[4/18/15, 3:36:30 PM] ebugle: That being said, I personally have no intention of pursuing that particular outcome at the moment, and it's unlikely I ever will. Asking someone else out (or in this case, to become romantic partners) is unappealing to me in general. I'd rather the other person ask because, in my mind, whether or not -they- want the relationship is substantially more important.
[4/18/15, 3:38:02 PM] ebugle: That and dating/having a romantic partner isn't something I need or actively want. While it's nice and I'd be unlikely to turn someone down if they asked me and I liked them well enough, I don't feel not being in one affects me negatively in any way.
[4/18/15, 3:38:06 PM] abysmalminton: (I am still finding it necessary to note that being in a relationship for the sake of the other person is generally such a bad idea)
[4/18/15, 3:39:14 PM] ebugle: (I can't disagree. I just also don't think the alternative is -possible- where I'm concerned.)
[4/18/15, 3:39:59 PM] abysmalminton: (?)
[4/18/15, 3:40:18 PM] ebugle: (I don't know where you're confused.)
[4/18/15, 3:40:30 PM] abysmalminton: (What is the impossible alternative?)
[4/18/15, 3:40:56 PM] ebugle: (Being in a relationship with someone because I actively want to be?)
[4/18/15, 3:41:19 PM] abysmalminton: (The alternate to being in a relationship that you're not actively interested in is not being in a super happy relationship. It's choosing not to be in a relationship)
[4/18/15, 3:42:15 PM] ebugle: (I think we're arguing semantics here.)
[4/18/15, 3:42:24 PM] abysmalminton: (I don't think so at all.)
[4/18/15, 3:43:27 PM] ebugle: (Well, I don't know what word would be better utilized instead, then.)
[4/18/15, 3:43:40 PM] abysmalminton: In place of what?
[4/18/15, 3:44:00 PM] ebugle: "Alternative".
[4/18/15, 3:44:34 PM] abysmalminton: That and dating/having a romantic partner isn't something I need or actively want. While it's nice and I'd be unlikely to turn someone down if they asked me and I liked them well enough, I don't feel not being in one affects me negatively in any way.
[5:38:10 PM] abysmalminton: (I am still finding it necessary to note that being in a relationship for the sake of the other person is generally such a bad idea)
[4/18/15, 3:45:09 PM] ebugle: I am not sure how that is supposed to clarify anything.
[4/18/15, 3:45:30 PM] abysmalminton: I am saying that choosing to be in a relationship that you don't honestly care about for the sake of the other person is a bad idea that you should not do
[4/18/15, 3:46:05 PM] ebugle: Right.
[4/18/15, 3:46:08 PM] abysmalminton: I could lard that up with 'in most cases' and 'probably's or whatever, but that's the basic point I'm making which I have said on multiple occasions and I don't think you've ever really recognized?
[4/18/15, 3:47:23 PM] Softy8088: But, taking what Bugle has said into account, Sharp is effectively saying that Bugle should not be in a relationship, period.
[4/18/15, 3:47:41 PM] ebugle: He is! That's fine.
[4/18/15, 3:47:49 PM] abysmalminton: Well. Not one he's not actively interested in.
[4/18/15, 3:48:28 PM] abysmalminton: Extending - if he were to find a relationship where both parties entered into it with very clear expectations about what they could and couldn't give, that would also be fine. But that's tricky isn't it?
[4/18/15, 3:48:36 PM] abysmalminton: How well did that work with Exuno in the long run?
[4/18/15, 3:48:55 PM] ebugle: Fairly well from my perspective?
[4/18/15, 3:49:26 PM] ebugle: Exuno apparently took nothing from it, though, so I dunno =P
[4/18/15, 3:50:04 PM] abysmalminton: Bugle, you don't view relationships in the same way (and with same amount of impact) as most people do, and that's great and that's you. But you really need to take into account what other people want, and I would say that the vast majority of humans -do- want someone who is actively invested and not just going along with things because it's easy enough and doesn't inconvenience them to do so
[4/18/15, 3:50:37 PM] abysmalminton: I'm being kind of unnecessarily straightforward and/or mean here, sorry.
[4/18/15, 3:50:51 PM] ebugle: Ah-hah! Okay.
[4/18/15, 3:51:21 PM] ebugle: I was about to say that I thought I understood what point you were making, but you seemed instant I didn't so I needed more clarification.
[4/18/15, 3:51:28 PM] ebugle: But I think you just gave it.
[4/18/15, 3:51:36 PM] abysmalminton: I feel like taking the approach of trying to be nice and agreeing to be in a relationship with someone won't ever really cause you problems, but has the potential to seriously hurt someone you do like. And I don't want that to happen?
[4/18/15, 3:51:56 PM] ebugle: Yes, that makes more sense.
[4/18/15, 3:58:21 PM] Softy8088: That is interesting.
[4/18/15, 4:02:01 PM] Softy8088: On 4/18/15, at 3:50 PM, abysmalminton wrote:
> Bugle, you don't view relationships in the same way (and with same amount of impact) as most people do, and that's great and that's you. But you really need to take into account what other people want, and I would say that the vast majority of humans -do- want someone who is actively invested and not just going along with things because it's easy enough and doesn't inconvenience them to do so
I could see myself in a relationship like this, provided some other requirements were met.
[4/18/15, 4:41:19 PM] ebugle: On 4/18/2015, at 5:50 PM, abysmalminton wrote:
> Bugle, you don't view relationships in the same way (and with same amount of impact) as most people do, and that's great and that's you. But you really need to take into account what other people want, and I would say that the vast majority of humans -do- want someone who is actively invested and not just going along with things because it's easy enough and doesn't inconvenience them to do so

I just wanna say I didn't find this mean at all and I'm not sure why you would have. I was having difficulty understanding something and you pointed it out in a clear and concise matter that helped foster that understanding. Isn't that the opposite of being mean?
[4/18/15, 4:47:05 PM] Exuno: A lot of people stop at "pointed out a difficulty", I think
[4/18/15, 5:19:59 PM] abysmalminton: Mainly because it's ultimately your business, and I'm being rather intrusive in my advice. To the extent that I wouldn't actually say that to someone who I wasn't fairly close to.
[4/18/15, 7:32:49 PM] ebugle: Okay. So, um... I think your rationale actually supports why it's -nice- rather than why it would be mean (and I think ""rude" would be more accurate anyway?)?

To take a less serious example, if Cheese and Ara were talking about using Philomena and Carbo Loader to protect Troublemakers and I overhear and point out that Philo doesn't work in the TM phase, that'd be doing them a service because we're friends and I'm preventing them from making a mistake, right? Now if it were two people who'd never even heard of me, that would be a bit rude as I'm butting into their conversation (regardless of if I am right), but with people I know and who know me, I'd think it'd be considered valuable input.

It's the same thing here, isn't it? You perceive that I am making a mistake and want to point it out to me so that I don't make it. And because we're close, that should be acceptable behavior, rather than being mean/rude, right?

Now I know that a lot of people consider "you probably shouldn't date people =\" to be substantially heavier advice than "You probably shouldn't combine those two cards =\", but I don't get why the situation should be treated any different. So if they -should-, could you point out why?
[4/18/15, 7:42:26 PM] abysmalminton: 'This doesn't work due to the constraints of the game' is something that can be objectively proven whereas 'this is problematic because of how relationships work' can't really. And the fact that it's heavier is a big deal... Just not as much to you, because it's not really heavier to you, haha.
[4/18/15, 7:43:28 PM] abysmalminton: Relationships/dating/etc are very personal to a lot of people, and coming in from the outside and saying 'you probably shouldn't date people' is like... a thing you have to be very careful about doing.
[4/18/15, 7:44:40 PM] abysmalminton: (In part because despite that -sort- of being my point, I also believe that everyone is deserving of a positive romantic relationship if that is what they wish)
[4/18/15, 7:46:34 PM] abysmalminton: (And again, my point isn't 'you shouldn't date' as much as 'you shouldn't date for these reasons')
[4/18/15, 7:47:12 PM] ebugle: (I actually don't think whether or not I'm -deserving- of it is relevant to whether or not it's a good idea, for the record =P That being said, i agree with that senitment wholeheartedly.)
[4/18/15, 7:47:23 PM] ebugle: So it really is a matter of severity?
[4/18/15, 7:47:50 PM] ebugle: Dating is a substantially bigger deal so advice given should be more heavily considered before it is issued?
[4/18/15, 7:49:29 PM] abysmalminton: It's a pretty different thing trying to communicate to TCO how exactly rules work on Camo-Maud and trying to communicate to TCO that he's being abrasive and could serve to treat people better. Right?
[4/18/15, 7:49:48 PM] ebugle: Hrm... yeah.
[4/18/15, 7:50:08 PM] ebugle: ...Huh.
[4/18/15, 7:50:31 PM] ebugle: I think I just figured it out.
[4/18/15, 7:50:44 PM] ebugle: I don't personally see dating as NEARLY as emotional a thing as everyone else does.
[4/18/15, 7:50:55 PM] abysmalminton: Yeah!
[4/18/15, 7:51:12 PM] ebugle: As evidenced by the fact that I compared a logical based thing to an emotional based one.
[4/18/15, 7:51:17 PM] ebugle: And said "THESE ARE THE SAME!"
[4/18/15, 7:51:26 PM] ebugle: Huh.
[4/18/15, 7:51:39 PM] ebugle: Okay, thanks for helping me work through that!
[4/18/15, 7:51:53 PM] ebugle: (I still don't think it was mean, though =P)
[4/18/15, 7:53:18 PM] ebugle: That is kind of potentially worldview changing, though. I'll need to actually really let that sink in at some point in the future when I'm less tired.
[4/18/15, 7:59:40 PM] Softy8088: It's about level of perceived or assumed emotional investment. Telling someone that they're wrong about something is safer if they aren't emotionally tied to that thing. There are few things more emotional (in both magnitude and duration) than romantic relationships.
[4/18/15, 9:24:32 PM] ebugle: Oh, that's a good way of putting it too.
[4/18/15, 9:24:38 PM] ebugle: Thank you!
[4/18/15, 9:28:43 PM] ebugle: Hrm.
[4/18/15, 9:28:58 PM] ebugle: I really, really like this revelation.
[4/18/15, 9:29:15 PM] ebugle: Or rather, I like that I understand this a whole lot better now.
[4/18/15, 9:29:55 PM] ebugle: Also, I suppose that's why "mean" was the word chosen, rather than rude too. Because, uh... to just about anyone else it probably would have been.
[4/18/15, 9:32:32 PM] ebugle: [Watching episode.]