11:20 PM <y3804> Hum
11:20 PM <y3804> About the bot voting of Faircoin
11:20 PM <MintPal-Jay> Yes
11:20 PM <y3804> If I reveal to you the identity of the bot voters, could you re-enable the coin?
11:21 PM <y3804> I admit I made a big mistake
11:21 PM <MintPal-Jay> We have made the decision to temporarily ban it for 24 hours (around 21 hours left now), we'll have to stick with that
11:21 PM <y3804> I created 119 accounts
11:21 PM <y3804> using hushmail and 10minutemail
11:21 PM <y3804> no joke
11:21 PM <y3804> using a private VPN
11:21 PM <y3804> I then created a FiddlerScript to vote consistently, reinjecting the cookies into each subsequent requests
11:22 PM <MintPal-Jay> We've noticed :)
11:22 PM <y3804> I can give you a list of my accounts + the DGB account
11:22 PM <y3804> DGB addresses
11:22 PM <y3804> Yeah sure, but I started voting with those accounts yesterday at 11:00PM EST
11:22 PM <MintPal-Jay> I'm afraid that's not going to help
11:22 PM <MintPal-Jay> Of course, you're not the only one to think of that
11:22 PM <y3804> I fail to see how I voted more than,.. 15K times6
11:23 PM <y3804> If you remove my votes, ban my accounts
11:23 PM <y3804> I promise I won't bot vote
11:23 PM <y3804> It's not a very complicated issue tbh
11:23 PM <MintPal-Jay> We found some other accounts who started doing that as far as a week ago, it became more apparent in the past 48 hours.
11:23 PM <MintPal-Jay> Well I'm sorry, it's the penalty that has to be paid for trying to cheat
11:24 PM <MintPal-Jay> Your community is not helping in any way either
11:24 PM <y3804> Yup, seems to be the case, haha.. I had to add a random delay of 1s to 10s between each vote to appear more 'legit'
11:24 PM <y3804> Well
11:25 PM <y3804> Why don't you sit down and start coding some bot prevention checks?
11:25 PM <y3804> You know, I'm not a very smart dude, but if I can do it, anyone can
11:26 PM <MintPal-Jay> Whatever we do, people like you will try to get around it, we do now have a good way of detecting it
11:26 PM <y3804> How?
11:26 PM <y3804> I'm very curious
11:26 PM <y3804> ;P
11:27 PM <MintPal-Jay> I'm not going to reveal :)
11:27 PM <y3804> Trade history?
11:27 PM <y3804> not enough
11:27 PM <MintPal-Jay> If I were you, I'd admit to the community what you were doing, ask them to come together and vote more strongly together when it's back
11:28 PM <y3804> Nah, I'd get a bad reputation forever
11:28 PM <MintPal-Jay> If you leave it as it is, it's damaging the coin's reputation to be honest
11:29 PM <y3804> Am I the only bot voter for FAC?
11:29 PM <y3804> I don't think so
11:29 PM <y3804> Most people think the exchange should implement more checks, not the bot problem
11:30 PM <y3804> What I would do, if I were you
11:30 PM <y3804> is do a public announcement where you state that you have coded more checks to prevent almost all bot voting
11:31 PM <y3804> And yes, even if you say that people like me try to get around, at some point there is just too much overhead and I would give up
11:33 PM <MintPal-Jay> Of course, over time we will implement better measures, but it will still leave some way of cheating open, it is impossible to guard that complete. If there is a way to cheat, it doesn't mean you should take advantage of it.
11:34 PM <y3804> That's not what I said. If there is a way to cheat and it is easy enough to take advantage of it, why not. But anyway, I think with your recent detection changes it should work fine
11:35 PM <y3804> Anyway, i'm out. I was here to remove the 24H delay, but since you won't remove it, I have no reason to stay here
11:40 PM <y3804> Also, it's very hard to believe that the other coins with 40k votes are legit.. you're not stripping their votes because the vote rate is lower?
11:41 PM <y3804> Or because you couldnt detect the fake votes until they got to 40k+
11:41 PM <MintPal-Jay> Most of their votes were accumulated in the past, they have not gained thousands a day.
11:43 PM <y3804> last question
11:44 PM <y3804> what % of the votes in FAC were bot voted? you said that the community wasn't helping, is there a number?
11:45 PM <y3804> because as I said, I only voted about 8K times
11:45 PM <y3804> Probably less. 119 accounts in 18 hours can't generate that much votes.
11:46 PM <y3804> And the vote counter was near 56K, so 56K - 8K is 48K. If you strip 80%, we're back to 21K.
11:46 PM <MintPal-Jay> We don't have an exact number, but we believe it to be in the tens of thousands
11:46 PM <y3804> Then please verify
11:48 PM <y3804> My suggestion is to strip only the bot votes. Now, you said that you have a bot detection, if it's good, detect the bot votes and strip them. Leave the legit votes. Removing 80% is arbitrary
11:50 PM <y3804> This doesn't make sense. If I want to destroy the competition, I could start bot voting for other coins and have them 80% of their votes stripped?
11:51 PM <y3804> That's a very severe consquence
11:52 PM <MintPal-Jay> We simply don't have an exact number for the bots votes vs genuine vote, we chose 80% as we think it takes into account the penalty of trying to cheat the system.
11:53 PM <y3804> Then that's bad logic
11:53 PM <MintPal-Jay> It's easy to solve that issue, we're aware people might think to do this, but from now on we will remove the bot totals we can count. It will not make any headway at all
11:53 PM <MintPal-Jay> Coming from the person who think it's fine to vote with 120 accounts :)
11:53 PM <y3804> I don't think it's fine
11:54 PM <y3804> But seriously, 80%
11:54 PM <y3804> You want me to feel bad for the anger I create in other community voters?
11:54 PM <y3804> If there's only 8K bot votes
11:54 PM <y3804> then remove those 8K and leave the 48K alone
11:54 PM <MintPal-Jay> Well I can't say you don't deserve it sadly
11:54 PM <y3804> It's not about ME
11:55 PM <y3804> You shouldn't make the other voters suffer because of what I'VE done
11:55 PM <y3804> This is about your reputation
11:55 PM <y3804> Now this is a real request
11:56 PM <y3804> Please try to find an approximate number of bot voters, I don't know what your criteria are, but don't remove 80%
11:56 PM <y3804> I'll repeat it. I should not be responsible for the coins failure.
11:57 PM <y3804> 1 bot voter vs 50% legit voters? And you strip 80%? That's just ridiculous. Please consider what I'm suggesting for a moment
12:00 AM <MintPal-Jay> Sorry, we've already made the call
12:00 AM <y3804> Who cares
12:01 AM <y3804> You're unprofessional, Jay
12:02 AM <y3804> 80% is arbitrary and I should not be held responsible for an entire coin community with 500+ legit, hard working voters
12:02 AM <y3804> You don't even want to supply me with a real amount of bot votes
12:03 AM <y3804> On the official thread everyone is now sending you e-mail about bot voting and how they won't trade on Mintpal anymore
12:03 AM <y3804> via the ticket  system
12:05 AM <MintPal-Jay> If you're going to start name calling, then the conversation is over.
12:05 AM <y3804> Hey
12:05 AM <MintPal-Jay> Yes, obviously we don't like to see the unhappy users, but it is reflecting much worse for the coin.
12:05 AM <y3804> I won't name call
12:05 AM <y3804> BUT
12:05 AM <y3804> I write 100 words and you answer with
12:05 AM <y3804> "Sorry, we've already made the call"
12:05 AM <y3804> You want to dismiss it
12:05 AM <y3804> We both know you don't give a sh**
12:06 AM <y3804> I'm asking you to
12:06 AM <MintPal-Jay> I've already made it clear that we've decided what to do, and we're not going to change it
12:06 AM <y3804> Is there a reason why?
12:06 AM <y3804> Your decision is probably not the best decision
12:07 AM <y3804> You're not very open-minded
12:07 AM <y3804> if you won't even consider what I'm suggesting
12:07 AM <y3804> without offering a reason
12:08 AM <y3804> Do you want me to post this chat log on bitcointalk?
12:08 AM <MintPal-Jay> With respect, it's our business and we will try make the calls that are in our best interest. We believe what you were doing with the cheating was more damaging
12:09 AM <y3804> You're not answering my question
12:09 AM <y3804> Again, dismissing it
12:09 AM <MintPal-Jay> That proves you cheated? Sure, go for it
12:09 AM <y3804> I don't care about cheating
12:09 AM <y3804> Someone did, that's it
12:09 AM <y3804> But
12:09 AM <y3804> it's about the fact that you won't even CONSIDER
12:09 AM <MintPal-Jay> Then admit it publicly
12:10 AM <y3804> Dude
12:12 AM <y3804> I never had so much trouble to have someone answer a simple question
12:12 AM <y3804> is it because it's your 'business'
12:12 AM <y3804> once it's about 'business' it's  like you dont care about moral values
12:12 AM <MintPal-Jay> What are you looking for the answer to?
12:13 AM <y3804> youre trolling me
12:13 AM <y3804> man
12:14 AM <y3804> you want a business decision?
12:14 AM <y3804> I'll pay you 2BTC and you put it back to 48K
12:15 AM <y3804> and remove the delay
12:15 AM <MintPal-Jay> I don't want your coins
12:15 AM <y3804> how does that sound
12:15 AM <y3804> alrihgt.
12:15 AM <y3804> well
12:15 AM <y3804> then please send me back the 0.1BTC I invested
12:16 AM <y3804> you prob wont even do it
12:16 AM <MintPal-Jay> With pleasure, what address did you send it from?
12:16 AM <y3804> because it isn't with your business' best interest
12:19 AM <y3804> do you consider yourself a human with good moral values?
12:19 AM <MintPal-Jay> Yes, since I am not taking your 2 BTC bribe, you have no morals for even offering it
12:19 AM <y3804> because your decision clearly show the opposite. greed. that's what you are Jay, a greedy, close-minded geek behind his computer
12:20 AM <y3804> your decision of not rewarding the hours of efforts of community voters
12:21 AM <y3804> and instead doing what is the simplest for you, the less time expensive decision
12:21 AM <MintPal-Jay> If you want your payment back, send me the address and provide some proof that you sent it, else I'm done here
12:22 AM <y3804> you don't even care. holy f***. you have absolutely no morals. i only find people like this in the cryptocurrency world
12:22 AM <y3804> you prob dont give a shit about your customers either
12:23 AM <y3804> how you can run a business is beyond me
12:23 AM <y3804> yes, you are done here, because you want to escape this situation
12:23 AM <y3804> you want to dismiss my concerns
12:23 AM <y3804> do what you think is best for your 'business', Jay
12:24 AM <MintPal-Jay> Giving you a last chance to recover your payment
12:24 AM <y3804> a last chance?
12:25 AM <y3804> what, because if I miss this 'chance', you won't ever send it to me again?
12:27 AM <y3804> do know that  you made some people very angry today. Don't try to shift the blame on me. Your exchange didn't have the correct preventive checks to ban bots. That is at least something we can agree on