Expanse Dev Team AMA (in Jumbucks Slack)

Expanse Dev Team AMA, courtesy of Slack.getjumbucks.com. #Jumbucks $JBS (10.28.15)

10:01 <+aaltc> ama officially on??
10:01 <+aaltc> @julian: @sicarious
10:02 <+sicarious> boom, let's go!
10:02 <+sicarious> @defaced: if you want to start with a quick introduction to the coin and project, that'd be great. for those of us new to you and Expanse
10:02 <+defaced> Hello, my name is Christopher Franko, im a software engineer from eastern north carolina, ive worked on everything from marketplaces, to social networks, to mobile apps, marketing automation tools and as you all know crypto currencies. AMA
10:03 <+cryptoclub> Hi, my name is James Clayton, I have been involved in cryptos for a few years now, and help out with social media and so on.
10:04 <+cryptoclub> Horizon was my other project
10:04 <+aaltc> was?
10:04 <+cryptoclub> well, still an advisor, helping out
10:04 <+danconway> I am Dan Conway, a software engineer who has been involved in several crypto and blockchain projects, and am co-developer of the expanse project.
10:04 <+sicarious> oh nice, we have 3 of you today.  represent!
10:04 <+cryptoclub>
10:05 <+defaced> Expanse is a decentralized application platform, with a focus on a community involvement through blockchain based DAO.
10:06 <+defaced> Basically those are fancy words that simply mean, a distributed virtual state machine where users can create shared software applications.
10:07 <+sicarious> can you explain a little more about "users can create shared software applications?"  I'm not very techy, so what are some potential usecases that I could expect people to build on the expanse network?
10:07 <+defaced> of course
10:07 <+julian> !price exp
10:07 <+tars> *EXP on Bittrex* - `BID:` 0.00006502 `ASK:` 0.00006703 `LAST:` 0.00006802 `HIGH:` 0.00006803 `LOW:` 0.00006315 `VOLUME:` 664.22 EXP, 0.0429 BTC
10:07 <+tars> *EXP on Poloniex* - `BID:` 0.00006544 `ASK:` 0.00010236 `LAST:` 0.00010236 `HIGH:` 0.00010236 `LOW:` 0.00006110 `VOLUME:` 5444.16 EXP, 0.3702 BTC
10:08 <+defaced> In most cryptocurrencies there is a blockchain
10:08 <+defaced> a blockchain is essentially a shared database
10:09 <+defaced> bitcoin has a scripting language that allows bitcoin to do one simple thing, make transactions
10:09 <+defaced> in expanse, we also have a blockchain or shared database. But we have something else, a robust scripting language that users can use to create advanced scripts that are stored in the blockchain.
10:10 <+defaced> these scripts can be interacted with.
10:10 <+defaced> One use case, is a decentralized autonomous organization. Or an organisation whos bylaws are  coded into existence.
10:11 <+defaced> another use case would be something like augur, or a decentralized prediction market
10:11 <+aaltc> @defaced:  can you give us a little bit of background on why one might be interested on Expanse over Etheruem?
10:11 <+defaced> or even multisig addresses, oracles who can tell you the weather, gambling services, pretty much anything you could think an old phone could do, expanse can also do, in a way that everyone has access.
10:12 <+defaced> https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif
10:13 <+defaced> eth is great because we can build cross network applications
10:14 <+defaced> it might be cost effective to build apps on exp, exp can also spend more "gas" per app
10:14 <+danconway> Through the use of smart contracts, programmed logic can be executed on the blockchain . This can be used for simple means, like self-assuring contracts, information registries (think replacing registering vehicles DMV with the blockchain, or instead of a global centralized DNS registry for domains, a decentralized public one),   to the immense: things like prediction markets like AUGUR, or an entirely open decentralized market ,  ranging all the way to entire enterprise organizations operated near entirely on the blockchain.
10:14 <+sicarious> perhaps you could expound on what makes EXP unique from ETH, besides the dev team.
10:14 <+sicarious> though I imagine you get asked that a lot.
10:14 <+defaced> Yea thats an easier question haha.
10:14 <+aaltc> thanks @sicarious
10:15 <+danconway> The primary difference between EXP and ETH would surely be the Decentralized Organization that manages the project, through it, all major decisions of expanse are made. Its design and whats implemented in it, its future goals and plans to implement them, management of its funds and assets.
10:15 <+defaced> ^ Agreed
10:15 <+cryptoclub> With Expanse of course we can experiment more, and the DAO will control the premine/reserve, allowing the community to participate in the experiment with their own ideas. We can try some different things than ETH, and of course speculatively with a very low marketcap there is always potential for gains for investors and traders.
10:16 <+defaced> Some technical differences are, higher block reward, longer blocktime to cut down on wasted mining, and a higher gas limit so people can build bigger apps
10:16 <+cryptoclub> The design has funding for 10 years in theory, perhaps longer. The white paper will explain more. It is pretty much ready now.
10:18 <+cryptoclub> Dan and Franko can also create Dapps, so we will be coming up with original content beyond the design itself.
10:18 <+defaced> Something else that makes us stand out is Dans beautiful GUI wallet that is complete customized and has some incredible features coming soon.
10:18 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:18 <+danconway> Of course, over time, more and more difference between the projects will become apparent: we already have some custom software that isn't yet available for Ethereum etc. Since however it is our intention to follow the open source model that has become the standard in the industry, most of what we release can (and likely will) be cross implemented into ETH. The outstanding exception of course, is the Community DAO, as ethereums organizational model differs greatly from it.
10:18 <+cryptoclub> haha, yes, Soon
10:18 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:18 <+aaltc> Pic of the UI?
10:18 <+julian> i’ve noticed that there has been discussions of the premine in the bitcointalk thread and that @cryptoclub mentioned that 50k EXP had already been sold on the market. with other projects like AUGUR/ETH they put out long blog posts saying how much BTC they have dumped and at what price. can we expect to see blog posts like that?
10:19 <+defaced> @defaced uploaded a file: Pasted image at 2015-10-28, 4:18 PM https://jumbucks.slack.com/files/defaced/F0DCNG56F/pasted_image_at_2015_10_28_04_18_pm.png
10:19 <+danconway> @danconway uploaded a file: wallet1.jpg https://jumbucks.slack.com/files/danconway/F0DCS5XR8/wallet1.jpg
10:19 <+julian> tor browser on desktop! drugs!
10:19 <+aaltc> Ah thanks @danconway  easier to see
10:19 <+defaced> pft
10:19 <+cryptoclub> http://blog.expanse.tech   (lots of pics here)
10:19 <+danconway> Maybe its for testing Tor interoperability with software in development ;D
10:20 <+defaced> :wink:
10:20 <+aaltc> kek.
10:20 <+aaltc> Agora.onion/expanse
10:20 <+aaltc> ???
10:20 <+defaced> hell no lol
10:20 <+aaltc> fuck
10:20 <+aaltc> not interested
10:20 <+aaltc> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:20 <+cryptoclub> @julian I see no reason why not, we have used very little, and less than the other ETH variants.
10:20 <+cryptoclub> It is all on the blockchain, but making it as visible as possible makes sense.
10:21 <+julian> i think that posts like that would need to be made. eg. if EXP is sold for BTC, that is considered the funding model.
10:21 <+danconway> Expanse's technology certainly facilitates a decentralized marketplace though -- so it wouldn't be too surprising to see one coming soon.  Although I would likely be a little different from Agora ;D
10:21 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:21 <+defaced> In the future, everything will be documented in the DAO
10:21 <+julian> as opposed to an ICO where the BTC funding comes before the coin project has launched
10:21 <+sicarious> welcome @cryptoking you joined in the middle of an Expanse [EXP] Dev AMA.
10:22 <+cryptoclub> @julian I think any payments to devs should be public, what they do with it is up to them.
10:22 <+cryptoking> hi @sicarious
10:22 <+julian> sure, that would make sense
10:22 <+cryptoclub> (ideally they hold, but that is their call)
10:22 <+cryptoclub> We are very conscious of sell pressure.
10:22 <+julian> i guess what it’s lacking is “x amount of EXP was paid for the logo"
10:23 <+cryptoclub> Uhm, we paid quite a bit, but the price was lower.
10:23 <+cryptoclub> 4k?
10:23 <+julian> or “x amount of EXP was sold for BTC to pay for server costs"
10:23 <+cryptoclub> What was it Franko?
10:23 <+defaced> Yea it was 4k
10:23 <+cryptoclub> Yes, we love the logo, and he stepped up early on.
10:23 <+sicarious> yeah, I think the transparency of that is great.
10:23 <+cryptoclub> So he was rewarded.
10:23 <+aaltc> Very cool
10:24 <+aaltc> Do you have a bounty board? - tasks that need being done for exp? etc.
10:24 <+julian> it also shows people who want to get involved that payments go out to parties, etc...
10:24 <+defaced> Btw anyone who gets the gui working, let me get your address and ill send you a  surprise
10:24 <+cryptoclub> :simple_smile:
10:24 <+defaced> aaltc not atm we dont, because we have been handling alot ofit by ourselves to keep the cost low, but in the future, all bounties will be funded directly by the DAO contracts
10:24 <+aaltc> i see
10:24 <+aaltc> cool
10:25 <+defaced> so anything we payout right now comes directly from out pocket
10:25 <+cryptoclub> @julian with the DAO everything will be in Dapps for payments, but I do agree we should have some sort of report in the meantime.
10:25 <+julian> cool.
10:25 <+aaltc> is there a mac wallet available?
10:25 <+cryptoclub> Yes
10:25 <+danconway> We have rewarded a few small bounties to contributors, out of our personal funds, but since it should be the community/DAOs decision to vote on bounties and rewards, and which contributors are awarded them, we have tried to hold off on them until the DAO is live.
10:25 <+defaced> http://www.expanse.tech/downloads/expwallet-mac.zip
10:25 <+cryptoclub> Although I think it does not run on El Capitan, but works on Yosemite
10:26 <+aaltc> Ah bugger.
10:26 <+aaltc> I just updated
10:26 <+aaltc> :disappointed:
10:26 <+sicarious> What specifically about your project are you most excited about?
10:26 <+defaced> mac is the devil!
10:26 <+julian> :disappointed: i heff capitan
10:26 <+defaced> the DAO!
10:26 <+aaltc> i am le capitan
10:26 <+aaltc> the fuck
10:26 <+cryptoclub> Yes, I updated as someone reported the problem, then it didn't work. Dan will update that however.
10:26 <+aaltc> is works.
10:26 <+aaltc> i quite like the gui
10:26 <+defaced> its probably why we keep talkinga bout it. I'm telling you, its going to change the world of self governance.
10:26 <+aaltc> nice work @danconway
10:26 <+danconway> It might, but there has been reports of communication issues between the deamon and interface on el capitan, it will be fixed in the next release, with a slew of other improvements and new features -- although it might be a week or so before that release comes due to other major milestones for the project being in focus
10:26 <+defaced> https://soundcloud.com/frankocollective/expanse
10:27 <+cryptoclub> @sicarious: I am excited for when people start voting and watching it all come together.
10:27 <+aaltc> is this a theme song?
10:27 <+cryptoclub> the politics I guess...
10:27 <+defaced> lol its the abstract to the whitepaper in audio form
10:28 <+cryptoclub> White Paper and Website are basically done, I was hoping it would be out before this AMA, but has to be very very soon.
10:28 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:28 <+cryptoclub> :wink:
10:28 <+danconway> lol this slackbot ;D
10:28 < slackbot> okay.
10:28 <+julian> will you 3 be working on Expanse forever?
10:28 <+cryptoclub> I love it
10:29 <+cryptoclub> @julian ideally, yes.
10:29 <+defaced> @julian if i can get the nano bots that make me immortal, for sure. :simple_smile:
10:29 <+collincrypto> Your slack page is down.  http://slack.expanse.tech:3000/
10:29 <+defaced> till the heat death of the universe!
10:29 <+danconway> It would be amazing if the project can keep going that long, but I don't know if technology will facilitate out lifespans to exist forever ;D You can surely expect us to be working on the project for the foreseeable future however.
10:29 <+defaced> http://slack.expanse.tech
10:29 <+aaltc> @collincrypto:  it’s without the 3000
10:29 <+aaltc> they should fix that link though
10:30 <+defaced> agreed
10:30 <+collincrypto> :+1:    -  typo in ANN ;D
10:30 <+defaced> we also have a twitter
10:30 <+sicarious> you should hire an editor.
10:30 <+aaltc> you has a twitter?
10:30 <+aaltc> all in.
10:30 <+sicarious> !lennybot
10:30 <+defaced> send me your address and ill tip you for finding it :stuck_out_tongue:
10:30 <+aaltc> !lennyface
10:30 < slackbot> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:30 <+defaced> http://www.twitter.com/expanseofficial
10:30 <+danconway> the ANN is a little out of date ;] it needs a little makeover, but there are a lot of priorities of focus currently...
10:30 <+aaltc> ah @danconway  one note i might add; is the logo quality pretty low quality when you’re in the mac application switching tab
10:31 <+aaltc> Command + TAB
10:31 <+defaced> updated that link
10:31 <+cryptoclub> cool franko
10:31 <+defaced> swift fingers
10:31 <+danconway> We have a great deal of very exciting plans for the project, but are hesitant to announce anything not near release! We certainly wont be stopping development anytime soon. ;]
10:31 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:31 <+julian> do you guys have a roadmap as to what you will be working on in the next 3 months say? not sure what you guys are working on.
10:32 <+defaced> Getting the DAO perfect is priority one
10:32 <+cryptoclub> The DAO, then Dapps after all of that. In wallet voting along with the DAO.
10:32 <+aaltc> @aaltc uploaded a file: Slack for iOS Upload https://jumbucks.slack.com/files/aaltc/F0DCN637X/slack_for_ios_upload.jpg
10:32 <+danconway> @aaltc:  Thanks for the feedback, its scaling up a small .icms, I think I need to make it a different format for how it shows up in the previews, ill have to look into it. Both Mac development and even more so QT development are new to me with this project. ;]
10:33 <+aaltc> Gotcha; yeah no worries. lots of wallets have low res files for mac icons. I just tend to point them out. lol
10:33 <+defaced> lol
10:33 <+danconway> Will see what I can do about it ;D
10:33 <+julian> so people will need x amount of EXP to participate in the DAO?
10:33 <+defaced> pft mac
10:33 <+aaltc> This wallet seems a bit different than your regular QT
10:33 <+defaced> yes atleast 1 exp to vote in the community division
10:33 <+aaltc> Going to have to read through the documentation
10:34 <+danconway> The wallet is entirely custom
10:34 <+cryptoclub> @julian everything we are working on will be things we can deliver as well, which of course is obvious, but not always the case with Bitcointalk roadmaps.
10:34 <+defaced> something interesting about that is though, everytime they vote they earn a stat known as "influence"
10:34 <+danconway> QT is just an interface toolkit, so that the same code can generate a user interface on multiple platforms
10:34 <+defaced> the more they participate the more influence they have in voting
10:34 <+cryptoclub> They need the Whitepaper
10:34 <+cryptoclub> heh
10:35 <+defaced> we should give them the preview
10:35 <+cryptoclub> ya
10:35 <+aaltc> yes you should
10:35 <+collincrypto> defaced [3:30 PM]
10:35 <+collincrypto> send me your address and ill tip you for finding it
10:35 <+collincrypto> how about reciprocating my bitrated.com http://bitrated.com  review?   *shill, going for that #1 spot on the site*
10:35 <+collincrypto> lol
10:35 <+aaltc> Oh shit/
10:35 <+aaltc> bitrated circle jerk
10:35 <+collincrypto> I kid
10:35 <+defaced> collin i thought i did
10:36 <+aaltc> What is Algorithm: Dagger
10:36 <+julian> in another coin, nautiluscoin, in theory the original premine was used as a “stability fund” or buy support (sometimes). will EXP use the premine for buy support at times? or how will you counteract miners selling as well as premine selling?
10:36 <+aaltc> I’ve never seen that algo before - what’s new about it
10:37 <+aaltc> answer @julian’s question first.
10:37 <+aaltc> Algo’s can wait.
10:37 <+aaltc> lol
10:37 <+danconway> If the DAO decides to vote in a manner to do such, it may -- but we will not be utilizing exp's funds to do so.
10:37 <+cryptoclub> @julian, no, although unofficially traders can do whatever they like.
10:37 <+defaced> dagger is a memory intensive hashing algorithm
10:37 <+cryptoclub> I don't believe in stability funds
10:38 <+julian> naut really a “stability fund”. sometimes a market needs market making or buy support to help liquidity, etc..
10:38 <+cryptoclub> As for counteracting selling pressure, we have to add more value over time.
10:38 <+aaltc> Do you guys mine Expanse yourselves?
10:38 <+julian> well i guess that’s a definition of “stability fund"
10:38 <+danconway> For clarification, Ethereum and Expanse official use ethash, which is a further developed modified implementation of Dagger-Hasimoto. People still contextually refer to it as 'Dagger' or "Dagger-Hasimoto" in context of Eth or Exp, but ethash does differ from dagger-hasimoto.
10:38 <+cryptoclub> I mine Expanse, yes, 4 GPUs, not exactly a farm. I mine 24/7 though.
10:39 <+defaced> aaltc yes i mine it with two 7970's
10:39 <+defaced> its getting winter time and free heat man!
10:39 <+aaltc> lol
10:39 <+defaced> im a miner from the days btc was 25 cents
10:39 <+defaced> its my passion
10:39 <+cryptoclub> I might turn my scrypt miners back on once it is cold enough.
10:39 <+aaltc> kek
10:39 <+danconway> I mined the first 2-3 days, I was able to get about 500 ;D
10:39 <+defaced> mining is what sold me on bitcoin
10:39 <+aaltc> Where are you guys from?
10:39 <+defaced> I live in NC usa
10:40 <+danconway> Near Chicago
10:40 <+cryptoclub> I live in Texas, born in Vegas and moved around a lot.
10:40 <+aaltc> Neat
10:40 <+defaced> hbu
10:40 <+aaltc> Cali
10:40 <+cryptoclub> Yes, grew up in Cali
10:40 <+defaced> inb4 emerald triangle
10:40 <+aaltc> i dont need additional heat.
10:40 <+aaltc> lol
10:41 <+defaced> @collincrypto: im totally looking for my bitrated login info
10:41 <+aaltc> lmao
10:41 <+collincrypto> xD
10:41 <+aaltc> no one ever finds it @defaced
10:41 <+aaltc> rip
10:41 <+collincrypto> 16 random words as a password, no chance for recovery
10:41 <+collincrypto> not the best solution
10:41 <+aaltc> lmao
10:41 <+defaced> agreed
10:42 <+aaltc> kek
10:42 <+defaced> which is probably why no one ever goes back
10:42 <+aaltc> yu
10:42 <+collincrypto> yep
10:42 <+aaltc> bitrekted.com http://bitrekted.com
10:42 <+collincrypto> I get a few emails a month asking for arbitration but yeah it's brand new accounts generally
10:42 <+defaced> ive got like 10 tb of old externals im searching through atm
10:42 <+julian> will Expanse be approaching other companies to get on board? i see microsoft announced something with ethereum today
10:42 <+aaltc> loll
10:43 <+aaltc> @julian: yeah thta was interesting.
10:43 <+aaltc> Also - Did you guys hear
10:43 <+aaltc> Microsoft no longer accepts bitcoin as of this past week?
10:43 <+julian> maybe i will buy ethereum now. they seem stronk.
10:43 <+defaced> Yea its pretty cool news for consenys
10:43 <+cryptoclub> @julian initially I would say smaller crypto related things, but long term I think that is a possibility. We need a much higher marketcap first.
10:43 <+aaltc> @cryptoclub:  so you’re saying this is the bottom?
10:43 <+aaltc> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:43 <+keesmomma> For ltc yes
10:43 <+danconway> It's definitely far from the top ;D
10:44 <+aaltc> lol
10:44 <+keesmomma> !lennyface
10:44 < slackbot> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:44 <+defaced> holy shit i found it
10:44 <+cryptoclub> My other project was 100k-200k most of the time, I certainly hope this is the bottom, and I definitely want to do better than Horizon over time, or at least match it.
10:44 <+cryptoclub> (just me personally, an ego thing)
10:44 <+aaltc> lol
10:44 <+keesmomma> So expanse will be more than hz?
10:45 <+keesmomma> Hz is horizon yes
10:45 <+keesmomma> !price exp
10:45 <+tars> *EXP on Bittrex* - `BID:` 0.00006502 `ASK:` 0.00006703 `LAST:` 0.00006703 `HIGH:` 0.00006803 `LOW:` 0.00006318 `VOLUME:` 712.63 EXP, 0.0464 BTC
10:45 <+tars> *EXP on Poloniex* - `BID:` 0.00006565 `ASK:` 0.00010237 `LAST:` 0.00010236 `HIGH:` 0.00010236 `LOW:` 0.00006110 `VOLUME:` 5444.16 EXP, 0.3702 BTC
10:45 <+collincrypto> I might have missed this, is the DAO framework and whatnot out yet?
10:45 <+cryptoclub> Correct, I think we have a great team and a lot of potential.
10:45 <+keesmomma> All in
10:45 <+collincrypto> saw mentions of that being put together iirc
10:45 <+defaced> @collincrypto: not yet
10:45 <+aaltc> soon.
10:45 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
10:45 <+cryptoclub> The other ETH clones have anon devs, so we have an edge over them IMHO.
10:45 <+defaced> how is my pw wrong -,-
10:45 <+aaltc> lmao
10:45 <+defaced> im copying it directly from the pdf
10:45 <+aaltc> rip @defaced
10:46 <+keesmomma> Are you worried about volume?
10:46 <+defaced> id like things to grow organically
10:46 <+defaced> volume will come
10:46 <+cryptoclub> I am not worried about Volume as we are POW now and will always get it. Buy support is always my main concern.
10:46 <+cryptoking> After shit like $URO @cryptoclub  do you really think anon vs. real identity gives extra confidence to a project?
10:47 <+collincrypto> it doesn't hurt
10:47 <+cryptoclub> Yes, it doesn't hurt.
10:47 <+cryptoclub> We have reps and are not going to just vanish one day.
10:47 <+julian> maybe the team needs to put buy support in the early days to show confidence in the project
10:47 <+cryptoclub> And we are not making any promises like URO
10:48 <+cryptoking> so - you're just identified, but you're not promising anything.
10:48 <+cryptoking> >_>
10:48 <+defaced> I always have buy support hanging over the market
10:48 <+cryptoclub> Cryptoking, not promising anything we can't deliver.
10:49 <+sicarious> "over?" 0_o
10:49 <+cryptoking> @sicarious:  yes the ominous buy sell support
10:49 <+cryptoking> you know.
10:49 <+sicarious> lol
10:49 <+defaced> when its low i send btc and buy
10:50 <+aaltc> "where does the bitcoin go?"
10:50 <+sicarious> what do you consider "low?"
10:50 <+cryptoking> ^
10:50 <+danconway> As stated previously, we have quite a lot of plans and things in development, but we won't rush to announcing anything until its ready to go, unless its something being proposed and discussed on the DAO
10:50 <+cryptoking> looks like rekt after rekt to me.
10:50 <+defaced> well at 5k sat i can buy every expanse out
10:50 <+defaced> thats low to me
10:50 <+cryptoking> @defaced:  do it.
10:50 <+danconway> if a project is making grandeous world changing claims, that's a likely yellow or red flag
10:51 <+defaced> @cryptoking:  my forcing the price anywhere days are over.
10:51 <+cryptoking> @defaced:  so where would you advise people to "invest" in this project.
10:51 <+julian> a question for the team. is volume evil? because i think “organic volume” doesn’t really exist.
10:51 <+aaltc> I think that’s valid.
10:51 <+defaced> whereever they feel comfortable.
10:51 <+eleven> solid question jyap
10:52 <+defaced> volume isnt evil, volume is good, volume and distribution are the goal.
10:52 <+cryptoclub> @julian volume is very important, not evil at all. Worrying about volume for me is worrying about losing a slot, and that won't happen.
10:52 <+eleven> "Worrying about volume for me is worrying about losing a slot, and that won't happen. "
10:52 <+aaltc> losing a slot?
10:52 <+danconway> Volume is good, fake volume isn't (although can be for a project to keep people interested, seeing a high volume on an exchange)
10:52 <+eleven> does this imply you will fake it to make it
10:52 <+aaltc> wat
10:52 <+cryptoclub> Being delisted.
10:53 <+aaltc> Ah
10:53 <+julian> but if EXP were to get say 60 BTC of volume, that’s obviously not organic, right?
10:53 <+sicarious> are you promoting faking volume?
10:53 <+sicarious> 0_o
10:53 <+cryptoclub> Eleven, no POW has miners that will sell regardless.
10:53 <+cryptoking> 0_o
10:53 <+sicarious> @bittrex-bill:
10:53 <+danconway> No, the opposite
10:53 <+defaced> @julian not if im all 60 btc
10:53 <+defaced> but if its 60 btc because people here like our idea, that would be organic.
10:53 <+danconway> We are saying we have no interest in faking volume, nor a need to when the project has legitimate growth merits
10:53 <+eleven> I see, What is the daily dump amount from the miners, enough to keep you listed?
10:53 <+cryptoclub> Yes it is.
10:53 <+aaltc> Hmm.
10:54 <+danconway> that also says there are that many people willing to purchase that day, as well ;D
10:54 <+aaltc> Do you guys consider Etheruem a “real” project?
10:54 <+sicarious> is EXP ever going to switch to POS?
10:54 <+danconway> Absoloutely
10:54 <+cryptoclub> Yes, EXP will switch to POS.
10:54 <+aaltc> Cause I think we can all agree their volume on poloniex is _inflated_
10:54 <+aaltc> at best.
10:54 <+eleven> volume does not equal higher prices lol
10:54 <+sicarious> I don't have a miner, but would be glad to support a good project with staking
10:54 <+eleven> could jsut bedaily dumps @ 1 sat to keep you listed
10:54 <+aaltc> cryptoclub ETA?
10:55 <+danconway> Ethereum is an amazing project, by far one of the strongest (2nd to bitcoin in my opinion, both in network advantage, and resources) and ethereum surpasses bitcoin in technological capabilities
10:55 <+aaltc> Also have any of your developers actually done the work of converting PoW to PoS before?
10:55 <+cryptoclub> imho, we will do it along with Ethereum later, and develop Dapps and other things in the meantime. Not an easy task.
10:55 <+sicarious> oh, you guys are on Polo?
10:55 <+sicarious> nice.
10:55 <+sicarious> How'd you get on polo?
10:55 <+cryptoclub> Yes, we are on Polo :simple_smile:
10:55 <+aaltc> Shill it till you make it
10:55 <+aaltc> lol
10:55 <+defaced> we are on polo, bittrex, and cryptsy
10:55 <+cryptoclub> Franko and I are pretty well known.
10:55 <+defaced> shill it until you fill it?
10:56 <+aaltc> lols
10:56 <+cryptoclub> haha
10:56 <+aaltc> i like thta
10:56 <+danconway> I have a great respect for the Eth project, its software, and its core team. I am a big fan of Vitalik. Like everyone, I share my criticisms about some of the management decisions they have made -- but that is all in retrospect. They have done quite a lot in a short time, it can be very difficult to manage such an enterprise.
10:56 <+cryptoclub> we are also on Bleutrade
10:56 <+aaltc> Answer pls >>Also have any of your developers actually done the work of converting PoW to PoS before?
10:56 <+defaced> @danconway:  same
10:56 <+julian> are you afraid of other ETH clones coming along?
10:56 <+defaced> @aaltc for bitcoin variants i have
10:56 <+danconway> Not at all, we have faith in our own abilities and plans, if a team can come along to bring about big innovations on Ethereum based platforms, it will benefit us as well
10:57 <+cryptoclub> I think we compare well to the others, and I know some of their promises are not likely to happen. As for future competitors, that is an unknown.
10:57 <+defaced> i understand how pos well,. but adding it to exp, is a completely new beast
10:57 <+defaced> how pos works*
10:57 <+aaltc> @defaced:  cool. Yeah; my understanding is that adding PoS is no small feat
10:57 <+collincrypto> Are any of you going to the ethereum dev conference coming up next week?
10:57 <+sicarious> @julian: you did that to Jumbucks, right?
10:58 <+julian> JBS already had PoS baked in
10:58 <+aaltc> i believe the core code already had PoS, no?
10:58 <+aaltc> yeah
10:58 <+danconway> It is a strong reality, that most crypto projects can benefit from each other more than take away from each other.  Projects without legitimacy must struggle for market share over what can be gained with just an ANN and some branding, Long term projects tend to substantiate their own value, if they have it
10:58 <+sicarious> so is adding pos to EXP a change in direction from launch, since it wasn't coded in?
10:58 <+julian> at what point will the team say “ok this isn’t working” and quit?
10:59 <+cryptoking> ^
10:59 <+aaltc> Will exp move to ONLY  PoS or will it do PoS in combination with PoW
10:59 <+cryptoclub> @julian if the community wanted that, I guess it could happen. I see no reason to leave however. I have other incomes and this is something I can spend free time with.
10:59 <+defaced> I'm an advocate for hybrid model
11:00 <+aaltc> @defaced:  will your block time be sped up by this?
11:00 <+aaltc> i.e. 1 min PoS 1 min PoW = 30 seconds
11:00 <+defaced> thats soemthing we can certainly consider
11:00 <+defaced> the reason our blocktime is so high, is to help network propagation.
11:00 <+aaltc> Yeah I noticed that with trex deposits.
11:00 <+aaltc> >_>
11:01 <+aaltc> lol
11:01 <+aaltc> 12.5 hours later, do what you want with your expanser.
11:01 <+danconway> I am extremely familiar with PoS based on bitcoin-like code and most variations based off it. As Chris said, implementing such in ETH/EXP is a wildy different scenario.
11:02 <+aaltc> @aaltc uploaded a file: Expanse-Blewish.gif https://jumbucks.slack.com/files/aaltc/F0DCUQSS3/expanse-blewish.gif
11:02 <+aaltc> Pump Graphics!
11:02 <+danconway> 750 Blocks is the time deemed by ethereum to be the maximum logical amount for a block reorganization.... While our 1min block time facilitates for a somewhat shorter amount of confs than this, mining is not well distributed yet
11:02 <+defaced> haha
11:03 <+danconway> due to the majority of mining being concentrated to one or two major pools, deep reorganization is a potential risk, so for safety of exchanges and users, they are maintaining a 750conf
11:04 <+aaltc> I see; well i’m not particularly familiar with ETH/EXP framework. Just seems - unfortunate that EXP takes 12.5 hours to be useable from exchange to exchange when other coins can confirm in 6 minutes.
11:04 <+danconway> This will change once we have more distributed mining, but also ethereum is working on an improvement to this as well ( as it was not their intention for things to take so long either, but imposed such in retrospective analysis )
11:04 <+cryptoclub> @aaltc: wallet to wallet it is fast, just  a precaution until updates take care of it in the future. Annoying now though, yes.
11:05 <+aaltc> What’s the timeline for that update are you guys thinking?
11:06 <+cryptoclub> Eventually it will be POS, but I believe Ethereum will update their code soon, and we can do the same based on that. Not sure of an exact timeline for it.
11:06 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
11:06 <+aaltc> lol
11:06 <+cryptoclub> love that
11:06 <+collincrypto> This was posted 5 minutes ago, just a semi-related FYI:   http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-rolls-out-ethereum-toolkit-for-business-users/
11:06 <+aaltc> shiat.
11:06 <+danconway> We don't like to state dates that aren't going to be in stone, so cant really provide more than a generalization
11:06 <+aaltc> Microsoft loves eth hates btc
11:07 <+aaltc> RIP btc.
11:07 <+aaltc> @danconway:  i understand; but i think timelines even if they are vague, at least ranges of time are important. As often, like you guys stated, devs over promise and undeliver.
11:08 <+aaltc> Timelines ensure that speculators will have a good range to gauge the developer’s in meeting those deadlines. at least imo
11:08 <+cryptoclub> Truth is we need the update from Ethereum, so, when they are ready, we are.
11:09 <+cryptoclub> (for that issue)
11:09 <+danconway> An improvement to exchange block-confirmations requirements will depend on eth, realistically and hopefully, it will be able to be sooner achieved through better mining distribution
11:09 <+cryptoking> Sounds like you're pretty dependent on the Ethereum dev team. Would you guys be "screwed" if the Eth team up and ran?
11:10 <+defaced> no, because then there would be an incentive to pick up and work on exp
11:10 <+defaced> our DAO
11:10 <+cryptoclub> Interesting question, if Ethereum folded up, maybe we could get more devs to join us?
11:10 <+danconway> If Eths dev team disappeared, it would be a pretty negative impact on us, but not due to the issue of confirmations
11:10 <+cryptoclub> that is very unlikely,
11:10 <+cryptoking> What would encourage people to join your project vs. other ETH clones
11:10 <+danconway> moreso, ethereum has a great deal of people contributing to it, and those benefits directly pass over to us
11:10 <+cryptoking> or simply creating their own if the trust is lost in ETH.
11:11 <+cryptoclub> As far as devs, bounties could be offered. Some will always just make their own project though.
11:11 <+danconway> I think ETH is a little better structurally organized than to be looking at it like that, however
11:11 <+defaced> @cryptoking all of those things would happen, some people would come to us, some would make their own, some would just stop working in crypto
11:11 <+cryptoclub> I am not too worried about Eth folding up, but I suppose anything is possible.
11:12 <+cryptoking> I am simply pointing out what you guys are setting up seems to have a pretty big central point of failure.
11:12 <+cryptoclub> I understand.
11:12 <+julian> will the team members be taking on other coin projects?
11:12 <+cryptoking> Ethereum devs have already stated that they are vastly underfunded.
11:12 <+julian> i want dedication before i lay down 10 BTC
11:12 <+danconway> The open community model, will and is hopefully a big appeal for people to take part in our project compared to others ; after all, a regular user can have an actual input on everything that happens with the project, rather than just voice an opinion in a forum thread and hope its adopted.
11:12 <+defaced> I work on FRK and have for 3 years.
11:12 <+julian> well new coin projects
11:12 <+defaced> Am i making anything else in the near future? Doubtful.
11:12 <+cryptoclub> @julian I can't imagine it at this point, in a few years maybe, maybe not.
11:13 <+julian> so no further projects say by 2017?
11:13 <+cryptoclub> I have worked on Horizon, an Asset I made for Horizon, and Expanse. That is it over all the years I have been in cryptos.
11:13 <+defaced> for the next few years im going to be focusing on creating services for EXP/FRK
11:13 <+cryptoclub> and I still support Horizon and  HZchronos
11:13 <+cryptoking> @julian:  i'd wait a bit before putting down 10 btc. maybe when it's at like 1000-2000 sats.
11:13 <+danconway> Noone can knowingfully say for sure, but none of us have any plans to, and all of us absooutely see ourselves working on this project full time for at least the next year, and much longer
11:13 <+julian> oh wow, full time? like this is your job?
11:14 <+defaced> currently its my job
11:14 <+aaltc> Dayum sun
11:14 <+cryptoclub> I own a small business, cryptos are what I do as a hobby, obsession I guess.
11:14 <+danconway> However, it is also worth noting we are adults with real life expenses, and the project is not generating income for us, so if it does not we will have to of course spend some of our developmental time on projects that will
11:14 <+defaced> it can be my job because i have tons of passive income from my past projects.
11:14 <+danconway> as without electricity or internet, or a home, it will be hard to develop expanse ;D
11:14 <+cryptoking> dumperoni
11:14 <+julian> @danconway: your full time job too?
11:14 <+danconway> This is my full time job currently
11:14 <+danconway> I work on expanse about 8 hours a day
11:14 <+defaced> I say tons, enough to pay my bills and give me spending money. ^_^
11:15 <+julian> i was not aware
11:15 <+aaltc> interdasting.
11:15 <+cryptoclub> I work many hours on it, but my business in my income. I have much higher expenses than Dan  or Franko of course. (being much older)
11:15 <+danconway> Franko and James as well have contributed a great deal of their personal and professional time to the project in its early development
11:15 <+collincrypto> Ethereum has a very high burn rate due to all of their employees, expenses, etc.  Are you able to share your burn rate/expenses?
11:15 <+danconway> but going into the future, it remains my primary use of professional time, and while getting important things going, most of my personal time too
11:16 <+aaltc> @cryptoclub so you’re  like wat, 30? lol.
11:16 <+danconway> I am 31. ;D
11:16 <+defaced> our expenses are incredibly low, right now
11:16 <+cryptoclub> aaltc I am 47
11:16 <+aaltc> Damn.
11:16 <+defaced> im 29
11:16 <+aaltc> I thought the Crypto Cut Off was like 35.
11:16 <+julian> shit, 47?
11:16 <+cryptoclub> Thanks :simple_smile:
11:16 <+danconway> We have no intentions of spending any money that isn't necessary -- we have all witnessed far too many projects blow through their funds in this manner.
11:16 <+cryptoclub> Yes, I look young as hell. My dad is like 70, looks 50
11:16 <+julian> do you have grandkids?
11:17 <+aaltc> just me.
11:17 <+defaced> just EXP expenses is about 7 servers/nodes
11:17 <+danconway> We have awarded very small amounts of exp to people for contributions such as Logo
11:17 <+cryptoclub> No kids, just a wife and a dog.
11:17 <+danconway> then we have nodes, virtuals servers(5$ a month), a domain here or there
11:17 <+cryptoking> dog food is expansive.
11:17 <+cryptoking> damp.
11:17 <+julian> ah my dog died. i heff 2 kids now.
11:17 <+defaced> very minimal spending atm
11:17 <+danconway> Our projects total expense are less than 100$ a month
11:17 <+defaced> which gives us a long term advantage
11:18 <+cryptoclub> We can cover all the basics with the team, so we don't need to hire anyone.
11:18 <+sicarious> $100 a month? seems quite reasonable
11:18 <+eleven> at work so been in and out of this. If i understand correctly. Some of the issues you guys are having rely on ETH fixing some issues on their end before you can fix them. Do you see this as an issue in the future for bringing more people to your coin vs ETH?
11:18 <+danconway> Of course, what direction that goes in the future, is up to the community
11:18 <+cryptoclub> Eleven long term it won't matter, but right now it is a roadblock.
11:18 <+danconway> after all, the funds are held by the DAO, and must be unlocked through voting, and even then with specific limitations on how much and for what
11:19 <+defaced> eleven, short term problem, long term not as big of a deal, the more we diverge in the future the less reliant we become on them.
11:19 <+cryptoclub> I am looking at the project a year out, and concerned more about it lasting and growing, but of course early problems like that are a concern. Only temporary however.
11:19 <+danconway> To clarify -- it is not directly an issue that we are waiting on ETH to fix and reliant on them. It is a byproduct of eths design, in which they are improving. The issue is more caused by there not being enough miners, and to prevent an attack from being possible/likely, that many confirmations is necessary.
11:19 <+defaced> ^
11:19 <+danconway> If there was a major issue, we would (and in some cases have) implement our own temporary fix, until the issues is better understood by the overall community
11:20 <+cryptoking> Sounds like you guys delved into a codebase that is rather new and untested.
11:20 <+collincrypto> welcome to crypto
11:20 <+danconway> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion
11:20 <+cryptoclub> :simple_smile:
11:20 <+danconway> It is simply that there isn't enough hashpower
11:21 <+danconway> I can explain to you technically if you like, how and why that is the case
11:21 <+defaced> @cryptoking yup lol but the good thing is, we all get to actively test for each other.
11:21 <+danconway> although I will note, you do seem to be speaking with a specific spin intent ;]
11:21 <+cryptoking> lol so, no from dan and yes from franko.
11:21 <+cryptoking> o_o
11:21 <+defaced> im saying yes, as in, its all untested code
11:21 <+defaced> from bitcoin to eth
11:21 <+danconway> let me clarify futher- yes, it is correcft
11:21 <+defaced> its how we do it
11:21 <+danconway> ethereum is new and untested
11:22 <+danconway> and we are by proxy, as well
11:22 <+defaced> we as the crypto community
11:22 <+cryptoking> lol
11:22 <+cryptoclub> They state that as well.
11:22 <+danconway> This issue however, is not related to that
11:22 <+eleven> sweet :simple_smile: eth is new and I there is a bigger learning curve compared to just BTC and others so starting out with a eth base clone is much harder than just making LTC v300 where everyone knows how to mine.  DO you see mining becoming more accessible in the future for less tech savy people? like BTC did with pools and such. I know a few people that stil lcant solo mine but can mine on a pool with no issues
11:22 <+eleven> not saying that wth will get pools
11:22 <+eleven> eth*
11:22 <+cryptoking> I like LTCv300 it's faster than btc.
11:22 <+cryptoking> Exp is like 200x slower than btc.
11:22 <+defaced> eleven yes of course pools are out now for eth
11:22 <+eleven> but the mining set up process is still quite jargon heavy
11:22 <+defaced> confirmations in exp are 10x faster than bitcoin
11:22 <+cryptoclub> @cryptoclub uploaded a file: ETH https://jumbucks.slack.com/files/cryptoclub/F0DCX3L90/11.tiff
11:22 <+defaced> tx's are instant
11:23 <+danconway> A big part of our project focus is making things intuitive and available to regular users
11:23 <+julian> do you have plans to attract more miners to EXP?
11:23 <+defaced> 750 confirms is a security protocol
11:23 <+cryptoclub> Notice "Safe" crossed out? Eth is new, and still evolving.
11:23 <+danconway> starting with our GUI wallet, we have much more elaborate plans
11:23 <+defaced> but you dont have to use it
11:23 <+danconway> but its important for it to be easy for regular people to use and understand, without complex technical knowledge of whats going on under the hood
11:23 <+cryptoking> Yes - but my point being
11:23 <+cryptoclub> Julian profits attract miners, but yes, I think it can also be marketed as a good option to mine and hold.
11:23 <+cryptoking> if ethereum is not safe etc; and it's still a new frontier
11:24 <+cryptoking> relying on their consistent development is a large central point of failure.
11:24 <+danconway> That is for the puropose of disclaimer
11:24 <+cryptoclub> That is why we need the confirms, and why Eth has so many.
11:24 <+eleven> never said it wasnt safe, just new
11:24 <+danconway> Ethereum has paid quite a lot of money to lawyers, and no lawyer is going to let you put a phrase with that much liability out there ;D
11:24 <+defaced> we arnt completely reliant on it, we are diverging, slowly.
11:25 <+defaced> But as they make protocol updates we will also
11:25 <+danconway> Do consider Safe is relative... Bitcoin is or isn't safe... US Dollar is and isn't safe... Its to what metrics
11:26 <+danconway> I consider ETH safe enough to where I have a decent amount of my % savings in it (which arnt much, lol)
11:26 <+danconway> I consider BTC safer
11:26 <+cryptoclub> Yes, agreed Dan.
11:27 <+aaltc> Are there any services you are working on that will accept expanse/
11:28 <+defaced> I'm working on one called EXP.life
11:28 <+cryptoclub> I know some other devs that are working on a project for it, not announced yet.
11:28 <+defaced> a microemployment platform that will store users experience earned from doing user generated quest on the blockchain
11:28 <+cryptoclub> (That I knew from the past)
11:28 <+danconway> We are working on a number of DAPPS to highlight expanse's potential and features, as well as provide some real world use for the project as well increasing network activity
11:28 <+aaltc> What is exp.life
11:29 <+danconway> I personally have a notebook full of DAPPS enough to keep me busy for years! I'm only hoping I can produce a fraction of them
11:29 <+cryptoclub> Generally we want to focus on having lots of Dapps, utilities, and the DAO making it unique, rather than trying to redesign ETH much initially.
11:29 <+danconway> but who knows how fast this technological scape will continiue to shift
11:29 <+collincrypto> ^ on a similar note as aaltc, if investors were looking at building projects and needed to hire development work would there be a potential for discounts/joint-venture situations if it's attached to expanse, mutual benefit in a sense.
11:30 <+defaced> im open to that of course
11:30 <+danconway> Well, there is an inherint mutual benefit to anything ETh-EXP etc
11:30 <+aaltc> :smirk: smells like collusion.
11:30 <+cryptoclub> Yes Collincrypto, bounties are possible, and if nothing else, I can certainly give free promotions and advertising. Mutually beneficial..
11:30 <+danconway> If someone makes a project for EXP, it can be launched on ETH as well, and vice versa, if someone is running a for profit DAPP there isn't much reason for them not to launch it on both platforms
11:30 <+cryptoclub> Anything that helps Expanse, I am willing to promote.
11:31 <+defaced> same
11:31 <+aaltc> I am confused.
11:31 <+aaltc> Why would someone launch a project on ETH and EXP
11:31 <+defaced> aaltc because its the same code
11:31 <+cryptoclub> Oh yes, another person I know is doing a credit card crypto business, should be accepting Expanse, so I will help with advertising for it.
11:31 <+defaced> they would just copy and paste their code into an exp tx
11:31 <+danconway> Because they can offer it to the users of both
11:31 <+danconway> equally, someone else can copy their dapp and launch it on the other one
11:31 <+aaltc> :scream:
11:31 <+danconway> of course, there are front-end dapps that can be closed source
11:31 <+danconway> and you will likely see a lot of these
11:32 <+aaltc> As you can tell I'm not horribly familiar with ETH
11:32 <+eleven> CC Crypto business? care to elaborate?  Sounds risky
11:32 <+cryptoclub> We are open source, they they will take it anyway, best to get credit. Other than unique options like the DAO.
11:32 <+danconway> but the contracts powering the backend will be visible to everyone, as they are public on the blockchain contracts
11:32 <+aaltc> Hm.
11:32 <+defaced> something even more interesting, i hinted on in my transmission interview a few days ago is, eth and exp can have cross chain transactions O_O
11:32 <+defaced> and virtually act as side chains for each other
11:32 <+aaltc> :scream::point_up_2::point_right::point_down::point_left:
11:32 <+cryptoclub> haah
11:33 <+aaltc> That's both interesting and confusing to me. Lol
11:33 <+cyperxnaut> its got all the buzz words :smiley:
11:33 <+aaltc> It's interesting as its cross chain. But at the same time it makes me question why I need two chains.
11:33 <+aaltc> #2chains #represent
11:33 <+coinigy-william> was waiting for rap reference
11:34 <+coinigy-william> delivered
11:34 <+cryptoclub> "eleven [4:32 PM]
11:34 <+cryptoclub> CC Crypto business? care to elaborate?  Sounds risky" Just someone I know in the crypto world. He wanted me to promote his upcoming business, I said is he accepts  Expanse, I can do it for him. (mutually beneficial)
11:34 <+aaltc> :smirk:
11:34 <+aaltc> :wave: @coinigy-william
11:34 <+defaced> well its just what the eth scripting language would allow, like we were talking earlier in use case. The sky is the limit.
11:34 <+eleven> I see I see
11:34 <+cryptoclub> I trust him so I am sure it is legit, but until he does it, it isn't real.
11:35 <+defaced> for anyone interested in participating, join our slack
11:35 <+collincrypto> what programming languages do you generally work with?   What did you do prior to crypto?
11:35 <+defaced> http://slack.expanse.tech
11:36 <+eleven> and yeah, how does cross chain work, that seems both useful and confusing
11:36 <+danconway> I primarily use c++, javascript, I used to use php and c# a lot, recently have been using go and nodejs for more modern crypto projects.
11:37 <+danconway> python as well, is the pocketknife of most devs
11:37 <+defaced> theoretically, you would have a contract on each chain that monitors the other chain and creates special assets that represent the other chains asset.
11:37 <+julian> tipbot tip @defaced 5
11:37 < > @julian tipped @defaced 5.0 JBS
11:37 < > @julian tipped @defaced 5.0 JBS
11:37 <+julian> tipbot tip @danconway 5
11:37 < > @julian tipped @danconway 5.0 JBS
11:37 < > @julian tipped @danconway 5.0 JBS
11:37 <+julian> tipbot tip @cryptoclub 5
11:37 < > @julian tipped @cryptoclub 5.0 JBS
11:37 < > @julian tipped @cryptoclub 5.0 JBS
11:38 <+cryptoclub> To the moon!
11:38 <+defaced> I wish i could tip exp in here
11:38 <+cryptoclub> Love the bot
11:38 <+cryptoclub> soon
11:38 < slackbot> Soonâ„¢
11:38 <+julian> everyone post your EXP address. @defaced going to make it rain on you
11:38 <+defaced> !rain
11:39 <+cryptoclub> Try out the wallet if you get a chance as well, it is pretty cool :simple_smile:
11:39 <+julian> 0xd3edc0f4bcb90b6df88abb8cd5c8877e01b3436c
11:39 <+julian> ^ woo
11:39 < slackbot> Yusss!
11:42 <+aaltc> 0x753f66c106a4d353e9913551294f1c3e47fc6c7e
11:42 <+asicdog> 0x072765faaedee8fa60cf3b534e6195f9e9c1722f
11:43 <+asicdog> !rain brah
11:43 <+defaced> haha
11:43 <+cryptoclub> Thanks for hosting the AMA, it was fun :simple_smile:
11:43 <+aaltc> Thanks for joining us