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  1. [15/11/2014 20:45:57] *** Frog/PIBH added Cloud Kicker, _ Vinz _ ***
  2. [15/11/2014 20:47:19] *** Frog/PIBH has changed the conversation topic to "Peace: What will it take?" ***
  3. [15/11/2014 20:47:55] Frog/PIBH: The conversation description is simple enough: Fairly self-explanatory I think.
  4. [15/11/2014 20:48:32] Cloud Kicker: Hello.
  5. [15/11/2014 20:49:50] Frog/PIBH: The first thing I would like to do is explain my role here. I am here to make sure these negotiations go ahead fairly and honestly, making suggestions that seem reasonable to me as an outside observer.
  6. [15/11/2014 20:51:39] Frog/PIBH: The first thing to do is offer an incentive to both sides to come to an understanding, and establish a reasonable penalty should either side go back on its word.
  7. [15/11/2014 20:52:57] _ Vinz _: Hi
  8. [15/11/2014 20:54:06] Frog/PIBH: The incentive is monetary. If both sides agree to a peace and hold to their respective words, I am willing to pay both sides somewhere in the region of five billion bits to aid recovery. Do you both agree this is more than reasonable for an uninvolved party only interested in peace?
  9. [15/11/2014 20:55:33] _ Vinz _: We can discuss about possibilities, but i cannot make decisions for our side without myrami. We are equal partners on this, so if you want our whole side to stop figthing, you need us both to agree.
  10. [15/11/2014 20:55:57] _ Vinz _: Sadly, myra is currently not available over skype, dont know when he returns
  11. [15/11/2014 20:56:08] Frog/PIBH: This is only a preliminary negotiation. I was under the impression Myrami could not use Skype over the weekends.
  12. [15/11/2014 20:56:23] Frog/PIBH: Do you agree with the idea on principle?
  13. [15/11/2014 20:57:02] _ Vinz _: Preliminary Negotiations are fine
  14. [15/11/2014 20:57:36] _ Vinz _: Yes, most of the weekends he is not available over skype because he has to use some old win xp maschine which doenst get along with the newest skype version
  15. [15/11/2014 20:59:29] Frog/PIBH: I am interested in both of your opinions on my suggestion to buy peace at five billion.
  16. [15/11/2014 20:59:57] Cloud Kicker: It sounds reasonable, but I would like something from Vince and Myrami as well.
  17. [15/11/2014 21:00:45] _ Vinz _: I lost a fully built up burro and tons of ressources and bits for defending
  18. [15/11/2014 21:01:12] Frog/PIBH: That's entirely understandable - but so will be their expectation of getting something from you. They are, despite their misdeeds, the defenders in this conflict - but we also have to consider that their past actions cannot be ignored, either.
  19. [15/11/2014 21:01:18] _ Vinz _: five billion wont cover that
  20. [15/11/2014 21:01:50] Frog/PIBH: No, it won't. It's unlikely that any reparation from these talks will completely cover either side's losses.
  21. [15/11/2014 21:02:30] _ Vinz _: five billion doesnt even cover the expenses i had for the cav defenders to hold my capital city
  22. [15/11/2014 21:03:00] _ Vinz _: i talk about troop costs only, there are weapons and armor to be paid too
  23. [15/11/2014 21:03:26] Cloud Kicker: Nor does it even begin to cover what I've spent attacking, the point is that he's wants peace and is willing to pay a high price for it.
  24. [15/11/2014 21:03:38] Frog/PIBH: The alternative is letting war drag on: and that brings us neatly around to the penalty should either side be unwilling to talk peace, go back on their word, or approach these talks in a less than reasonable manner.
  25. [15/11/2014 21:04:03] Frog/PIBH: If either side acts unreasonably or dishonourably in my view, I will join the other.
  26. [15/11/2014 21:05:06] _ Vinz _: so you just want to end this, disregarding on which side? You fight for the one who is more reasonable and plays by the rules? Sounds fine, i can agree to that
  27. [15/11/2014 21:05:30] Frog/PIBH: This is me getting involved. I would much rather we come to a reasonable, peaceful solution like sensible adults than continue war. My role here is to attempt to make things as reasonable as possible.
  28. [15/11/2014 21:07:59] Frog/PIBH: I had hoped to ask for a gesture of good faith from each side. A sensible, large figure that doesn't seem unreasonable is 2.5 billion bits. This "deposit," if you will, would be held by me until such time as the agreed upon conditions of the peace are fulfilled, and then returned along with the aforementioned five billion from my own coffers.
  29. [15/11/2014 21:09:26] Frog/PIBH: It would act as reassurance that both aggressor and defender are negotiating with their cards on the table, with a lot to gain from peace and something to lose.
  30. [15/11/2014 21:09:49] _ Vinz _: interesting plan
  31. [15/11/2014 21:12:01] Frog/PIBH: This lump sum, on violation of whatever agreement we come to, would be distributed to the aggrieved party along with another five billion from me. Does it seem sensible to you?
  32. [15/11/2014 21:12:51] Cloud Kicker: That works for me.
  33. [15/11/2014 21:13:42] _ Vinz _: me too
  34. [15/11/2014 21:14:03] Cloud Kicker: Is there anything you want from me Vinz?
  35. [15/11/2014 21:15:35] Frog/PIBH: Cloud, I appreciate that you're willing to consider making concessions at this early stage, but I would ask that for the moment we stay away from the subject. I'd just like to go over what we have already and open a different line of conversation.
  36. [15/11/2014 21:17:39 | Edited 21:17:56] _ Vinz _: What happens in the meantime while we are negotiating? Do the attacks continue or are they pulled back, a cease fire till negotiations are complete?
  37. [15/11/2014 21:19:07] Frog/PIBH: If peace is met, both sides will receive five billion from me and their deposits returned.
  38. If an agreement is not reached or followed honestly, I will join the side that approached things with a more open mind and pay them a total of ten billion.
  39. [15/11/2014 21:19:31] Frog/PIBH: While we are negotiating, attacks continue as normal. Until we have an agreement, we cannot do anything.
  40. [15/11/2014 21:21:16] Frog/PIBH: I have no authority to order anybody in this war to stand down, and asking for either of you to offer the other advantages at this stage - with nothing set down or in motion - would be unfair.
  41. [15/11/2014 21:21:39] _ Vinz _: its ok, i just wanted to ask
  42. [15/11/2014 21:22:16] Frog/PIBH: Now, I would like to steer the discussion towards recognising that the other party has reason to be angry. This is okay. There wouldn't be a war if everyone were happy.
  43. [15/11/2014 21:25:28] Frog/PIBH: Vinz, do you accept that by your actions you once prompted Cloud to destroy a large empire? Do you accept that Myrami has been acting very aggressively in recent months?
  44.  
  45. Cloud, do you accept that the loss of your empire happened a long time ago, and that aggression now is not going to bring back what was lost? Do you accept that Vinz and Myra have cause to be frustrated at this current slew of attacks?
  46. [15/11/2014 21:26:10] Cloud Kicker: Yes.
  47. [15/11/2014 21:28:26] _ Vinz _: I can accept that, with the exception that it should be clear that i never forced him to destroy his empire. It was his decision to do that as a reaction to my successful attack. I am sorry that it came to this, i didnt ment you to loose all your nations. We could have easily made an agreement back then after you lost two of your nations to me.
  48. [15/11/2014 21:28:59] _ Vinz _: So its ok to say i was causing him to do this, but i never forced him
  49. [15/11/2014 21:29:22] Frog/PIBH: What's past is past. The fact of the matter is that the Legacy of Bug placed all the power in your hands, Vinz, and the intimidation factor of half a million troops is not inconsiderable.
  50. [15/11/2014 21:30:05] Frog/PIBH: We're not here to blame, though, we're here to understand. Everyone has grievances, and these need to be addressed.
  51. [15/11/2014 21:33:36 | Edited 21:33:48] _ Vinz _: Can we talk about the deal to give cloud one of the nations i conquered for him back? It hurt me that he broke the deal we had by getting the nation back with a sneak attack. A admit it was my fault not to see the activity checker he sent, so its ok. But i was thinking we had an greement. CK never said that what i wanted in exchange for the nation was not reasonable, so i thought it was all ok with him. I had no problem letting that nation go in exhcange for another, i dont care that much about the prestige of some nation that someone owned before me or that is really old.
  52. [15/11/2014 21:35:01] _ Vinz _: I dont want to blame him, i just want that this is added to the list of things that make me angry about him.
  53. The orlifrin desert thing is past, we decided not to pursue it any further, because we didnt want to risk a war for that
  54. [15/11/2014 21:37:30] Cloud Kicker: Vinz, is it true that you two were planning on ascension?
  55. [15/11/2014 21:38:19] _ Vinz _: Sephi told you? Yes, we had that in mind and stocked up our DNA
  56. [15/11/2014 21:38:52] _ Vinz _: I loved the idea to start over with a small burro nation and farming drugs till the game explodes, like an retired old war veteran xD
  57. [15/11/2014 21:39:29] Frog/PIBH: We can certainly talk about broken deals and activity checkers.
  58. [15/11/2014 21:41:37] Frog/PIBH: The way I saw it at the time - as the leader of the DUMP - was that since Cloud owned those nations previously he had a certain amount of legitimacy in viewing them as "his". I trust you don't disagree with that per se?
  59. [15/11/2014 21:42:09 | Edited 21:42:15] _ Vinz _: thats why i had no problem with accepting the aforementioned deal
  60. [15/11/2014 21:42:35] _ Vinz _: when i remember it correct, it was CK who asked what i want in excahnge for the nation
  61. [15/11/2014 21:42:45] Frog/PIBH: If I remember correctly, the agreed-upon price was another nation and a billion bits?
  62. [15/11/2014 21:44:02 | Edited 21:44:09] Cloud Kicker: I believe it was a mirror of the nation.
  63. [15/11/2014 21:44:08 | Edited 21:44:59] _ Vinz _: so i just said "give me another SA nation in excahnge, preferably at a somewhat simliar stage of development as the current". i wanst oicky about the size of the nation, if would offer something that is 2/3s of orlifrin desert building wise, i would have accepted anyway. back then i sat on shitloads of ressources and didint mind about loosing some. I was most time at peace
  64. [15/11/2014 21:44:41] _ Vinz _: bullet was more greedy, but that was not mine business
  65. [15/11/2014 21:45:01] Frog/PIBH: I see. And when the nations were lost to checkers, Bullet gave up his nations to you for stewardship to build more?
  66. [15/11/2014 21:45:28] _ Vinz _: sry about my bad english, i am not ceoncentrated and miss some keys here and there
  67. [15/11/2014 21:45:48] Frog/PIBH: It's completely fine. I think we all still understand one another.
  68. [15/11/2014 21:46:05] _ Vinz _: [15 November 2014 21:45] Frogspawned:
  69.  
  70. <<< I see. And when the nations were lost to checkers, Bullet gave up his nations to you for stewardship to build more?yep, that was myras plan to get us back up on the amount of nations we had before
  71. [15/11/2014 21:47:11] Frog/PIBH: Mm. I remember offering something similar to Myra at the time to help you rebuild in the interests of peace.
  72. [15/11/2014 21:47:29] _ Vinz _: after we decided that we dont want to pursue that matter further with CK. We tried to get the nations back by talking, thought about our forceful options to get them, but after some lenghty discussion about the pro and contra of war, we decided against an attack and to follow this strategy to cover up our loss
  73. [15/11/2014 21:47:57] _ Vinz _: yes, he told me about your offer, but said you saw what we were doing and you pulled back your offer
  74. [15/11/2014 21:48:28] Frog/PIBH: Mm. I assumed everything was in hand and we could draw a line under the affair.
  75. [15/11/2014 21:50:25 | Edited 21:50:45] _ Vinz _: yes, it was all ok after that. I felt a betrayed, but i could live with that. Until CK and the other NASA members attacked me. I really didnt expect that, i thought everything was resolved and thought it was really rude of him to send this surpirse after us after we decided against war earlier
  76. [15/11/2014 21:50:44] Cloud Kicker: Vinz, if you had told me from the very beginning that you two wanted to ascend, I would have let you.
  77. [15/11/2014 21:51:05] Frog/PIBH: So is there anything you would ask as a concession to resolve any remaining ill-feeling from the Orlifrin Desert/Lightstone Mine business?
  78. [15/11/2014 21:53:00] _ Vinz _: I just want it to be mentioned insted of being forgotten. I dont want any reparations or anything for that, but an excue would be nice, but i dont insist on it. After all, he had some reason to want them back and he got them back without doing further damage to us. It was just a small, broken agreement.
  79. [15/11/2014 21:53:30] Frog/PIBH: Would an apology suffice, then?
  80. [15/11/2014 21:54:28] _ Vinz _: [15 November 2014 21:50] Cloud Kicker:
  81.  
  82. <<< Vinz, if you had told me from the very beginning that you two wanted to ascend, I would have let you.why should i tell you? This was our own business. And after the orlifrin thing our trust in you was gone. So we had no reason to tell anyone else before they could see it anyway. There is always the danger of someone wanting to disrupt our attempt, for whatever reasons
  83. [15/11/2014 21:54:35] _ Vinz _: Would an apology suffice, then?totally
  84. [15/11/2014 21:55:54] Cloud Kicker: Vinz, I'm sorry I took your nation with an activity check and broke our agreement.
  85. [15/11/2014 21:56:27] Frog/PIBH: It's alright. >CLOP is a game of secrets, and i'm sure nobody really blames you for keeping your ambition to ascend a secret.
  86. [15/11/2014 21:58:49] Frog/PIBH: Will that do, Vinz?
  87. [15/11/2014 22:00:18] _ Vinz _: yes
  88. [15/11/2014 22:00:55] Frog/PIBH: Then we'll say no more about it. Cloud, since Vinz brought up something he wanted to talk about, do you have anything you would like to mention?
  89. [15/11/2014 22:02:47] Cloud Kicker: Well, I would like Dirtopia, however, if you guys want to ascend I would stop all attacks a let you.
  90. [15/11/2014 22:03:58] Frog/PIBH: Alright, let's just take a step back for one moment. What would Dirtopia be for?
  91. [15/11/2014 22:04:13] Cloud Kicker: I'm open to suggestions.
  92. [15/11/2014 22:05:00] Frog/PIBH: Why do you want it? What would it be making up for? It's Myrami's nation, correct?
  93. [15/11/2014 22:05:27] _ Vinz _: Yes, its myramis capital. a quite valuable nation, it is on top of the statue toplist.
  94. [15/11/2014 22:06:26] Cloud Kicker: Those are both of the reasons I want it, but why should he? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's never lost a nation in this game.
  95. [15/11/2014 22:07:21] Frog/PIBH: Cloud, we're talking about our grievances. We can't ask him to pay just for being successful.
  96. [15/11/2014 22:07:41] Cloud Kicker: Now, that's not a very good reason by itself, but from all the greif he's caused, he should feel a little pain.
  97. [15/11/2014 22:07:47] _ Vinz _: Yes, because he is very caring about his nations. He invested much time into the game, to build up dirtopia to the gem it is.
  98. [15/11/2014 22:09:04] Frog/PIBH: So it's your opinion that Myrami should surrender Dirtopia in order to make up for the aggression he's shown over the past months? Do you have any specific instances you would like to mention?
  99. [15/11/2014 22:10:39] Cloud Kicker: Lets see. . . He destroyed HM, although no one really cared, he attacked THK, he wanted me to participate in an attack against polandball. . .
  100. [15/11/2014 22:11:59] Frog/PIBH: I don't think anyone will blame him too much for taking out HM, and despite an attack on Polandball being quite damning, I don't think it ever went ahead?
  101. [15/11/2014 22:12:01] _ Vinz _: i not feel obliged to talk back here, myra should have the option to talk back on this himself when he gets online
  102. [15/11/2014 22:12:59] Cloud Kicker: I understand, but like I said, if you guys want to ascend, I'll help you do it.
  103. [15/11/2014 22:13:25] Cloud Kicker: And Dirtopia was just something I wanted, but not needed.
  104. [15/11/2014 22:13:41] Cloud Kicker: Anyway, I'm going to go eat dinner.
  105. [15/11/2014 22:13:54] Frog/PIBH: Vinz, believe me, I know how important it is to get Myrami to agree to things before they become finalised. I ask that you trust me to negotiate reasonably on behalf of anybody who is not here at the moment.
  106.  
  107. Do you and Myra currently have plans to ascend?
  108. [15/11/2014 22:14:02] Frog/PIBH: Enjoy your food, Cloud.
  109. [15/11/2014 22:14:13] _ Vinz _: so we continue this later today or tomorrow, when myra is online at skype too?
  110. [15/11/2014 22:14:40] Frog/PIBH: I will set no date or time for a continuation. Let things progress at their own pace.
  111. [15/11/2014 22:15:01] Frog/PIBH: Either of you should feel free to bring things up they would like addressed at any time.
  112. [15/11/2014 22:17:41] _ Vinz _: [15 November 2014 22:13] Frogspawned:
  113.  
  114. <<< Do you and Myra currently have plans to ascend?We had to blast off our ascension plans completely. Myra sold part of his DNA stockpile to get funds for defending and the war drained much of our stockpiles. Its not easy to defend a large empire against SE and NLR and maybe player agressors while ascending. We only can contiunue our plan when everything is safe, no one is threatening us and we are back on full stockpiles, to be ready for everything that might get in our war to the stars
  115. [15/11/2014 22:18:06] _ Vinz _: Or in short: we cancelled our plans for now, pushed them back until the time is right
  116. [15/11/2014 22:18:34] Frog/PIBH: But you would start considering them again once peace is made?
  117. [15/11/2014 22:19:47] _ Vinz _: that is certainely possible, but i cannot gurantee it
  118. [15/11/2014 22:21:01 | Edited 22:21:22] _ Vinz _: it depends on the situtiation. Reason for our ascension plans was clop getting boring and we had less time because of real life stuff. Now suddently, clop is not boring... its TOO MUCH not boring when you are under attack >.>
  119. [15/11/2014 22:21:28] Frog/PIBH: Cloud said he would be happy to help you two ascend if you chose that route. I take that to mean he is threatened by your powerful presence in >CLOP at the moment. You and Myra are large powers, and have acted aggressively in the past.
  120. [15/11/2014 22:22:46] Frog/PIBH: If you both state an ambition to ascend, peace would help that goal. Would it be fair to include an official statement from the both of you that you are seriously considering ascension in any peace treaty?
  121. [15/11/2014 22:23:19] _ Vinz _: We are powerful and we dont fear to go to war when we decide it is the right thing for us, that is true. But we were always open for negotations. Myra offered his victims help more than once, one example is Dark Vessel. Only exception is MainMan, this was the only conflict myra did really take personal
  122. [15/11/2014 22:23:33] Frog/PIBH: I will not ask that you give a guarantee that you will some day ascend - that's outside the scope here, and nobody knows what the future holds.
  123. [15/11/2014 22:23:52] _ Vinz _: its ok to include it
  124. [15/11/2014 22:24:27 | Edited 22:24:43] _ Vinz _: we will definintaly ascend one day, when we think all our work here is done. We too want to get our mark on that ascension board
  125. [15/11/2014 22:25:19] Frog/PIBH: Then all that remains is for Cloud to affirm that he's happy with that making up for Myrami's recent aggression.
  126. [15/11/2014 22:25:42] Frog/PIBH: Is there anything else you would like to bring up while we wait?
  127. [15/11/2014 22:26:19] _ Vinz _: no, not at the moment
  128. [15/11/2014 22:27:08] Frog/PIBH: Then allow me. A planned attack against Polandball was mentioned. Did you have any part of that?
  129. [15/11/2014 22:33:19] _ Vinz _: I dont know much about it, i even cant remember how many weeks ago that was. I just know that myra mentioned something about he is talking with CK about attacking poland, but henever asked me to join that attack.
  130. [15/11/2014 22:34:31] _ Vinz _: The reason for planning that attack was, when i remember correctly, that polandball conquered a nation from a guy named Thamus who just left noob protection. The nation was sold to Myra. Poland and myra landet both at the same time, but poland had more troops and di get the nation
  131. [15/11/2014 22:35:15] _ Vinz _: Myra was furious about that, and polandball didnt want to give the nation back, so myra checked his options to take it back by force i think
  132. [15/11/2014 22:36:29] _ Vinz _: I think myra offered poland a deal during the negotatations, to give him the next nation he got build or something like that. Myra needed the nation from thamus fpr his expansion plans fast
  133. [15/11/2014 22:39:48] Frog/PIBH: I see. It's a knotty problem, then, all tied up with expansion and building and activity checkers.
  134. [15/11/2014 22:40:39] Frog/PIBH: Would it be unfair to say that that unpleasantness was probably a large part of why Poland agreed to take part in this offensive against you both, though?
  135. [15/11/2014 22:40:48] _ Vinz _: main problem was that thamus was without an alliance and didnt bother to join amep for protection, causing poland to think he can just take it. but poland also didnt step back or was ready to make amends
  136. [15/11/2014 22:42:08] _ Vinz _: as we speak about polandball, what is his status in this war? will he beb bound by an peace traty too, if we agree on one? I dont know if he is sending troops at myra at the moment, but he was definately part of the war earlier
  137. [15/11/2014 22:42:42] Frog/PIBH: I hope for the peace I negotiate to be as comprehensive as possible.
  138. [15/11/2014 22:43:31 | Edited 22:44:09] _ Vinz _: [15 November 2014 22:40] Frogspawned:
  139.  
  140. <<< Would it be unfair to say that that unpleasantness was probably a large part of why Poland agreed to take part in this offensive against you both, though?Dont know. Seems like his interest in the war was to get rid of anyone who threatened im earlier. but i dont know if this is his whole reason to join the war
  141. [15/11/2014 22:46:53] Frog/PIBH: No, I don't know either. But I think it would be reasonable to include something about it. Probably nothing material, but certainly some kind of gesture from Myrami.
  142. [15/11/2014 22:47:35] Cloud Kicker: I'm back.
  143. [15/11/2014 22:49:22] Frog/PIBH: Welcome back, Cloud. If you read up, you'll see us discuss ascension, your promise to help and how that relates to this peace. In the end we decided that so long as Vince and Myra make a public statement about their ambitions to ascend then that makes up for the issues that you mentioned.
  144. [15/11/2014 22:53:06] Frog/PIBH: Would you ask anything more for Myra's aggression against HM, THK or plans to attack Poland?
  145. [15/11/2014 23:00:07] Cloud Kicker: Myrami doesn't have the DNA required?
  146. [15/11/2014 23:00:46] Cloud Kicker: Would you ask anything more for Myra's aggression against HM, THK or plans to attack Poland?No.
  147. [15/11/2014 23:01:19] _ Vinz _: it seems so, he said something about selling it, but i am not sure if he really did or if he found a buyer
  148. [15/11/2014 23:03:13] Cloud Kicker: Hmm. . . .
  149. [15/11/2014 23:03:34] _ Vinz _: we agreed that its currently not possble to safely ascend so we pushed that plan back
  150. [15/11/2014 23:04:27] Frog/PIBH: Then what we have so far:
  151. Vinz and Myra will state their intent to ascend some day.
  152. Myrami will consider some kind of gesture for Poland.
  153. [15/11/2014 23:05:18] Frog/PIBH: I don't think there's anything else, since apologies have been made for other actions and relations seem fairly polite.
  154. [15/11/2014 23:06:32] Frog/PIBH: So I will give you some time to think of anything else you would each like addressed, and leave some time for other parties to get back to me on anything they would like to see from peace, and then we can move on to defusing the situation as it stands.
  155. [15/11/2014 23:07:46] _ Vinz _: There is no apolgy from CK for attacking me? Its fine that he apologized for the orlfrin thing. But in this current war, es was the attacker, shoudlnt he make some amends too when we have to?
  156. [15/11/2014 23:08:42] Frog/PIBH: We will have to discuss it. What would you ask from Cloud to make up for leading this offensive?
  157. [15/11/2014 23:10:12 | Edited 23:10:28] _ Vinz _: He should let someone make a nation for me to make up for the one i lost. I doesnt have to be fully biuld up, but everything that is build upon that bare land is taken as good will and wil lbe in his favor
  158. [15/11/2014 23:10:47] Frog/PIBH: You want a saddle arabian nation?
  159. [15/11/2014 23:11:42] Cloud Kicker: Have Myrami give you the nation he took last night.
  160. [15/11/2014 23:12:38 | Edited 23:13:24] _ Vinz _: it was a burrozil, one of my first expansions back then
  161. [15/11/2014 23:13:41] Frog/PIBH: Cloud Kicker, Myrami having taken a nation is a seperate issue. Do you think it's unfair of Vinz to ask for a nation?
  162. [15/11/2014 23:14:30] Cloud Kicker: Yes.
  163. [15/11/2014 23:14:33] Cloud Kicker: He has 8.
  164. [15/11/2014 23:14:42] Cloud Kicker: That's more than he's ever had.
  165. [15/11/2014 23:15:30] Frog/PIBH: Then what would you offer him instead of a nation? Bits? Resources?
  166. [15/11/2014 23:16:17] _ Vinz _: I just have 8 nations at the moment because i hold 3 of them still for bullet
  167. [15/11/2014 23:18:05 | Edited 23:18:13] _ Vinz _: he feared that he is not able to defend himself efficiently, so i agreed with him to hold his nations longer, to strenghen my defens postion through more ressources and to make sure he is not a target with only one nation or zero nations
  168. [15/11/2014 23:18:33] Frog/PIBH: Does that make his request sound more reasonable, Cloud?
  169. [15/11/2014 23:19:31] Cloud Kicker: Not really.
  170. [15/11/2014 23:20:09] Frog/PIBH: Then would you like to justify holding twelve nations and only accept Vinz holding six?
  171. [15/11/2014 23:20:53] Cloud Kicker: I'm not saying he can't get another one, I'm saying why should we give him one?
  172. [15/11/2014 23:21:34] Frog/PIBH: You are the aggressors here. Is building a new Saddle really so much to ask, considering everything both sides have lost?
  173. [15/11/2014 23:27:07] Frog/PIBH: The way I see it, if something constructive can come from this then we should embrace that possibility. Being able to co-operate and find benefit in peace is an important step.
  174. [15/11/2014 23:31:02] Frog/PIBH: Vinz has raised a point and made a request. I don't think it's unreasonable and would like you to seriously consider what compromise you're willing to make.
  175. [15/11/2014 23:32:14] Cloud Kicker: Well, what you like instead of a nation Vinz?
  176. [15/11/2014 23:35:46] _ Vinz _: only other thing i can think of are bits or copper, both things the war has drained out of my stockpiles. But i am not sure about the amount yet. It should be roughly aquivalent to the nation i was demanding
  177. [15/11/2014 23:37:13] _ Vinz _: copper is very important to bulld up any nation so it can support my empire again. Loosing that fully build burrozil (yes PIBH, it was a burro, but thats not that important) hurt my sugar balance
  178. [15/11/2014 23:49:26] Cloud Kicker: Hows this? I'll give you Leva Bay, only if Myrami agrees to give me Dirtopia. Otherwise I'll give you 50k copper and 2 billion bits.
  179. [15/11/2014 23:50:44] Cloud Kicker: Oh yes, and it has to still have all of it's statues.
  180. [15/11/2014 23:51:52] _ Vinz _: Are you serious? Leva Bay and Dirtopia are totally not comparable. Dirtopia has 100 status, thats 2 million copper. Leva bay hasnt even one. All the prodctuion buildings we can set up ourselves
  181. [15/11/2014 23:52:16] _ Vinz _: Also i asked for an burrozil, as the nation i lost was a burrozil nation
  182. [15/11/2014 23:52:32] Cloud Kicker: Even better.
  183. [15/11/2014 23:52:38] Cloud Kicker: Cloud 9 for Dirtopia.
  184. [15/11/2014 23:53:36] _ Vinz _: Its still a totally bad deal. We would be retarded if we would accept such a deal. Myra will never accept it
  185. [15/11/2014 23:53:56] _ Vinz _: Are you really wishing for peace or is this a show you use to mock us?
  186. [15/11/2014 23:54:21] Cloud Kicker: I don't want peace if it means just giving you stuff.
  187. [15/11/2014 23:54:37] Cloud Kicker: We've put twice as much into this as you guys have.
  188. [15/11/2014 23:59:26] _ Vinz _: We never asked you to attack us. You should have known that being the attacker is expensive.
  189. [16/11/2014 00:00:12] Cloud Kicker: Yeah I know that but like you guys keep bringing up, we started it so why should we want to stop?
  190. [16/11/2014 00:00:31] Cloud Kicker: I want you to lose at least something other than stockpiles.
  191. [16/11/2014 00:01:13] Cloud Kicker: You already lost a nation and now it's Myrami's turn.
  192. [16/11/2014 00:01:56] _ Vinz _: So that is all what you want? See other people suffer, because you suffered?
  193. [16/11/2014 00:02:49] Cloud Kicker: No, I want you two to suffer because you attack me for no reason.
  194. [16/11/2014 00:03:13] Cloud Kicker: I wanted to ascend and leave.
  195. [16/11/2014 00:03:43] _ Vinz _: I thought we made clear at the begining of the negotiations that past is past? Or did i misunderstand PIBH
  196. [16/11/2014 00:04:11] _ Vinz _: So as we wanted to, both sides never told whate they were up to
  197. [16/11/2014 00:04:20 | Edited 00:04:28] Cloud Kicker: I'm more than happy for you guys to ascend, but you said you can't do that right now.
  198. [16/11/2014 00:04:23 | Edited 00:05:52] _ Vinz _: But you seem to keep pressing on war
  199. [16/11/2014 00:08:53] Cloud Kicker: You still have all the DNA, right?
  200. [16/11/2014 00:09:44 | Edited 00:11:42] _ Vinz _: As i told Sephi, i got most of it, but missing some Prze stuff that is hard to get
  201. [16/11/2014 00:10:03] _ Vinz _: Had a really expensive deal coming at me, but hat to cancel it to be able to pay my defenders
  202. [16/11/2014 00:11:36] Cloud Kicker: If you guys had the DNA to ascend, I would be fine giving you resources and bits to do so.
  203. [16/11/2014 00:12:12] Cloud Kicker: Is it North, South, or central DNA?
  204. [16/11/2014 00:12:55] _ Vinz _: As stated earlier, we cannot guarantee when we will ascend. Its not just ressources what is keeping us here.
  205. [16/11/2014 00:14:29] _ Vinz _: Also, i dont know if i can trust you. You were quite agressive some messages ago and what you said showed that you seem to have very low motives. I dont feel save making any dealings with you
  206. [16/11/2014 00:15:43] Cloud Kicker: As long as you two are in the game, yes I want you to suffer some loses, but if you want to ascend, get out of the game, I see no reason to stop you.
  207. [16/11/2014 00:16:31] Cloud Kicker: I know how frustrating it can be for someone to throw a monkey wrench into your plans.
  208. [16/11/2014 00:26:15] Frog/PIBH: Cloud, you are being unreasonable. Nobody should suffer in this game just for playing it.
  209. [16/11/2014 00:28:17 | Edited 00:28:24] Frog/PIBH: However, Vinz, 50k copper and two billion bits is an eminently suitable price for a nation. You might even consider it generous.
  210. [16/11/2014 00:29:24] _ Vinz _: i never said anything against that offer, i just felt insulted when he pressed to exchange dirtopia for a nation that is less wothy
  211. [16/11/2014 00:30:28] _ Vinz _: and iam not even the nation owner, i dont know how myra will feel when he reads that. Thats not something you propose when you want to achieve piece
  212. [16/11/2014 00:32:24] Frog/PIBH: Then you do not have to accept that offer. As it stands, Cloud is offering 50k copper and two billion as reparations for leading this war. Can you accept that?
  213. [16/11/2014 00:33:43] _ Vinz _: i think i could agree to that
  214. [16/11/2014 00:35:13] Frog/PIBH: Very well. Cloud, it sounds as though you're still bearing some grudges, would you like to discuss those?
  215. [16/11/2014 00:38:05] Cloud Kicker: Not right now.
  216. [16/11/2014 00:38:14] Cloud Kicker: I'm going to be out for the next few hours.
  217. [16/11/2014 00:39:15] Frog/PIBH: You got it. Mull it over for a while, we can continue at our own pace.
  218. [16/11/2014 00:51:47] _ Vinz _: I think i go to bed soon, its late over here
  219. [17/11/2014 00:13:10] _ Vinz _: are you two online to proceed where we left off?
  220. [17/11/2014 00:22:01] Frog/PIBH: I'm around. Don't know for how much longer really.
  221. [17/11/2014 00:22:31] _ Vinz _: ok, if its too late for you or CK isnt around, we can do that tomorrow
  222. [17/11/2014 00:22:55] Frog/PIBH: Mm. An entire day of waiting does seem a little excessive, though.
  223. [17/11/2014 00:23:49] _ Vinz _: with tomorrow i mean after i have slept XD
  224. [17/11/2014 00:24:30] Frog/PIBH: In twenty minutes we will have waited an entire day.
  225. [17/11/2014 00:25:54] _ Vinz _: but what i can tell you know is that myrami is interested in peace and he said i can make the negotiations for him, so we dont have to wait for him to get to a pc with skype. When i agree, he will agree too, though he has some demands he want to see fullfilled
  226. [17/11/2014 00:26:42] _ Vinz _: seems liek he will not be on skype for some days
  227. [17/11/2014 00:26:59] Frog/PIBH: As far as I know the only demand he's made is for Cloud to apologise for initiating this conflict, which he - unless i'm mistaken - has already agreed to do, along with paying reparations.
  228. [17/11/2014 00:27:26] Frog/PIBH: Has Myrami said anything more to you on the subject of concessions he wants made?
  229. [17/11/2014 00:28:53] _ Vinz _: Myra asked me to get him some reparations too. About concessions, he said nothing to me.
  230. [17/11/2014 00:30:05] _ Vinz _: We have to see what CK demands from him concession wise, if it is reasonalbe i can surely get him to agree on this
  231. [17/11/2014 00:30:23] Frog/PIBH: Do you object to sharing what we've already negotiated with Myrami, or will that be sufficient?
  232. [17/11/2014 00:31:32] Frog/PIBH: I had intended for these negotiations to be comprehensive and lay matters to rest. Adding more conditions at a later date for the same offence is not something I want to consider.
  233. [17/11/2014 00:32:00] _ Vinz _: Could you please use some more simple language, english is not my first language and its a bit lite ^^
  234. [17/11/2014 00:34:04] Frog/PIBH: We already agreed for Cloud to pay you and Myrami for starting the war. You can divide that between you however you like.
  235. [17/11/2014 00:34:27] _ Vinz _: Ahhh
  236. [17/11/2014 00:34:41] _ Vinz _: so the 2 billion and the 50k copper was meant for both of us
  237. [17/11/2014 00:34:57] _ Vinz _: i dindt get that yesterday, i thought it was just for me and my lost nation
  238. [17/11/2014 00:37:50] _ Vinz _: if this amount is to be splitted between us two, its not anymore that agreeable as it sounded yesterday. If CK could add 1 billion and 50k copper for myrami, hei will accept without hesitation and we can get this peace contract done. If CK does not, we maybe have to talk little more
  239. [17/11/2014 00:38:10] Frog/PIBH: I had thought I made the situation clear.
  240. [17/11/2014 00:38:43] Frog/PIBH: Cloud is offering 50k copper and two billion as reparations for leading this war. Can you accept that?[16 November 2014 00:33] _ Vinz _:
  241.  
  242. <<< i think i could agree to thatIs there another way to interpret this?
  243. [17/11/2014 00:39:57] _ Vinz _: it never explicitly said it was for both of us. I thought were just discussing things regarding me yesterday and wait for the things regarding myra until he has a chance to speak up
  244. [17/11/2014 00:40:28 | Edited 00:40:39] _ Vinz _: i am sorry when i misinterpretet it all
  245. [17/11/2014 00:43:54] Frog/PIBH: Perhaps things are clearer now, then. I brought you two together as leaders to negotiate a deal for your respective sides.
  246. [17/11/2014 00:45:09] _ Vinz _: ok, lets make that easy. We stay on that 2 billion and 50k copper reparations we split up between us, and we just add the apology from CK for starting the war on both of us, and we can get this done from our side
  247. [17/11/2014 00:45:49] Frog/PIBH: That doesn't seem to really change the deal as I see it, so that's reasonable. Cloud?
  248. [17/11/2014 00:46:04] _ Vinz _: myra will agree, and if i have to pay his demands out of my own pockets
  249. [17/11/2014 00:46:42] Cloud Kicker: I'm here.
  250. [17/11/2014 00:48:50] Cloud Kicker: That works for me.
  251. [17/11/2014 00:51:49] Frog/PIBH: Do you have your thoughts together on this yet, Cloud? Do you want to raise anything else?
  252. [17/11/2014 00:53:17] Cloud Kicker: No.
  253. [17/11/2014 00:56:49] Cloud Kicker: Although, from the looks of it, it doesn't seem like Myrami wants peace.
  254. [17/11/2014 00:59:13] Frog/PIBH: I've been told he will abide by Vinz' decision. If he doesn't, then that will count as a violation.
  255. [17/11/2014 00:59:51] Cloud Kicker: https://mlpchan.net/clop/res/101.html#5315
  256. [17/11/2014 01:00:03] Cloud Kicker: And they wonder why I don't like them.
  257. [17/11/2014 01:01:05 | Edited 01:01:13] Frog/PIBH: It does seem rather inflammatory, Vinz. Do you have anything to say about that?
  258. [17/11/2014 01:04:08] _ Vinz _: What should i say, not his best move. He likes to mock other people just like most chan people... at least he doenst post as anon.
  259. You cannot expect him to love CK out of nothing, but he will hold to any peace contracts we make. Seems like we have to work on our relations after peace is established
  260. [17/11/2014 01:07:31] Frog/PIBH: It was not my intent just to arrange a temporary ceasefire, but to draw a line under the disagreements of the past and make a full accounting of everything you folks have ever done to one another in an attempt to reach a lasting understanding.
  261. [17/11/2014 01:09:23] Frog/PIBH: If there are still things to address, if you think that Myrami will not be able to let the past lie after the agreement we have so far then we have a problem.
  262. [17/11/2014 01:12:30 | Edited 01:12:41] Cloud Kicker: Well, I think I've layed out the problem I have with them.
  263. [17/11/2014 01:13:45] Frog/PIBH: These talks can only benefit from you being as clear as possible.
  264. [17/11/2014 01:15:04] Frog/PIBH: Be forthright and honest about the issues you have, and we can negotiate. If you will only allude to something, then we can't make a clear and honest accounting for it because we don't have the specific details.
  265. [17/11/2014 01:17:16] Cloud Kicker: I don't like how he attacks players and provokes people knowing that noone is going to do anything because he's one of the strongest players.
  266. [17/11/2014 01:18:05] Cloud Kicker: I don't like how they have brought up killing more than once.
  267. [17/11/2014 01:18:28] Cloud Kicker: He tried to "help" me because they killed me.
  268. [17/11/2014 01:18:49] Cloud Kicker: He didn't sound very sorry either, he tried taking others nations to give to me.
  269. [17/11/2014 01:18:52] Frog/PIBH: Then what would you ask from him? An agreement not to attack people?
  270. [17/11/2014 01:19:07] Cloud Kicker: That would be nice, yes.
  271. [17/11/2014 01:20:50] Cloud Kicker: I would be fine if he couldn't attack anyone unless attack first, the problem though is how are we going to enforce that?
  272. [17/11/2014 01:21:10] Frog/PIBH: Vinz, you say Myrami will abide by a peace, and he mentioned to me when I sent him a message about these talks that he had been intending to start scaling back his activity. How long do you think he would be happy to accept the condition to attack no foreign nation, even with activity checkers?
  273. [17/11/2014 01:22:43] _ Vinz _: dont know, its a very big demand from CK, ripping him of his right to do any war. What if there is need for him to attack someone because that player growed to power and is a even bigger bully than myra?
  274. [17/11/2014 01:23:14] Frog/PIBH: We can add a condition that accounts for that circumstance.
  275. [17/11/2014 01:23:22] Cloud Kicker: Then we'll ask for his help.
  276. [17/11/2014 01:24:05] _ Vinz _: also, how does preventing him from attacking people prevent him from mocking people? He can still defend, so people being offended by him still are not able to silence or hurt him. I think there is flaw in CKs logic
  277. [17/11/2014 01:25:12] Cloud Kicker: No one can shut up the anons either.
  278. [17/11/2014 01:25:42] Frog/PIBH: People will always mock and be mocked on the /CLOP/ board. There isn't anything to be done about that.
  279. [17/11/2014 01:25:50] _ Vinz _: also, myra never attacked people because they spoke bad of him or anything, he had reasons for his actions, something to gain or to achieve, even you dont like those reasons
  280. [17/11/2014 01:26:08] Frog/PIBH: We can, however, attempt to moderate his aggressive tendencies.
  281. [17/11/2014 01:26:50 | Edited 01:26:55] _ Vinz _: yes, but i think forbidding him any military action outside his own empire is a bit harsh
  282. [17/11/2014 01:27:25] Cloud Kicker: Why?
  283. [17/11/2014 01:27:46] _ Vinz _: how woul you feel if someone locks you of a part of the game?
  284. [17/11/2014 01:28:07] Cloud Kicker: I don't attack unless they player has something I want or I dislike them.
  285. [17/11/2014 01:28:27] _ Vinz _: [17 November 2014 01:28] Cloud Kicker:
  286.  
  287. <<< I don't attack unless they player has something I want or I dislike them.so, exact the same thing myra does
  288. [17/11/2014 01:28:39] _ Vinz _: by your logic, you should also be locked out from war
  289. [17/11/2014 01:28:49] Cloud Kicker: Okay.
  290. [17/11/2014 01:28:59] Frog/PIBH: Then how about this:
  291. [17/11/2014 01:29:00] Cloud Kicker: I would be fine with that.
  292. [17/11/2014 01:30:34] Frog/PIBH: "Neither Cloud Kicker or Myrami will, for a period of time to be determined, attack any foreign nation with a force of any size unless they both agree, together, that such an action is justified. This includes so-called "activity checkers," though a verified nation purchase would still be valid."
  293. [17/11/2014 01:31:10] Cloud Kicker: I'm fine with that.
  294. [17/11/2014 01:31:21] Cloud Kicker: As for time, how about until ascention?
  295. [17/11/2014 01:31:35] Frog/PIBH: Until either of you ascend?
  296. [17/11/2014 01:31:43] Cloud Kicker: No.
  297. [17/11/2014 01:32:16] Cloud Kicker: If only one ascends, they can attack others, but the other is still bound.
  298. [17/11/2014 01:32:24] _ Vinz _: Problem is, that wont stop any of them two to contribute to a war by providing ressources and money
  299. [17/11/2014 01:33:08] Cloud Kicker: I have a feeling that would turn out like the NLR vs. SE war. q:
  300. [17/11/2014 01:33:10 | Edited 01:33:45] _ Vinz _: also, what can they do when other players, knowing of this contract, attack them beecause they know they are not allowed to fight back. Or is retalition not covered by that agreement?
  301. [17/11/2014 01:33:45] Frog/PIBH: I would have thought that in that situation, a retaliation would be agreed upon as reasonable.
  302. [17/11/2014 01:36:26] _ Vinz _: I am not cinvied this rule changes anything, but if yu both feel better with it, i think this ok, i agree for both myra and me
  303. [17/11/2014 01:36:46] _ Vinz _: So, what do we have so far?
  304. [17/11/2014 01:40:11] Frog/PIBH: Vinz and Myra will state their intent to ascend some day.
  305. Myrami will make up with Polandball over their clash over nation-builders.
  306. Cloud Kicker will apologise for inciting this war and pay two billion bits and fifty thousand copper as reparations.
  307. Cloud Kicker and Myrami will mutually agree not to attack any other player until after they have "reset" their empires via ascension, unless they both agree an attack is warranted.
  308. [17/11/2014 01:42:04] Frog/PIBH: I think that's everything we've agreed upon. Is there anything else we've missed?
  309. [17/11/2014 01:42:44 | Edited 01:42:59] _ Vinz _: No, seems correct. Will that be made public on the board? Including the apology and stuff?
  310. [17/11/2014 01:43:07] Frog/PIBH: I should say so. Would either of you object to these logs being posted?
  311. [17/11/2014 01:43:24] _ Vinz _: No objection
  312. [17/11/2014 01:43:27] _ Vinz _: one last thing
  313. [17/11/2014 01:43:41] Cloud Kicker: No.
  314. [17/11/2014 01:44:07] _ Vinz _: [17 November 2014 01:40] Frogspawned:
  315.  
  316. <<< Myrami will make up with Polandball over their clash over nation-builders.How do you think this should be done? Just exchanging apologies or making some agreement or anything?
  317. [17/11/2014 01:44:36 | Edited 01:44:45] _ Vinz _: Just want to know how this point should be executed
  318. [17/11/2014 01:45:23] Frog/PIBH: I think an apology would be a good way to see it done. Polandball seems a reasonable person, and since no attack ever went ahead* asking anything more is a little dubious.
  319. [17/11/2014 01:45:28] Frog/PIBH: *Right?
  320. [17/11/2014 01:46:48] _ Vinz _: [17 November 2014 01:45] Frogspawned:
  321.  
  322. <<< *Right?right, myra never sent an attack poland regarding this matter, as far as i know
  323. [17/11/2014 01:48:20] Frog/PIBH: So a simple apology seems reasonable to smooth over any ill-feeling. Good.
  324. [17/11/2014 01:50:44] Frog/PIBH: Unless i'm mistaken, then, that would seem to be the preliminary negotiations taken care of. Since you say, also, that Myra will accept your say on the matter, Vinz, that just leaves NASA to agree to the conditions before we can move on and talk about how exactly to defuse the war itself.
  325. [17/11/2014 01:52:01] _ Vinz _: ok
  326. [17/11/2014 22:18:48] Cloud Kicker: So, poland says he need some time to think about accepting the current agreement, but everyone else is fine with the conditions set.
  327. [18/11/2014 18:38:54] Frog/PIBH: So i've spoken to Polandball and he's concerned a little about this statement.
  328. [18/11/2014 18:38:55] Frog/PIBH: As stated earlier, we cannot guarantee when we will ascend. Its not just ressources what is keeping us here.
  329. [18/11/2014 18:40:18] Frog/PIBH: He's wondering if you might clarify the other things keeping you about.
  330. [18/11/2014 20:49:34] Cloud Kicker: So, everyone on our side has agreed to the terms.
  331. [19/11/2014 01:31:42 | Edited 01:37:41] Cloud Kicker: As for defusing the war, I think it already has been done. No one is still attacking as far as I know.
  332. [19/11/2014 09:59:22] _ Vinz _: [18 November 2014 18:40] Frogspawned:
  333.  
  334. <<< He's wondering if you might clarify the other things keeping you about.We still have some contracts to fulfill and pay some debts we made during the last conflict. When this is resolved, we can go back to work on our ascension plans.
  335. [19/11/2014 10:01:15] _ Vinz _: So i assume the peace treaty is in power now? Or are there still any formalitys left? I will make an announcement about the ascension thingy in CKs apology thread, time to whip out my cool new tripcode
  336. [19/11/2014 10:42:17] Frog/PIBH: Well, if you both are happy to consider the treaty in force, and no troops are headed to or from anybody involved in the war, it does seem like we have peace.
  337. [19/11/2014 10:45:50] _ Vinz _: as far as i know from myra, he has no incomings, me neither. So it seems fine.
  338.  
  339. Posted my ascension announcement including the reasons why it will still take a bit of time. So only things left would be the thing between poland and myra, and CK sending me the bits and copper. I'll talk with him directly about the timing, so we both switch out of opp at the sime time and then get this done.
  340. [19/11/2014 10:48:28] Frog/PIBH: As ever, i'm more than happy to act as an intermediary. I shan't pay out my incentive immediately; there's still stuff to be done - but it's all fairly minor, so shall we say... after a week from now, a week of peace, i'll transfer the funds to you both to divide as you see fit?
  341. [19/11/2014 10:48:58] _ Vinz _: Agreed
  342. [19/11/2014 10:52:39] Frog/PIBH: I trust you've let Myra know to make placatory overtures to Polandball?
  343. [19/11/2014 10:53:14] _ Vinz _: i send him a quote of the message were you summarized the contents of the contract
  344. [19/11/2014 10:53:26] _ Vinz _: so he should know, but i can remind him of that just in case
  345. [19/11/2014 10:54:18 | Edited 10:55:11] Frog/PIBH: It's all good, i'm just running my eye over the apology thread and he doesn't seem to be approaching the situation with very much dignity.
  346. [19/11/2014 10:56:27] _ Vinz _: Barking is all he has left now, as the treaty pulled him the teeth
  347. [19/11/2014 10:57:25] _ Vinz _: And ican tell you that he takes that agreements serious
  348. [19/11/2014 14:23:42] _ Vinz _: http://puu.sh/cX7jr/530f588fb4.png
  349. [19/11/2014 14:24:05] _ Vinz _: CK held his promise
  350. [27/11/2014 09:11:19] _ Vinz _: [19 November 2014 10:48] Frogspawned:
  351.  
  352. <<< As ever, i'm more than happy to act as an intermediary. I shan't pay out my incentive immediately; there's still stuff to be done - but it's all fairly minor, so shall we say... after a week from now, a week of peace, i'll transfer the funds to you both to divide as you see fit?Week is over PIBH, what about the mones for my pones?
  353. [27/11/2014 10:42:49] Frog/PIBH: Yeah I was going to bring that up. You're oppression.
  354. [27/11/2014 10:44:13] Frog/PIBH: But assuming there have been no more skirmishes and that issue can be easily dealt with, any time you're ready.
  355. [27/11/2014 10:53:29] _ Vinz _: Ok, I would be ready to go out of oppression right after the tick
  356. [27/11/2014 11:20:26] _ Vinz _: O am out of oppression, send the deal to mares
  357. [27/11/2014 11:26:41] Frog/PIBH: You both have a deal. Accept it when you will, and divide it as you see fit.
  358. [27/11/2014 11:27:05] _ Vinz _: Ok
  359. [27/11/2014 11:27:49] _ Vinz _: Got it. And thank you very much
  360. [27/11/2014 11:29:44] Frog/PIBH: Not a problem. I could easily have spent 50b if I was seriously drawn into this war, perhaps much more, depending on how long it drew itself out.
  361. [27/11/2014 11:30:01] Frog/PIBH: I won't say "this way, everyone wins," but I will say everyone loses a lot less.
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