Part 1: The Blog Post

Original post: I’m really bummed you guys, I had to unfollow the blog manslator because they believe that het aros and aces are straight. :( why does discourse have to ruin everything?

First reblog addition: they blocked me for being “homophobic” because I don’t feel safe seeing aphobic discourse on my dash, especially when it’s coded as ace positivity… I am officially on the Ninth Level of Discourse Hell
their actual reply was a long rambling message about how “LGB aces and aros” (there was a conspicuous absence of the T… hmm…) face oppression but “het aros and aces are straight, that’s what straight means” and then a bunch of stuff about how “sexual privilege” isn’t real which like??? I never said it was??

Second reblog addition: but why would I want to feel safe looking at my tumblr dash, I should have been grateful that they spent 2 hours writing me some long screed about internalized homophobia (which to be fair I might not have worded clearly in my ask, I definitely understand what internalized homophobia is and how aces/aros can express it) but like cherry-picking posts from the discourse and then claiming all aces/aros are homophobic and going on about “internalized homophobia” in this sense is just a dogwhistle.

Part 2A: The First Ask

hey please don't publish, but I wanna clarify, in your post about that horrible aceslator blog, when you said there's a lot of horrible homophobic aro/ace discourse, can you just clarify whether or not your blog supports/is safe for aro-ace people? because I can't figure out whether you're saying that some aro-aces are homophobic and if that's something you believe I'm not sure I feel comfortable following :( which would be a shame cause I love what you do, but I'm also SO tired of The Discourse

Part 2B: Mod M's Response

Hiya! Yes, I believe we’re safe for people who are asexual, aromantic, or both. (I myself could easily ID as grey-ace if I chose to.) Being ace/aro (which I’m using to refer to the entire collected spectrum of asexuality and/or aromanticism) is valid and real.

However, ace and/or aro people absolutely can be homophobic, the same as anybody else (which includes internalized homophobia from LGB ace/aro people). That’s why I linked a couple of posts, so people could see specifically the kind of stuff I was talking about. If you follow the links, I’m sure you’ll see they’re pretty awful.

P.S. Love your URL.

Part 3A: The Second Ask

so wait, I'm still confused. those posts you link seem to be arguing that aces promoting aro/ace visibility is synonymous with homophobia; while I completely agree that aces and aros can be homophobic, I don't really think that's what either of the posts you linked demonstrates. perpetuating the idea that it's not OK to talk about ace visibility/positivity because to do so represents "internalized homophobia" is an aphobic argument that's often lobbies at aces who come out or simply dare to exist, there's a huge nasty debate right now on tumblr between exclusionists who think that aces/aros are straight and are "infiltrating" the queer community, and while I think your intentions are good, it makes me really uncomfortable to see you defending aphobic ideas like "internalized homophobia." I'm really torn because I don't wanna unfollow, but I'm also pretty hurt tbh because aces/aros are the targets of some truly awful discourse these days

Part 3B: Mod M's Response

First off, let me just say that I can guarantee you that Manslator will never intentionally post any aphobic content here (i.e., that attacks ace/aro people for being ace/aro). If something slips by us, we’ll publicly address it just as we’ve addressed posts in the past that were inadvertently ableist, transphobic, fatphobic, etc.

Now let’s get down to the nitty-gritty of actually unpacking your response. I’ll start with a couple of simple things and then work up to the Bad Discourse.

"Internalized homophobia" simply means an LGB person is reflecting/reinforcing homophobic beliefs. Any LGB person can harbor internalized homophobia, whether or not they are ace/aro, just like any woman can demonstrate internalized misogyny, and person of color can demonstrate internalized racism, any disabled person can demonstrate internalized ableism, etc. It’s merely a way of distinguishing people who are participating in their own oppression versus people who are participating in a form of oppression they benefit from.

Being ace/aro as an LGB person is categorically not a form of internalized homophobia, and it would absolutely be aphobic to say so.

Het ace/aro people are straight. That's what “being straight” means. Being LGB isn't a Secret Clubhouse of Fun Times that ace/aro people who exclusively experience heteroromantic/heterosexual attraction are being excluded from. It just means that the group is defined by a specific marginalization that hetero people (whether or not they’re ace/aro) don’t experience. It’s like as though I, a goy who sometimes gets mistaken for ethnically Jewish, were to complain that I can’t take advantage of Israel’s Law of Return.

So. On to the example posts. Ace/aro visibility is good. Ace/aro positivity is good. Ace/aro acceptance is good. But that’s not what these posts are fundamentally about.

Link 1: The included response does a good job of breaking down why it’s homophobic. The OP is explicitly attacking things that are relevant to the overwhelming majority of LGB people, including ace/aro LGB people. It’s especially unconscionable for them to kick off the post by attacking sex ed when AIDS decimated the queer population not even 40 years ago (and not “lol decimated means 10% of the population”; entire communities were practically wiped out), and HIV continues to be a huge problem for much of the queer community, especially trans women (extra especially those who are women of color and/or sex workers), who remain the most vulnerable in all areas and deserve the most support. There are, for example, legit criticisms to be made of “sex positivity,” but they’re about the way the concept is frequently co-opted by abusers and rapists to manipulate people (both ace and allo) into sex they don’t want, not “because I’m ace you can’t tell any other queer people that they shouldn’t be ashamed of the sex they want to have, or you’re excluding me.”

Link 2: If you don’t see how “those filthy gays wouldn’t have died if they’d just listened to us and practiced abstinence” is homophobic, I honestly don’t know what the fuck else to tell you. And that doesn’t even touch on the historical revisionism; I’ve seen no evidence, ever, that even queer ace/aro people pushed for abstinence-only education as a “solution” to AIDS.

These examples are not “ace visibility” or “ace positivity.” They are violently homophobic: they literally reflect and promote attitudes that cause demonstrable and potentially fatal harm to queer people (including queer ace/aro people).

Ace/aro people face unique challenges, and they (we, I could easily say, since as mentioned I could ID as grey-ace) deserve to have their (our) validity recognized and respected. But “ace/aro vs. allo” is not an axis of oppression. There is no coherent “sexual privilege” that, say, an Black trans allo lesbian holds over a white cishet ace man. “Aphobia” is a useful term for describing the cluster of negative experiences that ace/aro people as a group share. Like “biphobia” for bisexual people (like me), however, it does not describe a coherent system of oppression, but rather the result of a cluster of other intersecting systems such as homophobia, ableism, and sexism.

This kind of discourse, by the way, is a huuuuuuuuge part of the reason that I don’t currently and possibly will never ID as ace myself. It’s similar to the reason that I don’t make a big deal out of the fact that I’m an atheist (though in that case it’s Islamophobia, misogyny, and racism in atheist discourse, versus the homophobia/transphobia in ace/aro discourse).

Hopefully all of this helps clarify things for you. I don’t believe that Manslator’s opposition to homophobia or transphobia from anyone is at all exclusive with being accepting of and welcoming to ace/aro people; if you do, I would encourage you to do some thinking on that.

It’s up to you whether or not you feel safe following Manslator going forward, but I certainly hope you do.

Part 4A: The Third Ask

You lost me at "het aros and aces are straight," and I'm sorry to say that I no longer feel safe following your blog and will have to unfollow. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my asks, but I don't think you should publicly advertise your blog as a safe space for aces and aros unless you're supporting all of them, full stop.

Part 4B: Mod M's Response

Thanks for wasting the intellectual and emotional labor of a technically ace queer woman who just literally spent almost two hours composing a reply to politely and patiently educate you. I could have and probably should have been editing (you know, doing the work that literally keeps me from getting evicted and starving to death), but instead I took my morning to write something that you didn’t even bother to read because it might challenge your deeply unfortunate beliefs.

So, in conclusion: Yikes. Good luck with that homophobia.

Part 5A: The Fourth Ask

look, I didn't ask you to write that long response. I'm sorry you blog makes me feel unsafe and that I had to unfollow. I don't have that kind of time and energy to explain to you why ALL aces face oppression. all I wanted was clarification on whether it was safe to follow; I knew it wasn't as soon as I read the words "het aros and aces are straight." I hope someday you can see that the ace discourse does not represent all aces/aros, and why it's harmful to make a post like you did implying so.

Part 5B: Mod M's Response

W O W O W

I truly, genuinely wish for you that the “unsafest” you ever feel is the prospect of a queer woman checking you on your blatant homophobia.

I’m blocking you from this blog now, since clearly you’re incapable of stopping your own self from continuing to waste my time and shove your homophobia in my queer face.