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Forest: Carnism and it's Uncomfortable Naming

JaysonSunshine May 1st, 2018 (edited) 273 Never
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  1. 4:20:02 PM@Raven`XI grilled bratwurst and deer burgers then hit it all with some sweet baby rays bbq sauce.
  2. 4:20:34 PM@Raven`XIt's very tasty though.
  3. 4:21:54 PM+GKhandid you cut the deer meat with anything else?
  4. 4:23:09 PM+GKhanya, it is i, nerd
  5. 4:24:35 PM+GKhanya now it is summer
  6. 4:24:55 PM@Raven`XIt was a beautiful day today. Did a 5.4 mile walk.
  7. 4:25:46 PM+LowInformationVoterRaven`X: Please become a vegetarian..
  8. 4:25:51 PM@Raven`XNo.
  9. 4:25:57 PM+LowInformationVoterIt will reduce your risk of heart disease and various cancers.
  10. 4:26:10 PM@Raven`XSo will not smoking cigs.
  11. 4:26:11 PM+LowInformationVoterAs well as being consistent with sustainable usage of water and arable land.
  12. 4:26:18 PM@Raven`XI already did that though.
  13. 4:26:23 PM+LowInformationVoterCorrect. You should not be smoking cigarettes.
  14. 4:26:41 PM@Raven`XI quit about seven years ago.
  15. 4:26:57 PM+chumpchangenicotine - nemesis
  16. 4:27:00 PM+LowInformationVoterNow it's time to quit eating animals.
  17. 4:27:55 PM@Raven`XI had a sausage and cheese omelette for breakfast.
  18. 4:27:57 PM@Raven`XYum.
  19. 4:28:17 PM@Raven`XTossed in some bacon bits too.
  20. 4:28:21 PM Ignoring Raven`X!*@*
  21. 4:29:55 PM+LowInformationVoterYou're not ready to expand your sphere of empathy to beings that look too different than you.
  22. 4:32:40 PM← Jarod has quit (Ping timeout)
  23. 4:33:00 PM→ Jarod has joined
  24. 4:33:04 PMⓘ Mabus set mode +v Jarod
  25. 4:33:46 PM+LowInformationVoterI'm not yet ready to be vegan.
  26. 4:33:52 PM+LowInformationVoterEven though it is ethically correct to be vegan.
  27. 4:37:42 PM+LowInformationVoterI have reduced my consumption of animal products, though. For example, I bought a vegan backpack.
  28. 4:37:52 PM← WowRly has left  
  29. 4:37:53 PM+LowInformationVoterI intentionally* bought
  30. 4:38:03 PM+LowInformationVoterIntentionally is incredibly important in deontological ethics
  31. 4:39:59 PM@lauchlinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=YYXQzlKXzpk
  32. 4:40:24 PM← pheno has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)
  33. 4:40:57 PM+LowInformationVoterThat doesn't seem interesting.
  34. 4:41:03 PMⓘ Debates set mode +l 60
  35. 4:42:38 PM@lauchlinits funny
  36. 4:43:52 PM+LowInformationVoterBut they don't look like me.
  37. 4:44:01 PM+LowInformationVoterWhy *wouldn't* I want to cook them over an open flame.
  38. 4:44:34 PM← Banquo has quit (Quit:)
  39. 4:46:36 PM@lauchlina person i know fed my squid last week :( was gross
  40. 4:47:00 PM+LowInformationVoterYou have a squid?
  41. 4:48:27 PM+LowInformationVoterIt sounds like they definitely should have ask for permission first.
  42. 4:48:34 PM@lauchlinerr no
  43. 4:48:37 PM@lauchlinfed me squid
  44. 4:48:48 PM@lauchlinafter i made it clear to her you dont eat cephalaopds
  45. 4:49:03 PM→ Forest` has joined
  46. 4:49:03 PMⓘ ChanServ set mode +o Forest`
  47. 4:49:12 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's incredibly unethical to eat cephalopods.
  48. 4:49:13 PM@Forest`hello
  49. 4:49:27 PM+LowInformationVoterYour friend violating your explicit consent is very significant.
  50. 4:49:37 PM+LowInformationVoterIf a 'friend' did that to me, I might stop being their friend.
  51. 4:50:07 PM+LowInformationVoterThe action says, "My emotional rush of doing things I like, and pushing you secretly past your boundaries, is way more important to me than your, you know, self-ownership."
  52. 4:50:14 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd that's incompatible with friendship.
  53. 4:50:19 PM@Forest`hi Raven`X
  54. 4:50:59 PM+LowInformationVoterA lot of carnists, who are less empathetic and educated, on average, than vegetarians and vegans, *know* with their monkey brain that their default carnism is right and it will be good for you to be more like them.
  55. 4:51:11 PM+LowInformationVoterMany carnists secretly desire everybody in the universe to be little clones of themselves.
  56. 4:51:17 PM+LowInformationVoterThat decreased empathy'll get ya!
  57. 4:51:46 PM@Forest`carnivore, not "carnist"
  58. 4:51:51 PM+LowInformationVoterCarnist.
  59. 4:52:00 PM+LowInformationVoterhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
  60. 4:52:07 PM+LowInformationVoterCarnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat.[n 1] Carnism is presented as a dominant belief system supported by a variety of defense mechanisms and mostly unchallenged assumptions.[1][2][3][4] The term carnism was coined by social psychologist and vegan activist Melanie Joy in 2001 and popularized by her book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows (2009).[5][6][7]
  61. 4:52:10 PM@Forest`silly made up word
  62. 4:52:17 PM+LowInformationVoterAll words are made up, actually.
  63. 4:52:23 PM+LowInformationVoterFunny, in'nit.
  64. 4:52:36 PM+LowInformationVoterWait, did you mean 'made up' since you awoke from non-existence?
  65. 4:52:38 PM@Forest`making up a perjorative isn't funny, its pitiful
  66. 4:52:51 PM+LowInformationVoterYep,  your particular waking up from non-existence was a major epoch in sociolinguistics -- correct.
  67. 4:53:01 PM+LowInformationVoterYou feel that carnism is a pejorative.
  68. 4:53:12 PM+LowInformationVoterAre you clear on the definition of pejorative?
  69. 4:53:25 PM+LowInformationVoterThe reason I ask is because you're signaling you are not clear on the definition of pejorative.
  70. 4:53:45 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Dominant ideologies are often unnamed by their members.
  71. 4:53:50 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's related to the concept of privilege.
  72. 4:54:10 PM+LowInformationVoterThe dominant ideology just... is. It's the Natural and Eternal social fabric that we've all existed in since Forever.
  73. 4:54:12 PM+LowInformationVoterExcept, it isn't.
  74. 4:54:16 PM+LowInformationVoterIt's just one way of being.
  75. 4:54:37 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd it is helpful to name things, because that puts boundaries around them and draws our explicit attention to the alternatives.
  76. 4:54:53 PM+LowInformationVoterCarnism as a word is composed of two parts: the prefix carn- and the suffic -ism.
  77. 4:55:02 PM+LowInformationVoterNow, -ism as a suffix means 'an ideology or way of being'.
  78. 4:55:19 PM+LowInformationVoterAnd carn- stems from Latin and means 'flesh', with synonyms in 'animal', or 'sensual', or 'mundane'.
  79. 4:55:23 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is not a pejorative, fren.
  80. 4:55:30 PM@Forest`I can see what it is.
  81. 4:55:43 PM+LowInformationVoterYes -- people who are part of the dominant unnamed ideology do not even like it being named.
  82. 4:56:00 PM+LowInformationVoterTo name a thing rips it from the Undiscussed Position of Perfect Sensability.
  83. 4:56:13 PM+LowInformationVoterWhen you start discussing things, you might begin to see that there are more aspects of it that you dislike.
  84. 4:56:25 PM@Forest`i haven't eaten a mammal in 40 years, but i'm also not one of those strident activist who have to find ways to malign those who do choose to eat animals
  85. 4:56:29 PM+LowInformationVoterFor example, carnism is *the* primary contributor to climate change -- a threat to human civilization.
  86. 4:56:39 PM+LowInformationVoterWe are literally destroying our society by continuing to use animals as we are.
  87. 4:56:51 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Strident is a pejorative.
  88. 4:56:53 PM+LowInformationVoterDo you see that.
  89. 4:56:59 PM@Forest`Raven`X occasionall. But no celphalapods.
  90. 4:57:03 PM+LowInformationVoterActivist is a pejorative in this context, too.
  91. 4:57:04 PM@Forest`LowInformationVoter yes it is.
  92. 4:57:15 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: So, you're actually the only one guilty of using a pejorative in this conversation.
  93. 4:57:19 PM+LowInformationVoterInteresting!
  94. 4:57:30 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: What I am doing is 'sociology'.
  95. 4:57:31 PM@Forest`LowInformationVoter i fully acknowledge i'm usually perjoratives. You are the one in denial.
  96. 4:57:52 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: I already resolved that claim.
  97. 4:58:04 PM+LowInformationVoterIf you feel you can criticize my prefix/suffix analysis, feel free.
  98. 4:58:14 PM+LowInformationVoterUntil you do, according to the Laws of Reason, my position is winning.
  99. 4:58:16 PM@Forest`Raven`X right. i have eaten it in the past, but no more.
  100. 4:58:37 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Thank you for not participating in the ideology of killing animals for food.
  101. 4:58:49 PM+LowInformationVoterSince it's unnecessary for many, unethical, and inefficient.
  102. 4:59:23 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Have you ever watched a video of a human being dismembered?
  103. 4:59:27 PM+LowInformationVoterI have.
  104. 4:59:34 PM+LowInformationVoterI can provide a link, if you're interested.
  105. 4:59:43 PM@Forest`Raven`X its complicated
  106. 4:59:52 PM+LowInformationVoterInterestingly, the humans sounds upon being dismembered are quite similar to the sounds of a non-human tetrapod being dismembered.
  107. 5:00:28 PM@Forest`i'm not interested in eating any mammals, as i already said. too much like canabalism to me.
  108. 5:00:42 PM+LowInformationVoterYou deserve recognition for that. :)
  109. 5:00:50 PM+LowInformationVoterYou are among an elite group of humans.
  110. 5:00:59 PM+LowInformationVoterOnly about 5% of Americans are vegetarians.
  111. 5:01:08 PM@Forest`i don't need recognition, and i'd rather stop this discourse. i'm not interested in anyone who watches videos of humans being dismembered.
  112. 5:01:35 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: I am a Buddhist.
  113. 5:01:47 PM+LowInformationVoterOne of the three poisons is delusion. Part of being alive is dying.
  114. 5:02:02 PM+LowInformationVoterI intentionally consume, sometimes, videos of humans being killed because I do not run from reality.
  115. 5:02:17 PM+LowInformationVoterAlso, humans sometimes have malice and kill one another.
  116. 5:02:28 PM+LowInformationVoterI have found it quite helpful for me to better understand human nature to see such acts.
  117. 5:02:52 PM+LowInformationVoterFor example, when I consumed the video of the most recent gas attack in Syria, it helped me see a deep truth in political disagreement.
  118. 5:03:36 PM+LowInformationVoterTo wit, if our society cannot figure out how to agree on a common set of facts, and have constraints on our political communications, not only is it possible, but it is likely inevitable that we'll eventually use poison gases on one another.
  119. 5:03:45 PM+LowInformationVoterThis helped me take much more seriously the act of political dialogue.
  120. 5:04:17 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: If you think this practice radical, I can assure you true Buddhism is much, much, much more extreme.
  121. 5:04:24 PM+LowInformationVoterIn core Buddhist teachings, there are no humans to be dismembered.
  122. 5:04:28 PM+LowInformationVoterThere is no me to be offended.
  123. 5:04:44 PM+LowInformationVoterThere is also no life, and no death.
  124. 5:05:07 PM+LowInformationVoterBuddhism is an extreme metaphysical belief system in it's monastic experience.
  125. 5:05:46 PM+LowInformationVoterThe Vinaya is a group of Buddhist text written specifically for those monks who achieve high levels of non-self.
  126. 5:06:02 PM+LowInformationVoterThe goal of the Vinaya is to encourage such monks to remain compassionate towards those beings who still exist in a world of self.
  127. 5:06:14 PM+LowInformationVoterhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinaya
  128. 5:07:45 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Equanimity is one of the Four Sublime Attitudes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara.
  129. 5:08:22 PM+LowInformationVoterEquanimity, in its full expression, means not being destabilized in the slightest by any event, including the dismembering of humans by other humans.
  130. 5:08:36 PM* Forest` twiddles his thumbs
  131. 5:08:54 PM+LowInformationVoterThe Tibetans have a meditative practice of intentionally seeking out and sitting with intense, destabilizing thoughts so as to more rapidly make progress.
  132. 5:09:38 PM+LowInformationVoterIn Theravada practice, there are no humans being dismembered -- they're just thoughts, like 'I am stressed at work', or 'This person in chat annoys me'.
  133. 5:09:54 PM+LowInformationVoterIn core Buddhist metaphysics, you are not your thoughts.
  134. 5:10:16 PM→ ForexTrader has joined
  135. 5:10:26 PMⓘ Mabus set mode +v ForexTrader
  136. 5:10:27 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: Humans are not particularly more valuable than non-humans.
  137. 5:10:45 PM+LowInformationVoterRaven`X and others can discuss burning parts of non-humans on an open flame before throwing those pieces into their throat.
  138. 5:10:47 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is normal.
  139. 5:11:02 PM+LowInformationVoterMe discussing that I sometimes consume videos of humans being dismembered causes in you a feeling of disgust.
  140. 5:11:08 PM+LowInformationVoterThis is a great thing upon which to meditate.
  141. 5:11:17 PM+TonySnarkChrist
  142. 5:11:22 PM+TonySnarkWill someone shut him up?
  143. 5:11:41 PM+LowInformationVoterEverybody in this channel who eats animals is doing a much more unethical practice on the daily than those humans who dismembered that other human.
  144. 5:11:47 PM+LowInformationVoterTonySnark: You have that power.
  145. 5:11:55 PM+LowInformationVoterYou own yourself.
  146. 5:12:00 PM+TonySnarkNo I don't
  147. 5:12:06 PM+LowInformationVoterYou don't own yourself?
  148. 5:12:07 PM+TonySnarkYes, but that's not shutting you up
  149. 5:12:09 PM@Forest`you will see no mention of "disgust" in my statement: @Forest`> i don't need recognition, and i'd rather stop this discourse. i'm not interested in anyone who watches videos of humans being dismembered.
  150. 5:12:18 PM+TonySnarkLook at your first statement
  151. 5:12:23 PM+TonySnarkThat is what I replied to first
  152. 5:12:25 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: How does the imagery of humans being dismembered, crying out, make you feel?
  153. 5:12:34 PM+TonySnarkSimple conept, a "genius" like you should grasp
  154. 5:12:37 PM+LowInformationVoterTonySnark: You are responsible for your sensory perceptions.
  155. 5:12:38 PM@Forest`and i AM a buddhist so your cut and paste charade is not fooling me.
  156. 5:12:49 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: I have not cut and paste anything other than obvious sanctions.
  157. 5:12:53 PM+LowInformationVoterYou have misperceived.
  158. 5:12:59 PM+LowInformationVotercitations*
  159. 5:13:09 PM+TonySnarkYet ignoring you doesn't stop you from polluting the channel with your gigaton of inanity
  160. 5:13:26 PM+LowInformationVoterForest`: By labeling that practice as carnism, we are better able to see how eating a hamburger is essentially the same as cutting a human's arms off.
  161. 5:13:42 PM+LowInformationVoterTonySnark: You don't have a right to avoiding 'polluted channels'.
  162. 5:13:53 PM+LowInformationVoterYou ave a right to subscribe or not subscribe.
  163. 5:13:56 PMⓘ Forest` set mode -v LowInformationVoter
  164. 5:14:09 PM+TonySnarkDid I claim such? No. I just think you're a preachy twat.
  165. 5:14:30 PM Ignoring TonySnark!*@*
  166. 5:15:10 PMLowInformationVoterForest`: This was a wrong action.
  167. 5:15:24 PMLowInformationVoterI can cause no discomfort in you or anybody else.
  168. 5:15:28 PM@Forest`yeah apparently
  169. 5:15:40 PMLowInformationVoterForest`: What will happen if you do not devoice me?
  170. 5:15:47 PMLowInformationVoterCan you articulate those thoughts and feelings?
  171. 5:15:49 PMⓘ Forest` set mode +b *!*@50-255-225-132-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net
  172. 5:16:02 PM× You have been kicked by Forest` (Forest`)
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