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  1. 01[03/28/13 22:23:15] <@Bela> hello
  2. [03/28/13 22:23:46] <@Perri> Hello!
  3. 01[03/28/13 22:31:07] <@Bela> I wanted to basically have a mini-meeting with you about ideas before we have the real meeting tomorrow :P
  4. 01[03/28/13 22:31:52] <@Bela> you said you had some ideas?
  5. [03/28/13 22:33:18] <@Perri> I do! Very sort of general ideas, but still ideas
  6. 01[03/28/13 22:33:25] <@Bela> I'd love to hear them
  7. 01[03/28/13 22:36:12] <@Bela> I have some ideas of my own too
  8. [03/28/13 22:39:04] <@Perri> One idea I've been thinking about a lot is a story that would somehow link between the past and the present, either through actual time travel or just playing through flashbacks and prior events. The past could be represented with graphical changes - the architecture of houses changing; maps rearranging, different NPCs and
  9. [03/28/13 22:39:04] <@Perri> so on. The graphics could even change to GB or GBC era to reflect "past" in comparison to "present"
  10. [03/28/13 22:39:11] <@Perri> No real plot to go with this yet, just a concept
  11. 01[03/28/13 22:43:16] <@Bela> I have a plot-related idea
  12. [03/28/13 22:43:49] <@Perri> I was also thinking about a concept that I'd wanted to mess around with in my first ROM hack; which would be essentially allowing the player to choose their own morality. The "evil team" is whoever you decide it to be
  13. [03/28/13 22:44:00] <@Perri> Sure, I'd love to hear it :)
  14. 01[03/28/13 22:44:04] <@Bela> it started with wanting to do something with Genesect
  15. 01[03/28/13 22:44:22] <@Bela> and so I thought of how Genesect could be treated in a story
  16. 01[03/28/13 22:44:40] <@Bela> and immediately I thought of nuclear weapons
  17. 01[03/28/13 22:45:11] <@Bela> now I know Super Rising Thunder has to do with a disaster of some kind
  18. 01[03/28/13 22:45:25] <@Bela> like, a nuclear disaster I thought
  19. 01[03/28/13 22:45:33] <@Bela> what I was thinking this could be is
  20. 01[03/28/13 22:45:40] <@Bela> a story about impending catastrophe
  21. [03/28/13 22:45:47] <@Perri> Indeed it does, though it's set several hundreds of years after the disaster
  22. 01[03/28/13 22:46:30] <@Bela> I don't know what your political leanings are/if you have any ;P/want to do a story like that, but
  23. 01[03/28/13 22:47:00] <@Bela> I was thinking of something that would essentially be a response to how the world is right now
  24. 01[03/28/13 22:47:27] <@Bela> that's where my mind sits and what it primarily concerns itself with
  25. 01[03/28/13 22:47:34] <@Bela> at this moment in time ;P
  26. 01[03/28/13 22:47:56] <@Bela> now how that would translate into a Pokemon story
  27. 01[03/28/13 22:48:05] <@Bela> is you would have villains who are incredibly powerful
  28. 01[03/28/13 22:48:31] <@Bela> almost untouchable
  29. 01[03/28/13 22:48:58] <@Bela> they would likely be characters who are tied to business or political institutions, which are not things Pokemon has ever shied away from portraying
  30. 01[03/28/13 22:49:14] <@Bela> i.e. the character Snattle in XD, or Blake Hall in Shadows of Almia
  31. [03/28/13 22:49:32] <@Perri> We have to be very careful if we're involving politics or political statements in any way, of course
  32. [03/28/13 22:49:49] <@Perri> Especially on a project with so many people working on it like this
  33. 01[03/28/13 22:50:12] <@Bela> I know it might be tough to do something if it's something that really touches on issues
  34. 01[03/28/13 22:50:26] <@Bela> I think this really is something everyone in the project would agree on
  35. 01[03/28/13 22:50:40] <@Bela> like, every single person who works on this project is someone who
  36. 01[03/28/13 22:50:50] <@Bela> is not part of these upper, elitist classes of society
  37. [03/28/13 22:51:03] <@Perri> There's still ways important statements can be made, but it needs to be made easy to swallow for anyone regardless of their political leanings
  38. 01[03/28/13 22:51:08] <@Bela> they aren't corporate executives or anything lol
  39. 01[03/28/13 22:51:21] <@Bela> I think the way we would do it is
  40. 01[03/28/13 22:51:46] <@Bela> it would construed in a way where there really isn't a direct political message being made
  41. [03/28/13 22:51:52] <@Perri> Yeah
  42. 01[03/28/13 22:52:11] <@Bela> although that can be very interesting actually
  43. 01[03/28/13 22:52:30] <@Bela> like, I think it would be interesting to have a varied cast of villains
  44. 01[03/28/13 22:53:00] <@Bela> some who fit within the mold of what a greedy rich person would be, and others who transcend this
  45. 01[03/28/13 22:53:36] <@Bela> and I think we would need a balance of both
  46. [03/28/13 22:53:45] <@Perri> Definitely, though my preference would be for a plot that isn't so black and white, one where heroes are always good and villains are always bad. The real world isn't that way after all
  47. 01[03/28/13 22:53:52] <@Bela> right
  48. 01[03/28/13 22:54:04] <@Bela> and that's what I mean by having characters who do not fit within the mold
  49. 01[03/28/13 22:54:14] <@Bela> and what I mean by transcending that
  50. 01[03/28/13 22:54:28] <@Bela> because while there are complexities, there really do exist people who are like that
  51. [03/28/13 22:54:35] <@Perri> Yeah :) I mean, we can still have some rotten villains
  52. 01[03/28/13 22:54:39] <@Bela> and I think we would be remiss to ignore that :)
  53. 01[03/28/13 22:55:01] <@Bela> I want to include villains who feel justified and have a philosophy of sorts
  54. 01[03/28/13 22:55:08] <@Bela> characters who are in a strange way likeable
  55. 01[03/28/13 22:55:12] <@Bela> but who are still horrific
  56. [03/28/13 22:55:20] <@Perri> I like the idea
  57. 01[03/28/13 22:55:48] <@Bela> I'm not going to touch on specifics for characters, I think that's something machomuu would do very well on
  58. [03/28/13 22:56:03] <@Perri> Where you can be disgusted by what they do, and rightfully so, but at the same time almost see their point
  59. [03/28/13 22:56:24] <@Perri> Yeah, obviously things can be more ironed out and developed in the former meeting
  60. [03/28/13 22:56:29] <@Perri> *formal
  61.  
  62.  
  63. <@Perri> To bring things back to the hack a bit; I think if we're going to do a story like this we should probably avoid the rote "eight gyms/Elite 4" stuff. It could perhaps START that way in a way to lull the player into a sense of security, but soon turn into something else entirely
  64. 01[03/28/13 23:08:10] <@Bela> I think you could use the Pokemon League as the pokemon version of a government
  65. [03/28/13 23:09:12] <@Perri> I still see the League as more like, say, the NFL than a government. It might come off as a story about sports corruption to focus on an organization that caters only to Trainers
  66. [03/28/13 23:09:47] <@Perri> Surely even PokeJapan has a real government
  67. [03/28/13 23:10:05] <@Perri> Or PokeAmerica if our region is going to be Unova-esque
  68. [03/28/13 23:11:12] <@Perri> Which is another thing...I'mnot sure how to tell this story in the focus of it being, well, a pokemon game
  69. [03/28/13 23:11:19] <@Perri> There's good ideas and I like them, but I worry about how playable it may be
  70. [03/28/13 23:11:31] <@Perri> We might need the League after all in that case
  71. [03/28/13 23:14:11] <@Perri> Perhaps the League is the seat of corruption and battling gyms is...going undercover to do research? Doing it that way though would feel more like forcing the plot to fit the game rather than the plot coming off as natural
  72. [03/28/13 23:14:22] <@Perri> Obviously we need a lot more work ^^' But that's what the real meeting is for
  73. 01[03/28/13 23:16:16] <@Bela> sorry had to take the trash out there
  74. 01[03/28/13 23:16:21] <@Bela> what I've thought about this is
  75. 01[03/28/13 23:17:11] <@Bela> the pokemon league is more like a government in the sense that while it has an elite four and gyms, it actively subverts trainers from challenging them
  76. 01[03/28/13 23:17:47] <@Bela> and so all across the region, trainers are dissuaded from having battles
  77. 01[03/28/13 23:18:29] <@Bela> which I think would work as a way of expressing this new culture of political apathy we have
  78. [03/28/13 23:18:37] <@Perri> True - it may not be "government" in say, the sense that the United States government is government, but it definitely is the governing body as far as Training is concerned
  79. [03/28/13 23:18:48] <@Perri> and we have to remember what a huge part of this world's culture Training is
  80. 01[03/28/13 23:19:18] <@Bela> well, it's also how people like the police come into play in the pokemon universe
  81. 01[03/28/13 23:19:29] <@Bela> they work for the league
  82. 01[03/28/13 23:20:19] <@Bela> all this story would be adding to that, is that the league is controlled by industries that have installed people into the league that allow them to do things an otherwise uncorrupt pokemon league would prevent them from doing
  83. 01[03/28/13 23:20:41] <@Bela> such as polluting, or leeching resources, breaking the law in some way, or what-have-you
  84. 01[03/28/13 23:21:08] <@Bela> and in this way, you could have the "true" villain be the president of the pokemon league
  85. [03/28/13 23:21:26] <@Perri> The champion, basically?
  86. 01[03/28/13 23:21:44] <@Bela> I think I like it better if the champion isn't the villain
  87. 01[03/28/13 23:22:01] <@Bela> it seems more twist-y if the president hijacks your league challenge
  88. 01[03/28/13 23:23:20] <@Bela> this idea originally started with me thinking about the Big Five from YuGiOh, how those were a group of board members
  89. [03/28/13 23:23:33] <@Perri> How like a scumbag corporate executive XD
  90. 01[03/28/13 23:23:36] <@Bela> yeah lol
  91. 01[03/28/13 23:24:17] <@Bela> I think it would be neat if it was like, the villains you face are members of a secret board of executives of some mega, omnipresent corporation, and the chairman of that board and the league president were the same person
  92. 01[03/28/13 23:24:51] <@Bela> and so you were essentially fighting his puppets both through the story fighting the villains, and when at the league
  93. 01[03/28/13 23:26:13] <@Bela> something about that is trippy and cool to me
  94. 01[03/28/13 23:26:18] <@Bela> so I dunno lol ;p
  95. [03/28/13 23:29:45] <@Perri> I must confess though, this isn't a kind of story I have much experience with - a lot of what I write is focused on personal drama and more limited scope. I could describe both Super Rising Thunder and my current fanfic project as "Hero finds himself in an extraordinary circumstance. While struggling to fulfill some larger destiny;
  96. [03/28/13 23:29:45] <@Perri> smaller plotline events during his quest force the Hero to confront who he is - both the good and the bad - and where he stands."
  97. [03/28/13 23:29:51] <@Perri> Not that I'm not willing to try of course XD
  98. 03[03/28/13 23:30:03] * machomuu (442195a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.33.149.166) has joined #pcromhack
  99. [03/28/13 23:30:08] <@Perri> But "corrupt executives" is something I've never written before ^^'
  100. [03/28/13 23:30:16] <@Perri> O-oh hey, look who it is! Hi Machomuu!
  101. [03/28/13 23:30:23] <machomuu> Sorry, I went to the wrong room -.-'
  102. [03/28/13 23:30:26] <machomuu> Hi!
  103. [03/28/13 23:30:45] <@Perri> It's fine :)
  104. 01[03/28/13 23:30:56] <@Bela> hey machomuu! lol
  105. [03/28/13 23:31:33] <@Perri> Darth should be here shortly too
  106. [03/28/13 23:31:34] <machomuu> Are you guys trying to form a basis for the story? I came in on "corrupt executives".
  107. 01[03/28/13 23:31:43] <@Bela> yes lol
  108. 01[03/28/13 23:31:53] <@Bela> just an idea I had for the story
  109. 03[03/28/13 23:32:07] * Darthatron (~Darthatro@CPE-120-144-42-97.lnse5.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #pcromhack
  110. 03[03/28/13 23:32:07] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Darthatron
  111. 01[03/28/13 23:32:09] <@Bela> hello
  112. 03[03/28/13 23:32:15] * Darthatron sets mode: +o machomuu
  113. [03/28/13 23:32:24] <@Darthatron> hello
  114. [03/28/13 23:32:38] <@Perri> Hello!
  115. [03/28/13 23:32:39] <@machomuu> Hey, boss!
  116. 01[03/28/13 23:33:34] <@Bela> so, do you guys want to jump right into it or what
  117. [03/28/13 23:34:35] <@Darthatron> sure, what ever is easy for you
  118. 01[03/28/13 23:34:43] <@Bela> okay
  119. [03/28/13 23:34:51] <@machomuu> Gyms. What do you guys think?
  120. 01[03/28/13 23:35:01] <@Bela> I actually do want to still do gyms
  121. [03/28/13 23:35:07] <@Perri> I'd prefer not to, but if they work with the story it's okay to keep them
  122. [03/28/13 23:35:12] <@Darthatron> gyms are pretty core to the game play I think
  123. 01[03/28/13 23:35:14] <@Bela> I want to retain what a normal pokemon story is like, but flip it on its head
  124. [03/28/13 23:35:18] <@Darthatron> even if they aren't plot driven
  125. [03/28/13 23:36:02] <@Perri> It really depends on the story. A game like Super Rising Thunder can get away with no gyms, while in others they do add a purpose
  126. [03/28/13 23:36:30] <@Darthatron> ^
  127. [03/28/13 23:36:35] <@Perri> So I guess count me as undecided for now
  128. [03/28/13 23:37:06] <@machomuu> We could always have them as side tasks, though I prefer no-gyms, I'd assume the masses would want them in the hack in some form
  129. [03/28/13 23:38:17] <@Darthatron> perhaps we can use some different form
  130. [03/28/13 23:38:22] <@Darthatron> let's talk time period first
  131. [03/28/13 23:38:25] <@Perri> Sure
  132. [03/28/13 23:38:31] <@Darthatron> are we happy with general modern-era pokemon?
  133. 01[03/28/13 23:38:33] <@Bela> I want it to be set in the current time period
  134. [03/28/13 23:38:38] <@Perri> I had a concept for a hack that would be set in the present day, but flash back to the past
  135. [03/28/13 23:38:46] <@Perri> to quote myself from a bit earler
  136. [03/28/13 23:38:47] <@Perri> *earlier
  137. [03/28/13 23:38:59] <@Perri> One idea I've been thinking about a lot is a story that would somehow link between the past and the present, either through actual time travel or just playing through flashbacks and prior events. The past could be represented with graphical changes - the architecture of houses changing; maps rearranging, different NPCs and
  138. [03/28/13 23:39:01] <@Perri> so on. The graphics could even change to GB or GBC era to reflect "past" in comparison to "present"
  139. [03/28/13 23:39:18] <@Perri> There could even be two different heroes if we avoid time travel, the "past" and "present" stories playing out aongside each other
  140. [03/28/13 23:39:28] <@machomuu> I'm fine with current, and I certainly like the concept you raised about the graphics.
  141. [03/28/13 23:39:52] <@Darthatron> sepia tone implies past pretty well too if we wanted to play it safe with tiles
  142. [03/28/13 23:40:40] <@Perri> Sepia is fine too :)
  143. [03/28/13 23:41:14] <@Perri> Though I don't have a story to go along with this concept....just the concept itself
  144. 01[03/28/13 23:41:32] <@Bela> I had an idea for a story
  145. [03/28/13 23:41:43] <@Perri> Though I do also like the idea of a past-set story; I do wonder what retro-tech would be like in the Poke-verse
  146. 01[03/28/13 23:41:47] <@Bela> and I think it could use your idea
  147. 01[03/28/13 23:42:49] <@Bela> so me and PPG were talking earlier
  148. 01[03/28/13 23:43:13] <@Bela> and I had this idea for a story that would ultimately be about Genesect
  149. 01[03/28/13 23:43:36] <@Bela> since I see that Pokemon as something resembling a weapon
  150. 01[03/28/13 23:44:13] <@Bela> and this story would be about how a region is riddled with corruption, and part of this is the danger of it creating this weapon
  151. [03/28/13 23:44:56] <@machomuu> Hm...corruption how?
  152. 01[03/28/13 23:45:43] <@Bela> well
  153. 01[03/28/13 23:46:13] <@Bela> the way in which it is corrupt is a mirror of how the real world appears to be
  154. 01[03/28/13 23:46:28] <@Bela> the concept I'm working with here would almost be a social commentary
  155. 01[03/28/13 23:46:57] <@Bela> instead of talking about a government, the story would use the pokemon league as a repesentation of that
  156. 01[03/28/13 23:47:32] <@Bela> the idea being that you could have a story that illustrates what a corrupt system looks like and how it operates
  157. 01[03/28/13 23:47:42] <@Bela> and the dangers of that system
  158. 01[03/28/13 23:47:55] <@Bela> ultimately, the danger of total annihilation
  159. 01[03/28/13 23:48:22] <@Bela> now that does seem pretty weighty of a pokemon story, but I think it can be done right
  160. 01[03/28/13 23:48:42] <@Bela> you came in on the mention of corrupt executives
  161. [03/28/13 23:50:00] <@Darthatron> I love a bit of corruption in my stories
  162. 01[03/28/13 23:50:07] <@Bela> basically the main villains of this story would be the members of this secret board of corporate executives who essentially control the whole region, and essentially are in control of the pokemon league
  163. [03/28/13 23:50:39] <@Perri> There's definitely a good concept base here :)
  164. [03/28/13 23:51:03] <@Perri> The one thing we'd want to be careful of, and Bela and I already touched on this a bit, is that with any political statement there's the risk of stepping on toes
  165. 01[03/28/13 23:52:13] <@Bela> and I think this would be written in a way that the only way you could be offended is if you were a corporate executive :P
  166. [03/28/13 23:52:30] <@machomuu> I don't think there's any reason to worry about that.
  167. 01[03/28/13 23:52:30] <@Bela> and maybe not even then
  168. 01[03/28/13 23:52:49] <@Bela> as for the villains themselves, I think having a varied cast would be good
  169. 01[03/28/13 23:53:57] <@Bela> I want there to still be that element of general greedy evil villain we've come to know, but only to illustrate that people like that really do exist--I'm more interested in portraying characters who are more complicated characters
  170. 01[03/28/13 23:54:24] <@Bela> characters who are in a way likeable, but horrifying
  171. 01[03/28/13 23:54:54] <@Bela> I think they would make for a really interesting villain to have
  172. [03/28/13 23:55:10] <@machomuu> That's what scares me about corrupt villains, they generally turn into the "greedy and evil" trope.
  173. 01[03/28/13 23:55:28] <@Bela> right, and I get that using that trope looks lazy
  174. [03/28/13 23:55:44] <@Perri> The worry's there for me too - I mentioned earlier that I want to avoid flat out black-and-white morality
  175. [03/28/13 23:55:53] <@machomuu> Agreed
  176. 01[03/28/13 23:56:00] <@Bela> the purpose of using it here though is to give the more complicated villains a foil
  177. 01[03/28/13 23:56:51] <@Bela> or in some way makes the other characters more stark
  178. 01[03/28/13 23:57:56] <@Bela> they would have a use that serves to highlight the other characters' qualitiies :p
  179. 01[03/28/13 23:58:14] <@Bela> and I think it would be effective
  180. [03/28/13 23:58:23] <@machomuu> Then we can always make another organization in the game, one that's less of a threat but more black and white.
  181. 01[03/28/13 23:58:41] <@Bela> yeah
  182. 01[03/28/13 23:59:13] <@Bela> I think it would be neat if like, the person who is the 'chairman' of this group of villains is also the president of the pokemon league
  183. 01[03/28/13 23:59:29] <@Bela> so you essentially fight his puppets throughout the story
  184. Session Time: Fri Mar 29 00:00:00 2013
  185. 01[03/29/13 00:00:29] <@Bela> I think it has a lot of potential
  186. 01[03/29/13 00:00:43] <@Bela> because you could make each of the villains represent a different kind of problem in the world
  187. 01[03/29/13 00:01:57] <@Bela> whether it be like, the reckless activity and seeming impunity of certain financial institutions
  188. 01[03/29/13 00:02:18] <@Bela> or what other industries do in the face of little to no regulation
  189. [03/29/13 00:02:55] <@machomuu> Hm...I think having each of the villains represent a problem could possibly lead to a limitation of what we could do with each character's development and would probably lead to a justification speech in the endgame.
  190. 01[03/29/13 00:03:43] <@Bela> a justification speech of their corruption?
  191. 01[03/29/13 00:04:39] <@Bela> I think it's possible to for something like that to happen at the end, but it doesn't mean that it can't be undercut or responded to
  192. [03/29/13 00:04:50] <@machomuu> Well, for why they aren't corrupt. After all, villains don't generally see themselves as villains; in their eyes, they're usually the good guys.
  193. 01[03/29/13 00:05:02] <@Bela> sometimes they are
  194. 01[03/29/13 00:05:18] <@Bela> sometimes people are amoral individuals who totally know what they're doing is unpopular
  195. 01[03/29/13 00:05:38] <@Bela> after all why would they feel the need to bribe or otherwise subvert the will of the people
  196. 01[03/29/13 00:05:52] <@Bela> however that would be represented in the pokemon universe :p
  197. 01[03/29/13 00:06:16] <@Bela> I imagine something close to that would be how gym leaders, elite four members, and the champion come to be
  198. [03/29/13 00:06:50] <@machomuu> Well, they could easily change the rules for pokemon training matches, such as making people pay some of what they gain from winning and sending it to the Pokemon League as a sort of tax measure
  199. 01[03/29/13 00:06:53] <@Bela> I think they're a close proxy to congressional representatives in the sense that they are individuals who would have some kind of clout in their area
  200. 01[03/29/13 00:07:31] <@Bela> we don't have to make it be a complete translation of real-world issues
  201. [03/29/13 00:08:06] <@machomuu> True, but I think that taxing would be an easy way to generate money
  202. 01[03/29/13 00:08:26] <@Bela> do you mean in real life or in the pokemon universe lol ;p
  203. [03/29/13 00:08:36] <@machomuu> In Pokemon.
  204. 01[03/29/13 00:08:44] <@Bela> ok
  205. 01[03/29/13 00:09:17] <@Bela> I'm not sure how that would be done in a game, or if it would just be something that's talked about
  206. [03/29/13 00:09:31] <@Perri> Just like sending money to Mom in GSC
  207. [03/29/13 00:09:38] <@Perri> except you don't get it back. XD
  208. 01[03/29/13 00:09:40] <@Bela> something I would want to focus on is pokemon battles
  209. [03/29/13 00:09:51] <@machomuu> It doesn't need to be said, although it could, much in the way that PMD does it.
  210. [03/29/13 00:10:06] <@machomuu> *It doesn't need to be said in battle
  211. [03/29/13 00:10:11] <@machomuu> What about the battles, Bela?
  212. 01[03/29/13 00:10:34] <@Bela> well I'm thinking about how that could parallel in real life how people have discussions
  213. 01[03/29/13 00:10:48] <@Bela> and maybe I'm alone in experiencing this, but how there is this culture of silence in discussing political issues
  214. 01[03/29/13 00:10:57] <@Bela> like it's a culture of political apathy
  215. [03/29/13 00:11:07] <@Perri> When you add so much realism to the story, you have to think about the repercussions. What's to stop these corrupt executives from just aiming a gun at you if you lose the battle?
  216. 01[03/29/13 00:11:09] <@Bela> people who don't want to talk about issues because it's politics and politics is icky
  217. 01[03/29/13 00:11:22] <@Bela> the way I would parallel that is
  218. 01[03/29/13 00:11:27] <@Bela> people who are afraid to battle
  219. 01[03/29/13 00:11:33] <@Bela> or are otherwise dissauded from battling
  220. 01[03/29/13 00:11:44] <@Bela> now why
  221. 01[03/29/13 00:11:55] <@Bela> if the pokemon league's positions are challenged by battles
  222. 01[03/29/13 00:11:58] <@Bela> and the league is corrupt
  223. [03/29/13 00:12:03] <@machomuu> Well, battling is for fun and recreation, generally people don't talk about politics because they find it to be boring
  224. 01[03/29/13 00:12:06] <@Bela> it would be in its interest to keep trainers from challenging them
  225. 01[03/29/13 00:12:53] <@Bela> I do get that it doesn't translate in that sense machomuu, but I'm thinking of it as a way to twist that
  226. 01[03/29/13 00:13:29] <@Bela> perhaps the pokemon league, or the villains in the form of certain corporations, have found a way to dissuade trainers from fighting gyms or from battling
  227. [03/29/13 00:13:52] <@machomuu> Wouldn't that be bad for the Pokemon League, though?
  228. 01[03/29/13 00:14:00] <@Bela> kinda like in Black and White, you have plasma's 'release your pokemon' propaganda, only this is "don't fight"
  229. [03/29/13 00:14:01] <@Perri> And bad for the game, if no one's battling
  230. 01[03/29/13 00:14:18] <@Bela> well but what I'm saying is that this would be an initiative that hasn't taken hold
  231. [03/29/13 00:14:18] <@Perri> Unless there's people who aren't listening and decided to battle anyway
  232. [03/29/13 00:14:25] <@Perri> Ahh
  233. 01[03/29/13 00:14:29] <@Bela> so people still do battle
  234. 01[03/29/13 00:14:32] <@Bela> but some of them talk about this
  235. 01[03/29/13 00:14:37] <@Bela> maybe
  236. 01[03/29/13 00:14:39] <@Bela> lol
  237. [03/29/13 00:14:52] <@machomuu> But why would they want people to stop them from doing it at all?
  238. [03/29/13 00:15:05] <@machomuu> *to stop doing it at all
  239. 01[03/29/13 00:15:39] <@Bela> the reason for that is
  240. 01[03/29/13 00:16:01] <@Bela> if the league is in control of a group of powerful people, and they want to hold onto that power
  241. 01[03/29/13 00:16:21] <@Bela> one way to do that is to somehow convince trainers that fighting is to be avoided
  242. 01[03/29/13 00:16:32] <@Bela> that way they wouldn't fight against them
  243. 01[03/29/13 00:16:36] <@Bela> :)
  244. 01[03/29/13 00:16:55] <@Bela> I can see the propagandist ads already
  245. 01[03/29/13 00:17:08] <@Bela> "Treat your Pokemon with love and respect--Stop fighting with them!"
  246. [03/29/13 00:19:17] <@Perri> Machomuu, did you have any ideas for a story? We've done so much talking we haven't really let you put forth any ideas ^^'
  247. 01[03/29/13 00:19:59] <@Bela> yeah I'd love to hear from you macho :)
  248. [03/29/13 00:20:45] <@machomuu> Well, there was an idea I had for a hack that I never followed through on, but it's far too specific and obtuse to use for a community hack.
  249. [03/29/13 00:22:15] <@machomuu> Actually, I do have something else to question, and we kind of already touched on this.
  250. [03/29/13 00:22:39] <@machomuu> What tone do you think we should have for this?
  251. [03/29/13 00:23:46] <@Perri> It depends on whatever we decide on for a story. Bela's, for example, should be treated seriously in my opinion
  252. [03/29/13 00:23:58] <@Perri> (not that there couldnt' be moments of humor of course)
  253. 01[03/29/13 00:24:02] <@Bela> I think the idea I had could oscillate between serious and non-serious
  254. 01[03/29/13 00:24:06] <@Bela> yeah ;p
  255. [03/29/13 00:24:13] <@machomuu> Well since it's such a widespread hack in terms of who's developing it and who's playing it, we have to consider the target audience for this hack...or rather, who we don't want to alienate.
  256. 01[03/29/13 00:24:30] <@Bela> hm
  257. 01[03/29/13 00:24:39] <@Bela> I'm not sure about that
  258. 01[03/29/13 00:24:54] <@Bela> the advantage we have over an official production
  259. [03/29/13 00:24:59] <@Perri> I don't think we should shy away from deeper or darker themes - we're not kids after all
  260. [03/29/13 00:25:34] <@Perri> but deciding the line and how to implement said themes if we choose to do so is something to keep in mind
  261. 01[03/29/13 00:25:35] <@Bela> is that we don't really have a creative pressure that keeps us from writing about certain subjects
  262. 01[03/29/13 00:25:52] <@Bela> not in the same sense that a game company would have to consider
  263. 01[03/29/13 00:27:11] <@Bela> like, we could conceivably have a character who says "fuck," something that would never happen in a real Pokemon game
  264. 01[03/29/13 00:27:25] <@Bela> I'm not saying we should or anything
  265. [03/29/13 00:29:59] <@Perri> Any twelve year old can fill their hack with filthy language - it's how it's used, not that it's used at all. But I think we all know that here XD
  266. 01[03/29/13 00:30:22] <@Bela> yeah, but that's what I mean
  267. 01[03/29/13 00:30:41] <@Bela> we can address content that a gaming company that wants to play it "safe" would never do
  268. [03/29/13 00:30:53] <@Perri> Yeah :)
  269. [03/29/13 00:31:24] <@Perri> hmm...I feel like we should discuss some alternate story concepts - not that yours isn't good, Bela XD but I still don't think I'm 100% sold on it yet and would like to hear other concepts
  270. [03/29/13 00:33:31] <@Perri> I just wish I had a more developed concept to share, rather than simply going "here's a theme with few details"
  271. 01[03/29/13 00:34:03] <@Bela> yeah
  272. 01[03/29/13 00:34:09] <@Bela> I'm not really married to my story
  273. 01[03/29/13 00:34:18] <@Bela> just dating ;P
  274.  
  275. [03/29/13 00:36:02] <@Perri> Writing intelligently about politics is something I'm REALLY not that good at personally, which is why I'm hesitant ^^' of course I'm willing to give it my best shot if we do decide on that, but exploring a bit more would be beneficial for all of us - not just because it might lead to an entirely different idea; but it could serve to help strengthen the first one
  276. [03/29/13 00:39:27] <@Perri> my first hack, for all the things it did terribly, did have some concepts I think might be interesting. The player themselves was put in the uncomfortable position of making moral choices that would either open up or shut off entire plot threads and influence how certain NPCs would view you
  277. 01[03/29/13 00:40:22] <@Bela> it's an interesting idea but it might be hard to script for
  278. 01[03/29/13 00:40:42] <@Bela> and not to mention would use up flags/vars pretty fast
  279. [03/29/13 00:40:48] <@machomuu> I'm all for choices, but it'd be terrible for the scripters
  280. [03/29/13 00:41:06] <@Perri> Yeah, and I never did get very far with the whole scripting aspect before I set the project aside for just being terrible
  281. [03/29/13 00:41:16] <@machomuu> Oh, don't worry, there are easy ways to bypass the flag issue
  282. 01[03/29/13 00:41:17] <@Bela> but one thing I really wouldn't like about it is
  283. 01[03/29/13 00:41:27] <@Bela> all the different plot threads
  284. 01[03/29/13 00:41:33] <@Bela> that you wouldn't get to explore
  285. 01[03/29/13 00:41:42] <@Bela> I get that it would add some kind of replay value
  286. 01[03/29/13 00:41:47] <@Bela> but would it really be necessary
  287. [03/29/13 00:42:16] <@machomuu> No, but that's really what makes moral decisions so personal.
  288. 01[03/29/13 00:42:29] <@Bela> and yeah machomuu, you could just save flags for certain subsets of vars or something
  289. 01[03/29/13 00:42:35] <@Bela> close off areas
  290. 01[03/29/13 00:42:37] <@Bela> etc
  291. 01[03/29/13 00:42:55] <@Bela> it wouldn't necessarily be hard to manage
  292. [03/29/13 00:44:09] <@Perri> Pokemon games have always been fairly black and white (no pun intended) and I always thought it would be interesting to explore this, but branching paths might not be the best way to in retrospect ^^'
  293. 01[03/29/13 00:45:39] <@Bela> they usually are pretty linear
  294. [03/29/13 00:46:27] <@machomuu> Linear isn't necessarily bad, it really depends on how we go about telling the story...and the subject matter.
  295.  
  296.  
  297.  
  298. [03/29/13 01:04:32] <@machomuu> So you guys are in favor of HMs as opposed to HM items and HM Natural Abilities?
  299. [03/29/13 01:05:33] <@Perri> I do hate having to carry a HM slave around
  300. 01[03/29/13 01:06:03] <@Bela> I think you resolve that issue by 1) making HMs overwritable and 2) making the TMs reusable
  301. [03/29/13 01:06:04] <@machomuu> As do I
  302. 01[03/29/13 01:06:30] <@Bela> there no longer exists a compelling reason to make HMs unforgettable
  303. [03/29/13 01:06:34] <@Perri> though to be fair, I think everyone does. XD and yeah, if HMs are easily overwritten than I have no issues with leaving them the same otherwise
  304. 01[03/29/13 01:06:46] <@Bela> really only in gen 1 was it understandable
  305. 01[03/29/13 01:06:59] <@Bela> or any gen where the HMs could be put into the PC
  306. [03/29/13 01:07:03] <@machomuu> I'm personally in favor of the the HM Natural Abilities that Darthatron proposed in the thread
  307. [03/29/13 01:07:30] <@machomuu> But if we made them required, I'm all for rewritable
  308. 01[03/29/13 01:07:43] <@Bela> what do you mean by required
  309. 01[03/29/13 01:08:57] <@Bela> really, what I proposed changes the paradigm in such a way that HM slaves no longer exist
  310. 01[03/29/13 01:09:07] <@Bela> because it's no longer a burden to have HM moves
  311. 01[03/29/13 01:09:32] <@Bela> as they can be removed by learning other moves
  312. 01[03/29/13 01:10:23] <@Bela> and really, the mediocre HM moves can just be tweaked so that they're somewhat useful
  313. 01[03/29/13 01:10:34] <@Bela> which is like, only two moves that I can think of
  314. 01[03/29/13 01:10:44] <@Bela> flash and rock smash
  315. [03/29/13 01:12:03] <@machomuu> "I've always had this idea for them which basically entails reading from the Learn-able HM section. If the Pokemon can normally learn the HM, then it would be able to use it naturally in the overworld. This way, they can be treated as normal moves: deletable. But all water pokemon can naturally use Surf, for example."
  316. [03/29/13 01:12:31] <@machomuu> A quote from Darthatron. I think that way would be the most convinient.
  317. [03/29/13 01:12:55] <@Perri> Sorry I haven't said a whole lot, I've been really tired all evening ^^'
  318. 01[03/29/13 01:13:24] <@Bela> I think that would be hard to implement
  319. 01[03/29/13 01:13:40] <@Bela> and also would that mean that just any water pokemon could surf whenever
  320. 01[03/29/13 01:14:04] <@Bela> if so then you have a binary choice on water pokemon and water
  321. [03/29/13 01:14:08] <@machomuu> Ah, I actually have another quote for that
  322. 01[03/29/13 01:14:24] <@Bela> either water can't be an effective barrier, or water pokemon are rare or only accessible at some later point
  323. [03/29/13 01:14:24] <@machomuu> "It would be possible to still require badges or something. Say a gym leader taught you how to climb a waterfall using your Pokemon after you beat him?"
  324. [03/29/13 01:15:27] <@machomuu> It's possible that they still be taught the abilities by people, that way you can control when you want to be able to allow the player to use the ability
  325. 01[03/29/13 01:15:59] <@Bela> it would be a little confusing, I think
  326. 01[03/29/13 01:16:13] <@Bela> I get it though
  327. 01[03/29/13 01:16:23] <@Bela> it just might be a little strange to people playing
  328. 01[03/29/13 01:16:37] <@Bela> so water pokemon can surf without the move
  329. 01[03/29/13 01:17:05] <@Bela> or you can use the move and do it normally
  330. 01[03/29/13 01:17:18] <@Bela> there was an idea to make the HMs like objects you use
  331. 01[03/29/13 01:17:21] <@Bela> that sounds neat
  332. [03/29/13 01:17:30] <@machomuu> Yeah
  333. [03/29/13 01:17:44] <@machomuu> I think either is okay, really.
  334. 01[03/29/13 01:17:46] <@Bela> like a hammer for rock smash, or a sword for cut
  335. [03/29/13 01:18:16] <@Perri> I'm going to get some sleep ^^' I'll stay in the room to continue logging the conversation, and I'll certainly be back tomorrow for the "official" meeting :)
  336. [03/29/13 01:18:42] <@machomuu> I say we adjourn, actually.
  337. [03/29/13 01:18:57] <@machomuu> Maybe get some input from the thread in the meantime.
  338. [03/29/13 01:19:18] <@Perri> Yeah ^^' We've at least gotten some ideas into the air, which is good
  339. 01[03/29/13 01:19:24] <@Bela> okay, goodnight guys
  340. [03/29/13 01:19:34] <@Perri> Hopefully tomorrow we can at least decide on a setting so the spriters can have an idea
  341. [03/29/13 01:19:41] <@Perri> Night! :)
  342. 01[03/29/13 01:19:41] <@Bela> and yeah, I think this was great
  343. 01[03/29/13 01:19:43] <@Bela> night :D
  344. [03/29/13 01:19:55] <@machomuu> That'd be great!
  345. [03/29/13 01:20:09] <@machomuu> Night, you guys
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