PK_Gaming	Yo C_M
16:30	PK_Gaming	you sure Taunt should be slashed over Poison Jab on the Dragon Dance set for Haxorus?
16:30	PK_Gaming	Part of Haxorus' is appeal is its ability to punch out Azumarill and Clefable
16:30	PK_Gaming	and Taunt doesn't seem to useful on the DD set
16:30	Colonel_M	I'm still 50/50 on it
16:30	Colonel_M	Because
16:30	Colonel_M	Taunt can completely shut down
16:30	Colonel_M	Skarmory
16:31	Colonel_M	iunno i think poison jab should be first
16:31	Colonel_M	i like taunt though
16:31	Colonel_M	taunt is really cool against some Pokemon
16:31		*** Redew is now known as Redeway
16:31	PK_Gaming	Hmm
16:31	Colonel_M	unfortunately
16:31	Colonel_M	one issue is
16:31	PK_Gaming	the advantage against Skarm is pretty cool
16:31	Colonel_M	Haxorus is not that sturdy
16:31	Colonel_M	like
16:31	Colonel_M	being 3HKOed by Gliscor EQ
16:31	PK_Gaming	Does Brave Bird push Skarmory into 2HKO range for Outrage
16:31	Colonel_M	is total ass
16:31	PK_Gaming	yep
16:32	Colonel_M	uh
16:32	Colonel_M	let me check
16:32	Colonel_M	im just going to assume
16:32	Colonel_M	44 Def Evs
16:32	Colonel_M	er nvm
16:32	Colonel_M	just the standard atm
16:33	Colonel_M	lol
16:33	Colonel_M	not even close
16:33	Colonel_M	DD is so weak
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16:33	Colonel_M	+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 102-120 (30.5 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
16:33	Colonel_M	see my problem with haxorus is
16:33	Colonel_M	in most ways Zard X is better
16:33	Colonel_M	The only real
16:33	Colonel_M	significant
16:34	Colonel_M	perk I feel it has
16:34	PK_Gaming	+1 252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 101-119 (30.23 - 35.62%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
16:34	PK_Gaming	damn that's weak
16:34	Colonel_M	is Swords Dance does massive damage to most stall teams
16:34	Colonel_M	With Mold Breaker trolling the Unaware users
16:34	PK_Gaming	We're looking at a 3HKO
16:34	Colonel_M	so pretty much
16:34	Colonel_M	taunt is only good
16:34	Colonel_M	on non-BB Skarm
16:34	PK_Gaming	still, being able to deny recovery from Skarmory is kinda cool
16:34	Colonel_M	or if you're using... SD
16:35	PK_Gaming	well I bet BB does a ton to Skarm too
16:35	PK_Gaming	since Haxorus is pretty frail
16:35	Colonel_M	about 38 min
16:35	PK_Gaming	how much recoil is that?
16:35	Colonel_M	!data brave bird
16:35	TIBot	Brave Bird - Flying | Physical | Power: 120 | Accuracy: 100% | PP: 15 (24) | Flags: Contact | Has 33% recoil.
16:35	Colonel_M	that's the recoil
16:35	Colonel_M	118*.33
16:35	Colonel_M	38.94
16:35	Colonel_M	iunno
16:36	Colonel_M	I have no problem with Taunt or Poison Jab being first
16:36	SwampLink	SD Hax can probably smash fable with eq anyway
16:36	Colonel_M	so long as Taunt is there
16:36	Colonel_M	you would be surprised SwampLink
16:36	Colonel_M	+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 230-271 (58.3 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
16:36	Colonel_M	Now
16:36	Colonel_M	if it is calm
16:37	SwampLink	damn
16:37	Colonel_M	dead fable
16:37	SwampLink	life orb does better at least
16:37	SwampLink	but yeah
16:37	Colonel_M	iunno
16:37	Colonel_M	see when i looked at haxorus
16:37	Colonel_M	i tried to see what it has an advantage on all the other dragons
16:37	PK_Gaming	Has 33% recoil.
16:37	Colonel_M	poison jab was a mediocre one
16:37	PK_Gaming	oh sweet
16:37	Colonel_M	but i think
16:37	Colonel_M	the biggest one
16:37	Colonel_M	is that Swords Dance arguably trolls stall
16:38	SwampLink	i feel taunt is better suited for stuff like gyarados that can actually not be scared of things
16:38	Colonel_M	the problem is
16:38	Colonel_M	stall is just there
16:38	Colonel_M	it's not always a prominent style
16:38	Colonel_M	it's not the only style
16:38	Colonel_M	and on things like HO and some balanced teams SD Haxorus can't cut it
16:38	Colonel_M	or dare I say
16:38	Colonel_M	Hax it
16:38	PK_Gaming	yeah i just checked the culmulative Haxorus usage%
16:39	PK_Gaming	err SPL
16:39	PK_Gaming	Clefable had 19% usage (the 6 most used)
16:39	Colonel_M	are they all bold
16:39	Colonel_M	?
16:39	PK_Gaming	And Azumarill's not all that far behind
16:39	PK_Gaming	so Poison Jab is a must
16:39	Colonel_M	yeah i made poison jab the main slash again
16:39	Colonel_M	i think taunt is cool to mention
16:39	PK_Gaming	ace
16:39	Colonel_M	at least as a secondary slash
16:39	PK_Gaming	yeah
16:40	PK_Gaming	i agree
16:40	Colonel_M	I also think
16:40	Colonel_M	Adamant is better than Jolly
16:40	Colonel_M	Jolly is only good for like
16:40	Colonel_M	"oh look Adamant Zard X that didn't get a DD"
16:40	Colonel_M	which that scenario is almost never
16:40	Colonel_M	unless it's bulkyzard
16:40	Colonel_M	which haxorus still kind of hates due to WoW
16:41	Colonel_M	also this is what i said about swords dance in the thread
16:41	Colonel_M	(for others to see)
16:41	Colonel_M	I think Swords Dance can be in Moves or just stay in OO. The only problem is stall is really dangerous because Unaware Clefable and Quagsire have been seeing use in it with Mega Venusaur, Eviolite Chansey, and Hippowdon. Swords Dance Haxorus can usually plow through a little easier than some Pokemon thanks to Mold Breaker completely ignoring Quagsire and Cle
16:41	PK_Gaming	Well
16:41	Colonel_M	fable and Poison Jab scoring on Clefable anyway. That is one reason I'm really skeptical about keeping Swords Dance in OO.
16:41	PK_Gaming	I was thinking of Jolly because of Scarf users like Excadrill and Rotom
16:41	PK_Gaming	but they don't usually use +speed
16:41	Colonel_M	that and scarf is kind of rare on them
16:42	PK_Gaming	so... yeah, Adamant's probably better
16:42	PK_Gaming	Actually, scarf is fairly common on Excadrill
16:42	Colonel_M	!usage excadrill items
16:42	TIBot	Air Balloon 51.663% | Leftovers 13.033% | Choice Scarf 10.258% | Life Orb 8.174% | Focus Sash 6.250% | Assault Vest 5.532% | Choice Band 1.044% | Other 4.045%
16:42	PK_Gaming	Scarf Excadrill is pretty clutch due to its ability to shutdown Thundurus
16:42	PK_Gaming	baka, not PS
16:42	Colonel_M	ah
16:42	Colonel_M	spl
16:42	Colonel_M	?
16:42	PK_Gaming	tournaments!
16:42	PK_Gaming	Indeed
16:42	Colonel_M	ah okay
16:42	Colonel_M	i almost thought most would just use
16:42	Colonel_M	fat hippo
16:42	Colonel_M	to shut down thundurus
16:42	Colonel_M	:|
16:43	PK_Gaming	Well Scarf Excadrill is an offensive Pokemon
16:43	Colonel_M	or quag or venu but hyper offensive
16:43	PK_Gaming	it does more than that
16:43	Colonel_M	likes scarf exca
16:43	Colonel_M	so yeah
16:43	Colonel_M	okay i see
16:43	Colonel_M	i need to see spl stats some more. i watch a couple matches but i never know what is being used.
16:43	PK_Gaming	but it's generally used for being one of the only offensive Pokemon in the game that's immune to THundurus's bullshit
16:44	PK_Gaming	I went through all of them, haha
16:44	Colonel_M	lol
16:44	Colonel_M	k
16:44	Colonel_M	so i adjusted it to that
16:45	Colonel_M	i think i'll leave swords dance open to qc or just be mentioned in moves
16:45	Colonel_M	i think it's a little better than OO material
16:45	Colonel_M	SD Haxorus at least puts major dents in a lot of stall
16:46	PK_Gaming	absolutely
16:46	Colonel_M	it just stinks because
16:46	Colonel_M	ironically
16:46	PK_Gaming	Stall teams that utilized the pokemon you listed were fairly common
16:46	Colonel_M	you have to shut down clefable before using outrage
16:46	Colonel_M	but yeah if you can shut down fable
16:46	Colonel_M	+2 Outrage will shut down the rest
16:46	PK_Gaming	right
16:46	Colonel_M	and Lum will at least stop Toxic or weird WoW shenanigans
16:47	Colonel_M	or at worst confusion XD
16:47	PK_Gaming	What does the rest of the team think?
16:47	Colonel_M	im not sure
16:47	PK_Gaming	Cores that utilize Mandibuzz / Skarmory / etc
16:47	Colonel_M	because jaroda approached it today
16:47	PK_Gaming	are really common
16:47	Colonel_M	one issue with mandibuzz
16:47	PK_Gaming	and Haxorus can break those
16:47	Colonel_M	is foul play
16:47	PK_Gaming	I think SD is justified
16:47	Colonel_M	i think so too
16:47	PK_Gaming	you can knock it out with +2 outrage though
16:47	Colonel_M	stall may not be the most common
16:48	Colonel_M	but haxorus is one of the best meta stallbreakers at this time
16:48	PK_Gaming	+2 252+ Atk Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 328-387 (77.54 - 91.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
16:48	PK_Gaming	GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE
16:48	Colonel_M	which means
16:48	PK_Gaming	Oh my goooooooooood
16:48	PK_Gaming	lmao
16:48	Colonel_M	if you can at least get Stealth Rock on there
16:48	SwampLink	can one assume rocks?
16:48	PK_Gaming	idk, maybe
16:48	Colonel_M	well you could just have LO too
16:48	Colonel_M	or
16:48	Colonel_M	Draco Plate
16:48	PK_Gaming	some stall teams are really aggressive with Defog
16:49	Colonel_M	+2 252+ Atk Draco Plate Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 394-465 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
16:49	SwampLink	it might just be me, but i always prefer the non-plate boosting items outside of ubers
16:49	Colonel_M	and finally
16:49	Colonel_M	+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 426-503 (100.4 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
16:49	Colonel_M	but LO has one minor flaw
16:49	Colonel_M	it can be worn out by non-Sand Force Hippo's sand
16:49	Colonel_M	and a potential toxic is deadly
16:50	Colonel_M	unless you use taunt
16:50	SwampLink	sd hax is still shut down by skarm, which is fairly common on stall
16:50	Colonel_M	well
16:50	Colonel_M	if it's taunt hax
16:50	Colonel_M	skarm could possibly do
16:50	Colonel_M	absolutely
16:50	Colonel_M	nothing
16:51	Colonel_M	and honestly on Swords Dance
16:51	SwampLink	but then it'll lose to fable or something else probably
16:51	Colonel_M	well
16:51	Colonel_M	to be honest
16:51	Colonel_M	with SD Hax
16:51	Colonel_M	I think the goal is
16:51	Colonel_M	find something to kill fable
16:51	Colonel_M	get Haxorus in
16:51	Colonel_M	SD
16:51	Colonel_M	Outrage
16:51	Colonel_M	gg no re
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16:51	Colonel_M	i know it is easier said than done of course
16:51	Colonel_M	but taunt helps make it a little easier
16:51	SwampLink	i mean, dd hax kind of sucks compared to every other dd dragon in ou
16:52	Colonel_M	DD Hax has a problem of being worse than Zard X
16:52	SwampLink	and whatever it can try to do, it does better with sd
16:52	PK_Gaming	Yeah lum is vital
16:52	PK_Gaming	Colonel_M	DD Dragons has a problem of being worse than Zard X
16:52	PK_Gaming	fixed!
16:52	Colonel_M	lol
16:52	Colonel_M	so true
16:52	Colonel_M	though DNite at least has
16:52	Colonel_M	ESpeed
16:52	PK_Gaming	oh right I guess dnite still rocks
16:53	Colonel_M	for bitchflame / megabitchser
16:53	PK_Gaming	but DD Mence is garbage
16:53	Colonel_M	oh yeah def
16:53	PK_Gaming	DD Hax is a bitch
16:53	Colonel_M	DD Mence requires way too much team support
16:53	PK_Gaming	DD Latios
16:53	Colonel_M	arguably more than DD Hax
16:53	PK_Gaming	heh, actually his mega evo seems like a good candidate
16:53	Colonel_M	because DD Mence needs Pokemon weakened for Moxie
16:53	PK_Gaming	right
16:53	PK_Gaming	and DD Mence is awful against Fairy-types
16:53	Colonel_M	i think
16:53	Colonel_M	with haxorus
16:53	Colonel_M	we need qc discussion on this
16:53	Colonel_M	with others
16:54	Colonel_M	because personally
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16:54	Colonel_M	I see SD Hax being better
16:54	Colonel_M	but others like Jaroda
16:54	Colonel_M	think DD is its most viable set
16:54	PK_Gaming	Alright
16:54	Colonel_M	but i really think SD needs to be discussed
16:55	Colonel_M	if we at least go by SPL's standards of stall
16:55	Colonel_M	SD Haxorus is arguably one of the better stallbreakers
16:55	PK_Gaming	hopefully the others show up
16:55	Colonel_M	yeah
16:55	Colonel_M	I'll tag them
16:55	Colonel_M	do you mind if i copy -> paste this convo?
16:55	PK_Gaming	not at all
PK_Gaming	and for the record, i'm inclined to disagree with that assessment. The are some frighteningly good stallbreakers that aren't fragile or beaten by fairy/steel combo
16:56	PK_Gaming	it's "decent" though, much like how I think SD is decent on hax
16:56	PK_Gaming	and with it being banned to BL this is literally its only shot at being used, lol