Bezel says, "If you don't want specialized players to be useless half the time and breezing things a quarter of the time"
Bezel says, "Either you need elemental physical attacks"
Ragnaros says, "BOLDY YOU HAVE SOUGHT THE SECRETS OF THE APP STAFFER LORD!"
Bezel says, "Or you need guns and swords to draw on the same stat"
Demonee-ho sorry ahems welcome
Bezel says, "I strongly recommend one of these because it's honestly just not fun being the guy who runs up into an encounter against a guy who resists everything you have"
You say, "indeed. Although I'm not sure how common 'resists both gun and sword' are"
You say, "Demonee-ho might know"
Bezel says, "It works in party games since the same player is controlling 4 characters and thus they always have 1 character who is doing something interesting"
Bezel says, "But not when you only have one character to play"
You say, "indeed."
You say, "soo, check out +stats"
You say, "oer efirst"
You say, "+Form 1"
You say, "THEN +stats"
Bezel says, "If you split sword and gun without any elemental attributes to them, it becomes far more attractive to simply sink points into MAG for a far wider selection of possible attack types."
You say, "you have a very good point. X_X"
Bezel says, "Because nobody in their right mind would spend points levelling two seperate stats that are both resisted by the same stat"
Bezel says, "So it's up to you on that front. Physical attacks with secondary element, or sword and gun both being useable to physical guys"
You say, "this is largely why Strength and Dexterity were merged into just 'physical' here"
You say, "I personally think that elemental sword and gun moves that aren't magic make some better amount of sense. like a flamethrower weapon or tazer stick thing..."
You say, "I AM FRANKLY SURPRISED THESE THINGS DO NOT EXIST given the rest of the theme"
You say, "but that's not entirely my call. lemme see if I can get the big cheese on"
Bezel says, "That's the one I lean towards, seeing as even if a monster has really high END and you're a PHYS person, you can at least take advantage of their elemental weakness to deal decent damage"
You say, "and Raiho's not on. :|"
Bezel says, "As for a hit/damage formula, that's entirely stylistic. Do you intend battles to be fairly regular slugfests where both sides facetank each blow until one falls down? Do you want them to be pulp fiction type fights where combatants mostly suffer grazing blows and a handful of big hits? Do you want a realistic style where the majority of blows are mostly or entirely evaded and a couple of decisive hits decides the victor?"
Bezel says, "You want to pin down that cinematic flavour first"
Demonee-ho can talk to Raiho yo
You say, "can you get them on, Demee?"
Demonee-ho says, "he's not on :("
You say, "that's what I mean. D:"
You say, "anyways hrm"
Demonee-ho can let him know about the idea fro attacks like that
You say, "Okay so well let's just talk without him for now."
You say, "You're the theme expert, Demonee. So we'll see where this gets. I'm just the coder"
You say, "Bezel: the first of those three."
You say, "it should be kind of like Pokemon, except without the ridiculous damage multiplying factors and people able to take some good hits"
Bezel says, "Then the second part: how do you want hits and misses to function? Static hit, miss and critical, or sliding tiers of accuracy like MCM?"
You say, "IDEALLY, the last"
You say, "since flat out misses tend to aggravate people"
Bezel says, "And I assume magic can miss, right?"
You say, "yes"
You say, "the only things that do stuff like 'auto hit' are healing."
You say, "here is what we've been working with so far"
You say, "type +atk Sword"
Bezel says, "Then what's important to understand is that evasion and accuracy are going to act as flat attack/defense stats for all elements. For that reason, a single point of PER or whatever we're calling it cannot increase average damage as much as a single point in MAG or PHYS or whatever"
You say, "then say, +atk 14"
Bezel says, "I assume these have different mana costs or something?"
You say, "they will yes. the idea for this is"
You say, "you start each battle with like, 25% of your total SP (Special/Spirit points, whatever). And you use 'weak' attacks to charge it up and then use that to pay for bigger ones"
You say, "I haven't coded that in yet because I'm still trying to figure out damage and hits first, y'know?"
Bezel says, "That doesn't sound condusive to a battle you want to be over in 5 turns"
Demonee-ho says, "Its worked for m3"
Demonee-ho says, "It uses a system much in the same idea for it to be about 5 to 7 turns you get resouces bonus for using low level attacks and keeps you from power bombing their highest levels off the bat"
Bezel says, "Is there a passive gain per turn, or does it ONLY go up if you use normal attacks?"
You say, "whichever works better honestly. It's not been established exactly. I've entertained the idea of a mixture"
You say, "we are still kind of in the 'design' phase here"
You say, "I now have Code that can be easily Experimented With"
Bezel says, "That's honestly a seperate balancing concern, wherein you need to make sure that weak attacking for 4 turns and blowing your load on your highest level power is equally as valid as weak attacking once, immediately using up all the SP, then repeating until battle end"
Bezel says, "Otherwise people will find the optimal pattern and use nothing BUT it"
Bezel says, "That's easy enough to do just by adding up the power of each normal attack and the special attack used at most SP efficiency and then dividing by number of turns though"
You say, "you keep thinking of stuff from angles I would not. this is exactly why I wanted help. :D"
Bezel says, "You're welcome I guess :p"
Bezel says, "But back on to the main subject"
Völund hugs. Would appreciate any help you can offer :o
You say, "I say I wanted help but honestly I don't even know where to start with the bloody math aside from the 'feel' I want. D:"
You say, "I tried to adapt Pokemon to this"
You say, "It's kind of not working."
GAME: Raiho has connected.
Raiho has arrived.
Teleported.
You say, "RAIHO"
Völund grabs
You say, "PERFECT TIMING"
Raiho says, "Howdy!"
You say, "a math wizard walks amongst us!"
Bezel says, "If you want, say, 300 HP to be the average, and a battle to last 6 turns, you're looking for 50 damage a turn on average. So like, 5 normal attacks that deal 25 damage each, and then a big attack that deals 175 damage, or small attack big attack going in 25, 75, repeat"
Raiho says, "We definitely need a math magician."
Bezel says, "If that's an acceptable average than I'll work off that"
You say, "Bezel: yeah that sounds like about what I had in mind"
You say, "there may be people with more HP and better attack power but they should be fairly rare"
You say, "and that's 'assuming all average.' itw ill not be becasue we've got magic vs physical, elements, etc"
You say, "but well, this is why it's dumb to be a snowman against a fire mage"
You say, "what more can I say?"
You say, "Bezel, could you reiterate the sword/gun+elements issue for Raiho here? He's the big boss"
You say, "he can offer input I can't on how to proceed"
You say, "or I can just pastebin"
Völund does that
Bezel says, "An important thing is that there needs to be a floor damage/accuracy before stats are factored in, since there are 4 types of ways damage can be multiplied, but two are negative. If 5 in a stat deals 5 damage and 10 in a stat deals 10 damage, and you fight 4 enemies, one weak, one normal, one resistant, and one null to your attacking element, the guy with 10 in his stat will deal 20, 10, 5 and 0 in his battles for an average of 8.75 damage rating per battle, whereas the guy with 5 will deal 10, 5, 5 and 5 for a total of 6.25 damage rating. His versatility generally isn't being rewarded."