Envoy Dreamweaving chat

(Envoys): You say, "Okay. My biggest pertinent question has a little bit of lead in. All of the
skills that made dreamweaving tenuously viable have been removed or otherwise gutted by the overhaul.
Attrition was removed, and the replacement for the attrition has now been removed. The more powerful
motes have been replaced with common afflictions and so on."

(Envoys): You say, "Was the skillset intended to force 1v1s and to only work in the context of a
Nirvana 1v1? In other words - should the report be focused around making the Nirvana experience more
competitive or in bringing back strength/utility (which will probably necessitate de-emphasizing
dreamjacking)"

(Envoys): Estarra says, "The former."

(Envoys): You say, "Okay, so it's not meant to really be useful outside of Nirvana? Without
significant upgrades, all of the things that made dreamweavers useful (sleeplocks) don't work there.
"

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Well the intent was to move away from attrition b/c there's so much
negative feedback about attrition. Dreamjacking to nirvana is really a unique tactic (so those who
like that tactic would want the skillset). However, it's not necessarily "useless" outside of
nirvana, there's enough to keep you competitive in a group situation. And admittedly this means that
it's not the best skill for arena battles."

(Envoys): You say, "I agree with the first part of that."

(Envoys): You say, "Outside of nirvana, the use of dreamweaving is memoryloss, which everyone agrees
is an absurdly long blackout that needs nerfing."
8300h, 9300m, 7800e, 10p Bexk-

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Ok."

(Envoys): You say, "All of the other effects and afflictions can be found in poisons, curse scrolls,
or basic enchants."

(Envoys): You say, "The problem I'm having is twofold."

(Envoys): You say, "First, it's way too easy to dreamjack someone, regardless of how easy it is to
actually fight them in Nirvana. This leads to using dreamjack as a powerless, basically unavoidable
maze or fleshstone skill. Making dreamjack too restricted on the other hand, guts a skill that only
functions in Nirvana, so that's a really tight line."

(Envoys): You say, "That's theoretically fixable."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Well i disagree that it "only" functions in nirvana but I am following you."

(Envoys): You say, "The backbone of dreamweaving as in the sleeplocks. In a combat context (so, not
talking about the utility of going out of phase to steal items etc.), the active abilities of a
dreamweaver are to channel (drain ego), flick motes (stupidity, amnesia, undoing, mindsoothe, or
epilepsy), and to use a command through induce."

(Envoys): You say, "The removal of the sleep attrition still preserved sleeplocking via a triple
sleep/void combo to put an enemy down long enough. There just isn't enough active sleeping for that
to be possible anymore."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "What if we just add deepsleep and void back?"

(Envoys): You say, "That would help some, on that front. It would still be in a hurting place, but
might not be as toothless."

(Envoys): You say, "Second, Nirvana is in no way set up to facilitate 1v1s in a fair way. Basically,
the dreamweaver will need to set up a demesne on the spot with their target trapped in tower. This
is because of the massive area and randomization of dreamjacking means that you can't practically
prep a demesne, or expect your target to ever enter your demesne. For most classes, there will
either be no incentive to fight the dreamweaver in their demesne - leading back to problem one with
cheap maze. For others, it will be too easy to find and stomp the melder before they can prepare
their demesne adequatly. If dreamjacking is changed to putting the victim into a more melder-
controlled arena, the utter ease of dreamjacking becomes insane and it might be a death sentence. On
the other hand, it's too hard to realistically engage a target any other way."

(Envoys): You say, "Or to put it another way - trapped in a tower with the other class."

(Envoys): You say, "If you're lucky, that other class is a guardian or wiccan, who cannot fight in
Nirvana at all."

(Envoys): You say, "But then they'll just run away constantly."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "That seems easy enough. A flow type skill in nirvana or a summoning skill
(puts target in random area of your demesne (must have demesne) -- that seems like an easy solution.
"

(Envoys): You say, "That brings the second part of the issue. Then it's an unstoppable "get put into
a prepped demesne with zero recourse" dreamjacking effect."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Limit summoning as a power skill, still can resist it. you still have to
deal with a dreamweaver in nirvana."

(Envoys): You say, "In my opinion, the best way to solve both of these problems is to de-emphasize
the nirvana-as-a-forced-1v1 aspect and use nirvana as an interesting fueling/upkeep effect. Make
Dreamjacking less easy to do, but such that it's still possible to catch someone who isn't paying
attention or who is being otherwise occupied in it. Do the 'forces you into an arena with the meld'
change, whatever that might be. Buff (and add some) nirvana 'summons' effects like beast and blade.
Make all of the summons summonable in weaker forms in the corporeal body."

(Envoys): You say, "Do qol changes like making motes free to weave in nirvana."

(Envoys): You say, "And add more utility to Nirvana."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "I like the forced 1v1. people always tell me lusternia is always group
combat. This would be a unique way to increase 1v1 battles not to mention the tactic of
strategically taking people out of group combats."

(Envoys): You say, "Heh. The problem is that only druids are really capable of a 1v1 duel with
another class, and certainly not without any of the sleeping attacks dreamweaving used to have."

(Envoys): You say, "And not under the conditions in Nirvana."

(Envoys): You say, "As a side note, it was mentioned that some skills are supposed to be stronger in
Nirvana, but I can only find skills that don't work at all in Nirvana."

(Envoys): You say, "Do you know what the empowered skills are supposed to be?"

(Envoys): Estarra says, "What do you mean empowered?"

(Envoys): You say, "The AB for dreamrealm says: " As you progress in Dreamweaving, you will discover
some abilities that are stronger when in the dreamrealm...""

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Oh thinks like burst is stronger."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Things."

(Envoys): You say, "Oh."

(Envoys): You say, "Burst isn't very useful, heh. Okay! I couldn't figure out what was different,
that'd be why."

(Envoys): You say, "Alright. I have a bunch of general changes to the existing skills that should
happen and so on, not really sure how to solve both of those mentioned essential problems without
creating worse ones."

(Envoys): You say, "Oh, the regen penalties."

(Envoys): You say, "Is anyone married to those?"

(Envoys): Estarra says, "I'm open to anything really, but again, I would prefer if 1v1 nirvana
dreamjack reamins as a viable tactic in some manner."

(Envoys): You say, "Yeah. I think it should be preserved, I just think that it being the central
required mechanic is a bad direction."

(Envoys): You say, "Dreamweavers should be able to participate in regular combat to a similar extent
as other choices or they aren't going to pick dreamweaving. The current mechanics don't bring enough
to the table (I don't think) for that to be the case right now, or even with Nirvana fixes."

(Envoys): Estarra says, "Well i look forward to your report!"