stoopkid> in swipl are there best practices regarding the use of atoms vs. double-quoted strings?
1:40 PM for representation of text data
1:40 PM let's say.. not like paragraphs of text but just like "My Column Header" or some such
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2:09 PM
<dmiles> ... atoms are supposed to be used when the strings mean something important to your program
2:09 PM "My Column Header" means more to the user
2:11 PM 'Column Header ID 666'  though would be an atom
2:12 PM teh atom in that case will use memory in general
2:12 PM as it becomes a global enum
2:13 PM vs the string is always allocated as least globally as poissble

...

<stoopkid> dmiles: hrmm... https://www.swi-prolog.org/pldoc/man?section=ext-dquotes-motivation
2:24 PM "Representing text using atoms is often considered inadequate for several reasons: 1) It hides the conceptual difference between text and program symbols. Where content of text often matters because it is used in I/O, program symbols are merely identifiers that match with the same symbol elsewhere. Program symbols can often be consistently replaced, for example to obfuscate or compact a program. "
2:25 PM from this i'm gathering that if you want the data to represent that specific piece of text, as opposed to some arbitrary identifier that could hypothetically be replaced w/ a different identifier, then it should be a string
2:27 PM
<dmiles> ... identifiers are intended to be unique ID?
2:28 PM (if so, then i would make them go into the global table.. like i did with 'Column Header ID 666')
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2:29 PM
<stoopkid> well, let's say you're actually writing that column to output w/ the header included, do we want the header to literally say exactly "Column Header ID 666" or do we not care what it says?
2:30 PM
<dmiles> ... "Program symbols can often be consistently replaced,"   the compiled program would not need the text of the information
2:30 PM only that it wasn tthe same as 'Column Header ID 667'
2:31 PM those atoms can be replaced by 'foo1'  and 'foo2' and hte program will still operate
2:31 PM if i want to out those.. tha tis a differnt story
2:32 PM to output those, i might still use an atom in this case because i can output atoms.. i just dont want too arbitaryly rename them
2:33 PM but *only* wouild keep it as an atom if my program really understood them
2:33 PM not "but" .. "and" there
2:34 PM
<stoopkid> so how would you indicate to an obfuscator which atoms can be substituted and which ones represent exact text and thus can't be substituted?
2:35 PM
<dmiles> ... i have a private way i do that which i am suire other programers would find annyying i actual make my atoms appear like '"Dont obfusicate me"'
2:35 PM '"text"'
2:35 PM
<stoopkid> ic
2:36 PM
<dmiles> ... it also makes me remember i am outputing it
2:36 PM and since it is aukward to type uit reminds me of the debt created
2:37 PM so when to use strings?  When i am receivned new data from the outside world.. or creating it programmatically
2:38 PM when trying to protected the limited resources of the global dictionary
2:39 PM " They are stored in a shared table. Volatile strings represented as atoms come at a significant price due to the required cooperation between threads for creating atoms. Reclaiming temporary atoms using Atom garbage collection is a costly process that requires significant synchronisation."
2:40 PM
<stoopkid> so do you have some custom code or w/e to manipulate atoms that contain double-quotes like that?
2:40 PM
<dmiles> ... yes.. that code removes the quotes from printing
2:41 PM
<stoopkid> well, but also for like append, substring, etc..
2:41 PM sorry, concat*, substring, etc..
2:41 PM seems you'd have to wrap every string manipulation predicate in something that deals w/ the double-quotes
2:41 PM
<dmiles> ... if i am performing thos operates than i should be using a string datatype
2:42 PM
<stoopkid> hrm
2:42 PM
<dmiles> ... but i do that that code .. i just promise to never use it :P
2:42 PM
<stoopkid> idk, swipl does provide atomic_list_concat and such after all
2:42 PM
<dmiles> ... since it has to dewrap.. operate.. rewrap
2:43 PM atomic_list_concat btw operates on strings
2:43 PM ?- atomic_list_concat(List,' ',"I was a string").
2:43 PM ?- atomic_list_concat(List,' ',"I was a string")
2:43 PM
<yesbot> anonymous 'List'=['I',was,a,string]
2:44 PM
<stoopkid> that's a list of atoms though right?
2:44 PM
<dmiles> ... yes
2:44 PM ?- atomic_list_concat(['I',was,a,string],' ',NowIHohhingRam)
2:44 PM
<yesbot> anonymous 'NowIHohhingRam'='I was a string'
2:45 PM
<stoopkid> so swipl seems to assume that users would indeed be doing these kind of string manipulations directly on atoms
2:45 PM
<dmiles> ... ?- atomic_string_concat(['I','have','already','been','GCed'],' ',X)
2:45 PM
<yesbot> anonymous procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM procedure `prolog_eval:atomic_string_concat(A,B,C)' does not exist
2:45 PM 2 + 2 = 5.
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2:47 PM
<stoopkid> atom_concat, atomic_list_concat, sub_atom, sub_atom_icasechk, ...
2:47 PM
<dmiles> ... well now it is frowned upon.. but lots of code still does that
2:47 PM
<stoopkid> ic
2:49 PM
<dmiles> ... sub_atom_* is mostly for when you are needidng to created and decompose new global identifiers