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Skype conversation with solace

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Apr 9th, 2016
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  1. [4/9/2016 6:59:11 PM] *** Fail-Whale would like to add you on Skype
  2.  
  3. Hi Solace, I'd like to add you as a contact. ***
  4. [4/9/2016 6:59:40 PM] *** Solace has shared contact details with Fail-Whale. ***
  5. [4/9/2016 7:00:14 PM] Solace: hey!
  6. [4/9/2016 7:00:20 PM] Fail-Whale: Hi
  7. [4/9/2016 7:01:00 PM] Fail-Whale: So are you the leader of the people making the decision?
  8. [4/9/2016 7:01:13 PM] Solace: no lol
  9. [4/9/2016 7:01:32 PM] Solace: I was wondering if we could chat about your pastebin?
  10. [4/9/2016 7:01:40 PM] Fail-Whale: sure thing.
  11. [4/9/2016 7:01:59 PM] Solace: do you have outside contact with minecrafting ?
  12. [4/9/2016 7:02:59 PM] Solace: you might be innocent and lie about it because you're afraid of it looking suspicious
  13. [4/9/2016 7:03:12 PM] Solace: but if we find a lie, we usually just treat the case as auto-guilty
  14. [4/9/2016 7:03:23 PM] Solace: because an honest player wouldn't feel compelled to lie
  15. [4/9/2016 7:03:27 PM] Solace: so please be honest
  16. [4/9/2016 7:05:03 PM] Fail-Whale: Sorry i got a phone calle
  17. [4/9/2016 7:05:22 PM] Fail-Whale: No i do not have any contact with Minecraft outside of epicmafia, and i have never communicated with them in any way asking for them to cheat for me.
  18. [4/9/2016 7:08:35 PM] Solace: alright
  19. [4/9/2016 7:09:14 PM | Edited 4/10/2016 7:03:36 PM] Fail-Whale: But according to this message we were lucky
  20. so i was talking to pingu because hes my mentor and also a mod and argued for us so we are not baned below is the skype convo sorry if i got you in any trouble
  21.  
  22. Hi minecraft Sent on: 4:40 pm From: pingu You’re about to get a cheating vio From: pingu But no ban From: pingu it’s the best I could do From: pingu i’ve got the job of explaining what you did wrong so when you’re on just lmk and i’ll talk to you :) hii Sent on: 4:44 pm
  23.  
  24. From: pingu Hiya, basically we think that Shrub won his games unfairly Sent on: 6:14 pm From: pingu To an extent From: pingu We’re not saying you cheated intentionally soo whats going to happen? Sent on: 6:17 pm
  25.  
  26. From: pingu We’ll suspend him from the round. But you won’t get banned like Blister/sinead Sent on: 6:17 pm From: pingu Why is because I’m pretty sure you didn’t cheat on purpose. From: pingu Which I argued (: Give me a sec and I’ll tell you what you did wrong though ok Sent on: 6:18 pm
  27.  
  28. From: pingu Basically here’s the rundown of it:
  29.  
  30. We get you and Shrub are friends and naturally you’d want him to do well. But you have to try and not let that get in the way of games, especially in comp ones which are more serious. We think to an extent, with that intention, you played towards his win condition (if you don’t know what that means, ask me) rather than you’re alignments (i.e. town or mafia). This still to an extent counts as cheating. So we decided to give you a cheating vio just so you know for next time, without giving you the associated ban (: Sent on: 6:21 pm From: pingu Does that make sense? yes Sent on: 6:21 pm that makes sence
  31.  
  32. From: pingu Awesome! :) I just wanted to let you know what was happening and clarify what you did wrong as both a mentor and a mod Sent on: 6:22 pm thank you for helping me (heart)
  33. [4/9/2016 7:09:40 PM] Fail-Whale: I'm not being punished for cheating I'm being punished because the moderating team dont think i deserved to place in the round
  34. [4/9/2016 7:10:15 PM] Solace: I don't think the majority of the mod team thinks you guys role shared
  35. [4/9/2016 7:10:24 PM] Fail-Whale: Probably because we didnt.
  36. [4/9/2016 7:10:30 PM] Solace: I think the general consensus is that there was a slight case of meta-abuse
  37. [4/9/2016 7:10:47 PM] Solace: combined with minecraft playing towards your win condition in place of their own.
  38. [4/9/2016 7:10:56 PM] Fail-Whale: What is your definition of meta-abuse and why is it not listen anywhere in the rules section?
  39. [4/9/2016 7:11:45 PM] Fail-Whale: and i dont think minecraft ever actually succesfully gamethrew against her win condition in any of the games linked in the pastebin. She was going to until Awnyy stopped her, but almsot gamethrowing is not punishable imo
  40. [4/9/2016 7:12:53 PM] Solace: meta-abuse is within the Cheating violation
  41. [4/9/2016 7:13:06 PM] Solace: could you walk me through your thoughts this game?
  42. [4/9/2016 7:13:07 PM] Solace: https://epicmafia.com/game/4997345/review
  43. [4/9/2016 7:13:22 PM] Fail-Whale: Using outside methods to communicate with another player in the same game, using multiple accounts in the same game, taking screenshots of your game and showing them to other players to prove your alignment, or repeatedly playing with the intent for another person to win regardless of your own win condition.
  44. [4/9/2016 7:13:29 PM] Fail-Whale: This is all about rolesharing and gamethrowing
  45. [4/9/2016 7:13:33 PM] Fail-Whale: says nothing about meta here
  46. [4/9/2016 7:13:42 PM | Edited 4/10/2016 7:07:48 PM] Solace: in your appeal, you mentioned that you were able to get a few townreads because of meta
  47. [4/9/2016 7:13:46 PM] Fail-Whale: sure thing ill walk you through my thoughts in that game
  48. [4/9/2016 7:13:50 PM] Solace: on minecraft and megami
  49. [4/9/2016 7:13:58 PM] Solace: I want you to focus on your thoughts about them
  50. [4/9/2016 7:14:15 PM] Solace: what led you to townread them and anything else that's relevant
  51. [4/9/2016 7:14:39 PM] Solace: also what kind of meta did you have
  52. [4/9/2016 7:14:52 PM] Fail-Whale: it wasnt like profile meta or anything
  53. [4/9/2016 7:15:00 PM] Fail-Whale: it was just from having played with them for a few games
  54. [4/9/2016 7:15:07 PM] Fail-Whale: e.g. minecraft flipped blue a lot and complained about it
  55. [4/9/2016 7:15:21 PM] Fail-Whale: Megami essentially isp'd when they were town and tryharded when they were mafia
  56. [4/9/2016 7:15:53 PM] Fail-Whale: I'm not sure how far through my hearts this was, so what i say might be inaccurate
  57. [4/9/2016 7:16:02 PM] Fail-Whale: in terms of the meta i had
  58. [4/9/2016 7:16:04 PM] Fail-Whale: in this game
  59. [4/9/2016 7:16:20 PM] Solace: so in this game, minecraft started with
  60. [4/9/2016 7:16:30 PM] Solace: "uhhhhh why am I always boring old blue"
  61. [4/9/2016 7:16:32 PM] Solace: "so stupid"
  62. [4/9/2016 7:16:40 PM] Fail-Whale: I think this might have been the first game she said this though
  63. [4/9/2016 7:16:41 PM] Solace: which is the kind of behavior you described
  64. [4/9/2016 7:16:51 PM] Fail-Whale: thats why im not sure if it was a meta read this game
  65. [4/9/2016 7:16:58 PM] Solace: oh is that why you scumread them on day 1?
  66. [4/9/2016 7:17:13 PM] Fail-Whale: i mean claiming boring old blue is a blatant scumtell
  67. [4/9/2016 7:17:13 PM] Fail-Whale: to me
  68. [4/9/2016 7:17:36 PM] Solace: minecraft flipped blue a lot and complained about it
  69. [4/9/2016 7:17:42 PM] Fail-Whale: Yea this is definately the first game megami flipped mafia
  70. [4/9/2016 7:17:51 PM] Fail-Whale: so i didnt meta read megami in this game
  71. [4/9/2016 7:18:01 PM] Fail-Whale: aside from the fact that they were playing different from when they were town probably
  72. [4/9/2016 7:18:02 PM] Solace: you said you townread minecraft for claiming blue
  73. [4/9/2016 7:18:17 PM] Fail-Whale: this was the first game she had done this
  74. [4/9/2016 7:18:25 PM] Fail-Whale: thats why meta reading people is risky
  75. [4/9/2016 7:18:34 PM] Fail-Whale: she could have easily fooled me by doing the exact same thing as mafia
  76. [4/9/2016 7:19:08 PM] Solace: alright
  77. [4/9/2016 7:19:16 PM] Solace: on day 3, you changed that scumread to a townread
  78. [4/9/2016 7:19:18 PM] Solace: you said
  79. [4/9/2016 7:19:24 PM] Solace: "my money is on minecraft being town"
  80. [4/9/2016 7:19:26 PM] Fail-Whale: so at timestamp 4:59 i out my meta read on megami that she is playing different to last game
  81. [4/9/2016 7:19:28 PM] Solace: what led to this change?
  82. [4/9/2016 7:19:35 PM] Fail-Whale: I can't remember honestly
  83. [4/9/2016 7:19:36 PM] Fail-Whale: I
  84. [4/9/2016 7:19:41 PM] Fail-Whale: ll reread the game
  85. [4/9/2016 7:19:48 PM] Solace: yes please
  86. [4/9/2016 7:20:10 PM] Fail-Whale: oh thats right
  87. [4/9/2016 7:20:16 PM] Fail-Whale: it was because she was asking qeSuited to orc her
  88. [4/9/2016 7:20:20 PM] Fail-Whale: seemed real
  89. [4/9/2016 7:20:21 PM] Fail-Whale: to me
  90. [4/9/2016 7:20:29 PM] Fail-Whale: like she was actually frustrated to be sr
  91. [4/9/2016 7:21:04 PM] Fail-Whale: d2 and start of d3 btw
  92. [4/9/2016 7:21:40 PM] Solace: okay
  93. [4/9/2016 7:21:47 PM] Solace: lets move on to this game https://epicmafia.com/game/4997370/review
  94. [4/9/2016 7:22:00 PM] Fail-Whale: oh god
  95. [4/9/2016 7:22:06 PM] Fail-Whale: i remember this game
  96. [4/9/2016 7:22:08 PM] Fail-Whale: i got so lucky
  97. [4/9/2016 7:22:56 PM] Solace: on day 1 you said
  98. [4/9/2016 7:23:02 PM] Solace: "don't hammer minecraft though"
  99. [4/9/2016 7:23:11 PM] Solace: why did you think minecraft was town this game?
  100. [4/9/2016 7:23:20 PM] Fail-Whale: similarly her complaining was legitimant and seemed real
  101. [4/9/2016 7:23:35 PM] Fail-Whale: added to the fact that she did similar last game
  102. [4/9/2016 7:23:45 PM] Fail-Whale: i was reasonably confident that she was town
  103. [4/9/2016 7:23:57 PM] Fail-Whale: however i still had the chance to hammer her later if i changed my mind
  104. [4/9/2016 7:24:04 PM] Fail-Whale: so i thought it was a good idea to keep her alive
  105. [4/9/2016 7:24:30 PM] Fail-Whale: My hammer on onion was like a last second decision though
  106. [4/9/2016 7:24:44 PM] Fail-Whale: 60% luck to be honest
  107. [4/9/2016 7:25:00 PM] Solace: but to confirm that minecraft only did something as town (complaining about their blue role)
  108. [4/9/2016 7:25:11 PM] Solace: you would've needed to have seen them flip mafia
  109. [4/9/2016 7:25:13 PM] Solace: and not do it
  110. [4/9/2016 7:25:19 PM] Solace: to know that they only do it as town
  111. [4/9/2016 7:25:23 PM] Fail-Whale: which is why you cant really punish someone for meta reading
  112. [4/9/2016 7:25:27 PM] Fail-Whale: as there is a massive risk involved
  113. [4/9/2016 7:25:30 PM] Fail-Whale: she could have easily been mafia
  114. [4/9/2016 7:25:33 PM] Fail-Whale: i could have been wrong
  115. [4/9/2016 7:25:53 PM] Fail-Whale: do we have the same definition of meta?
  116. [4/9/2016 7:26:17 PM] Fail-Whale: I think meta is using how people have played in other games to get a read on them, is that fair?
  117. [4/9/2016 7:27:55 PM] Solace: yes I think that's how most people define meta
  118. [4/9/2016 7:28:16 PM] Fail-Whale: So meta abusing is like
  119. [4/9/2016 7:28:27 PM] Fail-Whale: only using meta or something?
  120. [4/9/2016 7:29:49 PM] Fail-Whale: The thing that i really dont understand is how me taking a risk and townreading minecraft based a bit on how they behaved in last games means that i cheated
  121. [4/9/2016 7:30:05 PM] Solace: meta abusing is like, unfairly communicating alignments with other players through meta
  122. [4/9/2016 7:30:18 PM] Fail-Whale: what do you mean by unfairly
  123. [4/9/2016 7:30:21 PM] Fail-Whale: like saying
  124. [4/9/2016 7:30:26 PM] Solace: as in with 100% accuracy
  125. [4/9/2016 7:30:27 PM] Fail-Whale: I NEVER CC COP AS MAFIA
  126. [4/9/2016 7:30:35 PM] Solace: yes that would be meta abuse
  127. [4/9/2016 7:30:43 PM] Fail-Whale: and yet i see people say that all the time..
  128. [4/9/2016 7:31:42 PM] Solace: its subjective
  129. [4/9/2016 7:31:48 PM] Fail-Whale: Why is this exact statement not in the rules then
  130. [4/9/2016 7:31:52 PM] Fail-Whale: unfairly communicating alignments with other players through meta
  131. [4/9/2016 7:32:03 PM] Fail-Whale: do people actually get punished for this?
  132. [4/9/2016 7:32:44 PM] Fail-Whale: Megami
  133. tbh hydra tunnels everyone
  134. [4/9/2016 7:32:48 PM] Fail-Whale: meta
  135. [4/9/2016 7:33:00 PM] Fail-Whale: Megami
  136. dude last time you tunneled me you were maf SIT DOWN
  137. [4/9/2016 7:33:02 PM] Fail-Whale: meta
  138. [4/9/2016 7:33:18 PM] Fail-Whale: Megami
  139. im a tryhard when maf
  140. [4/9/2016 7:33:19 PM] Fail-Whale: meta
  141. [4/9/2016 7:33:42 PM] Fail-Whale: Shrub
  142. I scum hunt before I hammer
  143. [4/9/2016 7:33:44 PM] Fail-Whale: meta
  144. [4/9/2016 7:34:02 PM] Fail-Whale: Hydra
  145. should i believe minecraftgirl this time?
  146. [4/9/2016 7:34:03 PM] Fail-Whale: meta
  147. [4/9/2016 7:34:24 PM] Fail-Whale: This is just from most of day 1 in that game you linked
  148. [4/9/2016 7:34:38 PM] Fail-Whale: You could take most games and find a similar amount
  149. [4/9/2016 7:34:46 PM] Fail-Whale: at least games where the people have played with each other before
  150. [4/9/2016 7:35:09 PM] Fail-Whale: Can you fairly expect players to completely ignore all past games and play blindfolded? Especially when they want to trophy.
  151. [4/9/2016 7:35:42 PM] Fail-Whale: Even if they arent neccesarily saying it, i can gaurantee you that every single player who has ever placed in a comp round has used meta in at least 25% of there games
  152. [4/9/2016 7:36:05 PM] Solace: meta is not against the rules
  153. [4/9/2016 7:36:21 PM] Fail-Whale: so how do you distinguish between meta and meta abuse
  154. [4/9/2016 7:36:48 PM] Fail-Whale: And how is it cheating for me to use meta on minecraft in about 2 of the games in the pastebin
  155. [4/9/2016 7:36:57 PM] Fail-Whale: mabye only 1
  156. [4/9/2016 7:37:06 PM] Fail-Whale: I'd have to go through them all to work that out
  157. [4/9/2016 7:39:15 PM] Solace: would you be willing to allow me to examine your pc?
  158. [4/9/2016 7:39:26 PM] Fail-Whale: um
  159. [4/9/2016 7:39:36 PM] Fail-Whale: how would you do that
  160. [4/9/2016 7:39:39 PM] Solace: completely optional
  161. [4/9/2016 7:39:55 PM] Solace: if you refuse, we're not going to think that's suspicious or anything like that
  162. [4/9/2016 7:40:02 PM] Fail-Whale: how would you do that?
  163. [4/9/2016 7:40:04 PM] Solace: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/
  164. [4/9/2016 7:40:12 PM] Solace: you would install this
  165. [4/9/2016 7:40:24 PM] Fail-Whale: what does it do
  166. [4/9/2016 7:40:39 PM] Solace: it allows one pc to connect to another
  167. [4/9/2016 7:40:52 PM] Fail-Whale: I'm not sure im comfortable with that
  168. [4/9/2016 7:40:53 PM] Fail-Whale: sorry
  169. [4/9/2016 7:41:01 PM] Solace: that's alright!
  170. [4/9/2016 7:41:22 PM] Fail-Whale: i dont get how that would help anyway
  171. [4/9/2016 7:44:09 PM] Solace: would you be willing to allow other moderators to see this conversation?
  172. [4/9/2016 7:44:14 PM] Fail-Whale: of course
  173. [4/9/2016 7:44:28 PM] Solace: ok!
  174. [4/9/2016 7:44:35 PM] Fail-Whale: Can you answer this?
  175. [4/9/2016 7:44:39 PM] Solace: thank you very much. we'll get back to you if we have any more questions!
  176. [4/9/2016 7:44:40 PM] Solace: yes
  177. [4/9/2016 7:44:46 PM] Fail-Whale: so how do you distinguish between meta and meta abuse
  178. [4/9/2016 7:45:45 PM] Solace: meta abuse typically is communication of alignment without fail
  179. [4/9/2016 7:46:17 PM] Fail-Whale: so if someone metareads someone correctly twice in a row they are meta abusing?
  180. [4/9/2016 7:46:42 PM] Fail-Whale: or is it something liek Liberonsciens thing how he never lies ingame
  181. [4/9/2016 7:47:25 PM] Fail-Whale: the thing is, to me that means you are meta abusing if you set up a meta that allowed other player to townread you when you are town without fail
  182. [4/9/2016 7:49:40 PM] Solace: your definition is correct
  183. [4/9/2016 7:50:00 PM] Fail-Whale: so if someone metareads someone correctly twice in a row they are meta abusing?
  184. [4/9/2016 7:50:01 PM] Fail-Whale: this one
  185. [4/9/2016 7:50:03 PM] Fail-Whale: or this one
  186. [4/9/2016 7:50:07 PM] Fail-Whale: the thing is, to me that means you are meta abusing if you set up a meta that allowed other player to townread you when you are town without fail
  187. [4/9/2016 7:51:39 PM] Solace: I'm not allowed to say whats discussed in mod chat
  188. [4/9/2016 7:51:47 PM] Solace: but I think your case of meta abuse is flimsy
  189.  
  190. This is the entire conversation except for when the decision had already been made and when my alternate accounts are revealed.
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