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  1. [18:10] * Redew sets mode: +m
  2. [18:10] <@Minus> Hello everyone!
  3. [18:10] <@Minus> I'm Minus, and I'll be one your hosts today
  4. [18:10] <@Minus> along with EonX, Magnemite, and CyclicCompund
  5. [18:10] * CurryGovernor (Mibbit@synIRC-F7C03C0F.as13285.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  6. [18:11] <@CyclicCompound> *CyclicCompound
  7. [18:11] * Lovecraft (Mibbit@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #workshops
  8. [18:11] <@CyclicCompound> get it right
  9. [18:11] <@Minus> lol
  10. [18:11] * aragorn (Mibbit@synIRC-9B9F8639.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #workshops
  11. [18:11] * adrianphone (Mibbit@3BB2D817.D8F83925.9E9895AF.IP) has joined #workshops
  12. [18:11] * Redew sets mode: +v Muk
  13. [18:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Xylen
  14. [18:11] <@Minus> C&C is the area of the site that produces most of the on-site content
  15. [18:11] <%Xylen> we're starting?
  16. [18:11] <@Minus> from analyses to articles
  17. [18:11] <@Minus> (yes)
  18. [18:12] <@Minus> keep in mind, this does not include our webzines
  19. [18:12] * UnFIXABLE (Mibbit@synIRC-C20E8C08.phnx.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  20. [18:12] <@Minus> such as The Smog, The PLayer, or the Competitor
  21. [18:13] <@Minus> by doing work in C&C, you can earn a Pre-Contributor badge (ladybug)
  22. [18:13] <@Minus> on the forums
  23. [18:13] <@Minus> If you continue to do work, you may even be considered for a Contributor badge (teardrop)
  24. [18:13] <@Minus> Magnemite
  25. [18:14] <@Minus> will now talk about the parts of the C&C forum
  26. [18:14] <@Magnemite> the c&c forums are located here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/#contribute.27
  27. [18:14] <@GoddessBriyella> wow
  28. [18:15] <@GoddessBriyella> this channel inflated quickly
  29. [18:15] <@Magnemite> the preliminary pokedex forum is where completed analyses that are ready for upload go
  30. [18:15] <@Magnemite> sixth/past generation contributions
  31. [18:15] <@Magnemite> is where all of the writing happens
  32. [18:16] <@Magnemite> for both current and past gens, respectively
  33. [18:16] * ShinyPlatinum (Mibbit@synIRC-F145FD82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  34. [18:16] <@Magnemite> and "archives" is where outdated analyses go
  35. [18:17] <@Magnemite> this is where pretty much everything related to c&c happens
  36. [18:17] <@Magnemite> CyclicCompound
  37. [18:17] <@Magnemite> you are next
  38. [18:17] <@Magnemite> :o
  39. [18:17] <@CyclicCompound> okay cool
  40. [18:17] <@CyclicCompound> so
  41. [18:17] <@CyclicCompound> the most important thing about coming into C&C
  42. [18:18] <@CyclicCompound> is that you should be somewhat knowledgeable about whatever it is you're doing
  43. [18:18] * ScarfWynaut (Mibbit@synIRC-E594965B.aztw.cable.virginm.net) has joined #workshops
  44. [18:18] <@CyclicCompound> if you're looking to get onto the GP team, your grammar skills should be somewhat good
  45. [18:18] <@CyclicCompound> if you're looking to write an analysis,
  46. [18:18] <@CyclicCompound> you should have experience in the tier you're writing for,
  47. [18:18] <@CyclicCompound> and definitely experience with the pokemon.
  48. [18:19] * @Vacate (Mibbit@cant.play.pokemon) Quit (Quit: Sleep)
  49. [18:19] <@CyclicCompound> however, don't be intimidated.
  50. [18:19] <@CyclicCompound> it's okay if you're still starting out and you make a few little errors here and there.
  51. [18:19] <@CyclicCompound> that's what QC and GP teams are for, and they'll help you iron out any kinks.
  52. [18:20] <@CyclicCompound> but as a basic guideline, be comfortable discussing the tier.
  53. [18:20] <@Minus> (QC stands for Quality Control and GP stands for Grammar-Prose; we'll go over them later)
  54. [18:20] <@CyclicCompound> so when you think you're ready to reserve something,
  55. [18:20] <@CyclicCompound> yeah that.
  56. [18:21] <@CyclicCompound> but anyways, in every single tier's C&C forum, there is a stickied thread known as the "reservation index."
  57. [18:21] <@Minus> (such as this for RU: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ru-c-c-index-look-here-if-you-need-to-reserve-an-analysis.3509721/)
  58. [18:21] <@CyclicCompound> This is where you reserve analyses. It is essentially a more organized version of people saying "dibs on _____."
  59. [18:22] <@CyclicCompound> if you're an unbadged member, you are allowed to reserve up to two Pokemon at any given time.
  60. [18:22] <@CyclicCompound> Once one of your reservations has reached the stage where it is written up in paragraphs, you may reserve another.
  61. [18:22] <@CyclicCompound> However, if you are a badged member, you may have up to three analyses in reservation at a time.
  62. [18:23] <@CyclicCompound> That's one of the few concrete incentives to having a badge, by the way.
  63. [18:23] <@CyclicCompound> Anyways, from the time you reserve something, you have 72 hours to post a completed skeleton in the tier's respective C&C forum.
  64. [18:23] <@CyclicCompound> (we'll cover skeletons in a bit.)
  65. [18:23] <@Magnemite> it's worth noting that in some tiers badgeholders are able to reserve more than 3 analyses
  66. [18:23] <@Magnemite> such as ru
  67. [18:23] <@CyclicCompound> ^
  68. [18:24] * ScarfWynaut (Mibbit@synIRC-E594965B.aztw.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  69. [18:24] <@CyclicCompound> particularly if you're a trusted member of the community.
  70. [18:24] <@Minus> or UU for that matter
  71. [18:24] * PeefRimgar (Mibbit@synIRC-325C0B9A.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  72. [18:24] <@Magnemite> however, you're still expected to get them done in a timely fasion
  73. [18:24] <@Magnemite> *fashion
  74. [18:24] <@CyclicCompound> yup.
  75. [18:24] * Arhops (Mibbit@synIRC-27D5553A.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  76. [18:24] <@CyclicCompound> no comment upon the state of my current RU analyses.
  77. [18:24] <@CyclicCompound> anyways
  78. [18:25] <@Magnemite> mine too
  79. [18:25] <@CyclicCompound> you have 72 hours to post your completed skeleton, and the way you do that
  80. [18:25] <@EonX> (i will call this into question after this workshop both of you >.> )
  81. [18:25] <@CyclicCompound> is with the "create thread" button
  82. [18:25] <@Minus> (lol)
  83. [18:25] <@CyclicCompound> on the top right-hand corner of the page
  84. [18:25] <@CyclicCompound> it's light blue and fairly big so it shouldn't be too hard to find.
  85. [18:26] <@CyclicCompound> when creating your thread, title it whatever the name of your reserved pokemon is, and give it the [WIP] tag, which stands for Work in Progress.
  86. [18:27] <@CyclicCompound> once your skeleton is complete, title it [Pokemon] (QC 0/3), and give it the [Quality Control] tag.
  87. [18:27] <@CyclicCompound> now EonX is going to discuss what exactly a skeleton is :)
  88. [18:28] <@EonX> a skeleton is basically what it sounds like
  89. [18:28] * Alexandrine (Mibbit@synIRC-5ABA8DFA.dsl.bell.ca) has left #workshops
  90. [18:28] <@EonX> a rought outline of the pokemon you're doing an analysis on
  91. [18:29] <@EonX> the parts of an analysis are Overview, Moves, Set Details, Usage Tips, Team Options, Other Options, and Checks and Counters
  92. [18:29] <@EonX> Moves, Set Details, Usage Tips, and Team Options will be in every set within the analysis
  93. [18:29] * Air- (Mibbit@synIRC-BAC3CEC1.rdl805.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  94. [18:29] <@EonX> The Overview comes first
  95. [18:29] <@Minus> (for reference: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tauros-qc-0-3.3512381/)
  96. [18:30] <@EonX> This will detail the Pokemon's strong points, weak points, and likely touch upon the sets the Pokemon commonly uses
  97. [18:30] * %Xylen (Mibbit@synIRC-DD05618F.singnet.com.sg) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  98. [18:30] <@Magnemite> this thread contains the format btw
  99. [18:30] <@Magnemite> http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/generation-6-analysis-format.3495073/
  100. [18:30] <@Minus> (wrong link, look at this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gallade-qc-0-3.3509845/)
  101. [18:31] <@EonX> In the Moves section, you should detail what each move in the set does
  102. [18:31] <@EonX> If moves are slashed together, be sure to mention the move that comes before the slash first
  103. [18:31] <@EonX> As this is likely the more useful move in general
  104. [18:32] <@EonX> You can also include moves that aren't slash-worthy, but are still viable for the set in question
  105. [18:32] * Air- (Mibbit@synIRC-BAC3CEC1.rdl805.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #workshops
  106. [18:32] <@EonX> But be sure to do this after you have explained all of the given moves in the set
  107. [18:32] <@EonX> In Set Details, you will explain the EVs, nature, and held item
  108. [18:33] * bellows (Mibbit@synIRC-C8913EB7.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  109. [18:33] <@EonX> If there are alternates to any of these, you can list them at the end of Set Details, stating their uses over the primary choices
  110. [18:33] * Unfixable (Mibbit@synIRC-C20E8C08.phnx.qwest.net) has joined #workshops
  111. [18:33] <@EonX> Usage Tips is really important, even moreso than everything else
  112. [18:34] <@EonX> Within Usage Tips, explain how the Pokemon is used. Make sure that someone who has never used the set before knows how to make the most use of it
  113. [18:34] * Xylen (Mibbit@synIRC-63E34233.singnet.com.sg) has joined #workshops
  114. [18:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +h Xylen
  115. [18:34] <@EonX> This can include stating what the Pokemon wants to come in on and what it may want to try and avoid
  116. [18:35] <@EonX> In Team Options, you should list kinds of Pokemon that work well with the set
  117. [18:35] <@EonX> This can include stuff like "SR Support", "Hazard Control", "wallbreakers", "Wish Support", and so on
  118. [18:36] * Air- (Mibbit@synIRC-BAC3CEC1.rdl805.qld.optusnet.com.au) has left #workshops
  119. [18:36] <@EonX> In the Other Options section, you should list moves that aren't mentioned in any set that may still be viable, but are usually outclassed by other Pokemon in the given tier
  120. [18:37] * Air- (Mibbit@synIRC-BAC3CEC1.rdl805.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #workshops
  121. [18:37] <@EonX> The last section is Checks and Counters
  122. [18:37] <@EonX> This is where you list the Pokemon that are good answers to the given Pokemon you're doing an analysis of
  123. [18:37] <@EonX> Try to list these in order of most effective to least effective, so the reader has a better understanding as to what the best answers to the Pokemon in question are
  124. [18:38] <@EonX> Also, be sure to note the differences between a Counter and a Check
  125. [18:38] * Arhops (Mibbit@synIRC-36605AC6.sub-70-199-134.myvzw.com) has joined #workshops
  126. [18:38] <@EonX> You'll want to list Counters before Checks
  127. [18:38] <@EonX> as Counters are safer answers under most circumstances
  128. [18:39] <@CyclicCompound> (just to clarify, note that the overview, other options, and checks & counters are done once for the whole analysis, while the other sections are repeated for each set).
  129. [18:39] <@EonX> Magnemite will now discuss how your metagame knowledge will be shown within a skeleton
  130. [18:39] <@EonX> (I mentioned this at the start)
  131. [18:40] <@Magnemite> the most important thing when choosing which pokemon you want to do an analysis on
  132. [18:40] <@CyclicCompound> (sorry, didn't see it at first)
  133. [18:40] <@Magnemite> before reserving a pokemon, make sure that you have knowledge of how the pokemon you are reserving works in that metagame
  134. [18:41] <@Magnemite> if the quality control (qc) team feels that your analysis does not accurately reflect how the pokemon performs in the metagame, it may be reassigned
  135. [18:42] <@Magnemite> however, if you feel that you have a bit of knowledge on how the pokemon works but feel that you need a bit more
  136. [18:42] * Unfixable (Mibbit@synIRC-C20E8C08.phnx.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  137. [18:43] <@Magnemite> (and even if you don't, it's still a good idea)
  138. [18:43] <@Magnemite> you should test out the sets that you incluse in your analysis on the simulator
  139. [18:43] <@Magnemite> *include
  140. [18:44] <@Magnemite> looking at the respective tier subforums in competitive discussion can also be a good idea
  141. [18:44] <@Minus> (This is Pokemon Showdown!, Smogon's official battle simulator: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/)
  142. [18:45] <@Magnemite> basically, in a nutshell, analyses are supposed to be written as a guide to an individual pokemon written by someone who is skilled at using them
  143. [18:45] <@Magnemite> however, as stated earlier, the qc team is still there to help you out
  144. [18:46] <@Magnemite> so if you aren't sure about minor details, it isn't the end of the world
  145. [18:47] <@Magnemite> next, EonX will talk about how to make changes to your skeleton after it is written
  146. [18:48] * Lovecraft (Mibbit@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  147. [18:48] <@EonX> Some people may come along and comment on your WIP with things to add. Only add what you feel should be added
  148. [18:49] <@EonX> If you have questions on what was suggested, feel free to ask a QC Member in the given C&C section your analysis is in for clarification
  149. [18:49] <@EonX> (we don't bite)
  150. [18:50] * Ununhexium (unun@hex.ium) Quit (Client exited)
  151. [18:50] <@EonX> Once you feel like your skeleton has all of the needed information, go ahead and change the tag found in the title to "Quality Control"
  152. [18:50] * Ununhexium (unun@hex.ium) has joined #workshops
  153. [18:51] <@EonX> (Go to Edit Title and hover over it for the dropdown list to appear)
  154. [18:51] * Air- (Mibbit@synIRC-BAC3CEC1.rdl805.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  155. [18:51] <@EonX> Members of that tier's Quality Control team will go over your analysis thoroughly
  156. [18:51] <@EonX> Suggesting changes they feel are necessary along the way
  157. [18:52] * Lvcrft (~androirc@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Client exited)
  158. [18:52] * Lvcrft (~androirc@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #workshops
  159. [18:52] <@EonX> If they feel that the information given is solid, they will stamp (otherwise known as "check") it with their approval
  160. [18:53] <@EonX> After the 2nd stamp (check) you will then write up your analysis in full paragraph form
  161. [18:53] <@EonX> Make sure to keep the original skeleton in the [HIDE][./HIDE] tags
  162. [18:53] * Arhops (Mibbit@synIRC-36605AC6.sub-70-199-134.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  163. [18:53] <@EonX> After finishing the write up, a 3rd QC Member will look it over and suggest any final changes that need to be made
  164. [18:54] <@EonX> If few or none need to be made, they will give you your 3rd stamp (check) to allow you to enter the "Copyediting" phase
  165. [18:54] * Mandaryn (Mibbit@synIRC-E427FAC3.triad.res.rr.com) has joined #workshops
  166. [18:55] <@EonX> After the 3rd stamp, change the tag to "Copyediting" and add [GP 0/2] to the end of the thread title
  167. [18:55] <@EonX> This will let our wonderful GP (Grammar-Prose) Team know that your analysis is ready to be checked by them
  168. [18:56] <@EonX> They'll make sure that everything looks good with your Grammar and that your Prose is solid (hint GP Team!)
  169. [18:56] * Arhops (Mibbit@synIRC-27D5553A.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #workshops
  170. [18:56] <@EonX> You can also send them a VM on Smogon with a link to your analysis so they can notice it faster
  171. [18:56] * Lvcrft (~androirc@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) Quit (Ping timeout)
  172. [18:57] <@EonX> Just know that they're very busy with all of the analyses around the site and may not get to your's right away
  173. [18:57] <@EonX> But once you get two GP checks, you can change the tag in the title to "Done" to signal the C&C Moderators in the given tier than your analysis is ready for upload!
  174. [18:58] <@EonX> Once you've done that, one of the C&C Moderators in the given forum (such as myself for RU C&C) will move your thread to the Prelimary Pokedex
  175. [18:58] <@EonX> Where it will then be uploaded on-site for everyone to see!
  176. [18:58] <%Xylen> (There's a list of GP members here, http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/grammar-prose-team-queue-here-we-go-again.3489979/ )
  177. [18:59] <@EonX> Analyses aren't the only part of C&C however
  178. [18:59] <@EonX> CyclicCompound will now go over Aritcles
  179. [18:59] <@CyclicCompound> thank you :)
  180. [18:59] * Awesome (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) has joined #workshops
  181. [18:59] <@CyclicCompound> so the other major part of C&C apart from analyses are articles and letters.
  182. [18:59] <+Muk> Articles? Like the articles and guides I see on Smogon University's main site?
  183. [18:59] <@CyclicCompound> Yes, that's correct.
  184. [18:59] <+Muk> Sounds great!
  185. [19:00] <@CyclicCompound> Thank you, Muk.
  186. [19:00] * Seismitoad is now known as isthereabenchmarkinanalysesfor
  187. [19:00] <@CyclicCompound> Yes, those are where those articles come from.
  188. [19:00] * isthereabenchmarkinanalysesfor is now known as ladybug
  189. [19:00] <@Magnemite> (lol seismitoad)
  190. [19:00] <@CyclicCompound> It's very easy to reserve articles and letters, most people don't do it though because they're long.
  191. [19:01] <@Minus> (we'll get to it seismitoad)
  192. [19:01] <@CyclicCompound> However, I should note that they're often written over a period of months, so it's really not that much work!
  193. [19:01] * ladybug is now known as Seismitoad
  194. [19:01] <@CyclicCompound> To reserve them, there is a reservation index in the articles and letters subforum.
  195. [19:01] <@CyclicCompound> just type what you want to write about, and tag macle by writing @macle.
  196. [19:02] <@CyclicCompound> Articles and Letters can be about anything, the primary difference between the two is simply that letters are shorter but might be over a more specific concept.
  197. [19:02] <@EonX> (do that here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gen-6-articles-claims-suggestions.3489987/ )
  198. [19:03] <@CyclicCompound> Common article topics include guides to certain playstyles (e.g. Rain or Trick Room),
  199. [19:03] <@CyclicCompound> and also anything that requires explanation beyond just experience
  200. [19:03] * KitKasai (Mibbit@3D4758E8.3162B255.A697295D.IP) has joined #workshops
  201. [19:04] <@CyclicCompound> the whole point of articles is to educate people on something that might be hard to learn simply from an analysis
  202. [19:04] <+Muk> What if I want to write an article for an old generation, like Red / Blue / Yellow? Can I still do that?
  203. [19:04] <@CyclicCompound> Absolutely, Muk, I'm glad you asked!
  204. [19:04] <@CyclicCompound> You can write articles for any tier.
  205. [19:04] <@CyclicCompound> You can even write articles that don't pertain to a certain tier.
  206. [19:04] <@Minus> (If you have questions, we'll answer them after we finish, so stay tuned!)
  207. [19:05] <@EonX> (suggest ones for older metas here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/articles-and-letters.106/)
  208. [19:05] * aragorn is now known as very_staged_question
  209. [19:05] <@CyclicCompound> articles will be linked to the respective tier's hub page.
  210. [19:05] <@Minus> (it's not, well i didn't plan it O.o)
  211. [19:06] * Awesome (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  212. [19:06] * Xylen is now known as Xylen|Breakfast
  213. [19:06] * Awesomeceus (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) has joined #workshops
  214. [19:06] <@CyclicCompound> so unlike analyses,
  215. [19:06] * Berserking_Now (~Berserkin@synIRC-1D7C5525.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Berserking_Now)
  216. [19:06] <@CyclicCompound> articles rarely follow a common format.
  217. [19:07] <@CyclicCompound> because of that, your article "skeleton" can be an outline in any form, and you may fill it in however you'd like.
  218. [19:07] <@CyclicCompound> It's really whatever works for you.
  219. [19:07] <@CyclicCompound> People may also volunteer to write sections of the article.
  220. [19:07] <@CyclicCompound> Finally, just like analyses, articles have a QC and GP process.
  221. [19:08] <@CyclicCompound> However, because of the nature of articles, there is no set team that deals with articles. Often it's people from the tiers that it best represents, or QC members that are knowledgeable about the article in question.
  222. [19:08] <@CyclicCompound> However, the GP process is the same.
  223. [19:08] <@CyclicCompound> Also, as a side note,
  224. [19:09] <@CyclicCompound> don't be upset at the GP team if your article takes a while to be GP'd.
  225. [19:09] <@CyclicCompound> Articles often end up being much longer than analyses, and have lower priority as well in most cases.
  226. [19:09] <@Minus> (they're are super long oml, I've only GP'd one article my whole life)
  227. [19:09] <@CyclicCompound> So oftentimes the GP team either has other things to get to, or they don't have enough time to work on one.
  228. [19:10] <@CyclicCompound> But sit tight, they'll eventually get there.
  229. [19:10] <@CyclicCompound> So that's all you need to know about articles.
  230. [19:10] <@CyclicCompound> and letters.
  231. [19:10] * very_staged_question is now known as aragorn
  232. [19:10] <@CyclicCompound> now I will be going over a completely different topic: the QC teams.
  233. [19:11] * Xylen|Breakfast is now known as Xylen
  234. [19:11] * aragorn (Mibbit@synIRC-9B9F8639.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has left #workshops
  235. [19:11] <@CyclicCompound> QC stands for Quality Control, as you probably already know.
  236. [19:11] <@CyclicCompound> They're the people who check over analyses to make sure the content is up to snuff.
  237. [19:11] <@CyclicCompound> Every single metagame, including soon OMs, has their own QC team.
  238. [19:12] <@CyclicCompound> They'll give you feedback (which you should follow), and give you stamps that signify that your analysis is good.
  239. [19:12] <@EonX> (if you want to know who's in a certain tier's QC Team, look in the Reservation Index for that tier's C&C)
  240. [19:12] <+Muk> And do the members of a QC team discuss a given analysis amongst themselves, agreeing upon the best possible product?
  241. [19:12] <@CyclicCompound> Thanks for asking, Muk, the answer is that ANYBODY can discuss a given analysis!
  242. [19:12] <@CyclicCompound> Even YOU!
  243. [19:13] <@CyclicCompound> QC teams often discuss sets on IRC, as well as on the analysis itself.
  244. [19:13] <@CyclicCompound> These IRC channels are public and anyone can chip in.
  245. [19:14] <@CyclicCompound> For example, the OU QC team uses #ouqc to discuss analyses.
  246. [19:14] <@CyclicCompound> You can find information about QC channels in most tiers' subforums, or you can simply ask someone if it's not listed.
  247. [19:14] * Awesomeceus (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  248. [19:14] <@CyclicCompound> And of course, you're always welcome to post suggestions in a thread, even if you're not a QC member.
  249. [19:15] <@CyclicCompound> QC is also in charge of rejecting analyses.
  250. [19:15] <@EonX> (like Arikado usually does for RU)
  251. [19:15] <@CyclicCompound> This can either be because the set is bad, or because the writer's analysis isn't adequate.
  252. [19:15] <@CyclicCompound> If QC rejects your analysis, don't feel bad.
  253. [19:16] <@CyclicCompound> Minus has had 6 rejected analyses and he's still an awesome contributor.
  254. [19:16] <%Xylen> If QC rejects your analysis, do you have to rewrite it over?
  255. [19:16] <@CyclicCompound> No, it is usually reassigned if the Pokemon still requires an analysis.
  256. [19:16] <@CyclicCompound> so finally, the QC teams themselves are comprised of simple contributors.
  257. [19:16] <%Xylen> And how many rejects does it take to be reassigned?
  258. [19:16] <@CyclicCompound> three.
  259. [19:17] <@Magnemite> 3
  260. [19:17] <@CyclicCompound> There are basically two ways of getting onto a tier's QC team:
  261. [19:17] <@CyclicCompound> The first is to be a proven competent player, basically being a good tournament presence.
  262. [19:18] <@CyclicCompound> For example, in the OU QC team, members like Dice and BKC are well-known for doing well in tournaments.
  263. [19:18] <@CyclicCompound> On the other hand, you can also get in by being a good presence in C&C and contributing a lot.
  264. [19:18] <@EonX> (like i did)
  265. [19:18] <@CyclicCompound> I, personally, have never played a smogon tournament in my life, and to be completely honest, I'm not even very good at laddering.
  266. [19:19] * PeefRimgar (Mibbit@synIRC-325C0B9A.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #workshops
  267. [19:19] <@CyclicCompound> however, I know the tier very well, and I've contributed a ton to OU C&C, so by virtue of my dedication to the tier, I got on the QC team.
  268. [19:20] <@CyclicCompound> So even if you're not an accomplished, famous, tournament player, pure dedication and hard work can go a long way.
  269. [19:20] <@CyclicCompound> Now Minus will talk about GP teams.
  270. [19:20] * ~Redew (Redew@jukain.is.literally.the.worst) Quit (Quit: )
  271. [19:21] <@Minus> You've probably heard the term "GP" like 10000 times by now
  272. [19:21] * thebravestbird (Mibbit@D98E6E1F.EAC01C8C.45B755CB.IP) has joined #workshops
  273. [19:21] * ~Redew|iPad (~Redew@BD6436BC.1B6AB910.6DCA9818.IP) Quit (Quit: Redew|iPad)
  274. [19:21] <@Minus> but what is it exactly?
  275. [19:21] * AndroUser2 (~androirc@synIRC-40742F81.user.veloxzone.com.br) has joined #workshops
  276. [19:21] * AdrianMarin is now known as Need
  277. [19:21] <@Minus> Well, GP is a group of users that goes and checks the grammar of the analyses
  278. [19:21] * Need is now known as needtohearitmore
  279. [19:21] * needtohearitmore is now known as notenoughgp
  280. [19:21] <@Minus> I myself am apart of the GP team
  281. [19:22] <@Minus> What is we do is go to analyses that have the tag "copyediting"
  282. [19:22] <@Minus> and we check the grammar of it
  283. [19:22] <@Minus> There is only one GP team, unlike the many QC teams
  284. [19:22] <@Minus> afterall, it /is/ only one language n_n
  285. [19:22] * notenoughgp is now known as AdrianMarin
  286. [19:23] <@Magnemite> (by the way, there will be a full log of this workshop available after it is finished, so if you missed part of it, don't worry)
  287. [19:23] <@Minus> In order to join the team
  288. [19:23] * Arhops is now known as inb4translatedanalysisplural
  289. [19:23] <@Minus> you have to show that you know your grammar by making amateur checks on analyses
  290. [19:23] <@Magnemite> (however, we encourage you to stick around for the whole thing in order to ask questions at the end!)
  291. [19:24] <@Minus> what that means is that you check the grammar of an analyses (similar to qc peer edits like cyclic talked about)
  292. [19:24] <@Minus> but don't give a stamp
  293. [19:24] <@Minus> In addition, Smogon has developped its own "Pokegrammar"
  294. [19:24] <@Minus> such as always capitalizing the word "Pokemon"
  295. [19:24] <@Minus> etc
  296. [19:25] <@Minus> There will be a workshop on GP later
  297. [19:25] <@Minus> I'll contanct anyone interested once we get the times for it
  298. [19:25] * adrianphone (Mibbit@3BB2D817.D8F83925.9E9895AF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  299. [19:25] * inb4translatedanalysisplural is now known as Arhops
  300. [19:25] <%Xylen> (By later you mean this session?)
  301. [19:25] <@Minus> Now Magnemite will go over the IRC channels of QC and GP
  302. [19:26] <@Minus> (no Xylen, I mean there will be a whole new workshop for it)
  303. [19:26] * thebravestbird (Mibbit@D98E6E1F.EAC01C8C.45B755CB.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  304. [19:26] <@Magnemite> there are quite a few reasons to want to get in touch with qc members
  305. [19:27] * TheBurgerKing99 (Mibbit@synIRC-526E6214.maine.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  306. [19:27] <@Magnemite> if you have specific or general questions regarding your analysis / sets
  307. [19:27] * NoGoodUserNames (Mibbit@synIRC-233F7CB3.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  308. [19:27] <@Magnemite> the best way to reach them is via irc
  309. [19:28] <@Minus> (there will be a Q&A session after we finish. You can ask questions then!)
  310. [19:28] <@Magnemite> this can be done by PMing them or finding them in the respective channels
  311. [19:28] <@Magnemite> #grammar is (obviously) where gp related questions should go
  312. [19:28] * Berserking_Now (~Berserkin@synIRC-1D7C5525.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #workshops
  313. [19:29] <@Magnemite> while #C&C is for general c&c concerns
  314. [19:29] <@Magnemite> there is a qc channel for ou, #ouqc
  315. [19:29] <@Magnemite> but the other tiers don't have special qc channels
  316. [19:30] <@Magnemite> however, the main tier channels are good places to discuss sets or analyses
  317. [19:30] <@Magnemite> these are #xyuu, #rarelyused, #neverused, #littlecup, #doubles, and #ubers
  318. [19:31] <@Magnemite> note that while you can ask qc members for a checkby PMing or VMing them on the forums
  319. [19:32] <@Magnemite> they are often busy and might not get to your analysis right away
  320. [19:32] <@Magnemite> so please be patient and refrain from bugging them
  321. [19:32] <@Magnemite> next, CyclicCompound will talk about what to do when there are no analyses to reserve
  322. [19:33] <@EonX> (some do give priority to their VMs though, like myself)
  323. [19:33] <@CyclicCompound> ALright
  324. [19:33] <@CyclicCompound> so
  325. [19:33] <@CyclicCompound> Oftentimes there is simply nothing to reserve after some period of time.
  326. [19:33] * adrianphone (Mibbit@3BB2D817.D8F83925.9E9895AF.IP) has joined #workshops
  327. [19:34] <@CyclicCompound> In OU, for example, we have on average maybe about 1 or 2 sets per week that need to get written up, but due to the large number of interested writers, they're often snapped up within hours.
  328. [19:34] <@CyclicCompound> so in that case, what you SHOULD NOT DO is frantically post in the reservation thread trying to reserve unviable things.
  329. [19:34] <@CyclicCompound> I have seen this happen at least 15 times in OU.
  330. [19:35] <@CyclicCompound> And no, lopunny will not be getting an OU analysis, no matter how eager someone is to write it.
  331. [19:35] <@CyclicCompound> however, the important thing to remember is that there is almost ALWAYS a way to contribute outside of purely writing.
  332. [19:36] <@CyclicCompound> You are more than welcome to post in any analysis or article thread and suggest changes.
  333. [19:36] <@CyclicCompound> Testing sets is also welcome, if you see something that looks dubious, test it!
  334. [19:36] <@CyclicCompound> Come back with results, perhaps you'll find something that can be changed to make it better
  335. [19:36] <@CyclicCompound> .
  336. [19:37] <@CyclicCompound> and finally, just because something's already got the [Done] tag and uploaded doesn't mean it can't be changed.
  337. [19:37] <@CyclicCompound> If you're skimming through the Strategy Pokedex and find something that looks like it could be made better, bring it up.
  338. [19:37] <@CyclicCompound> In most tiers you can do this via the reservation threads. Some tiers, like OU, have a dedicated thread for it
  339. [19:37] <@CyclicCompound> .
  340. [19:37] * ferminter (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) has joined #workshops
  341. [19:38] <@CyclicCompound> And of course, when suggesting changes, be thorough and polite.
  342. [19:38] <@CyclicCompound> Don't post on someone's analysis "oml that set description is cancer"
  343. [19:38] <@EonX> (link to the main page of the strategy dex: http://www.smogon.com/dex/ )
  344. [19:38] <@CyclicCompound> Anyways, that's what to do when there's nothing to reserve.
  345. [19:39] <@CyclicCompound> And of course, even when there IS something to reserve, please, do these things anyway~
  346. [19:39] <@CyclicCompound> Don't think that reserving everything you can is the best path to a badge, because it's not.
  347. [19:39] <@CyclicCompound> Particularly if you're only reserving something because you want to, not because you actually know about the set in question.
  348. [19:40] <@EonX> (we prefer quality over quantity when it comes to ladybugs and teardrops)
  349. [19:40] * ferminter (Mibbit@CE3796DF.FEE65D89.DFF4DB61.IP) has left #workshops
  350. [19:40] <@CyclicCompound> ^
  351. [19:40] <@CyclicCompound> exactly.
  352. [19:40] * TheBurgerKing99 (Mibbit@synIRC-526E6214.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #workshops
  353. [19:40] <@CyclicCompound> And having a wide presence over many analyses, suggesting many sets and showing a lot of overall metagame knowledge is far more telling of your ability than a lot of analyses.
  354. [19:41] <@CyclicCompound> Now EonX will talk about the difference between C&C and Competitive Discussion.
  355. [19:41] * Xylen is now known as Brblen
  356. [19:42] <@EonX> So C&C and Competitive Discussion are a fair bit different
  357. [19:42] <@EonX> C&C is a lot more formal than Competitive Discussion
  358. [19:42] <@EonX> If you're wanting to talk about a metagame in general, go to that metagame's forum within Competitive Discussion
  359. [19:42] * adrianphone (Mibbit@3BB2D817.D8F83925.9E9895AF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  360. [19:43] <@EonX> C&C only contains analyses of Pokemon within a given tier
  361. [19:43] <@EonX> Only post a thread when you have permission from 1 or more of the QC Members of a given C&C area
  362. [19:43] <@EonX> Otherwise, it will likely be locked
  363. [19:44] * Brblen is now known as Xylen
  364. [19:44] * Alter (~Alter@synIRC-FB9D9915.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #workshops
  365. [19:44] <@EonX> However, you're more than welcome to inquire about the possibility of a Pokemon getting an analysis in teh Reservation Index thread for that tier's C&C subforum
  366. [19:44] <@EonX> Just make sure that you back your suggestion with solid reasoning
  367. [19:44] <@EonX> Replays of the Pokemon in action are advised
  368. [19:45] <@EonX> In order to support your suggestion and give the QC Team an early idea of how the Pokemon plays if they have questions about its viability
  369. [19:45] <@EonX> The QC Team will discuss it amongst themselves, keeping in mind any discussion that takes place about it in the Reservation Index
  370. [19:46] <@EonX> One of the members will then announce whether the Pokemon in question will be granted an analysis and likely tag the person who originally brought the Pokemon up for discussion
  371. [19:46] <@EonX> If it's granted an analysis
  372. [19:47] <@EonX> Magnemite will now explain how to not overwork yourself when it comes to analyses and C&C in general
  373. [19:47] <@Magnemite> okay, we're almost ready for q&a, this is the last section
  374. [19:47] <@Magnemite> basically, you should make sure to pace yourself in c&c
  375. [19:48] <@Magnemite> not only does this help you not get burned out, but it also helps you have more fun contributing
  376. [19:49] <@Magnemite> you don't have to get qc checks immediately, and you don't always have to write up your analyses right away eiher
  377. [19:49] <@Magnemite> *either
  378. [19:49] <@Minus> Don't make contributing turn into a chore
  379. [19:49] * GoddessBriyella is now known as Briyellaway
  380. [19:50] <@Magnemite> and don't reserve too many analyses at one time
  381. [19:50] <@Minus> so don't overload yourself by doing the above
  382. [19:50] <@Magnemite> otherwise you might not finish some of them on time, and c&c will feel more like an obligation than a way to have fun contributing
  383. [19:51] <@Magnemite> okay, w're ready for q&a now
  384. [19:51] <@Magnemite> please try to be patient, we can only answer so fast
  385. [19:51] <@Magnemite> :o
  386. [19:51] * Magnemite sets mode: -m
  387. [19:51] <%Xylen> can i ask the first q? :<
  388. [19:51] <@Magnemite> yes
  389. [19:51] <%Xylen> What's the best way to get into c/c
  390. [19:51] <@EonX> we'll try to do 3-5 at a time
  391. [19:51] <@EonX> btw
  392. [19:52] <PeefRimgar> How does taking over an analysis work?
  393. [19:52] <Ununhexium> [20:13] (@CyclicCompound) Even YOU!
  394. [19:52] <Ununhexium> Are you smokey the bear
  395. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> Ok so
  396. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> The one thing
  397. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> I'm confused about is
  398. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> I dun no hao make thred
  399. [19:52] <Ununhexium> Oh
  400. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> hao make thred
  401. [19:52] <@Magnemite> peefrimgar, basically when an analysis get reassigned
  402. [19:52] <TheBurgerKing99> adrian
  403. [19:52] <Arhops> how does adding sets to already an already existing analysis work?
  404. [19:52] <TheBurgerKing99> I already adressed that
  405. [19:52] <%Xylen> when you go to the forum, there's a create a thread button i think
  406. [19:52] <Ununhexium> There is a post thread button in the top corner
  407. [19:52] <TheBurgerKing99> it is a light shade of blue
  408. [19:52] <AdrianMarin> I'm just jk
  409. [19:53] <TheBurgerKing99> I should be easy to see because of this
  410. [19:53] <@Magnemite> it gets put up for reservation again like normal
  411. [19:53] <AdrianMarin> .-.
  412. [19:53] <@EonX> Arhops: you just put the set through QC seperately
  413. [19:53] <AdrianMarin> Been wanting to say that
  414. [19:53] <AdrianMarin> The whole time
  415. [19:53] <TheBurgerKing99> You have to move the mouse to the corner
  416. [19:53] <Seismitoad> did you answer my previous question yet?
  417. [19:53] <@EonX> http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/qwilfish-suicide-lead-qc-0-3.3503119/
  418. [19:53] <TheBurgerKing99> And press down on the mouse once while it is over the button
  419. [19:53] <@EonX> here's an example of that
  420. [19:53] <@Magnemite> if it was reassigned because the writer was lazy or w/e
  421. [19:53] <@Minus> Arhops, usually QC decides if a set should be added, then if will go thru QC aand GP etc. A mod will then merge the set with the main analysis onsite.
  422. [19:53] <@Magnemite> you can go off of their skeleton
  423. [19:53] <Mandaryn> As someone new to Pokemon, where would you suggest would be the best place to start?
  424. [19:54] <Ununhexium> Playing the game is HUGE
  425. [19:54] <@Minus> pick a tier and learn it first
  426. [19:54] <@CyclicCompound> Mandaryn: play until you're comfortable with the tier.
  427. [19:54] <@Magnemite> if it was reassigned for quality reasons, then it's not the best idea
  428. [19:54] <Arhops> do you not have to add extra checks and counters if your adding a new set to an analysis for that set?
  429. [19:54] <%Xylen> What's the right mindset when doing c&c? some people do it for badges, some people do it jsut for fun.
  430. [19:54] <TheBurgerKing99> Mandaryn: Pick a tier that sounds interesting, play it until you are good, and then do what ever you want
  431. [19:54] <@EonX> No Arhops
  432. [19:54] <AdrianMarin> I do it for both lol
  433. [19:54] <@EonX> The set just gets merged with the analysis already on-site
  434. [19:54] <AdrianMarin> I don't think it matters
  435. [19:55] <@EonX> which will already have a Checks and Counters section
  436. [19:55] <@Minus> Xylen, it's more about the fun. Who cares about a couple of pixels on your postbit lol?
  437. [19:55] <AdrianMarin> As long as your analyses are good
  438. [19:55] <%Xylen> i guess lol
  439. [19:55] <@Magnemite> seismitoad to answer your question
  440. [19:55] <%Xylen> Also another question, can inactive gp member still gp check?
  441. [19:55] <Mandaryn> Thanks
  442. [19:55] <AdrianMarin> What threas should I use to recommend a set?
  443. [19:55] <AdrianMarin> Thread*
  444. [19:55] <AdrianMarin> I noticed that bulky Charizard-Y doesn't have an analysis
  445. [19:55] <@Magnemite> it usually takes about 6-8 analyses to get a ladybug
  446. [19:56] <Seismitoad> thanks :) but it's not a set thing correct?
  447. [19:56] <@Magnemite> but it depends on the person and their contributions
  448. [19:56] <@Magnemite> and the quality of said contributions
  449. [19:56] <Arhops> how much does adding a set to a analysis that already exists contribute to a badge?
  450. [19:56] <Ununhexium> Also behavioral issues are big
  451. [19:56] * Minus is now known as Minus|momishitler
  452. [19:57] * Berserking_Now (~Berserkin@synIRC-1D7C5525.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has left #workshops
  453. [19:57] <@Magnemite> for example, i got mine after only 5 analyses
  454. [19:57] <AdrianMarin> How good should the bulletpoint-phase of an analysis look like?
  455. [19:57] <Seismitoad> LOL
  456. [19:57] <Ununhexium> Lol minus i understand you
  457. [19:57] <AdrianMarin> Does it need perfect grammar?
  458. [19:57] <@Magnemite> since i contributed a lot to qc discussions on irc
  459. [19:57] <@EonX> Maybe not perfect grammar
  460. [19:57] <Ununhexium> Adrianmarin no
  461. [19:57] <Ununhexium> But it helps
  462. [19:57] <@Minus|momishitler> skeletons don't need perfect grammar
  463. [19:57] <Ununhexium> Because then you can read it
  464. [19:57] <@EonX> But it should have the key points you plan on going over when you write it up
  465. [19:57] <%Xylen> hmm about articles, what does the qc team take note of? the details in the guide/article?
  466. [19:57] <@Minus|momishitler> have you looked at mine?
  467. [19:57] <@Magnemite> it definitely helps
  468. [19:57] <AdrianMarin> Ok, I was wondering since I tried to my my skeleton look as perfect as possible
  469. [19:57] <@Magnemite> and makes writing them up easier
  470. [19:58] <@EonX> also, lol minus. i undertand the pain completely
  471. [19:58] * PeefRimgar (Mibbit@synIRC-325C0B9A.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  472. [19:58] <AdrianMarin> What thread should I use to recommend a set for an analysis?
  473. [19:58] <AdrianMarin> I have one in mind
  474. [19:58] <@EonX> Depends on what tier it's for
  475. [19:58] <Ununhexium> Minus i understand you
  476. [19:58] <Ununhexium> So much
  477. [19:58] <Arhops> iirc the regular reservations thread
  478. [19:58] * Ununhexium brohugs minus
  479. [19:59] <@Magnemite> if your question was asked before but didn't get answered, you can ask it again
  480. [19:59] <Arhops> how much does adding a set to a analysis that already exists contribute to a badge?
  481. [19:59] <@Magnemite> AdrianMarin you make a post in the reservation index
  482. [19:59] <Ununhexium> Arhops its about quality
  483. [19:59] <@Magnemite> Arhops it depends
  484. [19:59] <Ununhexium> It just helps
  485. [19:59] <%Xylen> hmm, also something more... unrelated to the topic, but why do you (Minus|momishitler EonX Magnemite CyclicCompound ) get into C/C?
  486. [19:59] <@Minus|momishitler> arhops, considering some analyses are just one set, they are p much equal
  487. [19:59] <Ununhexium> There are no tangible requirements
  488. [19:59] <@Magnemite> not as much as a full analysis
  489. [19:59] <@Minus|momishitler> but it depends on quality etc
  490. [19:59] <Ununhexium> ^
  491. [19:59] <@Magnemite> but still a decent amount
  492. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> Xylen: tbh I enjoy doing C&C stuff
  493. [20:00] <@Magnemite> also, revamps of old analyses count too
  494. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> QC checking, writing analyses, etc.
  495. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> discussing sets is really fun
  496. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> same with testing sets
  497. [20:00] <AdrianMarin> Thanks @ Magnemite
  498. [20:00] <@Magnemite> for example, after the baton pass clause, my espeon analysis needed to be revamped
  499. [20:00] <@EonX> Xylen: I do it because I enjoy sharing my knowledge. Whether it be through writing analyses myself, or helping others with theirs
  500. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> ^
  501. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> that too
  502. [20:00] <@CyclicCompound> :)
  503. [20:00] <@Minus|momishitler> If you ever feel like you've done enough for ladybug, you can always contact one of us for confirmation.
  504. [20:01] <@Magnemite> yeah, pretty much what cc and eonx said
  505. [20:01] <@Magnemite> for me at least
  506. [20:01] <Ununhexium> Or pm birkal (jk dont)
  507. [20:01] <@EonX> Sure, the badges are nice, but I feel you should do C&C because it's fun
  508. [20:01] <@Minus|momishitler> I did C&C because I knew my grammars and wanted to help
  509. [20:01] <%Xylen> Minus|momishitler!
  510. [20:01] <%Xylen> 08:55 Xylen Also another question, can inactive gp member still gp check?
  511. [20:01] <@Minus|momishitler> yes
  512. [20:01] <Ununhexium> Yes
  513. [20:01] <@Minus|momishitler> inactive gper just means don't VM them abt checks lol
  514. [20:01] <Ununhexium> ^
  515. [20:02] <%Xylen> interesting
  516. [20:02] * @Nova (uid34358@synIRC-77306E9D.ealing.irccloud.com) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  517. [20:02] <@Minus|momishitler> Alright, I think we're done
  518. [20:02] <Arhops> did you guys talk about am checks and what you do when you get one y/n
  519. [20:02] <Ununhexium> Dont worry just vm minus and fleurdyleurse
  520. [20:02] <@Minus|momishitler> good to meet you all
  521. [20:02] <Ununhexium> Bye minus
  522. [20:03] <@Minus|momishitler> Magnemite will post logs shortly
  523. [20:03] <@Minus|momishitler> hope to see you guys in C&C!
  524. [20:03] <Ununhexium> Wait
  525. [20:03] <@Magnemite> okay, i'll make the log ending at this line n_n
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