Hendricks266

Convo with Jace Hall (timestamped), #thepostmortem, 20120802

Aug 2nd, 2012
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  1. Aug 02 00:51:28 * jacehall (webchat@cpe-98-154-4-90.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #thepostmortem
  2. Aug 02 00:51:40 <jacehall> hello?
  3. Aug 02 00:51:49 <BoN> Are you the Jace Hall?
  4. Aug 02 00:51:53 <jacehall> yes
  5. Aug 02 00:51:57 <BoN> Really?
  6. Aug 02 00:52:08 <jacehall> i posted on the forum but I think someone deleted it
  7. Aug 02 00:52:20 <BoN> Your involved with Blood's development?
  8. Aug 02 00:52:33 <BoN> Hmmm...
  9. Aug 02 00:52:38 <jacehall> I am the reason you know Blood exists at all.. yes
  10. Aug 02 00:52:41 <jacehall> :)
  11. Aug 02 00:52:57 <meleemario> holy shit
  12. Aug 02 00:53:08 <meleemario> good to see you in here Mr. Hall, Blood is one of my all time favorite games!
  13. Aug 02 00:53:14 <jacehall> I've come to this website because I was thinking about bringing blood back
  14. Aug 02 00:53:28 <BoN> A Reboot perhaps?
  15. Aug 02 00:53:29 <jacehall> wanted to see what the community thought of that idea
  16. Aug 02 00:53:39 <jacehall> not a reboot
  17. Aug 02 00:53:39 <jacehall> the original
  18. Aug 02 00:53:41 <jacehall> exactly
  19. Aug 02 00:53:51 <BoN> That's great news
  20. Aug 02 00:53:54 <meleemario> like, release the source code??
  21. Aug 02 00:54:07 <jacehall> i have the source code
  22. Aug 02 00:54:21 <meleemario> my god, thats the best thing ive heard in a long time
  23. Aug 02 00:54:28 <meleemario> id love it if the source code to Blood were finally released
  24. Aug 02 00:54:28 <BoN> I think there is legal barriors though preventing you from releasing right?
  25. Aug 02 00:54:52 <Hendricks266> jacehall: Wow, that's great news!
  26. Aug 02 00:55:21 <Hendricks266> jacehall: Did you hang on to it way back from the original development or did you reacquire it since then?
  27. Aug 02 00:55:28 <jacehall> if I wanted to release the source i could of course
  28. Aug 02 00:55:45 <meleemario> i think we'd all like to know
  29. Aug 02 00:55:55 <BoN> The source code could help this community
  30. Aug 02 00:56:00 <jacehall> however, i am not sure if that is the best thing considering what I would like to do
  31. Aug 02 00:56:19 <jacehall> so i have some ideas and I need to know what the community thinks
  32. Aug 02 00:56:47 <jacehall> do you guys have a few minutes to discuss this?
  33. Aug 02 00:56:53 <Hendricks266> jacehall: Absolutely
  34. Aug 02 00:57:06 <BoN> Well....where to start...
  35. Aug 02 00:57:31 <jacehall> ok first of all I need you all to understand that I am not looking to try to make money with what I want to do
  36. Aug 02 00:57:45 <jacehall> everything I am talking about is intended to be free for everyone
  37. Aug 02 00:57:48 <jacehall> got it?
  38. Aug 02 00:57:58 <BoN> Got it
  39. Aug 02 00:58:07 <meleemario> understood
  40. Aug 02 00:58:17 <jacehall> ok. Are you all familiar with ZDAEMON?
  41. Aug 02 00:58:29 <BoN> I know ZDoom very well
  42. Aug 02 00:58:57 <Hendricks266> ZDoom, ZDaemon, Skulltag, same family
  43. Aug 02 00:59:03 <Hendricks266> Yes :)
  44. Aug 02 00:59:23 <meleemario> yep, im familiar with em
  45. Aug 02 00:59:26 <meleemario> big user of zDoom here
  46. Aug 02 00:59:36 <Hendricks266> jacehall: Wow... there's so much to say...
  47. Aug 02 00:59:36 <jacehall> well zdaemon is a really cool enhancement to doom that offers better networking, options, etc.
  48. Aug 02 00:59:43 <Hendricks266> Oh!
  49. Aug 02 00:59:47 <Hendricks266> I know exactly what you mean
  50. Aug 02 00:59:53 <Hendricks266> jacehall: http://eduke32.com
  51. Aug 02 00:59:59 <Hendricks266> I am a member of the EDuke32 team
  52. Aug 02 01:00:15 <BoN> Well have you heard the BloodXL project?
  53. Aug 02 01:00:17 <Hendricks266> it's a modern "source port" using the original source code of Duke Nukem 3D release by 3D Realms
  54. Aug 02 01:00:25 <Hendricks266> same BUILD engine as Blood
  55. Aug 02 01:00:33 <jacehall> im familliar with eduke32 but it is not as robust as ZDAEMON... but you all know what I mean now right?
  56. Aug 02 01:00:58 <Hendricks266> Yes, the Doom community is bigger and we have had the Doom source for a number of years longer than Duke
  57. Aug 02 01:01:17 <jacehall> ok.
  58. Aug 02 01:01:29 <jacehall> so i want to talk about this in 3 parts
  59. Aug 02 01:01:45 <jacehall> The first part is the game BLOOD itself
  60. Aug 02 01:02:22 <jacehall> The game BLOOD is awesome. AS IS. It has great gameplay and excellent ideas and is super fun to play. Can we all agree on that?
  61. Aug 02 01:02:38 <meleemario> hell yes!
  62. Aug 02 01:03:05 <Hendricks266> Agreed!
  63. Aug 02 01:03:13 <Hendricks266> The original is the best.
  64. Aug 02 01:03:36 <BoN> Well the original is better than Blood 2 at least
  65. Aug 02 01:03:36 <meleemario> without a doubt
  66. Aug 02 01:03:55 <Hendricks266> Yes
  67. Aug 02 01:04:07 <jacehall> Ok. Part one of what I want to do is make it so that BLOOD is made to work NATIVELY on current computers (Mac/PC) without any special drivers/mods/etc. and that all platforms can play against each other on the same server.
  68. Aug 02 01:04:43 <meleemario> you mean like release the source code, right?
  69. Aug 02 01:04:57 <meleemario> or am i getting off track here?
  70. Aug 02 01:05:12 <jacehall> the graphics would remain the same, except higher resolutions would be possible and there would be some enhancement options added (but not required)
  71. Aug 02 01:05:46 <jacehall> forget about the source code for this part of the conversation. I am only talking about what I would like to do.
  72. Aug 02 01:05:54 <meleemario> that would be wonderful!
  73. Aug 02 01:06:12 <meleemario> ok
  74. Aug 02 01:06:12 <meleemario> carry on with what you were saying
  75. Aug 02 01:06:15 <Hendricks266> Everything so far sounds good.
  76. Aug 02 01:06:21 <BoN> Anyway, Jace Hall have you heard of Kurt's B2R by anychance? http://blood2r.com/
  77. Aug 02 01:06:22 <jacehall> So are you following me so far in what I want to do with Part One?
  78. Aug 02 01:06:52 <meleemario> yes, i follow
  79. Aug 02 01:07:04 <Hendricks266> Yes
  80. Aug 02 01:07:09 <BoN> Yes
  81. Aug 02 01:07:41 <jacehall> ok. So imagine this updated but ORIGINAL perfect working copy of BLOOD.
  82. Aug 02 01:08:16 <jacehall> Now add all the standard network capability that you would expect in a modern game. Just like what ZDAEMON adds to Doom...
  83. Aug 02 01:08:22 <jacehall> Are you still with me?
  84. Aug 02 01:08:40 <Hendricks266> Yes
  85. Aug 02 01:08:45 <meleemario> yes
  86. Aug 02 01:08:54 <jacehall> OK. Now here is PART 2
  87. Aug 02 01:11:16 <jacehall> Now imagine that all of the things that matter in game, like frags, # of secrets found, time to complete a level in single play or co-op play, hit/miss shot percentages, battles won, etc. ARE ALL TRACKED in a universal BLOOD database that can be accessed by users and the information displayed
  88. Aug 02 01:12:07 <meleemario> that sounds heavy
  89. Aug 02 01:12:12 <jacehall> Now imagine that this database can not be cheated or hacked so you know that the information in it is always accurate
  90. Aug 02 01:12:51 <Hendricks266> Interesting idea
  91. Aug 02 01:12:56 <meleemario> indeed
  92. Aug 02 01:13:28 <jacehall> Now imagine tournaments of every kind that the community can have. From who can play levels the fastest, to who is the best at bloodbath, etc.
  93. Aug 02 01:13:41 <jacehall> and all the records are accurate
  94. Aug 02 01:13:57 <meleemario> that would be pretty awesome
  95. Aug 02 01:14:10 <Hendricks266> A leadboard! Nice
  96. Aug 02 01:14:12 <Hendricks266> err
  97. Aug 02 01:14:14 <Hendricks266> leaderboard
  98. Aug 02 01:14:16 <Hendricks266> heheh
  99. Aug 02 01:14:44 <jacehall> Certainly, anyone can make maps and levels for general use that dont get tracked, but imagine being able to submit your level into the system and have it be part of the official available set...
  100. Aug 02 01:16:00 <meleemario> right, sounds like a rad idea
  101. Aug 02 01:16:02 <BoN> Now what about single player? I'm never really into Bloodbath/Multiplayer that much though but it's just me
  102. Aug 02 01:16:07 <jacehall> Imagine the CTF tournaments and etc. all of which can be part of a total blood gameplay experience
  103. Aug 02 01:16:47 <jacehall> Suddenly, if you are investing a lot of time and skill into Blood, you can be recognized for it.
  104. Aug 02 01:17:11 <meleemario> that would be pretty cool
  105. Aug 02 01:17:22 <jacehall> Achievements can be set and clans can have official skins
  106. Aug 02 01:17:25 <meleemario> \m/
  107. Aug 02 01:17:49 <jacehall> Does all of this sound interesting to you? or do you think the community would hate this?
  108. Aug 02 01:18:22 <BoN> Well like I said before I'm mostly a single player person
  109. Aug 02 01:18:49 <BoN> Although there's others that like Bloodbath though
  110. Aug 02 01:18:59 <meleemario> i like it, although i havent got the internet connection for multiplayer
  111. Aug 02 01:19:07 <jacehall> so imagine now playing single player and having your achievements there be reflected in the database so other single players can try to compete with your accomplishments
  112. Aug 02 01:19:59 <Hendricks266> I think it would blow the community's mind
  113. Aug 02 01:20:10 <meleemario> ill say!
  114. Aug 02 01:20:19 <jacehall> Ok. so now lets talk about source code
  115. Aug 02 01:20:40 <meleemario> ok!
  116. Aug 02 01:20:51 <jacehall> when source code is released in enables cheating/hacking greatly
  117. Aug 02 01:21:01 <jacehall> especially for something like what I described
  118. Aug 02 01:21:55 <Hendricks266> It's a tradeoff, like anything
  119. Aug 02 01:21:59 <meleemario> yes
  120. Aug 02 01:22:03 <jacehall> When source gets released, it can sometimes really cause a community to break into small factions for all the different versions. This is what happened to DOOM
  121. Aug 02 01:22:57 <meleemario> how do you mean exactly?
  122. Aug 02 01:23:05 <BoN> Yep, I think there will be a ZDoom/EDuke32 Equilivant source port for Blood
  123. Aug 02 01:23:07 <Hendricks266> That is true, but it's not a straight comparison. Doom had explosive popularity, more than Blood ever had
  124. Aug 02 01:23:14 <BoN> I'm actually all for the modernization of Blood
  125. Aug 02 01:23:29 <BoN> like adding new enemies/weapons/etc
  126. Aug 02 01:23:39 <BoN> Also restoring stuff from the Alpha as well
  127. Aug 02 01:23:47 <BoN> like Beast mode and such
  128. Aug 02 01:24:02 <jacehall> interesting
  129. Aug 02 01:24:04 <Hendricks266> There are two (three sort of) main ports of Duke 3D.
  130. Aug 02 01:24:15 <Hendricks266> EDuke32 is the most advanced (I'm biased)
  131. Aug 02 01:24:40 <Hendricks266> but the main developer tried to rewrite the network code to modern client/server architecture. something like you envision for Blood
  132. Aug 02 01:24:45 <Hendricks266> then he got married and had a kid
  133. Aug 02 01:24:46 <BoN> Of course Jace Hall have you heard of Brutal Doom? I would like to see a more gorier version of Blood...it needs more Blood
  134. Aug 02 01:25:03 <Hendricks266> so the MP code has been somewhat broken in EDuke32 for several years
  135. Aug 02 01:25:08 <Hendricks266> there is another port named xDuke
  136. Aug 02 01:25:13 <Hendricks266> which is used solely for MP
  137. Aug 02 01:25:36 <Hendricks266> a third called hDuke, based on xDuke, which was made to combat cheating and add more MP game modes
  138. Aug 02 01:26:02 <Hendricks266> however, in the words of those who use hDuke and xDuke, many people check very often to see if there is progress on EDuke32's MP code
  139. Aug 02 01:26:17 <jacehall> i see
  140. Aug 02 01:26:39 <BoN> And also a Hall of Epiphany depicted from the cutscenes I always wanted to know why the cutscene HoE is different thant the retail level
  141. Aug 02 01:26:40 <jacehall> Well, these are the thoughts I have about Blood....
  142. Aug 02 01:26:54 <Hendricks266> I think Blood would turn out more like Duke's situation. Not splintered.
  143. Aug 02 01:27:01 <Hendricks266> Even Doom is not in a bad spot per se
  144. Aug 02 01:27:07 <jacehall> I will eventually figure it out...
  145. Aug 02 01:27:22 <Hendricks266> Thinking about all your ideas
  146. Aug 02 01:27:24 <Hendricks266> I like them very much
  147. Aug 02 01:27:35 <meleemario> same here
  148. Aug 02 01:27:35 <BoN> Of course I wanted to know where that Civalian from the ending came from and where that opening leads to....
  149. Aug 02 01:27:49 <BoN> that Caleb shoots with the Tommygun at the end
  150. Aug 02 01:27:52 <jacehall> but at least you can know that there may be more hope for Blood still. I've always loved the game.
  151. Aug 02 01:28:02 <Hendricks266> Also, thinking about the experience in the history of Duke, and another Build game released by 3D Realms, Shadow Warrior:
  152. Aug 02 01:28:16 <Hendricks266> they both had their source code released under the GNU GPL v2
  153. Aug 02 01:28:57 <Hendricks266> meanwhile, the Build engine itself is released under its own license that says you are free to do almost whatever you want with the code as long as it remains for free and Ken still is credited
  154. Aug 02 01:29:10 <Hendricks266> so we have a lot of freedom
  155. Aug 02 01:29:35 <Hendricks266> It is true that keeping the source closed would prevent easy cheating and hacking
  156. Aug 02 01:29:51 <Hendricks266> however, those things still exist for even closed-source games
  157. Aug 02 01:30:16 <Hendricks266> also, open source does not necessarily mean easy hacking either
  158. Aug 02 01:30:23 <Hendricks266> There is an algorithm named "SSH"
  159. Aug 02 01:30:33 <Hendricks266> or SSL
  160. Aug 02 01:30:41 <meleemario> Skulltag was closed-source for a while, and i think cheating still occurred?
  161. Aug 02 01:30:42 <Hendricks266> (sorry, forget which, but they are closely related)
  162. Aug 02 01:30:51 <Hendricks266> It is completely open source
  163. Aug 02 01:30:52 <Hendricks266> actually
  164. Aug 02 01:30:55 <Hendricks266> it is
  165. Aug 02 01:30:58 <jacehall> ya.. i will continue to this about this
  166. Aug 02 01:31:03 <Hendricks266> might be named SHA
  167. Aug 02 01:31:06 <Hendricks266> anyway, names aside
  168. Aug 02 01:31:25 <Hendricks266> it is used to encrypt sensitive information, including many credit card transactions
  169. Aug 02 01:31:29 <Hendricks266> it is how "HTTPS" works
  170. Aug 02 01:31:37 <Hendricks266> and it is fundamentally secure, even being open source
  171. Aug 02 01:32:04 <jacehall> Yes I know, I have a programming background... :) i am going to go play some ZDAEMON now and check stuff out...
  172. Aug 02 01:32:19 <Hendricks266> :)
  173. Aug 02 01:32:51 <jacehall> please share what I have said with the community here. I am interested in hearing what everyone has to say...
  174. Aug 02 01:33:10 <Hendricks266> Will do
  175. Aug 02 01:33:19 <jacehall> thanks guys.
  176. Aug 02 01:33:23 <jacehall> Stay great!
  177. Aug 02 01:33:27 <Hendricks266> Stay in touch!
  178. Aug 02 01:33:33 <jacehall> ill be around
  179. Aug 02 01:33:37 <meleemario> we will, thanks for stopping by Mr. Hall!
  180. Aug 02 01:33:42 <Hendricks266> Yes, thank you.
  181. Aug 02 01:33:43 <meleemario> please stay in touch!
  182. Aug 02 01:33:47 <jacehall> no problem
  183. Aug 02 01:34:02 * jacehall has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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