Sibel Edmonds Gladio B Part 1 Subtitles [EN] Raw WebVTT

WEBVTT

00:00:00.530 --> 00:00:11.780
♪ (Intro Music) ♪

00:00:11.780 --> 00:00:14.259
Welcome. This is
James Corbett of CorbettReport.com.

00:00:14.259 --> 00:00:17.338
It is the 30th of January, 2013
here in Japan;

00:00:17.338 --> 00:00:20.308
and today I'm joined on the line
from the United States

00:00:20.308 --> 00:00:24.149
by BoilingFrogsPost.com founder
and editor Sibel Edmonds,

00:00:24.149 --> 00:00:27.642
our good friend who has been
on this podcast many times before.

00:00:27.642 --> 00:00:30.409
So Sibel, thank you so much
for taking the time today.

00:00:31.666 --> 00:00:32.371
Sure.

00:00:32.371 --> 00:00:34.926
This is gonna be a very,
very interesting interview.

00:00:34.926 --> 00:00:37.143
I've been looking forward to this...

00:00:37.143 --> 00:00:38.340
to this interview.

00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:41.409
Me, too. But it is a bit overwhelming.
It's almost intimidating,

00:00:41.409 --> 00:00:44.544
because the topic we're talking about
is so large, so vast,

00:00:44.544 --> 00:00:46.696
involves so many characters that

00:00:46.696 --> 00:00:49.683
a lot of the audience probably
won't be familiar with,

00:00:49.683 --> 00:00:52.629
that it's a bit daunting to know
where to even begin with this.

00:00:52.629 --> 00:00:54.243
So I guess we should explain

00:00:54.243 --> 00:00:57.421
that we're picking up from a conversation
that I had with Tom Secker

00:00:57.421 --> 00:00:59.810
a week or two ago on <i>The Corbett Report</i>

00:00:59.810 --> 00:01:02.940
talking about Gladio and the
history of Operation Gladio,

00:01:02.940 --> 00:01:04.970
the NATO stay-behind operation.

00:01:05.090 --> 00:01:10.107
So people who want more on the details
of Gladio itself and its history

00:01:10.107 --> 00:01:13.831
as a historical entity in Europe might
want to check out <i>that</i> conversation.

00:01:13.831 --> 00:01:16.486
But today we're going to be picking
up from that to talk about

00:01:16.486 --> 00:01:18.871
specifically how Gladio unfolded,

00:01:19.031 --> 00:01:20.606
and morphed into

00:01:20.606 --> 00:01:22.991
what it currently is in Turkey.

00:01:22.991 --> 00:01:24.446
And how it's operating...

00:01:24.796 --> 00:01:28.228
-- well, how it's basically morphed
into a different type of operation,

00:01:28.228 --> 00:01:31.854
but is using a lot of the same strategies
and methods to continue...

00:01:32.014 --> 00:01:33.887
-- well, moving into different areas

00:01:33.887 --> 00:01:37.381
such as false-flag terrorism
in the Islamic terrorism context,

00:01:37.391 --> 00:01:38.439
and also drug-running.

00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:40.876
It's, again, a huge subject to tackle.

00:01:40.876 --> 00:01:42.514
So perhaps we should start

00:01:42.514 --> 00:01:43.832
by talking about the way

00:01:43.832 --> 00:01:46.498
that the NATO stay-behind
Gladio operation

00:01:46.668 --> 00:01:48.204
was transported to Turkey,

00:01:48.204 --> 00:01:52.400
and they way that it originally
started there, as a ultranationalist --

00:01:52.493 --> 00:01:55.316
or, a way to puppeteer the
ultranationalists

00:01:55.316 --> 00:01:57.440
in their terrorist movement.

00:01:59.570 --> 00:02:03.335
Sure. One slight correction,

00:02:03.335 --> 00:02:04.348
and that is:

00:02:04.348 --> 00:02:07.191
the field of operation for Gladio,

00:02:07.191 --> 00:02:09.108
well, is pretty much global,

00:02:09.108 --> 00:02:10.915
with a large concentration...

00:02:10.915 --> 00:02:16.784
-- main concentration in the last,
I would say, 15, 16 years --

00:02:16.784 --> 00:02:21.304
Central Asia, Caucasus,
and the Balkans.

00:02:21.304 --> 00:02:22.877
And it started with the Balkans.

00:02:22.877 --> 00:02:26.255
So the field of operation actually
has nothing to do with Turkey itself.

00:02:26.255 --> 00:02:31.283
There is really nothing;
because Turkey is where the powers

00:02:31.283 --> 00:02:34.555
-- that being NATO, US,
United Kingdom --

00:02:34.555 --> 00:02:38.190
where they want
-- these countries want -- to be.

00:02:38.190 --> 00:02:40.484
That's for Turkey.

00:02:40.484 --> 00:02:42.839
So the fields of operation

00:02:42.839 --> 00:02:44.424
are basically Central Asia...

00:02:44.424 --> 00:02:47.019
-- the former Soviet bloc
space, basically.

00:02:47.019 --> 00:02:51.536
And the operations control centers...

00:02:51.536 --> 00:02:54.327
of course, the main one,

00:02:54.327 --> 00:02:57.298
the top layer being in the United States,

00:02:57.298 --> 00:02:59.330
with major arteries connecting it

00:02:59.330 --> 00:03:01.592
to United Kingdom; to Britain.

00:03:01.592 --> 00:03:03.462
And you have Belgium;

00:03:03.462 --> 00:03:06.142
and then you have Turkey.

00:03:06.142 --> 00:03:09.004
So -- being in, maybe, the primary;

00:03:09.004 --> 00:03:10.433
then the secondary;

00:03:10.433 --> 00:03:13.241
and then the third layer being in Turkey

00:03:13.241 --> 00:03:17.099
via Turkish actors there: both military

00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:19.638
-- not nearly as much any longer --

00:03:19.678 --> 00:03:24.263
but also by very large...

00:03:24.773 --> 00:03:26.300
what they refer to as

00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:29.637
the "Islamic factions,"

00:03:29.637 --> 00:03:31.885
several different Islamic factions.

00:03:31.885 --> 00:03:34.167
Well, I stand happily
corrected on that point.

00:03:34.167 --> 00:03:37.489
And you're right to bring that out:
Of course the field of operations

00:03:37.489 --> 00:03:41.550
is all over that Central Asia/Caucasus
region. And we have talked about this

00:03:41.550 --> 00:03:44.688
a little bit in some of our previous
conversations. But today, let's hone in

00:03:44.688 --> 00:03:47.991
on some of the characters and people
who have been connected to this.

00:03:48.151 --> 00:03:51.963
And there are lots of things to talk about.
I'm not sure where you want to start,

00:03:51.963 --> 00:03:55.199
but there are, of course, operations like
the Grey Wolves

00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:57.841
and others that have been
in Turkey for decades;

00:03:57.841 --> 00:04:01.118
that have done this type of
operation in the past,

00:04:01.118 --> 00:04:04.168
and characters like Abdullah Çatlı

00:04:04.168 --> 00:04:05.878
who has been involved in this

00:04:05.878 --> 00:04:07.390
and who has been all over

00:04:07.870 --> 00:04:10.262
in a very interesting life

00:04:10.262 --> 00:04:13.175
that ended in the Susurluk scandal
in 1996

00:04:13.175 --> 00:04:16.699
-- in quite an interesting fashion. I'm
not sure where you want to start

00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:20.595
that story, but perhaps you could paint a
picture for the listeners about how this

00:04:20.595 --> 00:04:26.657
really developed, and where it went
up until that point in the mid-1990s.

00:04:26.907 --> 00:04:28.781
Sure.

00:04:29.191 --> 00:04:35.034
Turkey always was <i>the most important</i>
center, country,

00:04:35.034 --> 00:04:37.291
in all this, Gladio operations,

00:04:37.291 --> 00:04:39.775
before the fall of the Soviet Union.

00:04:39.775 --> 00:04:41.894
It's interesting because when I go

00:04:41.894 --> 00:04:44.480
and read what's available

00:04:44.630 --> 00:04:45.906
to public online

00:04:45.906 --> 00:04:50.112
-- which is very, very little on Gladio:
that's why I was ecstatic

00:04:50.112 --> 00:04:53.642
when you had your interview on Gladio
a week ago --

00:04:53.642 --> 00:04:55.091
and what you see

00:04:55.091 --> 00:04:56.654
is usually things like Italy.

00:04:56.894 --> 00:04:58.890
It's, like, Gladio and Italy

00:04:58.890 --> 00:05:00.106
and how it unfolded,

00:05:00.106 --> 00:05:01.804
how it was disbanded,

00:05:01.804 --> 00:05:03.062
et cetera, et cetera.

00:05:03.062 --> 00:05:06.173
But you don't see much on Turkey,

00:05:06.173 --> 00:05:09.334
and Turkey was <i>the</i> most important,

00:05:09.334 --> 00:05:11.456
<i>the most important</i>

00:05:11.456 --> 00:05:13.558
operations center for Gladio.

00:05:13.558 --> 00:05:18.009
And obviously, it's because of,

00:05:18.009 --> 00:05:21.407
<b>A.</b> Its geographic location:

00:05:21.407 --> 00:05:23.783
Just take a look at Turkey on the map.

00:05:23.943 --> 00:05:25.135
And if you're looking

00:05:25.135 --> 00:05:27.407
for that period of time

00:05:27.407 --> 00:05:29.780
before the fall of the Soviet Union,

00:05:29.780 --> 00:05:31.648
from the Black Sea it goes eastern:

00:05:31.648 --> 00:05:34.743
you're looking at all the former
Soviet blocs in there.

00:05:34.968 --> 00:05:36.958
And then, again, its position

00:05:36.958 --> 00:05:40.038
within the Middle East,

00:05:40.038 --> 00:05:43.559
and the other side
being connected to Europe.

00:05:43.559 --> 00:05:48.420
So Turkey always had <i>the most position</i>

00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:51.001
within this Gladio operation

00:05:51.001 --> 00:05:54.993
until... before the fall of
the Soviet Union.

00:05:55.053 --> 00:05:57.357
And <i>that</i> you don't see.

00:05:57.357 --> 00:05:58.856
There are very few articles

00:05:58.856 --> 00:06:00.655
written out there scattered.

00:06:00.655 --> 00:06:02.931
There's one good one by
<i>Le Monde [Diplomatique]</i>

00:06:02.931 --> 00:06:05.275
which was concentrating mainly

00:06:05.275 --> 00:06:07.803
on the actors you just mentioned:

00:06:07.803 --> 00:06:10.972
Abdullah Çatlı and Susurluk incident.

00:06:10.972 --> 00:06:12.998
And you have couple of authors

00:06:12.998 --> 00:06:17.892
in Switzerland and in England
who have written about this.

00:06:17.892 --> 00:06:20.960
Nothing: nothing here,
in the United States, on that.

00:06:21.130 --> 00:06:25.092
So, I'll give you a little bit of history,

00:06:25.092 --> 00:06:27.021
because you covered a lot of this

00:06:27.181 --> 00:06:29.690
with your previous guest.

00:06:29.850 --> 00:06:33.216
But this history is going to
concentrate more

00:06:33.222 --> 00:06:35.768
on the character that we're
gonna be talking about

00:06:35.768 --> 00:06:38.912
and the Turkish side on this:

00:06:38.912 --> 00:06:40.511
Gladio operations,

00:06:40.511 --> 00:06:43.890
until the fall of the Soviet Union.

00:06:43.890 --> 00:06:45.100
And in Turkey,

00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:48.080
there were two prime groups

00:06:48.080 --> 00:06:51.624
that were working within Gladio network

00:06:51.624 --> 00:06:52.846
and carrying out

00:06:52.846 --> 00:06:55.372
some of the most important operations:

00:06:55.372 --> 00:06:56.803
in Western Europe;

00:06:56.803 --> 00:06:57.917
in Northern Europe;

00:06:57.917 --> 00:07:00.481
and mainly in Eastern Bloc.

00:07:00.671 --> 00:07:01.869
And that was:

00:07:01.869 --> 00:07:06.657
<b>1.</b> The formal, official Turkish military.

00:07:06.727 --> 00:07:08.208
And that is made up:

00:07:08.208 --> 00:07:09.659
both Turkish military

00:07:09.659 --> 00:07:11.951
and the Turkish military intelligence,

00:07:12.451 --> 00:07:15.503
directly connected to NATO, Brussels,

00:07:15.503 --> 00:07:17.735
and within the Gladio operations.

00:07:18.165 --> 00:07:20.888
But then, beneath the military

00:07:20.888 --> 00:07:22.365
-- Turkish official military --

00:07:22.365 --> 00:07:25.780
you had the paramilitary force.

00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:27.171
Who were these people?

00:07:27.171 --> 00:07:30.952
And that's very, very interesting.
These people...

00:07:31.092 --> 00:07:34.459
Again, you look at some of the articles,
and people talking about it:

00:07:34.459 --> 00:07:37.029
Yeah, they are saying,
"They are ultranationalists."

00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:39.608
But what kind of jobs did they have?

00:07:39.608 --> 00:07:42.547
Who were these people who were
recruited by Turkish military,

00:07:42.547 --> 00:07:45.357
trained, and absorbed into NATO's...

00:07:45.357 --> 00:07:46.239
-- US/NATO's --

00:07:46.239 --> 00:07:47.401
Gladio operations?

00:07:47.471 --> 00:07:51.063
Well, a lot of these people, actually:
in 1980s, they were in jail.

00:07:51.830 --> 00:07:54.747
They had positions that were...

00:07:54.747 --> 00:07:56.518
the best way to describe them

00:07:56.518 --> 00:07:59.249
would be the Godfathers in Turkey.

00:07:59.259 --> 00:08:00.010
"<i>Babas</i>."

00:08:00.010 --> 00:08:02.391
That's how they refer to them in Turkey:

00:08:02.391 --> 00:08:04.992
the <i>babas</i>, which means the Godfathers.

00:08:05.312 --> 00:08:07.265
They were the top people

00:08:07.265 --> 00:08:10.937
who ran blackmail,

00:08:11.327 --> 00:08:13.079
heroin operations.

00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:14.914
And even back then, it was...

00:08:14.914 --> 00:08:16.464
Turkey has always been

00:08:16.464 --> 00:08:18.444
the most important artery

00:08:18.444 --> 00:08:21.216
in moving heroin into Europe,

00:08:21.586 --> 00:08:22.724
whether it came

00:08:22.724 --> 00:08:25.002
through the borders through Iran,

00:08:25.172 --> 00:08:27.576
or it came via some Kurdish factions

00:08:27.576 --> 00:08:29.220
coming through Iraq...

00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:31.605
So Turkey has always been important.

00:08:31.695 --> 00:08:33.738
And these <i>babas</i> ran...

00:08:33.788 --> 00:08:36.361
-- and military did, too.
Turkish military did, too --

00:08:36.391 --> 00:08:38.654
But they were also ultranationalists;

00:08:38.654 --> 00:08:41.261
but they were
<i>secularist</i> ultranationalists.

00:08:41.261 --> 00:08:43.544
They put Atatürk...

00:08:43.544 --> 00:08:47.581
-- the father of Turkey,
the father of <i>modern</i> Turkey --

00:08:47.581 --> 00:08:49.786
in, basically, the place of God.

00:08:50.276 --> 00:08:51.330
And of course

00:08:51.330 --> 00:08:53.929
Atatürk advocated secularism

00:08:53.929 --> 00:08:55.478
-- <i>forced</i> secularism.

00:08:55.478 --> 00:08:57.956
And I have to emphasize this:
<i>forced</i> secularism.

00:08:58.084 --> 00:08:58.977
And these guys,

00:08:58.987 --> 00:09:00.920
even when I was growing up in Turkey,

00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:02.864
they were very easy to identify.

00:09:03.224 --> 00:09:05.592
They usually wore this mustache

00:09:05.592 --> 00:09:09.214
that really resembled the
Hitler mustache,

00:09:09.344 --> 00:09:11.216
and they had salutes that were like...

00:09:11.216 --> 00:09:13.573
for Grey Wolves, that was like this:

00:09:13.603 --> 00:09:16.741
And their <i>babas</i> were in jail.

00:09:16.741 --> 00:09:19.253
And these guys had informants all over:

00:09:19.253 --> 00:09:21.481
not only in Turkey, but in elsewhere.

00:09:21.751 --> 00:09:25.109
So, as part of Gladio's plan,

00:09:25.689 --> 00:09:29.227
Turkish military, Turkish police,
Turkish intelligence forces:

00:09:29.227 --> 00:09:31.377
they took all these notorious...

00:09:31.507 --> 00:09:34.556
-- I mean, these are psychopaths,
sociopaths!

00:09:34.686 --> 00:09:37.659
these people are mass-murderers --

00:09:37.839 --> 00:09:39.614
they took them out of those prisons.

00:09:39.824 --> 00:09:41.811
And they said, "You know what?"

00:09:41.811 --> 00:09:43.588
"Now you are going to..."

00:09:43.588 --> 00:09:46.565
"-- with your skills, with what you do,
with what you know --"

00:09:46.565 --> 00:09:49.197
"you are going to serve the State."

00:09:49.467 --> 00:09:51.149
And that is Turkey,

00:09:51.319 --> 00:09:54.111
and the Great Turkishness.

00:09:54.111 --> 00:09:57.573
And Great Turkishness is also being
protected by the West, because,

00:09:57.573 --> 00:09:59.864
"The Communist is out there:"
"They're gonna take us over."

00:09:59.864 --> 00:10:02.677
"Then we have these issues with
the Kurdish people..."

00:10:03.097 --> 00:10:05.768
"And meanwhile, you can also
fill out your own pockets."

00:10:05.989 --> 00:10:08.842
"You can still be big; you can still
be Godfather,"

00:10:08.842 --> 00:10:11.438
"<i>but</i> your main role..."

00:10:11.438 --> 00:10:15.111
" -- and this is why we are releasing you,
bringing you out -- is going to be"

00:10:15.561 --> 00:10:18.271
"serving us for all these operations"

00:10:19.121 --> 00:10:20.541
So these guys were removed,

00:10:20.831 --> 00:10:24.402
they were sent to various centers,
including in Brussels.

00:10:24.402 --> 00:10:28.014
And they received training,
both via Turkish military,

00:10:28.014 --> 00:10:31.394
via US-NATO forces...

00:10:31.634 --> 00:10:35.360
And they were given
diplomatic passports.

00:10:35.790 --> 00:10:38.580
Not only Turkish passports,

00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:40.660
but passports from various countries.

00:10:41.170 --> 00:10:44.513
And they still moved...

00:10:44.863 --> 00:10:47.986
worked in the area
where you move heroin;

00:10:47.986 --> 00:10:50.676
but also weapons smuggling,

00:10:51.306 --> 00:10:54.576
mass murders,
a lot of false flag attacks.

00:10:54.576 --> 00:10:57.257
Not only inside Turkey,

00:10:57.257 --> 00:10:59.388
but in other countries as well.

00:10:59.518 --> 00:11:01.884
And again, your guest
talked about some of these:

00:11:01.884 --> 00:11:04.795
the assassination attempts, the Pope,
et cetera, et cetera.

00:11:04.986 --> 00:11:08.308
And they also filled out
their own pockets.

00:11:08.308 --> 00:11:10.613
So, these were the characters.

00:11:10.753 --> 00:11:12.340
Now, it's very interesting:

00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:14.675
You'd say...
-- or, a lot of people would say --

00:11:14.675 --> 00:11:17.661
"Well, this was before:"

00:11:18.291 --> 00:11:19.562
"during Communism."

00:11:19.782 --> 00:11:22.216
"And we also did things with <i>mujahideen</i>s"

00:11:22.216 --> 00:11:24.100
"and Bin Laden in Afghanistan."

00:11:24.350 --> 00:11:25.057
And, also:

00:11:25.057 --> 00:11:27.304
"It deals a lot with Turkish politics,"

00:11:27.304 --> 00:11:31.180
"so why should that interest people
here in the United States?"

00:11:31.370 --> 00:11:33.413
And... because this is as much

00:11:33.413 --> 00:11:35.997
as they know, or they read, or they hear.

00:11:36.247 --> 00:11:39.688
So, what happens after the fall
of the Soviet Union?

00:11:40.428 --> 00:11:43.098
Well, the character you just mentioned,

00:11:43.098 --> 00:11:44.348
Abdullah Çatlı:

00:11:44.348 --> 00:11:46.909
he's one of the main foot-soldiers,

00:11:46.909 --> 00:11:48.569
one of the main commandos

00:11:48.569 --> 00:11:49.839
under the military

00:11:49.889 --> 00:11:51.370
-- which is Turkish military --

00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:54.035
...which is under NATO and
the United States.

00:11:54.035 --> 00:11:56.036
One of the most notorious figures.

00:11:56.116 --> 00:11:57.987
I mean, this guy was responsible

00:11:57.987 --> 00:11:59.368
in and outside Turkey

00:11:59.368 --> 00:12:01.693
of tens of thousands of murders.

00:12:01.723 --> 00:12:02.948
Bombs...

00:12:02.978 --> 00:12:05.505
-- in some cases they would just

00:12:05.505 --> 00:12:08.292
storm a house with medical
students in Turkey

00:12:08.292 --> 00:12:10.119
and they would cut everybody's heads.

00:12:10.119 --> 00:12:12.558
And those people were accused of

00:12:12.558 --> 00:12:16.667
advocating for socialism or communism.

00:12:17.287 --> 00:12:18.318
This guy,

00:12:18.318 --> 00:12:19.556
he actually ends up

00:12:19.556 --> 00:12:22.274
on the list of most wanted...

00:12:22.594 --> 00:12:25.500
-- INTERPOL's most wanted list, OK? --

00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:27.006
for various reasons.

00:12:27.006 --> 00:12:27.920
Murders...

00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:30.333
<i>international</i> murders,
not only murders in Turkey.

00:12:30.333 --> 00:12:33.729
We are looking at <i>INTERPOL's</i>
most wanted, right?

00:12:33.729 --> 00:12:36.041
Heroin smuggling, weapons smuggling...

00:12:36.041 --> 00:12:39.784
So he's on the top ten most wanted people;

00:12:39.784 --> 00:12:43.217
and this is post-Soviet Union.

00:12:43.217 --> 00:12:46.412
And he ends up in a jail,

00:12:46.412 --> 00:12:49.467
in a high-security prison in Switzerland.

00:12:49.467 --> 00:12:52.631
He gets arrested during one of his
movement's operations.

00:12:53.011 --> 00:12:55.480
And when you look at

00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:57.399
some of the reporting on this guy

00:12:57.699 --> 00:13:02.170
-- including the newspapers, or the
articles written on the Grey Wolves --

00:13:02.170 --> 00:13:04.103
it says: while he was in this

00:13:04.103 --> 00:13:06.737
high-security prison in Switzerland

00:13:06.737 --> 00:13:08.670
-- this is Abdullah Çatlı --

00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:10.593
he escaped.

00:13:10.713 --> 00:13:12.073
He actually escaped

00:13:12.073 --> 00:13:15.353
by support of helicopter.

00:13:15.603 --> 00:13:17.673
So you're in a high-security prison

00:13:17.683 --> 00:13:19.023
in <i>Switzerland</i>

00:13:19.063 --> 00:13:21.750
and you mysteriously escape

00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:23.517
<i>via helicopter.</i>

00:13:23.667 --> 00:13:25.954
And some more detailed stories

00:13:25.954 --> 00:13:27.741
from very few reporters

00:13:27.741 --> 00:13:29.521
who followed up and wrote on this:

00:13:29.521 --> 00:13:32.291
and <i>that was a NATO-owned helicopter!</i>

00:13:32.291 --> 00:13:34.732
I mean, this really sounds
like a movie plot,

00:13:34.732 --> 00:13:36.767
something that Hollywood would make.

00:13:36.837 --> 00:13:37.553
And so, yeah:

00:13:37.553 --> 00:13:40.479
this is the most wanted INTERPOL guy.

00:13:40.479 --> 00:13:42.526
It gets even stranger:

00:13:42.816 --> 00:13:44.167
Same guy,

00:13:44.477 --> 00:13:47.508
while still wanted after he escapes

00:13:47.508 --> 00:13:51.238
-- NATO helicopter from high-security
Swiss prison --

00:13:51.418 --> 00:13:54.984
he <i>mysteriously</i> ends up in England.

00:13:54.984 --> 00:13:57.120
In London. OK?

00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.595
And again, <i>mysteriously,</i>

00:13:59.595 --> 00:14:02.640
in 1989, the government

00:14:02.640 --> 00:14:03.626
-- UK government --

00:14:03.626 --> 00:14:05.490
grants him <i>citizenship!</i>

00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:06.602
Hah!

00:14:06.772 --> 00:14:09.195
It's not even one year
since he enters the UK.

00:14:09.195 --> 00:14:13.461
He is <i>still</i> the most wanted
on INTERPOL's list.

00:14:13.681 --> 00:14:16.443
And then, within a year after that,

00:14:16.443 --> 00:14:18.772
this same guy, Abdullah Çatlı,

00:14:18.772 --> 00:14:23.461
flies over, comes to the United States
-- and this is around 1990, 1991 --

00:14:23.582 --> 00:14:25.026
comes to Chicago,

00:14:25.176 --> 00:14:27.029
and is mysteriously given

00:14:27.029 --> 00:14:28.962
an <i>American</i> passport!

00:14:29.172 --> 00:14:32.986
-- an American Green Card;
this is not passport yet --

00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:35.288
And during all this time,

00:14:35.288 --> 00:14:40.513
he is among the top ten most wanted
people by INTERPOL.

00:14:41.418 --> 00:14:43.683
Now, the <i>first</i> question people
should ask...

00:14:43.683 --> 00:14:45.021
-- especially those who say,

00:14:45.021 --> 00:14:46.762
"Ah, this is about some..."

00:14:46.762 --> 00:14:49.173
"during Cold War and Communism,"

00:14:49.173 --> 00:14:51.864
"and it's Turkish internal politics..." :

00:14:52.274 --> 00:14:55.497
<i>Why</i> the most wanted guy by Interpol

00:14:55.497 --> 00:14:58.051
-- a notorious murderer, drug-runner --

00:14:58.051 --> 00:14:59.070
ends up in England

00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:00.313
of all the places,

00:15:00.313 --> 00:15:01.876
and gets a citizenship?

00:15:01.936 --> 00:15:04.004
<i>Why</i> he comes to the United States

00:15:04.004 --> 00:15:06.882
and is given another citizenship?

00:15:07.182 --> 00:15:09.224
So, that's the first questions

00:15:09.224 --> 00:15:10.816
listeners should be asking.

00:15:10.896 --> 00:15:15.615
And, <i>why Chicago</i> is where he settles?
-- and that's where he settles.

00:15:15.615 --> 00:15:17.502
And when he settles there,

00:15:17.552 --> 00:15:19.053
he has dozens

00:15:19.053 --> 00:15:21.444
of entries and exits from Chicago.

00:15:21.584 --> 00:15:23.816
And after the Susurluk scandal,

00:15:23.816 --> 00:15:26.243
-- which, I'm gonna get into it --

00:15:26.243 --> 00:15:28.379
it basically comes out,

00:15:28.389 --> 00:15:31.695
with all those investigations
they had in Turkey

00:15:31.815 --> 00:15:33.961
that from Chicago,

00:15:34.091 --> 00:15:37.391
he carried out all these operations

00:15:37.391 --> 00:15:39.741
in Central Asia, Caucasus,

00:15:39.741 --> 00:15:41.268
Eastern Europe,

00:15:41.268 --> 00:15:43.565
Xinjiang province of China.

00:15:43.565 --> 00:15:44.659
So he kept flying...

00:15:44.659 --> 00:15:47.691
-- while he's <i>still</i> most wanted
by INTERPOL.

00:15:48.163 --> 00:15:51.298
We don't know how and why
he got all those citizenships

00:15:51.298 --> 00:15:52.598
while he's most wanted,

00:15:52.668 --> 00:15:54.003
and why he carried

00:15:54.003 --> 00:15:56.238
four or five diplomatic passports.

00:15:56.528 --> 00:15:58.295
Nobody gets into those questions.

00:15:58.295 --> 00:15:59.839
And these diplomatic passports

00:15:59.839 --> 00:16:01.299
are not, only, given to him

00:16:01.299 --> 00:16:03.219
by government of Turkey.

00:16:03.569 --> 00:16:08.092
So he... one of his trips...
-- again, this is very well-documented --

00:16:08.092 --> 00:16:09.921
This is not conspiracy theory.

00:16:09.921 --> 00:16:11.631
This is not some Top Secret

00:16:11.631 --> 00:16:13.411
classified documents any longer,

00:16:13.411 --> 00:16:15.012
because this stuff all came out

00:16:15.012 --> 00:16:15.713
during this...

00:16:15.713 --> 00:16:17.446
after this scandal in Turkey.

00:16:17.686 --> 00:16:18.392
So he...

00:16:18.392 --> 00:16:20.870
in 1996, 1995,

00:16:20.870 --> 00:16:21.885
he is the one

00:16:21.885 --> 00:16:24.900
who goes to Azerbaijan <i>from</i> Chicago.

00:16:25.300 --> 00:16:27.916
Via Turkey: goes to Azerbaijan.

00:16:28.146 --> 00:16:29.784
With a team of several people,

00:16:29.784 --> 00:16:31.202
less than a dozen,

00:16:31.202 --> 00:16:32.504
he carries out this

00:16:32.504 --> 00:16:35.379
<i>attempted</i> assassination

00:16:35.729 --> 00:16:37.734
against Aliyev.

00:16:37.734 --> 00:16:39.752
This is the Aliyev <i>Senior</i>,

00:16:39.752 --> 00:16:41.574
before his son became

00:16:41.574 --> 00:16:45.146
the President of Azerbaijan.

00:16:45.146 --> 00:16:48.365
And it was <i>meant</i> to be an "attempted,"

00:16:48.515 --> 00:16:50.484
that would not succeed.

00:16:50.824 --> 00:16:53.436
Because if you look at Azerbaijan's

00:16:53.436 --> 00:16:55.078
position during that same time,

00:16:55.078 --> 00:16:57.558
1994 to 1996,

00:16:58.358 --> 00:17:00.868
before this assassination attempt,

00:17:01.188 --> 00:17:02.980
you would see that Aliyev

00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:05.498
was still siding with Russia.

00:17:05.858 --> 00:17:08.522
It was still the old loyalties:

00:17:08.812 --> 00:17:11.326
the old loyalties of,

00:17:11.326 --> 00:17:14.512
"We were part of the Soviet Union,"

00:17:14.752 --> 00:17:17.678
"and we are still siding with Russia."

00:17:18.268 --> 00:17:22.064
Now, this is when the United States,
-- the West --

00:17:22.064 --> 00:17:24.189
was trying by its proxy, Turkey...

00:17:24.189 --> 00:17:26.363
-- Why Turkey? They speak Turkish.

00:17:26.503 --> 00:17:29.955
What language do they speak in these
countries, including Azerbaijan?

00:17:30.075 --> 00:17:30.930
Turkish.

00:17:31.360 --> 00:17:32.259
They are Muslim:

00:17:32.419 --> 00:17:34.480
What's the religion in Azerbaijan

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.881
and all these ex-Soviet blocs?

00:17:37.071 --> 00:17:37.903
Muslims.

00:17:37.903 --> 00:17:41.041
So: this was the ideal proxy

00:17:41.041 --> 00:17:43.249
to go grab countries

00:17:43.249 --> 00:17:44.993
like Tajikistan,

00:17:44.993 --> 00:17:46.632
and Kyrgyzstan

00:17:46.632 --> 00:17:48.321
and Azerbaijan,

00:17:48.611 --> 00:17:51.952
and say, "OK: Say bye-bye to Russia."

00:17:51.952 --> 00:17:54.293
"We want you to be one of us." Right?

00:17:54.476 --> 00:17:55.648
Well, of course, Russia

00:17:55.648 --> 00:17:58.080
was doing its part from the other side.

00:17:58.170 --> 00:17:59.680
So during this period

00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.480
when this assassination
attempt occurred,

00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:03.596
Aliyev <i>Senior</i>

00:18:03.596 --> 00:18:05.522
-- the President in Azerbaijan --

00:18:05.522 --> 00:18:07.858
still was loyal to Russia.

00:18:07.978 --> 00:18:09.547
And all these different attempts

00:18:09.547 --> 00:18:11.196
to move him to the other side

00:18:11.196 --> 00:18:12.997
had not been successful,

00:18:13.627 --> 00:18:16.279
so they moved to plans

00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.121
that included assassination attempt,

00:18:19.131 --> 00:18:20.615
paired up with blackmails.

00:18:20.615 --> 00:18:22.447
Because, again: during this time,

00:18:22.837 --> 00:18:24.478
the doors, the borders were open

00:18:24.478 --> 00:18:25.669
in Azerbaijan.

00:18:25.669 --> 00:18:27.951
A lot of these Turkish <i>babas</i>,

00:18:27.951 --> 00:18:28.736
Godfathers,

00:18:28.736 --> 00:18:29.591
moved in there,

00:18:29.591 --> 00:18:33.067
and they opened really lavish,
interesting casinos.

00:18:33.067 --> 00:18:34.868
You'd say, "Casinos? Azerbaijan?"

00:18:34.868 --> 00:18:35.609
Yeah!

00:18:35.609 --> 00:18:36.973
And, guess what?

00:18:36.973 --> 00:18:38.587
Several of Aliyev's family

00:18:38.587 --> 00:18:41.420
were given advance offerings

00:18:41.420 --> 00:18:42.503
in these casinos,

00:18:42.503 --> 00:18:45.294
and they collected a lot of debt,

00:18:45.655 --> 00:18:48.878
-- and this is people very close to
Aliyev <i>Senior</i>.

00:18:48.878 --> 00:18:52.568
And they started getting death threats,
saying, "Well, if you don't pay off"

00:18:52.568 --> 00:18:56.688
"these millions-and-millions dollars of
debt in your casino gambling debt,"

00:18:56.688 --> 00:18:58.388
"we're gonna take you out."

00:18:58.388 --> 00:19:00.485
Then comes the assassination attempt.

00:19:00.715 --> 00:19:03.585
So, again: if people were to go
and look at the records

00:19:03.585 --> 00:19:06.472
on this assassination attempt on Aliyev,

00:19:06.472 --> 00:19:08.994
they would see Abdullah Çatlı's name.

00:19:08.994 --> 00:19:11.770
They would see that Aliyev
came out and said,

00:19:11.770 --> 00:19:14.166
"The people responsible for this"

00:19:14.166 --> 00:19:16.956
"were NATO/US via Turkey."

00:19:17.076 --> 00:19:18.777
And the Turkish President calling

00:19:18.777 --> 00:19:20.838
and saying, "No, these were the thugs,"

00:19:20.838 --> 00:19:23.910
"the mafia people: they have
nothing to do with us!"

00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:25.605
-- all these denials.

00:19:25.805 --> 00:19:28.136
Whatever happened, is...

00:19:28.136 --> 00:19:30.607
Aliyev very quickly switched position

00:19:30.607 --> 00:19:33.759
after this assassination attempt, OK?

00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:35.654
You fast-forward, look at Azerbaijan:

00:19:35.654 --> 00:19:37.163
Since 1996,

00:19:37.163 --> 00:19:40.292
Azerbaijan's been the closest ally

00:19:40.292 --> 00:19:42.531
of the United States and NATO.

00:19:42.531 --> 00:19:46.272
In fact, they are becoming
a NATO member.

00:19:46.522 --> 00:19:50.155
For the last eight years, NATO has been
there with a base, training them.

00:19:50.155 --> 00:19:52.021
They've been passing the tests.

00:19:52.021 --> 00:19:54.179
They went from purchasing

00:19:54.179 --> 00:19:59.337
something like $25 million worth
of weapons from the United States,

00:19:59.337 --> 00:20:05.127
today to something like $4...
three-and-a-half, $4 <i>billions</i> of...

00:20:05.307 --> 00:20:08.628
four billion dollars of US weapons.

00:20:08.628 --> 00:20:11.866
So: success! Gladio was successful.

00:20:11.866 --> 00:20:13.622
It was... who carried it out?

00:20:13.622 --> 00:20:14.598
Abdullah Çatlı.

00:20:14.598 --> 00:20:17.734
After he finished, he just shook his hand

00:20:17.734 --> 00:20:19.586
and said, "OK, mission accomplished."

00:20:19.686 --> 00:20:21.247
Came back again to Chicago.

00:20:21.807 --> 00:20:25.037
Now, I'm going to open a parenthesis
here and say, remember:

00:20:25.337 --> 00:20:26.849
for the past 11, 12 years,

00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:28.671
I've been talking about the center

00:20:28.671 --> 00:20:30.159
of all these operations

00:20:30.639 --> 00:20:33.167
that have to do with my
state secrets privilege,

00:20:33.167 --> 00:20:34.710
and people involved,

00:20:34.710 --> 00:20:36.423
was in Chicago.

00:20:36.423 --> 00:20:38.468
I have been saying "Chicago"
so many times!

00:20:38.468 --> 00:20:40.079
So I don't believe anyone is...

00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.380
-- at least not your listeners, or mine --

00:20:42.600 --> 00:20:43.762
who haven't heard this:

00:20:43.762 --> 00:20:45.404
me saying, "Chicago, Chicago."

00:20:45.404 --> 00:20:46.737
So: he went back to Chicago.

00:20:46.737 --> 00:20:48.458
This was <i>one</i> of his trips.

00:20:48.458 --> 00:20:50.199
His other trips included

00:20:50.199 --> 00:20:51.797
going from the other side,

00:20:51.797 --> 00:20:52.855
through the Pacific:

00:20:52.855 --> 00:20:53.886
going to China.

00:20:53.946 --> 00:20:55.027
And then, from there,

00:20:55.027 --> 00:20:56.968
going to this area, Xinjiang.

00:20:56.968 --> 00:20:58.864
This is extremely important.

00:20:58.864 --> 00:21:02.030
Again, Xinjiang: Muslim population.

00:21:02.030 --> 00:21:03.662
And they are referred to...

00:21:03.662 --> 00:21:06.144
-- in Turkey, they don't call them
Xinjiang.

00:21:06.824 --> 00:21:08.638
It's "[East] Turkestan,"

00:21:08.828 --> 00:21:12.062
[East] Turkestan.
They speak Turkic dialect.

00:21:12.062 --> 00:21:13.312
Guess what?

00:21:13.312 --> 00:21:15.385
"Up there? A great place!"

00:21:15.595 --> 00:21:18.528
"Imagine, they get their independence: "

00:21:19.158 --> 00:21:21.539
"We can have our little mini base there!"

00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.570
"You know how close we are to China?"

00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.338
I mean, on one hand you can say,
"Yeah, there's Taiwan out there."

00:21:27.338 --> 00:21:30.338
Well, this is going to be even
more important than Taiwan!

00:21:30.338 --> 00:21:31.343
And then, look again:

00:21:31.343 --> 00:21:34.493
the other important strategic location

00:21:34.493 --> 00:21:35.933
for Xinjiang

00:21:35.933 --> 00:21:38.874
-- for [East] Turkestan,
a.k.a. Uyghuristan --

00:21:38.874 --> 00:21:41.879
You look out there: you see Pakistan;
you see Afghanistan.

00:21:41.879 --> 00:21:44.680
This is a very important region.

00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.591
This has been a very important
region, prize,

00:21:48.591 --> 00:21:50.675
for the United States, for the West.

00:21:50.675 --> 00:21:51.657
We've been...

00:21:51.657 --> 00:21:53.939
We've been doing a lot of things there.

00:21:53.939 --> 00:21:55.333
Every time you hear...

00:21:55.563 --> 00:21:58.078
-- at least when I was working there,

00:21:58.078 --> 00:21:59.911
during this period that

00:21:59.911 --> 00:22:01.564
FBI was investigating these...

00:22:01.564 --> 00:22:03.829
-- not operations there, but people here:

00:22:03.829 --> 00:22:05.219
the criminals in the US,

00:22:05.219 --> 00:22:07.899
who <i>carried out</i> the operations there.

00:22:08.429 --> 00:22:09.528
Those terrorist attacks:

00:22:10.098 --> 00:22:11.247
they were orchestrated

00:22:12.007 --> 00:22:13.666
from a long distance.

00:22:14.276 --> 00:22:15.606
You go to Turkey;

00:22:15.606 --> 00:22:17.836
Then, from Turkey, you go to Brussels;

00:22:17.836 --> 00:22:19.279
to England;

00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:21.302
and then you go to the United States.

00:22:21.302 --> 00:22:22.550
So, all the orchestration:

00:22:22.550 --> 00:22:26.358
it's not some minorities or some Muslims
get together, suddenly they go and...

00:22:26.738 --> 00:22:27.736
It doesn't happen.

00:22:27.736 --> 00:22:29.258
It didn't happen that way,

00:22:29.258 --> 00:22:30.950
at least during that period.

00:22:30.950 --> 00:22:32.366
And this guy from Chicago

00:22:32.366 --> 00:22:35.538
was sent to go and organize,

00:22:35.958 --> 00:22:38.845
carry out a couple of terrorism,

00:22:39.065 --> 00:22:40.522
uprising events:

00:22:40.522 --> 00:22:41.380
turn around,

00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:42.852
back to Chicago again.

00:22:42.852 --> 00:22:44.414
Back to Chicago again.

00:22:44.634 --> 00:22:47.144
So: NATO,

00:22:47.144 --> 00:22:48.594
the Gladio operation,

00:22:48.794 --> 00:22:51.284
via Turkish military,
and Turkish

00:22:51.284 --> 00:22:56.384
Godfather-ultranationalist-criminal-thug
paramilitary

00:22:56.644 --> 00:23:00.684
continued until around 1996.

00:23:01.144 --> 00:23:03.057
Towards the period...

00:23:03.057 --> 00:23:05.592
-- like, 1994 to 1996 --

00:23:06.042 --> 00:23:07.377
the decision-makers,

00:23:07.377 --> 00:23:10.094
-- the top layers of NATO, the US...

00:23:10.184 --> 00:23:14.004
-- what we usually refer to as
"shadow government," "the powers" --

00:23:14.254 --> 00:23:16.486
they were having this debate.

00:23:16.486 --> 00:23:19.908
They were having this...
two options in front of them.

00:23:19.908 --> 00:23:21.692
Two plans: which one is better?

00:23:21.692 --> 00:23:23.838
One is what they did

00:23:23.838 --> 00:23:26.104
before the fall of the Soviet Union:

00:23:26.184 --> 00:23:29.142
and that was using ultranationalism

00:23:29.142 --> 00:23:30.729
-- fascism, OK? --

00:23:30.729 --> 00:23:32.992
against the Soviet Union;

00:23:32.992 --> 00:23:34.515
against Communism.

00:23:34.615 --> 00:23:37.673
<i>Versus,</i> what they have already seen

00:23:37.673 --> 00:23:42.871
as a very successful, successful plan:

00:23:42.871 --> 00:23:44.820
<b>1</b>. They saw it in Afghanistan

00:23:44.820 --> 00:23:47.089
with the <i>mujahideen</i>s, Bin Laden group.

00:23:47.089 --> 00:23:48.360
But then, recently...

00:23:48.360 --> 00:23:52.068
-- and this is 1994, 1995, 1996 --

00:23:52.068 --> 00:23:54.783
they were seeing its use
again and again:

00:23:55.033 --> 00:23:57.648
in the Balkans,

00:23:57.648 --> 00:23:59.493
in the Kosovo region,

00:23:59.493 --> 00:24:01.008
in Bosnia.

00:24:01.138 --> 00:24:03.717
And this is when we have
all these <i>mujahideen</i>:

00:24:03.717 --> 00:24:07.056
Bin Laden, Zawahiri...
-- think about it, you know? --

00:24:07.066 --> 00:24:10.224
factions from Egypt,
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan:

00:24:10.574 --> 00:24:11.720
bringing them to Turkey.

00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:14.286
Train them; bring them over there.

00:24:14.286 --> 00:24:15.456
It was, like:

00:24:15.876 --> 00:24:19.936
"You know, these ultranationalists:
they haven't been very productive."

00:24:19.936 --> 00:24:25.254
"And we think the <i>mujahideen</i>
Islamist factions"

00:24:25.254 --> 00:24:27.298
"are gonna much more useful"

00:24:27.678 --> 00:24:30.307
"in our main objective of taking over: "

00:24:30.307 --> 00:24:34.357
"having more of these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side."

00:24:34.357 --> 00:24:35.904
OK? "On our side."

00:24:36.124 --> 00:24:39.517
So this is...
during this, sometimes we use <i>them</i>;

00:24:39.517 --> 00:24:45.981
sometimes we use the fascist
Godfather ultranationalists.

00:24:45.981 --> 00:24:49.186
But then, in nineteen... end of 1996,

00:24:49.266 --> 00:24:53.617
Abdullah Çatlı -- the man we've been
talking about; the thug, who went through

00:24:53.617 --> 00:24:58.274
Xinjiang and all this stuff --
he comes to Turkey for another mission

00:24:58.397 --> 00:25:00.750
that he was gonna go and implement.

00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:04.193
However: while he's in Turkey,

00:25:04.193 --> 00:25:06.095
together with some beauty queen

00:25:06.095 --> 00:25:08.587
and a few other colleagues...

00:25:08.587 --> 00:25:09.497
they are in Turkey,

00:25:09.497 --> 00:25:11.499
they are traveling in this black Mercedes,

00:25:11.499 --> 00:25:13.456
and they have a car crash, and...

00:25:14.936 --> 00:25:17.163
they <i>die</i>.

00:25:17.273 --> 00:25:21.332
Everyone in the car -- except one guy --
dies. Right?

00:25:21.572 --> 00:25:24.249
Well, before the Turkish police
or military

00:25:24.249 --> 00:25:25.576
got to the bodies,

00:25:25.576 --> 00:25:27.295
the <i>local</i> police

00:25:27.295 --> 00:25:30.224
-- that wouldn't know anything about
who were these people --

00:25:30.434 --> 00:25:31.956
and the local <i>journalists</i>

00:25:31.956 --> 00:25:33.648
got to the scene.

00:25:33.798 --> 00:25:35.773
And, lo and behold:

00:25:35.773 --> 00:25:38.157
here is the world's most wanted man,

00:25:38.157 --> 00:25:43.021
Abdullah Çatlı, the great Godfather,

00:25:43.021 --> 00:25:45.665
with all his diplomatic passports
with him.

00:25:46.085 --> 00:25:47.407
But, not only that:

00:25:47.407 --> 00:25:48.265
together with him,

00:25:48.265 --> 00:25:51.093
you have the Chief of Police of Turkey.

00:25:51.243 --> 00:25:52.783
I mean, the <i>top</i> police guy.

00:25:52.783 --> 00:25:57.018
You have incredibly important
<i>legit</i> political figures.

00:25:57.018 --> 00:25:58.935
It was like, "WTF, woman!"

00:25:58.935 --> 00:26:02.602
"What are they doing in the car
with this guy?" -- Died.

00:26:02.772 --> 00:26:03.845
Basically, this was...

00:26:03.845 --> 00:26:04.728
well, in Turkey,

00:26:04.728 --> 00:26:07.836
-- even though it had been leaked
in little bits and pieces --

00:26:07.836 --> 00:26:10.060
it was this huge exposure

00:26:10.060 --> 00:26:12.276
of the thugs

00:26:12.276 --> 00:26:15.182
-- criminal, ultranationalist fascists --

00:26:15.182 --> 00:26:17.269
actually working with -- and for --

00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:20.160
the Turkish government.
And for right now, I'm gonna keep it...

00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:21.161
"Turkish government:"

00:26:21.171 --> 00:26:22.599
that is, the Turkish military;

00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.369
the Turkish...
the legit Turkish institutions, right?

00:26:26.659 --> 00:26:28.624
So, all the drug-running they were doing,

00:26:28.624 --> 00:26:30.003
they were all controlled

00:26:30.493 --> 00:26:33.262
and managed by <i>the state</i>.

00:26:33.392 --> 00:26:35.633
And all the killings, the terrorisms

00:26:35.633 --> 00:26:38.604
that they're found responsible for:

00:26:38.604 --> 00:26:42.951
again, they were executed <i>for</i> the state.

00:26:44.074 --> 00:26:45.900
This was <i>huge</i> in Turkey.

00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:47.522
It caused an uproar.

00:26:47.522 --> 00:26:50.214
A lot of documents started leaking.

00:26:50.504 --> 00:26:52.755
Just like "9/11 Commission,"

00:26:52.915 --> 00:26:54.626
there was this huge commission

00:26:54.626 --> 00:26:55.817
established in Turkey.

00:26:56.097 --> 00:26:58.174
Nobody talked about anything else

00:26:58.174 --> 00:27:00.701
but this Susurluk... they called it
"Susurluk Scandal"

00:27:00.771 --> 00:27:02.045
because the car accident

00:27:02.045 --> 00:27:04.099
took place in Susurluk.

00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:06.079
Now:

00:27:06.869 --> 00:27:08.669
there was this fear by the West

00:27:08.669 --> 00:27:11.621
-- and this is the United States,
the Europeans --

00:27:11.621 --> 00:27:12.937
like, <i>"Uh-Oh!"</i>

00:27:13.277 --> 00:27:15.923
"Now, we know that a lot of these
commission members,"

00:27:15.923 --> 00:27:18.140
"they are like <i>ours</i>: Thomas Kean, and..."

00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:19.406
"but:"

00:27:19.406 --> 00:27:21.192
"some of them...
-- or, by default -- "

00:27:21.192 --> 00:27:23.124
"a lot of other"
-- excuse my language --

00:27:23.124 --> 00:27:24.658
"crap may come out"

00:27:24.848 --> 00:27:27.658
"about <i>our</i> roles, the stuff <i>we</i> did."

00:27:27.938 --> 00:27:30.109
<i>"We"</i> being the ultimate bosses.

00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:32.490
And guess what happened?

00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:38.285
One of the Turkish Gladio
handlers <i>in</i> Turkey

00:27:38.285 --> 00:27:40.060
was an ambassador,

00:27:40.060 --> 00:27:43.668
United States Ambassador in Turkey
at the time.

00:27:44.078 --> 00:27:46.634
This guy was Ambassador from 1992

00:27:46.634 --> 00:27:48.702
until the Susurluk scandal:

00:27:49.452 --> 00:27:53.090
no other guy than Marc Grossman:
the guy... I have been saying

00:27:53.090 --> 00:27:56.061
for the past five [years],
"You've got to look at Marc Grossman."

00:27:56.061 --> 00:28:04.033
So, with this fear that a lot of secrets
-- state secrets -- were going to get out

00:28:04.033 --> 00:28:07.193
during this: investigations, and
journalists digging in...

00:28:07.193 --> 00:28:10.292
-- some people were leaking;
some people were talking --

00:28:11.142 --> 00:28:15.595
the United States right away
got their man out of Turkey:

00:28:15.595 --> 00:28:16.568
Marc Grossman.

00:28:16.568 --> 00:28:17.641
No reason cited.

00:28:17.641 --> 00:28:20.314
He still had another one-and-a-half,
two years left.

00:28:20.314 --> 00:28:21.529
No reason cited.

00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:23.176
Guess who else was pulled?

00:28:23.176 --> 00:28:26.478
Another guy who was handling
the Operation Gladio,

00:28:26.598 --> 00:28:27.776
the Turkish militants

00:28:27.776 --> 00:28:30.524
in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

00:28:30.524 --> 00:28:32.035
This man, his name:

00:28:32.035 --> 00:28:33.514
-- at the time, a Major --

00:28:33.514 --> 00:28:35.573
Major Douglas Dickerson.

00:28:35.793 --> 00:28:36.741
This is the man...

00:28:36.741 --> 00:28:39.459
-- if you have read my book;
if you know my case --

00:28:39.589 --> 00:28:41.923
was the one who was married

00:28:41.923 --> 00:28:44.107
to this spy in the FBI.

00:28:44.237 --> 00:28:45.724
Major Douglas Dickerson:

00:28:45.724 --> 00:28:47.581
he still had one-and-a-half years left.

00:28:47.581 --> 00:28:50.289
He was working for Marc Grossman
in Ankara.

00:28:50.469 --> 00:28:53.629
His main task under NATO

00:28:53.949 --> 00:28:55.032
was operations...

00:28:55.032 --> 00:28:58.425
Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan:
There were three or four countries,

00:28:58.479 --> 00:29:03.917
that he directed the Turkish paramilitary
Gladio operations in those countries.

00:29:03.937 --> 00:29:05.574
Lo and behold: the same man

00:29:05.574 --> 00:29:06.914
-- this is documented --

00:29:07.114 --> 00:29:09.727
he is pulled off of his position

00:29:09.727 --> 00:29:12.614
and immediately sent to a base
in <i>Germany</i>

00:29:12.614 --> 00:29:16.309
-- this is American military base --
and from there to <i>Brussels.</i>

00:29:16.429 --> 00:29:18.494
Hah! <i>This</i> is interesting!

00:29:18.634 --> 00:29:19.992
Now, these characters

00:29:19.992 --> 00:29:23.199
-- that've been talked about in my case
for 12 years --

00:29:23.199 --> 00:29:24.696
were there in 1997.

00:29:24.696 --> 00:29:26.892
<i>Susurluk happens:</i> they were pulled out.

00:29:27.012 --> 00:29:30.460
So was the top military man...

00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:33.328
-- and this was the top man
for the Turkish

00:29:33.518 --> 00:29:37.577
so-called "<i>counter</i>terrorism"
operations commando --

00:29:37.987 --> 00:29:40.622
was sent on a mission

00:29:40.622 --> 00:29:45.677
to Washington, DC Turkish Embassy.
-- and again, this is documented --

00:29:45.677 --> 00:29:47.863
Right after Susurluk, they had
to get <i>him</i> out.

00:29:47.863 --> 00:29:49.825
He was a <i>chief</i> guy in the military

00:29:49.825 --> 00:29:52.397
overseeing these thugs and
these operations;

00:29:52.397 --> 00:29:56.019
these false terror, false flag operations.

00:29:56.019 --> 00:29:57.363
Not only in Turkey:

00:29:57.363 --> 00:29:59.296
Central Asia, Caucasus.

00:29:59.496 --> 00:30:01.549
A lot of Chechen operations;

00:30:01.999 --> 00:30:03.262
Eastern Europe.

00:30:03.362 --> 00:30:04.597
So, <i>he</i> was pulled.

00:30:04.597 --> 00:30:06.082
He was sent to Washington, DC.

00:30:06.182 --> 00:30:07.364
He never went back.

00:30:07.654 --> 00:30:09.446
Again, nobody cited any reason.

00:30:09.446 --> 00:30:11.310
They took all these important figures:

00:30:11.470 --> 00:30:13.820
they took them to Brussels,

00:30:13.820 --> 00:30:16.360
and they took them to Washington, DC.

00:30:16.830 --> 00:30:18.652
And...

00:30:18.842 --> 00:30:20.350
then it was

00:30:20.350 --> 00:30:21.978
the decision-making time

00:30:21.978 --> 00:30:24.948
for the "top guys in the world..."

00:30:25.048 --> 00:30:27.203
-- For NATO, US, UK --

00:30:27.203 --> 00:30:27.933
saying:

00:30:27.933 --> 00:30:30.083
"Too much exposure."

00:30:30.083 --> 00:30:31.523
"This chapter is closed."

00:30:31.523 --> 00:30:33.390
"<i>Gladio</i> is <i>not</i> closed: "

00:30:33.390 --> 00:30:35.167
"We are going to Plan B,"

00:30:35.307 --> 00:30:37.494
"Gladio Plan B operations..."

00:30:37.494 --> 00:30:40.791
"which... we have already <i>prepared</i>
for it some, to some extent."

00:30:40.791 --> 00:30:42.136
"And that is: "

00:30:42.136 --> 00:30:46.140
"we are not gonna use paramilitary;"

00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:48.504
"we're gonna use Islamist factions."

00:30:48.504 --> 00:30:51.619
"Who? a.k.a. <i>mujahideen</i>s."

00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:54.394
"a.k.a. <i>al-Qaeda</i>."

00:30:55.541 --> 00:30:58.992
(Sibel): So... this is, again...
(James): OK, let's... so...

00:30:58.992 --> 00:31:00.564
Just think about Bosnia.

00:31:00.694 --> 00:31:03.748
OK, that's an incredible amount of
information; so just to be

00:31:03.748 --> 00:31:07.622
absolutely clear: I think it <i>is</i> clear
that you're saying that the Susurluk

00:31:07.622 --> 00:31:11.680
scandal and what happened to Çatlı
was not -- that was not something they

00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.378
wanted to happen; that was not
something that was planned: He was not

00:31:14.378 --> 00:31:18.316
taken out of the picture, but it was as a
as a <i>result</i> of his death that they

00:31:18.316 --> 00:31:22.162
switched to Plan B. They weren't going
to switch to Plan B until that happened?

00:31:24.648 --> 00:31:26.975
Nobody knows the answer to that,

00:31:26.975 --> 00:31:28.541
because there are so many

00:31:28.541 --> 00:31:30.587
questions surrounding this accident.

00:31:30.587 --> 00:31:34.134
First of all, how this guy, unscratched,
walked out of the car, OK?

00:31:34.481 --> 00:31:38.510
And there were also some questions
about -- that they may have been,

00:31:38.510 --> 00:31:42.165
actually, dead before the accident.
Because there was this autopsy report

00:31:42.165 --> 00:31:48.250
that their heads, a few of them,
were <i>broken</i> -- <i>before</i> the crash.

00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:51.911
So, nobody knows who's responsible.

00:31:51.911 --> 00:31:54.814
Was that staged? If so, which faction?

00:31:54.814 --> 00:31:59.621
Is it something that...
OK, the top guy said,

00:31:59.781 --> 00:32:02.861
"We want to eventually
eliminate these guys,"

00:32:02.861 --> 00:32:06.361
"because they are in some ways out
of control: we want to go to Plan B?"

00:32:06.601 --> 00:32:09.162
Was it someone else? We don't know.

00:32:09.162 --> 00:32:10.604
And to this day...

00:32:10.604 --> 00:32:12.736
you know how we scream about 9/11?

00:32:12.736 --> 00:32:14.720
Well, in Turkey, since 1996,

00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:16.644
people have been screaming "Susurluk."

00:32:16.644 --> 00:32:18.512
Instead of "9/11" they say "Susurluk,"

00:32:18.512 --> 00:32:21.289
because a lot of stuff
-- whether it's the Deep State... --

00:32:21.289 --> 00:32:23.722
a lot of questions still remain

00:32:23.722 --> 00:32:25.765
unanswered about it, and
that's one of them.

00:32:25.765 --> 00:32:27.996
And that is: was it an accident?

00:32:27.996 --> 00:32:30.087
We don't know. <i>Nobody</i> knows.

00:32:30.087 --> 00:32:31.450
Were any of the other <i>babas</i>

00:32:31.450 --> 00:32:33.317
similarly rubbed out

00:32:33.317 --> 00:32:35.344
in interesting incidents?

00:32:35.414 --> 00:32:38.395
One interesting character

00:32:38.395 --> 00:32:41.666
who was, again, a huge figure, and...

00:32:41.666 --> 00:32:45.338
-- we used to have a little summer
cottage, my husband and I, because

00:32:45.338 --> 00:32:47.760
we went to Turkey every year
before all this,

00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:49.593
FBI things, happened; whistleblowing.

00:32:49.593 --> 00:32:52.686
And in this little, small
fishing-village city

00:32:52.686 --> 00:32:56.357
-- which is now very fashionable; it
wasn't back then when we got it --

00:32:56.357 --> 00:33:00.176
but, one of the babas had a few
hotels and casinos there.

00:33:00.176 --> 00:33:01.797
While, actually, we were there

00:33:01.797 --> 00:33:06.638
-- I was in Turkey, and this is
1999, 1998 --

00:33:06.638 --> 00:33:09.389
he was assassinated, during
the daylight.

00:33:09.389 --> 00:33:17.009
A <i>lot</i> of these Gladio <i>babas</i> were being
taken out. And in some cases,

00:33:17.009 --> 00:33:19.963
they would get some <i>other</i> <i>babas</i>
[to] take out some <i>other</i> <i>babas.</i>

00:33:19.963 --> 00:33:21.721
So, Godfather against Godfather.

00:33:21.721 --> 00:33:25.165
Who was managing one Godfather against...?

00:33:25.165 --> 00:33:27.230
But, a lot of them were taken out.

00:33:27.230 --> 00:33:29.441
And again, now, this is when

00:33:29.441 --> 00:33:31.002
we completely went to Plan B...

00:33:31.002 --> 00:33:32.535
--<i>"we:"</i> United States, NATO --

00:33:32.535 --> 00:33:34.903
and said, "We're gonna use <i>mujahideen</i>."

00:33:34.903 --> 00:33:39.486
What happened to the ultranationalist
fascist guys? For a while...

00:33:39.676 --> 00:33:44.621
some of the main ones were taken out;
some of the other ones were left alone.

00:33:44.621 --> 00:33:46.466
They stayed rogue for a while,

00:33:46.466 --> 00:33:48.177
tried to have their own thing.

00:33:48.177 --> 00:33:52.941
It's like, "United States kind of
turned... is turning its back to us."

00:33:53.205 --> 00:33:56.584
"We were [backed?]... And the
same thing is true with the state."

00:33:56.773 --> 00:34:00.194
So things, for a while, were
kind of murky.

00:34:01.204 --> 00:34:03.153
Then came the current Turkish regime,

00:34:03.153 --> 00:34:05.767
the Islamic government in Turkey.

00:34:06.017 --> 00:34:09.309
It's <i>very interesting,</i> because

00:34:09.789 --> 00:34:12.241
in the United States, a lot
of things came up,

00:34:12.241 --> 00:34:15.707
writings saying US was kind of <i>worried</i>

00:34:15.707 --> 00:34:18.763
about this Islamic government in Turkey:

00:34:19.873 --> 00:34:21.618
"What is gonna <i>happen</i> in Turkey?"

00:34:21.618 --> 00:34:24.123
"Are they gonna end up being
another <i>Iran</i>?"

00:34:24.123 --> 00:34:26.168
Et cetera, et cetera.

00:34:26.168 --> 00:34:28.123
It was... it's so interesting:

00:34:28.123 --> 00:34:32.008
it's like using reverse
psychology with people.

00:34:32.028 --> 00:34:35.218
And you get to see that a <i>lot</i>
in the Middle East.

00:34:35.328 --> 00:34:38.067
And that is... let's say US wants

00:34:38.067 --> 00:34:40.386
to install a puppet regime there.

00:34:40.386 --> 00:34:42.957
One of the first things that has to happen,

00:34:42.967 --> 00:34:44.511
there needs to be this illusion

00:34:44.511 --> 00:34:47.125
that US is <i>worried</i> about this regime

00:34:47.125 --> 00:34:50.401
and that this regime is <i>tough</i>
on US or Israel

00:34:50.401 --> 00:34:52.643
to get the support of the majority;

00:34:52.643 --> 00:34:54.325
to be legitimized.

00:34:54.325 --> 00:34:57.692
So in many cases, that's actually a tactic.

00:34:57.889 --> 00:35:00.366
It's like, you write there,
you say you're concerned,

00:35:00.366 --> 00:35:01.974
when this is your <i>first</i> choice:

00:35:01.974 --> 00:35:03.685
this is what you <i>want</i> for Turkey.

00:35:03.685 --> 00:35:08.559
-- "This is," being, US wanting
<i>this</i> government in Turkey. --

00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:10.027
Since they went to Plan B,

00:35:10.027 --> 00:35:11.275
that was <i>always</i> the plan.

00:35:11.275 --> 00:35:13.573
It's like, "We want this so-called"

00:35:13.573 --> 00:35:16.421
"'moderate Islamic' government there."

00:35:16.461 --> 00:35:21.600
Now, after Çatlı's death,

00:35:21.600 --> 00:35:23.159
when we completely...

00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.317
the Gladio went to Plan B mode
for Central Asia/Caucasus

00:35:26.317 --> 00:35:27.165
-- via Islam.

00:35:27.165 --> 00:35:28.719
And these Islamic factions,

00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.543
they already had a candidate
in mind, a leader.

00:35:32.763 --> 00:35:36.577
And this man was this preacher,

00:35:36.577 --> 00:35:40.331
this symbol of fanatic Islam in Turkey.

00:35:40.331 --> 00:35:42.507
Now, they no longer call them fanatic.

00:35:42.507 --> 00:35:44.248
Because he's supported by the US,

00:35:44.248 --> 00:35:46.489
we call him a "moderate" Islamist.

00:35:46.689 --> 00:35:49.639
And his name is Fethullah Gülen.

00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:52.417
Now, Fethullah Gülen was preaching

00:35:52.417 --> 00:35:55.015
in Turkey during these 1990s

00:35:55.235 --> 00:35:56.975
against the secular government:

00:35:56.975 --> 00:36:01.722
"In Turkey, we need to have a
government that reflects, more, people's"

00:36:01.722 --> 00:36:05.989
"<i>value</i>: which is Islam. We have to go
back to our roots." It was a different

00:36:05.989 --> 00:36:08.605
form of ultranationalists:
ultranationalists were like,

00:36:08.605 --> 00:36:12.031
"We don't want to be part of the EU;
we want Turkish culture."

00:36:12.031 --> 00:36:14.515
"In fact, all these Central Asian
countries there:"

00:36:14.515 --> 00:36:16.455
"we want to get together with them,"

00:36:16.455 --> 00:36:17.695
"take over them,"

00:36:17.695 --> 00:36:20.336
"and make this great Turkic Republic."

00:36:20.336 --> 00:36:23.738
Now, this preacher Fethullah Gülen
said the <i>same thing</i>;

00:36:23.850 --> 00:36:26.713
but he didn't say "nation;"
he said "Islam..."

00:36:26.803 --> 00:36:29.361
-- but the <i>Turkish</i> way of Islam --

00:36:29.361 --> 00:36:31.634
together with Turkish language:

00:36:31.634 --> 00:36:32.733
"We need to go and get"

00:36:32.733 --> 00:36:35.179
"our other brothers in Central Asia,"

00:36:35.179 --> 00:36:37.425
"Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan,"

00:36:37.425 --> 00:36:38.921
"bring them together,"

00:36:39.011 --> 00:36:42.575
"and be one great <i>Islamic</i> Turkey."

00:36:42.575 --> 00:36:44.375
"-- Not fanatic, you know?"

00:36:44.375 --> 00:36:46.245
"Moderate, Turkish way of Islamic..."

00:36:46.245 --> 00:36:48.737
-- whatever is the
"Turkish way of Islamic."

00:36:49.207 --> 00:36:51.676
Now, the military regime in Turkey

00:36:51.676 --> 00:36:55.195
<i>hated</i> this guy, so he was wanted.
There were already some trials.

00:36:55.195 --> 00:36:56.944
They wanted to put him in jail, OK?

00:36:56.944 --> 00:36:58.769
He was going through all this period.

00:36:58.769 --> 00:37:01.957
<i>Accident happens:</i> and he's wanted.

00:37:01.957 --> 00:37:04.022
He's actually declared <i>criminal,</i>

00:37:04.022 --> 00:37:06.151
<i>terrorist,</i><i>anti-secularist</i>

00:37:06.151 --> 00:37:07.980
by the Turkish government.

00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:12.262
<i>Yet, mysteriously,</i> after Susurluk incident,

00:37:12.262 --> 00:37:13.824
this guy, Fethullah Gülen,

00:37:13.824 --> 00:37:15.828
- in a <i>private Gulfstream</i> --

00:37:15.828 --> 00:37:18.177
ends up in the United States of America;

00:37:18.177 --> 00:37:19.946
lands here in Washington, DC.

00:37:19.946 --> 00:37:22.512
Hah! Why the United States?

00:37:22.512 --> 00:37:24.891
"This is a great Turkic Republic,
Islamic..."

00:37:24.891 --> 00:37:26.920
why are you coming to US?

00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:29.182
He hasn't left the United States since.

00:37:29.182 --> 00:37:31.574
This is since 1997.

00:37:31.574 --> 00:37:34.687
First he was in Washington, DC area.

00:37:35.417 --> 00:37:37.702
They gave him a lavish house

00:37:37.702 --> 00:37:39.632
and let him set up his organization,

00:37:39.632 --> 00:37:40.972
"Islamic" organization.

00:37:40.972 --> 00:37:45.412
Currently, it's valued somewhere
above $20 billion dollars.

00:37:45.412 --> 00:37:48.264
It's the
<i>largest Islamic organization in the world,</i>

00:37:48.264 --> 00:37:50.735
headquartered in the United States. OK?

00:37:50.735 --> 00:37:54.252
And I'm gonna come back again -- if we
have time -- to this character.

00:37:54.252 --> 00:37:56.782
But he's here in Washington, DC area

00:37:56.782 --> 00:37:58.732
and Pennsylvania.

00:37:58.732 --> 00:38:01.521
Who is his next neighbor?

00:38:01.521 --> 00:38:03.640
His next neighbor... [laughs]

00:38:03.640 --> 00:38:05.531
This is... I'm laughing.

00:38:05.531 --> 00:38:08.164
It's because <i>nobody ever</i> touches
these issues:

00:38:08.164 --> 00:38:11.227
-- because they are told not to,
as far as mainstream media goes;

00:38:11.227 --> 00:38:13.459
as far as alternative media goes,
it's like,

00:38:13.459 --> 00:38:17.440
"Man, dude! This is so complicated!
I can't get into that."

00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.252
Next to him is this guy called
Yusuf Turani.

00:38:21.252 --> 00:38:23.276
Now, <i>this</i> is the guy

00:38:23.276 --> 00:38:26.020
who used to be in Xinjiang...

00:38:26.020 --> 00:38:28.546
-- Uyghuristan; Turkestan in China --

00:38:28.546 --> 00:38:31.293
<i>He</i> was taken out of there;

00:38:31.643 --> 00:38:33.910
he lived for a while in Turkey,

00:38:33.910 --> 00:38:36.589
then <i>he</i> was...
<i>he</i> came to the United States.

00:38:36.589 --> 00:38:38.172
<i>He</i> was given citizenship.

00:38:38.172 --> 00:38:40.825
And the State Department brought him,

00:38:41.155 --> 00:38:42.368
and they had a meeting

00:38:42.368 --> 00:38:44.421
-- and this is in 1997 --

00:38:44.421 --> 00:38:47.378
and they declared independent country

00:38:47.378 --> 00:38:48.545
of [East] Turkestan

00:38:48.655 --> 00:38:53.728
with the President of [East] Turkestan
<i>in absentia</i>.

00:38:53.728 --> 00:38:55.394
Like, <i>nobody</i> knows this, right?

00:38:55.394 --> 00:38:58.613
So you declare a country and a
President <i>in a meeting,</i>

00:38:58.613 --> 00:39:00.563
<i>at an oval table in the State Department.</i>

00:39:00.563 --> 00:39:03.389
We say, "We are declaring Xinjiang
[East] Turkestan;"

00:39:03.389 --> 00:39:04.875
"and here is the President."

00:39:04.875 --> 00:39:07.691
Now, he swears... his oath of office
is taken

00:39:07.691 --> 00:39:09.836
inside the building, in the
State Department,

00:39:09.836 --> 00:39:12.541
in Washington, DC, in 1997.

00:39:12.541 --> 00:39:16.028
Well, he's part of the same
Gladio Plan B network, OK?

00:39:16.028 --> 00:39:17.027
So through him...

00:39:17.027 --> 00:39:22.206
-- because he's the leader <i>in absentia,</i>
president <i>in absentia</i> of this country that

00:39:22.206 --> 00:39:26.819
really doesn't exist except in the eyes of
the United States: [East] Turkestan --

00:39:26.819 --> 00:39:29.252
so, he was part of Plan B

00:39:29.252 --> 00:39:31.011
and still is part of Plan B,

00:39:31.011 --> 00:39:33.591
heading and carrying out operations;

00:39:33.591 --> 00:39:39.082
through his people and network [that]
goes down in Xinjiang Province of China

00:39:39.588 --> 00:39:42.212
Now, between 1997,

00:39:42.212 --> 00:39:44.808
after he moved to the United States,

00:39:44.808 --> 00:39:45.514
this guy...

00:39:45.514 --> 00:39:48.521
-- this preacher Fethullah Gülen, right? --

00:39:49.071 --> 00:39:53.931
opened up <i>350 mosques and madrasas</i>

00:39:53.931 --> 00:39:56.311
in Central Asia and Caucasus.

00:39:56.561 --> 00:40:00.682
<i>350</i>, James -- <i>in four years!</i>

00:40:00.962 --> 00:40:03.342
Nobody knows where the money's
coming from.

00:40:03.342 --> 00:40:08.098
He says, "These are donations
from good-hearted Turkish people."

00:40:08.098 --> 00:40:12.922
[laughs] That, it means...
-- let's take a look at it. If...

00:40:13.072 --> 00:40:16.766
We don't even get that much... we don't
even collect that much <i>tax</i> in Turkey!

00:40:16.766 --> 00:40:20.185
Even the government is unable, by force,
to collect that much tax.

00:40:20.185 --> 00:40:23.537
So, we've got these $20 billion
dollars of net worth.

00:40:23.537 --> 00:40:26.492
So, 350 mosques and <i>madrasas</i>.

00:40:26.492 --> 00:40:29.917
But because he preaches <i>modern</i> Islam

00:40:29.917 --> 00:40:31.699
-- you know, not the <i>fanatic</i> Islam --

00:40:31.819 --> 00:40:36.490
he advocates teaching English
to all his students,

00:40:36.490 --> 00:40:38.571
pupils in the <i>madrasas</i>.

00:40:38.571 --> 00:40:41.305
These are boys with Qu'ran,
and they go like...

00:40:41.315 --> 00:40:43.437
but they have to learn English.

00:40:43.437 --> 00:40:45.201
And for the <i>teaching</i> of English

00:40:45.201 --> 00:40:47.465
for his organizations that he owns,

00:40:47.465 --> 00:40:49.021
-- these mosques and <i>madrasas</i> --

00:40:49.021 --> 00:40:52.165
he needs to send English teachers

00:40:52.165 --> 00:40:54.116
to Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan

00:40:54.116 --> 00:40:55.727
and et cetera, right?

00:40:55.727 --> 00:40:57.731
But for some reason, hundreds of

00:40:57.731 --> 00:41:00.675
these English teachers that went
-- have been going --

00:41:00.675 --> 00:41:02.743
from the United States to these countries

00:41:02.743 --> 00:41:04.987
-- Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, et cetera --

00:41:04.987 --> 00:41:06.978
they all have <i>diplomatic passports!</i>

00:41:07.088 --> 00:41:08.672
Now, you taught English.

00:41:08.672 --> 00:41:11.099
Were you given diplomatic passports

00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:12.416
to teach English in Japan?

00:41:12.416 --> 00:41:14.423
(James): [laughs]
(Sibel): No? [laughs]

00:41:14.423 --> 00:41:17.515
This... again, people will say,
"Oh, this is some allegation." No!

00:41:17.515 --> 00:41:20.182
And this is why I have had
articles trans--...

00:41:20.182 --> 00:41:21.849
I have translated articles...

00:41:21.849 --> 00:41:25.848
-- mainstream media in Europe
and in Turkey --

00:41:25.938 --> 00:41:27.591
and <i>it's there!</i>

00:41:27.591 --> 00:41:29.144
It's already been proven.

00:41:29.144 --> 00:41:32.309
And they -- United States, the
State Department -- is not denying.

00:41:32.309 --> 00:41:37.012
They are saying, "Because those
countries are backwards and dangerous,

00:41:37.012 --> 00:41:38.729
"they need diplomatic protections."

00:41:38.729 --> 00:41:40.076
Well,<i>hah!</i>

00:41:40.076 --> 00:41:43.995
Anyhow, Plan B Gladio operations:

00:41:43.995 --> 00:41:46.233
These are... I'm giving the examples

00:41:46.233 --> 00:41:49.001
of what Plan B has been about.

00:41:49.001 --> 00:41:51.889
And this was when we...

00:41:51.889 --> 00:41:53.687
-- the United States, NATO --

00:41:53.687 --> 00:41:56.383
started <i>really</i> closely working

00:41:56.383 --> 00:41:58.215
with Bin Laden and Zawahiri.

00:41:58.215 --> 00:42:05.647
And... again, from what we knew
in the FBI

00:42:05.647 --> 00:42:08.355
with some of the trips that Zawahiri took,

00:42:08.645 --> 00:42:13.475
the meetings with the high-level Turkish
people <i>in Turkey</i>,

00:42:13.475 --> 00:42:15.474
several trips that Zawahiri took

00:42:15.474 --> 00:42:20.153
and went to Azerbaijan between
1997 and 2001.

00:42:20.153 --> 00:42:21.485
And while in Azerbaijan

00:42:21.485 --> 00:42:24.727
he met with a lot of US officials.

00:42:24.727 --> 00:42:26.215
It was sponsored,

00:42:26.215 --> 00:42:27.531
and it held the meetings

00:42:27.531 --> 00:42:30.607
in <i>Turkish Embassy</i> in Baku, Azerbaijan

00:42:30.777 --> 00:42:32.235
<i>with</i> Zawahiri

00:42:32.235 --> 00:42:34.613
<i>Prince Bandar</i> was there...

00:42:35.403 --> 00:42:37.304
A lot of the stuff that we got:

00:42:37.304 --> 00:42:39.322
I mean, Bin Laden seemed to be
number two:

00:42:39.322 --> 00:42:40.707
It was <i>all Zawahiri</i>.

00:42:40.707 --> 00:42:43.299
Believe me or not, it was
Ayman Zawahiri.

00:42:43.299 --> 00:42:45.752
It was <i>Zawahiri</i> that came to Turkey

00:42:45.752 --> 00:42:47.437
and then went from Turkey

00:42:47.437 --> 00:42:50.112
to Albania, to Kosovo...

00:42:50.112 --> 00:42:52.218
So, anyhow: we...

00:42:52.218 --> 00:42:57.166
-- United States, together with Turkey:
Turkish military, faction of it --

00:42:57.256 --> 00:43:01.334
started working very closely in
these countries

00:43:01.334 --> 00:43:03.340
with Ayman Zawahiri,

00:43:03.340 --> 00:43:04.807
Bin Laden,

00:43:04.807 --> 00:43:06.754
Prince Bandar.

00:43:06.754 --> 00:43:08.866
Lots of meetings took place,

00:43:08.866 --> 00:43:10.801
and a lot of it was coordinated

00:43:10.801 --> 00:43:13.776
via the Turkish proxy.

00:43:13.776 --> 00:43:16.019
Well, these Turkish proxies

00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:19.032
were being investigated by the FBI;

00:43:19.092 --> 00:43:21.966
-- not for <i>that</i> reason;
for <i>other</i> reasons --

00:43:21.966 --> 00:43:23.811
But inadvertently, we were getting

00:43:23.811 --> 00:43:26.816
this information through the
recordings of...

00:43:26.816 --> 00:43:30.327
whether it is, hypothetically speaking,

00:43:30.327 --> 00:43:33.598
Turkish military being wiretapped,

00:43:33.598 --> 00:43:36.471
or if it's a Turkish military attaché;

00:43:36.471 --> 00:43:38.082
diplomatic institutions;

00:43:38.082 --> 00:43:40.593
other various front organizations.

00:43:40.593 --> 00:43:43.100
So, let's say you were...

00:43:44.020 --> 00:43:47.107
via FISA, you were monitoring it

00:43:47.107 --> 00:43:48.564
-- "you" being the FBI --

00:43:48.564 --> 00:43:49.753
for... to see if there is

00:43:49.753 --> 00:43:52.052
some espionage activities, et cetera.

00:43:52.052 --> 00:43:53.672
But while you are monitoring them,

00:43:53.672 --> 00:43:55.351
you are coming with mother-lodes

00:43:55.351 --> 00:43:58.370
of information that has to do...
it's like, "Huh?" -- you know?

00:43:59.241 --> 00:44:00.772
And another interesting thing

00:44:00.772 --> 00:44:03.413
that I have to mention here is:

00:44:03.413 --> 00:44:06.116
-- <i>and nobody has ever
mentioned this in public</i> --

00:44:06.646 --> 00:44:10.841
Now, in the FBI, <i>every single country</i>

00:44:11.481 --> 00:44:14.922
-- every single country <i>except four</i> --

00:44:15.002 --> 00:44:19.753
were wiretapped, were monitored
under FISA.

00:44:19.753 --> 00:44:21.451
And by this I mean

00:44:21.451 --> 00:44:23.559
all their diplomatic arms.

00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.293
Let's say, if it's a German embassy

00:44:26.293 --> 00:44:27.959
and a German military attaché

00:44:27.959 --> 00:44:32.075
in Washington, DC -- under FISA

00:44:32.383 --> 00:44:34.794
Four countries... four countries...

00:44:34.904 --> 00:44:36.185
Except four countries:

00:44:36.185 --> 00:44:38.086
<i>Four countries</i> were exempt.

00:44:39.276 --> 00:44:41.067
They could <i>not</i> be monitored

00:44:41.067 --> 00:44:44.018
by the FBI <i>under FISA,</i>

00:44:44.018 --> 00:44:49.731
-- that could be used in espionage
and even criminal activities.

00:44:50.181 --> 00:44:51.445
You want to have a guess?

00:44:51.445 --> 00:44:53.605
(James): Can I take a stab at it? I'm...
(Sibel): What countries?

00:44:53.605 --> 00:44:55.756
(Sibel): A lot of people would say Israel.
It's not.

00:44:55.756 --> 00:44:57.355
(James): It's <i>not</i> Israel?

00:44:57.355 --> 00:44:59.774
(Sibel): OK, I'll help you...
(James): I guess Turkey is on that list...

00:44:59.774 --> 00:45:06.055
(Sibel): Yep. It was, until I went...
I started the official Turkish division

00:45:06.055 --> 00:45:07.865
(Sibel): for the FBI.
(James): Right

00:45:07.865 --> 00:45:11.002
Prior to my employment with the FBI,

00:45:11.262 --> 00:45:14.390
the Pentagon sent this
Lieutenant Colonel woman.

00:45:14.390 --> 00:45:16.367
She was a Turkish-American woman;

00:45:16.367 --> 00:45:19.074
NATO, Pentagon liaison.

00:45:19.074 --> 00:45:21.312
They would send her every two or
three months

00:45:21.312 --> 00:45:23.510
to come and randomly translate

00:45:23.510 --> 00:45:25.758
<i>certain</i> things for the FBI.

00:45:25.758 --> 00:45:28.156
Because certain things were
being recorded;

00:45:28.156 --> 00:45:30.424
but FBI couldn't have an official division,

00:45:30.424 --> 00:45:32.206
meaning they could never investigate

00:45:32.206 --> 00:45:33.988
criminally or for espionage.

00:45:34.088 --> 00:45:36.721
Turkey is one. All right: three more.

00:45:36.721 --> 00:45:39.850
Oh no. [laughs] Well...

00:45:39.850 --> 00:45:43.614
If it's going to play into what's happening
in Central Asia and the Caucasus,

00:45:43.614 --> 00:45:47.014
it would have to be, perhaps, Pakistan?

00:45:50.944 --> 00:45:54.714
No. We had a pretty good division
on Pakistan.

00:45:55.184 --> 00:45:57.288
Because, you see, this included...

00:45:57.288 --> 00:45:59.572
that's why I gave the example
of Germany:

00:45:59.572 --> 00:46:01.768
because this included
European countries, too.

00:46:01.768 --> 00:46:05.513
It was Turkey, Azerbaijan,
<i>United Kingdom</i>...

00:46:05.513 --> 00:46:10.035
-- you would think, "English! What?" --
<i>United Kingdom</i> is exempt,

00:46:10.138 --> 00:46:12.461
and <i>for a reason.</i> And
that reason... well...

00:46:12.461 --> 00:46:15.216
and the fourth one is <i>Belgium.</i>

00:46:15.216 --> 00:46:17.011
Nobody in the FBI is allowed...

00:46:17.011 --> 00:46:20.556
because there are too much
sensitive stuff going on with Belgium

00:46:20.786 --> 00:46:23.549
So these are the four.
No, Israel, we had a <i>huge</i> division;

00:46:23.549 --> 00:46:26.872
<i>and</i> FBI was <i>extremely frustrated.</i>

00:46:27.002 --> 00:46:29.739
They <i>hated</i> how investigations

00:46:29.739 --> 00:46:31.336
were being stopped, et cetera.

00:46:31.336 --> 00:46:33.765
But they... we had a huge division
there on Israel. [chuckles]

00:46:33.765 --> 00:46:35.562
And we had so much crap on Israel;

00:46:35.562 --> 00:46:37.149
they had <i>huge</i> amounts.

00:46:37.149 --> 00:46:41.239
Unfortunately, it could never be used,
but they never... they still collect.

00:46:41.249 --> 00:46:43.208
But no, not Israel. But it would be

00:46:43.208 --> 00:46:51.857
Turkey, Azerbaijan, and UK, and
Belgium. And again, as I said...

00:46:51.857 --> 00:46:54.026
-- the <i>artery</i>, at the beginning
of this interview --

00:46:54.026 --> 00:46:58.989
it was United States, Belgium,
England, Turkey.

00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:04.694
And... so, anyhow: Fethullah Gülen
still is here,

00:47:04.694 --> 00:47:09.250
he's still in Turkey [<i>sic</i>], he has this
huge castle built in Pennsylvania.

00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:11.452
We have... he has opened...

00:47:11.452 --> 00:47:12.480
(James): Sorry... I just...
(Sibel): Yes.

00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.603
Before we go on with that, I just want to
spell that out for the audience out there

00:47:15.603 --> 00:47:18.484
in case they don't know. Of course, one
of the implications of this:

00:47:18.484 --> 00:47:23.311
NATO's headquarters are in Brussels, in
Belgium. This is the head of NATO itself.

00:47:23.478 --> 00:47:25.884
So again, just to spell that out for people

00:47:25.884 --> 00:47:28.588
in case they didn't quite get
the implication of that.

00:47:29.873 --> 00:47:32.218
Correct, absolutely.

00:47:32.218 --> 00:47:34.592
And during the Susurluk
investigation, the...

00:47:34.592 --> 00:47:37.523
some of the documents that
became public:

00:47:37.523 --> 00:47:40.094
a special office in Pentagon

00:47:40.094 --> 00:47:42.575
that was responsible for all this Gladio

00:47:42.575 --> 00:47:48.096
-- false flag, false terrorism --
operations.

00:47:48.096 --> 00:47:49.466
It... the exact division

00:47:49.466 --> 00:47:51.046
was spelled out in documents.

00:47:51.046 --> 00:47:53.440
I mean, they had a major office.

00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:55.994
There is a major division
that oversees that.

00:47:56.164 --> 00:48:00.120
And as I said, they work with
these thugs and criminals.

00:48:00.120 --> 00:48:01.506
And the fact that

00:48:01.506 --> 00:48:03.532
-- as people write
and talk about it --

00:48:03.532 --> 00:48:07.400
it was not dismantled and just left there

00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.136
after the end of the Soviet Union,

00:48:10.136 --> 00:48:12.563
after the fall of the Soviet Union.

00:48:12.563 --> 00:48:16.353
It went... it went forward
with the operations,

00:48:16.353 --> 00:48:19.443
and in 1997 it went to Plan B.

00:48:19.443 --> 00:48:21.457
And this is why, again,

00:48:21.457 --> 00:48:24.141
[unintelligible] it's very interesting,

00:48:24.141 --> 00:48:27.876
because during this three,
four years' period,

00:48:27.876 --> 00:48:32.179
there were dozens and dozens
of joint operations

00:48:32.179 --> 00:48:35.436
with individuals like Ayman Zawahiri
and...

00:48:35.436 --> 00:48:37.318
-- meaning that, <i>it was never called</i>
<i>"al-Qaeda;"</i>

00:48:37.318 --> 00:48:40.619
It was "<i>mujahideen</i>, headed by..."

00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:43.707
And again, it's very interesting.

00:48:43.707 --> 00:48:48.900
When, lately, these leaders [of] these
regimes we topple in these countries,

00:48:48.913 --> 00:48:50.317
they are... they end up dead

00:48:50.317 --> 00:48:51.691
so they cannot talk,

00:48:51.691 --> 00:48:55.546
or they end up sick with heart attacks.
They can't talk, really, have trials.

00:48:55.557 --> 00:48:57.508
We saw it with Gaddafi.

00:48:57.508 --> 00:49:00.181
But again, one of the things
that took place

00:49:00.181 --> 00:49:04.121
-- and again, Turkey behind the scenes
played a major role together with US --

00:49:04.121 --> 00:49:08.862
was we in the United States
asked Mubarak

00:49:10.252 --> 00:49:13.601
to release some of the top
fundamental[ist]

00:49:13.601 --> 00:49:18.120
anti-regime figures <i>from prison</i>
in the 1990s.

00:49:18.120 --> 00:49:19.566
And they came to Turkey,

00:49:19.566 --> 00:49:21.992
and they became part of this movement.

00:49:21.992 --> 00:49:24.218
When I say "anti-regime," it would be...

00:49:24.218 --> 00:49:25.928
Mubarak had to release

00:49:25.928 --> 00:49:29.398
some fundamental[ist]s who were
anti-Mubarak!

00:49:29.398 --> 00:49:32.288
And... because the higher powers told him

00:49:32.288 --> 00:49:37.938
that, "We need these people in Turkey,
and we have tasks for them."

00:49:38.828 --> 00:49:40.297
You take a look and see

00:49:40.297 --> 00:49:42.013
how many times he's been released,

00:49:42.013 --> 00:49:44.149
people like Zawahiri.

00:49:46.569 --> 00:49:49.172
Anyhow, we had these,

00:49:49.172 --> 00:49:51.815
and then, <i>9/11 happened</i>.

00:49:51.815 --> 00:49:53.135
And this is when...

00:49:53.135 --> 00:49:56.605
I kept saying -- these organizations,
OK? -- these things come together.

00:49:56.613 --> 00:50:00.351
And people... people say, "Whoa! what
does it have to do with Turkey?"

00:50:00.351 --> 00:50:01.475
"Turkey's an ally!"

00:50:01.475 --> 00:50:06.863
Well, it would be <i>crazy</i> for someone
to come out and say,

00:50:07.093 --> 00:50:09.991
"You know, you look at NATO..." [chuckles]

00:50:09.991 --> 00:50:11.990
or, "A certain arm of NATO..."

00:50:11.990 --> 00:50:13.863
Nobody would listen to this person.

00:50:13.863 --> 00:50:15.096
Think about it!

00:50:15.096 --> 00:50:17.650
A President -- ex-President of Italy --

00:50:17.650 --> 00:50:19.194
can come out publicly

00:50:19.194 --> 00:50:21.258
and talk about Gladio,

00:50:21.258 --> 00:50:23.313
and talk about some of the operatives,

00:50:23.313 --> 00:50:25.169
and talk about 9/11,

00:50:25.169 --> 00:50:27.936
and it's not even mentioned!

00:50:28.356 --> 00:50:31.605
How could two or three agents from the
FBI...

00:50:31.605 --> 00:50:34.871
you get a couple of people in Pentagon...
if they were to come out...

00:50:34.905 --> 00:50:37.265
and they were to come out
and tell people...

00:50:37.265 --> 00:50:39.506
Let's say they are <i>fearless,</i> OK?

00:50:39.506 --> 00:50:41.596
They say, "Execute me, put me in jail."

00:50:41.596 --> 00:50:44.581
"I'm gonna tell the Americans
exactly what I know."

00:50:45.301 --> 00:50:48.038
People would say, "He's <i>crazy,</i>"
or, "She's <i>crazy.</i>"

00:50:48.348 --> 00:50:51.516
They...
-- Americans, a lot of people in Europe --

00:50:51.516 --> 00:50:56.220
they would not be willing to
<i>digest</i> information -- to them -- that big.

00:50:56.220 --> 00:50:59.462
But the answer, yet, is <i>so simple.</i>

00:51:00.702 --> 00:51:02.845
Well, let's spell this out for people.

00:51:02.845 --> 00:51:06.620
Because you've talked about the
Plan A of Gladio

00:51:06.620 --> 00:51:10.107
-- which is more, I think, what people
understand Gladio to have been,

00:51:10.107 --> 00:51:12.144
talking about the ultranationalists --

00:51:12.144 --> 00:51:14.805
But moving into the Plan B era

00:51:14.805 --> 00:51:18.677
with the Islamization of the Central Asia
and Caucasus,

00:51:18.677 --> 00:51:20.603
and working with people like Zawahiri:

00:51:20.603 --> 00:51:22.922
I guess the question a lot of
people have is,

00:51:22.922 --> 00:51:24.321
how <i>is</i> this Gladio?

00:51:24.321 --> 00:51:25.858
Gladio was the stay-behind

00:51:25.858 --> 00:51:27.525
to counter the Soviet threat.

00:51:27.525 --> 00:51:28.931
So the idea is, well,

00:51:28.931 --> 00:51:30.638
after the Soviet threat is gone,

00:51:30.638 --> 00:51:32.275
what is Gladio's purpose?

00:51:32.275 --> 00:51:34.807
So I guess the question is,
well, <i>what is</i> Plan B?

00:51:34.807 --> 00:51:37.762
What is it actually attempting to achieve?
I think we've gotten

00:51:37.762 --> 00:51:40.598
some indication with that: for example,
the Azerbaijani example,

00:51:40.598 --> 00:51:43.631
trying to move the Azerbaijani
government into the US stable.

00:51:43.631 --> 00:51:46.685
But are there other examples?
How is this actually being used?

00:51:46.685 --> 00:51:49.907
And what is its purpose at this point?

00:51:52.457 --> 00:51:54.589
OK, <i>First,</i> the fact that

00:51:54.589 --> 00:51:56.726
even though the term
"stay behind" applies,

00:51:56.726 --> 00:51:59.202
they are ex--... they're very <i>proactive.</i>

00:51:59.202 --> 00:52:01.928
This is... think about this:

00:52:01.928 --> 00:52:05.374
A lot of people say, "OK, Cold War, then,
was over, in 1991."

00:52:05.374 --> 00:52:07.478
Cold War was <i>never over.</i>

00:52:07.478 --> 00:52:09.352
It is not... it <i>still continues.</i>

00:52:09.672 --> 00:52:15.058
The<i>war over resources</i> continues.

00:52:15.058 --> 00:52:19.163
Not only that it did <i>not</i> end in 1990,

00:52:19.163 --> 00:52:22.188
it actually <i>accelerated</i>, OK?

00:52:22.188 --> 00:52:25.594
A lot of emphasis, attention today
is on Middle East.

00:52:25.594 --> 00:52:28.360
Why? Middle East oil, right?

00:52:28.780 --> 00:52:31.068
In less than a couple of decades,

00:52:31.068 --> 00:52:33.326
the next Middle East we're
gonna be seeing

00:52:33.326 --> 00:52:35.006
is going to be Central Asia.

00:52:35.006 --> 00:52:37.510
<i>Much</i> worse, <i>much</i> bloodier,

00:52:37.510 --> 00:52:40.914
with <i>much</i> worse ethnic divisions.

00:52:41.514 --> 00:52:44.539
Divisiveness and conflicts there.

00:52:44.539 --> 00:52:47.496
Because <i>the amount of
natural resources</i> they have

00:52:47.496 --> 00:52:51.073
-- whether it's in oil, or gas,
or minerals --

00:52:51.363 --> 00:52:55.345
it's... because it's towards <i>the end</i> of it,
what we see in Middle East.

00:52:55.347 --> 00:52:56.919
they are almost done with...

00:52:56.919 --> 00:52:59.665
OK: you still have the unexplored regions

00:52:59.665 --> 00:53:00.941
within the Caspian Basin;

00:53:00.941 --> 00:53:02.897
you still have Iran, yeah.

00:53:02.897 --> 00:53:05.265
But the <i>ultimate prize</i>

00:53:05.265 --> 00:53:06.543
has <i>always</i> been

00:53:06.543 --> 00:53:08.071
Central Asia and Caucasus.

00:53:08.221 --> 00:53:10.069
If you go back to Brzezinski,

00:53:10.139 --> 00:53:12.659
if you go back to the old doctrine,

00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:15.320
you would see that
it's that <i>Eurasia</i>,

00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.271
It's <i>not</i>... Middle East is the <i>past</i>.

00:53:17.271 --> 00:53:19.392
It's <i>over</i>: it's the <i>finished</i> chapter.

00:53:19.392 --> 00:53:21.583
A lot... they <i>like</i> what they are seeing:

00:53:21.583 --> 00:53:24.322
people -- we -- are stuck by watching,

00:53:24.322 --> 00:53:25.561
observing Middle East,

00:53:25.561 --> 00:53:28.940
and <i>nobody's</i> paying attention
what is happening,

00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:31.335
how the countries are being set up

00:53:31.335 --> 00:53:33.330
in Central Asia and Caucasus.

00:53:33.330 --> 00:53:35.146
How we are already setting up

00:53:35.146 --> 00:53:37.752
the religious factions there.

00:53:37.752 --> 00:53:38.832
How we are setting up

00:53:38.832 --> 00:53:40.662
the ethnic conflicts there.

00:53:40.662 --> 00:53:45.074
You need to do this <i>pre-preparation</i>

00:53:45.344 --> 00:53:49.446
for the coming <i>assault</i>
that's <i>going for it.</i>

00:53:49.446 --> 00:53:52.099
It <i>doesn't happen</i> overnight, you know?

00:53:52.099 --> 00:53:53.638
People are looking... Mubarak!

00:53:53.638 --> 00:53:56.297
I remember, 1980, 1981:

00:53:56.297 --> 00:53:59.840
I remember how it was discussed
in Iran, in Turkey,

00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.063
of who killed Anwar Sadat?

00:54:02.393 --> 00:54:05.618
It was... the <i>biggest</i> thing was,
it was <i>Mubarak.</i>

00:54:05.618 --> 00:54:08.622
Who wanted Mubarak to implement that?

00:54:08.622 --> 00:54:10.856
It was <i>always</i>the United States.

00:54:10.856 --> 00:54:12.421
So... but today it's like,

00:54:12.421 --> 00:54:15.636
"Oh yeah, this big bad guy Mubarak,
he's in jail."

00:54:15.636 --> 00:54:18.311
It's... <i>they don't know the context.</i>

00:54:18.531 --> 00:54:21.585
They are currently -- people --
missing the context

00:54:21.585 --> 00:54:22.869
of <i>what</i> we are doing.

00:54:22.869 --> 00:54:26.324
<i>9/11 happens,</i> OK? <i>9/11 happens.</i>

00:54:26.324 --> 00:54:30.151
We say -- our government says --
"<i>Our partners</i> did it!"

00:54:30.151 --> 00:54:33.250
"While we were working with them,
carrying [out] joint operations"

00:54:33.250 --> 00:54:36.019
"all over the place in Central Asia
and Caucasus,"

00:54:36.098 --> 00:54:39.067
"they <i>turned around</i> and
they <i>did this to us!</i>"

00:54:39.397 --> 00:54:43.147
It's... as I said: I said it
seems complicated,

00:54:43.147 --> 00:54:47.337
it's <i>too big</i> to digest;
yet it's extremely simple.

00:54:47.337 --> 00:54:49.112
And simplicity doesn't matter:

00:54:49.112 --> 00:54:51.128
p eople <i>don't want</i> to digest,

00:54:51.128 --> 00:54:52.694
no matter <i>how simple</i> it is.

00:54:52.694 --> 00:54:54.149
Our partners...

00:54:54.149 --> 00:54:57.059
-- look, we are partnering up in Syria:
it's <i>nothing</i> --

00:54:57.059 --> 00:54:59.476
I'm talking about <i>real</i> partnership.

00:54:59.476 --> 00:55:02.052
Operations carried out over resources,

00:55:02.052 --> 00:55:05.010
trying to get these ex-Soviet blocs
on <i>our</i> side

00:55:05.010 --> 00:55:06.643
so they won't be on <i>Russia's</i> side.

00:55:06.643 --> 00:55:08.754
So they won't be on <i>China's</i> side.

00:55:08.754 --> 00:55:10.855
Because, hey: "Communist China."

00:55:10.855 --> 00:55:15.577
"Muslims should side with America,
because Islam works in our benefit."

00:55:15.577 --> 00:55:20.519
"What do we have to get these people
through our proxy, Turkish NATO?"

00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:21.259
<i>Islam!</i>

00:55:21.259 --> 00:55:23.672
As long as they become fanatics,

00:55:23.672 --> 00:55:27.325
as long as they're attached to Islam,
they're gonna say <i>pooh-pooh</i>

00:55:27.325 --> 00:55:29.607
to China and Russia.
They're gonna side with us.

00:55:29.747 --> 00:55:31.709
<i>What happened</i> in Afghanistan?

00:55:31.709 --> 00:55:34.111
It was <i>Islam</i>. It's <i>always</i> been.

00:55:34.111 --> 00:55:40.315
It's been the <i>oldest trick</i> for the UK.
It's been the <i>number one big game:</i>

00:55:40.329 --> 00:55:42.744
it's played in the name of <i>religion.</i>

00:55:42.744 --> 00:55:45.199
<i>You use Islam to get what you want!</i>

00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:49.105
And I'm just amazed. I'm opening
newspapers...

00:55:49.105 --> 00:55:51.305
I don't <i>actually</i> open newspapers
anymore.

00:55:51.305 --> 00:55:54.326
I open them on my computer.
But I still do this motion.

00:55:54.326 --> 00:55:56.110
I don't <i>buy</i> newspapers;

00:55:56.110 --> 00:55:58.198
but, count: how many times

00:55:58.198 --> 00:56:00.516
do you see the word "Islam"
and "Islamists?"

00:56:00.516 --> 00:56:03.244
"Islamists carried out this;
Islamists did that;"

00:56:03.244 --> 00:56:05.930
"Islamists... and this Islamist faction;
Islamists..."

00:56:06.830 --> 00:56:10.746
If you look at some of the conflicts
with India and Pakistan, you don't see,

00:56:10.746 --> 00:56:13.886
"Buddhists! Buddhists did that!" "The
Buddhists..." You don't see,

00:56:13.886 --> 00:56:18.348
"Buddhists did this." It's a particular
group; but it's Islamists!

00:56:18.548 --> 00:56:21.280
(James): Absolutely right.
(Sibel): So... but these Islamists...

00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.259
I mean, we see the absolute
Islamization of the area

00:56:24.259 --> 00:56:26.347
and the 350 <i>madrasas</i>

00:56:26.347 --> 00:56:28.912
that Gülen has put into that region.

00:56:28.912 --> 00:56:32.681
And with the English teachers being
sent over with diplomatic passports,

00:56:32.681 --> 00:56:35.380
it all lines up exactly as you're saying.

00:56:35.380 --> 00:56:37.499
But there's another huge piece
of this puzzle

00:56:37.499 --> 00:56:40.596
that we haven't even <i>touched on</i> yet,
and that's the drug-running:

00:56:40.596 --> 00:56:44.461
which, of course, is absolutely central
to a lot of the geostrategy of the region.

00:56:44.461 --> 00:56:46.840
And of course, Turkey:
absolutely important

00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:49.367
in terms of smuggling
for the heroin routes.

00:56:49.367 --> 00:56:51.870
A <i>lot of money</i> rests on this.

00:56:51.870 --> 00:56:55.390
This is such a huge backbone of the
international economy. And of course,

00:56:55.390 --> 00:56:58.532
that's one of the things that we're not
allowed to ever talk about

00:56:58.532 --> 00:57:00.660
or broach in the mainstream media,

00:57:00.660 --> 00:57:03.480
because it <i>is</i> so central
to what's happening there.

00:57:03.580 --> 00:57:07.616
So how does this fit in? Who are the
main players, and where do they fit

00:57:07.616 --> 00:57:11.072
into this network that's been created?

00:57:14.442 --> 00:57:16.512
Sure. First of all,

00:57:16.512 --> 00:57:19.973
I have to first say: I know
the information I know

00:57:19.973 --> 00:57:24.313
both through the work I did during a
short period of time with the FBI

00:57:24.313 --> 00:57:27.511
that involved the top Turkish operators
and movements of heroin

00:57:27.511 --> 00:57:31.773
-- and this is before 9/11 until
a few months after 9/11 --

00:57:31.983 --> 00:57:33.520
but also my own research;

00:57:33.520 --> 00:57:36.177
but also my own contacts and
sources in Turkey.

00:57:36.177 --> 00:57:40.405
But as far as my work during my work
with the FBI goes

00:57:40.405 --> 00:57:44.899
and the information that <i>by default</i> we
gathered, because some of these

00:57:44.899 --> 00:57:49.179
Turkish actors under investigations who
were being monitored,

00:57:49.179 --> 00:57:52.805
they were the major players with
bringing in heroin.

00:57:52.805 --> 00:57:55.250
And it was, again, done
-- believe me or not --

00:57:55.250 --> 00:58:00.149
it's like, "OK, Turkey, Eastern Europe:"
Nobody ever mentions the role

00:58:00.149 --> 00:58:06.035
and the strategic importance of <i>Brussels!</i>
Brussels is <i>extremely</i> important in the

00:58:06.035 --> 00:58:11.177
transportation and in the distribution of
heroin, but nobody would

00:58:11.177 --> 00:58:15.298
want to think about... [scoffs] "Brussels?
European country? <i>Belgium?"</i>

00:58:15.298 --> 00:58:16.259
"It just doesn't fit."

00:58:16.259 --> 00:58:19.500
"We need to find countries
like Pakistan and Turkey:"

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:21.993
"Yeah, <i>Midnight Express</i>!
<i>That</i> makes sense."

00:58:21.993 --> 00:58:26.212
" But UK? Belgium? That's not...
<i>that</i> doesn't."

00:58:26.212 --> 00:58:29.742
But one false information that
is being put [out]

00:58:29.742 --> 00:58:31.367
-- that I have to correct here --

00:58:31.367 --> 00:58:37.806
by people is: "Taliban <i>ended</i> the opium
production, the poppies production,"

00:58:37.806 --> 00:58:40.526
and that <i>after 9/11 it started.</i>

00:58:40.526 --> 00:58:43.324
Of course, after 9/11 it went from
$5 billion worth,

00:58:43.324 --> 00:58:46.924
or $1 billion dollar worth, to $50,
$100 billion:

00:58:46.924 --> 00:58:48.102
increased <i>tremendously.</i>

00:58:48.102 --> 00:58:51.180
But they <i>never ceased producing.</i>

00:58:51.180 --> 00:58:53.054
And I know this first-hand;

00:58:53.054 --> 00:58:55.958
and I know this through my work
with the FBI.

00:58:55.958 --> 00:58:58.092
It is a known thing: they still did.

00:58:58.092 --> 00:59:00.500
It was <i>nothing</i> like to this extent,

00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:02.818
to the scale that it is <i>today,</i>

00:59:02.818 --> 00:59:05.830
the production of the opium and heroin;

00:59:06.060 --> 00:59:07.442
but it <i>was there.</i>

00:59:07.442 --> 00:59:10.335
<i>However,</i> until 9/11,

00:59:11.835 --> 00:59:13.768
the majority of that operation

00:59:13.768 --> 00:59:16.593
-- and again, it was nothing compared
to what it is today --

00:59:16.753 --> 00:59:20.953
the biggest share was actually
carried out...

00:59:20.953 --> 00:59:23.494
-- both operations, taking it
to the labs --

00:59:23.494 --> 00:59:25.205
by the <i>Russians.</i>

00:59:25.415 --> 00:59:27.609
If I were to throw a number,

00:59:27.609 --> 00:59:30.526
I would say it was... 70 to 80 percent

00:59:30.526 --> 00:59:33.969
was under Russian control in 1990s.

00:59:33.969 --> 00:59:35.764
It was Russian <i>mafiya,</i>

00:59:35.764 --> 00:59:37.879
certain Russian military elements,

00:59:37.879 --> 00:59:39.965
certain Russian intelligence elements.

00:59:39.965 --> 00:59:44.025
they created, they had a lot of network
<i>put in place,</i>

00:59:44.025 --> 00:59:46.545
even after they got out of Afghanistan,

00:59:46.545 --> 00:59:47.959
and they continued that.

00:59:47.959 --> 00:59:51.003
And something around...
-- again, don't quote me on the number --

00:59:51.003 --> 00:59:54.848
if I were to throw a number, I would say
somewhere around 20 percent

00:59:54.848 --> 01:00:02.110
was being smuggled through porous
borders region into Iran,

01:00:02.110 --> 01:00:03.861
from Iran into Turkey,

01:00:03.861 --> 01:00:05.732
some of them through Turkey...

01:00:05.732 --> 01:00:07.862
Kurdish couriers into Iraq,

01:00:07.862 --> 01:00:09.318
from Iraq to Turkey

01:00:09.318 --> 01:00:11.074
where the lab processed it.

01:00:11.074 --> 01:00:13.115
But, it was 20 to 80.

01:00:13.115 --> 01:00:18.896
Now, that turned <i>completely opposite</i>
after 9/11.

01:00:19.306 --> 01:00:23.298
We, the West, via Turkey...

01:00:23.298 --> 01:00:25.682
-- Albanians and Turks --

01:00:25.912 --> 01:00:27.237
the West became...

01:00:27.237 --> 01:00:30.869
-- and this is the number one actor at
the top, being NATO --

01:00:31.449 --> 01:00:33.295
the biggest shareholder,

01:00:33.295 --> 01:00:35.511
the top people in this operation

01:00:35.511 --> 01:00:37.001
that now you are seeing

01:00:37.001 --> 01:00:39.601
$50, $100, $500 billion: pick your number.

01:00:39.771 --> 01:00:42.161
And the Russians' share decreased,
and decreased,

01:00:42.161 --> 01:00:45.521
and decreased, and decreased
-- to almost nothing.

01:00:45.521 --> 01:00:47.036
I mean, they still have some,

01:00:47.036 --> 01:00:49.071
there are some Russian...
but it's <i>nothing.</i>

01:00:49.161 --> 01:00:51.866
And that's why, again, this was...

01:00:52.096 --> 01:00:56.013
this is <i>fact,</i>
this is <i>solid data</i> pouring in:

01:00:56.013 --> 01:00:59.538
who were the actors, how much of the
share it was, and how much it is now.

01:00:59.538 --> 01:01:02.396
This is why I wonder sometimes why
Russia screams and says,

01:01:02.396 --> 01:01:05.723
"All this heroin comes into Russia, and
we want to be part of this"

01:01:05.723 --> 01:01:10.057
"eradication program that has increased
the poppy production into..."

01:01:10.057 --> 01:01:14.071
whatever, $50 billion. I guess
we call it, now, "eradication,"

01:01:14.071 --> 01:01:17.666
increasing the production.
I'm like, "maybe it's a code language!"

01:01:17.666 --> 01:01:19.828
Russia says, "We want <i>in</i> on this!"

01:01:20.088 --> 01:01:22.614
And maybe to pacify Russia we say,

01:01:22.614 --> 01:01:26.071
"Yeah, we are eradicating, and the
production is going up."

01:01:26.078 --> 01:01:28.419
"Come, we'll give you another 10 percent."

01:01:28.419 --> 01:01:29.530
"Help us 'eradicate.'"

01:01:29.530 --> 01:01:32.191
In quotes: "eradicate" poppies.

01:01:32.281 --> 01:01:37.488
So, that's for the heroin portion of it.

01:01:37.488 --> 01:01:39.230
And while we are at this,

01:01:39.230 --> 01:01:40.852
on this topic of Russia...

01:01:40.852 --> 01:01:43.896
-- and I want to mention this,
and I find this <i>mind-boggling</i> --

01:01:44.366 --> 01:01:46.622
the... our operations

01:01:46.622 --> 01:01:51.905
-- Gladio operations; US, NATO via
these Turkish paramilitary groups...

01:01:51.905 --> 01:01:54.833
and later via the Islamist groups --

01:01:54.833 --> 01:01:56.938
a lot of it had to do with

01:01:56.938 --> 01:01:58.763
what we were doing with the Chechens

01:01:58.763 --> 01:02:00.729
and the Chechen movement
in the Chechnya

01:02:00.729 --> 01:02:03.129
carrying out terror attacks in Russia.

01:02:03.129 --> 01:02:05.456
A lot of it within Russian borders.

01:02:05.676 --> 01:02:09.840
Now... then we're going
to get into Ergenekon.

01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.826
And I don't know how much
time we have;

01:02:11.826 --> 01:02:14.282
it may be part two for this interview.

01:02:14.672 --> 01:02:18.265
Because a lot of these former

01:02:18.265 --> 01:02:20.368
ultranationalist fascist militaries

01:02:20.368 --> 01:02:22.697
who used to fight Russia

01:02:22.697 --> 01:02:26.116
or counter the Soviets on Gladio's side,

01:02:26.196 --> 01:02:29.338
after they were, basically, thrown out,

01:02:29.668 --> 01:02:31.590
started being assassinated.

01:02:31.780 --> 01:02:35.420
They were thrown out by NATO
and they <i>lost their protection</i>;

01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:39.352
and these are the military fascists
in Turkey. The ones who <i>survived</i>,

01:02:39.352 --> 01:02:43.029
they had to get themselves to Russia.
And they defected to Russia.

01:02:43.029 --> 01:02:45.966
They went and they sought political
asylums. You will see

01:02:45.966 --> 01:02:51.564
<i>several Turkish generals</i> who've been
in Russia in the past three or four years.

01:02:51.576 --> 01:02:54.183
With all the trials against the
Turkish generals,

01:02:54.183 --> 01:02:56.470
Ergenekon in Turkey,

01:02:56.470 --> 01:02:58.108
and with some of these people

01:02:58.108 --> 01:03:00.406
being assassinated mysteriously,

01:03:00.406 --> 01:03:02.575
including some of the
paramilitary groups.

01:03:02.575 --> 01:03:06.493
In order to defect, in order to get the
asylum; in order to settle

01:03:06.493 --> 01:03:08.829
and get the Russian
government's protection,

01:03:08.829 --> 01:03:10.386
of course, they have to give

01:03:10.386 --> 01:03:11.733
-- I'm sure, I'm <i>certain</i> --

01:03:11.733 --> 01:03:13.563
a lot of <i>information</i>

01:03:13.563 --> 01:03:21.753
to the Russian government and to FSB.
And even in late 1990s, as they were

01:03:21.753 --> 01:03:25.625
-- the Russian forces there --
as they were capturing and killing

01:03:25.625 --> 01:03:28.629
some of these terrorists
-- <i>their</i> terrorists --

01:03:28.629 --> 01:03:30.369
they were confiscating passports

01:03:30.369 --> 01:03:32.508
-- diplomatic passports, Turkish
passports --

01:03:32.508 --> 01:03:35.787
from so-called "Chechens"
who'd either received training in Turkey

01:03:35.787 --> 01:03:39.609
or actually these were part of the
Turkish military/paramilitary groups

01:03:39.609 --> 01:03:44.368
fighting and leading Chechens inside
Russia to carry out terror attacks.

01:03:44.477 --> 01:03:46.174
And the mystery remains that:

01:03:46.174 --> 01:03:51.111
why Russia has remained so quiet
and silent on this?

01:03:51.251 --> 01:03:55.953
And what is the game there? Or is this
actually a game-changer? I don't know.

01:03:55.957 --> 01:03:59.985
(James): And that's an extremely
important point in all of this
(Sibel): I don't know the answer.

01:03:59.985 --> 01:04:03.599
Because this goes right into this
geostrategy surrounding the greater

01:04:03.599 --> 01:04:06.945
conflict that's going on right now.
This, of course, touches on China

01:04:06.945 --> 01:04:09.575
-- with [East] Turkestan, or Xinjiang --

01:04:09.575 --> 01:04:14.424
and Russia and its share in the heroin
trade. This goes right to the heart

01:04:14.424 --> 01:04:19.610
of that greater geopolitical conflict we
see shaping up. So I certainly hope

01:04:19.610 --> 01:04:23.326
that we <i>can</i> get a second part of this
interview, because this is absolutely,

01:04:23.326 --> 01:04:27.381
<i>truly</i> fascinating stuff; but we've already
been talking for an hour, and we've laid

01:04:27.381 --> 01:04:31.296
<i>a lot</i> of information out on the table
already today. So perhaps we <i>can</i> have

01:04:31.296 --> 01:04:34.142
a second part to this interview; and if
there are listeners out there

01:04:34.142 --> 01:04:36.761
with some questions or comments
that they want to make,

01:04:36.761 --> 01:04:40.167
they can send that to me, and
I will bring that

01:04:40.167 --> 01:04:43.747
into our second conversation on this.
But for now, thinking about

01:04:43.747 --> 01:04:47.292
what we've talked about so far:
-- we've covered, again, a lot of ground --

01:04:47.292 --> 01:04:49.737
Is there anything you'd like to say
to sort of wrap up

01:04:49.737 --> 01:04:52.383
what we've talked about today,
or the situation...

01:04:52.383 --> 01:04:53.087
Yes

01:04:53.087 --> 01:04:56.334
...that some of these actors are in today,
like Fethullah Gülen?

01:04:58.311 --> 01:05:01.400
Yeah. One last thing I have...
and I'm gonna get into those,

01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:03.690
-- because they get to be
really deep topics --

01:05:03.690 --> 01:05:08.515
on our next... during our next interviews.
But I have been asked by some sources,

01:05:08.515 --> 01:05:12.305
some people, to go to Russia to meet
with some of these people

01:05:12.595 --> 01:05:14.977
And I know that there are people

01:05:14.977 --> 01:05:18.620
-- both in Turkey, but also in Russia --

01:05:18.740 --> 01:05:22.423
who have some <i>very important documents,</i>

01:05:22.423 --> 01:05:25.325
and they have some very
important information

01:05:25.325 --> 01:05:28.146
that they have tried to get to me
in person, but they can't.

01:05:28.146 --> 01:05:30.539
Now I know, hopefully,

01:05:30.939 --> 01:05:33.471
that some of this will get to them,

01:05:33.471 --> 01:05:35.577
and it would be good for them to know

01:05:35.577 --> 01:05:36.753
that there are people,

01:05:36.753 --> 01:05:39.330
there are journalists <i>outside</i>
the United States,

01:05:39.410 --> 01:05:41.311
outside me that they can trust

01:05:41.311 --> 01:05:43.623
and they can contact.
They can be interviewed.

01:05:43.623 --> 01:05:46.737
If they don't wish to be interviewed,
they can send information.

01:05:46.961 --> 01:05:51.537
There are ways. You can do it through
<i>encrypted</i> way

01:05:51.537 --> 01:05:53.782
-- I don't know how much you can
trust that --

01:05:53.782 --> 01:05:59.942
but... or documents can come
through "6-7-7-7-8-10 STOP"

01:05:59.942 --> 01:06:04.467
But I want them to know that it is good
to have other sources

01:06:04.467 --> 01:06:07.129
outside the US who are
tackling these issues;

01:06:07.129 --> 01:06:09.502
and they can reach out

01:06:09.502 --> 01:06:12.485
to journalists like James Corbett

01:06:12.485 --> 01:06:15.968
-- and knowing that this information
would get out.

01:06:16.508 --> 01:06:19.638
And again, those people in Russia:

01:06:19.638 --> 01:06:21.658
I hope some of you are watching this,

01:06:21.658 --> 01:06:25.157
and I hope some of you will help us

01:06:25.157 --> 01:06:31.006
to peel off more layers of this operation.

01:06:31.006 --> 01:06:34.282
Absolutely. Well, again, we've talked
about so much already today,

01:06:34.282 --> 01:06:37.088
and there's a lot of information
for people to digest.

01:06:37.088 --> 01:06:39.602
So I will include in the links,

01:06:39.602 --> 01:06:41.595
in the show notes for this interview,

01:06:41.595 --> 01:06:45.508
some of the links to some of the articles
that you've written on <i>Boiling Frogs Post</i>

01:06:45.508 --> 01:06:49.107
surrounding some of these topics, and
some of the other articles that other

01:06:49.107 --> 01:06:52.751
people have written, so that people can
start delving into this in a little bit more,

01:06:52.751 --> 01:06:56.891
deeper detail. And I will be putting out
a podcast episode that will encapsulate

01:06:56.891 --> 01:06:58.990
at least some of what we've
talked about today

01:06:58.990 --> 01:07:01.419
-- and with Tom Secker last week --

01:07:01.419 --> 01:07:03.818
this Friday. So people can look
forward to that.

01:07:03.818 --> 01:07:06.811
On that note, I think we will wrap this
conversation up here.

01:07:06.811 --> 01:07:09.367
Again, we have been talking for
quite a while already.

01:07:09.367 --> 01:07:12.475
So Sibel, thank you so much
for laying this out for us today,

01:07:12.475 --> 01:07:17.334
and I'm very much looking forward
to our next conversation.

01:07:19.174 --> 01:07:21.219
And thank you for tackling this,

01:07:21.219 --> 01:07:24.144
this topic, which is <i>extremely important.</i>

01:07:24.284 --> 01:07:27.592
In my prelude, I called it the <i>"master key"</i>

01:07:27.592 --> 01:07:30.760
to understanding a lot of things,
including 9/11.

01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:33.097
and I'm glad you're holding that key.

01:07:33.097 --> 01:07:34.556
Thank you.

01:07:34.556 --> 01:07:35.316
Thank <i>you.</i>

01:07:35.316 --> 01:07:37.186
♪ (Music) ♪

01:07:37.186 --> 01:07:38.419
(James [voice-over]): This video is
brought to you

01:07:38.419 --> 01:07:41.041
by the subscribers of
BoilingFrogsPost.com.

01:07:41.041 --> 01:07:42.949
For more information on this
and other topics,

01:07:42.949 --> 01:07:44.950
please go to BoilingFrogsPost.com.

01:07:44.950 --> 01:07:47.304
For more information and commentary
from James Corbett,

01:07:47.304 --> 01:07:49.336
please go to CorbettReport.com.

01:07:49.376 --> 01:07:51.000
[Subtitles by "Adjuvant"]