General Jarkev: Shadow
shads: ?
General Jarkev: I just got back from being out of town for 1 week
General Jarkev: Are you available to negotiate?

shads: At the moment? I can't, discussing stuff with FC atm
General Jarkev: What do you mean discussing with FC?
shads: We're going to joint declare war on the great mighty Vaktovia.
General Jarkev: That's funny.
shads: Nah, just diplomacy stuff
General Jarkev: This war is going to be only a one on one, and since you have failed to even get on for a decent amount of time to actually sit down and discuss things, only God knows when negotiations will end.
shads: Okay, done talking to them
shads: Bballer and I are ready
Your chat with General Jarkev is now a multi-user chat.
B̸EƘTØR entered chat.
General Jarkev: Just invite bballer if you really want him.
General Jarkev: However, we will want to begin ASAP.
bballer909/Kapcan has been invited to chat.
bballer909/Kapcan entered chat.
shads: Ready.
B̸EƘTØR: Since most of the Generals aren't online we haven't gathered a majority but we can discuss some elements.
B̸EƘTØR: First of all, what's this about Frost Clan?
shads: *passes question*
shads: Next?
B̸EƘTØR: You can't pass a question, we deal with one thing at a time.
bballer909/Kapcan: Nothing you need to worry about, comrade.
shads: I'm kidding.
shads: No, we were discussing an issue related between FoA - FC.
shads: Nothing to do with VAK.
shads: It took like 4 minutes to talk about.
General Jarkev: Let's cut down on the jokes and get straight down to business.
shads: Of course.
shads: What shall we bring up first?
B̸EƘTØR: You can decide.
bballer909/Kapcan: The SMO negotiations
bballer909/Kapcan: We have to finish them
shads: So we have the list of the responses you gave and all
shads: I've looked over most of them
shads: The older one you gave us I believe,
shads: Bballer says there was a new list given to you with new responses?
B̸EƘTØR: There will be more things to come with your base.
B̸EƘTØR: Bballer gave me a list of requests you have.
shads: Can you show me what was said/and responses?
bballer909/Kapcan: Bisho can you show us the list and your responses
bballer909/Kapcan: That I gave you
B̸EƘTØR: 00:09 - bballer909/Kapcan: - 10 v 10 or meet halfway @12 v 12 -- SMO is designed for a 15 v 15. The layout of the base requires more than 10 or 12 to secure the various points of entry. (Remove atac as a strategic point to decrease the need for more people to be used to defend the base)
00:10 - bballer909/Kapcan: - towards raider side there is a giant rocky hill with a tree on it, remove the ability to climb up from the front side and add the steps closer towards our side rather then the far left side --The ramp closest to the raider obby side can be removed. (We will lower down the arc at our spawn that is used to shoot/spawnkill raiders from afar if you remove this feature which allows VAK to spawnkill as well.)
00:11 - bballer909/Kapcan: - remove the arch outside of the vak cliff spawn area otherwise SH2 will have something similar to that -- Reapers allow you to hit anyone from their arch, ours only helps with getting out of a spawntrap (and is not used for th
- remove atac --No, this removes a common entrance for either side to enter in to the terminal room, it's not like it's hard to hold the ATAC entrance.
00:11 - bballer909/Kapcan: - remove backpassage (behind building) --No, it is a common way to enter in to the main entrance of the base and will cut of an entire way around the courtyard. (An option to remove for a successful 12v12)
00:13 - bballer909/Kapcan: Remove VAK's access to the cliff at the back of the base (Secret update, was made before the war began )
00:14 - bballer909/Kapcan: - move gates towards the middle and make it even  --No, the gate is already even in terms of distance to the spawns, it only looks un-even due to the wall lengths.
(The wall has numerous advantages in favor of VAK, Such as wall length in order to rush the gate tower, and cover on the eastern side so that VAK can stack and gain control of the gate before raiders)
00:15 - bballer909/Kapcan: The global chat denial and the officer chat between both sides approval was already disucssed and approved
B̸EƘTØR: 04:22 - bballer909/Kapcan: Also, since we're all focused on midpoint, the VAK who get on that arc may shoot at our backs which are unprotectedf because we're focused on the VAK ahead of us ready to contest the midpoint
04:23 - bballer909/Kapcan: And as said before, we cannot defend ourselves against those VAK who get on midpoint because our side of the arc is bare, and without cover
04:23 - bballer909/Kapcan: Also cuck me
B̸EƘTØR: Not sure what the 'cuck me' was about.
General Jarkev: Can you guys make an organized list that does not jumble everything together?
shads: I mean, I have one, just looking at this one first.
General Jarkev: Sometimes bballer seems to reply to some of the points and other times does not respond.
General Jarkev: Hello?
shads: We're here
shads: Just studying the responses
shads: We're trying to discuss the numbers at the moment
shads: We want a 12v12 for both forts, although since VAK hasn't been very flexible on the numbers, what can we do to lower it?
B̸EƘTØR: Why specifically?
shads: Why what? Why we want a 12v12?
B̸EƘTØR: Yes.
shads: We want this war to go on, but not too far off out of the summer. I think fights would be more intense and more fun if we do a 12v12, making more servers for both forts.
shads: Getting servers official on both sides perhaps,
shads: All that jazz.
shads: We want to be able to incorporate everyone into this war, and no one to be left out. And I'm sure you do as well.
shads: Hello?
General Jarkev: One moment
shads: ?
General Jarkev: Alright,
shads: Alright..?
General Jarkev: A solution to the issue regarding doing a 12v12 at both bases would need to result in some tweaks to SMO's layout as well as some adjustments to your base. There will need to be more cover added at certain locations, such as in the terminal and areas preceding it, and the raider spawn will need to be moved a little forward. We will also need to test this out to ensure everything is sufficient and up to expectations.
shads: " There will need to be more cover added at certain locations, such as in the terminal and areas preceding it, and the raider spawn will need to be moved a little forward. We will also need to test this out to ensure everything is sufficient and up to expectations."
shads: To your base or mine?
General Jarkev: Your base.
shads: Literally, our base is made for a 12v12, we've changed it so much it's not even stronghold 2 anymore.
shads: Don't even know what to call it.
bballer909/Kapcan: The spawns are completely even
bballer909/Kapcan: Why would you need spawn advantage
shads: I don't know what else you're going to ask of me.
shads: The spawns are perhaps like 2 seconds off or so.
bballer909/Kapcan: There's no point in giving you spawn advantage in exchange for even numbers
bballer909/Kapcan: at SMO
shads: Yeah.
shads: We're not giving you an advantage to make something even.
bballer909/Kapcan: Also which areas would need more cover for a 12v12 to happen
bballer909/Kapcan: The field, the Courtyard, the terminal itself?
General Jarkev: The spawns are for the most part even at your base, however, that does not mean it is a fair base. It is hard to actually hold the base due to the fact it is so easy to flank and go through different areas with little cover in the actual terminal area. Defenders can easily re-cap the terminal.
shads: It's really difficult for us to take the base as it is for you.
shads: It's not easy to take the base/term at SMO either.
General Jarkev: You must understand the objective for the raiders is to hold the terminal for X consecutive minutes, whilst the defenders only have to get one good rush and re-cap it.
shads: So what is your request?
General Jarkev: SMO is completely different due to the fact once you take the base you can hold it rather easily.
General Jarkev: I just said it?
bballer909/Kapcan: So you want more cover at the temrinal area
bballer909/Kapcan: In exchange for a 12v12 at SMO
General Jarkev: No.
General Jarkev: I want that and everything else I said.
bballer909/Kapcan: How much spawn advantage
bballer909/Kapcan: would raiders have
shads: None.
shads: I'm not giving a spawn advantage for even numbers
General Jarkev: We would need an amount that would balance the base due to the fact it is so easy to re-take.
shads: It's not easy to retake, you've raided it
shads: You held it to like 80% or around it.
bballer909/Kapcan: There's literally 3 entrances, and the entrances are easily choke pointed. It's very easy to hold
General Jarkev: You held it to 20% when we had two men not in the battle due to being AFK or DCed.
bballer909/Kapcan: What's left is the skill of the raid team, which is why this war is happening
General Jarkev: When you raided and we defended.
bballer909/Kapcan: How does that prove anything if it was regulars vs your elites
General Jarkev: Bballer, as a tactician, you can not tell me that base is easy to hold.
General Jarkev: And you did not just have regulars there
General Jarkev: Both sides had elites and regulars.
bballer909/Kapcan: It's easy to hold, we've tested it multiple times with even teams. You choke point the entrances and it's a cakewalk
bballer909/Kapcan: What entrances are hard to hold for that base
General Jarkev: Do you really need for me to explain how easy it is to re-take the base?
General Jarkev: Surely you guys are smart enough commanders to realize this?
shads: We're smart commanders.
shads: We've tested out the base multiple times, we've won some, we lost some.
shads: Ultimately, it falls down to your raid or defense team and how well they can use the chokepoints to their advantage.
shads: The jail, the gate, second floor, atac, third floor,
shads: those are all chokepoints
General Jarkev: The base does not have the chokepoints you make them out to be.
General Jarkev: There are SO MANY options.
shads: A lot of options?
shads: With three entry ways?
General Jarkev: Three entry ways into the base, but even more so in the terminal.
shads: 3 [2]
shads: Unless you count the elevation
shads: Which makes it only four.
shads: The elevation at mid*
bballer909/Kapcan: And you can just chokepoint the yellow door and not let us get ontop of the elevation at the midpoint
General Jarkev: So 4 entry ways in to the terminal and 3 in to the base gives the team trying to hold the base a "cake-walk" in terms of holding it?
General Jarkev: Please.
bballer909/Kapcan: .
shads: Okay, let me explain this better for you since you're not experienced with raiding the base,
shads: I'll literally teach you how to win there
shads: Mid -
bballer909/Kapcan: Dont
shads: :\
shads: Anyway,
General Jarkev: Haha.
shads: I was planning on it, but no, Bballer is right,
shads: Let me tell you about the first few times we raided SMO
General Jarkev: Enough with your jokes.
shads: You all made jokes about how we kept losing, but then we started winning there a little more.
shads: It all comes down to experience and strategy.
General Jarkev: Anyone can beat anyone if they raid them enough times and under the right circumstances.
shads: Kaznan,
shads: You presented it to us,
shads: It was literally like my first time raiding there, I didn't know where the fuck to go or what the hell to do,
shads: But I got a tad bit more used to it
shads: That's what happens when you're newly introduced to something, you know?
General Jarkev: I know how to raid your base, Shadow.
General Jarkev: You will not convince me I do not.
shads: If you know  how to raid our base, then there's no reason I should be explaining the chokepoints to you.
General Jarkev: These "chokepoints" are so easily taken over.
shads: You should know that it's not as hard to hold them as you think it is.
General Jarkev: It is hard to hold them, it seems I have more experience scouting out your base than you do.
shads: You can scout our base as many times as you wish.
shads: A war being fought at a 15v15 SMO and a 12v12 SMO seems pretty dumb to us. And i've given my reasoning why.
shads: Everyone should be included into this war, and this way, there will be more of a chance for them to raid.
General Jarkev: ?
General Jarkev: "A war being fought at a 15v15 SMO and a 12v12 SMO "
shads: I mean 12v12 SH
shads: It takes more of our men to raid, and you have left overs to scrap up to form a raid on SH as we raid SMO
shads: If it's even, there will be no issues for either side
shads: I don't see how even numbers could be a problem for either side.
General Jarkev: I see, well,
General Jarkev: We are willing to go with the 12v12 at both bases.
General Jarkev: So long as you meet the demands I just mentioned.
shads: The spawn advantage is a 99% chance of being a no.
shads: The other requests seemed pretty reasonable, let me just copy and paste them really quick.
bballer909/Kapcan: We're not giving you spawn advantage, but we'll concede to making the terminal itself easier to hold.
shads: The spawns are for the most part even at your base, however, that does not mean it is a fair base. It is hard to actually hold the base due to the fact it is so easy to flank and go through different areas with little cover in the actual terminal area. Defenders can easily re-cap the terminal."
shads: Ttom/Bisho, how long does it take to cap the term at SMO?
shads: To make it neutral?
General Jarkev: I do not remember off the top of my head.
General Jarkev: We can test it though.
shads: Mind checking?
General Jarkev: I got someone to check it out now.
General Jarkev: Anyhow, we need the spawn advantage if we are going to use that base.
shads: A spawn advantage, as I see it, would make it overly difficult for the defenders.
General Jarkev: The base can be easily re-taken, saying that the "chokepoints" are really that great is silly to say.
General Jarkev: There is so much cover to go to that you can easily dodge bullets.
General Jarkev: Where as there is so little cover in the actual terminal room.
General Jarkev: It is so defender-sided.
shads: You asked for more cover to be placed, never mentioned removing anything.
General Jarkev: If you are pushing up from all 3 directions, using all the cover to your advantage, as well as perhaps even getting a bit lucky with some random sword rush, you have the terminal easily.
General Jarkev: And you do not have to even use all 3 entrances, there are so many combinations of ways to re-take the base that the possibility of re-taking terminal is very likely.
shads: It took a lot to recap at that one PR
General Jarkev: It takes 33 seconds to re-take the SMO terminal.
General Jarkev: Rather, capture it.
shads: 33 seconds to assume full control, not just neutral?
shads: What I mean by neutral
shads: Is when the bar is still at like 0, but not fully in the VAK or Raider's favor
shads: You know what I mean?
shads: There are also multipliers in the terminal, so the 33 second thing is just one person standing on it.
General Jarkev: It takes 33 seconds if it is previously owned.
General Jarkev: With two people it takes 15-16 seconds.
General Jarkev: Not from neutral.
shads: So a full capture takes 33 seconds with 1 person?
General Jarkev: Yes, if it is previously owned.
shads: Okay
shads: Alrighty
shads: Any other requests to SH?
bballer909/Kapcan: Okay, we'll give you cover at the terminal
General Jarkev: And the spawn advantage.
shads: The spawn advantage is quite unlikely.
shads: Any other requests?
General Jarkev: If you are un-willing to do the spawn idea, then a gate must be raised in front of the base that can be opened/closed. The only way to get passed the gate is by going through it (the gate having been opened), or going over an obby to the left and right of the gate. They would be the same obby, nothing complicated.
shads: We'd rather do the spawn advantage
bballer909/Kapcan: 5 seconds max.
bballer909/Kapcan: Anything past 5 is not going to happen.
General Jarkev: 5 seconds isn't worth it.
bballer909/Kapcan: Then we don't have a deal
General Jarkev: Then SMO will remain 15v15?
shads: A spawn advantage in exchange for even numbers?
shads: That's ridiculous.
General Jarkev: Even numbers is already made, I never said it won't be even numbers.
General Jarkev: You just want a 12v12 whilst we want the 15v15.
General Jarkev: It's even numbers.
shads: The 12v12, you know what I mean.
shads: Cover in the terminal is fine,
shads: But I'm willing to give you a minimal spawn advantage as well.
shads: I think that's more than enough.
General Jarkev: A 5 second spawn advantage is hardly anything to be happy about.
shads: What would you rather have?
General Jarkev: 15 seconds seems fair to me considering how easy it is to re-take the base.
shads: Might as well make you spawn on top of the bomb.
shads: We'll do the gate thing.
shads: No spawn advantages for either side.
bballer909/Kapcan: Alright so the changes to Stronghold are: More cover to term
bballer909/Kapcan: Gates and obbies
General Jarkev: https://www.roblox.com/games/448137359/Testing#!/game-instances
General Jarkev: Go here
General Jarkev: https://gyazo.com/8c172e93870f8ca33f83b7d94b37fd7a
shads: ?
General Jarkev: Is this what you are speaking of?
General Jarkev: About being parrallel
shads: The whole thing it was
General Jarkev: You typing that list?
General Jarkev: bballer
bballer909/Kapcan: Yes.
bballer909/Kapcan: -Remove the Tree mountain near our raider spawn

-Terminal time 22.5 min

-VAK/VAC Obby updates reverted (Can’t get on upper cliff)

-FoA-VAK Officer radio chat tab on the radio just in case they need to commune.

-All ways up onto the raider spawn arch are to be removed and stacking is the only way up there. And an implementation of a interior way up onto it.

-12v12 for both forts

-12 AM EST to 12 PM EST are the raid times/lockdowns.
B̸EƘTØR: 'Remove the tree mountain' I thought you wanted it lowered just a minute ago?
bballer909/Kapcan: Lowered, sorry
General Jarkev: Is there your final list? Nothing else is needed, right? Our developer can begin production soon if so.
bballer909/Kapcan: Yeah
shads: I mean,
shads: I believe that is all, something else may come up, minor tweaks perhaps.
shads: I think we can agree fully and for sure during the time we all sit down and discuss the war terms themselves.
General Jarkev: Okay.
shads: Such as teh amount of wins needed, and all.
shads: the*
General Jarkev: Aye.
General Jarkev: Alright, the stuff on the list is being started soon, will talk to the dev.
B̸EƘTØR: SMO will probably be updated tomorrow when our developers are available.
shads: That's fine
shads: Currently, ours is afk
shads: I think the war can be started Sunday or Monday to be honest
shads: I think we've gotten a lot done today compared to previous times of discussion
General Jarkev: I agree.
General Jarkev: I am happy we could come to agreements.
shads: As are we.
shads: This war should be pretty fun,
shads: We aim to have this war be mostly in the summer, I don't want it to go too far off into the school year.
shads: Any ideas as to how many wins we should do/
shads: ?
shads: I'm thinking DEFINITELY below 100. And anything near it seems a lot as well.
shads: My idea was 60-70 to be honest, don't know if that sounds ridiculous to you all but I want this war to be pretty reasonable.
shads: No war has gotten to a definite 100 wins as far as I know
General Jarkev: Is this your average war?
shads: And thinking about the prestige and reputation our both clans have, I think 60-70 is a fine choice.
shads: What do you mean my average war?
General Jarkev: This determines who is the best clan on ROBLOX, in terms of un-defeated status and all.
General Jarkev: We do not want this to be a short war.
General Jarkev: It needs to determine the victor un-deniably.
shads: I don't think 60-70 is short at all if that's what you're getting at. Any higher numbers I feel like the war would have issues.
shads: What are your thoughts, then?
General Jarkev: We would very much like an endurance war.
shads: There's no way you're going to get an endurance war.
shads: There is absolutely 0 percent chance you're getting that.
B̸EƘTØR: What's wrong with that?
shads: Are you kidding me?
shads: You're telling me you don't see anything wrong with an endurance war?
bballer909/Kapcan: 50-55 raid wins is enough
shads: It's going to go no where.
General Jarkev: It will show who will survive.
General Jarkev: Are you scared of becoming like your former ancestors?
shads: 60-70 wins is my proposal, an endurance war is out of the question.
shads: No, are you scared of actually losing?
shads: This time, being for sure?
shads: If you're not, then prove to me how good VAK actually is.
shads: Because an endurance war won't be happening.
shads: If you have the guts to face FoA in an actual war that will actually show who is the victor, this would be the path to take.
General Jarkev: Well, TGI is shut down now, I'd say the victor is clear, isn't it?
shads: You aren't warring TGI
shads: You're warring FoA.
shads: I've no interest in talking about the past right now, TGI is shut down, but that isn't the point.
shads: 60-70 wins
B̸EƘTØR: We can come back to war terms once the base updates have been made.
General Jarkev: An endurance war will prove who has more endurance, to endure the hardships of the war to come.
B̸EƘTØR: I believe we're done for now.
shads: Alrighty,
shads: Once the updates are done, we'll contact you.
shads: I hope neither side gets too cocky and makes themselves look too stupid after they lose, whomever they may be.
shads: I wish you guys luck in the war, I think it'll be fun.
shads: And It's something thats doable, unlike the rest of the "wars" going on lately.
shads: So yeah, cheers. We'll contact you later.
B̸EƘTØR: Very well, thank you.
General Jarkev: Aye.