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  1. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg494939#msg494939 date=1421914473]I believe ‘Smile’ wasn’t completed because of objections to it by both Mike Love and the record company, which refused to release it, even if it was completed. I agree with that decision. The music, and the lyrics written by VDP were great, but Brian’s contributions were ludicrous. I mean, “…I gotta eat my vege-tables.” Indeed…[/quote]
  2.  
  3. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495238#msg495238 date=1422005275]
  4. Dancing Bear: VDP would tell you this: He agreed with me about how ludicrous Brian’s lyrics were, but his collaborations were seen by him as furthering his career – and VDP isn’t shy about saying so. He recently wrote an article for TheDailyBeast.com describing Brian as being a ‘bully’ when he worked with him. Some of you may not know it, but VDP is an international star. He is welcome in Japan and all over Europe to give concerts, and his records sell well everywhere but here. He, too, is a musical genius, but not an idiot. If he put his mind to it, he’d be a major poet. Why SS members hate him, I can’t understand…
  5.  
  6. LostArt: I never discussed the direction of VDP’s collaboration with Brian at the time. Everyone thought that VDP’s lyrics were too sophisticated to work with ‘Smile.’ I don’t know who told me that Capitol refused to release it. But it was very clear at the time that they did. This was at the end of my journey with Brian, so I wasn’t deeply in enough to know the details. Am I wrong in thinking that VDP and Brian collaborated on ‘Surf’s Up’ and ‘Sail On Sailor’? I loved those cuts. If so, those collaborations worked while ‘Smile’ didn’t. I’m sorry if SS members aren’t happy that I don’t like ‘Smile.’ I’m determined to be honest here, for good or ill. I owe that to both you and myself. I try not to bullshit anyone.
  7.  
  8. Modern Cargo: My impression was that Capitol was ready for a blockbuster, but when they heard the finished product, they wrote off the PR and bailed out. Again, I don’t blame them. This used to happen a lot when groups were like demigods and had great influence with the record companies. They learned quickly to rein them in.
  9.  
  10. As I said, Mikie, I’m confused about the dates. Knowing the date Brian fired Murry might help. Did I start being Tour Manger after he was fired, or in between somewhere? I only did one tour with the BB’s. Stayed in New York, toured New England. Hanging with Mike Love once was enough for me. Greener pastures lay beyond. No particular memories. Just another bunch of concerts like the hundreds that were ahead of me for eight more years.
  11.  
  12. My pal Buddhahat: I wasn’t around when VDP and Brian worked together. I was around when he worked with Tony Asher, however. Yes, of course I remember the sandbox. Also the blue gym mats lining the entire living room floor in the Laurel Way house. The famous tent had no opening in the top. The smoke was unbearable. I told Brian to open it up, but he said having it closed was the point. The pro jukebox was some Beatles, but mostly Phil Spector. We went to his house together one evening. He met us at the door wearing large foam ears and feet, but we never mentioned them. The conversation was awkward. Two more different people you could not imagine. See my previous comments about ‘Surf’s Up’ and ‘Heroes and Villains’. I loved those songs…
  13.  
  14. AGD: I knew Fred Vail from my agency work with GAC and Ashley-Famous. I founded their rock divisions in 1963 and 1966, respectively and booked many a group with the concerts he promoted. Ask him if he remembers the Four Seasons West coast tour in 1963. He made a fortune. I booked it. I never knew David Marks.
  15.  
  16. Les P: I wasn’t aware of Brian destroying tapes. My impression during that visit to Bellagio, was that Brian was frantic and falling apart. All those negative forces were falling in on him. I didn’t get the music I heard. He played several different versions but I couldn’t sort them out. He was clearly on drugs, and it was the last time I was interested in seeing him. There was nothing I could do to help him…
  17.  
  18. Add Some: Good question. Yes, Brian was apprehensive, and he was right to feel that way. He knew how difficult it was going to be with ML. Carl and Al, and Dennis for the vocals, not the drums, of course, weren’t going to be a problem. But anything that wasn’t going to drag in more groupies (many ultimately wives) for ML wasn’t going to sit well with him. If I remember correctly, his first question was, “How are we going to perform this?, and he was right to feel that way, too. A big change that changed everything.
  19.  
  20. MrRobinsonsFather: I’m not sure what you mean. I left the relationship just before he moved from Laurel Way. I saw him the last time much later for one day at the Bellagio house. I had been living in Japan for a year in between. We met again around 1998 (I said a ‘few years,’ not a couple) in San Francisco for a day. You’ll have to help me to fill in the blanks you are perceiving…
  21.  
  22. Custom Machine: Every day with Brian was thrilling. A true musical genius and the sweetest person one could ever know. His greatest charm was his self-effacement. Tony Asher was my best friend for nine years and I loved him. Van Dyke is a true poet and a genius in his own right. In a town full of uneducated charlatans in a business dominated by the Mafia, Van Dyke and I were almost alone on a desert island. He spoke in poetry, and I am proud to say that I was one of the few around him who understood virtually everything he said. It is why we became friends. Both highly educated, we understood each other’s language. I was eager to introduce him to Brian, and it made his fortune.
  23.  
  24. Wild-Honey: I’m not sure I understand what you mean about being first to like a band. Can you elaborate? It sounds like a question I would like to answer.  As to the second: “Anyway,  Lorren,  maybe  Marilyn was just scared to death of drugs, rather than trying to hold him back? Maybe she also didn't fit in with the crowd and felt intimidated?” Yes, all of that is true, and I don’t fault her for that. What I object to is that she was his wife, his life’s companion.
  25. [/quote]
  26.  
  27. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495245#msg495245 date=1422008751]
  28. To Buddhahat:   I'm surprised at you. It was Brian and myself that showed up at Phil Spector's door. Spector was wearing the foam ears and feet. Thanks again for your support, and the check is in the mail...  LD
  29. [/quote]
  30.  
  31. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495372#msg495372 date=1422052266]Smiler 21 and Custom Machine: So much to think about with this. At my ‘salon’, it was only marijuana – coke didn’t show up until the early eighties and ruined the whole scene. No alcohol. Normal snacks. No discussion themes, but everyone talking with each other in their own conversations. Yes, Asher, VDP, Brian, David Crosby, Roger McGuinn, Steve Stills, various film actors/actresses, ad agency creatives, Jack Nicholson once, Peter Fonda (with Crosby) twice. Dennis Hopper once. So many I can’t remember it all…  With Brian, the most influential subject was metaphysics. I began with easy books: Gibran, Krishnamurti, Gina Cerminara’s bio of Edgar Cayce, Alan Watts on Zen. Then came a lot of talk about those ideas and going deeper along the way. Brian lapped it up like ambrosia. I helped him apply those ideas of universal love, logic and justice to his frustrations and a lot of it worked for him. He began to see things in a larger way. It calmed him down and created a base for thinking in a philosophical way. I saw the results in his songs later on. Note: A fellow named Larry Geller, whom I knew and liked, did the same thing for Elvis Presley. [/quote]
  32. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495377#msg495377 date=1422052920]
  33. Barsone:  Yes, I've been waiting for this question: I loved Al Jardine. He was the sweetest of them all. I could talk straight to him and get straight answers. He was always on the outside of the group, but made superb contributions to their music. Carl and Dennis, after all, were not terribly bright. ML easily ruled them. My impression is that Al went along, but had barriers that ML wouldn’t cross. He had integrity and a clear sense of himself and his talent. I spent more time with him than any of the band, excluding, of course, Brian.[/quote]
  34. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495453#msg495453 date=1422088359]Don Malcolm: Oddly enough, David Leaf recorded the interview with me for almost two hours, of which he used about ten minutes. Much of what I’ve written here was said before on during those two hours. David sent me a copy.
  35.  
  36. Add Some: I am quite sure that Brian never intended ‘Pet Sounds’ to be a solo project. His ideas for the vocals were there from the beginning. He wasn’t ready to walk away from the Boys. Also, I don’t think he cared about presenting the album onstage. This was a studio album with the Wrecking Crew and was meant to be just that. That’s why ML hated it. He thought the golden eggs from his golden goose were gone forever…
  37.  
  38. Avon Todd: ‘Pet Sounds’ was certainly something special for Brian. It was his big departure from the old ways. The Wrecking Crew was absolutely in awe of Brian, and many said it was one of the high moments of their careers. I can’t say for sure, but I believe that the Boys weren’t fully aware of what he was doing. ML, or any of the others were not at the sessions, at least I never saw them there, and I was there for almost all of them. (Vosse was there, too. You can ask him about this). I believe he told them that they would put vocals on the tracks when he was done. Murry was there for one or two and tried to bully Brian as best he could. Brian eventually asked him to leave the studio and not come back.  
  39.  
  40. One remarkable moment was when Brian went into the studio to consult with one of those incredible musicians and I was in the booth with Murry and some Capitol executives. Here’s what I heard him say: “Brian isn’t the real talent in the family, I am. I write much better songs than he does. He can’t hear stereo. He’s deaf in one ear, you know. I taught him everything he knows. If it wasn’t for me, he’d be nothing.” Murry, as Brian told me, had hit him in the side of his head with a 2X4 when he was a boy. That’s what caused his deafness.
  41. [/quote]
  42.  
  43. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg495565#msg495565 date=1422143054]
  44. Les P: For me, the metaphysical influences began with ‘Pet Sounds’ It was a different style of songwriting. The rocknroll was virtually gone and much deeper issues were being dealt with. This continued with the ever more obscure and non-commercial content of the songs he wrote with VDP. I’m reminded of the career of Herman Melville: He began by writing pure adventure stories that became, little by little, spiritual ones. ‘Moby Dick’ was the perfect blending of the two. The books after that were more and more spiritual, and sales fell off until he wasn’t read at all. Something like this has happened to Brian.
  45.  
  46. Add Some: Good question: Almost everyone around him, except ML, were in utter awe of Brian. They knew what he was – some kind of musical genius – but appearing in the form of a (don’t go crazy now) simple-minded teenager – kind of like Mozart (another idiot-savant with a stern father).  Brian was never comfortable on television or with celebrities, not even in my living room. Brian’s gifts, which are stunning to us, was just his normal state of being – nothing special, just what he does. Never once did I see evidence of a ‘big head’ on Brian’s shoulders, in fact, he was completely self-effacing.
  47.  
  48. Buddhahat: “I have been driving around today with a mental picture of your and Brian's encounter with a foam-eared Phil Spector. Can you remember any other details of that night? What had brought you there - was he a friend of yours, perhaps? Was it just you and Brian or were there others there? We know Brian was in awe of Spector. Did he ask Phil about his work or was he pretty tongue-tied around him? Spector was obviously a huge influence on Brian. Do you remember any resentment from Spector towards Brian, or a sense that he was threatened by this young pretender?!”
  49.  
  50. I didn’t arrange the meeting. Brian had talked to him on the phone and he invited him over. It was just Brian and myself. I think he wanted moral support. Brian was tongue-tied. No real conversation. Spector didn’t know what to make of him. No resentment, no threats. It was Phil Spector, for crissakes. He wasn’t threatened by anything.[/quote]
  51. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg496455#msg496455 date=1422341210]Buddhahat: Brian was intimidated by The Beatles from their first records. At first, they were just rockers, but what knocked him off his feet was ‘Revolver’ -- whole new change in tone and artistry. From that album on, he felt competitive, and I think the roots of ‘Pet Sounds’ were planted by it. With the production values of Spector, combined with the depth of ‘Revolver’, ‘Pet Sounds’ was his answer to The Beatles. His listened to them constantly, but none hit him deeper than ‘Revolver’. He knew that even with his own great talent (and he was aware of it), he would never reach the heights they had flown to.
  52.  
  53. Tricycle Rider: As far as I could tell, Capitol was always supportive. They often appeared at the ‘Pet Sounds’ sessions, but said nothing. He was the Golden Goose, so why hassle him? I never heard of any issues of Brian touching the board. I was in the booth with him for many hours and he often moved the controls on the board. The engineer never seemed to mind. Fairy dust, I think.
  54.  
  55. Les P: I don’t remember Derek Taylor being that close to ‘the scene’. Van Dyke, Vosse and Anderle were. I don’t know if Brian cut ties with those I named, I doubt it. He never cut ties with me. After visiting him at the Bellagio house, as I previously wrote, he was on edge, a little frantic and unhappy. I felt it was time to go. I had done all I could by then. As for Diane, I’m sure Brian did all he could to keep her around. I know this: She was not in love with Brian and would never be. They were two very different people. She was regal, intelligent and gorgeous, and my impression was, like any Jewish girl of that kind, she wanted to marry someone sane and professional who could provide her and their family with a stable, affluent environment. Brian certainly was affluent, but stable he was not. As for Brian’s ‘self doubt’, I never perceived that in him. Like any true artist, he believed in his visions.
  56.  
  57. AGD: Correction: I had met Michael Vosse at Brian’s house a number of times before the ‘Pet Sounds’ sessions. We became good friends. I hung out with him for a time when David Leaf was interviewing both of us for the ‘Beautiful Dreamer’ documentary in San Francisco. He didn’t look well to me – haggard, weak and covered with extreme dandruff. Michael was at almost as many of the ‘Pet Sounds’ instrumental sessions as I was. We talked a lot during that time. He told me that he was there writing a story for ‘Rolling Stone’. I don’t know if it was true, but he said it was. Michael always seemed trustworthy to me. I liked him a lot. I don’t know anything about Vosse and Siegel leaving Brian, or being thrown out, for that matter. As for troubles with the 'family band,' I wouldn’t doubt that for a minute, what with ML and all.
  58.  
  59. Tricycle Rider: Yes, I am proud to say that I turned Brian on to ‘How To Speak Hip’. Del Close and Jon Brent were acquaintances of mine – we had mutual friends. I also introduced him to Lenny Bruce, Lord Buckley, Mort Sahl and Brother Dave Gardner. He didn’t get much of what they were saying, but remember that Brian didn’t know who Clark Gable, Gary Cooper and Cary Grant were. Talk about isolated…[/quote]
  60.  
  61. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg496580#msg496580 date=1422393654]
  62. I didn’t imagine that Vosse was at the ‘Pet Sounds’ instrumental sessions. I don’t know or care why he states differently. He may have had his own reasons for doing that.
  63.  
  64. Doinnothin: Del Close, and Jon Brent, for that matter, never met Brian that I know of.
  65.  
  66. Puni puni: I introduced the ‘How To Speak Hip’ album to Tony Asher. We played it many times together in my living room. He passed it on to Brian, as I did. I know I was the first to play it for him.[/quote]
  67. [quote author=Lorren Daro link=topic=19579.msg496899#msg496899 date=1422506054]MrRobinsonsFather: Yes, Brian mentioned that he had met Paul McCartney. I don’t think they were on similar wavelengths. Brian didn’t say much about it that I can remember, nor did he seem impressed. The Beatles, I think, were a mystery to him.
  68.  
  69. Puni Puni: I wasn’t aware of either the death of Terry Sachen or David Anderle. I’ve already written about my love for Michael Vosse. You’ll think this is cruel, but I’m glad to see Sachen in his grave. Maybe now he’ll be able to face the damage he has done.
  70.  
  71. As for Anderle: I went to grammar school with him – Carthay Circle in West LA (the Oscars and all the big premiers used to be held there). I loved and admired him greatly, and he and our young sons used to go to movies together often. We saw the first ‘Star Wars’ pic together. Head of A&R at A&M records for decades, and the inventor of the rocknroll soundtrack, beginning, I believe with ‘Car Wash’. I loved him. He painted the most moving and accurate portrait of Brian anyone has ever done – it’s spiritual and moving.
  72.  
  73. Add Some:
  74.  
  75. “In a nutshell then...you provided Brian with a few drugs of the era (LD: only two)...known to perhaps enable creative people to take their 'craft' a little further.   Maybe see that which beforehand you had previously overlooked. You did so somewhat unwillingly, but provided clean, safe...or at least safer/clean...pot and 'acid' so that Brian could experience the best there was available at the time. Otherwise he would have, and subsequently did, go for more street level renditions and that ultimately overtook him.  Fairly accurate?”
  76.  
  77. Yes, accurate. But it wasn’t just ‘clean drugs’, it was a clean and safe environment. The pot: yes, I held Brian off it for a full year. Others smoked it around him, but I never saw a joint offered to him in my living room after I asked that that not be done. The LSD: The best at the time. Owsley 125mcg, transparent blue liquid in a small vial. The important thing was that I knew how to be a ‘psychedelic guide’. I didn’t take the drug. I watched over him and created a calm space for him to experience it in. I was there to answer questions, if he had any, and to keep him from going off on any tangents. The ‘pillow’ incident at the beginning only lasted about an hour. From then on, he had control (as much as one can have) of the process.
  78.  
  79. “Is that safe to say?  That Brian was, seemingly, misdiagnosed in terms of his illness and was prescribed incorrectly with drugs which didn't help but perhaps hindered him instead.”
  80.  
  81. Yes…
  82.  
  83. Brian: My dates have been notoriously wrong, but I can make a good guess that Brian was okay for at least three years after taking LSD (only once with me) and staying on marijuana (not from me). The problems started with, a) Terry Sachen giving every drug he could find to Brian. b) At first, pretending to be mentally ill to keep off the road, and then, with food, more drugs, isolation in his bedroom, Marilyn unable to understand him, and agoraphobia. c) And, finally the introduction of Eugene Landy into his life when his supposed mental illness began. A, B, C. Three strikes and you’re out. I sincerely believe that Brian was never truly seriously mentally ill. He may have been borderline schizophrenic, but, as someone carefully explained on this site, he never appeared to have crossed over into full-blown disease. Landy’s drugs, a crew of keepers, Marilyn’s hysterics, and other elements I can’t speak to, put him in a child-like state of dependence that knocked him off balance that was sustained for years.
  84.  
  85. Watch a Cave: That was a great post! Yes, I agree, I believe Brian would have continued to be a successful artist if he had not taken any drugs at all. Although, I must mention that many great writers and artists have used opium, ether, hash, coffee, tobacco and alcohol to try to enhance their creativity. It’s pretty much an artistic given.
  86. [/quote]
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