  13061.  
  13062. 5 very bereavely to say your were okay?
  13063.  
  13064. 6 A Correct.
  13065.  
  13066. 7 Q You never mentioned the call to chief say on
  13067.  
  13068. 8 the patio in a?
  13069.  
  13070. 9 A At that time I don't remember it.
  13071.  
  13072. 10 Q You just made it an however before right?
  13073.  
  13074. 11 A I don't leave it was an hour I think it was I
  13075.  
  13076. 12 think it was interviewed at two in the morning I think
  13077.  
  13078. 13 the incident occurred around 930 so a few hours.
  13079.  
  13080. 14 Q All right. But she clearly asked you did you
  13081.  
  13082. 15 make any phone calls you dib just say tell us some of
  13083.  
  13084. 16 the phone calls?
  13085.  
  13086. 17 A Sure.
  13087.  
  13088. 18 Q So you just forgot the mention it?
  13089.  
  13090. 19 A Just didn't come to my mind.
  13091.  
  13092. 20 Q And how long did you talk to the chief on that
  13093.  
  13094. 21 occasion?
  13095.  
  13096. 22 A I can't give 83 an estimate at this time I
  13097.  
  13098. 23 just know what I report today him and that was it.
  13099.  
  13100. 24 Q And at the time you're shaking this phone call
  13101.  
  13102. 25 who else was present at the seen?
  13103. 234
  13104.  
  13105.  
  13106.  
  13107.  
  13108.  
  13109.  
  13110. 1 ATTORNEY2: You mean just in the broad sense
  13111.  
  13112. 2 as pose today might have been in his.
  13113.  
  13114. 3 ATTORNEY3: I don't mean earshot both to sign
  13115.  
  13116. 4 and date were there other police officers there.
  13117.  
  13118. 5 A In the vicinity where I was.
  13119.  
  13120. 6 ATTORNEY2: Just iota there ordinary care sure
  13121.  
  13122. 7 yes.
  13123.  
  13124. 8 ATTORNEY3Q. All right and so did you tell
  13125.  
  13126. 9 chief say on the patio in a in that a gun had been
  13127.  
  13128. 10 found in the car?
  13129.  
  13130. 11 A I don't remember.
  13131.  
  13132. 12 Q But you're sure that you told holly Matthews
  13133.  
  13134. 13 that there was a gun in the car?
  13135.  
  13136. 14 A Yes.
  13137.  
  13138. 15 Q Have you read her report?
  13139.  
  13140. 16 A No.
  13141.  
  13142. 17 Q You never read it?
  13143.  
  13144. 18 A I would like to have marked as first Exhibit
  13145.  
  13146. 19 to this deposition two page report of holly Matthews
  13147.  
  13148. 20 and read it.
  13149.  
  13150. 21 ATTORNEY4: It's five cloak.
  13151.  
  13152. 22 ATTORNEY2: It's okay.
  13153.  
  13154. 23 ATTORNEY3Q. Go ahead and read it and let
  13155.  
  13156. 24 know when you're done.
  13157.  
  13158. 25 A Okay.
  13159. 235
  13160.  
  13161.  
  13162.  
  13163.  
  13164.  
  13165.  
  13166. 1 Q You agree with me she doesn't mention anything
  13167.  
  13168. 2 in her report is there a reason you're hand is im?
  13169.  
  13170. 3 ATTORNEY2: Until you had a chance to complete
  13171.  
  13172. 4 your question.
  13173.  
  13174. 5 Q 82 you would agree with me officer Matthews
  13175.  
  13176. 6 anything about you telling her there was a gun in the
  13177.  
  13178. 7 car?
  13179.  
  13180. 8 A I do not see anywhere in her report.
  13181.  
  13182. 9 Q Well, it says she spoke with you right?
  13183.  
  13184. 10 A No.
  13185.  
  13186. 11 Q Doesn't say she asked you how you were?
  13187.  
  13188. 12 A Did I read that part okay yes she spoke to me.
  13189.  
  13190. 13 Q And she asked you how you were and your said
  13191.  
  13192. 14 okay?
  13193.  
  13194. 15 A Yes.
  13195.  
  13196. 16 Q She told me there was a gun in the car?
  13197.  
  13198. 17 ATTORNEY2: He wants to know whether which
  13199.  
  13200. 18 have been exhibit 1.
  13201.  
  13202. 19 ATTORNEY3: Yes first in order plaintiff's
  13203.  
  13204. 20 first nor.
  13205.  
  13206. 21 THE WITNESS: No.
  13207.  
  13208. 22 Q I feel can we go off the record for a second.?
  13209.  
  13210. 23 ATTORNEY2: Let's say off the record.
  13211.  
  13212. 24 MR. POINTER:
  13213.  
  13214. 25 ATTORNEY3: I'm not done release her she has
  13215. 236
  13216.  
  13217.  
  13218.  
  13219.  
  13220.  
  13221.  
  13222. 1 to go ahead and break.
  13223.  
  13224. 2 ATTORNEY2: Didn't I just say that.
  13225.  
  13226. 3 ATTORNEY2: Break for the evening.
  13227.  
  13228. 4 ATTORNEY3: All right that's fine.
  13229.  
  13230. 5 ATTORNEY2: Okay off the record.
  13231.  
  13232. 6 MR. POINTER: I want one.
  13233.  
  13234. 7 ATTORNEY2: I wasn't one.
  13235.  
  13236. 8 ATTORNEY4: I want one.
  13237.  
  13238. 9 ATTORNEY3: I will wait.
  13239.  
  13240. 10 (Deposition concluded at 5:06 p.m.)
  13241.  
  13242. 11
  13243.  
  13244. 12
  13245.  
  13246. 13
  13247.  
  13248. 14
  13249.  
  13250. 15
  13251.  
  13252. 16
  13253.  
  13254. 17
  13255.  
  13256. 18
  13257.  
  13258. 19
  13259.  
  13260. 20
  13261.  
  13262. 21
  13263.  
  13264. 22
  13265.  
  13266. 23
  13267.  
  13268. 24
  13269.  
  13270. 25
  13271. 237
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