Interview with anti-GamerGate

bonegolem Feb 10th, 2015 (edited) 1,551 Never
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  1. This is the full transcript of the interview quoted in the "The monster to silence" infograph / short article, part of the "Ethic Fail" series and found at or
  3. No alteration, safe from a grammar / spelling, the removal of some fluff and of identifying data.
  4. The extra-cringy dialogue from me (Q) is also kept in its cringyness.
  8. Q: I write infographs / short articles on large scandals in gaming journalism history.
  9. Q: You can see them at
  10. Q: I was considering — mid to long term — the making one about the harassment narrative.
  11. Q: As in, how the press covers the harassment happening in a very biased way — censoring harassment of GamerGate supporters, not checking their sources properly…
  13. A: Oh, I see. I guess I've learned a lot about that seeing as I'm neutral.
  14. A: This might be a long conversation, to be honest.
  16. Q: Well, mostly I wanted to check if there's any resource I could use to know about harassment on the AntiGamerGate, since I'm comfy in my echo chamber and I might not know about some episodes.
  18. A: There's actually a great deal of reasons why the press ignores GamerGate harassment. But, I admit, that it seems biased. I discussed this before with Anti-GamerGate friends.
  19. A: If it's okay with you I would like to remain anonymous.
  21. Q: No problem.
  23. A: First, you should read the storifys by @a_man_in_black [anti-GamerGate activist].
  24. A: To explain, we already know that the obvious harassment toward anti-GamerGate are third party trolls.
  25. A: These are considered GamerGate's fault because they use the hashtag, so GamerGaters are complicit in these attacks. Basically GamerGate left itself too open for anyone to co-opt the tag to harass people.
  26. A: That's most obvious.
  27. A: But there's more.
  28. A: Several sectors and individuals handle both this and the nature of chan culture in a very poor manner. Anything related to chan culture is deemed harassment.
  29. A: Check the storify too, by the way.
  31. Q: Saved it. I'll read it later.
  33. A: This is because of culture. What they perceive as harassment and what GamerGate perceive as harassment are entirely different things.
  34. A: GamerGate is perceived as children who do not understand.
  36. Q: This is very eye-opening.
  38. A: Homophobia and Transphobia carry weight due to systematic harmful aspects.
  39. A: Oh, uh, thank you.
  40. A: Let's address GamerGate’s transphobia.
  41. A: This is deemed as harassment.
  42. A: What upsets people is that GamerGate does not target these people for voicing transphobic opinions.
  43. A: @a_man_in_black for example wants GamerGateers to delete offending tweets or stay away from GamerGate, because the people involved are harassers.
  44. A: Transphobia is seen as dangerous.
  45. A: Many trans people are killed or commit suiade because of this.
  46. A: This is the concern.
  48. Q: I'm Italian. Very uninformed about that culture. Always very afraid to screw up and be impolite by mistake.
  50. A: So when Milo voices his opinions of transphobia, no matter how he frames it's less simple harmless opinions and more harassment
  51. A: So, his transphobia is enough to make him bad.
  52. A: Basically, GamerGateers aggressive attitudes offend people, for example:
  53. A: Calling Brianna Wu male when there is little evidence she is transgender.
  54. A: No one knows.
  55. A: Ether A) It's a mean spirited lie.
  56. A: B) She’s is trans and people are outing her.
  57. A: Outing a trans person is most dangerous.
  58. A: Allistair Pinsof is considered scum for doing this.
  60.         [Pinsof is a former Destructoid journalist, famously fired after investigating an IndieGoGo scam.
  61.         Pinsof discovered that Chloe Segal was attempting to crowdfund a sex change surgery while claiming it was a life-saving operation.
  62.         By revealing the scam, Pinsof also outed Sagal as trans, which caused strong backlash from the LGBT community, despite the context, and led to Pinsof's firing in suspicious circumstances, which were later discovered to involve severe impropriety from Destructoid's owner and his Editor-in-Chief.
  63.         More information: — "blacklisting" section.]
  65. A: No matter what, he is scum. It doesn't matter that Segal is a fraud. Pinsof outed a trans woman.
  66. A: There was a story of a trans woman being murdered after she was outed publically, can't find the article.
  68. Q: This is all extremely helpful.
  70. A: When you see misgendering, labelling a trans woman as a he. Calling her a tranny. The term trap. It or he/she it's transphobia.
  71. A: Even jokes are considered offensive.
  72. A: This one of many offensive language thatGamerGate uses to make them seem like a hate group
  73. A: From the casual use of fag to call anyone. To calling people gay or beta.
  74. A: Toxic Masculinity is involved with calling people Beta.
  75. A: Now for the harassers.
  76. A: As I understand — to antiGG, GamerGate’s Harassment Patrol doesn’t work
  77. A: Because it only reports within Twitter laws
  78. A: It does not report people who anti-GamerGate believe to also be responsible of harassment
  79. A: E.G. Rogue Star and his threat.
  80. A: He was joking when he made that threat but it is taken seriously no matter what.
  81. A: Alright, I could go on and on about harassment, but I like to break down a comparison and why GamerGate’s harassment is seen as worst.
  82. A: While the harassment of GamerGate supporters is not seen as as bad.
  83. A: 1) When @srhbutts [anti-GamerGate activist] and @a_man_in_black refer to GamerGate, they refer to the tag itself.
  84. A: Meaning
  85. A: It's not harassment to say "Gamergate Is transphobic, racist"
  86. A: Nothing they do is harassment.
  87. A: When you insult GamerGate you’re only insulting the tag
  89. Q: I hope this is not offensive or anything, but when dealing with... well, I don't know what the non-offensive term would be, but "SJW” / Rad Fems etc I’ve always been turned off by what I perceive as very heavy handed behaviour, never actually managed to see the the problems behind it before today.
  91. A: I understand.
  92. A: Now here’s why it’s false equivalence.
  93. A: When you enter the thread saying "Well GamerGateers are also harassed" you are laughed out, mocked or ostracised.
  94. A: Because to anti they are not
  95. A: We Insult the tag, we generalize the group.
  96. A: Not the person.
  97. A: Why you never see @a_man_in_black refer to the person. He just says, "GamerGate is transphobic"
  98. A: Now then, why is GamerGate’s harassment worst and different?
  99. A: Because Anti-GamerGate is not a group
  100. A: We don’t have a hashtag.
  101. A: So who does GamerGate harass?
  102. A: The individual.
  103. A: For one harasser of a GamerGateer, there is 1000 harassers of Brlanna Wu.
  104. A: It's harassment when one person Is smeared by groups of people.
  105. A: No matter how evil they are
  106. A: It's abuse and harassment
  107. A: Worse
  109. Q: So, has there been condemnation from the antis of the harassment faced by INDIVIDUALS in GamerGate? Like, say, the fellow who was fired [Jason Miller AKA Polar Roller, one of the earliest #NotYourShield posters]?
  111. A: And anyone anti doesn't want to poke the hornets nest because GamerGate will sting them by the hundreds.
  112. A: Nope.
  113. A: It's GamerGate
  114. A: GamerGate is the worst, period.
  115. A: So, as far as they go, GamerGate is responsible for his harassment.
  116. A: All harassment is the directly responsible by GamerGate
  117. A: He supported GamerGate and got burned
  118. A: GamerGate is a hate group
  119. A: He faces the con sequences of supporting a hate group
  120. A: It's always one person burned by GamerGate
  121. A: There's no Anti
  122. A: Anti is everyone else, probably everyone else in the world
  123. A: GamerGate Is a minority as they put It
  124. A: And GamerGate is a hate group pushing women out the industry
  125. A: if a friend hates a GamerGate supporter, they are vilified. They saw the light. GamerGate is on the wrong side of the history.
  126. A: Basically, GamerGate are the bad guys, so it's justice when a GamerGate supporter is harassed.
  127. A: …It's disgusting.
  128. A: The reason why I say I want to remain anonymous is because I been rethinking my stance as of late.
  129. A: But, I never want to reveal these opinions publicly.
  130. A: I have friends who rationalize this, and I still find it absolutely disgusting.
  132. Q: But do they believe that the harassment that, say, Polar Roller has faced is not done by them because they're not a group right?
  134. A: To many women have been smeared byGamerGate.
  135. A: Yes
  136. A: GamerGate people are responsible for every member in it.
  137. A: Period
  139. Q: So, he's like a guy who robs a bank and gets shot by a cop
  141. A: So one GamerGate supporter harasses, it's GamerGate's fault.
  142. A: Yes, basically.
  143. A: If an Anti-GamerGate harasses, it's just that anti fault.
  144. A: Meaning Anti-GamerGate people don't apologize for other Anti-GamerGate.
  145. A: They have to treat them as a individual.
  146. Q: Got it. I agree that this is quite a toxic stance.
  147. A: If for example, @a_man_in_black did log harassment done to GamerGate supporters, he'd have to list the people responsible.
  148. A: He can't say Anti-GamerGate is harassers.
  149. A: He has to say this person is harasser.
  150. A: Here's the true reason.
  151. A: GamerGate is seen more like a club.
  153. Q: However, I knew that before. What I discovered is that there is an actual problem beneath.
  155. A: If a GamerGate supporter does it, it’s all GamerGate’s fault A: No matter how much they act alone
  156. A: I learned GamerGate doesn't view itself this way and every member is responsible for their own action.
  157. A: Oh?
  159. Q: So, how do they feel about the journalism angle? Like, the Hernandez situation [Cronyism at Kotaku, see], or GamelournoPros [Collusion between journalists in secret, see]. Do they believe this is not a problem, or do they agree that it might be but not if it's brought up by GamerGate because they’re harassers?
  161. A: Collusion is not a problem. It's networking.
  162. A: Basically, it should haven't been as huge a problem because game journalism isn't like real journalism.
  163. A: Also, indie developers are small time. They have to make friends somehow in order to promote games.
  165. Q: There’s an actual problem as in there is a different view, as you've said, that is not understood by GamerGate people.
  166. Q: That’s something, that, personally, I’d like to at least understand well, see if I can correct.
  168. A: To some it sort of is, but its more about bigger places and publishers
  169. A: Game sites and indie developers are small and don't get paid much. It’s not a problem. They need the collusion to survive.
  170. A: Or so its said.
  171. A: GameJournoPros isn’t a problem at all actually
  172. A: The Hernandez thing wasn't a problem. It just seemed like GamerGate harassing another woman
  174. Q: Here’s something that I really can't wrap my mind around. It seems like, to at least a large number of this people, belonging to a certain demographic is a free pass for all kinds of immoral / ambiguous behaviour
  175. Q: As long as they hold a certain opinion
  177. A: The right side of history.
  178. A: If you believe in freedom and equality, doesn't matter how extreme it sounds.
  179. A: it’s good for the future,
  181. Q: I'll need some time to digest all this
  183. A: It’s bordering bigot and yesterday I learned of Marxism. This is becoming Marxism.
  184. A: There is a agenda that I noticed.
  186. Q: You’ve been fantastically helpful, I honestly came to you to look for a couple of links, I'm very grateful you took so much time, I learnt a lot
  188. A: Yeah. Check all of @a_man_in_black's storifies
  189. A: Read each and every last one.
  190. A: They are important for you to understand how they view GamerGate
  191. A: Literally everything you need to know is in those storifies.
  192. A: And keep me anonymous.
  193. A: I have to say, since yesterday, I'm actually concerned by these ideals.
  194. A: So yeah. I’m afraid to voice them publicly.
  196. Q: Don't worry.
  197. Q: I myself am taking very strong precautions to stay anonymous, and understand you have even more reasons to be concerned
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