Log #2

[19:59] <@maggosh> Such as "List of Rings in 358", yeah.
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[19:59] <@maggosh> "List of Armor in KHII"
[20:00] <@maggosh> Etc.
[20:00] <@maggosh> Yay or nay?
[20:00] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> RoxasNobody also offered himself, Inex
[20:00] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Yay
[20:00] <Darkheart3> Yat
[20:00] <Keyblade0> Yay!
[20:00] <LegoAlchristmas> I don't understand, Socks.
[20:00] <Darkheart3> *Yay
[20:00] <HikariKH> That'd be organised and easy to navigate. Yay
[20:00] <LegoAlchristmas> OATH is certainly a good editor.
[20:00] <Chitalian> Wait
[20:00] <Chitalian> GUYS
[20:00] <HikariKH> Yes?
[20:00] <Darkheart3> What?
[20:00] <Chitalian> What are we doing about the magic pages?
[20:00] <Keyblade0> Yes...?
[20:00] <Keyblade0> ...
[20:00] <Sox|Simba> Lego, that has some of the ability articles that were created since the split (OATH was a major contributor to those articles)
[20:00] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> we keep the best one, as with any other...?
[20:00] <Chitalian> Considering that we made the "Element" pages.
[20:00] <@Ankou> Yes. Naturally.
[20:00] <Chitalian> http://www.khwiki.net/Thunder_%28Element%29
[20:01] <LegoAlchristmas> The magic should stay on its own articles.
[20:01] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> ... then we apply information accordingly
[20:01] <LegoAlchristmas> "Thunder", etc.
[20:01] <HikariKH> Take what's best and merge
[20:01] <Keyblade0> ^
[20:01] <LegoAlchristmas> Magic elements are a category of their own.
[20:02] <@Ankou> The element is only partly related to the spell, and cannot be considered the spell. So Thunder and Thunder (Element) rightly have their separate articles, and they look full enough.
[20:02] <@Ankou> In terms of information.
[20:02] <Darkheart3> ^
[20:02] <HikariKH> ^
[20:02] <Keyblade0> ^
[20:02] <@maggosh> Hmm.
[20:02] <@ErryK> I haven't passed out yet.
[20:02] <LegoAlchristmas> Wait.
[20:02] <@Ankou> Alright... Summary decision on this matter before we move on?
[20:02] <@Ankou> ?
[20:02] == mode/#KHWiki-noticeboard [+o Ankou] by ChanServ
[20:03] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We merge the best of each article into the merged wiki.
[20:03] <LegoAlchristmas> Yes.
[20:03] <RoxasXIIILK> ^
[20:03] <@maggosh> Aye.
[20:03] <Darkheart3> Agreed
[20:03] <@Ankou> Alright.
[20:03] <Keyblade0> Yay.
[20:03] <HikariKH> Agreed
[20:03] <Chainoffire_> mmhmm
[20:03] <@Ankou> Shall we move on, then?
[20:03] <Chitalian> Images and renders?
[20:03] <LegoAlchristmas> That's a sentance, not a summary.
[20:03] <Darkheart3> Please do
[20:03] <Keyblade0> What about .gifs?
[20:03] <Chitalian> We're keeping DE's renders.
[20:03] <Darkheart3> Yay!
[20:03] <Chaser> yes we are
[20:03] <KRCCFNF> Yes.
[20:04] <LegoAlchristmas> Wait,
[20:04] <Keyblade0> Okay.
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[20:04] <Chitalian> Am I the only one partial to putting an "Action" render in the character's Abilities section?
[20:04] <Darkheart3> Lego?
[20:04] <LegoAlchristmas> they won't be used for the head image, though.
[20:04] <Chainoffire_> does the wiki allow fan-made TBS?
[20:04] <KRCCFNF> NO.
[20:04] <Keyblade0> TBS?
[20:04] <Darkheart3> Off-Site
[20:04] <KRCCFNF> *No.
[20:04] <LegoAlchristmas> No matter how crappy an official render is, Kryten still makes a good point.
[20:04] <Chaser> we can, look at the twilight thorn render
[20:04] <Chitalian> http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Xemnas_Final_Form_Render_%28Action_1%29_KHII.png For example, putting that image in Xemnas' Abilities section?
[20:04] <@ErryK> Yes, only if they're hosted off-site.
[20:04] <Chainoffire_> talk bubble sprites
[20:04] <Keyblade0> Oh okay.
[20:04] <@maggosh> One moment.
[20:04] <@Ankou> TBS are all hosted off-site, official or otherwise, as far as I remember.
[20:05] <Darkheart3> Even official?!
[20:05] <Chainoffire_> yes, but will they be allowed?
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[20:05] <KRCCFNF> I think that, if the render is posed similarly to the useless/ incomplete official image, it should be used.
[20:05] <Chitalian> OFF-SITE, GUYS
[20:05] <@Ankou> Chain, they will be, because templates RELY on talk bubble sprites. That means,
[20:05] <@Ankou> they can't be uploaded on the wiki.
[20:05] <@Ankou> But you can link them from Photobucket.
[20:05] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Well, what about using actionr enders as alternate images for the boss page?
[20:05] <@maggosh> http://www.khwiki.net/index.php?title=Forum:SPECIAL_ROUNDTABLE:_COMMUNITY_FUSION&t=20111223040107
[20:05] <Chitalian> DE, I agree.
[20:05] <Chainoffire_> thats what i meant, thank you
[20:05] <@maggosh> "...renders are not fanart. They are fan-posed, certainly, but not fanart. It's totally fine to move over all of DE's stuff, I'm just...not totally comfortable saying "his art has to be on every single page", for various reasons. If the official art is totally unusable, then fan-renders are fine. Otherwise, they should go on a gallery page like all of the other art."
[20:05] <@maggosh> \--Kryten
[20:05] <Chitalian> Again, or putting them in Abilities section.
[20:06] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> or both
[20:06] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We can find a place for them
[20:06] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> not neccesarily in the infobox
[20:06] <Keyblade0> Oh yeah...speaking of galleries...
[20:06] <Chitalian> And again, most of the galleries that you guys have are more expansive than ours.
[20:06] <LegoAlchristmas> What Kryten via maggosh said.
[20:06] <Darkheart3> I agree with DE, put Action Renders in Boss pages
[20:07] <Chitalian> By the way
[20:07] <Chitalian> http://www.khwiki.net/File:DaysRoxas.png
[20:07] <Chitalian> Images like that? Yeah, they go up for deletion.
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> asdfjkl;
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> No.
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> Keep all of those.
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> THey're official images.
[20:07] <@maggosh> Exactly.
[20:07] <Chitalian> Well, somebody's gotta go around removing the delete tag >.>
[20:07] <@maggosh> Who put it up for deletion, anyway?
[20:07] <@Ankou> I thought even the official ones were hosted offsite? Or that's what I heard aroudn the grapevine?
[20:07] <KRCCFNF> @Lego - That one has been editted.
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> I am of the opinion that EVERY single OFFICIAL Kingdom Hearts image should be on the wiki.
[20:07] <LegoAlchristmas> TI: I know.
[20:08] <@Ankou> My first guess would be Kryten or Neumannz, but I might be very wrong.
[20:08] <Chitalian> How was it edited now?
[20:08] <LegoAlchristmas> Unless we can get our hands on the originals.
[20:08] <@Ankou> Very, very wrong.
[20:08] <LegoAlchristmas> The red bar below it was cropped.
[20:08] <@ErryK> Plus, your renders could be used for the wiki walkthroughs instead of infoboxes.
[20:08] <KRCCFNF> IT SHOULD HAVE A RED BAR ON THE BOTTOM.
[20:08] <Chitalian> Cropped =/= editing.
[20:08] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Lemme get you guys an example of images that I can replace:
[20:08] <Darkheart3> And it was flipped
[20:08] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> http://www.khwiki.net/File:Twilight_Thorn_KHII.png your image
[20:08] <LegoAlchristmas> That's correct.
[20:08] <KRCCFNF> THEREFORE, EDITTED.  PLUS IT WAS REFLECTED.
[20:08] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> See how its cute in the scarf
[20:08] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Twilight_Thorn_Render_(Action)_KHII.png OUR image
[20:08] <LegoAlchristmas> I've been trying to get the Twilight THorn image fixed for years.
[20:09] <LegoAlchristmas> Absolutely, use the fan render.
[20:09] <@Ankou> On the boss page, hopefully?
[20:09] <HikariKH> For attack description?
[20:09] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Yes. Its the only page the T.thorn gets
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[20:09] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> In the infobox, I'd say
[20:09] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> the current T.Thorn image is cut off
[20:10] <Chaser> also another example:
[20:10] <Keyblade0> Okay...as I was going to say earlier.....since I really need clearing up on this...
[20:10] <@maggosh> Brb, guys.
[20:10] <Keyblade0> Why is it that one page (like the article on Sora) has a gallery on a seperate page, and other pages (Like pete) has the gallery on the same page?
[20:10] <Chaser> http://www.khwiki.net/images/1/1f/Armor_of_the_Master_KHBBSFM.png
[20:10] <Chaser> official render
[20:10] <Chitalian> Low-quality
[20:10] <Chaser> http://www.khwiki.net/images/3/3c/MA_Mentor_of_Light.png one used in the "icon"
[20:10] <Chaser> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110724015429/kingdomhearts/images/1/1f/Armor_of_the_Master_KHBBSFM.png
[20:11] <Darkheart3> much better
[20:11] <Chaser> yes it matches the images in the icon
[20:11] <LegoAlchristmas> It looks better, ues.
[20:11] <LegoAlchristmas> *yes.
[20:11] <LegoAlchristmas> BUt the official render is perfectly usable.
[20:11] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Much more color fidelity as well
[20:11] <LegoAlchristmas> It's a little grainy, but it isn't bad.
[20:11] <@Ankou> I agree with LA.
[20:11] <@Ankou> I'm good with that, although I can't help but feel that some parts are a bit too sharp for my liking...
[20:11] <@Ankou> by too sharp, I'm talking about the fan render.
[20:11] <HikariKH> Agreeing with LA
[20:11] <@Ankou> Also,
[20:12] <@ErryK> So what... did we agree on using the fanposed renders for the walkthroughs in exchange of those that are used on legitimate articles?
[20:12] <Chitalian> http://www.khwiki.net/images/2/20/Riku_Replica_KH.png This is bad.
[20:12] <@Ankou> I don't remember the E on Eraqus' teeth being completely paper thin (on AM's fan render.)
[20:12] <@Ankou> Eraqus' keyblade's teeth*
[20:12] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> That's the model, I must say
[20:12] <LegoAlchristmas> That isn't bad at all, Chitty.
[20:12] <@ErryK> That's the PSP's rendering.
[20:12] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> ^
[20:12] <Chitalian> Look at his hands.
[20:12] <@Ankou> They look decent to me.
[20:12] <Keyblade0> Yup.
[20:12] <@Ankou> The first thing that stood out was the graininess.
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> Same, they look fine.
[20:13] <Chitalian> It looks messy.
[20:13] <@Ankou> But show us the other render, please.
[20:13] <Chitalian> There are missing pixels.
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> THe HANDS look messy.
[20:13] <Chainoffire_> its very bright too
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> But that image is large and clear enough to convey its subject.,
[20:13] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> There's no other render, yet
[20:13] <Darkheart3> ^
[20:13] <@Ankou> Well, if someone can reextract this one but with better pixelage,
[20:13] <@Ankou> we can solve the problem, can we not?
[20:13] <HikariKH> Think so
[20:13] <Keyblade0> I believe we can.
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> Absolutely.
[20:13] <@ErryK> Guys...
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> The question is:
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> Where did that image come from.
[20:13] <@ErryK> [04:12] ErryK So what... did we agree on using the fanposed renders for the walkthroughs in exchange of those that are used on legitimate articles?
[20:13] <Keyblade0> Yes, EK?
[20:13] <LegoAlchristmas> THat's another thing.
[20:13] <@maggosh> Ankou: You mean antialiasing, correct?
[20:14] <LegoAlchristmas> Our images need to be cited.
[20:14] <@Ankou> Maggosh: Yes.
[20:14] <LegoAlchristmas> this has nothing to do with the merge.
[20:14] <@Ankou> ErryK: I wouldn't think for all of them, no.
[20:14] <LegoAlchristmas> It's just something I think needs to be done.
[20:14] <@Ankou> I would still think, the better image is used, and if the official render is better, it stays.
[20:14] <LegoAlchristmas> Erry: I see nothing wrong with using fanrenders on walkthroughs.
[20:14] <@Ankou> If not, the other image goes on.
[20:14] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> So
[20:14] <LegoAlchristmas> Walkthroughs are technically fan-concieved anyway, in terms of style.
[20:15] <@Ankou> He was talking about using them on articles....
[20:15] <@Ankou> Actual ones.
[20:15] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111009203453/kingdomhearts/images/7/7d/Xemnas_Render_%28Action_1%29_KHII.png dont you agree this would fit a boss page or boss box better than the normal one?
[20:15] <@Ankou> Erm.....
[20:15] <@maggosh> I agree.
[20:15] <@Ankou> It's actionish, but I find this a bit dull.
[20:15] <Keyblade0> YES.
[20:15] <@ErryK> No no no no no, I meant using them on the walkthroughs IN EXCHANGE of the legitimate render that is USED on the article.
[20:15] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> not as dull as the current ones
[20:15] <@maggosh> Maybe you pose his face?
[20:15] <Keyblade0> Er...I mean....Yes, we should use that.
[20:15] <LegoAlchristmas> I agree with Ankou.
[20:15] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> I posed his face
[20:15] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> he's smiling otherwise
[20:16] <Chitalian> Guys, Xemnas is emotionless.
[20:16] <@maggosh> I mean more.
[20:16] <Chitalian> =.=
[20:16] <@maggosh> Narorw his eyes.
[20:16] <@maggosh> *Narrow
[20:16] <Chainoffire_> could we use the one from the JF2012 trailer? or is there not a good enough shot for that?
[20:16] <LegoAlchristmas> It isn't the expression that's dull in my opinion.
[20:16] <@Ankou> It's a question of which is the better image, and we have to pick between the official render and the fan render for each article, we handpick.
[20:16] <LegoAlchristmas> The pose, to me, looks a bit awkward.
[20:16] <@maggosh> The pose could be more dynamic.
[20:16] <@Ankou> And I wasn't talking about the expression.
[20:16] <LegoAlchristmas> But it's a fantastic render.
[20:16] <Keyblade0> ^
[20:16] <LegoAlchristmas> Let's not sit here and decide how good his renders are.
[20:16] <@Ankou> Yes. That can be done for later.
[20:16] <LegoAlchristmas> They're great -- there's no denying that.
[20:16] <Chitalian> Anything else re: images?
[20:16] <@maggosh> Flawlesst.
[20:16] <@maggosh> 7/3
[20:16] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> As long as you dont throw it all to the can...
[20:17] <Chitalian> We won't. If nothing else, they'll go onto galleries.
[20:17] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> I would like to cover music files (images=media)
[20:17] <@Ankou> Alright.
[20:17] <@Ankou> Go on.
[20:17] <LightRoxas|iPod> What's next?
[20:17] <@Ankou> Images.
[20:17] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We actually have the FULL ost of Kingdom Hearts
[20:17] <@Ankou> And media.
[20:17] <@Ankou> And music files.
[20:17] <LegoAlchristmas> We're not done.
[20:17] <Chitalian> So basically
[20:17] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> music samples for all the songs in all the soundtracks
[20:17] <Chitalian> provide the songs we don't have
[20:18] <LegoAlchristmas> What about song articles?
[20:18] <Chitalian> Reupload ones if they are unsatisfactory
[20:18] <LegoAlchristmas> I had a proposal a while ago -- making articles for certain significant songs.
[20:18] <@Ankou> I suggest song articles will be for prominent songs that recur, e.g. Dearly Beloved, Another Side etc.
[20:18] <@Ankou> Dearly Beloved — definite must.
[20:18] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> all our samples are 50 seconds long, with 5 seconds fade in and 5 seconds fade out
[20:19] <LegoAlchristmas> The article would detail when they played -- what their significance is -- what songs use their themes.
[20:19] <LegoAlchristmas> Mostle character articles would fit this bill.
[20:19] <LegoAlchristmas> *Mostly
[20:19] <Chitalian> http://www.khwiki.net/Beyond_the_Door I'm not even sure why we have this song.
[20:19] <LightRoxas|iPod> Music articles are a must
[20:19] <@maggosh> How's this;
[20:19] <KRCCFNF> COUGH http://www.khwiki.net/Category:Songs
[20:19] <KRCCFNF> We've had ALL of those for a long time.
[20:19] <@maggosh> If it appears in 3 or more games, excluding FMs and remakes...
[20:19] <Chaser> http://www.khwiki.net/Category:Music
[20:19] <KRCCFNF> Dearly Beloved was the first article I ever rewrote.
[20:20] <@maggosh> It warrants its own article.
[20:20] <LegoAlchristmas> That's a fantastic example of my idea.
[20:20] <@Ankou> Chitalian: Because it is tied to Kingdom Hearts, though I could argue for you in putting it under Kingdom Hearts (World).
[20:20] <LegoAlchristmas> That sounds reasonable, maggosh.
[20:20] <@maggosh> It's roughly the same principle of the FF Wiki.
[20:20] <Chainoffire_> what about music that isn't tied to a world?
[20:21] <@Ankou> The less significant ones don't get their articles.
[20:21] <@Ankou> One would need the full OST page to read about them.
[20:21] <RoxasNobody> what about boss themes?
[20:21] <Keyblade0> The Twinkle in the Sky music....?
[20:21] <Darkheart3> if there not tied to a world, they are generally character themes
[20:21] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> In wikia we added the boss themes to the boss infobox
[20:21] <Chainoffire_> "Sora's sacrifce"
[20:21] <@Ankou> If a boss theme is linked to a certain character, it  goes on the character/boss page.
[20:21] <Darkheart3> ^
[20:21] <Sox|Simba> we'd have to have a vote for each music, or some kind of line to draw between significant and otherwise
[20:21] <Chainoffire_> but sora also has his own theme
[20:21] <Sox|Simba> the latter is more favorable
[20:22] <@Ankou> Keyblade0: Twinkle in the Sky would probably go for the Lanes Between.
[20:22] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas_Remnant_(Boss) <--- And example of music in the boss infobox
[20:22] <@Ankou> Or the Gummi Ship.
[20:22] <LegoAlchristmas> Why not have an article that lists music?
[20:22] <@Ankou> I thought we already did....
[20:22] <LegoAlchristmas> "List of music in Kingdom Hearts II"
[20:22] <@Ankou> The OST pages do.
[20:22] <@Ankou> Kingdom Hearts II: Original Soundtrack does that.
[20:22] <Keyblade0> But isn't Twinkle in the Sky the name for the world map songs in KHI, II, BBS? Is that going to cause confusion?
[20:23] <LegoAlchristmas> Only these pages actually have information on the songs (and samples of the songs) themselves, rather than just a list.
[20:23] <@Ankou> Keyblade0: We can distinguish.
[20:23] <Chitalian> That'd be a long-ass page.
[20:23] <@Ankou> Are we going to talk about the Gummi Ship, or the Lanes Between now?
[20:23] <Keyblade0> Ok.
[20:24] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> <Dark-EnigmaXIII> http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas_Remnant_(Boss) <--- And example of music in the boss infobox
[20:24] <@Ankou> I know.
[20:24] <@Ankou> Also, I have another question —
[20:24] <@ErryK> Twinkle in the Sky is the KHII music. A variant Precious Stars in the Sky is the KH music, along with Blast Away! Gummi Ship I, II and III. However the Lanes Between is "The Worlds".
[20:24] <@Ankou> Do the OST pages actually have the 50-second samples?
[20:24] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> no
[20:24] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> they dont
[20:24] <@Ankou> Alright. Will it be worth putting the samples in there, or do we leave them for their respective pages, or do we play it both ways?
[20:25] <Crono|Away> TNE :O
[20:25] <@Ankou> :)
[20:25] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> both ways would be perfect, I'd say
[20:25] <@Ankou> Guys?
[20:25] <@ErryK> Do we have pages for the gummi missions in KHFM/KHII?
[20:25] <@Ankou> Yes, we do.
[20:25] <Keyblade0> I believe so.
[20:25] <@ErryK> So then the music would go there, no?
[20:25] <@Ankou> I should think so.
[20:25] <@Ankou> BUT:
[20:25] <@Ankou> What I'm asking is...
[20:26] <Keyblade0> Yes?
[20:26] <HikariKH> ?
[20:26] <@Ankou> Should we ALSO put the music samples on the OST pages too, or should we leave them for their respective "other" pages only?
[20:26] <LegoAlchristmas> tst
[20:26] <LegoAlchristmas> test
[20:26] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Both ways seems better for me, and it cant hurt
[20:26] <LegoAlchristmas> OKay, excellent, I didn't miss anything
[20:26] <LegoAlchristmas> Forgive me, my laptop died.
[20:26] <@ErryK> I think if we're going to put the samples on the OST pages
[20:26] <@ErryK> We should create a huge template JUST for that.
[20:26] <@Ankou> Not necessarily....
[20:27] <@Ankou> If we have the default music player file,
[20:27] <@Ankou> I mean...
[20:27] <@Ankou> music player,
[20:27] <@Ankou> shouldn't a table be able to support it?
[20:27] <KRCCFNF> Why don't we make a Project:Music after the merge, where we'll decide it?
[20:27] <@Ankou> http://wikirby.info/Gourmet_Race
[20:27] <@Ankou> This is an example.
[20:27] <@ErryK> I dunno... that's why I was suggesting a table.
[20:27] <@ErryK> a template*
[20:27] <@ErryK> <_>
[20:27] <Keyblade0> Um...is the wiki going to be in major trouble if we happen to have the full music there?
[20:27] <Keyblade0> Just curious.
[20:27] <@Ankou> No.
[20:27] <@Ankou> 50 second samples = NOT FULL THING.
[20:27] <@Ankou> We're following fair use law.
[20:27] <@Ankou> Even their site does the same thing.
[20:28] <Keyblade0> I know, but-Oh olay.
[20:28] <Keyblade0> *okay
[20:28] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> It'll be alright as long as it doesnt surpass a minute long.
[20:28] <@Ankou> And by table for the music players,
[20:28] <@Ankou> I meant "standard table".
[20:28] <@ErryK> Where's the table on that article?
[20:28] <@Ankou> Hold on, wrong site
[20:28] <@Ankou> I meant to refer to the Wikia.
[20:28] <@Ankou> http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Gourmet_Race
[20:28] <@Ankou> There.
[20:29] <Keyblade0> :D Gourmet Race
[20:29] <@Ankou> Maybe a template might help, but I'm not sure. What do you guys think?
[20:29] <@ErryK> I think a collapsible template would work best.
[20:29] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> that would work in a soundtrack page, I think
[20:29] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> both ideas
[20:29] <@ErryK> Because it'll take a large area of the article.
[20:29] <@Ankou> Collapsible sounds alright, but would it go for all articles where the samples are featured?
[20:29] <Sox|Simba> collapsible tables can wreck a page if theyre too large
[20:30] <@Ankou> Even in the event we put them in the OST pages?
[20:30] == LightRoxas|iPod [47cddace@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.205.218.206] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[20:30] <KRCCFNF> Why don't we make a Project:Music after the merge, where we'll decide it?
[20:30] <KRCCFNF> Why don't we make a Project:Music after the merge, where we'll decide it?
[20:30] <@Ankou> Yes, I suggest we make that move.
[20:30] <LegoAlchristmas> I donp't see why not.
[20:30] <LegoAlchristmas> *don't
[20:30] <@Ankou> Thanks, KRCCFNF.
[20:30] <RoxasXIIILK> ^ ^
[20:30] <Keyblade0> Let's do that then.
[20:30] <Chainoffire_> good idear
[20:30] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We did one in the Keyhole, but it wasnt very supported
[20:30] <@Ankou> Well, we might as well get to it asap.
[20:30] == LightRoxas [47cddace@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.205.218.206] has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[20:30] <Darkheart3> Because no one knew how to do it
[20:30] <@Ankou> So. Decision on media and images?
[20:30] <Chainoffire_> welcome back
[20:30] <Darkheart3> Prject
[20:31] <KRCCFNF> You are welcome.
[20:31] <Keyblade0> WB LR
[20:31] <Darkheart3> *Project
[20:31] == ENX [4b1961f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.25.97.241] has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[20:31] <@Ankou> Ankou So. Decision on media and images?
[20:31] <Keyblade0> WB Eternal.
[20:31] <@Ankou> Chitalian. Somebody. Please respond.
[20:31] == Chitalian [~chatzilla@cpe-24-90-28-165.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]]
[20:31] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> My renders are kept and applied where they are seen fit.
[20:31] <@Ankou> Oh dear.....
[20:31]  * Ankou sighs
[20:31] <Darkheart3> He'll be back
[20:31] <Darkheart3> I hope
[20:31] == Chitalian [~chatzilla@cpe-24-90-28-165.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[20:31] <@ErryK> Project for music, images will be handpicked for renders however all fanposed renders will be kept, any images that appear superior to the others will be replaced
[20:31] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Music collection is completed with our samples and a music project is created
[20:31] <@Ankou> Phew.
[20:31] <Chainoffire_> what dicision needs to be made?
[20:32] <@Ankou> Thanks.
[20:32] <Darkheart3> See. I have the power of foresight
[20:32] <Chainoffire_> **decision
[20:32] <@Ankou> Erry's said it.
[20:32]  * ENX would like to let everyone here know he is currently RE-TYPING his opinion on this whole matter on khwiki.net. He will post an update when he has said his piece.
[20:32] <@Ankou> Alright.
[20:32] <Darkheart3> NEXT TOPIC
[20:32] <@ErryK> .gifs included (however most of ours are superior :P)
[20:32] <Chitalian> Fusing policies.
[20:32] <LegoAlchristmas> I hope it's in agreement.
[20:32] <Chitalian> Ho, boy...
[20:32] <LegoAlchristmas> But anyway.
[20:32] <Darkheart3> Oh on...
[20:32] <LegoAlchristmas> THe next topic?
[20:32] <Darkheart3> *no
[20:32] <Chitalian> FUSING POLICIES
[20:32] <@Ankou> Fusing policies, go on.
[20:33] <Chitalian> Well
[20:33] <Keyblade0> FUSION........so what's the policy?
[20:33] <Chitalian> obviously, we need to be less strict.
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> I would appreciate it.
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> if.
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> .net would be.
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> more relaxed on speculation.
[20:33] <Keyblade0> Yes...?
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> Please.
[20:33] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Chitalian talk from experience in both sites
[20:33] <Chitalian> Such as?
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> It's a little ridiculous on how tight our grip on it has been.
[20:33] <Chitalian> Like, keeping the name "Hunter of the Dark"
[20:33] <Chitalian> ?
[20:33] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> He can tell the difference in policies between us
[20:33] <LegoAlchristmas> Sure.
[20:33] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> I'd like that
[20:34] <@Ankou> I would agree to be a little less strict with Trivia, but not to make the Trivia sections full-blown, for example.
[20:34] <Chitalian> Honestly, the policies aren't all that different. No speculation and all that.
[20:34] <@Ankou> That was our original .net policy....
[20:34] <@ErryK> I think if we are to keep the name we'd have to put our source as the music track.
[20:34] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We do
[20:34] <LegoAlchristmas> I mean, there's a difference between blatantly making things up and making theories with support.
[20:34] <@Ankou> Yes, but we must also know where to draw the line on those.
[20:34] <@ErryK> And I'm sure someone remembers that Lock-On commotion? That's really ridiculous.
[20:34] <@Ankou> I'm aware of what happened at one point...
[20:34] <Chitalian> Basically, allow user talk edits TO A LIMIT
[20:35] <@Ankou> Lots of people found things that they could use to 'support' their theories...
[20:35] <LegoAlchristmas> that
[20:35] <Sox|Simba> ...Chitalian, thats not a real thing
[20:35] <@Ankou> Read in any context, anything can mean.... anything they want it to mean.
[20:35] <LegoAlchristmas> That's not quite exactly what I meant.
[20:35] <LegoAlchristmas> User talk is a completely different wing.
[20:35] <@Ankou> ?
[20:35] <@Ankou> It wasn't user talk.
[20:35] <Chitalian> No, I'm talking about somehting different.
[20:35] <LegoAlchristmas> Oh.
[20:35] <@Ankou> It was actual Talkspace.
[20:35] <Chitalian> Sorry, sorry, meant to press enter a while ago.
[20:36] <Chitalian> But, yeah. Perhaps allow discussion of an article's topic on it's talk page?
[20:36] <Chitalian> Rather than constantly undoing edits and directing people to forums?
[20:36] <@ErryK> Yeah
[20:36] <@Ankou> Still, the question reminds — where is the line to be drawn on speculation, and how thick is it?
[20:36] <Sox|Simba> i agree, that always seemed dumb to me
[20:36] <@Ankou> *remains
[20:36] <@Ankou> (fail!)
[20:37] <LegoAlchristmas> Well, wait.
[20:37] <Chaser> as long as they have proof of some kind?
[20:37] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> its speculation all the time. However, speculation with evidence, while not supported Nomura, has support
[20:37] <LegoAlchristmas> Let's discuss the purpose of article talk pages.
[20:37] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Saying that the Unknown is Gilgamesh, however, is not allowed, of course
[20:37] <Keyblade0> ._. Wait what?
[20:37] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> It was an example of speculation without proof
[20:38] <Darkheart3> And part of DE's obssession with Gilgamesh ._.
[20:38] <@maggosh> Wait, now that you mention it...
[20:38] <@Ankou> Sigh, guys. Topic.
[20:38] <@Ankou> Please.
[20:38] <Keyblade0> Yes.
[20:38] <@maggosh> Yes, sorry.
[20:38] <Keyblade0> ...um...
[20:38] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> I was on topic, to be honest
[20:38] <@Ankou> Yes.
[20:38] <@Ankou> I know.
[20:38] <Keyblade0> On unrelated news...
[20:38] <Darkheart3> And I just couldn't resist
[20:38] <@Ankou> LA, article talk pages.
[20:38] <Keyblade0> KH3D's up for preordering on Gamestop and Amazon.
[20:38] <Keyblade0> Ok, back to topic.
[20:38] <Sox|Simba> off. topic.
[20:38] <Sox|Simba> <<
[20:39] <@Ankou> My first reaction would be to say that article talk pages would be to 1)
[20:39] <@Ankou> talk about the functioning of the page, say if something's gone wrong somewhere.
[20:39] <@Ankou> 2) Clarify bits of information or talk about things that actually happened in the game.
[20:39] <Chitalian> Let people discuss the topics on the talk page, as long as it doesn't stray too far.
[20:39] <@ErryK> Rather than discussion of the actual article itself like (do you think riku's cute?) I've heard that like a billion times
[20:39] <LegoAlchristmas> Yes, Ankou.
[20:39] <@Ankou> 3) Serve as a test template for small sections of a particular article (paragraphs), not pages.
[20:40] <LegoAlchristmas> That is what should be permited on article talk pages.
[20:40] <@Ankou> And 4) Speculation, this is where the question comes in —
[20:40] <@Ankou> What is the line to be drawn?
[20:40] <@Ankou> And how thick is it?
[20:40] <LegoAlchristmas> Speculation and discussion on the subject should be kept to the forums.
[20:40] <Keyblade0> ^
[20:40] <Keyblade0> I agree.
[20:40] <@Ankou> I agree too, because of past experience.
[20:40] <LegoAlchristmas> Nothing is wrong with clarifying information, but stuff like, "THIS KEYBLADE IS SO COOL ZOMG" is just clutter.
[20:40] <RoxasNobody> agreed
[20:40] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Agreed
[20:40] <RoxasXIIILK> agreed
[20:40] <Chitalian> Yep.
[20:41] <Chaser> do people  still used zomg?
[20:41] <Darkheart3> Yep. Agreed
[20:41] <Chaser> also yes
[20:41] <@Ankou> If anyone wants to, say, handle a page overhaul, there is usually the Sandbox or userspace to modify it.
[20:41] <Keyblade0> Yup.
[20:41] <@Ankou> Unless we've done away with our general Sandbox, which I think we have.
[20:41] <Darkheart3> Userpage drafts
[20:41] <Sox|Simba> drafts of pages should always be in a userspace
[20:41] <KRCCFNF> BRB
[20:41] <Keyblade0> Ok.
[20:41] <Sox|Simba> User:Potato/Drafts/name of article
[20:41] <Sox|Simba> or /Lab
[20:41] <Sox|Simba> or whatever
[20:42] <@Ankou> That's fair.
[20:42] <@ErryK> Such as www.khwiki.net/User:Erry/WalkthroughDirectory instead of www.khwiki.net/WalkthroughDirectory
[20:42] <Keyblade0> Yeah....I guess so.
[20:42] <@Ankou> Unless that Walkthrough Directory can be dealt with, and that'll be in a later topic.
[20:42] <LegoAlchristmas> Eh.
[20:42] <LegoAlchristmas> Wouldn't that get really messy though?
[20:43] <@ErryK> How?
[20:43] <LegoAlchristmas> Having drafts of articles... for every article?
[20:43] <Sox|Simba> not every single one
[20:43] <Sox|Simba> new ones, and overhauls
[20:43] <@Ankou> Not really for every article...
[20:43] <@Ankou> Those which need overhauls only.
[20:43] <@ErryK> Yeah what Sox said.
[20:43] <Sox|Simba> unless it's a cut-and-dry article, like an ability
[20:43] <Sox|Simba> which is a pretty simple rehash
[20:44] <@Ankou> Or if say, if a person has a part on his userspace dedicated to article rewrites, he may use the space for any article rewrite.
[20:44] <@Ankou> It may not necessarily be page-specific.
[20:44] <@ErryK> I'm leaving in 14 minutes guys, just saying.
[20:44] <@Ankou> Alright.
[20:44] <Keyblade0> Ok.
[20:44] <@Ankou> I'm leaving in 15 minutes, myself.
[20:44] <LegoAlchristmas> Shoot.
[20:44] <@Ankou> I need to be up at 9.
[20:44] <LegoAlchristmas> We need you guys.
[20:44] <Keyblade0> Aww.
[20:44] <Chitalian> I'm probably leaving soon.
[20:45] <@Ankou> It's a quarter to 2.....
[20:45] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> It seems we wont be able to cover everything today
[20:45] <Keyblade0> THEN WE MUST FIISH THIS MEETING IN 14 MINUTES.
[20:45] <Keyblade0> *Finish
[20:45] <@Ankou> Well, at least we'll have reached some form of decision in three matters.
[20:45] <Chainoffire_> dang
[20:45] <@Ankou> So.
[20:45] <Darkheart3> Verdict?
[20:45] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Yes. What have we agreed on this topic?
[20:45] <Chitalian> Again, follow-up meetings are possible.
[20:45] <Chainoffire_> verdict on what?
[20:45] <@Ankou> One more thing to address:
[20:45] <@ErryK> I knew we should've started the meeting way early at the APPOINTED time.
[20:45] <@Ankou> Speculation.
[20:45] <LegoAlchristmas> There's no way.
[20:45] <@Ankou> Speculation on mainspace.
[20:45] <Chitalian> Relaxing policies.
[20:45] <LegoAlchristmas> We need to discuss this.
[20:45] <@Ankou> How much do we allow it?
[20:45] <@Ankou> Quick.
[20:45] <Sox|Simba> 0 speculation in mainspace.
[20:45] <LegoAlchristmas> We can't end this in 14 minutes.
[20:45] <@Ankou> Now.
[20:45] <Chitalian> Maybe a little speculation in Trivia.
[20:45] <Chitalian> GUYS
[20:46] <Sox|Simba> trivia, sure
[20:46] <Keyblade0> Speculation on the forums.
[20:46] <Sox|Simba> nothing outside of trivia should be speculation
[20:46] <Chitalian> Trivia can allow REASONABLE SPECULATION
[20:46] <Sox|Simba> not leads, not origins
[20:46] <Dark-EnigmaXIII>  ^
[20:46] <Keyblade0> Just be sure there isn't a fan war in there.
[20:46] <@Ankou> I agree with minimal speculation on trivia as long as it isn't full-blown like what happened.
[20:46] <Keyblade0> :{
[20:46] <Chitalian> That has ample evidence to back it up.
[20:46] <Keyblade0> *:P
[20:46] <@ErryK> What Sox and Chit said.
[20:46] <Chainoffire_> trivia only
[20:46] <Chitalian> And trivia should still be limited.
[20:46] <Chitalian> Maybe 1 or 2 points of minor speculation.
[20:46] <@ErryK> What other stuff do we have after this?
[20:46] <KRCCFNF> back.
[20:46] <LegoAlchristmas> I agree.
[20:46] <Keyblade0> ....uh......why is trivia hated?
[20:47] <Chitalian> Template and other general issues regarding coding
[20:47] <Chaser> Template and other general issues regarding coding?
[20:47] <Chitalian>     Includes Main Page revamp
[20:47] <Chitalian> Combining Forums
[20:47] <Keyblade0> Not important?
[20:47] <Chitalian> Walkthrough space
[20:47] <LegoAlchristmas> It's hated because it's pointless.
[20:47] <LegoAlchristmas> PMost of what is in trivia sections can be merged into the rest of the article.
[20:47] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> most of the time
[20:47] <@ErryK> Because if it doesn't fit in the article, it shouldn't be there in the first place.
[20:47] <Chitalian> Combining Forums shouldn't take that long.
[20:47] <Keyblade0> ^Yup. I hope so.
[20:47] <Chitalian> Oh, we also need to talk about the Mirage Arena/Lanes Between.
[20:47] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Basically, what forums from us you want to keep, and what forum from you should we keep?
[20:47] <Chitalian> That might count as a forum though.
[20:48] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> I think the arena should be covered by the Arena owners
[20:48] <Chitalian> Keep Heartless Manufactory
[20:48] <Chitalian> Keep TWTNW/Where Nothing Gathers
[20:48] <Chitalian> Betwixt and Between is a good idea
[20:48] <RoxasXIIILK> The arena stuff can be handled between me and Erry
[20:48] <@maggosh> What'd I miss?
[20:48] <LegoAlchristmas> Let's discuss the most important things right now.
[20:48] <Chitalian> We need to archive old forums
[20:48] <LegoAlchristmas> Mirage arena... not so much.
[20:49] <Darkheart3> Scrap The Beach I reckon
[20:49] <Chitalian> Yep.
[20:49] <Darkheart3> We've got Talk Pages for that
[20:49] <@ErryK> Lanes Between should stay at wikia while Mirage Arena should stay on .net because if we have two arenas on one wiki it's kind of just... enforcing inactivness.
[20:49] <@ErryK> inactiveness*
[20:49] <Chitalian> Frankly, there's no point in talking about non-KH topics on a KH wiki.
[20:49] <Chitalian> Unless it's on the IRC/user talk
[20:49] <HikariKH> The IRC's for that, no?
[20:49] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Well, but we could port over some of the Lanes Between rules
[20:49] <RoxasXIIILK> ^
[20:49] <@ErryK> Sure rules are fine.
[20:49] <Chitalian> Scrap the editcount, maybe
[20:49] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Exactly
[20:49] <Sox|Simba> Chitalian: introductions, notifications of absense, comments to the wiki-goers about non-wiki-related stuff
[20:50] <Chitalian> Introductions: User page
[20:50] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Like the Fall of A Legend forum of DTN leaving
[20:50] <Chitalian> Notifications fo absence: User page
[20:50] <HikariKH> DTN leaving got a forum?
[20:50] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Yes
[20:50] <@Ankou> Guys.
[20:50] <@Ankou> ENOUGH.
[20:50] <Keyblade0> Yup.
[20:50] <Chitalian> We're talking about forums >.>
[20:50] <@ErryK> It got a thread, not a forum.
[20:50]  * Darkheart3 concludes the meeting over
[20:50] <HikariKH> Understood
[20:50] <Keyblade0> <_<
[20:50] <@ErryK> A forum is a whole section, a thread is just one conversation in a forum.
[20:50] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> but Im saying, that really does not belong in TWTNW
[20:51] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> That kind of thread, I mean
[20:51] <Keyblade0> Well....admin stuffs are usually over there.
[20:51] <Chitalian> Which is why I'm all for having the Twilight Town/Hollow Bastion library become a "misc" forum.
[20:51] <@ErryK> No.
[20:51] <Sox|Simba> Chitalian, when i posted my leave on my userpage, i was still being asked where i was a week later
[20:51] <@ErryK> The Library is there for KH-speak.
[20:51] <@ErryK> If we're going to have a new section, it WILL be the misc section.
[20:52] <Chitalian> ._. Well, maybe putting it on your talk page would be good, too. But then again, people can be remarkably inattentive.
[20:52] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> The Beach
[20:52] <@Ankou> We can't have it our "misc." forum because the Library HAS been and still will be our KH-speak forum.
[20:52] <KRCCFNF> I'm very late here, but I think the Lanes Between should stay, as a "Personal Arena", seeing as we have those.
[20:52] <Chitalian> If you guys want it, fine. But I'm just not for the Beach when there's better alternatives.
[20:52] <KRCCFNF> Unless they disappeared while I was away.
[20:53] <@ErryK> We have those but what's the use of it being moved over?
[20:53] <Chitalian> Okay, the difference between Seat of War and HB library is?
[20:53] <@ErryK> It'll just make the wikia wiki not have an arena.
[20:54] <KRCCFNF> ...so?
[20:54] <Sox|Simba> seat of war is for non-canon stuff, like, "i think kh 3 is going to be __________"
[20:54] <KRCCFNF> It's going to change.
[20:54] <RoxasXIIILK> We just need to carry over some rules/policies of the LB to the MA
[20:54] <LegoAlchristmas> Wikia-wikians?
[20:54] <Sox|Simba> hollow bastion is more like, "what is the difference between ventus and vantias"
[20:54] <@Ankou> Which is very reminiscent to TTL.
[20:54] <LegoAlchristmas> Could you please elaborate on the meaning of all of your forums?
[20:54] <HikariKH> That's be nice
[20:54] <HikariKH> *That'd
[20:54] <Chaser> http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Index
[20:54] <Sox|Simba> okay...
[20:54] <Chitalian> Seat of War seems superfluous to me.
[20:54] <LegoAlchristmas> We can go through them and decide what we REALLY need here.
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> WNG: all wiki-related issues, policies, etc
[20:55] <LegoAlchristmas> Some of the stuff can stay on the fansite, honestly.
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> cornerstone hill: game help
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> seat of war: non-canon stuff (stuff that doesnt exist in the series)
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> hollow bastion library: all KH stuff not listed above (canon stuff + questions mostly)
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> beach = misc
[20:55] <Sox|Simba> and betwixt: archived old forums
[20:55] <LegoAlchristmas> Okay.
[20:56] <KRCCFNF> Cornerstone Hill should be kept.
[20:56] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Yes
[20:56] <KRCCFNF> It's a genuinly good idea.
[20:56] <LegoAlchristmas> Honestly, Beach, Seat of war, even cornerstone hill all seem redundant to me.
[20:56] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> We are an encyclopedia about a game, after all
[20:56] <LegoAlchristmas> THey can be left at the fansite.
[20:56] <@ErryK> I agree with cornerstone hill.
[20:56] <@Ankou> Seat of War = Keyblade Graveyard article.
[20:56] <@ErryK> However it does not become a forum.
[20:56] <@Ankou> (Wait. Are you talking about the forums.)
[20:56] <@ErryK> It becomes a page.
[20:56] <@Ankou> (Fail.)
[20:57] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> A page?
[20:57] <@ErryK> Yes.
[20:57] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> how so?
[20:57] <@ErryK> And with the talk page being used for questions and stuff.
[20:57] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> Oh. Kinda like a FAQ?
[20:57] <@ErryK> Sort of.
[20:57] <@ErryK> Like the page will include various tips, hints, etc and any questions go into the talk page.
[20:58] <@ErryK> Then once the talk page gets full, it's archived and new questions and so on.
[20:58] <Keyblade0> I like that idea.
[20:58] <HikariKH> I like it too
[20:58] <@Ankou> I second it.
[20:58] <RoxasNobody> sounds good
[20:58] <RoxasXIIILK> ^
[20:58] <Chainoffire_> what the difference between that and walkthroughs?
[20:58] <LegoAlchristmas> That.
[20:58] <@Ankou> Walkthroughs DOCUMENT progress through a game.
[20:59] <@Ankou> Forums don't.
[20:59] <Keyblade0> ^^^
[20:59] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> This is for specific concerns
[20:59] <@Ankou> I thought that was obvious, Chain. >_>
[20:59] <@ErryK> Let's say we give ONE strategy that is optimum in all ways for the person writing the guide.
[20:59] <@ErryK> However it doesn't work for one member.
[20:59] <@ErryK> He goes there, asks the question and people reply with different, various strategies.
[21:00] <Chainoffire_> thank you erry