[1:41:30 AM] Jim Jesus: Why do you lie?
[1:54:26 AM] Devan Evans: excuse me?
[1:55:14 AM] Jim Jesus: Did you really read all those books that talk about debunking austrianb economics or did you just randomly compile books you thought would?>
[1:56:23 AM] Devan Evans: the former...
[1:56:45 AM] Jim Jesus: so you've read the Michael Shermer books?
[1:57:38 AM] Devan Evans: you mean all of his books or just the one regarding market fundamentalism?
[1:58:30 AM] Jim Jesus: Mind of the Market
[1:59:10 AM] Devan Evans: ah yah mind of the market, i believe i only read half of that one before i got sucked into, "the cancer stage of capitalism," so i need to finish reading it
[1:59:21 AM] Jim Jesus: what was it about?
[2:00:58 AM] Devan Evans: about how compassion works in unpredictable ways, how competition doesn't always drive people to do great things and the last part i got too was about how incentives are not always predictable regarding money
[2:02:24 AM] Jim Jesus: You do know that Shermer is a libertarian and that that book is about how the free market is a good thing right?
[2:02:24 AM] Devan Evans: if i remember correctly, i think he made a reference to a series of studies regarding highschool students, their ability to achieve in school and the incentive of giving them money... or maybe that was freakonomics...
[2:04:12 AM] Devan Evans: lol, he doesn't say that the free market is a good thing, he states quite clearly that the freemarket is like anything else... in some cases it works and in cases it doesnt, why do you think he is against market fundamentalists like ayn rand?
[2:04:43 AM] Devan Evans: at least thats what i got from his book... like i said i only got through half of it so i might not have gotten to that part
[2:07:58 AM] Jim Jesus: You're full of shit. The book is about the free market being a good thing and Michael Shermer is a known libertarian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71nsZABqoi8
[2:09:59 AM] Devan Evans: ill check out the video at a later date... and you do realize that their adversity in the libertarian party right? I mean not all libertarians believe the same thing.... so just because he is a libertarian doesn't mean he agrees that the market is good for everything
[2:10:39 AM] Devan Evans: but ill check out the video and see if it refutes anything i said
[2:11:02 AM] Jim Jesus: Devin, you have no idea what you are talking about. Not all libertarians are randdroids. not all randroids are libertarians. Not all libertarians are in support of the libertarian party and not all libertarian party members are libertarians
[2:12:27 AM] Devan Evans: i never said that all libertarians do this or that... read my comment again, i know very well that libertarians are just as divercified as christians, if not even more
[2:13:01 AM] Jim Jesus: OK then, so you should know when Shermer is attacking randroids he's talking about her positivism.
[2:13:08 AM] Jim Jesus: not her free market beliefs
[2:14:28 AM] Devan Evans: well wait, doesn't shermer have the belief that the freemarket doesn't work in all areas of the economy and that ayn rand holds that idea much like a dogma?
[2:16:44 AM] Jim Jesus: No.
[2:17:17 AM] Jim Jesus: Objectivism isn't all about polticias and economics.
[2:18:42 AM] Devan Evans: lol, well im not talking about objectivism, im talking about freemarket ideologues, but i guess i might have to re-read that book then when I get around to it though... however i am kinda curious about what it is your talking about when you mean "mythacism hurts atheism" because that statement doesnt make any sense
[2:19:09 AM] Jim Jesus: it touches on sex, alturism, religion, and rugged indiviualism
[2:19:20 AM] Jim Jesus: thats what Shermer was pointing out to be wrong
[2:19:33 AM] Jim Jesus: most libertarians aren't anarchists and they do want some form of governm,ent
[2:19:57 AM] Jim Jesus: Mises and Hayek would be good examples of classical liberals
[2:20:16 AM] Devan Evans: right, i already understand that
[2:20:36 AM] Devan Evans: i am usually talking about the anarcho-capitalists though when i tend to speak about libertarians
[2:20:49 AM] Jim Jesus: then don't, we're a small minority
[2:21:59 AM] Devan Evans: true... but anyways i was wondering if you could expound onto me why you included mythacism as apart of your problem of the zeitgeist movement, because that film has had very little exposition in the movement, in fact the forums on the official site move all conversation about that to the freethoughtnation forums
[2:22:17 AM] Devan Evans: that and the comment about "mythacism hurts atheism" because that makes no sense
[2:22:31 AM] Jim Jesus: first I want you to admit you never read that book
[2:22:39 AM] Jim Jesus: you need to start being honest
[2:22:48 AM] Jim Jesus: and can start here
[2:23:36 AM] Devan Evans: dude i am being honest, i said i will have to re-read the book then... and i also conceded that i may be wrong about shermer....
[2:24:29 AM] Jim Jesus: that book, from start to finish is pro-market and give a biological and sociological argument for it.
[2:24:35 AM] Jim Jesus: stop lying
[2:27:11 AM] Devan Evans: dude i am not lying... like i said, i read half the book, so either i read a book by a similar title or i just don't remember most of the content because i gave up on it to read the cancer stage of capitalism and might be referring to some of his response to arguments to the contrary
[2:28:23 AM] Devan Evans: but in either case i am not lying... and i said i would re-read the book to correct myself, so you could either drop the subject and bring it up again  at another date or you could just remove me from your contacts list, that's all you can do at this point
[2:29:01 AM] Devan Evans: besides... i did confuse the argument given by henry hazelitt with that of mises anyways...
[2:29:02 AM] Jim Jesus: http://www.michaelshermer.com/books/
[2:29:07 AM] Jim Jesus: which one then
[2:29:13 AM] Jim Jesus: only one is about economics
[2:31:45 AM] Devan Evans: ok, just went through my reading list of books I read and it appears i was right, it was a book with a similar take, called "the mind of the market" by charles w. smith... so apparently the wrong author, under which video did i reference the book because i want to correct that
[2:33:53 AM] Devan Evans: eh, nvm ill just check it myself
[2:34:49 AM] Devan Evans: but thx for bringing that to my attention
[2:37:35 AM] Jim Jesus: That book is about stock market stratigies.
[2:37:54 AM] Jim Jesus: Devin
[2:37:57 AM] Jim Jesus: Admit you lied
[2:41:05 AM] Devan Evans: lol, and you got that from where? by looking at the subtitle, conflating with philosophies and disregarded the rest of the subtitle without even bothering to read it?
[2:42:23 AM] Jim Jesus: So I have to read the entire book to know what it's about? Apparently it must be true, you read half a book and walked away thinking it was a critque of the verry thing it proposes as a solution
[2:42:24 AM] Devan Evans: look, if all you just did was message me to continually accuse me of being a liar by jumping to conclusions then it might be worthwhile to stop talking at this point
[2:42:51 AM] Jim Jesus: no, I want you to have some humility
[2:43:11 AM] Devan Evans: right, and i was wrong in that and i admit that i was wrong.... and i know i confused it with another book, it wouldnt be the first time i did that remember?
[2:43:23 AM] Jim Jesus: No you didn't confuse it with another book
[2:44:56 AM] Devan Evans: yes i did... and i admitted that i was wrong about the book... but if you want a confession of something that you are wanting to look for from the very get go then you might as well stop, because i am not continuing this game of "make me admit to something i didnt"
[2:45:01 AM] Jim Jesus: Why would yuou read a hard to find outdated book about stock market socology when you could of read the book hwere he revisits his arguments and provided a more up to date analysis?
[2:45:02 AM] Jim Jesus: Success and Survival on Wall Street: Understanding the Mind of the Market,
[2:45:22 AM] Jim Jesus: http://books.google.com/books/about/Success_and_Survival_on_Wall_Street.html?id=zeo97edO8ZgC
[2:45:50 AM] Jim Jesus: "An update of The Mind of the Market (1981), this book provides an intriguing look at the different ways that "true believers"--salesmen, investors, and market cynics--view, interpret, and evaluate the ambiguity of the market. Smith (sociology, City Univ. of New York) includes practical advice on how to build your knowledge of market conditions and 32 questions that investors should ask brokers before taking their advice on investment decisions. Extensively revised to reflect changes in the marketplace--including additional investment options and the rise of NASDAQ, computers, and networked communications as dominant forces in both domestic and international markets--this is a unique resource that should find avid readers in both academic and public libraries.--Norman B. Hutcherson, Kern Cty. Lib.,
[2:46:46 AM] Devan Evans: lol... it did occur to you that i didnt even know he made an updated version and ill check that out, bookmarked it
[2:47:34 AM] Jim Jesus: Let me know how your portfolio turns out, because you won';t learn any critiques about the Arustiran school in it
[2:47:50 AM] Jim Jesus: nor the previous book
[2:48:17 AM] Jim Jesus: because you just googled the title, found a book with the exact same title hoping I would verify it
[2:48:20 AM] Devan Evans: lol, who said anything about it being a critique solely of the austrian school?
[2:48:29 AM] Jim Jesus: No one, not even me
[2:48:57 AM] Jim Jesus: Well then tell me, what page was there a critique, I'll order it from interliberary loan tomarrow
[2:49:27 AM] Jim Jesus: ohh, actually B&N has a NOOK version for 2 bucks
[2:49:58 AM] Jim Jesus: I'll pay the two bucks to listen to a good critique of the austrian school.
[2:50:16 AM] Jim Jesus: I like challenging my worldview. ;)
[2:52:11 AM] Jim Jesus: ohh it's papeback, my bad. 6 bucks w/ shipping. I can make it happen. :D
[2:53:20 AM] Jim Jesus: lemme know if there's something in there and I'll pick up a copy. I gotta get to sleep, school tomarrow