(2:39:39 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: at this point lets just take a step back and re assess our goals
(2:39:54 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 1) get the experimental doctrines rules hammered out to a T and on the wiki
(2:39:59 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: for you and anyone else in the future
(2:40:06 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 2) get canes picked up
(2:40:18 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 3) work on sleips
(2:41:08 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: and table the fitting team thing for now
(2:41:13 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: other than the subforum
(2:43:30 PM) Nour Samy: mhm
(4:15:22 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: what other questions you have about experimental doctrines
(4:15:28 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 1) How exactly can you test an experimental doctrine if it can't be taken on deployments or stratops?
(4:15:47 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: [4:14:33 PM] panicbutton: 2) The SRP thing was fuzzy and caused problems and needs to be put down on paper
[4:15:01 PM] panicbutton: 3) Is there any assistance programs from the alliance to help with the cost of an experimental doctrine
(4:15:47 PM) Nour Samy: 50% srp if approved from experimentation
(4:16:20 PM) Nour Samy: Alliance aid that might be tricky to do. How about rules for seeding it would be 10% mark up instead of 25% ?
(4:16:36 PM) Nour Samy: or 5% even
(4:16:38 PM) Nour Samy: no jewing
(4:17:18 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: [4:16:25 PM] panicbutton: whats the time frame estimate on one being experimental
[4:16:34 PM] panicbutton: who decides when its not anymore?
[4:16:50 PM] panicbutton: is it 100% hand out or can you sell them?
(4:17:31 PM) Nour Samy: Who's panic button ?
(4:17:34 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: me
(4:17:56 PM) Nour Samy: Instead of timeframe I suppose a set number of engagments
(4:18:42 PM) Nour Samy: Hand out is extremely challenging, draining and demanding
(4:19:06 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: if you come up with more questions let me know
(4:19:10 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: ill be thinking on it as well
(4:19:52 PM) Nour Samy: Requirments to get a doctrine approved for experimentation.
(4:30:11 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C7KwIaCPL8eFjTEGopKIgqGn_Mv5EMeX63pfu6JaqoA/edit?usp=sharing
(4:32:31 PM) Nour Samy: looks good.
(5:05:14 PM) Nour Samy: Honest thoughts, my hurricane or the gsf one ?
(5:05:39 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 6 of one half a dozen of the other
(5:05:43 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: yours is very slightly better
(5:05:57 PM) Nour Samy: (12:04:54 AM) Rofl Stomp: 6 of one half a dozen of the other
(5:05:57 PM) Nour Samy: What
(5:06:06 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: its an expression
(5:06:12 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: means either one is basically the same thing
(5:06:20 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 6 of one thing
(5:06:24 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: half a dozen of antoher thing
(5:06:26 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: whats half a dozen?
(5:06:27 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 6
(5:06:29 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: same thing
(5:07:06 PM) Nour Samy: Well, that's not quite true though
(5:07:32 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: continue
(5:09:24 PM) Nour Samy: The resist profile of mine is over all better, ehp is great and all for catching reps, but looking at OOS which we fight most often, and most people shoot em against shield ships, the way the gsf tengu is laid out is just :rip: waiting to happen, which does a lot
(5:09:36 PM) Nour Samy: err hurricane*
(5:10:03 PM) Nour Samy: not to mention the increased alpha/dps is a lot more beneficial over the tiny bit extra range. Tracking has never proved to be an issue with the canes either
(5:10:53 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: their pretty close to the same though
(5:11:03 PM) Nour Samy: One second
(5:14:11 PM) Nour Samy: when getting shot at by navy multi, the goon cane has 67.7k ehp with max links
(5:14:20 PM) Nour Samy: my cane has 76.1k ehp
(5:14:46 PM) Nour Samy: Thing is though, that since mine is more balanced across the board, we don't have to worry about one specific gap being targeted down
(5:14:54 PM) Nour Samy: So we're over all just simply stronger
(5:16:18 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: you tank is better
(5:16:28 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i'd take their extra tracking enhancer over 300 more alpha
(5:16:47 PM) Nour Samy: Well again, we don't really need it, tracking has never proved to be an issue
(5:16:56 PM) Nour Samy: perfectly hitting burning dictors on gates when decloacking
(5:16:59 PM) Nour Samy: blaping ceptors and shit
(5:17:12 PM) Nour Samy: So infact the extra cycle rate and alpha is a lot more useful
(5:18:48 PM) Nour Samy: cane with emp has 0.0286 tracking while the railgus with antimatter had 0.0256
(5:18:55 PM) Nour Samy: So we actually have better tracking than T3 railguns
(5:19:00 PM) Nour Samy: with 1 tracking enhancer
(5:19:43 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: half a second cycle time and 200 alpha versus an extra 1+6 and .003 radians/sec tracking
(5:19:54 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: trivial at best
(5:20:05 PM) Nour Samy: Yes, but add up the dps
(5:20:20 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: arent you the one who says dont mix the 2
(5:20:24 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: either alpha or dps
(5:20:26 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: dont worry about both
(5:20:35 PM) Nour Samy: Gun systems that utalize either
(5:20:39 PM) Nour Samy: This is still alpha
(5:21:09 PM) Nour Samy: 541 gun dps vs 474 gun dps with the 1 extra gyro
(5:21:11 PM) Nour Samy: That's quite a lot
(5:21:19 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: these arent designed around dps
(5:21:24 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: their designed around alpha and gtfo
(5:21:27 PM) Nour Samy: for a tiny increase in range and tracking
(5:21:39 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: and tbh their point blank basically with EMP
(5:21:46 PM) Nour Samy: again you're missing what i'm trying to say
(5:21:51 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: ok
(5:21:56 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: explain it to me
(5:23:12 PM) Nour Samy: The extra gyro means we cycle over all faster, with more hitting power, which means more alpha delivered in less time over all, which greater benefits our ability to "Alpha and gtfo". Much more so than a trivial increase in range and tracking
(5:23:27 PM) Nour Samy: 300 alpha per ship and nearly 70 dps is quite a lot
(5:23:34 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: half a second cycle time
(5:23:36 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: 200 alpha
(5:23:42 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: less with any decent range
(5:23:55 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: im not saying either way is right
(5:24:00 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: the situation dictates that
(5:24:10 PM) Nour Samy: 274 actually
(5:24:10 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: what im trying to say is its a trivial difference
(5:24:27 PM) Nour Samy: Its not
(5:24:29 PM) Nour Samy: its 70 dps
(5:24:44 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: worth taking into consideration but not worth holding up the release of a doctrine on
(5:24:53 PM) Nour Samy: taking that third gyro takes away a lot of its dps
(5:25:02 PM) Nour Samy: 3 gyros its a high alpha high dps ship
(5:25:51 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: with the stacking penalty you'd be getting more benefit out of a 2nd TE rather than a 3rd gyro
(5:26:19 PM) Nour Samy: Again, you're missing the point, The increase from the second tracking enhancer is trivial at best and completly un-necessary
(5:26:35 PM) Nour Samy: Much better to ahve the third gyro which much greatly improves the statistics
(5:26:39 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: im not miissing your point
(5:26:43 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: stop telling me im missing the point
(5:26:46 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i understand you
(5:26:54 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i understand you think its a great point
(5:27:00 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i understand what gyros do
(5:27:07 PM) Nour Samy: And we've tested it, it works very well, does not need the extra range, and has absolutly no need for the extra tracking
(5:27:11 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i understand the equations behind optimal falloff tracking dps alpha
(5:27:17 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: im not missing anything
(5:28:16 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: now
(5:28:35 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i couldnt care less tonight tbh im not talking fitting
(5:28:41 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i jsut wanted to illustrate to you
(5:28:52 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: how very unflexible you are about ANYTHING
(5:28:57 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: you think your right and thats that
(5:29:01 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: we may not even take canes
(5:29:05 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i conceded your tank is better
(5:29:11 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: theres no room for discussion with you
(5:29:16 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: about this TE/gyro thing
(5:29:17 PM) Nour Samy: Because its quite obvious the third gyro is much more beneficial Rofl.
(5:29:19 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: ur right thats that
(5:29:23 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: to you it is
(5:29:26 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: and im sure you know ur right
(5:29:30 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: you may be
(5:29:40 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: but you are unwilling to even broach the subject
(5:29:43 PM) Nour Samy: (12:26:20 AM) nour_samy@fcon.us/84b04c83: And we've tested it, it works very well, does not need the extra range, and has absolutly no need for the extra tracking
(5:29:52 PM) Nour Samy: Not talking just numbers
(5:29:57 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: another reason going into you are certain your right
(5:30:09 PM) Nour Samy: THis is field tests, a second tracking is detrimental
(5:30:10 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: im simply illustrating your unwillingness and inability to discuss thing
(5:30:12 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: s
(5:30:31 PM) Nour Samy: I'm more than willing to discuss things, I showed both ends of it, and I showed why the third gyro is clearly superiour
(5:30:33 PM) Nour Samy: sperior
(5:30:37 PM) Nour Samy: superior*
(5:30:48 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: and if i disagree im wrong and your right
(5:30:49 PM) rofl_stomp@fcon.us/pc/: i get it