TruePlayer Round Table #1

15:01 DrRhoop: Alright, everyone, welcome aboard to the first #trueplayer roundtable! ^_^ Good to have you all here
15:01 fanboy has joined
15:02 mandeer has changed mode: +v ADallday
15:02 DrRhoop: Since its the first time, we arent completely sold on any one particular way to proceed, I am just gonna go through a couple of key concepts, and then people can add input after
15:02 ADallday: =E
15:02 mandeer has changed mode: +v joshua_tree
15:02 mandeer has changed mode: +v LifeMask
15:02 mandeer has changed mode: +v fanboy
15:02 Ascor: Alright my dear. I am back with a pot of tea ^.
15:02 DrRhoop: then, anyone who in particular has something to say, or questions can go on for a bit after
15:02 DrRhoop: everyone clear?
15:02 mandeer: sounds good
15:02 Ascor: yup
15:02 aypez: sounds good
15:02 ADallday: =E
15:03 DutchPUA: k
15:03 TheDukeDevlin: =E
15:03 Lysergic_: =R
15:03 DrRhoop: K
15:03 DrRhoop: So the first concept that I get from the first chapter is to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SELLING
15:03 Ascor: and to have strong beliefs that what you are selling is good.
15:04 DrRhoop: coupled with the fact that sales (and pickup) is about SELLING EMOTIONS
15:04 DrRhoop: so the ovious application here, is to know yourself, and how you can present things
15:05 DrRhoop: you can sell yourself as a funny person, make them laugh
15:05 TheDukeDevlin: This was a game-changing idea for me, the idea that in your sarges you're offering values and emotions.  I see too many people opening hundreds of sets, and being stuck in forgettable polite conversation, because they aren't presenting, or building on, any emotions or values. [I suppose one could argue that some emotions are values.]
15:05 DrRhoop: or convey seriousness, and get someone to open up conversation on deeper things
15:05 mandeer: i think an interesting connotation of Ascor's point is that it necessarily means to not sell things you don't believe in
15:05 Lysergic_: same with me duke
15:05 Ascor: suddenly a wall of text
15:06 legendary_ has joined
15:06 mandeer has changed mode: +v legendary_
15:06 Ascor: I think
15:06 Ascor: the whole thing about "inner game"
15:06 Lysergic_: yeah if on the part about "selling emotions/feelings" you can recall the part about the mercedes, where he goes to the country club bar and sells them by getting them to use their imagination, and actually smell the car and feel the leather and everything, to imagine driving it around and then goes on to say that they aren't stupid enough to believe the gas crisis will continue long enough for it to even matter, "obviously"
15:06 Ascor: is just "Strong beliefs in what you're selling and being congruent" re-phrased.
15:07 TheDukeDevlin: I really like what you're saying Ascor; you have to know what values you value in regards to your own character, as well as the values you want to present to other people. And just identifying those is a huge parte of inner game, to me.
15:07 DrRhoop: Ascor: exactly, the more strongly you identify with what you are saying/being in yourself, the more you will be able to "sell yourself"
15:07 mandeer: the interesting thing to me about selling feelings in the context of pickup
15:07 aypez: to expand on what Lysergic_ said, one quote from the book was "What you do is induce a wanton buying state and show them the product". Anyone have any ideas to relate a 'wanton buying state' more specifically to pickup?
15:08 joshua_tree: where was that quote?
15:08 Ascor: You need to show them that you can "enhance their lifes" with what you are offering
15:08 mandeer: is that, as he says, the better you know your product, the better you will sell it
15:08 aypez: joshua_tree: p3
15:08 Lysergic_: well, in speed seduction, Ross uses the state of indulgence/desire
15:08 Lysergic_: aypez ^
15:08 Lysergic_: as one example
15:08 DrRhoop: A rather cliched example is YOLO
15:08 mandeer: since the feelings you share with someone are tied to your emotional health and your ability to express your emotions
15:08 joshua_tree: carpe diem
15:08 DrRhoop: getting someone receptive to the idea of living in the moment
15:09 TheDukeDevlin: The phrase "wanton buying state," brings to mind themes like "Cutting lose,"  "Getting what you want,"  "Doing something for YOU for a change."
15:09 mandeer: it sort of necessitates being familiar with your own emotional expression. in other words not suppressing them
15:09 DrRhoop: so that it isnt necessary to worry about any doubts she might normally have about sleeping with a stranger, she is just there to have fun
15:09 TheDukeDevlin: You can communicate and subcommunicate, "Girl, you work hard, you go to school all fuckin' day, here's your chance to really let yourself be free and have some fuckin' fun,"  if that's a value you value and want to present in your sarges
15:10 legendary_: ^
15:10 Lysergic_: yeah, so basically, if you stack those states on top of each other, from "living in the moment right now", "indulgence", and then "fuck it you only live once"
15:10 joshua_tree: and then it's the "show them the product portion"
15:10 Lysergic_: you have a sequence built for seduction
15:10 Lysergic_: by "selling states"
15:10 Lysergic_: or feelings
15:11 Ascor: feels
15:11 Lysergic_: thanks for the correction ascor lol
15:12 TheDukeDevlin: By the way, I'd like to interject, I feel that's one reason certain PUA methods just "don't work," for some people;  they're selling values that the aspiring-PUA themselves does not value
15:12 Lysergic_: what do you mean?
15:12 Lysergic_: like an example i should say
15:12 DutchPUA: For example, fuzzy hats.
15:12 aypez: TheDukeDevlin: Like games, tricks?
15:12 joshua_tree: and, are all those methods selling feels, or are they just trying to sell the product they think they're selling
15:13 joshua_tree: like where he says :Career management for women," "We sell piece of mind." etc.
15:13 mandeer: TheDukeDevlin: agree completely.  i can't do shit like the cube or U-shape/C-shape
15:13 TheDukeDevlin: One thing that comes to mind is the "icy alpha male" style of game. If you yourself don't value being an icy "outcome independent" alpha male or whatever, obviously using those methods won't work for you
15:13 mandeer: it just makes me feel bad
15:13 mandeer: your example is better
15:14 ADallday: well dook, thing with that is
15:14 Lysergic_: i think the objective is to get them into an emotional state and then offer them the product at the right time so it's as if it's going to give them that feeling for the rest of their life
15:14 DrRhoop has left IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:14 ADallday: works
15:14 ADallday: not for u
15:14 ADallday: but for them
15:14 TheDukeDevlin: On the other hand, some dudes excell at the oldschool "Entertaining groups with the cube and magic tricks" stuff, because they value being the life of the party and want that style of game
15:14 ADallday: they to are selling you a product
15:14 fanboy: he mentions you've got to sell something you believe in after all
15:14 ADallday: too*
15:14 LifeMask: so to summarise what you're all saying, you surprisingly have to be genuine and congruent :O
15:14 ADallday: and by inducing a feeling of
15:14 aypez: I'd go as far as saying that with some oldschool PUA stuff, you end up hiding behind your 'products'.
15:14 ADallday: yeah "if i learn this il b boss"
15:14 Said|Laryngitis is now known as Said|BeCongruent
15:14 aypez: And not revealing your true face.
15:15 ADallday: they'll always have ppl coming in wanting their services
15:15 ADallday: its like
15:15 ADallday: this thing i went to
15:15 ADallday: for one of my fraternity brothers
15:15 Lysergic_: TheDukeDevlin, about the icy alpha male thing, couldn't agree more
15:15 TheDukeDevlin: More or less LifeMask, although one could argue that one can "become" congruent to different ideas through their internal represnetations and stuff. But that's a topic for another.... month, rofl
15:15 ADallday: basically it was a pyramid scheme
15:15 TheDukeDevlin: aypez: That's a very good point
15:16 ADallday: built on persuasion and marketing to get their sales
15:16 ADallday: they invited ppl to sell their product
15:16 aypez: On p6 and 7, there's a nice bit about 'canned ritual approaches', I found it quite relevant to pickup.
15:16 ADallday: and essentially turned them into robots while they were the factory
15:16 ADallday: with the platform of
15:16 ADallday: "do you want to make money"
15:16 ADallday: "if so then follow this step by step guideline to the letter"
15:17 ADallday: thats what the PU community is now
15:17 ADallday: a web of persuasion and marketing
15:17 fanboy: what about the importance of a roadmap?
15:17 fanboy: one of the key points was this
15:17 Ascor: The thing is that most people here in pickup adapted the "Be yourself and be vulnerable" because it is easy to be congruent in yourself. You have higher chances of valuing yourself than valuing doing magic tricks and being the life of the party.
15:17 fanboy: 'they had a way of knowing where to start, and a way of knowing when they were done'
15:17 mandeer: i think what's interesting about ADallday's anecdote and the need for congruency is that you can't build a scam without value.  Scientology gives a certain amount of value to people, and so they believe in it.  The form and intensity of the belief is what i think gets manipulated.
15:18 mrinferno has joined
15:18 Lysergic_: aypez, "with some oldschool PUA stuff, you end up hiding behind your 'products'"
15:18 mandeer has changed mode: +v mrinferno
15:18 Lysergic_: such a good point
15:18 TheDukeDevlin: I think you can draw a line between "having a road map," and having your entire conversations be canned
15:18 TheDukeDevlin: Like, we all *know* how a "regular" sarge "goes"
15:18 Lysergic_: pretty much hits the nail on the head
15:18 ADallday: pretty much deer
15:18 mandeer: also fanboy, a roadmap serves you until you know the terrain
15:19 mandeer: there's nothing like driving around a city you've lived in for a decade
15:19 fanboy: very true
15:19 LifeMask: what are you guys even talking about at this point?
15:20 LifeMask: It seems like everyone's saying the same thing in different ways.
15:20 TheDukeDevlin: I heard a mainstream pua give a good analog for canned material:  Its like buying a 300 CC bike, and then wishing you bought a 600 CC
15:20 TheDukeDevlin: LifeMask: Such is life :P
15:20 Lysergic_: the map is not the territory, right?
15:20 TheDukeDevlin: OK so, what did the book talk about after Values?
15:20 Ascor: We're not structured atm
15:20 mandeer has changed mode: +v Said|BeCongruent
15:21 Lysergic_: well Rhoop started us off and now he's gone
15:21 TheDukeDevlin: Rhoop is such a pick-up artist, he shows up, gets us all horny and then leaves
15:21 mandeer: anybody want to intro the second chapter as a topic?
15:22 TheDukeDevlin: I like this part in Chapter 2 where he says "DEMONSTRATE UNDERSTANDING," rather than just saying "I understand"
15:22 fanboy: 'Your customer, or your client, has all the information you need to help them'
15:22 joshua_tree: Let me repeat that—DEMONSTRATE UNDERSTANDING
15:22 fanboy: perplexes me
15:22 joshua_tree: and behaviorally
15:22 Said|BeCongruent: What that means to me is that you show someone how you're connecting in your head what they told you. Show them that you are attempting to see their side.
15:22 Lysergic_: how about the fact that you have to find out what the feeling is that they want in the first place
15:22 Lysergic_: before selling it to them
15:23 Lysergic_: it can't be just any good feeling, but looking for the one that they already want in their own minds
15:23 LifeMask: ya, Said|BeCongruent
15:23 LifeMask: "explain it in your own words"
15:23 Said|BeCongruent: Exactly, I'd explain in my words what I believe you're telling me
15:23 fanboy: Lysergic_: so make sure there is an element of discovery in any pickup
15:23 refrigeratorbob: Can someone explain "When people tell you the result they want, a lot of times they tell you how to get it, not what the result it"
15:23 TheDukeDevlin: I believe what he's getting at, is that we all know "what it would take" to get us to buy something
15:23 joshua_tree: I just realized how short of a chapter this is, but I basically highlighted everything because it's so condensed and important
15:23 mandeer: Chapter 2 is the Selling Process, and it's basically about rapport, from my perspective
15:24 fanboy: refrigeratorbob: hah yes, I had to reread that. I didnt get that either
15:24 mandeer: refrigeratorbob: someone might want their car to not leak oil, but they tell you to replace the filter
15:24 Ascor: What is rapport then?
15:24 mandeer: when the filter may not be the problem
15:25 Said|BeCongruent: So what we need to make sure then is that we see the big picture that the person we're talking to has in their head
15:25 Said|BeCongruent: Dig for information
15:25 Said|BeCongruent: Then use that information to make a mutually beneficial conclusion?
15:25 TheDukeDevlin: fanboy: Like if I were trying to sell you a book, I'd have to figure out what it would take to make you buy a book;  it goes hand in hand with values, like if I asked you how you know when you found a good book you want to buy, and you say "Well, it needs to be under 20 dollars, in good condition, and the content needs to be good and easy to read"
15:25 mandeer: i don't know if we need to dig for information, but a big thing about NLP is that language has a surface structure that represents a deep structure
15:26 Said|BeCongruent: Well we'd at least need to know that there's a rabbit hole behind every sentance
15:26 Lysergic_: ascor: a close and harmonious relationship in which two or more people understand each other’s feelings and ideas, and can communicate well
15:26 fanboy: hmm okay
15:26 mandeer: Said|BeCongruent: a good example of this is how in a group of friends, you have inside jokes that have context and meaning that has nothing to do with the words.  you could say to your friend "fuck off" and it means that you care about him if he understands it that way
15:26 Lysergic_: ledochowski's definition lol
15:27 TheDukeDevlin: Said|BeCongruent:  Thats true
15:27 ADallday: hmmm
15:27 mandeer: Lysergic_: you think "congruency between people" is a good shorthand for rapport?
15:27 TheDukeDevlin: I view rapport as a feeling of same-pageness.
15:27 ADallday: wait hold up
15:27 Lysergic_: i suppose
15:27 ADallday: cuz
15:27 ADallday: we are all
15:27 ADallday: getting lost
15:27 ADallday: in this clusterfuck
15:27 Lysergic_: i think we could come up with a better short hand definition
15:27 Lysergic_: typing
15:27 Lysergic_: like this
15:27 Lysergic_: doesn't help
15:27 mrinferno: !
15:27 Lysergic_: lol
15:28 ADallday: it helps grab your attention
15:28 ADallday: no?
15:28 Said|BeCongruent: yes
15:28 Said|BeCongruent: it does
15:28 mrinferno: thats how xmp used to type, how dare you.
15:28 mrinferno: pours one out for the dead homey.
15:28 ADallday: aight can we at least
15:28 ADallday: develop a better platform
15:28 ADallday: like no more than 2 ppl talking at a time
15:28 mandeer: we're working out the kinks
15:28 ADallday: and if other want to talk
15:29 fanboy: I think we all submit quotes frmo the book before hand and then discuss those
15:29 LifeMask: i suggested that :)
15:29 ADallday: thats a good one
15:29 ADallday: another good one is
15:29 mandeer: let's discuss this when we're done with book discussion
15:29 TheDukeDevlin: I agree with fanboy LifeMask and ADallday, we get quotes ready, and then 2 at a time go at it
15:29 ADallday: questins first discussion after
15:29 Said|BeCongruent: passes the conch
15:29 Said|BeCongruent is now known as Said|
15:29 ADallday: ^
15:29 LifeMask: would probably stop everyone from saying the same thing in different words for a good 20 mins
15:29 Lysergic_: how do we choose who talks about the quotes?
15:30 Lysergic_: i'm sure more than 2 people would want to talk about it
15:30 TheDukeDevlin: LifeMask: welcome to the seudction community lol
15:30 mrinferno: is reminded of the early days of r/pickup clusterfuck round tables.
15:30 Lysergic_: the problem is the threads that come up while relating the topics/ideas to pickup
15:30 LifeMask: honestly i think those multi-user notepads are the best medium to use
15:30 Lysergic_: from what i can see
15:30 ADallday: we could set up a system where everyone has 3 cards
15:30 mandeer: i think the other interesting thing he says in chapter 2 is " Your customer, or your client, has all the information you need to help them. They will give it to you. You don't have to go inside your head to figure out what's going on. If you do, you just made the second fatal mistake of any professional com- municator."
15:30 LifeMask: http://piratepad.net/243PPvFI5Z
15:30 LifeMask: something like that
15:30 ADallday: to interject u use a card and when ure out u dont interject into the convo
15:31 LifeMask: where you can have points of discussions, people can write their thoughts and others can respond to it
15:31 LifeMask: have it open for the whole week or w/e
15:31 Lysergic_: that's a classic ericksonian belief
15:31 Lysergic_: the client has all of the information they need to fix their problem
15:31 aypez: mandeer: there's also a bit on chap1 about that - "when people tell you the result they want, a lot of the times they tell you how to get it, not what the result is" p10/11
15:31 fanboy: mandeer: but ive seen people in pickup proud of the fact they can internalise what they are doing
15:31 Lysergic_: in this case, to sell themselves
15:32 Ascor: I love how some people are discussing methods to discuss and others just relentlessly carry on with discussing PE
15:32 TheDukeDevlin: LifeMask: That's a brilliant idea
15:32 fanboy: and I dont think there is anything wrong with a bit of internalising..surely it helps produce a feedback loop
15:32 TheDukeDevlin: Honestly, this is our first time doing it its okay to spend time hashing out the idea of how we want to do this
15:32 dare_ious: mandeer: like the lady that sold house with the creaking door. The external information was already there.
15:32 mandeer: fanboy: well, he's talking specifically in a sales context, so i think there's a little more leeway in the context of pickup
15:32 aypez: also last paragraph of chapter 1 is really good.
15:33 Lysergic_: what if we made an outline format of all the quotes from the book, on piratepad, and just all wrote our thoughts about it underneath the quotes in an outline format?
15:33 fanboy: ^^ I like
15:33 LifeMask: full of good ideas
15:33 TheDukeDevlin: I agree with Lysergic_
15:33 mandeer: since the object you're selling [i know you sell feelings] is yourself and your internal life
15:33 LifeMask: i think the mods like the channel-structure though
15:33 joshua_tree: aypez: but the last paragraph only says  "You have to be congruent." :(
15:33 aypez: my point stands.
15:33 aypez: ;D
15:33 Lysergic_: i'm sure we could stay organized so long as we don't get some trols deleting shit
15:34 aypez: I meant the last two paras then, sorry.
15:34 Lysergic_: trolls*
15:34 Lysergic_: with that format i mean
15:34 TheDukeDevlin: To be honest, I think we can be congruent with *anything* depending on various factors.
15:34 joshua_tree: I like the end of chapter two, especially this quote "Another of the important things you can learn about the selling process isn't only to make the right choice at the choice point, but when, to make it, especially since time and space are relative." I think that is pretty important especially related to pickup
15:34 TheDukeDevlin: But to be honest, the stuff we're doing in sarging is easy to be congruent with.
15:35 joshua_tree: aypez: yeah, i did get that. im too sarcastic o.O
15:35 Lysergic_: took me a minute to figure out what you mean by that but you're definitely right duke lol
15:35 Lysergic_: extremely easy
15:36 TheDukeDevlin: Like, I'd have a harder time being congurent trying to sell a woman 1,000 misprinted bibles than I would proposing she suck my dick
15:36 Lysergic_: LOL
15:36 mandeer: it depends on whether she needs those bibles or not
15:37 Lysergic_: imagine how wonderful you'd feel sucking my dick in comaprison to reading these 1,000 bibles
15:37 refrigeratorbob: now try standing in front of the misprinited bible store
15:37 Said|: Who said anything about reading?
15:37 TheDukeDevlin: Who here likes free stuff? WELL here at church we are giving out 1,000 free bibles.
15:37 mrinferno has left IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
15:38 DutchPUA: no, I hate free stuff
15:38 DutchPUA: almost as much as I hate having fun
15:38 mrinferno has joined
15:38 Ascor: free stuff is the worst
15:38 TheDukeDevlin: Just imagine how little fun you would have with these bibles written in Greek. I bet ya anything if you really think about it, you can imagine how agonizing it would feel to try and translate these bad boys
15:38 mandeer has changed mode: +v mrinferno
15:39 dare_ious: Is it okay to backtrack to Chapter 1? Specifically,
15:39 dare_ious: "You will know here when you've learned something when you can close your eyes and imagine them. And they look like food."
15:39 mandeer: the only other thing i have to bring up about persuasion engineering so far is how interesting the language is
15:39 legendary_ has left IRC (Quit: Leaving)
15:39 mandeer: is it like transcribed from his seminars, or did he write it that way on purpose?
15:39 DutchPUA: it's really like he's talking to you one on one, mandeer
15:39 joshua_tree: i think its written that way on purpose
15:39 fanboy: yeah I was not sure about that..it does warn you at the start
15:40 joshua_tree: "they are written for a purpose"
15:40 fanboy: but sometimes it came off extremely odd, and then a few othertimes it seemed like in your face NLP, i made an *OH YOU* face
15:40 joshua_tree: as NLP and grammar do not necessarily share the same structure
15:40 TheDukeDevlin: its funny how nlp can have an affect on you even when its blatant lol
15:41 fanboy: he often reinforces an idea before he's even presented it, and it seems a bit odd but it works
15:41 mrinferno: nlp is pseudoscience
15:41 Lysergic_: lol duke
15:41 Lysergic_: remember my fb cover? blatant nlp that still fucks with your mind
15:41 joshua_tree: half of the things he says are blatant and in your face
15:41 mandeer: there are a few sentences in particular that i have misplaced that i thought were really good.  one was about dealing with dickheads
15:41 PoultryPants has joined
15:41 TheDukeDevlin: my cock is blatant and in your face
15:41 fanboy: there was a SCIENTIFIC study that showed flattery works, even when the person knows you're not being sincere
15:42 mandeer: the second was about visualizing the person who makes you nervous as food and feeling sorry for them
15:42 LifeMask: I didn't notice much odd grammar
15:42 DutchPUA: will this still be posted as one big log?
15:42 DutchPUA: because it looks like a giant fucking clusterfuck
15:42 mandeer: "I want you to stop . . . and think about somebody that you have to negotiate with, or you have to sell to, or a kind of person, that when they walk in the door a voice inside your head goes, "Oh, shit," something inside of you goes (Grrrrr) and for a moment close your eyes and think of one of those people, because they are going to be your reference point. You will know here when you've learned something when you can close y
15:42 mandeer: our eyes and imagine them. And they look like food. That deep voice always helps, when the client walks in and you look at them and you go, "Poor soul.""
15:42 TheDukeDevlin: The Hypnotic Sales book has a great chapter where somone elicitics the customers Values in regards to buying a house, and the client is like "I *knew* what they were doing , but damn it it worked nad I bought two houses"
15:42 joshua_tree: mandeer: page?
15:43 mandeer: page 8 on the second one
15:43 mandeer: page 10 on the first
15:43 mandeer: i actually blacked out while reading that second one
15:43 dare_ious: mandeer: could you explain the food one, I asked before but no one answered
15:43 DrRhoop has joined
15:43 mandeer: and just sat there after i finished the paragraph
15:43 DutchPUA: oh hey DrRhoop
15:43 DutchPUA: great that you can join us
15:43 mandeer has changed mode: +o DrRhoop
15:43 mandeer has changed mode: +v PoultryPants
15:44 DrRhoop: dont mind me, continue
15:44 mandeer: dare_ious: what do you want explained about it?
15:44 joshua_tree: mandeer: it was that good that you blacked out?
15:44 dare_ious: Why visualize the person as food?
15:45 mandeer: dare_ious: because it means you're higher up on the food chain, and i think a lot of anxiety we have about other animals is vestigial fear of being eaten
15:45 Lysergic_: yeah and if it tastes anywhere near as good as this chicken i'm eating you're gonna go get it
15:45 mandeer: and joshua_tree, i think so.  i felt like i kind of went into a hypnotic state, and i've had less anxiety about people since
15:45 Lysergic_: so long as you imagine yourself as starving in a desert
15:45 PoultryPants has left IRC ()
15:46 dare_ious: Cool, it's clearer now thanks
15:46 joshua_tree: and if you can visualize yourself higher on the food chain, chances are they'll look at you as higher, and thats when you can"sell them the guys' car out in the parking lot"
15:46 DutchPUA: Lysergic_: doesn't that put you in a needy state?
15:47 DutchPUA: THERE ARE TONS OF CUPCAKES I CAN EAT, BUT IM HERE WITH YOU, SUP
15:47 Lysergic_: yeah probably
15:47 Lysergic_: good point
15:47 Lysergic_: alright so jut really good tasting chicken
15:47 mandeer: in any case, i think the discussion is winding down.  does anyone want to continue?  now that we did one of these, we're going to work through the kinks for next time
15:48 joshua_tree: I have a question
15:48 mandeer: so the discussion will be more focused
15:48 mandeer: ok
15:48 joshua_tree: what is the choice point that he talks about
15:48 mandeer: page?
15:48 joshua_tree: hold on
15:48 DrRhoop: its a key thing in hypno and nlp
15:48 joshua_tree: he talks about it at the end of ch 2
15:48 joshua_tree: and he goes on to talk about it more in ch 3
15:48 DrRhoop: choice implies someone elses will in the decision other than your own
15:48 DrRhoop: and ideas are more powerful if the person thinks that they thought of it
15:49 joshua_tree: and then the choice point is just the point where they made/will make the choice?
15:49 joshua_tree: and you want to get them there
15:49 DrRhoop: of if they can excersise there agency
15:49 joshua_tree: ?
15:49 DrRhoop: yeah
15:49 LifeMask: i have another question
15:49 joshua_tree: ok got it
15:49 DrRhoop: you want to set up choices that profit you either way :P
15:49 DrRhoop: LifeMask: shoot
15:49 LifeMask: does your mother know you're gay?
15:50 refrigeratorbob: hey guys, remember the part where the sales guys were just sitting around, depressed, waiting for customers they knew weren't coming? and um how people 'don't do their shoulds, and do their shouldn'ts?' and, um, how rapport is keeping the car in between the lines, and not just snoozing with cruise control?
15:50 DrRhoop has kicked LifeMask (Kindergarten is elsewhere!)
15:50 LifeMask has joined
15:50 mandeer: yes, refrigeratorbob
15:50 joshua_tree: yes, i liked that part
15:50 dare_ious: Are there exercises anyone can think of to keep the chapters fresh in their mind in the same ways as PR?
15:50 mandeer: questions?
15:50 refrigeratorbob: that was awesome
15:50 mandeer: lol
15:50 refrigeratorbob: i can talk more about all of those things
15:51 mandeer: refrigeratorbob: if you have stuff to say about them, shoot
15:51 refrigeratorbob: well, each of those points stuck out for me
15:51 joshua_tree: dare_ious: doesn't he say there are exercises at some point?
15:51 DrRhoop: in the next few chapters there are
15:51 mandeer: cool
15:51 joshua_tree: ok good
15:51 mandeer: yeah, these chapters were mostly intro
15:51 mrinferno: 8==D
15:52 dare_ious: cool
15:52 mandeer: so i think the discussion will be much better for chapter 3
15:52 mandeer: plus, we'll be better at it
15:52 joshua_tree: yeah that's right at the end of ch 2 where he says that
15:52 mandeer: in any case, i'm going to pastebin this shit now
15:52 mandeer: thank you guys