"Skewed Logic"

Never tell your password to anyone.
Sunday, March 03, 2013
Shoe: gg bitch
Shoe: ey
Shoe: quit banning me nigga
+fwd Moose: Ey
Shoe: month ban wtf
Shoe: i dont even go on the forums LOL
+fwd Moose: enjoy
+fwd Moose: then you won't miss it
Shoe: yo y u so butthurt seriously
Shoe: not even trying to insult right now
+fwd Moose: Also if this keeps up you're looking at getting everyone in that group temp-banned from play for sandbagging and poor sportsmanship
+fwd Moose: Don't insult my league
Shoe: aint no1 insulting your league
Shoe: you're so blind to shit that goes on lol
+fwd Moose: This shit you ringlead is an insult
Shoe: how so
+fwd Moose: We get complaints all the time about this
+fwd Moose: Kai's right and she gets about half the complaints we do
+fwd Moose: about you guys
Shoe: wait
Shoe: so getting complaints = validity?
+fwd Moose: pretending to be a zero-skill iron team looking to get into S10
+fwd Moose: one or two isn't
+fwd Moose: 7 or 8 is
Shoe: so if i complain constantly about something with childish merit
Shoe: yo
Shoe: how does that harm either party in logical standards
Shoe: can you tell me lol
Shoe: i'm actually prepared to argue on a logical basis
Shoe: not just on emotional appeal
Shoe: can you tell me?
+fwd Moose: I've told you what I need to tell you
Shoe: yo, but it doesn't make any logical sense
Shoe: as i said, i'm ready to argue from a logical perspective, not an emotional one
Shoe: you preach respect, yet you won't give me the respect of a real explanation
+fwd Moose: Explain away
Shoe: explain away what
Shoe: specify and i will
+fwd Moose: why are you telling teams that you're a zeroskill Iron team?
+fwd Moose: then scrim them and roll them
Shoe: you better post this on ugc
Shoe: as a full explanation
Shoe: because people don't seem to understand what's happening here
Shoe: it first began as a zeroskill iron team
Shoe: cause we were fucking around on a friday night
+fwd Moose: With who on it
Shoe: lol
Shoe: is your only motive to ban people?
Shoe: ban people for something you can't ban them for
+fwd Moose: No, I'm not banning anyone from gameplay tonight
Shoe: tonight?
+fwd Moose: Continue your story
Shoe: your argument is
Shoe: it's disrespectful because we're telling people we're a zerksill iron team
+fwd Moose: No no no, keep telling me why you made NBK
Shoe: and it's disrespectful to scrim and roll them
Shoe: k
Shoe: NBK is just for fun
Shoe: they're just scrims
Shoe: if I wanted to play people from ETF2L, then NBK is the same concept
Shoe: it's basically if we're bored, we'll get an
Shoe: NBK
Shoe: like lobbies
Shoe: i prefer tf2 in this order
Shoe: matches>scrims>pug>nbk>lobbies>pubs
Shoe: in essence NBK doesn't do anything harmful
Shoe: the only thing that makes it harmful is the stupidity of the people that get scrimmed
Shoe: that's an explanation of NBKL
+fwd Moose: Then why do you bother scrimming iron teams
Shoe: -L
Shoe: we dont lol
Shoe: in the beginning we played an iron team
Shoe: and it was horrible
Shoe: i've been getting high silver/gold teams
Shoe: because rolling over iron, isnt fun lol
Shoe: as i said, you see ALOT of emotional appeal
Shoe: and there's no logic in them
Shoe: it's a bunch of people complaining, that's about it
Shoe: did you see my post about nbk ruining my life?
Shoe: that's a parody
Shoe: no1 gets their life ruined by getting scrimmed
+fwd Moose: It was very thinly veiled sarcasm
Shoe: how so
Shoe: couldnt tell with the slaves?
Shoe: so
Shoe: now that you know something about nbk
Shoe: what's your major problem with it
Shoe: and i'll explain
+fwd Moose: I just don't want to hear another complaint that you guys are being dishonest about what you're doing
+fwd Moose: That's it
Shoe: ok lol
Shoe: you're gunna hear complaints because people are stupid
+fwd Moose: Then be honest
+fwd Moose: it's not very difficult
Shoe: nah
Shoe: here's the thing
Shoe: if my team went into a lobby
Shoe: let's say all of LBP went into a lobby
Shoe: made alts
Shoe: and pretended like they were scrubs
Shoe: or we all went into mix or pug
Shoe: and captained and picked my entire team
Shoe: like many teams do
Shoe: aka lobby stack
+fwd Moose: I can't do anything about what you do in lobby or pug
Shoe: isn't that theoretically causing the same damage
Shoe: as NBK?
+fwd Moose: Don't do it to the players in my league
Shoe: i'm asking them for scrims
Shoe: how's that harmful
+fwd Moose: Scrims at what level
Shoe: we offclass
Shoe: we use shit weapons
Shoe: using quick fix
Shoe: leme get your quote
Shoe: "and they're jerking each other off over how quickly they can roll an iron team with a combined total of a couple hundred hours in TF2"
+fwd Moose: From what you've explained that sounds pretty much correct
Shoe: how so
Shoe: as i said
Shoe: we try our hardest not to roll them
Shoe: on a cp_steel game we gave up A at 1 minute to let them cap
Shoe: so how's that stroking our egos?
+fwd Moose: Most teams give up A on defense
Shoe: you're fucking retarded lol
+fwd Moose: relatively early
Shoe: we defended A
Shoe: until 1 minute
Shoe: then we called for every1 to leave A so they can cap it
Shoe: it's not an argument of strategy
Shoe: but my argument is a logical objection to yours that we stroke our egos
+fwd Moose: So you gave a team a cap on a point
+fwd Moose: ...congrats?
Shoe: we gave them 4 points
+fwd Moose: I don't know
Shoe: just so we can play it longer
Shoe: just so we don't roll them in 2 minutes
+fwd Moose: But you could
Shoe: except the one game where they were 40 minutes late
Shoe: ye
Shoe: that was 1 of the complaints ye?
Shoe: they were 40 mins late and we had to play u guys afterwards
Shoe: so we 20 minuted them rather than not playing
Shoe: but that also brings the question
Shoe: how does it really harm a team?
Shoe: you learn from experience, and playing better players is a far better experience than 1. not playing 2. playing bad players
Shoe: or even 3. playing players on your own level
Shoe: do you ever see TG scrimming gold teams much anymore?
+fwd Moose: We wouldn't be either if I had my team online for scrims
Shoe: so
Shoe: you're agreeing with me
+fwd Moose: There's a difference between playing a higher team to learn from what they were doing differently
Shoe: that people shouldn't get mad for playing a higher team
+fwd Moose: and playing a shit-stomping team running SCUM-level loadouts
Shoe: NBK isn't about 9 people running with their heads between their asses
+fwd Moose: because you don't learn anything from it
Shoe: how so
Shoe: you learn to play against strategies that are either
Shoe: unconventional
Shoe: or
Shoe: easy enough that you should know how to counter them
Shoe: here's a bazaar bargain argument
Shoe: that i pulled out of thin air
Shoe: if my sniper used bazaar bargain in an NBK
Shoe: his damage output would be reduced
Shoe: wouldn't you consider that a scum level loadout?>
Shoe: so if the team can't handle
Shoe: a lower level loadout
Shoe: then the team should "adapt to it and transcend it"
Shoe: therefore making them better
Shoe: it's like a blackbelt teaching a brown how to fight by beating the shit out of him mercilessly
Shoe: instead of throwing multiple soft kicks so the brown can learn how to adapt
Shoe: would you say that's a correct analogy?
Shoe: for a logical argument
Shoe: or have you left the keyboard or are just not looking at these comments
Shoe: guess that's the end of this conversation lol
+fwd Moose: No, I'm just trying to figure out how to show that your logic is flawed
Shoe: without actually using logic
+fwd Moose: But I can't even come up with the words for how skewed your perception of it is
Shoe: so tell me
Shoe: please enlighten me
Shoe: i gave you arguments supported by analogies and true statements
Shoe: but based on your statement
Shoe: could it also be that your statement applies to you?
Shoe: tell you what
Shoe: if a single person that's been nbked
Shoe: has left your league
Shoe: or commited suicide
Shoe: or chopped of his own leg in protest
Shoe: i'll stop nbking
Shoe: otherwise the bitching against what I do is unmerited
Shoe: i chose to have fun, and some teams that get nbked have a good attitude about it
Shoe: some teams don't, and their bitching is unmerited
+fwd Moose: If you're dishonest about what you are then by all means any complaints we receive are in fact merited
+fwd Moose: and you've already told me you're not willing to tell teams that you're just a bunch of gold and plat players that want to dick around
Shoe: so your whole argument
Shoe: is based on the fact that I lie about what team i'm on
Shoe: so i can get scrims?
Shoe: is that your argument
Shoe: cause that can be very easily broken down
Shoe: just say yes
+fwd Moose: I don't care what you do in the scrims themselves, but there are rules in this league pertaining to sportsmanship that I'm compelled to uphold
Shoe: in matches
Shoe: right?
Shoe: is that why you can't ban me because of scrims?
Shoe: probably a reason for that lol.
+fwd Moose: Those rules don't pertain to only matches, disruptive or rude behavior towards our teams can be acted upon at any time if a problem persists
Shoe: guess that argument stems in the fact
Shoe: that a team is rude towards another
Shoe: but let's say this
Shoe: i nbk a team
Shoe: and the only reason a team is mad is because they found out
Shoe: we've had teams not find out during the game and have a good attitude about it later
Shoe: or teams that find out in the game and still have a good attitude
Shoe: so would it be accurate to say
Shoe: that teams get mad and find out
Shoe: therefore, that causes their anger?
Shoe: would you say that's the case?
Shoe: yo
Shoe: wake up
+fwd Moose: If you're not honest about the history of nbk then yeah, I'd be pretty upset
Shoe: ok then
Shoe: would it not logically follow
+fwd Moose: If you said "We're a bunch of gold+ players looking to goof off with whoever"
+fwd Moose: and people accept that and scrim you
Shoe: listen
Shoe: you keep repeating the dishonesty thing
+fwd Moose: I wouldn't care if it was a bunch of valve players
Shoe: but i'm arguing against it right now
Shoe: ok listen
Shoe: would it not logically follow then
Shoe: that if the team didn't know we were a higher team, they would not be mad?
+fwd Moose: Justify it to yourself however you like
Shoe: i'm explaining it to you logically
Shoe: stop thinking that nothing I say correlates
Shoe: my arguments contain premises
+fwd Moose: I understand what you're trying to say
+fwd Moose: I do
+fwd Moose: I just don't agree with it
Shoe: what dont you agree with
Shoe: ok leme
Shoe: list it for you hre
Shoe: premise 1: team gets nbked, happy when they find out after
Shoe: prmise 2: team gets nbked, happy after they find out during
Shoe: premise 3: team gets nbked, mad when they find out after
Shoe: conclusion: the reason for teams getting mad is because they find out
Shoe: conclusion: if the team doesn't know, then they wouldn't be mad
+fwd Moose: there shouldn't be a "finding out"
Shoe: and your issue is players' anger
+fwd Moose: if you want to stack against low level players then go play lobbies
Shoe: but i've said this before
Shoe: this has almost the same concept as lobbies
Shoe: without the negative consequences
Shoe: one of our objectives is not the undermining of players
Shoe: but you just told me to do that
+fwd Moose: Negative consequences being what, you're going to get banned from Lobby?  Hell, the guy hasn't even been on Steam in a couple months
Shoe: which is directly conflicting with what you said
Shoe: why the non-sequitur statement
Shoe: hard to get banned from lobby
Shoe: and doesnt correlate to the argument
Shoe: oh another thing
Shoe: everything we have is public
Shoe: even the group's public
Shoe: teams have found out before in the past
+fwd Moose: I don't understand how anything is a negative consequence except to the teams that prepare for a scrim expecting an even and fair matchup
Shoe: and either politely or rudely declined
Shoe: oh that;'s anotehr thing
Shoe: most teams aren't expecting an even and fair matchup
Shoe: contrary to popular belief, most teams are playing the victims
Shoe: if a silver team accepts a game vs an iron team
Shoe: what do you think
+fwd Moose: I don't understand why you'd advertise yourself as an iron team in the first place
Shoe: you think the silver team wants a fair and even matchup?
+fwd Moose: clearly you're not
Shoe: we dont
Shoe: not anymre atleast
Shoe: but that's what alot of the "victims" are playing off as
Shoe: have you never thought of me as logical?
Shoe: do you think i jerk myself off after every game?
Shoe: i do that before i play
Shoe: but that's beside the point
Shoe: the main problem here
Shoe: is people complaining about it
Shoe: which is what you don't want right?
Shoe: as far as i can see logically
Shoe: with my 'skewed' logic
Shoe: players' complaints are due to many unmerited reasons
Shoe: being lied to is a knee-jerk reaction to pin the blame on someone else
Shoe: leme think of an analogy
Shoe: ok let's say
Shoe: A is bullying B
Shoe: B fights back and gives A an injury
Shoe: B is suspended for violence
Shoe: A has faults, but B is punished
Shoe: or in some cases, A is punished, but B is punished even more
Shoe: because he has commited physical injury
Shoe: but in my case
Shoe: if the team nbked is A
Shoe: and i am B
Shoe: B has not caused any harm to A
Shoe: A feels harmed, but is only gunna be feeling harmed for another 2 minutes
Shoe: so punish B for not doing any harm whatsoever
Shoe: even though B may have given A some attributes
Shoe: such as playing in a scrim that increases your skill level
Shoe: that teaches you to make better game decisions
Shoe: what do you think
Shoe: is that analogy logically sound
Shoe: i'm giving you the floor here
Shoe: ey
Shoe: wake up
Shoe: i havent showered in 4 days
+fwd Moose: Wake up? I was trying to go to bed 30 minutes ago
Shoe: was trying to shower 30 mins ago
Shoe: you can end this by giving me a logical argument
+fwd Moose: If the fate of the players in your group was up to me I'd tell you that if you were dishonest about your ability and we continued to receive these complaints that there would be action upon you guys.  However, any decisions have to go through the admins and that may change based on what they read in this chatlog and what complaints, if any, we get in the future.  If you want to goof off, then by all means goof off, but don't mislead the players of this league or your actions may be perceived as sandbagging
Shoe: wouldnt we have to be registered to be officially sandbagging
Shoe: or is making alts gunna be illegal
+fwd Moose: You are registered players of this league, and playing under alts while in an official match is illegal
Shoe: except
Shoe: we dont play under alts...
Shoe: even in scrims
+fwd Moose: Good
Shoe: o
Shoe: so
Shoe: you can't ban me on logical grounds
Shoe: but can on emotional appeal?
Shoe: i better hire a hacker to hack every team we nbk so they cant complain then
Shoe: oh and if this gets up to the admins
Shoe: please send them this convo