I'm glad that we're seeing a little more eye-to-eye Birkal, but I wanted to point a couple things out in your post.



[QUOTE="Birkal, post: 8094710, member: 66676"]

Levitate was the option that most opened my eyes, and while I think Jordy argues the threat of spikes-stacking too much, there are a lot of convincing switch-ins it provides us, most notably Arghonaut’s main set (even though it runs Knock Off for Iapapa, so I’m not entirely convinced it’s a great switch-in).

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Just because we're immune to Spikes doesn't mean we suddenly become a switch-in to Arghonaut. At best, Arghonaut gets 3 layers of Spikes and CAP26 and Arghonaut and CAP26 are slowly chipping away at each other, and we know Arghonaut has Recover. Unless we get some serious super effective coverage, Arghonaut just gets free Spikes against us and we (likely) lose over time. The benefit of having a Spikes immunity is just helpful in most other situations, but switching CAP26 into Arghonaut, especially if it's an Iapapa Berry set, is not the right play. In the same way, having a Spikes immunity doesn't necessarily improve our matchup with other Spikes users.



[QUOTE="Birkal, post: 8094710, member: 66676"]

To reiterate, Regenerator is an ability that makes a Pokemon so splashable in teambuilder. It’s why adding Torn-T to a team can feel so natural, or even Scarf Crucibelle; you know they will stick around and provide a great core with team support.

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Scarf Crucibelle is an unviable set, which is reflected on the VR. I agree to an extent, but Steel / Ground has some really common weaknesses and just not that many relevant resistances. The weakness to Ground, Fire, and Fighting really hurts in a metagame full of these coverage moves. Now, you might look at Toxapex and think that it's super weak to the common, powerful Psychic-types, but Toxapex comes with a lot of key resistances, specifically Fire- and Water-type. Steel / Ground just doesn't have the same resistances, as indicated by our rather pathetic switch-in list. Regenerator will make CAP26 more splashable for sure, but I'm not sure if it's to the extent you seem to imply.



[QUOTE="Birkal, post: 8094710, member: 66676"]

The more I’ve thought about Quziel’s post there, I’ve come to realize what doesn’t mesh with me personally on it. On paper, Levitate does provide more switch-ins numerically, but I don’t think it will play out that way in matches at all, at least compared to Regeneator, which allows you to switch into Spikes, Voltturn, and pretty much any resisted STAB (all Clefable sets, Crucibelle), and leave later with a net gain. Levitate never produces a numerical gain, so while you’re getting momentum for predicting good switch-ins, you’re not gaining anything over a 40 turn match; your opponent will eventually predict you and lure in for a cripple or KO. Regenerator, meanwhile, gives utility against countless teambuilds in a way that OU viable mons are known for in cores. I think Regenerator gives a lot more breadth than Quziel implies, certainly more the depth Levitate provides.

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I'm not so sure about this, and it might just be how you've used "numerical" in different contexts. Yes, Regenerator allows you to heal off Spikes damage, but Levitate makes it so you just can't take damage from them. Even if you can get a net heal with Regenerator, Levitate still allows for a good amount of breathing room.



Furthermore, Levitate does provide more switch-in numerically, and that's important. With Levitate, you actually beat out Garchomp unless it runs a Fire-type move, which are generally special (Fire Blast and Flamethrower rather than Fire Fang), and if it runs the Fire-type attack it's not running Swords Dance or Stealth Rock. Also, assuming 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpD bulk...



252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock



252 SpA Diancie-Mega Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 230-272 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 90-107 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 58.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock



0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 146-172 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- 25.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock



+1 224+ SpA Magearna Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 224+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 257-303 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(this burns Magearna's Z-move also)



252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 356-420 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 309-364 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (this is notably at +2)



252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 338-398 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Excadrill Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (also at +2)



252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 214-254 (52.9 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (this is if Mega Tyranitar is carrying Fire Punch though, as it wants Earthquake for Magearna and Toxapex, and it never carries both)



252 Atk Pajantom Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 222-262 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock



There are other Ground-type moves from Pokemon like Mega Latios, Jumbao, some Tornadus-T, and others, but Levitate allows CAP26 to take resisted hits rather than have to try to stomach the super effective Ground-type attacks. It gives CAP26 a lot more room to breathe and function, actually throwing out Doom Desires rather than switching in and out trying to recover damage. Even if CAP26 does take the resisted damage from these Pokemon, it has actual Pokemon to switch into. Remember that CAP26 just doesn't have a lot of safe opportunities to even stay in, again, as shown by our really short list of switch-ins. Regenerator would be perfect for CAP26 had the typing to truly leverage its defensive typings, but unfortunately Steel / Ground just doesn't do that. Levitate provides the correct defensive utility that CAP26 will need to properly throw off Doom Desires - if it can't stay in on anything, it can't use Doom Desire, even if it heals off damage doing so.