Ubers Workshop 3/20

[15:18:54] #haxiom: alright lets go
[15:19:13] #haxiom: go ahead and post the first team
[15:19:37] %Lord Outrage: http://pastebin.com/raw/SX1ztPJt
[15:19:43] %Lord Outrage: Mr. Perry
Mr. Perry was promoted to Room Voice by haxiom.
[15:20:00] #haxiom: hang on brb
[15:20:02] +Mr. Perry: Hello my frens
[15:20:06] %Lord Outrage: hi bby
[15:20:10] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: :o
[15:20:10] %Lord Outrage: also cranham
[15:20:12] %Lord Outrage: and sado
[15:20:14] %Lord Outrage: you ready right
[15:20:18] +Cranham: Ye guess
[15:20:21] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: sure
[15:21:23] %Lord Outrage: ok idk if haxiom is back
[15:21:32] %Lord Outrage: but lesgo he will join
[15:21:43] %Lord Outrage: anyway first of all this team is solid
[15:21:58] %Lord Outrage: you covered excadrill's weakness to darkrai with both ekiller and scarf xerneas
[15:22:07] %Lord Outrage: however salamence looks like a serious issue
[15:22:28] %Lord Outrage: if it has refresh ofc
[15:22:34] #haxiom: yeah im back
[15:22:46] #haxiom: salamence is threatening since it can set up relatively easy on exca
[15:22:48] %Lord Outrage: it can just start by killing 2 pokemon
[15:23:05] +Mr. Perry: Also Excadrill isn't EVed lol
[15:23:08] +Mr. Perry: Rip
[15:23:17] %Lord Outrage: yeah no problem
[15:23:21] %Lord Outrage: pretty classic EVs
[15:23:25] %Lord Outrage: but it should be jolly
[15:23:34] %Lord Outrage: for a chance to outspeed the usual 290 waterceuses
[15:23:34] #haxiom: yeah just max max jolly i would say
[15:23:42] %Lord Outrage: yeah max max jolly
[15:23:52] #haxiom: i think that iron head isn't really necessary
[15:24:13] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:24:19] %Lord Outrage: should replace it with rapid spin
[15:24:51] %Lord Outrage: haxiom thoughts on rock tomb on exca
[15:24:57] #haxiom: yeah i was debating
[15:24:59] %Lord Outrage: i mean
[15:25:03] #haxiom: it helps vs mence for this team
[15:25:04] %Lord Outrage: its not like he's weak to stall
[15:25:07] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:25:13] %Lord Outrage: mence seems like a bigger issue
[15:25:17] %Lord Outrage: specially that versus stall
[15:25:23] %Lord Outrage: gengar can remove ttar and die
[15:25:29] %Lord Outrage: then yveltal can really do a serious job
[15:25:32] %Lord Outrage: with knock off
[15:26:00] %Lord Outrage: another problem is ho oh
[15:26:05] %Lord Outrage: since scarf xern and exca
[15:26:07] %Lord Outrage: and no switch ins
[15:26:16] %Lord Outrage: and your groudon
[15:26:18] %Lord Outrage: has fire punch
[15:26:20] %Lord Outrage: and no sotne edge
[15:26:28] %Lord Outrage: also no stone edge
[15:26:31] %Lord Outrage: on your ekiller
[15:26:42] %Lord Outrage: mr. perry you can talk btw
[15:26:45] %Lord Outrage: oo
[15:26:54] +Mr. Perry: Ik
[15:26:58] %Lord Outrage: ok
[15:27:04] +Mr. Perry: I was thinkinh
[15:27:10] +Mr. Perry: About defensive yve
[15:27:16] +Mr. Perry: But it'd be awkward
[15:27:18] %Lord Outrage: so we have big problems being ho oh and salamence
[15:27:22] +Mr. Perry: In a more offensive build
[15:27:31] #haxiom: yeah no i wouldn't use defensive yveltal on this
[15:27:40] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:27:43] %Lord Outrage: me neither
[15:28:15] +Cranham: I do like this team
[15:28:25] %Lord Outrage: ok i think
[15:28:27] +Cranham: Personally i would change a few sets around
[15:28:35] +Mr. Perry: I added Fire Punch bc I'd be able to kill defensive yve at +2 with it after SR
[15:28:47] +Mr. Perry: O
[15:28:51] +Mr. Perry: Erase this "with it"
[15:29:13] +Mr. Perry: But I can add Edge in ekiller
[15:29:36] +Cranham: P sure you could get away with like running Shadow ball focus blast m-gengar Stone edge > Fire punch on Don and a geomancy xerneas
[15:30:31] %Lord Outrage: well he should keep scarf xern imo
[15:30:36] %Lord Outrage: it gives him the edge over offense
[15:30:45] +Cranham: i just dont like the free turns it gives
[15:30:46] +Cranham: to ho-oh
[15:31:22] %Lord Outrage: i think
[15:31:26] +Cranham: and you dont really want sleep talk rolling anything else
[15:31:28] +Cranham: vs darkrai
[15:31:32] %Lord Outrage: this team is solid with the current member
[15:31:38] %Lord Outrage: s
[15:31:42] %Lord Outrage: just needs some sets changes
[15:31:50] +Mr. Perry: I personally do not like to plsy against kyogre
[15:32:02] %Lord Outrage: first of all mr. perry
[15:32:03] %Lord Outrage: you have to put rock tomb on excadrill
[15:32:10] +Mr. Perry: Yh I added it
[15:32:19] %Lord Outrage: then you have to add rapid spin
[15:32:26] %Lord Outrage: so you totally block klefki on balance
[15:32:55] %Lord Outrage: after that you have to remove all the other moves of xerneas and just keep moonblast
[15:33:19] %Lord Outrage: since other moves are really useless most of the time
[15:33:39] %Lord Outrage: now groudon should have stone edge
[15:33:47] %Lord Outrage: and yveltal should be max speed rash
[15:33:55] %Lord Outrage: in order to outspeed waterceus on stall
[15:34:03] %Lord Outrage: once you take down tyranitar
[15:34:05] %Lord Outrage: with gengar
[15:34:34] %Lord Outrage: i think both ho oh and mence wont be huge problem now
[15:34:46] +Mr. Perry: Ok then
[15:34:46] %Lord Outrage: specially that ho oh wont really switch in on anything not called xerneas
[15:34:58] %Lord Outrage: and because you also have gengar to trap it
[15:35:16] %Lord Outrage: so rn your team is good versus offense stall and balance
[15:35:29] %Lord Outrage: but requires smart playing versus balance
[15:35:34] %Lord Outrage: specially with gengar
[15:35:50] #haxiom: he meant good vs offense and stall
[15:36:15] #haxiom: nvm cant read
[15:36:20] +Mr. Perry: Gengar keeps the current set?
[15:36:22] %Lord Outrage: haxiom cranham and sado
[15:36:26] %Lord Outrage: anything else?
[15:36:27] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:36:31] %Lord Outrage: perish trap
[15:36:38] %Lord Outrage: can take down arceus forms easier
[15:36:47] %Lord Outrage: which is something your team enjoys the most
[15:36:48] +Cranham: Yeah I feel Lord Outrage's changes to be more optimal now
[15:36:54] +Cranham: after thinking about it
[15:37:01] +Cranham: just the excadrill lacks evs in the import
[15:37:03] #haxiom: mhm i think if you play smart with xern against ho-oh teams
[15:37:08] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: same. did we agree on stone edge over eq or arc or nah
[15:37:10] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:37:13] +Cranham: so dont forget to change that
[15:37:17] %Lord Outrage: he's going for jolly max
[15:37:33] %Lord Outrage: also about arceus i think keeping shadow claw is good
[15:37:49] +Cranham: yeah he needs claw
[15:37:57] +Cranham: he doesnt have an offensive gengar set
[15:38:32] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:38:38] %Lord Outrage: alrite anything else mr. perry?
[15:38:44] %Lord Outrage: your team was really solid btw
[15:38:44] +Mr. Perry: I don't think so
[15:38:49] +Mr. Perry: Thank you all :)
[15:38:50] %Lord Outrage: just needed minor optimizations
[15:38:55] %Lord Outrage: to improve its machup versus archetypes
[15:38:57] +Mr. Perry: And thank u for the little tips
[15:39:00] %Lord Outrage: welcome
[15:39:13] %Lord Outrage: ;]
[15:39:21] #haxiom: alright then
[15:39:24] #haxiom: moving on
Please specify a group such as /roomvoice or /roomdeauth
[15:39:34] %Lord Outrage: http://pastebin.com/GvE2NTGT
(Mr. Perry was demoted to Room regular user by haxiom.)
[15:39:40] %Lord Outrage: baller620
baller620 was promoted to Room Voice by haxiom.
[15:40:37] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: well, that salamence set doesn't set doesn't seem needed at all with giratina on the team
[15:40:39] #haxiom: there's definitely some suboptimal sets that we'll want to fix
[15:40:40] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: seem*
[15:40:45] +Cranham: Yeah for sure
[15:40:54] +Cranham: theres also no answers to a S rank threat
[15:40:57] +Cranham: Darkrai
[15:41:42] +Cranham: I absolutely wouldnt run a giratina-o without defog
[15:41:58] #haxiom: he has two defog users it looks like
[15:42:02] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: yup
[15:42:08] +Cranham: oh it has defog too
[15:42:11] +Cranham: I overlooked that
[15:42:28] %Lord Outrage: baller620
[15:42:32] %Lord Outrage: are you here
[15:42:32] %Lord Outrage: o-o
[15:42:46] %Lord Outrage: if he's not here we aint rating
[15:42:47] #haxiom: oh he was at the beginning but left
[15:42:49] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: a lot of the sets are indeed very questionable for his team
[15:42:51] #haxiom: it looks like
[15:42:53] +baller620: im here im in a tuber touny at the same time
[15:42:56] #haxiom: nvmd
[15:43:00] +baller620: uber**
[15:43:25] %Lord Outrage: alrite you gotta focus here
[15:43:31] +baller620: i am
[15:44:10] %Lord Outrage: ok so first of all
[15:44:17] %Lord Outrage: like others pointed out
[15:44:20] %Lord Outrage: darkrai is a serious issue
[15:44:28] %Lord Outrage: and sets optimizations are needed
[15:44:31] #haxiom: also no stealth rock
[15:44:50] +Cranham: Alot of sets are redundant aswell
[15:44:55] +Cranham: Wasted moveslots
[15:44:58] %Lord Outrage: yeah alrite
[15:45:04] %Lord Outrage: i think this team
[15:45:08] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: on pdon especially
[15:45:09] %Lord Outrage: needs more speed
[15:45:19] %Lord Outrage: it should be faster
[15:45:50] +baller620: i see what you are saying now
[15:45:51] %Lord Outrage: thoughts on replacing primal kyogre with mewtw
[15:46:00] %Lord Outrage: i mean
[15:46:10] +Cranham: Yeah i would replace kyogre and tina and turn it into HO
[15:46:11] +Cranham: hmm
[15:46:35] +Cranham: Like Dialga > Tina M2 > Kyogre
[15:46:44] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i think kyogre to mew twos good and maybe tina to like dialga or deo a
[15:46:59] %Lord Outrage: good idea
[15:47:01] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:47:08] %Lord Outrage: mmmm
[15:47:21] +Cranham: that allows it to branch out
[15:47:27] +Cranham: and run Double dance/Paradancer don
[15:47:30] %Lord Outrage: if we put in dialga instead of tina we get rocks and a check to both ekiller and mence
[15:47:36] +Cranham: and offensive DD mence
[15:47:39] +Cranham: yeah shuca dialga
[15:47:42] %Lord Outrage: ok
[15:47:47] %Lord Outrage: lets say we went for shuca dialga
[15:47:51] %Lord Outrage: and we keep ekiller
[15:49:09] +baller620: ok
[15:49:35] +toon linked: ah. ubers workshop eh?
[15:49:39] #haxiom: idk if mewtwo completely fixes the darkrai problem since it still sleeps something
[15:49:48] %Lord Outrage: yh
[15:49:59] +toon linked: nice
[15:50:05] %Lord Outrage: i mean
[15:50:05] %Lord Outrage: i dont think either that a sleep absorber is affordable
[15:50:43] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i mean, theres always scarf xern, but geo might be more wanted as a win con on his team
[15:50:51] %Lord Outrage: yh
[15:50:54] %Lord Outrage: geo is needed here
[15:50:55] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: we do also have e killer to revenge rai
[15:51:59] #haxiom: what about rest talk geomancy?
[15:52:15] %Lord Outrage: that doesn't really check darkrai
[15:52:22] +Cranham: Mewtwo def pressures darkrai
[15:52:22] %Lord Outrage: but it can absorb sleep
[15:52:24] +Cranham: for sure
[15:52:25] %Lord Outrage: so its not bad
[15:52:34] #haxiom: like absorb sleep with that and pressure with mewtwo + ekiller
[15:52:44] %Lord Outrage: ok lets suppose
[15:52:48] +Cranham: Mewtwo really fits the future build
[15:53:27] %Lord Outrage: we went for stalk xerneas mewtwo ekiller mence groudon
[15:53:47] %Lord Outrage: and dialga
[15:53:56] +baller620: ok
[15:54:04] %Lord Outrage: this looks solid enough to take on everything
[15:54:08] %Lord Outrage: doesn't it
[15:54:20] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i think it looks good with that build
[15:54:26] %Lord Outrage: yh
[15:54:28] %Lord Outrage: ok
[15:54:31] +Cranham: just run thunder on dialga
[15:54:33] %Lord Outrage: baller620
[15:54:36] +baller620: ok thanks for the help
[15:54:36] +Cranham: to pressure ho-oh and waterceus
[15:54:41] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: make sure to make salamence ddance and groudon rp
[15:54:49] %Lord Outrage: focus with me
[15:54:49] %Lord Outrage: lol
[15:54:50] %Lord Outrage: no i need to give you the optimal sets
[15:54:59] +baller620: k
[15:55:01] %Lord Outrage: so first keep ekiller as it is
[15:55:15] %Lord Outrage: second replace salamence spread with
[15:55:18] %Lord Outrage: 176 in speed
[15:55:21] %Lord Outrage: max attack adamant
[15:55:25] %Lord Outrage: and remaining in hp
[15:55:32] %Lord Outrage: running refresh on it is nice
[15:55:56] %Lord Outrage: with dd edge/return and roost
[15:56:09] +baller620: ok
[15:56:16] %Lord Outrage: ok
[15:56:22] +Cranham: I dont like edge refresh
[15:56:27] %Lord Outrage: now use a shuca berry dialga
[15:56:31] %Lord Outrage: he can use return
[15:56:34] %Lord Outrage: its a preference really
[15:56:40] +Cranham: yh true
[15:56:45] %Lord Outrage: what spread for dialga
[15:57:01] %Lord Outrage: i usually run some speed
[15:57:02] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: 12 speed
XY Dialga analysis, brought to you by Smogon University
[15:57:04] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: ?
[15:57:05] +Cranham: Honestly i just run enough to creep
[15:57:09] #haxiom: i mean its just arbitrary speed creep
[15:57:13] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[15:57:13] +Cranham: 12 speed 90s like tina-o
[15:57:17] +Cranham: So around 20
[15:57:19] %Lord Outrage: ok
[15:57:22] %Lord Outrage: baller620
[15:57:26] %Lord Outrage: use 248 hp
[15:57:28] %Lord Outrage: modest
[15:57:30] +baller620: ok
[15:57:32] %Lord Outrage: 248 spe attack
[15:57:34] %Lord Outrage: 12 speed
[15:57:41] %Lord Outrage: put draco stealth rock
[15:57:42] %Lord Outrage: thunder
[15:57:45] %Lord Outrage: and twave
[15:57:52] +Cranham: ?
[15:58:07] +baller620: ok
[15:58:13] %Lord Outrage: ok now
[15:58:16] %Lord Outrage: for the xerneas
[15:58:18] +Cranham: how does he force diancie out with that set
[15:58:22] +Cranham: curious question
[15:58:37] %Lord Outrage: i dont think diancie is staying in on that
[15:58:45] +Cranham: i always thought the point of dialga was so it could anti lead magic bouncers
[15:58:49] %Lord Outrage: he can run flash cannon instead of twave but then he becomes set up bait
[15:59:06] +Cranham: whats t-wave doing to ekiller
[15:59:15] %Lord Outrage: its doing to xerneas
[15:59:19] +Cranham: hmm
[15:59:27] %Lord Outrage: actually twave is twave
[15:59:29] %Lord Outrage: and its useful
[15:59:31] %Lord Outrage: anyway
[15:59:32] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: id say its personal preference between t wave and flash cnanon
[15:59:34] +Cranham: Lolazo true
[15:59:39] %Lord Outrage: what else
[15:59:49] %Lord Outrage: run a classic mewtwo
[15:59:52] %Lord Outrage: you get from here
[15:59:56] %Lord Outrage: with taunt 3 moves
[16:00:02] %Lord Outrage: !analysis mewtwo
XY Mewtwo analysis, brought to you by Smogon University
[16:00:09] %Lord Outrage: from the left link
[16:00:12] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: taunt psystrike ice beam focus blast?
[16:00:15] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: something like that?
[16:00:20] %Lord Outrage: yeah
[16:00:25] %Lord Outrage: i think he needs fireblast tho
[16:00:52] +Cranham: well
[16:01:02] +Cranham: fire blast over ice beam?
[16:01:26] %Lord Outrage: no
[16:01:29] %Lord Outrage: mm
[16:01:30] %Lord Outrage: ok ok
[16:01:35] +Cranham: love 4mss
[16:01:43] +Cranham: you kinda need taunt
[16:01:45] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: ikr
[16:01:52] %Lord Outrage: lets keep focus
[16:01:53] %Lord Outrage: to make it better versus ho
[16:01:54] %Lord Outrage: since it one shots darkrai and does tons to ekiller and mence
[16:01:55] +Cranham: Psytrike + focus is quinnessetial
[16:02:03] +Cranham: on any mewtwo
[16:02:20] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:02:20] %Lord Outrage: so
[16:02:24] %Lord Outrage: for the groudon
[16:02:28] %Lord Outrage: double dance seems nice
[16:02:33] %Lord Outrage: for this team
[16:02:37] %Lord Outrage: helps versus offense too
[16:02:39] %Lord Outrage: by giving pace
[16:02:50] %Lord Outrage: !analysis primal groudon
XY Groudon analysis, brought to you by Smogon University
[16:02:51] +Cranham: Don is just don tho
[16:02:53] +Cranham: ngl
[16:03:01] %Lord Outrage: pick the double dance set
[16:03:03] %Lord Outrage: from here
[16:03:09] %Lord Outrage: anyway we're done
[16:03:21] %Lord Outrage: baller620
[16:03:24] %Lord Outrage: anything else?
[16:03:30] +baller620: ok thanks for the help
[16:03:37] %Lord Outrage: welcome
[16:03:42] #haxiom: alright then
[16:03:44] %Lord Outrage: ok next
[16:03:47] %Lord Outrage: is trap god here
(baller620 was demoted to Room regular user by haxiom.)
[16:03:59] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: The Trap God?
[16:04:09] %Lord Outrage: http://hastebin.com/apahizerak.md
[16:04:13] %Lord Outrage: ok he's here
[16:04:16] %Lord Outrage: haxiom plz voice him
The Trap God was promoted to Room Voice by haxiom.
[16:04:37] +Cranham: is this The Trap God's team
[16:04:41] +The Trap God: whats good
[16:05:00] %Lord Outrage: hi
[16:05:04] %Lord Outrage: nice
[16:05:09] %Lord Outrage: a darkceus
[16:05:09] %Lord Outrage: lets have some fun
[16:05:12] +The Trap God: wanted to build around darkceus lol
[16:05:15] +Cranham: damn a darkceus m-gengar team
[16:05:21] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: darkceus :o
[16:05:21] +Cranham: nice nice
[16:05:25] +The Trap God: was working on it this morning and figured id do this when i saw you were doin it
[16:05:35] +The Trap God: see what your guys thoughts were
[16:05:45] +Cranham: the issue I have with these teams is they tend to be weak to diancie
[16:05:58] +The Trap God: y i noticed that too
[16:06:10] +Cranham: this one does not like geomancy xerneas
XY Diancie analysis, brought to you by Smogon University
[16:06:22] +Cranham: oh nvm theres a ho-oh
[16:06:24] +Cranham: im blind
[16:06:28] +The Trap God: lol
[16:06:36] %Lord Outrage: ok so this team
[16:06:37] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: some set optimization might be nice as well
[16:06:39] +Cranham: i swear i saw 6 mons alreadly
[16:06:41] %Lord Outrage: has issues with offense
[16:06:44] +The Trap God: ight
[16:07:02] %Lord Outrage: also
[16:07:10] %Lord Outrage: xerneas and diancie
[16:07:14] %Lord Outrage: are threatening
[16:07:23] %Lord Outrage: well xerneas on offense is
[16:07:24] +Cranham: yeah classic HO really dances on this team hmm
[16:07:32] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:07:34] %Lord Outrage: i think
[16:07:37] +The Trap God: i originally had keys and sr don
[16:07:38] %Lord Outrage: you latios
[16:07:40] %Lord Outrage: needs memento
[16:07:43] +The Trap God: ight
[16:07:46] %Lord Outrage: just to avoid problems with xerneas
[16:07:55] %Lord Outrage: but lets try to fix the diancie weakness first
[16:08:55] %Lord Outrage: i think
[16:09:07] %Lord Outrage: all diancie teams
[16:09:07] +Cranham: what you feel about ogre Lord Outrage
[16:09:07] %Lord Outrage: tend to have no switch ins
[16:09:08] %Lord Outrage: to mewtwo/deo-A
[16:09:14] +Cranham: or m2
[16:10:01] #haxiom: its hard to fit those though
[16:10:04] %Lord Outrage: yh
[16:10:11] %Lord Outrage: or at least shaky ones
[16:10:11] %Lord Outrage: so we can abuse this
[16:10:12] %Lord Outrage: ogre is a good idea
[16:10:12] %Lord Outrage: too
[16:10:13] %Lord Outrage: soecially ogre
[16:10:25] %Lord Outrage: oops lag
[16:10:27] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:10:37] %Lord Outrage: lets think for a bit
[16:10:58] +Cranham: this is such a fun core and i havent seen a team with it
[16:11:58] #haxiom: what about ferrothorn to help vs diancie and ekiller
[16:12:22] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: ferro>dialga?
[16:12:41] +Cranham: yeah rocks ferro
[16:12:45] +The Trap God: hmm
[16:12:46] +Cranham: over dialga could work
[16:12:53] +Cranham: ill throw this into teambuilder
[16:13:02] +The Trap God: i feel like that makes me alot weaker to ho oh giving it a free switch in
[16:13:04] +Cranham: but it just worsens his matchup vs offense
[16:13:09] +Cranham: and ho-oh balance
[16:13:40] #haxiom: yeah it would require other changes
[16:13:46] +The Trap God: yea
[16:13:51] +Cranham: yeah im tempted
[16:14:00] +Cranham: to replace gengar w/ bulky mence
[16:14:19] +The Trap God: that kind of defeats the purpose of the team
[16:14:25] +Cranham: yes it does
[16:14:44] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: can't exactly have a darkceus gengar core without gengar :p
[16:14:48] +The Trap God: those are the two mons i dont wanna change darkceus mgar
[16:15:07] +Cranham: okay Im gonna start with
[16:15:13] +Cranham: Mgar + darkceus + ferro
[16:16:01] %Lord Outrage: thoughts on gengar/darkceus/mewtwo/dialga/rayquaza/groudon
[16:16:13] +The Trap God: charti ray?
[16:16:28] +The Trap God: lo gets worked by rp donner
[16:16:30] +Cranham: yeah, the offense route could work
[16:16:40] +Cranham: charti ray or lum ray
[16:16:45] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: hmm'
[16:17:36] +The Trap God: i like the offense route
[16:17:44] +The Trap God: i think that might be the way to go
[16:17:50] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: seems more suited for the team tbh
[16:17:53] +The Trap God: cuz you cant really have a balance without support arc
[16:17:54] +Cranham: darkceus + mgar
[16:18:05] +Cranham: already has a good matchup vs stall
[16:18:10] +The Trap God: yea
[16:18:13] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:18:17] %Lord Outrage: i think this is the best
[16:18:20] %Lord Outrage: it can reach
[16:18:21] %Lord Outrage: like
[16:18:23] +Cranham: Lord Outrage the god
[16:18:30] %Lord Outrage: darkceus+mgengar
[16:18:35] %Lord Outrage: is not that good initially
[16:18:41] %Lord Outrage: and mewtwo will give you the edge
[16:18:44] %Lord Outrage: versus diancie balance
[16:18:46] %Lord Outrage: since most
[16:18:50] %Lord Outrage: don't even have switch ins
[16:18:53] %Lord Outrage: to the taunt LO variant
[16:19:02] %Lord Outrage: their best switch is like waterceus
[16:19:09] +Cranham: Lol
[16:19:15] %Lord Outrage: or groudon
[16:19:16] +The Trap God: true lol
[16:19:21] %Lord Outrage: if groudon is down
[16:19:26] %Lord Outrage: its even either for you then
[16:19:30] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: and groudon takes a lot from ep n_n
[16:19:39] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:19:45] %Lord Outrage: do i need to give you any sets
[16:19:48] %Lord Outrage: the trap god
[16:19:52] %Lord Outrage: you're a good player
[16:20:24] +The Trap God: what do you think? dd ray or 4 attacks
[16:20:30] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: imo 4 attacks
[16:20:38] +Cranham: if you're going w/ 4 attacks, banded
[16:20:43] +Cranham: but charti should be dd
[16:20:49] +The Trap God: yea
[16:20:56] +Cranham: Personally i think lum or charti
[16:21:12] +The Trap God: im leaning towards dd charti
[16:21:16] #haxiom: you probably need charti for pdon
[16:21:16] +Cranham: so you can actually switch into don when needed
[16:21:23] +The Trap God: yea
[16:21:25] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: mm yeah thats probably better
[16:21:48] +Cranham: DD ray is still good
[16:21:55] %Lord Outrage: i would say
[16:21:56] %Lord Outrage: dd charti
[16:21:57] %Lord Outrage: for sure
[16:21:59] +Cranham: yeah
[16:22:02] +The Trap God: and then focus m2?
[16:22:10] +Cranham: focus ice beam taunt strike
[16:22:11] +Cranham: m2
[16:22:18] %Lord Outrage: yes
[16:22:23] %Lord Outrage: that gives you the edge
[16:22:32] %Lord Outrage: versus sand teams too
[16:22:33] %Lord Outrage: fblast is needed here
[16:22:40] %Lord Outrage: mewtwo is the mvp
[16:22:42] %Lord Outrage: on your team
[16:22:45] %Lord Outrage: like
[16:22:48] %Lord Outrage: it makes it so much better
[16:22:52] +The Trap God: yea i agree
[16:22:52] +Cranham: The cliche diancie balance has like no switch ins to that coverage
[16:22:53] +Cranham: lol
[16:23:00] +The Trap God: yea lmao
[16:23:05] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: "cliche diancie" kek
[16:23:08] %Lord Outrage: OK anything else
[16:23:14] +The Trap God: think im set
[16:23:18] +The Trap God: thanks for the help guys
[16:23:32] #haxiom: alright then, next team
[16:23:56] +Cranham: oh the gengar set is a bit meh
[16:24:02] +Cranham: before we go to the next team
[16:24:15] %Lord Outrage: is facepalm's plot here?
[16:24:23] +The Trap God: for mgar
[16:24:30] #haxiom: what about it cranham?
[16:24:33] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i don't really see a problem with it tbh. maybe shadow ball would work but seems fine
[16:24:38] +Cranham: its sludge wave focus blast
[16:24:50] +The Trap God: i was figuring didnt need ghost coverage with darkceus
[16:24:54] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: thats what most gengar run
[16:25:03] %Lord Outrage: keep it as is imo
[16:25:11] %Lord Outrage: sludge wave can take down diancie
[16:25:13] %Lord Outrage: after rocks
[16:25:14] +Cranham: hmm okay
[16:25:19] +The Trap God: actually
[16:25:22] #haxiom: sludge wave has good synergy with darkceus
[16:25:22] +The Trap God: about the mgar set
[16:25:23] +Cranham: preferece i guess
[16:25:32] %Lord Outrage: yeah haxiom is right
[16:25:36] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: mgar is literally all prefernece
[16:25:48] +The Trap God: what do you guys think of taunt for blissey
[16:25:50] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: one of the worst 4mss in the game lol
[16:26:11] %Lord Outrage: ok rip ogasian
[16:26:16] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i don't think bliss is that big of an issue
[16:26:22] +The Trap God: well like
[16:26:29] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: protect seems better to deal with arc more reliably
[16:26:43] %Lord Outrage: is virachi here
[16:26:43] %Lord Outrage: ttg your gengar is fine
[16:26:44] %Lord Outrage: is virachi here
[16:26:45] +The Trap God: snatch blissey can be annoying if you're trying to win with darkceus
[16:26:47] +The Trap God: and ight
[16:26:50] +The Trap God: pce guys
[16:27:02] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: is anyone here ._.
(The Trap God was demoted to Room regular user by haxiom.)
[16:27:16] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: oh Virachi is here
[16:27:31] %Lord Outrage: ok virachi
Virachi was promoted to Room Voice by haxiom.
[16:27:36] %Lord Outrage: also the trap god
[16:27:41] %Lord Outrage: its not like you need a darkceus sweep
[16:27:44] %Lord Outrage: to win versus stall
[16:27:50] %Lord Outrage: you have a gengar that can kill ttar
[16:27:53] %Lord Outrage: and an sd groudon
[16:27:57] %Lord Outrage: and a taunt mewtwo
[16:28:00] %Lord Outrage: so
[16:28:10] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: yeah stall doesn't seem like an issue at all
[16:28:11] %Lord Outrage: taunt is not needed
[16:28:12] %Lord Outrage: at all
[16:28:16] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:28:18] %Lord Outrage: NEXT
[16:28:24] %Lord Outrage: haxiom please voice my nigga virachi
[16:28:28] +Virachi: he did
[16:28:30] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: ^
[16:28:31] +Virachi: lmaooo
[16:28:32] +Cranham: I just prefer 3 atks m-gar but yh its preference
[16:28:36] %Lord Outrage: o sorry
[16:28:48] +Cranham: now i think about it there was a darkceus
[16:28:50] %Lord Outrage: http://pastebin.com/TVDzjnnt
[16:29:25] +Virachi: i was thinking of making the speed on mence
[16:29:27] +Virachi: 290
[16:29:36] +Virachi: to outspeed mence
[16:30:47] %Lord Outrage: i think
[16:30:48] %Lord Outrage: the biggest weakness is stall
[16:31:05] +Cranham: klefki set
[16:31:09] +Cranham: is a bit redundant
[16:31:28] +Virachi: i use it for extra spD and Def
[16:31:43] +Virachi: and to set up
[16:31:45] +Virachi: easy
[16:31:56] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i mean its really only for arc
[16:32:34] %Lord Outrage: screen helps versus offense
[16:32:35] %Lord Outrage: how is it redundant ?
[16:32:35] %Lord Outrage: its classic screens
[16:32:48] %Lord Outrage: ok
[16:32:49] +Cranham: its only helping out arc
[16:32:59] +Cranham: and hes better off w/ spikes
[16:32:59] %Lord Outrage: the duo mence and ogre
[16:33:02] %Lord Outrage: is good for ho oh
[16:33:08] %Lord Outrage: and the duo mence+groundceus
[16:33:13] %Lord Outrage: is good for primal groudon
[16:33:18] %Lord Outrage: so that's pretty good
[16:33:39] %Lord Outrage: now
[16:33:59] %Lord Outrage: klefki checks yveltal dakrrai
[16:34:02] %Lord Outrage: and helps him versus offense
[16:34:07] %Lord Outrage: i see no reason to remove it at all
[16:34:27] +Cranham: i still think the spikes toxic t-wave play rough set
[16:34:31] +Cranham: would be more optimal here
[16:34:34] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: eh i guess
[16:35:18] +Cranham: it applies more pressure than that set
[16:35:35] %Lord Outrage: that set gives bulk
[16:35:37] %Lord Outrage: to the team
[16:35:46] +Cranham: the team is too passive
[16:35:50] +Cranham: for screens imo
[16:35:52] +Cranham: but okay
[16:35:58] %Lord Outrage: and has the chance to come in many times versus offense
[16:36:01] %Lord Outrage: versus mence and rai
[16:36:49] +Cranham: i mean i would agree with you if this was a more offensive build
[16:37:14] +Cranham: since it actually helps out vs opposing offense
[16:37:22] %Lord Outrage: we can turn it
[16:37:26] %Lord Outrage: a but more offensive
[16:37:29] %Lord Outrage: mmmmmm
[16:37:42] +Cranham: if you want screens klefki and a more offensive build sure
[16:38:40] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: is defensive mence really needed since u have groudon and ogre for ho oh?
[16:38:57] +Virachi: ho-oh
[16:39:02] %Lord Outrage: lets say we put scarf landorus instead of groundceus and rockceus with rocks instead of groundceus, then we can replace mence with a more offensive set and put sd on groudon
[16:39:15] +Cranham: how do you feel about Bulky DD mence, Giratina-O with defog > yveltal and maybe spdef pogre
[16:39:21] %Lord Outrage: i mean scarf lando instead of yveltal
[16:39:37] +Virachi: scarf lando
[16:39:39] +Virachi: ok
[16:39:44] +Virachi: added
[16:40:09] %Lord Outrage: we can add then like
[16:40:12] %Lord Outrage: something instead of ogre
[16:40:20] %Lord Outrage: ok lets look a bit at the team first
[16:40:28] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: wait so whats the team now lol
[16:40:38] +Virachi: same thing
[16:40:43] %Lord Outrage: offensive mence/scarf lando/sd groudon/rockceus/klefki
[16:41:08] %Lord Outrage: mmm
[16:41:13] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: whats the 6th?
[16:41:39] +Cranham: Bulky DD mence/ Pdon / Pogre / Groundceus / Klefki / Tina-o
[16:42:07] %Lord Outrage: problem is
[16:42:08] %Lord Outrage: cranham
[16:42:09] %Lord Outrage: with your changes
[16:42:09] %Lord Outrage: he is still weak to stall
[16:42:23] %Lord Outrage: this is looking not bad
[16:42:27] +Cranham: even with Bulky DD mence? lol
[16:42:30] +Cranham: and pogre
[16:42:36] %Lord Outrage: bulky dd mance
[16:42:37] +Cranham: rest pogre is good vs stall
[16:42:38] %Lord Outrage: mence
[16:42:42] %Lord Outrage: can't break stall
[16:42:46] %Lord Outrage: and rest can only absorb status
[16:43:00] %Lord Outrage: its not killing anything
[16:43:12] +Cranham: Idk I have that build and i havent had issues playing stall
[16:43:49] +Cranham: its just a long game vs a competent player but i have a decent matchup
[16:44:17] %Lord Outrage: noway you can break stall tho
[16:44:21] %Lord Outrage: really
[16:44:42] +Cranham: rest primals are so good vs stall cause they cant break it
[16:44:42] %Lord Outrage: haxiom
[16:44:44] %Lord Outrage: say something
[16:44:49] %Lord Outrage: :v
[16:44:49] +Cranham: and end up losing their blissey
[16:45:13] #haxiom: hi sorry
[16:45:52] #haxiom: i don't think stalemating stall is a particularly reliable way to beat it
[16:46:02] +Cranham: [21:40:21] %Lord Outrage: offensive mence/scarf lando/sd groudon/rockceus/klefki
[16:46:06] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: m2 or something perhaps?
[16:46:07] +Cranham: Idk how i feel about this build
[16:46:13] +Cranham: it's weak to ogre
[16:46:24] %Lord Outrage: it still has
[16:46:28] %Lord Outrage: 1 free slot
[16:47:08] +Virachi: lati?
[16:47:11] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i mean it does have pdon, but other than that, ogre indeed looks annoying
[16:47:38] %Lord Outrage: i would say latios
[16:47:44] %Lord Outrage: for last
[16:47:58] %Lord Outrage: offensive mence/scarf lando/sd groudon/rockceus/klefki.latios
[16:48:05] %Lord Outrage: how does that look
[16:48:10] +Cranham: it looks okay
[16:48:19] +Virachi: good
[16:48:23] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: that looks solid
[16:48:29] %Lord Outrage: ok go for like
[16:48:30] #haxiom: yeah it looks solid to me as well
[16:48:41] %Lord Outrage: 3 moves+defog
[16:48:43] %Lord Outrage: on latios
[16:49:07] %Lord Outrage: i think this teams
[16:49:07] +Cranham: yh
[16:49:09] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: defog draco psyshock hp fire/gk?
[16:49:14] %Lord Outrage: hp fire
[16:49:16] %Lord Outrage: sounds good
[16:49:16] +Cranham: gk psyshock defog draco
[16:49:26] %Lord Outrage: or grass knot
[16:49:28] %Lord Outrage: mmmmm
[16:49:39] %Lord Outrage: i would say know
[16:49:39] +Virachi: so no recovery
[16:49:40] %Lord Outrage: yh
[16:49:41] +Virachi: ight
[16:49:47] %Lord Outrage: knot
[16:49:49] +Cranham: gk so you dont have to draco a weakend pdon
[16:49:54] +Cranham: and let ekiller in for free
[16:49:56] #haxiom: i feel like darkrai + mence + ekiller is annoying for this
[16:49:58] %Lord Outrage: also for ttae
[16:49:59] %Lord Outrage: ttar
[16:50:02] %Lord Outrage: like
[16:50:04] +Cranham: yeah that too
[16:50:13] %Lord Outrage: that gives mence
[16:50:15] %Lord Outrage: way more freedom
[16:50:16] +Cranham: Thats where the screens klefki comes in
[16:50:21] %Lord Outrage: and since ttar carries rocks usually
[16:50:28] %Lord Outrage: if you kill it
[16:50:31] %Lord Outrage: its becomes easier
[16:50:36] %Lord Outrage: yh
[16:50:41] %Lord Outrage: keep your klefki too
[16:50:49] %Lord Outrage: so this workshop ends here
[16:50:57] %Lord Outrage: we did a good job
[16:51:01] #haxiom: any questions virachi?
[16:51:08] +Virachi: none ty
[16:51:14] %Lord Outrage: special thx to sado and cranham
[16:51:26] %Lord Outrage: we really appreciated both your presences
[16:51:38] +Virachi: yep
[16:51:47] #haxiom: alright then
(haxiom set modchat to autoconfirmed)
Moderated chat was set to autoconfirmed!
Only users of rank autoconfirmed and higher can talk.
(Virachi was demoted to Room regular user by haxiom.)
[16:51:57] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: i mean, i think the real person to think here is outrage :]
[16:52:01] +Futatsuiwa of Sado: thank*
[16:52:09] %Lord Outrage: WORKSHOP OFFICIALLY DONE THANKS ALL
[16:52:12] %Lord Outrage: thx sado :3
[16:52:18] +Cranham: thanks LO
[16:52:19] %Lord Outrage: we all did well tho