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  1. [5:04:05 PM] Jabberwock xeno: thanks
  2. [5:04:23 PM] Jabberwock xeno: should be done catching up wtih chat in a bit
  3. [5:08:47 PM] Jabberwock xeno: How mucb disscusion are you planning on having the plot council stuff entail
  4. [5:10:12 PM] Carson Daly: i don't have a specific plan, as i've said a few tiems
  5. [5:10:30 PM] Carson Daly: i also won't be participating tooo much myself, more moderating than anything
  6. [5:11:02 PM] Carson Daly: basically discussion will last as long as it takes for people to agree on a general opinion, or for me to conclude that the few people who don't share the general opinion understand why the rest disagree with them
  7. [5:12:40 PM] Jabberwock xeno: That doesn't sound like disscusion to me
  8. [5:12:47 PM] Jabberwock xeno: that just sounds like what we have already done
  9. [5:12:59 PM] Jabberwock xeno: which is just spouting opinions without actually disscusing if the opinions are valid
  10. [5:13:12 PM] Jabberwock xeno: The later being what the council plan implies
  11. [5:13:48 PM] Jabberwock xeno: >-Community should decide who gets in and who doesn't, giving proper reasons (no bully pls).
  12. [5:13:53 PM] Jabberwock xeno: >proper reasons
  13. [5:14:03 PM] Jabberwock xeno: people should have to prove that the reasons are proper
  14. [5:14:11 PM] Jabberwock xeno: or at least disscuss them
  15. [5:14:40 PM] Carson Daly: and let me guess, you should be the one deciding which reasons are proper, right?
  16. [5:15:51 PM] Carson Daly: also you may recall that i can do pretty much whatever i want with elections
  17. [5:18:20 PM | Edited 5:18:43 PM] Jabberwock xeno: [5:14 PM] Carson Daly:
  18.  
  19. <<< and let me guess, you should be the one deciding which reasons are proper, right?No. As a collective we should be disscusing if the reasons or valid or not, and after the issue has been disscussed (people bring up claim, other people dispute claim, give reasons why, first grouo of people responds to those, etc) then the collective opinion is gathered.
  20.  
  21. People who are are not giving legimate commentary/reasons (I say no to X person because I feel like it) o who are being voerhwmelingly biased should have their opinion disregarded, since refusing to budge or give reasons isn't "disscusion", and IMO, it would fall into "bullying" per what kyrox described in the council plan
  22. [5:18:46 PM] Carson Daly: you clearly haven't read any of the pastebins
  23. [5:18:51 PM] Jabberwock xeno: I have
  24. [5:18:54 PM] Jabberwock xeno: I've read all of them
  25. [5:19:06 PM] Carson Daly: and you're just going to have to accept that, reason or not, you aren't going to be on the plot council, and nobody cares that there won't be much discussion about it
  26. [5:19:13 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Carson this isn't just about me
  27. [5:19:16 PM] Carson Daly: yes it is
  28. [5:19:18 PM] Carson Daly: straight up
  29. [5:19:26 PM] Jabberwock xeno: No, it's not just about me
  30. [5:20:06 PM] Jabberwock xeno: There are sections about other people as well where infromation is lacking or incorect which should be disscussed where people are biased
  31. [5:20:36 PM] Jabberwock xeno: The plan we voted in CLEARLY says what it says
  32. [5:20:36 PM] Carson Daly: people were told to write up their opinions about the candidates
  33. [5:20:41 PM] Carson Daly: there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion
  34. [5:20:45 PM] Jabberwock xeno: We spent like 4 fucking weeks voting in a plan
  35. [5:20:45 PM] Carson Daly: opinions are, by their very nature, biased
  36. [5:21:03 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Well gee it's a damn good thing the plot council plan doesn't say anything about opinions, but rather about disscusions
  37. [5:21:36 PM] Carson Daly: well gee it's a good thing i'm not obligated to adhere to the plot council and i've been given authority to handle elections however i want
  38. [5:21:52 PM] Jabberwock xeno: And when did that happen
  39. [5:22:08 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Kyrox's thing didn't say ignore the plot council plan
  40. [5:22:11 PM] Carson Daly: when kyrox said so, posted it in the main chat, and then i said "ok so here's the plan i'm thinking of following" and everyone said "that's a good idea"
  41. [5:22:24 PM] Carson Daly: [Thursday, May 21, 2015 4:41 PM] Kyrox:
  42.  
  43. <<< if you feel like it, whatever you do, I don't care, make a voting, a ouija or follow the plan.
  44. [5:22:44 PM] Jabberwock xeno: So then why not just say fuck it all and do it via coordinator
  45. [5:22:51 PM] Jabberwock xeno: why bother to follow the council idea at all
  46. [5:23:01 PM] Carson Daly: because i've only been given authority over the election process, not the actual plot process
  47. [5:23:06 PM] Jabberwock xeno: I'd rather you do coordinator and say fuck it to council then not follow what we voted in fo the council all the way
  48. [5:23:13 PM] Jabberwock xeno: [5:23 PM] Carson Daly:
  49.  
  50. <<< because i've only been given authority over the election process, not the actual plot processWhat
  51. [5:23:21 PM] Carson Daly: did you not read kyrox's post in the plot thread at all?
  52. [5:23:42 PM] Carson Daly: >Carson knows the plan well enough and even if I didn't find him suitable for other tasks I think he's the best person to handle this.
  53. [5:23:54 PM] Jabberwock xeno: You doing it via voting or anything but explticitly what we voted in is already not following the plot pcoress inherently.
  54.  
  55. Making it voting would make it the LOSING plot council option. Why can't you make it the coordinator plan since that lost as well
  56. [5:24:32 PM] Carson Daly: because plot coordinator is not an alternate election plan, it's a completely different thing
  57. [5:24:38 PM] Carson Daly: how about you not be a prick and just trust that i'm good at what i do
  58. [5:24:40 PM] Jabberwock xeno: So is plot council plan 1
  59. [5:24:56 PM] Carson Daly: plot council 1 is not a different plan, it's the same plan with a different election process
  60. [5:26:09 PM] Jabberwock xeno: [5:24 PM] Carson Daly:
  61.  
  62. <<< how about you not be a prick and just trust that i'm good at what i doBecause you aren't doing what we are supposed to be doing and if we are going to throw out what we voted in i'd rather we throw it out entirely rather then just removing the parts that were good.
  63.  
  64. The entire fucking reason I and a bet a lot of other people voted plot council 2 over plot council 1 was epffically because the process for people getting in was disscusion with proper reasons rather then a vote. If we are throwing that part out then in essence our votes are being thrown out
  65. [5:26:52 PM] Carson Daly: "we" aren't supposed to be donig anything
  66. [5:26:58 PM] Carson Daly: i'm not a part of this plot process at all
  67. [5:27:11 PM] Carson Daly: i am kindly facilitating elections because everyone knows i'm the one best suited to run them
  68. [5:27:21 PM] Carson Daly: if you'd like me to pass it off to dunky, i'll gladly do so
  69. [5:27:27 PM] Carson Daly: i have much better things to be doing with my weekend
  70. [5:27:32 PM] Jabberwock xeno: You were asked to MODERATE, to ENSURE that it was being handled the way we voted it in.
  71. [5:27:37 PM] Carson Daly: no i wasn't
  72. [5:27:47 PM] Carson Daly: i was asked to make sure people got elected in whatever manner i felt was best
  73. [5:28:03 PM] Jabberwock xeno: quote what kyrox messaged you again
  74. [5:28:12 PM] Carson Daly: [Thursday, May 21, 2015 4:41 PM] Kyrox:
  75.  
  76. <<< Hey, from what I've seen so far you're probably the best person to handle all this, and after all the discussion you know the plan perfectly, so feel free to take over if you feel like it, whatever you do, I don't care, make a voting, a ouija or follow the plan. Sorry for the responsability!
  77. [5:28:41 PM] Jabberwock xeno: He contradicts himself in that.
  78.  
  79. He says
  80. [5:28:42 PM] Jabberwock xeno: >and after all the discussion you know the plan perfectly
  81. [5:28:48 PM] Jabberwock xeno: but then he says you can ignore it
  82. [5:29:46 PM] Carson Daly: i'm aware
  83. [5:29:55 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Ugh
  84. [5:30:35 PM] Carson Daly: also, as i said, i said in the main chat "here's my plan and here's how my plan will better facilitate discussion about the issue"
  85. [5:30:42 PM] Carson Daly: and everyone said "that's a good idea, i agree that will help discussion"
  86. [5:31:34 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Quote that
  87. [5:36:32 PM] Carson Daly: [Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:09 PM] Carson Daly:
  88.  
  89. <<< the goal is not to say "ok these people said in their opinions that they want dunky on council, so dunky is on council," it's to say "most people support dunky on the council, and here's their reasons why, so @ people who don't support dunky, let's discuss your reasons why"[Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:10 PM] Smokey:
  90.  
  91. <<< this whole pastebin your opinions thing is actually a huge improvement[Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:13 PM] Mehwhatever:
  92.  
  93. <<< Seems like the more logical approach, since nobody will be able to contest the results of the survey that way. Prepare to have your feels hurt tho[Thursday, May 21, 2015 2:41 PM] empty:
  94.  
  95. <<< It's not an election, it's some convoluted discussion thing. And it's that because we voted on it of all things.
  96. [5:36:39 PM] Carson Daly: you should've read all this when you read up on the main chat already
  97. [5:37:25 PM] Carson Daly: also, i've talked about this multiple times today in main chat and nobody has complained about it
  98. [5:40:06 PM] Jabberwock xeno: What you said in chat does not match up what you told me via IM
  99. [5:40:20 PM] Jabberwock xeno: also I have a crazy person banging on my door so I may not be able to be around
  100. [5:40:31 PM] Carson Daly: you could just not answer your door
  101. [5:41:01 PM] Carson Daly: and what i've said on like a dozen occasions now is "other than gathering the opinions given in the pastebins and using them to facilitate discussion, i have no plan"
  102. [5:42:16 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Considering that you speffically told me that you don;t intend on following parts of the plan we voted in, that doesn't seem to be accurat
  103. [5:46:17 PM] Jabberwock xeno: Why are you against enforcing that part of the plan
  104. [6:06:12 PM] Carson Daly: i'm not against facilitating discussion, i'm against telling you that i will facilitate the type of "discussion" that you have in mind, because i know that you won't be satisfied, regardless of the mount of discussion there is, if you don't like the results, and i have no intention of allowing you to sit there bitching for hours after everyone else has reached a conclusion
  105. [6:07:52 PM] Jabberwock xeno: I am not going to hold stuff up past what is needed just because I don't feel it's sufficient. You however are giving me the impression you aren't even going to ensure that it happens to the point where it actually is sufficient.
  106. [6:08:04 PM] Jabberwock xeno: >well how exactly do we define what is sufficient
  107. [6:08:26 PM] Carson Daly: On 5/22/15, at 3:07 PM, Jabberwock xeno wrote:
  108. > I am not going to hold stuff up past what is needed
  109.  
  110. you mean past what you think is needed
  111. [6:09:36 PM] Jabberwock xeno: [6:08 PM] Jabberwock xeno:
  112.  
  113. <<< >well how exactly do we define what is sufficientI can't give you an exact defination, but it is a balenace between what everybody feels to them is sufficient averaged together, and some objective measure of people acutal giving proper reasons and being fair and objective.
  114.  
  115. I don't expect that I am going to be or should be the judge or where the line is, but to me it seems like you aren't even going to bother to prevent the line from being ignored
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