[4:12:47 PM] Maddie: Oh, also, I thought Arlen wasn't allowed to have minions?
[4:13:04 PM] Maddie: well, none of us are except for the ones that the magic theory students are making
[4:13:48 PM] Shaun Perry: We discussed that.
[4:13:58 PM] Ben: Mhm. It was just a misunderstanding.
[4:14:02 PM] Shaun Perry: It won't be mentioned.
[4:14:03 PM] Shaun Perry: again.
[4:14:05 PM] Maddie: (speaking of which, why exactly did Jason make that bird of his explode? I mean, I didn't think it was so cheaply replaced)
[4:14:13 PM] Shaun Perry: Justin.
[4:14:18 PM] Maddie: yeah
[4:15:01 PM] Shaun Perry: He needed a getaway and thought that Hela was going to try to kill him now too. Well, out of that we did get that scene in Justin's lab.
[4:15:17 PM] Maddie: ...how did the bird exploding give him a getaway
[4:15:37 PM] Shaun Perry: it made a very bright flash of light.
[4:16:00 PM] Maddie: Hm.
[4:17:08 PM] Maddie: Still, I'm surprised that Justin can make things so cheaply and quickly. The end products can't be very good if he can churn them out in less than a day, right? Especially since he's still learning.
[4:18:07 PM] Shaun Perry: Justin's been working on his Magitech for a while. He's the equivalent of a Junior and he started working on Magitech in his first year.
[4:19:00 PM] Maddie: So he has two years experience? Still doesn't seem like enough time for that, especially since IIRC he mentioned that he hadn't tried making fingers before
[4:19:43 PM] Shaun Perry: Yes, well, I'm proceeding.
[4:19:56 PM] taco: Hello all, now on an actual computer
[4:20:02 PM] Maddie: Hi taco!
[4:20:07 PM] Ben: Taco cat
[4:20:09 PM] taco: going to be playing starbound's new update so thank christ I ain't gotta lissen to y'all
[4:20:10 PM] taco: :P
[4:20:33 PM] taco: uh also I'm just grateful Justin let Hela get away with biting Arlen's fingers off after Arlen tried to murder her.
[4:21:10 PM] Ben: I've actually been telling that story to all my other RP homies
[4:21:15 PM] Shaun Perry: yeah, Justin's in no hurry to force the issue - he's more concerned about his magitech.
[4:21:44 PM] Ben: I don't mind, really. But I've never left an RP for a day and come back to a student biting another student's fingers off before.
[4:21:45 PM] taco: Hey, Hela gave him a warning!
[4:21:56 PM] Maddie: and she didn't even take off his whole hand!
[4:22:01 PM] Maddie: which she said she'd do
[4:22:39 PM] Shaun Perry: In the books that inspire my characters as I think I said - I just woke up - Arlen Westlau has a magitech hand.
[4:22:47 PM] taco: mm nice, publisher?
[4:22:50 PM] taco: editor?
[4:23:02 PM] Shaun Perry: I'm still working those parts out.
[4:30:55 PM] taco: Al just needs a little more sleuthing and he can out Arlen as a nazi
[4:31:01 PM] taco: or at least like doxx him or w/e
[4:31:34 PM] Maddie: not sure sleuthing is even necessary, the guy seems about as subtle as a corpse flower's scent
[4:31:46 PM] taco: true
[4:32:00 PM] taco: and given the nature of tumblr he barely needs any actual evidence
[4:32:22 PM] Maddie: well, i'm sure that he has a moral restriction wrt evidence
[4:59:14 PM] Shaun Perry: Yeah, Arlen is not the least bit subtle. His reaction to any call out posts or messages to him would amount to; "come at me and I'll kill all of you!!"
[4:59:46 PM] taco: Al can no-sell harder than even Hela
[4:59:55 PM] Maddie: ...that combined with a murder attempt on another student, plus the mental breakdown in the office, would get him admitted to a hospital, wouldn't it?
[5:01:03 PM] taco: same reason that Hela got away with biting his fingers off
[5:01:05 PM] taco: no faculty saw it
[5:01:32 PM] Maddie: I thought that that happened before Kleiss went off to the ceiling?
[5:01:36 PM] Maddie: but ok
[5:03:05 PM] Shaun Perry: Seems Arlen might just be kinda wimpy. That or he picks his fights really poorly.
[5:03:32 PM] taco: He's a Nazi whose powers are hard-countered by the chosen guardians of the Jewish people
[5:03:37 PM] taco: sounds perfect to me
[5:03:59 PM] Shaun Perry: yeah, that does sound rather fitting.
[5:37:08 PM] Ben: Whooooaaa! I never even noticed that! That's one cool touch!
[8:07:35 PM] Maddie: if Arlen's smoke can be smelled by other characters in the gym, isn't he putting everyone else there in danger?
[8:07:40 PM] Maddie: I mean it is toxic smoke
[8:08:08 PM] taco: sounds like he just won another whack
[8:08:19 PM] *** taco added Critical Danking ***
[8:09:07 PM] Shaun Perry: Technically then Arlen cannot even fight.
[8:09:22 PM] Maddie: seems reasonable
[8:09:47 PM] Maddie: if letting him fight puts bystanders at risk of cancer or whatever
[8:10:09 PM] taco: oh man its a shame arlen is at a disadvantage
[8:10:11 PM] Maddie: I mean, he did vent cigarette smoke at someone casually
[8:10:27 PM] Maddie: and that seems to be his lowest setting
[8:10:52 PM] Maddie: it's still something that would get him in trouble from schools, considering anti-smoking laws
[8:12:08 PM] Shaun Perry: So, what, does the character just exist for everyone else to take potshots at until he snaps and then gets No Holds Barred Beatdowned?
[8:12:20 PM] Shaun Perry: I mean he's a repulsive character I won't deny it.
[8:12:26 PM] Maddie: No
[8:12:33 PM] Maddie: He should just have to exist as the character you made him.
[8:12:41 PM] Maddie: Therefore his powers and actions have consequences
[8:12:59 PM] Maddie: It wouldn't make sense for him to get a Get Out Of Jail Free card
[8:13:11 PM] taco: [8:12 PM] Shaun Perry:

<<< So, what, does the character just exist for everyone else to take potshots at until he snaps and then gets No Holds Barred Beatdowned?
I mean he's a repulsive character I won't deny it.poor victimized nazi
[8:13:12 PM] taco: yes
[8:13:14 PM] taco: fuck off
[8:13:36 PM] Maddie: And really, people haven't been taking potshots out of the blue
[8:13:46 PM] Maddie: inasfar as I can tell it's been because of his actions
[8:14:16 PM] Ben: Uh yeah
[8:14:33 PM] Maddie: it's not like they're bullying him for being the one weird kid
[8:14:37 PM] Ben: You can't make a dude who is literally a nazi and have him not be universally disliked
[8:14:42 PM] Maddie: they are dissing him because he is an asshole
[8:14:46 PM] Shaun Perry: I acknowledge that.
[8:14:47 PM] Maddie: and full of himself
[8:14:51 PM] taco: My friend Katherine put up this great post awhile back maybe I can find it
[8:15:00 PM] Ben: Ah, so what's the problem?
[8:15:24 PM] Shaun Perry: Is mockermaddie a co-gm?
[8:15:31 PM] Maddie: Nope!
[8:15:32 PM] Ben: Yeah.
[8:15:35 PM] Ben: No?
[8:15:36 PM] Maddie: Oh, am I?
[8:15:38 PM] Maddie: You never told me.
[8:15:49 PM] taco: SHE IS NOW
[8:15:49 PM] Ben: You aaid you wanted to be co-GM
[8:15:49 PM] Maddie: Well alright I suppose I am then!
[8:15:51 PM] Ben: Oh.
[8:15:52 PM] taco: it's Karrin Blue
[8:15:55 PM] Maddie: Yes, you never replied to me on that
[8:16:04 PM] Ben: Oh. Sorry, I meant to.
[8:16:07 PM] Maddie: No problem!
[8:16:18 PM] Maddie: In that case: yes I am a co-GM, Nick!
[8:16:28 PM] sgtpendulum: LOL
[8:16:29 PM] Ben: See, this is why I have co-GMs. Like I said, I'm terrible at remembering things
[8:16:33 PM] Shaun Perry: great golly golly bucky ducky.
[8:16:39 PM] Maddie: ...what now?
[8:16:49 PM] Shaun Perry: Never mind.
[8:16:57 PM] Ben: I'm terrible at remembering things.
[8:17:02 PM] taco: he's having an aneurysm that he has to kowtow to you
[8:17:04 PM] Ben: Like a goldfish, I am.
[8:17:05 PM] taco: nbd
[8:17:07 PM] Maddie: Well, there's no harm done
[8:17:31 PM] Ben: Anywho, what seems to be the problem? We can figure something out.
[8:17:44 PM] Ben: Are you unhappy because Arlen isn't well liked IC?
[8:17:55 PM] Shaun Perry: No. I'm glad he's disliked.
[8:18:01 PM] Ben: Ah, good.
[8:18:16 PM] Shaun Perry: What I'm not glad about is the attempt to make him a Butt Monkey.
[8:18:16 PM] taco: let's just, uh... okay, rolled a d20... consult the table... ah: Nazi.
[8:18:33 PM] Ben: Then what's the issue? I bet dollars to donuts I can fix it?
[8:18:43 PM | Removed 8:19:01 PM] Ben: This message has been removed.
[8:18:44 PM] Maddie: So... what were you expecting him to be?
[8:18:51 PM] Maddie: Because he's pretty ridiculous, all things considered
[8:18:53 PM] taco: also there are a shitload of israeli folk on tvtropes
[8:19:05 PM] Shaun Perry: ...A serious antagonistic character...
[8:19:05 PM] Ben: Well, he told me Arlen will stop being a nazi eventually.
[8:19:17 PM] Maddie: it's hard to take someone seriously when they have the thought 'maybe we need a leader with a goose step in his form'
[8:19:26 PM] taco: I can name 3 people off the top of my head whove said "sorry, guys, can't RP for awhile, going off to the IDF so that PALESTINE WON'T MURDER US ALL."
[8:19:51 PM] taco: Yeah I'mma be honest it's because we can't take him seriously
[8:20:01 PM] Ben: Wait people are leaving because of Arlen?
[8:20:05 PM] Maddie: Compared to the real Nazis he comes off as
[8:20:06 PM] Maddie: well
[8:20:07 PM] Maddie: a joke.
[8:20:11 PM] taco: also either he is or you are a fucking dingus in a fight
[8:20:17 PM] Ben: That's most teenage Neo Nazis
[8:20:20 PM] Maddie: and not in the same way that say, der fuhrer's face, is a joke about Nazi
[8:20:22 PM] taco: party synergy lets Arlen get no-sold like a bitch
[8:20:34 PM] Ben: Hey hey can we not name call?
[8:21:15 PM] taco: am i wrong tho
[8:21:23 PM] sgtpendulum: Ben, lemme explain this to ya for this situation
[8:21:29 PM] Ben: Alright.
[8:21:48 PM] sgtpendulum: TLDR Nick has already got a bad reputation among the RP community for his poor RP skills in the past
[8:22:02 PM] Shaun Perry: I've been trying to improve.
[8:22:03 PM] Ben: Okay.
[8:22:18 PM] Ben: That's good. I remember when I was in the exact same boat.
[8:22:18 PM] sgtpendulum: And numerous players can give numerous testimonies to his actions
[8:22:37 PM] Ben: Yeah...I remember when I wasn't very good.
[8:22:54 PM] sgtpendulum: not just the RP skills but also his behaviour OOC
[8:23:03 PM] sgtpendulum: I know nick is trying to improve
[8:23:04 PM] taco: I'm one of Troyandhawk's big supporters because of his marked improvement, this is 100% possible.
[8:23:05 PM] Ben: I never played a nazi, of course. Most of my dudes were more like LOLSORANDUMB
[8:23:28 PM] Ben: Okay, so Nick, it seems like a lot of people have a beef with you.
[8:23:44 PM] Ben: Sounds like this is a good chance for you to improve a lot, huh?
[8:23:44 PM] Shaun Perry: I have been trying to improve. Nobody it seems gives me a chance.
[8:23:49 PM] Maddie: Dude
[8:23:53 PM] Maddie: You had a chance at the start of the RP
[8:24:04 PM] Ben: Nick, baby! We're giving you a chance now!
[8:24:11 PM] taco: you actually say that in almost every RP
[8:24:13 PM] Maddie: None of us have gotten in your way or said that you couldn't have X character.
[8:24:22 PM] Maddie: This is entirely a result of your actions
[8:24:25 PM] Maddie: In this RP.
[8:24:28 PM] Ben: Hm...Do you guys like Matt?
[8:24:35 PM] Ben: I like Matt.
[8:24:45 PM] Ben: The character.
[8:25:16 PM] Maddie: I have never played with you before, so I came into this largely blind.
[8:25:37 PM] Shaun Perry: So, taco, are you saying I still suck?
[8:25:41 PM] Ben: Nick, I reckon I know your problem.
[8:25:50 PM] Ben: You take criticism as an insult.
[8:26:34 PM] Ben: So right now you have a decision to make. You can either listen to everyone here tell you how you can improve. It might hurt, but it will help you a lot.
[8:26:43 PM] Shaun Perry: Alright, I will.
[8:26:44 PM] Ben: Or ignore it, and continue as you are.
[8:26:47 PM] Ben: Good.
[8:27:06 PM] Ben: I need to drive home. The mrs is cooking souvlaki!
[8:27:19 PM] sgtpendulum: yeah, but on the other hand, we should keep insult to the minimum and try to serve criticism as raw as possible
[8:27:54 PM] Ben: Alright. But sometimes criticism can feel like an insult.
[8:28:07 PM] Ben: Just because it hurts doesn't mean you can ignore it.
[8:28:27 PM] Ben: Anyhow. So you promise to listen and not wuss out?
[8:28:28 PM] Maddie: Yes but you can try to discern whether it was meant to be insulting and hurtful.
[8:28:33 PM] Maddie: Rather than just blunt.
[8:28:35 PM] Shaun Perry: Yes.
[8:28:51 PM] Ben: Pretend you're being jumped in in a gang. I'm leaving for real now. Peace.
[8:29:00 PM] Maddie: Alright, in that case the first thing that comes to mind is that Antoin is cartoonishly edgy.
[8:29:24 PM] Maddie: Also, it is very very hard to make 'master manipulator' characters work, especially in a format where everyone can see that that's what he's meant to be.
[8:29:55 PM] Shaun Perry: Alright, I'll tone down Antoin's liking for danger.
[8:30:31 PM] Maddie: Yeah, some of his lines and thoughts read like badfic.
[8:30:40 PM] sgtpendulum: and another thing, you have the most characters out of any of us
[8:30:43 PM] sgtpendulum: you have 4
[8:31:04 PM] sgtpendulum: why don't you just cut them down and focus on giving your characters more personality and quirks
[8:31:32 PM] sgtpendulum: because for now, I can only remember Arlen, for obvious reasons, and Justin, for saving Arlen
[8:31:36 PM] Maddie: It's not just the liking for danger, it's - the whole idea of him. That he's this one guy who's not fooled by larger society or whatever.
[8:31:40 PM] sgtpendulum: the rest I literally forget
[8:31:49 PM] Maddie: I can remember Matthew because he's an Emiya Shirou knockoff.
[8:32:32 PM] Shaun Perry: Uh, that's the thing - early on in his character creation process I got rid of that problem. For example, dead dad is not nearly as dead as he seems.
[8:32:47 PM] Maddie: ...still a Shirou knockoff
[8:33:07 PM] Maddie: his powers, for one thing
[8:33:41 PM] taco: Antoin is also a master manipulator in the same way vriska serket is
[8:33:41 PM] sgtpendulum: that don't mean you can't get inspired by something
[8:33:51 PM] taco: blunt force control setup instead of actual like manipulation
[8:33:51 PM] Maddie: No, of course not!
[8:33:52 PM] sgtpendulum: just don't rip off wholesale
[8:34:05 PM] Maddie: Adrienne's powers come from Sailor Venus
[8:34:11 PM] taco: also the name kyrio
[8:34:19 PM] taco: gundam 00 had good design and little else
[8:34:20 PM] Maddie: Yeah, it seems like he's very Vriska.
[8:34:30 PM] Shaun Perry: I didn't rip off wholesale.
[8:34:34 PM] taco: there was that great moment where the main character just muttered "gundam" and explode
[8:34:44 PM] Maddie: "You feel amiable to me now!" rather than "I am going to act nice to this person and seem friendly and reasonable"
[8:35:09 PM] sgtpendulum: and part of Felicidad's backstory came from Good Kid MAAD City, her girlfriend's name is even Sherane
[8:35:25 PM] taco: One suggestion from me is that I found fucking with people is easier if your character has no internal monologue
[8:35:39 PM] Critical Danking: but that's like 90% of what people write
[8:35:57 PM] Maddie: Well, never said it was easier to write
[8:36:02 PM] Maddie: Just easier to pull off that kind of character
[8:36:12 PM] Shaun Perry: thanks Taco.
[8:36:13 PM] Critical Danking: no internal monologue part I meant
[8:36:20 PM] Shaun Perry: I'll cut out internal monologue from Antoin.
[8:36:24 PM] taco: that or
[8:36:29 PM] taco: play it like you wanna help folks
[8:37:01 PM] Maddie: Yeah, exactly. A good villain shouldn't be spotted until the last second.
[8:37:16 PM] Maddie: well, a manipulator type, anyways
[8:37:21 PM] Shaun Perry: Alright.
[8:37:25 PM] Shaun Perry: I've got it.
[8:37:31 PM] Maddie: The 'blow everything up because I AM AS A GOD' type generally should be spotted fairly quicly
[8:37:55 PM] Shaun Perry: Do you guys think Justin is a villain?
[8:38:12 PM] Maddie: ...Mostly I don't think anything of him, he doesn't seem to have much personality
[8:38:14 PM] sgtpendulum: no, because he's also kinda forgettable too
[8:38:21 PM] taco: he is complicit
[8:38:26 PM] sgtpendulum: which brings us back to quality over quantity
[8:38:28 PM] Maddie: He's kind of there
[8:38:42 PM] taco: Hela actually appreciates Justin because the idiot made her and Arlen square
[8:38:44 PM] Maddie: aaand that's about all I can say on the matter.
[8:39:16 PM] Maddie: Adrienne thinks he's a weirdo who blew up his own construct for no reason, and is rather hoping that he doesn't think she's responsible for that.
[8:39:18 PM] Shaun Perry: I've got some more plans for him - most of the reason he just seems there is because I've tried to set him up to interact with people, but it seemed he was overlooked.
[8:39:38 PM] Maddie: Well, stuff happens. Improvisation is an important skill in this sort of thing.
[8:39:46 PM] taco: does Final Fantasy still exist in this setting?
[8:40:13 PM] taco: because the use of the term "magitech" gains a lot of weight if the answer is yes.
[8:41:40 PM] Maddie: I assumed that since FMA does, so does that
[8:41:59 PM] Shaun Perry: Considering what Magitech is known for in Final Fantasy...
[8:42:59 PM] taco: also that he just names his shit after a videogame
[8:43:18 PM] Shaun Perry: well, he is a nerd.
[8:44:39 PM] Maddie: Well, it seems a bit like calling your magic potions plasmids, or something
[8:45:00 PM] Shaun Perry: So should I call his stuff something else?
[8:45:09 PM] *** Maddie shrugs ***
[8:45:10 PM] Shaun Perry: Its not exactly a well known reference.
[8:45:35 PM] Maddie: Well, it's the trope namer
[8:46:15 PM] Maddie: I suppose you could just make it clearer that he's a nerd about Final Fantasy or something
[8:46:29 PM] Maddie: Fannish pursuits can help develop a character.
[8:49:10 PM] Shaun Perry: He's shown trying to create a version of a villain from Teen Titans in his lab class. Namely, a small version of Kardiak.
[8:49:17 PM] Maddie: Ah, is that what he's doing.
[8:51:07 PM] Shaun Perry: it probably won't be the most popular construct, but Justin enjoys experimenting - for him, that he made a biorobotic heart is what is important.
[8:51:34 PM] Maddie: Buuut that's not really what he's doing, is it?
[8:51:40 PM] Maddie: The heart's already there
[8:51:44 PM] Maddie: He's making a construct around it.
[8:51:46 PM] Shaun Perry: Yeah, I guess.
[9:02:53 PM] Shaun Perry: Also, on Matt being a "rip off", if he was, I'd have kept Kyrio dead, made him an archer, and gave him a Tsundere, a Servant and other such things.
[9:03:35 PM] Maddie: That's not what I meant. I was referring to powers, general backstory, and apparent personality
[9:03:50 PM] Maddie: As some of those would make no sense in this setting
[9:03:58 PM] Maddie: also no one else knows about the dead dad thing so it doesn't figure.
[9:05:35 PM] Shaun Perry: Okay, powers wise I can see your point, but personality wise he has no death-wish for atonement - his view on that is actually 180 from Shirou; "Once you die, that's that. Don't throw your life away for honour or your own guilt."
[9:05:49 PM] Critical Danking: is this really important?
[9:05:56 PM] Maddie: Not really, I don't think.